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Serious Problems With USB and Ethernet On the Raspberry Pi
First time accepted submitter rephlex writes "The USB controller used in the Broadcom BCM2835 (which is the SoC the Raspberry Pi uses) has buggy drivers which have been causing problems for many of its users. In addition to this, the Pi can only supply an unusually low amount of current to its USB devices, just 140 mA approximately, and using a powered hub to sidestep this limit exacerbates the issues caused by the USB drivers. Even Ethernet is affected as the Ethernet controller used on the Raspberry Pi is connected to the SoC via USB. This has resulted in packet loss and even total loss of network connectivity in certain situations. Attempts have been made in the past to fix the buggy USB drivers as there are other devices which use this problematic controller. None of these attempts seem to have achieved very much."
A buggy driver (which can be fixed) is hardly a "serious problem" - give it time, distros and drivers are still progressing on the RasPi
Posted from my Raspberry Pi...
this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice
Though hast profaned the name of the HOLY PI with thine blasphemous use of facts! We cast thee into the deepest pits of Hell amongst the Beagle Board and Panda Board demons!
All praised be THE PI!
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
If you place a 1 ohm resistor in parallel with F1 and F2, you can get the voltage drop and current higher - fixing a lot of the issues with the USB.
The data sheet (in particular p. 203-ish) talks about the workarounds required to work around PHY bugs and other USB hardware. Doesn't look particularly complex.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
you get what you pay for...in this case, a $35 tiny little board not designed by a company with QA capabilities... Big surprise it has problems...not.
It's a hacker tool - so hack it until it works.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Yes, yes I know everyone's just *in love* with their Raspberries. But seriously if you want a power tool, cough up the extra bucks and get a BeagleBone.
I got the Raspberry Pi while ago and this is the first time I am hearing of this issue. Of course, that is only because I haven't encountered it. So far I am using it extensively on my network without problems and it is even handling the load I throw at it quite gracefully.
It is a home VPN, DNS, Backup, File and Print server. On top of this, it is even the endpoint for my IPv6 tunnel and it runs a routing advertisement daemon to hand out v6 addresses on the network. So far it handles the v6 network load without any slowdown from my old machine that took care of this. I even threw in a USB stick to talk to 6LoWPAN devices I use at home and it works flawlessly with that too. So obviously both my USBs and the Ethernet are used up.
All this for a $35 computer that eats up a whole lot lesser energy than my old solution. Even if I had to solder a resistor to fix a problem that I haven't had, I am not sure what can beat this.
I'm still confused as to what the appeal of the Pi is.
They keep touting the damned thing as "open", yet you require binary blobs in the kernel just to get it to boot. The hardware is only "hacker friendly" so long as you're using USB based devices or something that sticks off the GPIO ports, the hardware itself (especially the SoC they're using) is hardly hacker friendly because the entire thing is a proprietary solution that requires proprietary drivers to run.
So can someone please tell me why this platform should be considered "open" at all? It seems to go against everything Linux strives towards. I could see a nice x86 based SoC with a S3 VGA adapter being "open"- all the hardware is well understood and open source drivers exist for everything. The Pi seems to be the exact opposite of that though.
You can fix the 140 mA issue with a little solder and two small pieces of wire to bridge the polyfuses. A little google foo can give you the power. If my inept soldering skills can get me through then almost anyone should be able to do the same. The only thing to be mindful of is voltage dips if you plug in high power devices after you're already up and running. And even then there are further mods you can do to prevent that if you're so inclined. Also the buggy driver issues have been fixed for awhile, even in Fedora17 which I think was lagging a bit behind. It is a learning device - be daring and learn a little ;)
I've had two Raspberry Pi's running side-by-side since June and I did initially experience 'network choke' as described but it was from improperly powering my Pi's. I was using a 5v microUSB adapter but with too low of an amp draw. Pay particular attention to what you're using as a power source would be my first bit of advice.
My second bit is a bit of a rip FTFA. The quote "As I said, the Pi is currently being worked over by a crowd of skilled techno-people" is a bit of a stretch. I'd say maybe20% of Pi users actually have their shit together with enough well-rounded-ness of hardware/EE/development in their background to be productive with the Pi. The other 80% are just trying to use this device as a $35 desktop replacement who want to try and hook up 4 1TB SATA devices to it, followed a long with a board load of "pamper-me" forum posts that will make a self-respective real "geek" nauseated.
Issues like this are seen ALL the time in the 'real hardware engineering world', and they are worked out. Let's not be so quick to judge this device all the time, and see the Pi for what it is: A very easy-to-work-with low cost ARM platform that far beats out the overheard of working with any SBC or emebedded hardware platform that would need JTAG, flash map, kernel/bootloader support to get going ...on your own.
I bought two Raspberry Pi(es) to use as audio servers and have been disappointed by the sound quality. The on-board audio out's DSP has limited bandwidth so sound is down-sampled to 11 bits. Scratchy. It's not advertised so that was a let-down.
Using a USB AUDIO dongle is no-go either, because of the crappy USB drivers. Stutters non-stop. Here are oscilloscope grabs of two music samples and a 1Khz tone: http://imgur.com/a/rVR99 The flat parts shouldn't be there. The only way to get good sound now is to use rather expensive USB soundboards or the HDMI output, but extracting line-level audio signals from that isn't a simple or cheap proposition.
The power design should be re-thought. If you power your Pi with exactly 5 volts, the voltage drop in the polyfuses causes early failures if you connect peripherals that have medium current demands. If you're lucky your power adapter might supply a bit more than 5 volts (5.25 is nice) and you might not experience too many problems. Me, I've soldered supply wires to test points T1(vcc) and T2(gnd) and bypassed the fuses completely.
I hope they come up with another revision, add a Low-drop-out regulator (+$2) and figure out the USB naggies.
Until then, caveat emptor.
I have LESS problems with USB (incl kbd/mse) on Raspberry Pi using RISCOS than Linux... (also the RPi is overclocked to 800Mhz while on RISCOS)
I am the submitter of this story. I posted as "lostintime" on the Raspberry Pi forums before I was banned for the post I made in this thread: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=15320
The power supply issues the Raspberry Pi has are mostly a red herring. The Pi is certainly unusually sensitive to power and can only supply a stupidly low amount of current to USB devices no matter what power supply is used, but these issues have been used as a catch-all to explain away every problem people have been having with USB and Ethernet on the Pi. This has obscured the more pressing issue of buggy drivers which I believe are the root cause of the majority of problems Pi users have been having.
Broadcom does not publish any information needed to write drivers for their crap, that's why.
They do not develop a lot of the things they churn out, but instead go buy up IP cores and
cobble those together to make their products, the cheaper the better. That's another reason
they can't afford to publish anything out in public without a NDA. Broadcom spends money
on marketing, sales, PR and legal and they wouldn't be anywhere without it.
When I first heard about the Raspberries for $25-35 I wanted one. Then I clicked on the specs,
saw it was Broadcom and that was the end of that. I'm happy to shell out $75-$100 bucks for
something that actually works and is documented.
All the comments I saw when I briefly scanned the links in the article reference power issues and similar. Another huge problem is that the USB controller in the BCM2835 itself is pretty seriously deficient; it offloads a ton of work that's usually done in HW to SW instead, requiring the CPU to be able to handle interrupts at up to 8KHz, the USB frame rate. Apparently, dropping one of those will then cause issues rather than just delaying transfers. Writing good SW for this HW will be extremely hard.
no usb means I can't use the device.
mine just came today, fwiw; from MCM.
my use-case is as a webserver to an arduino audio control system. the arduino does the realtime control of volume and other preamp-like things. the linux box contains the ip-stack, webserver and a serial port. oh wait, no serial port! that's what usb is for (for one), to get me usb/serial or usb/ttl.
I also want to play music and I have a UAC2 usb 'dac' or spdif box and without usb, I have no digital audio. hdmi is not what I need/want, I want spdif and the 'usb audio widget' is one way to get 24/192k bit perfect audio from this.
usb is VERY useful. no usb means I can't consider it for anything, anymore.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
The VIA board, at $179, is simply not in the same class. It's not an alternative.
It's for completely different projects.
The USB driver may not be fixable, the jury is still out on this one. There are three key problems:
1) Documentation on the Broadcom USB controller is proprietary and is not made openly available by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
2) The USB core for the Broadcom SoC was bought from a 3rd party, and we are told that not even Broadcom has full documentation, nor understands the driver.
3) The Foundation has discovered that the controller and its driver expect realtime response from the ARM core, and if Linux's non-realtime scheduling doesn't respond in 1 ms, a split transaction USB event can be dropped. Not surprisingly, this occurs regularly and produces lost mouse clicks, stuck keyboard keys, etc..
That's a pretty nasty combination of problems, and it means that assuming that it's fixable may not be a safe prediction. We'll have to wait and see.
For the time being though, USB and networking (which is implemented over USB) have a large catalogue of issues and incompatibilities. All boards have this inherent problem but YMMV on whether the issues bite you, as it depends on exactly what devices you have connnected and what you're doing with the board.
In addition to the above faults, the community discovered a PCB track layout error on the board which causes a proportion of the USB chips to overheat owing to an incorrect connection. It doesn't appear to be critical but wastes power and the heat may shorten board or device lifetime.
Relations are very tense on the forum, and the Foundation has banned people who express their concern about the faults.
Once you have UART, it's easy to get 'real serial' through a MAX3232 chip. Unfortunately, those are expensive because 'real serial' runs at 13 volts, so it needs to boost it up from the 3v/5v supply. Keeping the cost down means that there was no 'real serial' included.
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
Why would they connect the Ethernet controller over USB. From what I understand, USB has a fair bit of CPU overhead, and the Raspberry Pi has a limited CPU.