Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Is the Rise of Skeuomorphic User Interfaces a Problem?
An anonymous reader writes "The evolution of user interface design in software is a long one, and has historically tracked the capabilities of computers of the time. Early computers used batch processing which, is mostly unheard of today, and consequently had minimal human interaction. The late 60s saw the introduction of command line interfaces, which remain popular to this day, mostly with technical users. Arguably, what propelled computer use to what it is today is the introduction of the ubiquitous graphical user interface. Although graphical interfaces have evolved, in principle they have remained largely unchanged. The resurgence of Apple saw the rise of skeuomorphic graphical user interfaces, which are now starting to appear on Linux. Are skeuomorphic designs making technology accessible to the masses, or is it simply a case of an unwillingness to innovate and move forward?"
Would it fucking kill you to define a largely unfamiliar term in the goddamned article summary? Jesus christ. Fuck.
Specifically in the case of Linux, does the presence of skeuomorphic UIs in some applications really matter if the user decides "hey this sucks" and rips it out at the roots and installs something more to their liking?
I don't think any evidence has been provided that shows such UI designs are better than a well laid out traditional UI, but people will try whatever they can. So long as it isn't rammed down my throat, that's fine.
I guess one could/should expand that to "various devices always in some way connected with warfare, police espionage or distracting entertainment".
and I cannot find the little floppy disk icon to save the item. Where'd it go?
Vision with execution is hallucination.
>One of the earliest examples of a skeuomorphic interface was IBM Real Things.
I know you talk about the resurgence, but please attribute it with the first example - the INNOVATOR.
I'm tired of hearing how Apple "invent" everything.
Obviously someone just swallowed a thesaurus and burped out "skeuomorphic".
The linked Wikipedia page describes it thus: "Many music and audio computer programs employ a plugin architecture, and some of the plugins have a skeuomorphic interface to emulate expensive, fragile or obsolete instruments and audio processors. Functional input controls like knobs, buttons, switches and sliders are all careful duplicates of the ones on the original physical device being emulated. Even elements of the original that serve no function, like handles, screws and ventilation holes are graphically reproduced."
First, I'd argue that most software doesn't emulate physical artifacts - we don't "pull" open file drawers for instance. Second, this doesn't sound like anything that's really about GUI, it's just prettying stuff up - much like the concept of "skins."
The Apple reference... oh sigh.
Three Squirrels
The mother of all demos.
Sketchpad, even earlier.
People weren't stupid, and no, space didn't drive any of the technology related to computers. It's the other way around, technology drove space. But that's another story.
I have to say I fall on the side of saying that skeuomorphic design is bad. The classic one is the latest iPhone podcast app which looks like an old reel to reel tape recorder. I mean I'm in my mid 40s, and I only saw one of these once when I was a tiny child, and even then it was obsolete.
As for the leather bound notes and address apps, I've never owned a leather notes folder and I've never owned an address book with the letters down my side. My mum had one when I was a small child, but I haven't thought about such things for ages. As these devices expand into so many countries and new cultures, I'm sure these references are going to seem even more obscure and ridiculous.
After looking up skeuomorphic and realizing that it meant current designs that reflect the original designs where the current design is cosmetic, and the original was practical I realized that this is a very stupid article.
Apple is progressively moving towards fewer and fewer button.
Windows are doing their windows 8 thing.
Ubuntu was a 1 hour try before giving up on their unity interface.
Kde is still my favourite. (It's like the Rolls Royce of UI IMHO)
Gnome is the kid who never get's used but always gets installed.
What does this have to do with maintaining cosmetic designs I have no idea. I think the guy picked a word out of a hat in order to get a link to postman deliver aps spot on the front page.
Good job...
I would hardly say there's a "rise". The mail "envelope", the attachment "paperclip", the color "palette", the directory "folder" icon, the clock represented as an "analog dial", the video "movie reel"...
No.
No.
Command lines are vastly more powerful than traditional GUIs, which are in turn more powerful than the new crop of phone/tablet interfaces.
At each stage, the interface is simplified, but at the cost of power and flexibility. As computers become little more than media consumption devices, the natural tendency is towards extremely simplified forms of user interaction.
I've been waiting years for a chance to use 'skeuomorphic' in a conversation.
This might have been a question to ask perhaps 5-10 years ago, when such things were all the rage (brushed metal, faux glass, reflections, etc.), but it seems that of late, between interfaces like Android (especially Honeycomb and later) or Microsoft's Metro, things have been taking a sharp turn away from skeuomorphism and decidedly towards an unabashedly digital styling.
"Batch processing" is not mostly unheard of. It still exists as an important component of all modern operating systems. Ever heard of cron jobs or process scheduling? Both of these require you to write code (or rather script, in the case of cron), but it's still a form of input to the OS.
After batch jobs came CLIs, which are also essential, but for other forms of user interaction where you don't want to go through the firewall that some graphical designer put in the way of you.
Mouse-and-keyboard-GUIs, such as for desktop computers, are good if you only need to perform the most common actions. The mouse combined with graphics is also an efficient way to deal with 2D representations of the system.
Touchscreen based computers appear to be good for people that barely ever bother to change the settings of the program they use. While I could never imagine myself in this category, I understand the need and I think that it's an interesting step.
The best solution is to use the right tool for the job. This could mean that you have a computer with all of these forms of input, or a selection of them that best suit your needs. An example scenario: use a tablet to see the status of your server park, a GUI to perform basic tasks such as restarting servers, a CLI when hardware needs to be fixed and use cronjobs to rotate the logs into a dedicated log server.
On topic: I have no idea what you mean with skeumorphic GUIs, but either they are a useless fad or they can work side by side to other forms of UIs. Nothing will replace anything.
Have you seen Ubuntu lately? It's basically OSX lite these days so it's not really any big surprise that they're borrowing a few more of Apple's designs.
As for the leather bound notes and address apps
I agree those are annoying. However, there is a difference between skinning and real skeuomorphic design at work here.
The Mac desktop Calendar app? Sure it looks like leather but in no way does thinking of it like any kind of traditional leather-bound thing you may have known help you figure out how to work with it.
The iPad Calendar app is better in this regard. Same leather look, only now it looks like two tall facing pages. Because it looks like pages you expect you can "turn" them - and that does work, with a drag. Then you notice as you do this that the bar at the bottom changes, so you realize you can interact with that directly and so on. There the design is really somewhat skeuomorphic in that it's helping use your understanding of how real books work to figure out some of the non-intuitive interface controls (since gestures are always invisible and hard to discover).
In the end perhaps the only area where skeuomorphic design really adds anything is in leading people to discover these otherwise hard to discover controls in a UI. But it seems like you always have to have some kind of more direct control also or else some people can and will get confused. Skeuomorphic design then seems more like a limited technique than an area that all design will move towards.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes it is a problem, and seems to be taking us backward in terms of usability. Apple is the worst for this, imo, their iPhone interface for setting an alarm is abysmal, hard to use with any accuracy, because you're sliding dials around, which have physics attached to them. So instead of being able to type in: 7, 3, 0 on a keypad, you're forced to deal with 3 different dials, pushing up & down until it gets it right. (It also stinks of 'hey, lets use multitouch for EVERYTHING).
Also, accessibility takes a hit, as you're now dealing with pictures of physical things, and all people are left with are the equivalent of ALT tags on images with image maps.
Avoid unfamiliar terms, even if you link to a page explaining them. As you can see, 90% of the discussion here is about how an unusual word was used where GUI would have served the same purpose, which not only takes away a lot of space from a discussion about the actual question, but also made me skip pretty much all of it because I didn't come here to discuss the pros and cons of showing off ones word stock but whether GUIs are troubling. But now, instead, I wrote this note, which adds about as much to the actual discussion, but might serve you as a reminder to avoid things that take away attention from the actual question you're asking.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
In order for user interfaces to be able to move away from skeuomorphic techniques one has to consider the willingness of the audience. Web design has been a great test bed for this very things. For many years using anything beyond the base set of html controls + date pickers was considered largely pointless, as businesses needed interfaces that took very little training. As the web evolved into a more entertainment oriented place, technologies like DHTML, Flash, and Javascript allowed designers to experiment with things like sliders, switches, and different types of paging. Apple capitalized on this by taking the best new controls created and built them into the iPhone, which worked so well it gave designers a much larger base set to work with.
In short, introducing stripped down UI's or new controls tend not to succeed when they are forced or simply swapped in because they are "more efficient". They are versioned in for a reason, because people need time to adapt to change.
As for "useless areas or designs" such as torn edges or leather borders, this is all about aesthetic. It's doesn't take a scientist to understand that people like things to look appealing. In the same manner a gamer loves his graphics to look as realistic as possible, so does any other user who sees imitation materials on their screen. Well designed abstract or purely digital layouts can look very nice, but they do not invoke most people's sense of value and worth. Furthering skeuomorphic techniques allows designers the license to introduce other larger changes (like new controls) with little more cushioning than some UI customization.
Where genius and insanity become confused true wisdom is found
If a "skeuomorphic" GUI is meant to resemble a physical desktop space, then I don't think it's a very good idea. The more a workspace attempts to graphically simulate a real space, the more system resources are wasted. Development time is squandered on tuning appearance rather than performance. I think both technical users and everyday users prefer a program that is simple and functional. Imagine how resource heavy OpenOffice would be if it simulated pen strokes as you typed. Yuck. Users are plenty capable of learning how to use software that don't resemble real world objects.
Didn't Samsung just do that to Apple ? Made it look familiar, like an iPhone, but underneath its a sh1t load better :-)
if
It's just design. There are going to be some instances that work really well and others that are not so great. There will always be people that complain about things that look pretty, preferring to spend their time in front of a command line.
Skeuomorphic design is just in fashion at the moment. Hardware goes through design fads too. Brushed aluminium, wood grain, gloss white, matte black, bright colours, etc.
The more they Think Different, the more they think the same.
We are living in the modern aesthetic, as defined by the Bauhaus et al back in the day.
There isn't anything inherently wrong with other aesthetics. Form should follow function, but that doesn't mean you can't embellish things a bit.
I mean, there's no reason to be a Nazi about it.
Digital stuff is totally plastic - look at something like Bombardier's Guild on the iPhone: it has a ridiculously fun steampunk look. Why not?
Is it just me, or is there a complete lack of modding up useful comments on slashdot now, and modding down trifling buffoonery? It seems slashdot has gone to the 13-year-olds. Too bad, so sad. When the most popular comments are the most intellectually void, what has slashdot become? A haven for elitist flamers. Go slashdot.
Hate to break it to you but batch processing lives on strong. Anyone worth his/her salt has written scripts to handle stuff. Take a look at Debian for example; the whole build system is a one gigantic batch processing tool that takes the submitted code packages, builds them of reach CPU architecture performing multitude of tests and packages them up and distributes the packages to repositories. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Perhaps you meant in the UI design sense "batch processing doesn't exist". It's actually quite the opposite; systems that work without UI are the ultimate expression of working. It always works, it doesn't need an UI. UX is that it just works.
Why has nobody mentioned the penultimate in skeumorphic design, Microsoft BOB?
" Are skeuomorphic designs making technology accessible to the masses, or is it simply a case of an unwillingness to innovate and move forward?""
Neither. It's a move backwards in every sense of the word (Bob is calling and want you back in the middle ages). And we can thank it to Apple (oh my, just look at their sk.m. UIs lately), since lots of people mimic them just because they are Apple.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
The only type of software I've seen where this is the norm is music software, especially VST plugins.
I guess the thought behind this is: "If you emulate the sound of a classic synthesizer, why not emulate the look-and-feel of it as well?"
Of course it is easier for someone who has actually played the physical instrument to find the correct controls, but I think it's more a question of aesthetics than usability.
The idea has carried over to instruments and effects that have no physical counterpart: If you have an analogue-sounding synth you'll get knobs and patch cables ( moog style); if it's a FM synth you'll probably see a lot of labled push-buttons (Yamaha DX7) and so on.
Electronic musicians love their gadgets and now that we don't fiddle with actual knobs and sliders anymore, we still like to be reminded of them in the UI.
Still, I don't think this represent "an unwillingness to move forward". Maybe part nostalgia and part the fact that these devices looked great and inspired you to play them.
Episode #12:
Using Proper English
Everything you needed to know about the word, "Fuck".
Enjoy!
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
it's called 'facade' versus 'functionality.'
The classic counterargument is that Courbusier advocated frill-less (and thus cheaper) "functional" towers, but himself chose to live in a replication of a medieval Italian villa.
+5 karma to those of you who get the 'Blade Runner' reference.
Someone desperately wanted to use the word "skeuomorphic" in a /. submission.
Aside from that, was there any actual content? I didn't notice any.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"...used batch processing which, is mostly unheard of today, and consequently..."
That's simply not true (and there's a comma in the wrong place). Batch processing is widely use, just ask your bank or most large organisations.
...the only option left is to draw the classic telephone silhouette in the icon.
Nobody forces you to use those interfaces, but for people new to technology it can help if they can relate certain functions to their real world analogues.
We used to do this crap in Windows in the early 90s - notebooks with rules lines and faux punched holes, folders with flaps that opened, old fashioned analogue clocks - and we stopped because it was stupid.
Korma: Good
But on a computer, you're a second level away from the actual thing. There's no ACTUAL knob to twist on a computer screen.
And an example of BADLY doing this skeuomorph are the calendars that are emulating the EXACT rolodex style calendar you can find on executive desks. Including all its weaknesses.
Can you link to a document on your rolodex calendar? No. So you can't do it on your computer one either.
eBook readers that "show" a turning page. Why? There's no page. Just go to the next page.
A podcast player that apes the radio on a Hi-Fi reciever. Therefore you can't go directly to the 8th podcast, you have to skip the first 7, just as if it were real. And it takes 20x the screen real-estate to show this brushed metal and knobbish interface.
Sometimes the real thing has limitations. And aping the real thing is becoming so close it is aping the limitations too.
How daft is that?
I've never seen the word skeuomorphic before now. Is this a new coinage to describe the disasters of Gnome 3, Unity, and Win8?
I don't think it's too much of an issue from what I've seen. Apple definitely do it the most, but it's in programs like Calendar, Contacts, and Reminders, which perform limited functions and don't require complex user interfaces. Prettying them up a bit doesn't detract from usability. If you were to say, add a traditional paint pallete to Photoshop, that would be a different matter.
The reason floppy disks suddenly became unreliable was because everyone suddenly started looking for the best deals on them. When you're shopping for the lowest cost disk on the market, you can't be surprised to get the lowest-quality disk on the market. Once I realized this, I bought a ten pack of the most expensive floppy disks on the shelf, which were only about double the cost of the cheapest. They were the last package of floppy disks I ever had to buy.
Why, on the fucking thing, do I have to go to settings, and click on brightness to get the brightness slider. Why can't there just be a damned brightness slider, isntead of a link to the brighness slider.
I see somebody learned a new word today and wrote some paragraphs using it to impress their peers.
(-1 for obscurantism) AFAICS, all GUIs use skeuomorphs to some extent -- pictographs representing menu choices. The "Volume button" looking like a loudspeaker as one example. Some go further than others with "skins" incorporating non-functional decorations.
I believe (no solid data) icons were introduced and continue to be used because
they take fewer pixels than equivalent text;
they look nice in demonstrations by practiced users.
Interestingly, some GUIs provide text when mousing over their icons, doubtless in response to user complains about the ambiguity of icons.
Personally, I use batch whenever possible (wget), CLI normally and GUI only when absolutely necessary (graphical content). The later interfaces have serious drawbacks (require attention, no pipelines) along with their vaunted advantages.
In the audio are, this is just way too exaggerated, but on the other hand, imagine a price of $349.00 for a tool like this: (nearly full UI... at least the main functionality)
http://imgur.com/D8PTB
Its no nice they've now come up with a jargon term for brain-dead GUI design.
I'm not exactly a trained professional GUI designer, but even I know that the computer offers unique user-interface possibilities and challenges that are completely different that what you have with physical objects. If you don't take this into account, but just slavishly copy the physical object, you aren't even bothering to design. I don't think failure to design really merits a special name like this.
I once worked on a project that involved creating a kiosk-like system for USN destroyers to handle water valve switching within the ship. We had pictures of the old system, which was a kiosk with a subway-like map of the piping drawn on it, with pushbuttons placed in various locations in the drawing to allow opening and closing of the various valves. The obvious issue here is that the operator has to work out in their head what combination of valve states will case the water to flow in the pipes the way they want. It seemed to me to be a great idea that we were compterizing this, because we could give them something better.
The task of making the GUI was given to one of those guys on our team who is really productive, but doesn't do a lot of actual thinking (I'm actually kinda jealous of folks like that). He of course just drew the same map on the screen, using the same colors, with pushbuttons in the same places made to look as much like the original pushbuttons as possible.
The waste of the computer's potential in doing it this way actually annoyed me so much, I worked through several lunches to make an alternative. The system I came up with actually drew the network to look like cross-sections of pipe, and would fill in for you which pipes had water flowing through them (based on the condition of all the valves) by showing blue water in the pipe or not. The valves were drawn to look like simple valves, but with indications on them that the were active objects.
It turns out that (unbeknonst to me) we were in a backchannel political competition with another vendor for our project. When the project engineer saw this design, he got all excited and said "This is the kind of thing that will sell this system." I can't say for sure he was right, but I know we didn't end up losing the project. That isn't why I did it though. I just couldn't stand the idea of sticking our poor users (sailors) with that dumbass interface.
I don't get the problem, it helps immediately understand similar concepts from the real world in the computer space. The whole desktop UI metaphore used in Windows/OSX and many UNIX versions is full of skeuomorphisms.
I am on Win7 right now:
Little trashcan icon, for deleting/undeleting files.
Top Level icon is of a "computer", under it I find my hard drives, which look like pictures of physical HD.
My files are organized into folders (that look like little file folders)
The icons for text files are little pieces of paper.
etc... etc...
IMO, this is very good way to create a visual UI for a computer to relate concepts to what we already know from the physical world.
Of course anything can be overdone. When it starts to impair functionality then it has, but I have seen little evidence of that happening anywhere.
I like that kind of interface design. It looks nice and feels cozy.
After the Command Line instruction to execute a program, was a format called the, "Menu Driven" format, it was revolutionary. One didn't have to remember commands, one simply chose an option, and that program would run. You might want to check it out?
I love this line "Early computers used batch processing which, is mostly unheard of today". Cripes! What do you think happens to all the cheques that poeple still write? They are processed by the big banks in a nightly "batch process" for clearing. Batch-mode processing (as opposed to interactive routines) is still the bread and butter of "real" data processing on the larger systems, such as zSeries mainframes and the smaller iSeries (formerly known as AS/400) midrange systems. I love Slashdot but somebody needs to keep kids with no knowledge of the larger IT world beyond their PCs from posting this kind of disinformation. it's like my other favourite question to ask these kind of "PC kiddies"... What's a mainframe? They invariably say "computers from the 1960s that used tubes and stuff" oblivious to the fact that they just accessed the bank's shiny new 2012 zSeries Mainframe from their iPhone. LOL I feel like the old guy keeping the kids off the grass every time I have to remind people of this stuff.
Officially a geek since 1984
It must be eliminated.
This just in, real life and computer tools have radically different interfaces; and no, don't tell me that touchscreens are about to change that. Twisting a knob and dragging a finger across a glass pane is NOT the same thing, and never will. Kinect-style motion recognition never will be more than an approximation of the real feeling of things; using that sort of tech to perfectly replicate the feeling of putting a hand on something, feeling an actual physical resistance would be an immense ressource sink hole. If we ever try, we WILL end up in the bottom of the Uncanny Valley of motion control, just like so many CGI animators. That's why I think skeumorphics is an error.
What must be done is to create a metaphor that is suited to the interface at hand, regardless of how seemingly close the interface is to "the real thing"; that most of the time implies that we must get rid of unnecessay details, of bloat. The best example that comes to my mind is Ableton Live, a digital audio studio. Before Ableton, Digital Audio Workshops (DAWs) tried to imitate the physical layout of an actual studio, with a graphic reproduction of a mixer next to a graphical copy of synths and compressors and etc. It... Well it did work.
What Ableton did is to completely get rid of all those details that belonged to the physical realm, and start anew to create something that would feel good not for a pair of hand, but to a mouse and a keyboard. And they did it! They created one of the most fluid UI experience available in a modern DAW.
Shows an unwillingness to move on or innovate
Insisting on keeping things familiar in designs can often slow down innovation.
Remember, Apple's tagline used to be "Think Different".
How do you tune the radio in your car?
With a rocker switch marked "SEEK". One button linearly searches for a radio station with the next lower frequency; the other the next higher. Some people use the six buttons for bookmarked frequencies that a typical car radio provides, but unlike a computer radio button, they typically don't light up when the current frequency is equal to the bookmark (that is, when pushed).
I tend to run into this in the realm of audio processing.
Radial knobs and toggle switches, while pretty, are absolute bollocks with a mouse. I will use a plug-in that has linear sliders or numerical input if it sounds "good enough" rather than deal with the frustration of a pretty interface that slows my work down. It would have to sound amazing for me to bother.
If a non-audio app has knobs I simply won't use it, no matter what functionality it provides. I'd rather go without. It would be a different story if radial knob peripheral input devices were more standard for computers, but as it stands, keyboard and mouse are dominant.
This is an argument for skinnable UIs, modifiable UIs and GUI/CLI cross use.
Every user has their preferences and we should be able to customize our computers to those preferences. If you want the faux-wood paneling, it's there. If you want some Strong Typing, you should be able to interact with it in bash. It'd be great to be able to type batch commands for Photoshop, even if it was just simple stuff like crop and re-save.
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
No, brevity prefers you write "live-like, or 'skeuomorphic'
Live-like ... live like a band?! What is that supposed to mean? I prefer the actual English word to such nonsense. If you feel your audience is non-technical, sure explain it and then keep on using 'skeuomorphic.' Get used to it, while Apple and other GUI designers persist in this practice you'll be reading it a lot. And after a while even you will find the repeated explanation tiresome.
You might want to grab yourself a dictionary and look up the word "exponentially".
I'm pretty sure think I know what it means, mind you I can look a word up at a hundred miles an hour ... are your are going to ask me to look up 'hundred' now, holding a speed camera? Besides there was a time in your life when your vocabulary was literally growing exponentially.
The real damage is done when one insists upon a single set of controls without giving user or administrator option to set one or the other. You can actually have both by allowing skins to be applied to .
I still fail to understand why Microsoft did not offer the ribbon as an alternative option to menu control (or vice versa.)
One of the genius things that Microsoft did was to make WMP skinnable.
Some of the programs and systems I've loved best had toggles for an advanced or expert mode for those who preferred them.
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