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Are You Gaming For the Right Reasons?

An editorial at IGN discusses healthy (and unhealthy) ways to play video games. The author says that while gaming is a perfectly legitimate hobby, it needs to be approached with moderation and an understanding of what you get out of playing. Without understanding your motivations and compulsions, it's quite possible to play video games in a way that's detrimental. From the article: "Games, especially modern ones, revolve around the principle that if you put the time in, you will be rewarded. Many gamers claim to not understand how anyone could put up with grinding in a video game. But grinding is comforting. Grinding tells us that, no matter what, if you keep playing you'll become more powerful. ... The real world does not operate this way. You can 'grind' at a job for 10 years and still be laid off. You can 'grind' at your physical health your whole life but if you switch to an unhealthy lifestyle you will immediately begin losing this progress. ... It's important for gamers to have mastery of their own mind. Are you grinding out a level in World of Warcraft because you're truly enjoying the experience, or are you doing it to replace missing feelings of self-worth that you don't want to confront? Do you revel in your virtual successes to avoid the uncomfortable internal dialogue regarding of your abandoned gym routine? Are you playing games because you're having fun, or because you have an unconfronted fear of failure?

220 comments

  1. You Game Like You Eat by Subway+Analogy+Guy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sometime during the last year I realized that I was not eating healthy. My lifestyle mostly consisted of eating nachos and pizzas and playing World of Warcraft. While perfectly ideal lifestyle for young gamer, I realized I was getting too old for it.

    Since then I've gamed and eaten healthy. I play with my Wii. I use Kinect for Xbox360. I eat Subway sandwiches.

    And I feel better. You can't even imagine how good Subway's The Big Philly Cheesesteak and Subway Melt tastes. Omnomnom, some extra cheese and bacon to go. My choice of sauces usually includes light mayo and chipotle southwest in Italian Herbs & Cheese bread. I order all the veggies except for tomatoes. I don't know why but I just can't eat tomatoes on a subway or pizzas. Do you know what happens if my mom haven't bought me that days subway in my basement? I feel angry.

    This new healthy lifestyle has not only improved the quality of my life but given me a reason to make it through Mondays. Sweet Onion flavor, mmmm. Ranch sauce.. Breakfast B.M.T gives me the extra power I require for Mondays!

    Remember to game and eat healthy, folks!

    1. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Walterk · · Score: 5, Funny

      You try to preach the virtues of healthy eating and then proceed to advocate Subway "sandwiches"? Oh boy, wait till you learn about this thing called fruit!

    2. Re:You Game Like You Eat by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To be fair, it is one of the more creative trolls I've seen, though... certainly more entertaining than the usual goatse or racist crap. I especially love the part where he says he gets angry if he hasn't had his daily subway, like he's as addicted to it as he is to video games... :P

      Healthy eating is part of the equation. You can eat as healthy as you want to, if you're not getting enough of the right exercise you'll still have health problems. Humans evolved to move, and the sedentary lifestyle we live today is bad for our health.

    3. Re:You Game Like You Eat by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Oh boy, wait till you learn about this thing called fruit!

      Unless it's served on sugared white bread lathered with butter, comes in XXL size with extra bacon and covered with sauce, I don't want to know about it.

      Given the rest of his post, I think GP was being sarcastic. I mean; "Do you know what happens if my mom haven't bought me that days subway in my basement? I feel angry."... does that sound like something a grown up person would say?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    4. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Nyder · · Score: 1

      Sometime during the last year I realized that I was not eating healthy. My lifestyle mostly consisted of eating nachos and pizzas and playing World of Warcraft. While perfectly ideal lifestyle for young gamer, I realized I was getting too old for it.

      Since then I've gamed and eaten healthy. I play with my Wii. I use Kinect for Xbox360. I eat Subway sandwiches.

      And I feel better. You can't even imagine how good Subway's The Big Philly Cheesesteak and Subway Melt tastes. Omnomnom, some extra cheese and bacon to go. My choice of sauces usually includes light mayo and chipotle southwest in Italian Herbs & Cheese bread. I order all the veggies except for tomatoes. I don't know why but I just can't eat tomatoes on a subway or pizzas. Do you know what happens if my mom haven't bought me that days subway in my basement? I feel angry.

      This new healthy lifestyle has not only improved the quality of my life but given me a reason to make it through Mondays. Sweet Onion flavor, mmmm. Ranch sauce.. Breakfast B.M.T gives me the extra power I require for Mondays!

      Remember to game and eat healthy, folks!

      I like subway, how much do they pay you post messages like this? Free food? I want in!

      --
      Be seeing you...
    5. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His username might give some indication though...

    6. Re:You Game Like You Eat by BenoitRen · · Score: 2

      I order all the veggies except for tomatoes. I don't know why but I just can't eat tomatoes on a subway or pizzas.

      Tomatoes are fruit.

    7. Re:You Game Like You Eat by somersault · · Score: 2

      Did you even notice his username?

      I'm pretty sure this is PizzaAnalogyGuy. And Dr Bob (I think?) the chiropractor :p And I know who made Dr Bob since he slipped up one day..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    8. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This must be a new advertising system. Slashdot puts ad-comments into the system rather than the more usual sponspoed links and banner ads.

    9. Re:You Game Like You Eat by mythix · · Score: 1

      until evolution solves that problem for us, that is :)

    10. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last I heard, Subway's bread (in the UK at least) even included hydrogenated vegetable oil. Yeah, nice healthy food...

    11. Re:You Game Like You Eat by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      Tomatoes are fruit.

      So are green peppers, cucumber (pickled and fresh), hot peppers and olives. If you just want non-fruits, you're stuck with the lettuce and onions.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    12. Re:You Game Like You Eat by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Ah, that reminds me also about our dear friend BadAnalogyGuy. He seems to have had radio silence for pretty much exactly an year though. But hackers never die, they only disappear.

    13. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Miseph · · Score: 1

      If tomatoes are a fruit, then how is ketchup a vegetable? Clearly you are mistaken, sir. Check and mate.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    14. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      until evolution solves that problem for us, that is :)

      It already is, by killing us off slowly.

    15. Re:You Game Like You Eat by f3rret · · Score: 1

      You again? I thought you died.

      --
      Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
    16. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes me wonder what ketchup is actually made of

    17. Re:You Game Like You Eat by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      It is amusing. But even still - it has a kernel of truth (like all really good trolls). If you're sitting around eating fast food and junk food, eating something like Subway instead is a marked improvement. Could you be eating better than that? Yes. But it's still worlds better than what you were doing before.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    18. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I play games (FPS on PC only) for a number of reasons:
      1) After an intense day at work (not good or bad, just lots of things going on), I come home with work on my mind. When I go on a bike ride, I will be thinking about work. When I go out to dinner with the wife, I will be thinking about work. When I play a game, this forcibly (and enjoyably) purges work from my mind. Note: I really enjoy what I do, so 'thinking about work' for me isn't terrible, but I do want to shift to another gear when the work day is over. Games aren't the only thing that could do this, but they are immediately available and quite enjoyable.

      2) When the weather is shit and I'm otherwise not inclined to go outside. I enjoy snowboarding and cross country skiing in the winter, but those generally need a full day's time for me to enjoy. When the weather is over 100F for several days in a row (as it has been lately), I'm inside playing games more.

      3) When there's new game content, playing games will take a priority. This, however, really only happens once upon a game's release. When HL2 Episode 3 comes out, for example, I'll be taking a vacation day to build a three-day weekend of uninterrupted Valve. When Metro: Last Light comes out? Another three-day weekend. When Borderlands 2 comes out, it will just be the game of choice for options 1 and 2 (as I imagine this game will involve leveling characters, and that's not something that happens over a weekend for me).

      4) Other - If people with whom I chat online actually manage to plan a play date for a game, I'll play. When TF2's Halloween Specials come out, I will play those. When my nephews ask, "how come I keep dying in games?", the master will appear.

    19. Re:You Game Like You Eat by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Hey, don't forget about spinach!

      I always sub in spinach instead of lettuce if I can. Lettuce has no damn flavor. Spinach is probably better for you anyway.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    20. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 1

      Fruits are vegetables.

      (A vegetable is any edible part of a plant.)

    21. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And so are beans if you want to be technical.

      I like to have beans and diced tomatoes in my chili. It gives me all the recommended servings of fruit I need in a day.

    22. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, apparently he's returned...

    23. Re:You Game Like You Eat by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Flaimbait?! Come on people, this post was glorious!

      Now if only we could get a MyCleanPC analogy...

      --
      +1 Disagree
    24. Re:You Game Like You Eat by SolitaryMan · · Score: 1

      Well, "survival of the fittest" does not guarantee survival for any particular specie.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    25. Re:You Game Like You Eat by GospelHead821 · · Score: 2

      This is an excellent point. I'm studying nutrition and I see a lot of "all or nothing" attitudes out there. If all somebody can afford or is willing to do is eat fresh fruit instead of a processed snack once a week, I still encourage them to do it. 6 days of processed snacks and 1 day of fresh fruit is better than 7 days of processed snacks!

      Furthermore, incremental improvements in one's diet eventually add up into big changes and are, besides, easier to turn into habits. Going full vegetarian overnight? Difficult. Incorporating one vegetarian meal into your weekly menu? Easy. My wife and I dine vegetarian two or three times a week now, just for the sake of variety.

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    26. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Leave the idiotic novelty accounts to reddit, please.

    27. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You try to preach the virtues of healthy eating and then proceed to advocate Subway "sandwiches"? Oh boy, wait till you learn about this thing called fruit!

      Not to keep the troll fest going, but if you can name a single chain that has nearly the number of locations across the US (even an order of magnitude away) and offers healthier single-meal, ready to eat food (grocers dont count) than Subway I would like to know who it is.

    28. Re:You Game Like You Eat by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Ketchup is only a vegetable if you believe in trickle-down fairy dust. Remember, the man who said ketchup was a vegetable had alzheimer's and said cutting taxes on the rich helped the economy. Bush Jr disproved that one when he slashed the rich's taxes and crashed the economy.

      Plus, there is no such thing as a vegetable if you ask a biologist. A vegetable is simply any part of any plant that's not a root or fruit; it's not a biology term.

      Ask a dictionary or encyclopedia, not a Republican. Remember Dan Quayle's spelling of "potato"?

    29. Re:You Game Like You Eat by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      BadAnalogyGuy's karma got so bad he could only post once a day.

    30. Re:You Game Like You Eat by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      To be fair, it is one of the more creative trolls I've seen

      You need to learn the difference between a troll and a joke, Sheldon. He was parodying Subway commercials, health nuts, and slashdotters. It was funny and well done. He deserves the +5 he already has.

    31. Re:You Game Like You Eat by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      i think we should rename it survival of the most prolific breeder.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    32. Re:You Game Like You Eat by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      Dr bob was a good troll i havne't seen him in a while though.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    33. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      Where's the astroturf mod option?

    34. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fruits are ovaries.

    35. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Up your butt.

    36. Re:You Game Like You Eat by somersault · · Score: 1

      Yep, because he blew his cover one day by posting from the wrong account! :p

      --
      which is totally what she said
    37. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      dude! it's like, the same with smoking weed! i've found that smoking weed cures everything! like for example, when i have a headache... take some aspirin, smoke some weed, headache gone! upset stomach? take some pepto, smoke some weed, stomach feels great! bad back? pop some doan's, smoke some weed, all better. it's a miracle cure!

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    38. Re:You Game Like You Eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheese-steak and subway melt with extra cheese and bacon is healthy?
      Only by USA's standards :p

      I can just imagine how much better you'd feel if you ate something that hasn't been processed by a large corporate food chain.

      You know, vegetables, meat ... maybe even Chinese food (not American Chinese food, which appears to be deep fried gunk with more oil floating on top than released into the Atlantic ocean, and certainly not European chinese food which could generally be said to be cooked by an apprentice mechanic on loan to the restaurant for the day).

      I mean green vegetables, various other coloured vegetables, little chunks of meat, maybe some funky sauces .. lightly stir fired and then dumped on a bed of rice.

  2. Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I play games to shoot people in the face. Call it end of day "stress-relief."

    1. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I used to think that's what I was doing. Then I realized that, more times than not, the night ends with my blood pressure being higher than when I started and I'm inches from throwing the xbox remote through my TV.

      Maybe I should pick games I'm better at. That or we euthanize known campers and snipers as a public health measure.

    2. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe you shouldn't play a FPS with a fucking controller.

    3. Re:Pffft... by gomiam · · Score: 1

      Snipers are snipers. Campers, though, should only be allowed with a knife (at least that requires someability). OTOH, I miss the pre-Source Counter Strike times when you could actually move sideways so quickly a sniper would usually miss (tested with, AFAIK, quite good players; it annoyed the hell out of them).

    4. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, there is your problem. Pretending this way cannot be a healthy way of relieving stress, what you need to do is to get a real gun and shoot real people.

    5. Re:Pffft... by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Modded down for truth?

      Every FPS game I've played on both Console and PC (when available for both, obviously), I enjoyed immensely more on PC, simply because I didn't feel like I was fighting both the damn physical and virtual interfaces just to play the game.

    6. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FPS/any multiplayer stuff is just going to build stress most days. Just shoot for some relaxing adventure/rpg type games and stay away from things like Dark Souls.

    7. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Campers are campers too, and just because the grand parent is too dumb to deal with them doesn't mean we should cripple them.

    8. Re:Pffft... by febreezey · · Score: 2

      The same thing happened to me whenever I played fighting games. I was never really good at them but I played them a lot because in my mind it was a way of getting out my frustrations, but I would leave a session of gaming feeling much angrier than before. After a while I just had to stop, it was making me feel miserable to not only lose a lot but also to walk away with my blood pressure high.

    9. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey not fair, I snipe but I dont camp. There is no fun in spawn killing etc. I enjoy finding little quirks in level design for a sniping point most rush and shotgun players never look at.

    10. Re:Pffft... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Well. Paper people. That may work.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    11. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FPS's might be the problem... perhaps try an RPG

    12. Re:Pffft... by gman003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Pro-tip: Play against bots, not other people, and at a lower difficulty than you normally would.

      Don't play against people for stress-relief, because there are players who play specifically to annoy other players, either to win in a dirty way (campers) or for its own sake (trolls).

      Play at a low difficulty. Normally, you *want* to hit a point that you ave to get better, have to work at it, in order to win. But when playing to vent, drop the difficulty a notch or two below that, so you don't frustrate yourself.

      Also, pick the right games. I've found Unreal Tournament 2004 (especially the Mutant gamemode) and Counter-Strike are the best for stress relief. The right music helps as well - I generally go for thrash metal, Ride the Lightning, Endgame, that kind of stuff.

    13. Re:Pffft... by tepples · · Score: 2

      If you have friends over but only one gaming PC, do you enjoy sitting and waiting your turn until they finish?

    14. Re:Pffft... by StrangeBrew · · Score: 1

      Couldn't agree more, though these tips are probably tailored just to specific personality types. 1) Play against bots, either solo or in co-op. 2) Play at a level of difficulty where if you die it's because you did something stupid as opposed to dying because you didn't handle the situation perfectly. I'd add, 3) Once you've played a game through, consider enabling cheats and playing again. Use your new-found power to explore the game and appreciate everything from artistic detail to dialogue you didn't have time to listen to the first go-around. 4) This speaks to the 'Play FPS's only on PC's' type argument: If you find a game too frustrating, even at the lowest difficulty, try a different game. If this is your relaxation/detox time, you aren't doing yourself any favors by being persistent.

    15. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do yourself a favor and stop being so butthurt about nobody using your platform of choice. It's really sad.

    16. Re:Pffft... by Glarimore · · Score: 1

      As a person who has played competitive Counter-Strike (the original, not the Source remake) for about ten yen years, i have to laugh every time I read something like, "either to win in a dirty way (campers)." I wasn't aware that "camping" was dirty play? So because when YOU'RE running around the map and YOU are too lazy to check corners and YOU assume no one is there, I am somehow a "dirty" player? Laughable. It's the same response I have to people who complain about the AWP (sniper rifle). It's part of the game, if you don't like it choose a different genre or server. The sniper isn't "unbalanced" just because you as an individual are too inexperienced of a player to know how to tactically deal with. That's part of getting better at the game.

      You might as well say, "I like Chess, but I get annoyed by dirty players who use their bishops to infiltrate my front line and check mate me in 15 moves." You're less skilled so you complain about the tactics being used to kill you.

    17. Re:Pffft... by gman003 · · Score: 2

      Either that, or I don't want to play like a "skilled" player, I want to play like a "having fun" player.

      When I'm actually playing a "serious" match (read: LAN match with friends), I play "properly" - slice corners, use flash, all that. But when I'm just trying to shoot terrorism in the face? I don't want to do that. I just want to grab an M4 and a Deagle and shoot terrorism (in the face).

      I call it a dirty tactic only because it's an "un-fun" tactic, and I call it an un-fun tactic because the gameplay elements involved are not fun (for the majority of gamers - there will always be some people who enjoy it, for any value of "it").

    18. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Skill based is the best way to go.

      Grinding is just a lame equalizing mechanism.

    19. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd recommend a nice single player game like Batman: Arkham Asylum (or City)

      There's something quite satisfying about beating the crap out of thugs and then disappearing into the night.

      Also, you get to be the freaking Batman!

    20. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I plug in some more mice and set my HDMI switch to the big screen.

    21. Re:Pffft... by Baloroth · · Score: 0

      They have these fancy new portable PCs called "laptops" now. Small enough to fit in a bag, can you believe it? I'm surprised you haven't heard of them, considering every one of my friends has one. Not even that expensive, and no sharing a screen that reduces a 1080p screen to an effective 480p! Incredible, I know.

      /sarcasm

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    22. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. If there's one thing that makes playing an FPS game annoying, it's having to wait while you turn around.

    23. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your friends don't bring their gaming PC?

    24. Re:Pffft... by wikthemighty · · Score: 1

      Plenty of great "couch co-op" games on PC.

      Recently I've played:

      A Virus Named Tom

      Trine 2

      Rayman Origins

      Portal 2

      Magicka

      Dungeon Defenders

      Disney Universe (we've got a 3yo in the house!)

      --
      "There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
    25. Re:Pffft... by SolitaryMan · · Score: 1

      Where did you get a Fucking controller? I want one!

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    26. Re:Pffft... by GospelHead821 · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree with this statement, with one exception. I intentionally hooked a Dualshock2 controller up to my PC to play Descent 3. The number of degrees of motion available made the two analog sticks really handy.

      --
      Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
      Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
    27. Re:Pffft... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      I play games to shoot people in the face. Call it end of day "stress-relief."

      I honestly play for a different reason, you know those studies that were released showing that people who game also gain the benefits of being distracted from their chronic pain? Well I figure that gaming is probably better than popping drugs all the time(it is), I can only take so many narcotics in a day before it really starts wearing on me pretty heavily.

      I couldn't care less about some busybody and their "gaming for the right reason" I care that it's distracting me long enough that I'm not taking either Tylenol 3's, Hydromorphone, tencal-c, or two or three other things depending on the situation between migraines and my back which is so fucked up I can barely get dressed some days, let alone walk down the stairs, to try and make something to eat. Besides, stress in itself is healthy for you. And it all comes down perceptions of how you deal with it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    28. Re:Pffft... by tepples · · Score: 1
      Anonymous Coward wrote:

      [When I have friends over,] I plug in some more mice and set my HDMI switch to the big screen.

      Which games do you recommend with that setup, apart from those that wikthemighty recommended?

    29. Re:Pffft... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Twenty years or so ago there were two large barking German Shepherds that would keep me up all night. The first thing I'd do when I got off work the next day was fire up Wolfenstein, just to shoot the god damned dogs.

      It felt good!

    30. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're definitely playing the wrong games. Sounds like you need to try something like Flower or Journey...

    31. Re:Pffft... by gomiam · · Score: 1
      It seems our experiences differ. Most games I have played at consider camping bad for the game experience. Of course, I'm not talking about competition games, just playing for the fun of it. Having someone who stands there basically motionless shooting at whoever happens to show up (if you are lucky, only at members of the other team) is annoying for most people.

      Actually, the real problem (IMO) isn't having just one camper. Only the least experienced players usually have problems with just one camper. But having one camper and not getting him punished usually has a call effect on other would-be campers. Really, having to dodge three or four sniping campers at the same time gets old quickly.

      If you like campers, have fun with them. I don't, and I find them a nuisance that is better off the servers I play at.

    32. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that I find campers a benefit to the game experience, it's just that I find it a valid strategy in certain situations and I don't mind putting a few rounds into a camper if I spot him.. maybe you play games where it's more of a problem.

    33. Re:Pffft... by Clsid · · Score: 1

      That would only make sense if the other people didn't have the same limitations as you. See what is so cool about playing FPS games on consoles is that there is a fair playing field, no guys who can see farther than others because of their nice video card, people that can use helicopters or jets better (Think Battlefield) because they have a joystick, and so on.

      When you realize that both have the same chance and all you need is practice, you will see that playing Call of Duty or Battlefield can be one hell of an experience.

    34. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Widescreen monitor
      + Modern multicore powerhouse
      + 2x virtual machines
      + 2x keyboard/mouse combo
      -----
      = Splitscreen counterstrike fun.

    35. Re:Pffft... by gomiam · · Score: 1
      Yes, it may be a valid strategy. Unfortunately, I find it quite annoying when someone spends over a minute at the same place on a team deathmatch (the usual way I play for fun):
      • it doesn't make the team win the round by eliminating the other team (because TDM respawns continuously)
      • it doesn't add to the gameplay (oh, look, three snipers at the same place and too far away to lob a grenade on them, I'm sure I will be able to headshot all three of them before they manage to hit me -note: I sometimes managed to dodge them all, but that's unusual-)
      • and, worst of all, incites other players (on either team) to camp as well. And then a supposed team deathmatch turns into "Big Game Hunter". Sorry, if I wanted to play that game, I would buy it and I wouldn't have to deal with automatic fire. They can got shoot ducks at the fair if they wish not to move.

      By the way, I could possibly deal with sniping campers. But usual campers won't even risk that: they will get an automatic scoped weapon if they can so they can shoot more times just in case. AFAIK there are enough servers that reject camping for me to think that it isn't a very well considered strategy :)

    36. Re:Pffft... by heefeneet · · Score: 2

      Where did you get a Fucking controller? I want one!

      eHarmony is a good start....

    37. Re:Pffft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I don't think it has a place in Team Deathmatch unless you're playing a game where squad tactics might be desired (SWAT 4, BF3 Squad DM, CS). In those games you might want to have someone hold a particular position or maybe your whole team wants to hold a building or what not.

      I never camp in action oriented TDM because you just get less points in the end. Less targets.

  3. Escape reality by Quakeulf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I play games to escape reality, hence I dislike the attempts at reality in a game as the current tech generation does not handle it very well. I also play games to socialise, and PVP is a great way of doing that, especially fighting games and shooters, but other arcadey genres are welcome too. There is a social aspect to gaming that I keep returning to when I am not busy playing Fallout 1 or Fallout 2 just one more time to get all the possible combinations of endings like I have done since 1996 and 1997.

    1. Re:Escape reality by gomiam · · Score: 2

      Interestingly, I have managed to get almost no socialization from other online players unless I played some kind of PvE or team PvP game. Pure PvP and free for all games seem (IMO) to make interaction a bit more difficult. Those I usually reserve for playing with people I already have some previous interaction.

    2. Re:Escape reality by Quakeulf · · Score: 1

      Thanks to the wonders of the internets we now have Skype, IRC, Facebook and other means to communicate with the people I meet in the games and not just through the in-game messaging system or whatever feature the consoles are having. I have met and become friends with a lot of new and interesting people through gameplay, more so than a lot of other activities (mostly drinking and complaining anonymously on certain messageboards of dubious nature). I guess it also comes down to your geographical location and the game you are playing. In my age group I find a lot of people are playing fighting games and more arcadey shooters like Quake (where I obviously got my nickname from), and relating to those people then becomes quite easy and you find people easily who you get along with. Attending gaming tournaments and similar gaming events help too. Have faith if you believe, there is a brave new world of gaming out there. :3

    3. Re:Escape reality by gomiam · · Score: 1
      Good point, but... will you talk to anyone through those means if the only interchange you have is at best "gj" or "gg" during the game? I don't think so.

      A few anecdotes: the reason I chat with some players is that I asked the server admin to put in place some way to punish aimbotters, wallhackers and the like. Had that system already been in place I probably wouldn't be talking to them. And none of them are under 1000km from me, except a couple who joined some time after I did. In the same vein, I have added to my contact lists people I play L4D2 with because they are good PvE teammates and nice people to boot. I haven't done that with people I played against in the same game. Perhaps it is me being weird, I don't know.

  4. WHOA !! DUDE !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you are GAMING and think you need any sort of reason, you are one messed up dude !!

    1. Re:WHOA !! DUDE !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Word. What's even worse are these so called "Drinking Games". Like I need a freaking ping pong ball to tell me when I can get drunk.

    2. Re:WHOA !! DUDE !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drinking Games

      "I'm watching NASCAR this Sunday" is more socially acceptable than "Yeah, I'm going to be drinking all day".

  5. because you have an unconfronted fear of failure by Neil_Brown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or because it is a better means of escapism than reading cod-psychology online?

  6. grinding is for neckbeards with no skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    all they have to do is play it 100 hours a week and they're gods. that's why i don't play multiplayer rpgs, i don't want to be in a "no life contest" with some unemployed fat guy in kentucky.

    1. Re:grinding is for neckbeards with no skills by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 5, Funny

      quite honestly, in all truth, modern western MMOs (fuck that eastern masochism-as-an-mmo shit) are way better than trying to beat a 13 year old who has been off of school all summer at call of duty. kids today are inhuman, I swear.

      I'll get my revenge though, by the time my own spawn is 13 years old, this current crop of kids will be in their mid-late 20s, and my boy will avenge his daddy! avenge I say!

    2. Re:grinding is for neckbeards with no skills by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      When I catch myself Grinding or getting obsessed with winning that one quest. I tell myself it is time to quit for the day. If I am not having fun, it means I should stop playing.

      The last time I really just Grinding was because I was obsessed in winning a quest, In my obsession all my usable gear became to broken to use, and I spent all my money to get it fixed, then I ended up breaking it again. So I spent a weak a few hours every night grinding to build up cash, to first repair my stuff so I can do other quests again to make money faster.
      But I am fine with players who are better then me. I just like having fun, if I loose I loose, I try again. Until I am fixated on really winning then I stop and do another quest or just quit the game.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:grinding is for neckbeards with no skills by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      Bingo.

      We (g-friend and I) got involved with a guild that had a whole set of people like this. Very nice at first, great fun, but within a couple months the social cracks started to show badly. Eventually we basically stopped playing WoW. It was just too stressful dealing with crazy social BS, people drinking themselves silly every night, unemployment, constant complaining, and bad moods... just depressing and futile, while we're actually building careers and have a fun, healthy relationship.

      --
      -
    4. Re:grinding is for neckbeards with no skills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kids today are inhuman, I swear.

      man, have u ever played megaman? i used to be pro at that shit when i was a kid, try beating even 1 level nowadays.

  7. Have no fear by pntkl · · Score: 2

    I confronted my fear of failure long ago. Now, grinding has more to do with my hatred of [unnecessary] failure.

    1. Re:Have no fear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes

    2. Re:Have no fear by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Why are you playing the game if you are not having fun?

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Have no fear by tepples · · Score: 1

      Why are you playing the game if you are not having fun?

      Because I'm testing the video game that the industry requires me to make before I'm allowed to make the game I want to make. As far as I can tell, the standard way into the industry is 1. make a game for a touch-screen phone to build a portfolio, even if you don't like games for touch-screen phones; 2. work for an established video game studio for several years to build "relevant video game industry experience"; 3. finally start your own company, become licensed, and make the game you want to make. Is there a way to skip to 3 faster, and if so, what is it?

    4. Re:Have no fear by neminem · · Score: 1

      Being a genius? Doesn't work for most people, but it certainly made Notch a jillion dollars...

  8. It's time for another good idea, bad idea by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good idea: Playing a game to have a good time, challenge your mind, and reduce your stress.
    Bad idea: Playing a game instead of having a good time, boring your mind, and causing stress.

    In other words, the moment a game starts interfering with your friends, family, work, marriage, etc, stop now! The game will be there for you if and when you come back to it.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good idea: Playing a game to have a good time, challenge your mind, and reduce your stress.
      Bad idea: Playing a game and ignoring real life

    2. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, the moment a game starts interfering with your friends, family, work, marriage, etc, stop now! The game will be there for you if and when you come back to it.

      Correct. That is what's called "an Addiction"! Put down and step away from the controller. Go and take a long overdue shower. Walk or jog a few miles and buy some colorful vegetables. Repeat daily. Give the game systems to your young nephews/neighbor kids. Get a job. Go back to gaming when it doesn't control/overtake your life.

    3. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, it'll sound like I'm preaching here, but I think it all has to do with maturity too. Some 5 years ago, I used to play a lot, usually alienating some friends and my wife. At some point, I realized that I wasn't getting anything for it but the satisfaction of the entertainment, which is empty in itself, if you think about it. So I changed my gaming habits - I still play often, but only when I have nothing else more useful or fulfilling to do, and I do it now with the conscious view that I do (and should do) it to have fun, not because I should win the game or be the best at it - I realized that gaming with that kind of pressure at some point actually takes the fun away. So once a gaming session develops into a grinding I just stop and resume at some other time. And it's kind of funny now that I see some colleagues at work play some FPSs at lunch, cursing at each other, and I wonder: how can they have fun this way? how being the best on the game will make them any better persons than the other?

    4. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong, it's the exact opposite.

      The moment your friends, family, work and marriage start interfering with your game you have to get rid of them.

      Bad idea: having a good time, challenging your mind and reducing your stress.

      Good idea: playing a game.

    5. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I play games to get away from exactly those things!

    6. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is exactly why I stopped playing Final Fantasy XI all those years ago. At first I really enjoyed it, I was young, unmarried, and had plenty of free time to do the endless grinding the game requires. However as time went on I discovered that it was beginning to interfere with my life. I was staying up to 2 or 3 at night in the hopes that I might be able to claim some unique spawn that I needed for some weapon or another (along with about 100 other people I might add), I was farming monsters over and over again for materials for my linkshell and not even getting to the enjoyable parts of the game anymore. I even changed my character from something I enjoyed to a very cookie cutter build that was boring as hell to play because that was the only way people would invite you into a party. Sure I was 'winning' the game, but I was having a miserable time doing it. The game was becoming a second job, I was running home from work just to log in and start accomplishing whatever tasks I needed to do that night in order to keep up with the game. When I dared do something else like watch a movie or play another game, I felt guilty because I was falling behind the rest of the linkshell and then I felt stressed out because I hard to work twice as hard to catch up/

      One day while I was sitting for my second or third hour looking for a party, the heavens opened and everything in my brain just clicked. Here I was sitting around in real life watching my avatar sit around in a game (MMORPG Inception!), neither one of us enjoying ourselves. So I logged out the game and never returned. My Paladin may still be sitting around in Jeuno waiting for something, but I'm not.

      I still play games (classic and modern), but I only play games that are fun and stay far far away from MMORPGs. I also balance gaming with a decently active (for a nerd anyway) social life and spending time with my non-gamer wife. When a game starts to become a second job it's time to sit back and question what you're doing. MMORPGs are insidious in this regard because they demand constant attention. If you put a MMORPG aside for a few weeks to do other things then you're several weeks behind and have to work twice as hard to catch up. With any other type of game you can wait months if not years to finish it and your game doesn't care, it's still there waiting for you and you're right where you were when you left.

    7. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The game will be there for you if and when you come back to it.

      I'm guessing you're not using any of these 'gotta be logged into Xbox Live or Steam' games then.

    8. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      I realized that gaming with that kind of pressure at some point actually takes the fun away. So once a gaming session develops into a grinding I just stop and resume at some other time. And it's kind of funny now that I see some colleagues at work play some FPSs at lunch, cursing at each other, and I wonder: how can they have fun this way?

      Some people actually enjoy the challenge. For them, being the best (or just better than the people you play against often) is in itself a reward, and getting the experience to get there is a challenge which is in and of itself enjoyable. I'm not a fan of grinding that doesn't improve your skill, only your character's "skill", but playing to improve your own skill is fun, and the end reward is the thrill of defeating opponents. Especially opponents who used to beat you a lot.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    9. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't play games for the challenge, however. When I play, a game I don't want to steamroll right through it, but I also don't want it stupid hard that I never progress. Call it casual gaming, but that's how I play.

      MMORPGs and even RPGs are in compatible with that expectation. Classic shmups and some (not all) platform games are the ones I play and even then, sometimes I wonder why I am playing so many levels to get to the goal.

    10. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by Tempest_2084 · · Score: 1

      Nope, I try to avoid those as well (although I will admit that I played Diablo III for all of the 5 days it took me to beat it). When given a choice I try get the physical media over a download even if it costs more. I like to take my time with games and I like to go back and play games over again years later. I get sad when I realize that this may not be possible in the future with games that only exist as long as some server is up or I can connect to some network. Then again, I haven't seen many games lately that I actually want to play again. :)

    11. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by loom_weaver · · Score: 2

      This is what clicked for me.

      On an old mud I was playing, my character's XP was stored in a 32 bit variable. This variable was serialized to disk.

      I had 29 days played time. Most of that time was spent incrementing that value in that variable.

      Ultimately in the end, it dawned on me that I was spending a lot of my life energy to flip a single bit on a hard-disk somewhere.

    12. Re:It's time for another good idea, bad idea by humanrev · · Score: 1

      True, and it's the same with achievements/trophies.

      Some achievements can be so damn hard to get, or require a certain exhausting type of play to persist throughout the entire game. And what do you get for all that work and effort? Some Boolean flag is changed on your account from FALSE to TRUE.

      Now if you enjoy obtaining achievements then more power to you. But if it becomes a form of work and the amount of energy expended to achievement it isn't well... fun, then you haven't really achieved much of anything. In many cases achievements are there specifically so you can show them off to others - but I have no-one in my life who gives a shit about achievements that occur in a computer game, so that's basically what made me forget about them. Achievements in life have a lot more value.

      --
      Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
  9. Pavlov Postings. by Ostracus · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm 'grinding' to get 'first post'.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    1. Re:Pavlov Postings. by azalin · · Score: 2

      I was thinking of a bad joke that included the words "good time" "grinding" and "wife", but hereby refrain from writing it out.

  10. Are you sure you're reading Slashdot for ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Are you sure you're reading Slashdot for the right reasons?

    1. Re:Are you sure you're reading Slashdot for ... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      No I am not, I am not afraid to admit it. I am doing it because I don't want to do work at the moment.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  11. About the goals that people grind to reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Humans generally carry around a set of mythological symbols and constructs in their minds, as part of what's called culture.

    For example, as a European: Farms are good. Animals are good. Money is good. Baking cakes is good.

    Very many games with grinding systems basically play on these cultural symbols and to let people achieve them with minimal effort. Touch the screen a few times and you have a successful bakery shop. Wiggle the controller for a few hours and you have a thriving farm.

    Essentially, achieving the same cultural symbols in a digital world just with minimal effort.

  12. grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Many gamers claim to not understand how anyone could put up with grinding in a video game."

    hmm.. ok.. the other gamers realize they're all grinding in some sense.

    "But grinding is comforting."

    no, not really.

    "Grinding tells us that, no matter what, if you keep playing you'll become more powerful.",

    Well, in e.g. World of Warcraft, you grind to get to max level, because that's the entry point of the game. Or are they claiming that playing more makes your character more powerful? I'd sure hope so.

    "The real world does not operate this way. You can 'grind' at a job for 10 years and still be laid off. You can 'grind' at your physical health your whole life but if you switch to an unhealthy lifestyle you will immediately begin losing this progress."

    Well, sure, you can 'grind' fishing in a starting zone for years and make nothing.. There's many, many ways to grind in games and have nothing to show for it, just like real life. Grats.

    Are they claiming IRL, working hard is meaningless? The "health" analogy sounds _exactly_ like a video game; a capped "health", a decay once an unhealthy lifestyle begins.

    "Do you revel in your virtual successes to avoid the uncomfortable internal dialogue regarding of your abandoned gym routine?"
    Really? I guess I can't abandon a routine I never had. Or have an uncomfortable internal dialogue about it.

    Let's file "avoid the uncomfortable internal dialogue regarding of your abandoned gym routine" in first-world-problems.. actually, in the tiny corner of FWP where you put things that aren't problems.

    1. Re:grind it by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are they claiming IRL, working hard is meaningless?

      Largely, yes. Look at the hardest workers around. Construction workers, nurses, loggers, wind turbine technicians. These people work fucking hard, and are lucky if they make it to the middle class.

      Now look at the most successful people in the country. Lawyers, bankers, CEOs. They all sit around wearing pressed suits and charge tens if not hundreds of times the hourly rate of our hard working friends above. And they produce little or nothing of value for that time.

      That's the world we live in. The more successful you are, the less hard work you actually do.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:grind it by Miseph · · Score: 2

      "Are they claiming IRL, working hard is meaningless?"

      This may sound strange, counter-intuitive, pessimistic, and maybe a even a bit misanthropic... but in many, perhaps even most, cases hard work _is_ completely meaningless. Most people who work hard for their entire lives, try their best to live within the law and their own ethical guidelines end up with shit to show for it, at least in a purely objective sense. When your boss' boss' boss loots the pension fund to buy a South Asian island populated with underage hookers, it doesn't matter how hard you worked or how good a person you are: that fuckbag just fucked you even harder than he fucks his 12 year-old ladyboys after years of making more then you make in a lifetime, just because he could get a little bit more at your expense.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    3. Re:grind it by X0563511 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You seem to be equating "hard work" with labor intensive work.

      Are you telling me a chemist can't work hard unless he's hauling containers back and forth? Are you telling me an administrator can't bust their ass with the only physical work being that of going to the file cabinet and back?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    4. Re:grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about you, but up here, wind turbine technicians can easily make it to the middle-class, even upper-class if you're careful with your money. Salaries start in the low 70s and get well into the 100s.

      Source: I am a wind turbine technician employed by GE.

    5. Re:grind it by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 3

      IANAL, but I can tell you that most of them spend the first ten years, at least, after law school working 60+ hours a week. Most CEOs have done that for 20-30 years to get where they are. Just because something is less physically demanding than carrying a hod doesn't mean it isn't hard work.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    6. Re:grind it by Metabolife · · Score: 2

      You seem to be equating "hard work" with labor intensive work.

      Are you telling me a chemist can't work hard unless he's hauling containers back and forth? Are you telling me an administrator can't bust their ass with the only physical work being that of going to the file cabinet and back?

      That depends.. is he running?

    7. Re:grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now look at the most successful people in the country. Lawyers, bankers, CEOs. They all sit around wearing pressed suits and charge tens if not hundreds of times the hourly rate of our hard working friends above. And they produce little or nothing of value for that time.

      If they didn't produce anything of value, nobody would pay them those rates. And as other people have pointed out, "working hard" is not limited to physical labor.

    8. Re:grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not necessarily- They are in a position to manipulate the context in which they operate to inflate their income far beyond what would normally paid by the market.

    9. Re:grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because of supply and demand.

      Any idiot can be a construction worker they just need to work hard. Nurses need some training, but most of their job is following instructions from a doctor, and not quitting when they get covered in bodily fluids. You can turn basicly anybody into a construction worker, nurse, or technician, so supply of those workers is large and therfore they don't demand much pay.

      On the other hand Lawyers, bankers, and CEOs mostly have to asses the situation and make the correct choice. The knowledge nesesary to distinguish between correct and incorrect choices is not particularly common, and therefore demands higher market value.

    10. Re:grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent poster doesn't know the difference between manual labor and hard work but gets modded to +5 because he caters to the prejudices of uneducated people who think lawyers, bankers, and CEOs serve no purpose. (By his measure, IT workers produce little or nothing of value either.)

      I'm so sad at what /. has become

    11. Re:grind it by Hatta · · Score: 1

      If they didn't produce anything of value, nobody would pay them those rates.

      Only if you assume our economy is based on rational behavior and there are no perverse incentives whatsoever. That is, if you ignore reality.

      And as other people have pointed out, "working hard" is not limited to physical labor.

      Yeah, I'm sure those wet lunches and long hours on the golf course really take it out of someone. I bet they dont' even have the energy to thank their staff for dinner when they get home.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    12. Re:grind it by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      What nurses do you hang around with?
      The nurses I know make absolutely TONS of money, travel, get invited to staff different hospitals on other states.
      They make at least double what I do, often triple or more.
      Healthcare, on the whole, is rolling in cash.

    13. Re:grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they didn't produce anything of value, nobody would pay them those rates. And as other people have pointed out, "working hard" is not limited to physical labor.

      Lawyers are self propagating. If you're being harassed by a lawyer, you need yourself another lawyer. Lawyers push for more and more complicated laws and interpretations, which in turn requires more lawyers to deal with the complications that arise.

      The CEOs in the U.S. get far, far more than the CEOs in any other country in the world.

    14. Re:grind it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is not the idea that they serve no purpose, it is that they get a disproportionate amount of money compared to say, a doctor.

    15. Re:grind it by manwargi · · Score: 1

      LVNs and other lower level nurses don't make much money at all. The ones that do are the supervisors and others with management positions.

  13. TFA dude needs to chill by RogueyWon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is it just me who reads TFA and things "this guy's just taken a basic intro-to-psychology course and is all excited thinking he can now explain the whole world"?

    If you like gaming, are able to financially support yourself and your gaming and can do so without ruining the rest of your life, then play whatever the hell you like.

    Also, the guy doesn't understand modern (Western) MMOs. These are MUCH less about grinding than is commonly considered to be the case. The level "grind" in World of Warcraft is so short as to barely merit the term. Going from 1-85 is best thought of as an extended tutorial where you learn how to play your class ahead of the real game, which begins at level 85.

    And once you're at level 85, the game is fundamentally skill based. On the PvP side, that's so obvious that I don't even need to explain it. On the PvE side, it perhaps deserves a slightly longer explanation of what the commonly perceived "gear grind" actually is.

    WoW's end-game PvE content is, over the course of each expansion, a series of co-operative challenges of increasing difficulty. The series starts with relatively short 5-man dungeons, which require fairly simple tactics. What then follows - released gradually via patches - is a series of challenges for larger groups (10 or 25 people) which require better reactions, better planning and more complicated tactics.

    It's a common misconception that the only difference between the bottom end raids in a WoW expansion and the top end raids is the gear requirement. Yes, you will need better gear to tackle the top-end raids, but this can essentially be thought of as a skill-check system. Before you can progress to the top end raid, you need to prove that you have the skill to defeat the easier, lower-end ones. If you don't have that, then you'll end up banging your head against a brick wall, no matter your gear level.

    So back when I was most deeply into the game, in the Burning Crusade era (1st expansion), the bottom end raid was Karazhan and the top end raid was Sunwell Plateau. Karazhan's bosses required fairly simple tactics, with generally just one or two mechanics that players needed to respond to during each fight. The difficulty increased substantially throughout the raid, culminating in a fairly tricky final boss. Said boss was, however, massively simpler than even the first boss in Sunwell Plateau, which required each player to keep track of a large number of factors at once, with any failure resulting in more or less instant death. Also, as you are level capped for this, the fights are not magically getting easier just because you put more time and effort in.

    So the attraction in modern, Western MMOs isn't the grind at all - it's about team-work and overcoming challenges co-operatively. Indeed, Western gaming in general has been remarkably successful in eliminating "the grind" - you don't tend to spend much time running in circles doing random encounters in a Bioware game, or one of the Witcher games.

    The grind does still live on in some Japanese gaming and in some Eastern MMOs - but that's likely just due to the conservatism of Japanese and Korean developers. It would be great if at some point during the next few years, a high profile Japanese RPG developer (perhaps Square) could take the step of eliminating grinding from its games.

    1. Re:TFA dude needs to chill by Exitar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Raiding Ice Crown or Dragon Soul for one year isn't considered grinding? Expecially in WotLK, when you could find yourself doing the same raid FOUR time a week (normal 10/25, heroic 10/25)? Kill Marrowgar 208 times in a year?
      "Hardcore" players try to justify themselves saying that raiding isn't grinding, but actually it is.

    2. Re:TFA dude needs to chill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most 'hardcore' players stop after a few runs. Its ironically 'casual' players that tends to spend far more time here, especially if one considers the time actually spent in the raids in question. A hardcore player does them in one evening, a casual? Several.

    3. Re:TFA dude needs to chill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, the guy doesn't understand modern (Western) MMOs. These are MUCH less about grinding than is commonly considered to be the case. The level "grind" in World of Warcraft is so short as to barely merit the term. Going from 1-85 is best thought of as an extended tutorial where you learn how to play your class ahead of the real game, which begins at level 85.

      Leveling is no longer much of a grind, no. But if you think gearing up isn't a grind, it's obviously been too long since you played. And each patch adds more to grind!

      And once you're at level 85, the game is fundamentally skill based. On the PvP side, that's so obvious that I don't even need to explain it.

      People want to think this, but all it takes is a quick look at the patch notes archive to see how much has changed, back and forth, down the years. Until the rulesets are separated between PvE and PvP, WoW PvP will never be anything more than a little fat kid showing the world how great he is when the odds are all stacked in his favor. This is part of the reason WoW was kicked out of MLG.

      On the PvE side, it perhaps deserves a slightly longer explanation of what the commonly perceived "gear grind" actually is.

      Here we are most in agreement, as I've recently rediscovered the joy of relaxing with a couple drinks after work with friends and going through some PvE encounters. However, I have several points on this:

      1. Keep in mind that once the raid is released on live, it only gets nerfed more and more from there, never buffed. The cumulative stacking buffs introduced in ICC are a good idea, but they definitely weaken your argument that raiding is some sort of ultimate challenge. They're just static AI scripts that are designed to be beaten and farmed.
      2. I find the biggest 'challenge' is often trying to figure out who it is in your group that is too drunk or high to step left, then right, then hit a button along with everyone else. Managing people is much more difficult than anything the game's raids throw at you; individual skill is so diluted in them that when you realize that some people are just bad at listening and following basic instructions it tends to sour your view of raids somewhat, particularly when you consider that this will (especially now in Cata and again in MoP if beta is any indication) can and will result in the death of the entire raid.
      3. The "tactics & strategies" required are easily looked up on youtube, and once you do it the exact same way 10 times no one wants to try anything remotely different. Then, after 100 times, everyone starts to get so bored they'll often try to wipe on purpose just to keep things interesting.
      4. You know that one item that you really, really need but it absolutely refuses to drop for months on end? Yes, the one that then dropped the one week you happened to be unavailable to raid? With all the other innovations WoW has introduced over the last 3 years I find it staggering that they still use this ancient, outdated RNG loot b*tch.

      You can't seriously argue that raiding's not a grind; raids are fun the first few times, then the above four points start to wear on you after awhile.

    4. Re:TFA dude needs to chill by RogueyWon · · Score: 1

      The reaction of most half-way decent guilds to the late stages of WotLK and Cataclysm has been to raid less, not to carry on grinding.

      My own guild, having been a hardcore 25 man guild for most of Cataclysm, is down to a single 10-man run of Dragon Soul Heroic each week (which takes around 3 hours). Note that this isn't to grind gear - it's just to make sure there's a core team of players still "in the game" to pick things up when the next expansion comes out.

    5. Re:TFA dude needs to chill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you looked at MMO encounters purely as a gear farm, sure it's a grind.

      But that to me is a small part of MMO's. I play for the social aspect of the games - co-op or pvp.
      When you play with other people, many unexpected things happen and those are the real gems that keep us coming back for more.
      Some events are good other bad but even the bad ones in retrospect are gems of hilarity.
      The expression "more, the merrier" couldn't be more true. I really do miss the 40 man days.

      As clear as yesterday, I remember the downing of ragnaros. After months of hard work, 40 people exploding on teamspeak jumping up and down, and me with a huge grin.
      Then there is that one WSG - you are carrying a flag. you need your enemy flag carrier in mid field. both are alone. I power up and hit him PoM pyro to the face and down him without breaking a stride. I non-chalantly return the dropped flag and carry on. When I get a tell "OMG YOU ARE GOD!!"

      So for people like me, I consider any single player games to be a real grind. For the same reason, I find leveling to be painful. Quests feel like homework.
      I really do not understand those folks who exclaim with delight "omg we get new quests!" uuugh

    6. Re:TFA dude needs to chill by ildon · · Score: 1

      Most high end raiding guilds only "grind" long enough to finish their sets or get their mounts or whatever, and then take a break until the next expansion. Only the bad players who can't finish the dungeons "grind" the parts they can complete until Blizzard nerfs the content enough for them to finish it.

  14. Yes! by zero.kalvin · · Score: 1

    I'm bored, that's why I play video games.

  15. Game to pass time. by Nyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I game to pass time. It helps winds down the time till I die. One of the games I play is Everquest II. You end up doing a lot of grinding in the game. But grinding for purpose, not because it makes my mind numb. I grind to level up toons, for a quest, or probably to get a rare item to drop. But grind because I think that is what life is about? No.

    Life is the grind. Does it make sense? No. Do you always get rewarded? No. Is it going to change? No. So is it so weird that we grind in a game for rewards? No, I don't think so.

    And who is to judge why people play games? Does it really matter? The games are for escape, we all find our own way to escape reality. So what if someone is making up for whatever from their day job in a game? As long as they aren't being abusive towards others, I think whatever they want to do is fine.

    The article? Stupid. I'm not even sure what the problem is. Apparently, if we play games where we do good, and in real life we are doing bad, the video games are bad for us. Because we are trying to get over are real life failures online.

    Here's my take. Dude is a gamer that is hitting middle age. He's think back on all his wasted time in life and what he's missed out on, and want to blame it on video games. yes, another person blaming Real Life on video games.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  16. Get Out of the Skinner Box by ideonexus · · Score: 1

    This article should be required reading for kids today. This is an issue I find myself wrestling with from time to time. I spent two years wasting time in Star Trek Online with the purpose of wasting that time. It was a pretty game and I decided this was where I was going to grind away in thoughtless leveling-up--and it was brainless, repetative nonsense. I basically voluntarily put myself in a Skinner Box, holding down the "fire" button while runing around for hundreds of hours in order to get that little hit of dopamine each virtual reward of experience points brought me. Finally, I decided it was time to just uninstall the damn thing and walk away from it incomplete (not that it could ever be completed).

    That one was voluntary, when Skyrim came along, I got sucked in again, playing heavily for several months before my family and job responsibilities forced me to shelve it for six months. I recently started it up again long enough to complete the main quest, and that felt like a chore. The months of not playing broke the spell, so that I didn't feel connected and invested in the rewards anymore. Why the @#$% would I spend hours saving to buy a virtual house or read a hundred vitual books about a virtual world when I've got the real thing to work on here? Skyrim was epically beautiful, but so is a weekend hike in the mountains.

    Gaming is an important, healthy activity. It increases mental alertness and improves reaction times. I think all kids should play video games--or rather, play the right kinds of video games. My new rule for games is no more "forever" games like MMORPGs and Skyrim. I'm currently looking for a new game, and the most important characteristic is that it that it take <=20 hours to complete. I'll pay $20 to see a two hour movie with my wife, so $50 enjoying 20 hours of Portal II is a bargain.

    --
    i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
    1. Re:Get Out of the Skinner Box by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I wont play skyrim, I remember the months wasted on Oblivion and the other rehashes called fallout 3 and it's expansion pack new vegas. Slyrim is nothing but a grindfest, In fact it's no different than Oblivion right down to the massive bugs you find everywhere. yes I tried it and have several friends sucked into that time waster.

      If they had a better storyline path that was actually HARD and required though to solve puzzles and tactics for battle other than ,stab,stab,stab,fireball,stab,stab,stab... I would be interested. But if you grind around until you are level 20 the story path is effortless. Oh ho hom, a big boss. Smack he is dead.... Yay more magical ebony armor... Throw it in the pile over there with the other 80 sets....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Get Out of the Skinner Box by Dunge · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't call Skyrim a "forever" game. Sure it have lots of content, but it's not like MMORPG. Each quest have dialogs, some story, something special to do. I actually completed the game to 100%.

    3. Re:Get Out of the Skinner Box by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Slyrim is nothing but a grindfest,

      Huh? You can grind in Oblivion and Skyrim, but what would be the point? The biggest flaw in both games is that all challenges are scaled to your level, so you never need to improve before battling anything or to start specific quests like you do in MMOs. In some ways this is good, in other ways, it makes getting better equipment and leveling up completely pointless, which makes both games unique among RPG by having completely pointless and thereby non-addictive, and non-interesting levelling mechanics.

    4. Re:Get Out of the Skinner Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gaming is an important, healthy activity. It increases mental alertness and improves reaction times.

      But, could you receive that same mental alertness and improved reaction time from doing something instead of gaming?

      Couldn't a fast paced recreational activity like tennis, baseball, basketball improve your reaction time? And the exercise should improve your mental alertness.

    5. Re:Get Out of the Skinner Box by ACE209 · · Score: 1

      The enemies in Skyrim aren't scaled to your level. This was only the case in Oblivion.

      --
      "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
    6. Re:Get Out of the Skinner Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not convinced that posting long rants on the Internet about your poor gaming experience instead of gaming for fun is better way of living.

    7. Re:Get Out of the Skinner Box by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      The enemies in Skyrim aren't scaled to your level. This was only the case in Oblivion.

      They are scaled to your level, not as much as they were in Oblivion, but more than they were in Fallout 3. Specifically enemies in Skyrim has level onsets (when you will first encounter them), and a scale bracket of levels where it follows the player (so that a common animal does not get scaled to level 50).

      Most quest have both the enemies scaled, sometimes that means different enemies, sometimes it means stronger versions of enemies, and in all cases the loot is scaled making it always rather useless.

  17. Sweet mother of Mitra!!!! by meglon · · Score: 1

    "....it's quite possible to play video games in a way that's detrimental."

    Say it ain't so!!1!1!!1

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  18. Maybe a different grinding analogy? by Zocalo · · Score: 1

    I definitely don't look on grinding as an aspect of gaming that has no real world analog. While the implementation varies from game to game, it can almost always be looked upon as akin to saving up for what you want, which definitely has real world parallels - especially if you equate things like optional side missions to volunteering for overtime and so on. Sure, you can 'grind' at a job for 10 years and still be laid off, to use the example given in the article, but you will still have been earning during those 10 years and will have probably put away some cash for stuff you wanted; cars, gadgets, a home, holidays, etc. Grinding in a game is no different, only the stuff that you are saving up for is more focused on the needs of the game world than real life; abilities, vehicles, weapons, etc., and just as in real life if you stop grinding for whatever reason then you are going to find it a little harder to acquire/retain those trinkets.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  19. Fear of failure? by Zibodiz · · Score: 2

    Are you playing games because you're having fun, or because you have an unconfronted fear of failure?

    Umm that's why I don't play games. Nothing says 'failure' like getting killed repeatedly in quick succession.

    1. Re:Fear of failure? by jeti · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... by twelve year olds

    2. Re:Fear of failure? by Dunge · · Score: 0

      In multiplayer maybe, but thinking like that for single player games is stupid. Most games are designed so five years old and grandma could complete them at easier difficulty.

    3. Re:Fear of failure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      .....while they curse and yell gleefully at you and call you a gay noob.

    4. Re:Fear of failure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Select the "easy" level if you're finding game so difficult. Of course, had you been specific rather than utterly vague, you'd have receive a wealth of tips and maybe why you're so poor at games.

    5. Re:Fear of failure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My least favorite part about Battlefield 3? THE OTHER PLAYERS. LOL.

      Wouldn't be so bad if I got to kill THEM once in a while.

      Some games are just not as fun when you don't have 20-30+ hours a week to practise.

      Please Dice, bring back bots for a singleplayer game... Was the best part about Battlefield 2.

  20. Another perspective... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's interesting to contrast articles like this one to the findings of people like Lynda Sharpe.

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/05/17/so-you-think-you-know-why-animals-play/

  21. Yes I am.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    I play mostly FPS games, and I get sheer enjoyment after a long day at work of blowing the heads off of the "enemy" Lately I have been getting extra joy out of doing it creatively.. Like falling off of a building directly behind the guy and shotgunning his legs off.

    It's very stress relieving and calming.....

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  22. Fun is not always it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If "fun" were the only motivation behind gaming we would be missing out on gems like Flower and Journey, those that support negative consequences would be missing out on Dark Souls (don't try to tell me dying is fun either, you rage and you hate it and you convince yourself it's worth it but it's not fun). IGN arrives at a conclusion contrary to what gamers have been trying to hammer home for about 10 years now: just like movies are not always fun, neither are video games. Gaming has just a wide an array of emotional consequence as movies and books do.

  23. No fun playing games anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm 28 now, and I'm finding I just don't get much enjoyment out of videogames anymore. I don't know if I'm depressed, or this is just part of getting older - but my mind just balks at the thought of spending many hours playing a game.

    Trouble is, I just don't know what to fill the void with now. I'd work on my software development hobbies, but most weekdays I just don't have the brainpower left after work.

    1. Re:No fun playing games anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hope this helps. Been there man. Nothing wrong with you.

      IMO, I'd say you're right about where I was at 27. I was single, successfully employed, living on my own in an apartment.. when I made the realization that gaming was such a waste of time. I couldn't force myself to pick up the controller anymore because my better judgement was saying, "Yeah, after 1 hour of gaming... what was accomplished?" and more importantly "Who cares?". Empty entertainment value, not 1 bit better than watching TV.

      I had the same thoughts of, why not spend that time working on development task? So I focused on trying to MAKE games, rather than play them. But even that seemed like a waste of time because I felt there were better pursuits out there. Probably, because I knew I could do it (my job is software development), it was just a matter of how long it would take. There was no challenge.

      After awhile, and some thinking, I figured out that the things that mean the most in life, the things that bring back the most reward... are usually also the most difficult for you to accomplish (The challenge!). Which meant doing things that had nothing/little to do with computers.

      I decided I would work on becoming MORE social, MORE active, and MORE well-rounded. I got into aquariums... african cichlids, I joined a co-ed softball league, I got back into music (playing)... anything BUT computers. It made all the difference in the world.

    2. Re:No fun playing games anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not part of getting older. You've probably correctly diagnosed your depression since something else didn't fill your gaming time.
      Talk to your doctor.

  24. I thought I'd seen it all by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    I thought I'd seen it all ... but a Sunway fanboi!

  25. It's like drinking or taking drugs. by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Slow news day, it seems, both at IGN and Slashdot.

    Gaming can be a fun past time, but if abused, it'll consume your life, much like drug or alcohol abuse.

    Nothing to see here.

  26. Shoot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There is no philosophy on playing 1st person shooting games...

    Kill other people, drink a beer while playing and reduce stress is enough to me.

  27. Re:because you have an unconfronted fear of failur by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

    Or because it is a better means of escapism than reading cod-psychology online?

    Or writing cod-psychology online.

  28. Grinding isn't always successful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can grind away in WoW all day and still not get anything, just like the job example. However in the real world, you now have 10 years of experience to put on a resume, unless of course you dicked around the whole time and treated it just like a daily grind. Maybe that's why you got laid off.

  29. Just replace the words where you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you grinding out a [paycheck] in [employment] because you're truly enjoying the experience, or are you doing it to replace missing feelings of self-worth that you don't want to confront? Do you revel in your [monetary] successes to avoid the uncomfortable internal dialogue regarding of your abandoned [other factor]? Are you [working] because you're having fun, or because you have an unconfronted fear of failure?

    1. Re:Just replace the words where you like by archen · · Score: 1

      According to the Article:

      The real world does not operate this way. You can 'grind' at a job for 10 years and still be laid off. You can 'grind' at your physical health your whole life but if you switch to an unhealthy lifestyle you will immediately begin losing this progress. .

      This is kind of BS really. Like you say, do you "grind" out a paycheck? How is that different than "grinding" out food? Why bother, you'll just get hungry again? Everything in the world can be taken away from you, that doesn't make all of life pointless. The key is to invest in "grinding" for the right things. This applies to things both virtual and real. If I spent 10 years building a replica model train world, it would look amazing. The fact that a tornado could destroy it doesn't invalidate the fact that I built it. Maybe I grind out 10 years in an online RPG, and then I have nothing to show for it. For some people, the memories and "good times" are enough. (Although I will agree that a lot of people stay on there due to addictive behaviors and don't appear to be enjoying themselves).

    2. Re:Just replace the words where you like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations, you've reached level 2. Now, the words put you in boxes.

  30. I'm Not Bitter by dodex1k · · Score: 2

    If someone really was using games to gain a sense of self-worth I don't think they want some smart-ass article diagnosing their problem. It's not even posing a solution. It just exposes people to a problem they might have and then leaves them in the cold.
    "Hey J. Random Gamer. Are you gaming to to hide from your own short comings? If you are, then that sucks for you. Avoiding social situations with games is a BAD thing. I bet you never thought of that, now did you? You should really get control of your life, like I did."
    I don't think this article is helping anyone.

  31. Gaming... by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 2

    I have a paycheck, a house to live in that is paid for, and no debt. I may not have a wife and kids but that isn't as big of a deal really since I'm surviving. I think my gaming is just fine.

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
    1. Re:Gaming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear genetic line: you are not surviving, you are dying.

    2. Re:Gaming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. I need to use that as the tag line for a movie.

  32. dark night by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Are you playing games because you're having fun, or because you have an unconfronted fear of failure?

    I play games because I fear death. I realize every time I play that's what I'm doing. For that short period, in the game, I am not an aging, fragile, cowardly creature balanced on a ledge surrounded by darkness, but for that short time, I am immortal, eternal. For that moment, my life has a shadow of meaning.

    I also play because I'm hoping to see Bayonetta's camel toe.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  33. Game genres are different by Dunge · · Score: 0

    This article is about World of Warcraft addict, and I totally agree with the fact that most WoW players don't gain any positive experience from it. It's just mindless zombie grinding and repeating the same action over hundreds and thousands of hours. I personally play single player campaign games, I love following the story to completion just as I would watching a movie and everything is always excellent. Each game I play is different (about 5-10h each) and I would never stop doing it for anything in the world. Unfortunately, it's only a small percentage of gamers that think like me.

  34. Finally someonein psychology101is paying attention by airishtiger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I found that the thing that kept me investing time into two types of games (fps and mmorpg) was the camaraderie of my clan and guild (respectively.) I was absolutely substituting my lack of friends in the real world with faceless avatars of the digital. When I came to this realization about 7 years ago, I almost completely quit playing games except for the occasional single player campaign. Since I've cut back, my life has blossomed in countless ways, I have a stable career, a girlfriend I always have time for, and a multitude of hobbies ranging from sleight of hand to martial arts, to sketching and foreign language, to writing fiction and beyond. There will be those who quickly dismiss this article. There will be those who claim the author has only taken one psychology class and thinks he knows everything. But I think a lot of you are just afraid to admit how much your personal gaming holds you back in life. There are countless arts to master in this world. Ancient traditions that hold wisdom and have been passed on through countless generations are all around you and ready to be learned. Maybe I was born in the wrong generation, who's to say? I just know that the accomplishments I've made in the 'real world' far outweigh anything I've done in the digital. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against video games but yes, people play them for the wrong reasons and they could be putting their real life time towards things like curing cancer. You want to master the art that is artificial? Say it to my face that this is your heart's desire and I will beat you until you decide it would be better to invest more time in self defense classes. (I tried to put a less than sign and a 3 here to make a heart but I couldn't get past the filter so just pretend this comment was lighthearted and we'll all get along)

  35. Oh boy... by dutchd00d · · Score: 1

    You have to have a reason to play games? And it has to be the right reason?

    Damn. All those wasted years, doing it wrong...

  36. Re:because you have an unconfronted fear of failur by Hatta · · Score: 1

    Is that anything like salmon neuroscience?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  37. I grind for love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am simply grinding away so that I can meet that beautiful Orc, get married, honeymoon in Orgrimmar and live happily ever after.

  38. Rocksmith by Bigbutt · · Score: 2

    I'm actually learning how to play guitar and bass guitar by "playing" Rocksmith. I took lessons for about 18 months to get a foundation and have now played almost 300 arrangements, some as many as 40 times to really learn it (most under 10 though). I find there are actually rewards when playing :)

    [John]

    --
    Shit better not happen!
  39. Re:Finally someonein psychology101is paying attent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I did the same as you, however it did not result in finding friends or a partner. It did free up my time to read more books though, but I suspect that this might become more unhealthy for the mind, as my social contact has been reduced over the years since I have stopped socializing in games online (by not playing them) and not managed to increase my real world socialization.

  40. ...or playing sport. by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

    An editorial at IGN discusses healthy (and unhealthy) ways to play football. The author says that while football is a perfectly legitimate hobby, it needs to be approached with moderation and an understanding of what you get out of playing. Without understanding your motivations and compulsions, it's quite possible to play football in a way that's detrimental

    Sports, especially modern ones, revolve around the principle that if you put the time in, you will be rewarded. Many sportsmen claim to not understand how anyone could put up with training in a sport. But training is comforting. Training tells us that, no matter what, if you keep training you'll become more powerful. ... The real world does not operate this way. You can 'train' at a job for 10 years and still be laid off. You can 'grind' at your physical health your whole life but if you switch to an unhealthy lifestyle you will immediately begin losing this progress. ... It's important for sportsmen to have mastery of their own mind. Are you training to be better at football because you're truly enjoying the experience, or are you doing it to replace missing feelings of self-worth that you don't want to confront? Do you revel in your sporting successes to avoid the uncomfortable internal dialogue regarding of your [insert any of the 100's of neuroses sportspeople suffer from]? Are you playing football because you're having fun, or because you have an unconfronted fear of failure?

    1. Re:...or playing sport. by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Didn't want to interfere with my above post by adding thoughts to the end of it.

      I've seen so many examples of superstar sports people being complete asses. It's so prevalent that it makes its way into almost EVERY american movie and/or TV show. you have the Jocks who bully the nerds. So many sports people have this hugely inflated ego, and you hear so many stories that they only did it to get their parents attention/affection or approval. So many of the mega stars were forced into it at a young age and know nothing else. I won't go into any detail about the physical risks of sport (the article is about the mental health aspects).

      The people who are professional competitive sports people have a really unhealthy attitude towards it. You see the looks on their faces when they lose. I recently was watching the Olympics and there were people with really angry/dejected looks on their faces for only getting a silver or bronze medal. How hung up on something can you get that when you are placed SECOND IN THE WORLD (-ish) at something, you are considered to have lost the race? Sure, there were lots of people too who were overjoyed with their silver medal, but so often I heard people describe it as "only" a silver.

      There's enough unhealthiness in sport to overshadow gaming 10 times over. Gaming, unfortunately is an easy target as it tends to be dominated by the non-jocks. Until someone can explain to me why gaming as a hobby is any worse than golf or snooker, then I'll ignore the advice they try to give me to give up my 'unhealthy' ways.

      And, BTW, you can 'train' at your job, it's called up-skilling. You add to your CV (resume) with everything you do at work. So you get laid off? You apply to another, with all the experience you gained in your last one. Also, if you REALLY grind at your work, you are less likely to get laid off.

    2. Re:...or playing sport. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until someone can explain to me why gaming as a hobby is any worse than golf or snooker, then I'll ignore the advice they try to give me to give up my 'unhealthy' ways.

      - Because the gaming we're talking about, involves zero exercise. Unless you stand/walk in place for the 3 hours you're on COD or WoW.
      - Because the gaming we're talking about, involves very little social aspects. Sorry, the relationships you make on the web, are not the same as having to deal with people in person.
      - Because if you tell me you you have a handicap below 20 in golf, I'll agree that takes skill and practice. But if you tell me you're on your 4th prestige in COD? That just takes time.
      - Because whether you like it or not, real life experiences > video game life experiences.

      And, BTW, you can 'train' at your job, it's called up-skilling. You add to your CV (resume) with everything you do at work. So you get laid off? You apply to another, with all the experience you gained in your last one. Also, if you REALLY grind at your work, you are less likely to get laid off.

      Except in real life, you REALLY grind for 10 years, you get laid off, the job market sucks, you don't get hired, you don't have money, you suffer, the people who rely upon you (your wife & kids) suffer. And this doesn't go away... there's no power button. You have to actually deal with the problem.

      In video game life, you don't like the odds? Don't like the outcome of that last mission? You died? Turn off the console and restart.

  41. Union work by operagost · · Score: 1

    If you're in a union, you can grind for 30 years and end up with a really good paying job and 78% of your last year's pay in annual pension payments.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  42. The grasshopper says "uh, no" by spopepro · · Score: 1

    The tag at the end of TFA says "Justin... thinks a lot about the role video games play in his life & in modern culture." I might suggest Justin read more, and think less. That does seem to be the issue with nearly all armchair philosophists. In this case, he might be well served by "The Grasshopper" by Bernard Suits. Then he might realize that most of what he just thought, and wrote and published, is bullshit, and things are much more complex. Then he can go back to thinking, but hopefully about some of the ideas as to the nature of work, gameplay, and life that the book raises.

  43. I think I'm good by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Last night in DDO I lit myself on fire with blue fire, turned into wraith mode, and floated around throwing banked pumpkin head grenades at unsuspecting players in the main area, calling myself the ghost of Halloween past. It caused some lols. :-P So I think I'm good.

  44. Competition and challenge factor by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

    I game for these so I'm able to exercise my brain on a regular basis. Sports competitions are a test of discipline, pain tolerance, and genetics, but don't require as much mental effort as do computer gaming and its predecessors like chess. Gaming is the opposite. Its the mental fulfillment I need to be happy, considering I unfortunately can't get that kind of mental exercise at work. Whether you challenge yourself through your career, your education, or your entertainment shouldn't matter as long as you are able to be a functioning member of society.

  45. Re:because you have an unconfronted fear of failur by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

    Call of Duty: Psychology? Dude, when then did that come out? Imagine, gunning down the bad guys *and* rooting out their deep-seated anxieties! (Which are mainly about you gunning them down, but whatcha gonna do?)

  46. It's all about your goal by Sectoid_Dev · · Score: 1

    I've known for awhile that I'm getting my fix of 'false accomplishments' playing games. I've always enjoyed empire building games, but that has fallen off over the years as I'm getting into my 40s and wondering what the hell happened to my 30s? Plus the games today suck, but that's a get off my lawn sentiment.

    Sometimes I just love killing zombies in L4D. I don't care about 'progressing' into the harder levels, I just want the thrill of killing zombies. OK, maybe I should strive for less than 5 friendly fire 'accidents' a game. Yeah that sounds like a good goal. Yeap I suck at multiplay, but I don't care -- I'm here to kill zombies.

  47. gaming by nischal360 · · Score: 0

    Yes

  48. Fear of Failure by BaldingByMicrosoft · · Score: 1

    The things that people pin on "fear of failure" really crack me up. Some people are better at some things than others, and running with your areas of expertise while eschewing others seems perfectly reasonable.

    And then so much of life is a roll of the bones anyway... Why aren't you playing the lottery? It must be your fear of failure...

  49. Good lord by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gaming is no different than sports, drinking, trivia, bar hopping, reading a book... Anything can be done for the right or wrong reasons... Everything is a form of escapism... Either from your job, your family, your problems, your whatever. It almost feels like the IGN editor is calling this out as something specific to gaming. Look at the bigger pattern... Everything we do (yes, even eatting and sleeping) can be done for the right or wrong reasons. *eye roll*

  50. Coleman disagrees with you by tepples · · Score: 1

    either to win in a dirty way (campers)

    Since when is finding and securing an advantageous position "dirty"?

    1. Re:Coleman disagrees with you by gman003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since when is finding and securing an advantageous position "dirty"?

      When it pisses me off, mainly.

      I'm not saying it's not a valid tactic. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it in competition, or even in a regular match. But it messes up my stress-vent "shoot everyone in the face" matches, so I just play against bots.

    2. Re:Coleman disagrees with you by Carrot007 · · Score: 1

      Since when is finding and securing an advantageous position "dirty"?

      Depends how you know it's an advantageos position I would have thought.

      If it is becuase you are that familier with the map then you have an unfair advantage over someone who only play casualy and does not.

      Oh for a truely random 3d map generator that does not just spout crap!

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      +----------------- | What is the question!
  51. Fuck you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the fuck asked you to psychoanalyze me? Go stick your head in a pig. After that, let the pig cut your head off with a chainsaw.

  52. Replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If, according to the post, you can grind away at a job for 10 years and achieve nothing, but grinding in a game gives you some sense of accomplishment, what's wrong with that?

    In the end, we are all dust in the wind - meaning our sense of satisfaction and accomplishment is more psychological that anything else. Who cares if it comes from your job or you have a lame job, but you get it while playing a game? It's all the same anyway once you are dead.

  53. How appropriate by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

    I am currently halfway through Secret of Mana
    It's quite relaxing to play through taking advantage of game mechanics to avoid unessential or boring grinding and enjoy the game play

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  54. As an admin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you can still call what you do 'work', you are doing it wrong.

  55. Agreed completely! by neminem · · Score: 1

    I started playing WoW a number of years ago, and at first, actually did have a lot of fun leveling, seeing all the sights and everything. But I quickly realized that the real fun was at endgame, and when I got there, I wasn't proven wrong. Raiding -was- a lot of fun. And every so often I'd decide I had some time to blow, and level another alt, which I also for the most part enjoyed.

    Then I noticed that they felt compelled periodically to introduce boring grindy crap even at levelcap, if you wanted to raid optimally. Daily dungeons for badges were bad enough, and the once-per-expansion crap with new faction rep, but when they introduced that ridiculous set of unlockable gear midway through this expansion (the stuff up in Firelands), that was the first sign of the end of WoW for me. When I got to the last step in the legendary staff quest, and realized it'd be about 3 months more of grinding the same Firelands bosses that no longer dropped anything even remotely useful to anyone, that was the final one. Ironically, I continued to show up every week for that grind, so our guild could get the achievement and the pet - wouldn't want to be a jerk about it - and after receiving the legendary staff... pretty much never logged in again. It's been a few months now, and I think my life is better for it.

  56. Grinding is not fun by Control-Z · · Score: 1

    There is nothing that I hate more than grinding, repetitive work towards a virtual goal that is ultimately meaningless. Maybe if I got paid $50 for finishing the game I'd be more motivated. I feel the same way about jigsaw puzzles, a company prints a nice glossy photo and cuts it into 500 pieces, and I'm supposed to feel fulfilled by putting it back together? It's a complete waste of time to me.

    To me games are about strategy, living vicariously, and the journey/experience. Nothing embodies that more than "sandbox" games. In Oblivion and Skyrim, I never did finish the main storyline, I just wandered and explored. GTA IV and Fallout 3 I finished, but there is still tons of fun in just wandering.

    I guess when I'm not wealthy and am tied down to a job I wander in virtual worlds because I can't in real life. Plus the virtual worlds have no real penalties for screwing up, so I can go punch a deer or steal a loaf of bread and no harm is done.

  57. Yes. by yurtinus · · Score: 1

    Next question?

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    +1 Disagree
    1. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you da man

  58. Re:because you have an unconfronted fear of failur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The summary immediately made me think of Cave Johnson.

    "I'm no psychologist, but that sounds like projection."

  59. Of course by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

    Who would stop Caesar troops from taking New Vegas, if not for me?

    --
    Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
  60. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One correction, not FPS. Descent is more like flight simulator. It's ok to use joystick, even recommended.

  61. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For stress relief better fight hordes of enemies like "Serious Sam". Just turn your brain off and watch them falling...

  62. GMA by tepples · · Score: 1

    I own a laptop; I'm typing this comment on one. But I've been told that trying to game on Intel integrated graphics makes you realize what GMA stands for: Graphics My Ass. I've also been told that most laptops lack a user-accessible slot for a discrete video card.

  63. Why not everyone brings a gaming PC by tepples · · Score: 1
    Anonymous Coward wrote:

    Your friends don't bring their gaming PC?

    Correct. Either they don't own their own PC yet (just a user account on a PC owned by the head of household), or the PC they own is not a gaming PC (e.g. Intel integrated graphics), or they happen not to carry their PCs everywhere they go (common for owners of desktop PCs).

  64. World of Warcraft by screwzloos · · Score: 1

    I started playing World of Warcraft on the day it came out: November 23, 2004. I was a sophomore in college at the time. Before I started playing, my grades were poor; I had no friends, no family, and I had never been in a relationship of any kind. I was underweight and sickly. I was becoming an alcoholic. I was asocial. I was severely depressed and sometimes even suicidal. I had nothing to look forward to and no will to live.

    Playing the game didn't change any of that, but the past eight years have gone by a little faster than the eight before it. I log in every night when I'm done with work, get drunk, and find something to grind until I can't keep my eyes open anymore.

    I play neither because I enjoy playing or because I have an unconfronted fear of failure. I play because I've accepted failure and am biding my time. Will things ever improve? Probably not. There will always be another game to play, though. I can take some comfort from that.

  65. I play to learn about my mothers social life. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She apperently has a lot of friends out there.

  66. But without games... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I'd end up having to design the ultimate virus and destroy all computing as we know it. So maybe it is a good thing that I'm leveling up in The Dead Zone and that gaming for the wrong reasons keeps me from doing those other bad things.

  67. Now that you put it like that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate my job. I hate myself. I'm going to walk the Appalachian Trail. How much are tickets to Brazil nowadays?

  68. Re:Finally someonein psychology101is paying attent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ugh, sleight of hand and fan fiction? You're a fucking monster. Please keep playing games kids, or you'll turn into a faggot.

  69. Re:Finally someonein psychology101is paying attent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tldr - He got older.

  70. Oh come off it... by Sydin · · Score: 1

    Are you watching TV for the right reasons? Are you listening to music for the right reasons? Stop trying to single out Video Games as some sort of demon media that needs to be "justified" in some bizarre way before it's an acceptable activity. I play games for entertainment and to relieve stress; the same reasons that the majority of Americans spend hours in front of their televisions every day. That's all the justification anybody needs, period.

  71. Obligatory EQ1 by Dracophile · · Score: 1

    what paycheck
    what employment
    what monetary
    what other factor
    what working
    You have died...returning you to bind point...

    --
    Athy, athier, athiest.
  72. No. by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    Why does the original author assume that everyone plays games?

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"