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In Wake of Samsung Verdict, HTC Does Not Intend To Settle

Taco Cowboy writes "The recent lost by Samsung in a court battle against Apple apparently does not put a dent to other parties determination to fight Apple, inside and outside of the court system HTC's Chairperson, Ms. Cher Wang, has publicly re-iterated her belief that the $1 billion jury verdict against Samsung in the U.S. 'does not mean the failure of the entire Google Android ecosystem.'"

24 of 286 comments (clear)

  1. How is it even possible to innovate these days? by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Putting aside the question of whether a company can patent stuff like a rectangle with rounded edges and other obvious design features, all these patent lawsuits of recent years have made me wonder how it's possible these days for any software or hardware startup to even get going. It seems almost a given that any company that comes up with any new idea or piece of software these days, and subsequently makes even a modicum of money off of it, is pretty much guaranteed to get hit by a slew of patent lawsuits, some perhaps from big-name companies with deep pockets and lots of lawyers.

    As someone who has thought about going into indie software development myself, this scares the hell out of me. I can't imagine investing a ton of time and money into some innovative new product, only to be drowned into bankruptcy by patent trolls and the software big guns who have quietly patented every obvious element of design and every trivial element of every bit of software and hardware (even those with with decades of clear prior art). I'm not sure I would even consider trying anymore without the investment of a big patent law firm just to protect me.

    --
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    1. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Tesla innovated just fine. He died crazy and poor while lesser men made themselves the gatekeepers to his creations and robbed the masses blind, sure... but he still innovated. Well, invented... innovation is the dumb-grunt work, really... but the principle is the same.

      Just because you're a slave doesn't mean you can't work.

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    2. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by DevotedSkeptic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree, the patent system is so broken it is only a new venue for attorneys to grow rich, while innovators and consumers suffer. What is even more disturbing and wrong is the ability to patent life forms, or even genes. Centers performing cutting edge cancer research cannot always have access to genes or genomes they wish to study because they are simply unable to afford the price of admission (licensing). It really is a sad state of affairs.

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    3. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by Merk42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nikola Tesla also died long before all this patent happy business the GP is talking about.

    4. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by MrDoh! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Know how you feel. I had a few voip ideas and at the moment, I can't find anyone actually with a product out that does what I had planned, but when looking at patents, it's a minefield. There's so many patents I could see as /almost/ being the same, methods of communicating type stuff, control channel, that if I did well, I'm sure there'd be a line of lawyers. Still, the lawyers I've spoken with are happy to start the ball rolling, and have recommendations on lawyers to hire WHEN I get sued. They know how the lay of the land is at the moment. I've given up. That slim chance to make enough money to pay for lawyers to fend off the others? Stuff it, not worth the headaches.

      --
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    5. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not possible to do anything really, if you're a small time independent. I wrote my own video and audio codecs, encryption algorithms, and distributed file transfer protocols, virtual machine, and put together a secure unified messaging / VOIP / File sharing system. It's basically in beta -- All the features work, and I'm just working out a few small scaling issues. I wrote every line of code myself. My "dependencies" are OpenGL, Pulse Audio, X11 or Win32 -- Basically, an OS, and low level audio / video APIs. I didn't implement anyone else's protocols or formats, and still the Software Patent Minefield prevents me from monetising or open sourcing the system. Fortunately this is a multi-year "free time" project that began as a bunch of smaller learning experiences, not my bread and butter. Eg: "I wonder how would one create a video codec?", I asked myself, then just did it -- The same for making compilers, interpreters, encryption, etc. (cipher block chaining can turn any one way hash into a two way cipher). Making new software isn't really hard at all; It doesn't take genius, just takes time.

      Due to the current patent laws I can't afford to publish my software (except to friends and relatives) -- A single lawsuit would be the end of me even though I've never looked at a technology related patent. If I open source the code, that just opens me up to patent trolls so they can try to find their exact way of doing something in my code, then sue me for retroactive "damages" caused -- Yes, even just my own personal use of the code I wrote myself can be considered infringing and thus "damaging".

      The messed up thing is that both Patent and Copyright in the USA were created for the express purpose of benefiting the society as a whole. Patents and Copyrights grant a monopoly over works for a limited period of time to incentivize creators to make their works open to the public.... Uhm, that falls flat on it's face when you consider that Open Source projects jump the gun -- They don't want the monopoly at all, and explicitly allow the public to benefit directly at the time of publication. So, since Free (libre) Open Source projects already meet the stated purposes of the patent & copyright laws, forfeiting the monopoly by choice, shouldn't they gain exemption from patent lawsuits to repay them? Ah, but then anyone could just implement a software patent and open source it, and the whole software patent market falls flat on it's face, see? Patents are stupid -- Any Artificial Scarcity of Information is stupid in the Information Age.

      The USA's forefathers didn't contemplate a market would exist in which people would create things explicitly for the public to use free of charge. The founders weren't perfect, that's why they allowed amendments... As it stands it's questionable whether one can even place something into the public domain as soon as its created (Automatic copyright + "It's free" + "Nope, changed my mind, its not free" == ??) We should be treating every law with deep suspicion and testing every law's effectiveness via the scientific method. Otherwise we're operating by untested hypotheses. We don't really know if patent or copyright laws are actually beneficial to society as a whole. I'm fed up and ready to do the experiment: Abolish patents.

      I say "not possible to do anything", but what I mean is anything of real importance. Making games is a less risky venture, so I'll try that on the side now.

    6. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nice .... so you can try, but you won't be allowed to actually succeed. The New American way?

    7. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by firex726 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They go after indie guys for precedent, then they turn around and use it as ammo for the case against the big guy.

      The big guys, can and will defend themselves, but it'll be harder for them, if you got a dozen cases supporting your claim.

      It's well worth it to spend and not recover $100k on a case against an indie, if it'll make the big guy pay our an extra $1m because of how strong your case is.

    8. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by Nadaka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And iPhone made a smartphone that looked and operated much like the preexisting tablet computers.

      Its a grid of icons above a bar with button(s) on it.

      Its obvious basic functionality, much of which has existed in some form for years or even decades.

      That isn't inventive or innovative.

    9. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by Wovel · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You clearly have little grasp of obviousness in an IP sense. There was a good story floating around a couple says ago. You should read it. What you think != what is.

    10. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by Artraze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At the end of the 19th century there were a total of about 650,000 patents granted. Now there are over 8,000,000. There's a bit of a difference. Moreover, may of those patent battles were over fairly significant innovations, or at least ones which would require a fair about of investment in terms of time and money to use. Are we seriously comparing pinch-zoom to a sewing machine? Something that requires a day of effort at best and can be rolled out in under a week to something that one builds a manufacturing facility around? It'd barely be the equivalent of using different colors on some knobs on the sewing machine, in terms of relevance to the overall device/complexity. It's something that is _only_ worth patenting to use as a part of an attack portfolio.

      And while that's not to say that _never_ happened a hundred years ago (because occasionally it did), these days it's standard operating procedure. I have to side with the OP. This is a different world.

    11. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by PortHaven · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Let's see...how the Apple's New Clothes look (naked).

      Rectangle with rounded corners - done before.
      Grid of app icons - done before
      w/lower set of icons - done before (granted, they were reduced in size to allow more than four)
      edge to edge glass - pretty much done before as much as the technology allows
      black or white with chrome borders - done before as well

      So essentially, Apple bought a dress at Walmart and is suing everyone else for owning the rights to it. And dammit, right now I want to go to Home Depot, buy a couple cans of paint. Walk into an Apple store and "vwalla...let Apple know what I think of their dress lawsuit"

    12. Re:How is it even possible to innovate these days? by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Apple owns the identity of the iPhone.

      No they don't. This is a pro-corporate fantasy. What's worse is that you are pushing it based on brand association on par with a sports fan identifying with some team of professionals despite being a couch potato spectator.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  2. There's a reason Android is popular by neokushan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And it's not because they're like "Cheap iPhone knock-offs".

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    1. Re:There's a reason Android is popular by OoberMick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is it then? Is it because it's an ad supported way for google to deliver ads to more people? I hope google dies. I do not want to see an ad supported future for the internet.

      So what instead? Pay to visit sites? Or are you expecting sites to run on fairy dust?

    2. Re:There's a reason Android is popular by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What is it then?

      It's a phone and tablet operating system that works better than iOS, and on more devices. That's why more people buy it.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    3. Re:There's a reason Android is popular by BMOC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would this be like someone in the 18th century complaining about newspapers supporting themselves with advertisements because they don't want to see an ad-supported future for mass media?

      --
      I swear they give me mod points to shut me up.
  3. Never give in to extortion by sa666u · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course they won't settle. One should never negotiate with terrorists.

  4. Apple vs. Samsung not Apple vs. Android by alphax45 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course it doesn't. Apple was after Samsung for the phone (hardware) and touchwiz (interface) components that were "copied". They are not interested in fighting Android (Google); yet....

    --
    K Man
  5. HTC isn't Samsung by gnasher719 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you put HTC phones, iPhone, and certain (not all) Samsung phones side by side, the HTC ones are the ones that look different. Which means Apple won't succeed, and won't try to succeed, with charges related to design patents. On the other hand, the different looks may also be the reason or part of the reason why Samsung is selling more phones right now than HTC.

  6. Blatant Abuse of the Patent System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    It's pretty well accepted that the patent system, in its current form, is completely dysfunctional. Apple has been blatantly abusing this system for years. Recently, their reduced innovation and eroding market share have led to increased lawsuits -- they've been holding these cards for a rainy day. There is a real issue in this country where literal interpretation trumps common sense in the eyes of the law and that needs to be rectified. Could you imagine if people actually read and literally interpreted the entire bible? People might actually start to realize what a farce religion is as well. How about people thinking the second amendment should give everybody the right to go to their local sports store and purchase an assault rifle? I'm all for the second amendment, but no document should ever trump common sense - these weapons didn't even exist when the second amendment was written! Why was a jury even involved in this Apple vs Samsung dispute if the decision was solely based on blindly following the rules of a terrible, dated system that should no longer apply in this industry? As long as people in this country continue to ignore common sense, progress and innovation will continue to slow to a crawl. Apple sees the writing on the wall and they're hitting the panic-button. While nobody can blame them for what they're doing, we can blame the patent system and the entire process that goes with it that allows them the ability to bully competition and kill innovation.

  7. Apple is the bad guy. by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been following this since day one, and I gota say, Apple comes out looking like the bad guy every time. Litigate > innovate in Apple's eyes. Always has been. Remember the Apple clones? Every card carrying geek here knows that Apple "borrowed" a vast majority of the iPhone's functionality from smart phones that existed 5-7 years before the first iPhone. That Apple suing because they were "copied" is utterly ridiculous, at least to people who watched the smart phone race from the beginning. Only the uninitiated find any validity to Apple's arguments.

    And Apple, you feel people are being deceived into buying non Apple products? You who deceive people into buying Apple products with deceptive ads, demagoguery and appealing to people's ignorance about technology? How long ago was it that you claimed the Power PC was better than the Intel chip you now sport? Where did the in house Apple benchmarks go that supported your wild claims that the Mac was faster than the PC. It wasn't that long ago that you changed the meaning of PC (oh that's a workstation, not a PC) so you could falsely claim that your computers were better than any PC running any OS. Deceived indeed. Your empire is built upon deception, hardware lock-in and lack of freedom for consumers.

  8. Re:Pyrrhic victory for Apple ? by Xest · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Problem is, Samsung still owns important patents on those modern displays, so if LG makes them for Apple instead, Samsung can just makes sure it increases licensing costs on those patents.

    The issue is that even if you find a manufacturer to manufacture alternatives to Samsung that in all likelihood:

    - Samsung still produces the core components you need to manufacture the technology

    and/or:

    - Samsung has patents on the technology you are producing

    When you're producing a device that makes use of so many different wireless technologies, modern displays, audio, battery powered, cameras and so on and so forth, it's almost a certainty that you can't write Samsung out of the equation completely.

  9. The trial was botched by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The jury did not seem to think objectively [1] and also appear swayed by the foreman who seems to have gotten away with throwing out the biggest piece of evidence in Samsung's defense[2]. I was surprised that the trial went as it did, handled by a judge with very little experience[3], considering the future of the mobile industry was riding on it. "Rounded corners and Rectangular design"? Righ, Apple, you might as well be suing everyone in the industry becuase I can't find a device that _doesn't_ infringe on that. Apple went after Samsung because it's their biggest competitor.

    [1] http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012082510525390
    [2] http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120828225612963
    [3] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57497096-37/apple-v-samsung-why-is-judge-koh-so-angry/

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