BBC Keeps Android Flash Alive In the UK

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BBC Keeps Android Flash Alive In the UK

Posted by timothy on Friday August 31, 2012 @09:41PM from the media-as-well-as-the-media dept.

judgecorp writes "Although Adobe wants to can mobile Flash, the Android Flash app has returned to the Google Play store in the UK after disappearing earlier this month. It has come back because of pressure from large organisations, in particular the BBC, whose popular iPlayer video on demand service uses Flash. The Android app is back, apparently for as long as it takes the BBC to move to HTML5."

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Re:But not for 4.1 by novajitz · 2012-08-31 21:54 · Score: 4, Funny

.. And that's why we need the BBC and thats why I'm happy to pay the license fee.
Get rid of it by thetoadwarrior · 2012-08-31 21:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's obvious the BBC crapped their pants over this but that is what they get for using a proprietary solution. They need to focus on not being cheap and rewriting it in something else.
1. Re:Get rid of it by dwkns · 2012-08-31 22:09 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Crap them they did.
  The BBC bet their house on Flash. Their entire internet video delivery strategy relied on it. Not only the iPlayer and the various mobile apps but also the interface in what has become YouView the common IPTV platform they helped develop.
  Much back peddling and redevelopment had to be done and is still going on now. All on the licence payers dime.
2. Re:Get rid of it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-31 22:56 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  This is the BBC - their license payers don't use dimes.
3. Re:Get rid of it by Yvanhoe · 2012-08-31 23:03 · Score: 2
  
  Hear! Hear! Choose proprietary today : get bitten in the ass in ten years. And worse : you'll give these OSS hippies something to brag about. So chose wisely, and chose open technologies from day one.
  
  --
  The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
4. Re:Get rid of it by itsdapead · 2012-08-31 23:13 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Yes, because when iPlayer launched back in 2007 everybody had a HTML5-compliant browser that supported a common video format... Oh wait, they didn't... and they still don't... Perhaps they should have tried RealPlayer instead...?
  Their silly insistance on Flash has meant that the iPlayer is only available on a limited handful of platforms (including PC, Mac, most new smart TVs TV, most half-decent PVRs...)
  Since flash video is a wrapper on a weird, unknown standard called "H264" that nobody else uses, they've been unable to support the most popular mobile platforms such as iOS (the perfectly good iPlayer app on my iPad is clearly just a result of the hallucinogenic drugs with which Apple impregnate their packaging). It's quite clear that the BBC should have gone for "webm" (even though it didn't exist at the time) because everybody uses Firefox.
  Everybody derided the introduction of Flash Player on Android when it was launched, with even Fandroids accepting that the lack of Flash on iOS was a good thing. The BBC should have known this and not relied on it.
  (At least, with Flash support removed from Android we can go back to the "Flash = spawn of Satan" meme without having to simultaneously believe that "Flash = essential tool for browsing the web").
  
  --
  In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
5. Re:Get rid of it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-31 23:33 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  What else should they have used?
  The Dutch broadcasters chose to use Silverlight. That is an even bigger disaster.
  At least in Flash there is some compatability and cross-platform availability, aside from the mobile platforms who seem to want to kill it.
  But Silverlight is only available on Microsoft Windows.
  (don't talk about Moonlight, the apps they use don't work in Moonlight, only in Silverlight)
6. Re:Get rid of it by TheRaven64 · 2012-09-01 00:29 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  They should have used open formats in open container files and made playback the client's problem. They should have remembered that their charter is to provide entertainment and information to the people of the UK, not to the subset that some third-party company decides are important. If the BBC had decided to broadcast TV in a format that required you to buy your TV from, for example, Samsung, then they'd have had the regulator slap them into oblivion, but somehow they get a free pass for doing the same thing on the Internet.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
7. Re:Get rid of it by itsdapead · 2012-09-01 00:58 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Or they could have just made .mp4 files available for playback.
  Yes, in a parallel universe where the BBC didn't have contracts with studios and artists to uphold, didn't have the obligation to raise money from international sales and didn't have Big Media Interests pouncing on any and every opportunity of accusing them of anticompetitive behaviour. Then they wouldn't have had to worry about bloody DRM and could give away .mp4s. Actually, in that universe they could probably have used Ogg. Also, note, that universe is populated entirely by techies who are happy to download a .mp4 from a list of files (then probably run it through ffmpeg to optimise it for their homebrew Linux media centre) and aren't remotely interested in having a nice UI that lets them browse programmes, stream live TV etc.
  That would be a nice universe to live in. Maybe the BBC can have Doctor Who visit it sometime.
  
  --
  In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
8. Re:Get rid of it by TheRaven64 · 2012-09-01 01:01 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Their charter would be better served by publishing the stuff that they do have the rights to (i.e. in-house productions) and refusing to sign distribution contracts in the future that didn't meet their requirements.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
9. Re:Get rid of it by itsdapead · 2012-09-01 01:15 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not sure whether that jibe about RealPlayer was serious or not, but the BBC have been using RealPlayer streams for radio services almost ever since they started putting shows online.
  Perfectly serious. When they started streaming radio, RealPlayer was the only game in town - lots of people had it installed (and it was OK to start with until Real realised it didn't have an income stream, made it almost impossible to find the free player on their site and started pushing ads and bloatware). When they started iPlayer the vast majority of browsers already had Flash Player installed.
  I believe that the BBC did start work on their own Codec (Dirac) but whatever you favourite conspiracy theory about why that never happened, the least hypothesis is that they looked at the cost of writing and maintaining player software for all available platforms and it didn't add up. Especially since the boom in mobile devices (mostly after iPlayer started) means that (a) there are more platforms to support and (b) mobiles don't all have the grunt to run software codecs - you really need to use the formats that they have hardware support for.
  
  --
  In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
10. Re:Get rid of it by deains · 2012-09-01 01:19 · Score: 2
  
  Unfortunately it's kinda tricky to focus on not being cheap when your budget is repeatedly cut, despite viewing figures and general approval going up. This is why we can't have nice things.
11. Re:Get rid of it by Anne+Thwacks · 2012-09-01 02:48 · Score: 2
  
  Please, please - where can I get a smartphone that runs OpenBSD-on-VAX? (With Gnome-2)
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
12. Re:Get rid of it by aliquis · 2012-09-01 04:03 · Score: 2
  
  Quicktime is(was..) the standard!
13. Re:Get rid of it by aliquis · 2012-09-01 04:07 · Score: 2
  
  Seriously. I see what you did here but the biggest show stopper for HTML5 in Firefox?
  DAMN FUCKING AUTO-PLAY!
  Where's HTML video block?!
  Who think auto-play is a good idea?
  Why is web pages allowed to start the video?
  Just because I open a web page or 10 I don't want to play all the fucking video they contain.
  (Yeah I know there's some solution you can install if you run the debug or whatever version of Firefox it is but normal people don't use that.)
  Of course it's just as bad in any browser which play that shit by default. Bloat web crap.
Re:But not for 4.1 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-31 22:26 · Score: 5, Informative

all the things that the BBC iPlayer can currently do
Such as what? The BBC seemed well aware HTML5 was the way forward 4 years ago.
Why is this even an issue for the BBC? by GordonBX · 2012-08-31 22:50 · Score: 4, Interesting

iPlayer works just fine on my iPhone & iPad and the recent Olympics app streamed up to 24 channels of video live. Seems to me the BBC could do just fine without Flash so why the big problem?
1. Re:Why is this even an issue for the BBC? by MLCT · 2012-08-31 23:41 · Score: 2
  
  They are coding an HTML5 version for android, but that takes time, and QA for an application that millions will download and use really matters. It would be a very bad idea to release a buggy HTML5 application.
  
  Since Adobe have behaved like a bunch of amateurs on flash for android (bin a framework on a whim without any sort of reasonable migration framework over a sensible amount of time), everyone else is playing catchup.
  
  The BBC are coding a new android application, but they don't have 10's of developers that they can just deploy to recode something in a week or two. This extension will be just for a month or so until they can transition with a stable player. The situation reflects badly on Adobe for dropping support in such a shoddy manner.
2. Re:Why is this even an issue for the BBC? by cyber-vandal · 2012-09-01 03:16 · Score: 2
  
  Because on an open platform like Android the filthy pirates would have a field day. iOS, being designed to prevent users from using their computer in ways inconvenient to Apple and other large corporations, is much more suited to preventing people taking advantage of HTML5's inconvenient lack of DRM.
3. Re:Why is this even an issue for the BBC? by Blue+Stone · 2012-09-01 07:16 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, iOS deviced have DRM in the hardware, so the Beeb can stream to those devices knowing that license holders will be happy. Android doesn't have that DRM built in so license holders fear pircay will result.
  So, to watch BBC programmes on my Android device, because the Beeb won't run a non-flash version on Android, I'm forced to pirate their programmes (which is easy as pie). Erm ...
  Hang on ... I must've got something wrong ....
  Oh ... nope ... just a whole lot of piracy/DRM bollocks achieving absolutely nothing other than inconveniencing the customer (license fee payer using Android).
  Same old, same old.
  
  --
  Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Here's my fix by awjr · 2012-08-31 23:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's a pain but you can get around it. You need to use the xscope browser and the flash apk. Works a treat on BBC and Channel 4 OD . Video I made about how to do it on a Nexus here. Should work with other 4.1 devices.
Personally this really sucks. The internet is playing catch-up to a forced move away from a technology. It's not that the device cannot run flash, just made it slightly annoying. Google's decision not to put it into Chrome is annoying at most :(
Re:But not for 4.1 by ninjacheeseburger · 2012-08-31 23:09 · Score: 2

There was an unofficial iplayer app for android which did not require flash, unfortunately it got banned. From what I heard flash is used because of DRM.
Remember the original rationale for Flash by Squiff · 2012-09-01 01:08 · Score: 2

The BBC originally based their iPlayer software around windows media player and were heavily criticised at the time for using a solution that blocked non-windows platforms, including Apple, mobile and Linux. This was principally because they wanted to DRM all of the downloaded files in the interests of 'rights holders', i.e. BBC worldwide (their commercial arm). This includes automatically deleting files after a certain time from your computer amongst other things. They were ordered by the BBC commission (basically their governors) to come up with a cross-platform solution pronto and chose Flash as it covered a wide enough range of devices to get them off the hook in a hurry- bear in mind that iPlayer apps are also available for Windows Mobile; Symbian; Nintendo Wii; xBox 360; Sony PS3 etc. which can all use Flash. There have been third party solutions that made content accessible beautifully and they have all been removed due to pressure from the BBC due to 'concerns from rightsholders', i.e. sidestepping DRM. The issue is not with finding a cross-platform codec or software, the problem is the BBC wanting a cross-platform DRM in a diverse technology environment. This is why they are having to build and support all these different apps and are crapping it about Flash going away.
Re:But not for 4.1 by StripedCow · 2012-09-01 01:32 · Score: 4, Informative

About the only thing Flash can do and HTML5 cannot do is DRM.

--
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.