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Government Lawyer Says Patent Trolls Are a 'Concern'

New submitter gale the simple writes "While it is fairly common for the jaded and cynical to ride on the lawyers these days (often including Henry VI's famous line about them), every now and then we can see that they are not always the plague and scourge of the earth. EFF again shows that even lawyers can do good in this world. (PDF) All jokes aside, something seems to have moved. Maybe all that bloodletting between the major corporations (Apple vs Samsung) made the leaders recognize that MAD world of patents might not be very stable." From the EFF: "The Congressional Research Service (CRS), the research division of Congress known for its objective studies, recently released a report on the effects of patent trolls on innovation and the economy. ... According to the CRS report, 'The vast majority of defendants settle because patent litigation is risky, disruptive, and expensive, regardless of the merits; and many [patent trolls] set royalty demands strategically well below litigation costs to make the business decision to settle an obvious one.' Businesses lose both time and money, and innovation suffers."

18 of 91 comments (clear)

  1. not quite MAD by jythie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    MAD only works because everyone dies, no one profits. The patent situation is almost an inverse MAD... the worse things get the more profit there is to be made and the more risk there is to not playing the game. Any public company basically has to behave this way, otherwise their shareholders will string them up or one of their competitors will become more profitable because they ARE playing.

    1. Re:not quite MAD by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you are 100% correct. I still remember from some years ago where RIM went to court rather than settle with some infamous patent troll and they got hit with a staggering judgement in a jury trial. I think it was at least 5 times what the troll wanted to settle out of court. Being an American and having served on juries, I can tell you that most people on juries are pretty dumb and incapable of understanding the issues they are presented with. You really don't want to risk that some crazy jury will award 10x or more in damages what it will cost you to settle. RIM thought they could win too and that the patent would be invalid but they lost. To me, that was when things began to go wrong for them. They shrugged it off, but I see their downward slide beginning at that very moment. Nobody wants to go to court and roll the dice with the chance that a company killing judgement might be the outcome.

    2. Re:not quite MAD by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think the other key to MAD is that the barriers of entry are very high, so only those with a lot to lose get to play the game.

      If you're already the ruler of Elbonia and you have gold-plated toilets, then do you really want to start shooting nukes at the USA?

      The problem with patents is that anybody can get one of those trivial ones without building anything. If I have $10k to my name and can afford a $35 filing fee at the courthouse, and I get a patent for phones with microphones in them, why wouldn't I take a shot at the lottery?

      The other key to mad is the "assured destruction" bit - as in fire it and you're GUARANTEED to be toast. Google and Apple are still in business, the last time I checked. They have a lot to lose, but don't think that the threat of actually losing it all is credible.

    3. Re:not quite MAD by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can tell you that most people on juries are pretty dumb and incapable of understanding the issues they are presented with.

      Part of the issue is it's supposed to be a 'jury of your peers.' So if the trial concerns a complicated technology issue, then the jury should be highly skilled technologists - Those are the plaintiff and defendant's 'peers,' not some guy who sells ABS pipe at Home Depot.

    4. Re:not quite MAD by CaptSlaq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can tell you that most people on juries are pretty dumb and incapable of understanding the issues they are presented with.

      Part of the issue is it's supposed to be a 'jury of your peers.' So if the trial concerns a complicated technology issue, then the jury should be highly skilled technologists - Those are the plaintiff and defendant's 'peers,' not some guy who sells ABS pipe at Home Depot.

      I used to hold this belief, until someone pointed out (here) that having "professional juries" is potentially a dangerous thing. Working in industry [x], you know that [y] happens even if it's TECHNICALLY not supposed to. You've done it yourself because you understood the risks and in your case it wasn't a huge deal. Now [y] blows up in someone's face causing [z] and the professional jury comes to the point of "well, we all do it so we'll let him off, despite the fact that it caused [z] with the results of [a], [b]. and [c]".

      I agree that there are problems, particularly in highly technical cases, that are not easy to articulate. If the lawyers involved can't bring it down to a level that the common man can understand it, they don't understand the problem properly either.

    5. Re:not quite MAD by Stuntmonkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a Prisoner's Dilemma game: Everyone would be better off if nobody engaged in the bad behaviors (patent trolling, patenting trivial "innovations"), but unfortunately it's to everyone's unilateral advantage to engage in those behaviors.

  2. Applause please.. by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sure, this report may say that current patent law stifles innovation, but that is a long, long way from rewriting the law. In my cynical view thes report will get shelved, and if any legislation does occur, the large corporations and lobbies with an interest in maintaining the status quo will line enough pockets to make sure it fails or gets watered down and altered enough to suit their needs. Remember entrenched power, money, and "it will hurt the economy to change", trump common sense and innovation.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  3. Patent trolls.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Last night my wife was commenting that the guy who wrote 'Modernist Cuisine' had a new book coming out aimed at non-professional chefs..

    I said "Isn't that the one by Nathan Myhrvold?" "Yeah, how'd you know?" "You know who he is, right?" "Well, he's a french chef who likes liquid nitrogen." "He owns Intellectual Ventures."

    "Oh my god, he's a fucking patent troll!" "King of the patent trolls, dear." "Can I just pretend he isn't and buy the book?"

  4. Government == Big Tech by EasyTarget · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Humm, so the government (and therefore it's industrial masters) have now decided that patent trolls must go. I somehow doubt if this will benefit us one bit.

    Most likely planned end scenario (still years of lobbying away) is that large tech firms will be allowed to 'take over' patents of anyone who lacks the resource to fight them.

      A few of the bigger patent farmers might well survive this, but the wannabees will go under. Unfortunately, so will any real engineer with a genuinely good idea they have patented.

    --
    "Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
  5. Patent violation by puddingebola · · Score: 5, Funny

    This story has been filed in violation of my patent on Patent Troll stories posted to Web Sites, patent no. 7640598 D607176 PP20622 RE41067 H002234. I am requesting $5.40 to cover my Veggie Sub at subway for lunch.

  6. Famous Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    For those of you unfamiliar with Shakesphere:

    In Act IV, Scene 2 of Henry VI Part 2, Dick says "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

  7. Henry VI's famous line about them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I thought the point of Henry VI's famous line about them was that to take over and trample on people's rights, first you have to get rid of the lawyers.

    1. Re:Henry VI's famous line about them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I thought the point of Henry VI's famous line about them was that to take over and trample on people's rights, first you have to get rid of the lawyers.

      No, take some time to read this: http://www.spectacle.org/797/finkel.html . In context, it was clearly bashing lawyers, in part for the way they were hired by the wealthy to prey upon the uneducated who could not understand the contracts they entered into. (And could not afford a lawyer to read and explain them!)

      SB

  8. Why the Apple v Samsung mention? by the+computer+guy+nex · · Score: 5, Informative

    Both companies bring products to market, so by definition they are not patent trolls.

    Oh wait, mentioning iOS vs Android results in clicks!!

    Continue on.

  9. Nothing has "moved" by guttentag · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are many "good" objective people who work for the government and submit reports to Congress (lawyers, scientists, accountants... Even IRS agents), however, it is important to understand that "objective people" do not make decisions for congress. They are not the "leaders" that the submitter is calling them and they have no power. The "leaders" are the representatives and senators, whose job is to cherry pick the reports for facts/out-of-context-statements that agree with their opinions. This has been going on for quite some time... After all, Benjamin Franklin wrote of the three degrees of lies, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

  10. The biggest troll is the USPTO itself. by denis-The-menace · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It too profitable accept any patent, prior art or not.
    -The USPTO get fees paid for every submission
    -If the patent is invalidated, the USPTO is not affected in any way.
    -The USPTO has a monopoly on the situation.

    Whenever you have a business doing something that the government should be doing you get issues like this. (e.g. The Fed, Private Prisons, etc.)

    Oh, the USPTO *is* part of the government?
    It sure doesn't act like it.
    http://www.longest.com/2011/05/11/federal-government-slows-innovation-on-intentionally/

    --
    Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
  11. Prosecutors do the same to get defendants to plead by schwit1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Prosecutor says he will go for the maximum sentence if you don't take his deal.

  12. Re:Make them pay. by SecurityGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This gets trotted out fairly often. The counter argument is this:

    You (John Q. Public) create something actually innovative and legitimately patentable, and do so.
    So does Apple, or Google, or any other huge company.
    You realize they're using your invention, so ask them to pay you for it. They say no. Litigation ensues.
    You spend a few thousand on your brother Vinny's legal services. They trot out a crack stable of lawyers at $300/hour/lawyer. They do a tremendous amount of analysis and preparation before their slam dunk victory.
    You get stuck with a $500,000 bill because they bought better lawyers than you did.

    In short, a system like this is massively disadvantageous to the little guy. Loser pays for frivolous lawsuits? Perhaps. Merely for losing? No.