Patent Troll Sues X-Plane

symbolset writes "X-plane is a cross-platform flight simulator app, notably the only serious one that supports Mac OSX and Linux. It was the first to include NASA data in their terrain modelling. It's now under threat by an NPE (Non-Practicing Entity) called Uniloc. Uniloc is suing for things X-Plane has done for decades. X-plane cannot afford to defend this suit, so if somebody doesn't step up and defend them then we lose X-plane forever. Quoting: 'I have spoken to a lawyer about this, and I am told that it will cost me about $1,500,000 (one and a half million dollars) to defend this suit. He also told me that it should take about two to three years to defend. This is more money than I have made selling Android Apps in the first place.'"

Comments

Errrm what?

[Plumpaquatsch]

Where did "selling Android Apps" enter the picture? Turns out the patent has nothing to do with "things X-Plane has done for decades". Couldn't the editors have checked that?

Re:Errrm what?

[icebike]

Where did "selling Android Apps" enter the picture? Turns out the patent has nothing to do with "things X-Plane has done for decades". Couldn't the editors have checked that?

It enters into the picture because x-Plain is using a standard Android API developed by Google and shipped with Android to check if the user bought the package before allowing it to be used.

This pretty much means Google is going to go after the Troll since the patents cited have plenty of prior art that the patent office overlooked.

The editors could have checked for this, but quite frankly you could have clicked a link an RTFA.

Re:Errrm what?

[Score Whore]

Actually he says he does have that kind of money:

(Note: I have enough money to defend thus suit all the way through trial without it being a severe financial hardship, so please do not give if it is a hardship for you. But, if you would like to make a contribution to help with the cause because you want to help stop people like this, then it will surely be appreciated!)

And it sounds like not only does have have that kind of money, but he has lots more too.

Re:Errrm what?

[idontgno]

The summary is, as usually, fairly terribad.

The patent (filed 2001, granted 2005) is for remote license checking. This, you may surmise, is ancient technology. It's ubiquitous technology. It's an egregiously bad candidate for a patent (in my non-lawyer opinion). But, there it is.

The "decades" part has nothing explicit to do with X-Plane, or with the Android license checking API. It has entirely to do with the fact that remote license checking has been done for decades, not that X-Plane has been doing it for decades.

Way to misinterpret TFA when constructing the summary, Original Submitter. (Assuming Editor didn't botch the summary and make it look like they're quoting the Submitter's pristine words.)

I love this place. It makes "finding the real story" into a bizarre and almost-entertaining "Where's Waldo" game.

Re:Errrm what?

[jhoegl]

Oh, this must be that trickle down economics I hear so much about
"Hey everyone, Im rich, but I need help defending the thing you all love because I dont really wanna pay for it."
Wait, what?

Re:Errrm what?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... he got sued because his proprietary software's DRM system infringes a troll's patent on DRM systems?

He's the lesser of two evils. I hope he wins, but it's hard to give a crap, really.

If he wins, a patent troll is defeated, which is good.
If he loses, DRM becomes harder to do, because of the patent, which is also good.
Either way, money changes hands from two asshats to their lawyers, who, quite likely are equally asshats, which is thus neutral.

Re:Errrm what?

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be nice if Google actually went after this troll; however, this troll obviously knows they're probability of surviving against Google is 0 so they went after these 8 developers. Heck, even Oracle didn't survive against Google.

The trick shot there is these 8 developers convincing a judge that the patent is invalid because of "prior art" if you will (see this link from Laminar Research); or if it's considered valid that the plaintiff should go after Google instead. If the judge agrees the case is over for the plaintiff.

Re:Errrm what?

[AaronLS]

This is known as Asshat Economics. Money slowly trickles into the hands of asshats, and once there, it just moves around between the asshats to create the illusion that they are doing something meaningful.

Re:Errrm what?

[ackthpt]

Oh, this must be that trickle down economics I hear so much about

"Hey everyone, Im rich, but I need help defending the thing you all love because I dont really wanna pay for it."

Wait, what?

Trickles down to the lawyers?

Re:Errrm what?

[arth1]

The patent (filed 2001, granted 2005) is for remote license checking.

You mean like this patent, which they failed to list as prior art?

Re:Errrm what?

[symbolset]

My fault. I'm pretty bad at submitting, it's true. More practice is in order.

Re:Errrm what?

[GameboyRMH]

I call that "the honest definition of capitalism."

Re:Errrm what?

[MECC]

Turns out the patent has nothing to do with "things X-Plane has done for decades".

Kind of and kind of not. The patent the troll is claiming has been infringed on is for things others have done for decades - remote license checking:

Section 107 of the patent, which they claim I violated, contains: “107. code for verifying the license data stored on the licensing medium by communicating with a registration authority having verification data.”

The article goes on to point out a few others that have been doing this for decades. HP Openview has been doing it for as long as it has existed. I'm sure scores of others not listed have as well. Honestly, it's been a common practice for decades to be certain.

This is just another example of how software patenting is bad for the industry. Trolls can get patents on nearly anything, then file a lawsuit that while doomed by prior art will cost the victim a lot to show that prior art. Which the Patent office should have found before granting the patent in the first place.

Not to discourage people from contributing...

[drakaan]

...but (FTFA)

...Note: I have enough money to defend thus suit all the way through trial without it being a severe financial hardship, so please do not give if it is a hardship for you. But, if you would like to make a contribution to help with the cause because you want to help stop people like this, then it will surely be appreciated!...

Re:Not to discourage people from contributing...

[tlhIngan]

Plus, I bet Google steps in. Its a Google API he is using that is the subject of the troll.

Actually, I'm surprised it took so long for a response. Laminar Research was sued back in July 22, 2012.

In fact, this is part of the lawsuit that Uniloc filed against Mojang (Minecraft) as well, plus EA and many other big names. And the one where the founder says he's not a "patent troll".

I'd be surprised if Google didn't step in - it's Google's technology they're all using in the end. Just like how Apple stepped in when a bunch of iOS developers (and later, Android devs) got sued over in-app purchases.

Flightgear

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure the developers of Flightgear would be pleased to hear their efforts aren't serious.

Re:FlightGear

[Peter Bortas]

X-Plane does aerodynamic simulations on that no other civilian solution can touch.

Re:FlightGear

[X0563511]

FAA certification?

Re:Flightgear

[O'Nazareth]

Interesting. In what way a certification from one country makes a project more or less serious? Do you have better arguments that do compare the realism of the two projects?

One day I'll come on slashdot

[Dyinobal]

One day I'll come on slashdot and read "Patent Troll had his legs broken by unknown assailants, was tarred and then dumped in a bin of shredded legal papers. :

I RTFA and see the following

[Picass0]

* Laminar Research is being sued specifically for the Android version
* Uniloc is suing Laminar Research because X-Plane phones home to validate it's license
* X-Plane is using a system for license validation provided by Google. Nearly everyone else in the Android market is using this same code, so Uniloc is not going to stop here.

I would say Laminar Research needs to get EFF on the phone but I don't know if they would help defend a commercial product.

Re:I RTFA and see the following

[h4rr4r]

Sounds like he should get Google on the phone.

Re:I RTFA and see the following

[stephanruby]

I would say Laminar Research needs to get EFF on the phone but I don't know if they would help defend a commercial product.

The EFF does defend commercial products sometimes, but yes, EFF defending DRM? I certainly hope not. If the EFF did ever start defending things like DRM, they'd lose half their membership.

Stop living in the US

[girlintraining]

You need to move to a free country. Innovation is dead in this country. If you don't have several million dollars, you're nobody. You aren't entitled to legal protection, you're just a consumer waiting to be extorted. I'm not saying this to be sarcastic or political; I mean it. Move your development overseas, contribute under an alias, use Tor, whatever it takes. The United States is not a place for innovators or creators to be right now. It is, however, a great place for lawyers and thieves.

Re:Stop living in the US

[some1001]

Just another alarmist that doesn't know what the heck is he talking about.

True, the patent system for software is completely hosed up. But to say, "Innovation is dead in this country," is just you talking out of your ass.

There are plenty of companies in many other facets of science and engineering that are doing just fine by staying in the states (not to mention having some of the best schools in the world plus lots of very good ones). As an example, why do international companies in the petroleum industry routinely do business in the states? Oh wait, is it because innovation is dead? No, it's because we have some of the very best technology and great minds to advise companies all over the world.

Re:Stop living in the US

[tlhIngan]

True, the patent system for software is completely hosed up. But to say, "Innovation is dead in this country," is just you talking out of your ass.

There are plenty of companies in many other facets of science and engineering that are doing just fine by staying in the states (not to mention having some of the best schools in the world plus lots of very good ones). As an example, why do international companies in the petroleum industry routinely do business in the states? Oh wait, is it because innovation is dead? No, it's because we have some of the very best technology and great minds to advise companies all over the world.

Or, it's just software's turn this century.

Patent trolls have been around practically forever. The 19th century had patent lawsuits flying around over motorized vehicles, probably just as much as we're seeing between Apple, Microsoft, Google/Motorola, Samsung, etc. And probably just as stupid.

I believe it's a sure sign of innovation when it happens - when a technology is booming, people start mining for gold. When the high-technology sector settles down, so will the lawsuits. And then some OTHER field will experience a rise in patent lawsuits, and they too will wonder about reforming the system, blah blah blah.

History repeating itself over and over again. I tihnk some of the greatest inventors (Edison?) were also some of the most prolific lawsuit-filers.

Re:Stop living in the US

[girlintraining]

Whether it's historical or not, the business decision remains the same: The United States is no longer a safe place to innovate. It doesn't reward innovation, it punishes it.

Re:Stop living in the US

[Hatta]

As an example, why do international companies in the petroleum industry routinely do business in the states?

Because we have a corrupt government that gives favors to powerful industries.

Re:Stop living in the US

[Hatta]

Specific favors? No, I don't follow the petroleum industry that closely. But we have a terrible record at holding large corporations accountable for crimes. That can only be attractive to cartels.

Besides, whether Aramco can innovate is irrelevant. Patent trolls don't deter major corporations, they have the funds to fight. What patent trolls do is destroy individual innovation, outside of a corporate structure. You know, the kind of innovation one expects to see in a free country.

Re:Stop living in the US

[girlintraining]

No, it's because we have some of the very best technology and great minds to advise companies all over the world.

I couldn't find a single piece of electronics gear in my house with the words "Made in the USA" stamped on the bottom. And as far as the "great minds to advise[sic] companies", since our educational standards are falling like a rock, and China has more honor students than we have students, let me go out on a limb and suggest that the advice they're offering is business, not engineering. Deny it all you want, but the reality is right there for anyone to see. I'm not an "alarmist" -- I can hop a plane and fly to Japan where they have state of the art cell phones that make ours look like antiques. The iPhone 5 launch there will be met with a yawn, just like every other release. I can hop another plane to Britain and walk into the dingiest apartment in the suburbs and buy internet access 10x faster than what they have here, and in some markets at a lower place. I can hop another plane to pretty much any other country on the planet and get medication at a fraction of the price it's sold for here.

In virtually every market, in every scientific and engineering discipline, I do not need to look very hard to find people not just competing with America, but beating the snot out of it. The only thing we're good at is business -- we're litigators, we're service providers, we're the world's police force. But do not fucking sit there and tell me that we are innovators. Innovation died a long time ago in this country, and that's a fact you need to square with, instead of living off the fumes of the burned out husk of the American Dream.

Litigation costs

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Isn't it cheaper, not to mention more socially responsible, to simply bomb that company's headquarters?

Re:Litigation costs

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it cheaper, not to mention more socially responsible, to simply bomb that company's headquarters?

Way to make it onto a no fly list Mr. Kyosuke!

FlightGear

[leandrod]

What makes X Plane more serious than Flight Gear, let alone the only serious one?

Re:Only Serious Flight Simulator?

[TWX]

You Bastard! Now Uniloc will know who else to sue!

Re:EFF's policies

[Picass0]

"...without the user's permission"

You click an "Accept & Download" button when installing anything from the Play Store. listed under that button is the permissions the app requires.

Re:EFF's policies

[dotHectate]

I don't know if you have an Android but whenever I download apps there's always a list of permissions it will have. That alone probably constitutes a degree of permission by the user, I'm sure.

Hand-written envelope

[waimate]

I got hit by a patent troll a few years back. I used the same technique that I'd used when MSFT once approached us and said they thought we might be infringing on their IP and could we prove that we're not. And again when another large company said we needed to change our logo because it looked like we had dotted a capital 'i', and they owned that. Just ignore them. We got one additional letter from the patent troll, and that was the last ever heard. As someone else has said, these people are looking for deep pools of money.

In the first instance, ignore. If they demand that you must do something by some certain date, ignore. When they send the follow-up, ignore. If they come back a third time, then send a really badly written letter produced on a manual typewriter or written in crayon with a hand-written envelope telling them what they're claiming isn't applicable, but provide no details. Make yourself look small, impoverished and hard work.

Re:Hand-written envelope

[Grond]

Actually, Uniloc has sued Microsoft, Sony, Adobe, Electronic Arts, and a host of other companies large and small. Some of those suits (such as those against Mojang and EA) were based on the same patent as the suit against Laminar Research. It seems to me that the defendants should try to work out a shared defense, since it's in all of their interests to see the patent invalidated.

I'll also note that it's interesting that Google has apparently not tried to intervene in the suit. Compare that to the Lodsys suit in which Apple intervened on behalf of iOS developers.

Trolls and they know it!

[mj1856]

Wow, this troll thinks they own ALL implementations of "Software Activation" of any kind.. What a bunch of nimrods! Even their own website is super focused on litigation! http://www.uniloc.com/index.php/intellectual-property/

The only serious cross platform Flight Sim?

[yourlord]

"X-plane is a cross-platform flight simulator app, notably the only serious one that supports Mac OSX and Linux."

And here I've been using http://flightgear.org/ all this time. I thought I was using a serious, free, GPL open-source flight simulator that runs on Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux.. I'm glad this slashdot post came up to tell me I was wrong.

Dude charges for X-plane.. When you decide to charge for software you accept all the financial responsibility for defending it against litigation. Welcome to it.

Re:How to Beat a Patent Troll

[X0563511]

Oooh these guys are the genuine parasitic troll, too:

"Well, at Unilocs’ website, at the time of this writing, lives the text: “In the device recognition space, for example, we believe that we have uncovered a billion dollar market And it fits our straightforward development model. Look at many ideas. Pick an outstanding one. Patent it. Commercialize it. Reap the rewards.”"

Re:Austin Meyer

[multimediavt]

As a paying customer, he treated me like a pirate the one time I asked a support question on his web site.

How about a link to that thread, or a couple emails to back that up. I'm not disagreeing with you, but if you are looking for support for that statement from this crowd how about some proof of assholishness? I don't like some people, but I have also gotten off on the wrong foot with people too and have learned not to judge quickly. I have never met Austin but have had good rapport with the Laminar guys over the years when I have asked questions. I don't think it's been more than once or twice in ten years, though.

Re:EFF's policies

[Anonymous Coward]

He's posting from inside of it and wants some "alone time".

EFF?

[neghvar1]

He should try contacting the Electronic Frontiers Foundation to see if they could help him.