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Hardware Is Dead — At Least Most Expensive Hardware Is

First time accepted submitter ze_jua writes "In this article, Jay Goldberg, a financial analyst who travels to Shenzhen several times a year, analyses the potential consequences of the very low cost of hardware he found there on the consumer electronic industry worldwide. He wrote this piece of text after he found a very nice $45 Android 4 tablet. Are we so close to given-away tablets?"

342 comments

  1. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is retarded. Just like 99.99% of all the "news" on this site.

    1. Re:No. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Casual computer users don't define the market...Nintendo experienced this pretty hard with the Wii

      I'm absolutely certain that Casual computer users are defining the market, which is why we have moved from general purpose computers, which are powerful, flexible, useful to to closed garden, electronics, Apple are already there, Windows will be there next release, Linux is well...trying to be all things. As for Nintendo have still outsold PS3 and Xbox 360 and look to be the first to refresh their product line, and sold an amazing expensive peripherals, make a profit on every unit sold, and their first party software has legs.

      I'm not really sure of your point, but I'm certain its wrong.

    2. Re:No. by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, maybe if they just ditch the first 3 words of the headline. Or even changed the whole headline. TFA is actually kind of interesting. How about "hardware getting ever cheaper" or "Bargain tablets in Chinese market". Hardware is becoming really cheap, therefore it is dead... yeah, right.

    3. Re:No. by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's not retarded... well, not entirely.

      Hardware will always represent a non-zero cost. However, much of that cost can (eventually?) be absorbed or at least amortized by other budgets. Marketing stands out as a ferinstance (at least on a limited scale), since we already see VARs doing that with higher-priced items to IT managers and other decision-makers ("attend a sales pitch for 500Mbit fiber from Acme Telecom Business Services, and get a free iPad!" - Seriously, once we scored a free IBM ThinkPad for the department that way.)

      I bought the same $45 Android tablet for the missus' birthday off of AliExpress; it came with Android 4.0, and shipping cost $20 more. It has (almost) everything the original Kindle Fire had, but with better battery life, and minus the DRM or spamvertising.

      I wouldn't expect to get a free tablet for showing up at the local power company's booth at the county fair, but given the increasingly cheap prices? It's not too much of a stretch to see, in a couple of year, a fully functional (and decent!) tablet sitting in the toy section of the local stores, priced about the same as a Barbie Doll, model airplane, or suchlike.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:No. by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      They give away phones here in Canada when you sign up for plans.

      The plans are hilariously expensive, but you get the hardware for free.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    5. Re:No. by localman57 · · Score: 1

      I bought the same $45 Android tablet for the missus' birthday off of AliExpress; it came with Android 4.0, and shipping cost $20 more. It has (almost) everything the original Kindle Fire had, but with better battery life, and minus the DRM or spamvertising.

      But there's also a good chance it has spyware built right in. I'd think twice before using it for any sort of financial transactions, or for entering any account/password combinations you want to keep secret.

    6. Re:No. by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The hardware is never 'free'. You pay the subsidy.

      The difference here is that whern they get this cheap, and Fry's sells them for $79, and there is no real quality problem (though I can replace this every 18 months and not feel bad except for recycling it - not), then they arre so commoditized that the 'serious' tablet makers are screwed.

      The way out is to virtually and literally give them away, and start making money on the service. So if Amazon is NOT getting these, they are failing, and if they are, they are SCREWING us even more.

      Someone will offer a subscription service for eBooks based on vanilla Android tablets. Someone will offer a music subscription also, based on ubiquitous tablets everywhere.

      Win.

      ps - I propose that Android is the reason. When the OS AND the apps are all so cheap to deliver, the hardware follows. And we all really just want our books, music, magazines, blogs, candy web sites, and not so much a powerful machine to do it. Because now, evern impossibly cheap tablets are more than enough.

      I'll buy one, the wife wants to try one, and she's just dropped her iPhone, so cheap is very attractive to her. These tablets are cheaper than FIXING her iPhone.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    7. Re:No. by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      She uses it for minor stuff, and nothing financial - otherwise I'd just have her stick with the (very locked-down) laptop. If it ever became a question of using it for financial stuff, I suspect I could grab a stock ICS image and re-flash the puppy.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    8. Re:No. by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Informative

      Exactly, I got MS Office 2K7 for attending a tech event, been handed more flash sticks than I care to count (even had some given to me by the forestry dept, still haven't figured out how flash sticks and forestry connect) and that's not even counting Moore's law making it increasingly cheap to just make the good chips instead of the junk. Hell I hand out flash sticks along with wireless keyboards and mice with my new builds, the things are so cheap that it isn't really costing me anything and the customers love the idea of getting "free" stuff.

      I could easily see $25 7 inch pads and $50 10 inchers, with a decent dual core and 4-8Gb of memory, it'll simply be cheaper to mass produce those chips in such volume that the price plummets while still letting them make a profit. I mean why do you think all the monitors now are 1600x900 or 1080p? Because they crank those out for TVs so they're cheap. We see the same thing with 1366x768 in netbooks, they crank the hell out of those 12 inch screens for mini-TV and tablets and any other place where a big screen won't fit so they are again dirt cheap.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    9. Re:No. by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Funny

      But there's also a good chance it has spyware built right in.

      For all the people that have looked, the only backdoor found in Chinese gear was ones left there by Cisco, left in because of wholesale copying, not added by any Chinese company. I'd feel safer with a Chinese tablet than an NSA/FBI approved USA tablet.

    10. Re:No. by anubi · · Score: 1

      I would think with as many people out there who are really into security, log their routers, and know who they are connecting to, it wouldn't be long before flags would raise and some company will have the uber-embarassing duty of having someone explain why their companies' product is spilling beans.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    11. Re:No. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      "Expensive hardware is dead"?

      Does anyone here really believe that the last innovation in computing hardware has already happened and from now on it's all just going to be prices dropping for basically the same devices?

      I might not use the term "retarded", but this is definitely one of the dumbest headlines I've ever read. Why not just say, "you can get tablets really cheap now" instead of "expensive hardware is dead"?

      There will always be a market for expensive stuff, anyway. If there was no expensive stuff to buy, how would rich people be able to demonstrate their clear superiority to the rest of us? If there weren't expensive devices, someone would have to invent them.

      Oh wait...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    12. Re:No. by Seumas · · Score: 2

      Slashdot has become just another shitty link-fest. There should be a policy against accepting submissions for Engadget, Gizmodo, Gawker, Venturebeat, AllThingsD. Shitty pseudo-news sites full of hacks and sensationalist pajama-journalists parroting the latest meaningless crap. If I wanted to discuss a shitty linkbait article from these sub-par publications, I'd just hang out at Reddit or on those sites directly.

    13. Re:No. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      The annoying thing is going to be the part of the future where we all have a dozen slightly different revisions(each with its own ideosyncratic and slightly broken firmware, either cheap, lazy, and barely localized from the OEM, or brutally skinned and DRMed from whoever handed it out as a marketing pitch, maybe some will be supported by cyanogenmod 2017 if we are lucky) of the $35 tablet gathering dust in our sock drawer; but don't have any way to combine them into one $350-equivalent tablet.

      I remember hitting that point with computers. When I was a wee lad knee-high to a grasshopper, having access to A Computer was pretty serious business. Then, through a combination of getting older and computers getting cheaper, I could suddenly get all the computers I could dumpster dive!!! And then reality bit me in the ass: Even in the pre-virtualization environment, I couldn't actually do very much with more than a few computers, and the degree to which two computers could be turned into one better computer was pretty limited. I built a beowulf cluster, just because, but that really just drove home the fact that I didn't use much software that needed fairly-loosely-networked compute nodes. It was a sad day.

    14. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you get a phone on subsidy, you don't own the phone, you are renting it.

    15. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you get a phone on subsidy, you don't own the phone, you are renting it.

      If you were renting it you would have to give it back at the end of the contract, if you rent a house you don't get to keep it when your rental contract is up.

    16. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there's also a good chance it has spyware built right in. I'd think twice before using it for any sort of financial transactions, or for entering any account/password combinations you want to keep secret.

      That's a truly possible risk.

      The question is, is it more likely than other tablets, made by manufacturers in countries with laws like CALEA and the wonderful new things brought to us by the last decade, or less likely, or about the same?

    17. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This is retarded."

      No, it's mentally challenged, you insensitive fuck.

    18. Re:No. by exomondo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Caviar is dead! I can get baked beans for 59c a can!

    19. Re:No. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Informative

      When you get a phone on subsidy, you don't own the phone, you are renting it.

      Wrong, wrong, wrong.

      I own the new phone I got over the weekend for extending my contract for another 2 years in the same way that I own my home, the only difference being that Il be making payments on the former until 2015, and on the latter until 2041. In either case, I own the object, and I get to keep it indefinitely following the end of the contract, as long as I make the payments.

      One interesting affect of this is that both objects are covered for full repair or replacement by my insurance, which I wouldn't have to carry on them if they weren't my property (and I were not thus responsible for them).

      So, no, my subsidised phone is no more rented from my my telco than the home that's subsidised by my bank is rented from them.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    20. Re:No. by McFadden · · Score: 1

      They have given away the iPhone 3G, 3GS, 4, 4S, iPad 2, 3 and will give away the iPhone 5 in Japan when you sign up for 2 years. And the contracts aren't really any more pricey than the US and come with unlimited data.

    21. Re:No. by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      I bought the same $45 Android tablet for the missus' birthday off of AliExpress; it came with Android 4.0, and shipping cost $20 more. It has (almost) everything the original Kindle Fire had, but with better battery life, and minus the DRM or spamvertising.

      I've been browsing the tablets on AliExpress for a while, but there's such a cornucopia of 'em, I can't make up my mind. Plus, it's hard to tell which one is reliable. I was looking at buying one for my son to play with.
      Are you satisfied with yours? Could you please tell me what brand/model it is? You could make a dad's life 10% easier.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    22. Re:No. by Liam+Pomfret · · Score: 1

      been handed more flash sticks than I care to count (even had some given to me by the forestry dept, still haven't figured out how flash sticks and forestry connect)

      A paperless office means more conservation of trees?

    23. Re:No. by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      The forestry department wants you to use files on the stick, instead of printing stuff out on paper. Which is made from trees. :)

    24. Re:No. by rullywowr · · Score: 1

      "Expensive hardware is dead"?

      Does anyone here really believe that the last innovation in computing hardware has already happened and from now on it's all just going to be prices dropping for basically the same devices?

      I might not use the term "retarded", but this is definitely one of the dumbest headlines I've ever read. Why not just say, "you can get tablets really cheap now" instead of "expensive hardware is dead"?

      There will always be a market for expensive stuff, anyway. If there was no expensive stuff to buy, how would rich people be able to demonstrate their clear superiority to the rest of us? If there weren't expensive devices, someone would have to invent them.

      Oh wait...

      I hear there is this up and coming company in Cupertino, California that is aiming at making expensive hardware and coming up with "new" innovations such as "pinch to zoom."

    25. Re:No. by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      I got one of the Allwinner tablets for her. it has a 1-year warranty (but seriously, I suspect it's a literal slow-boat-to-china type of warranty). The only page I have of it now is the cached one, but here's the description:

      7" Allwinner A13 Q88 tablet pc 5 point capacitive Screen + android 4.0 + Multi Touch + 1.2GHz 512MB 4GB + Webcam + Wifi

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    26. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on your definition of 'own'. When it's done being paid for, you indeed keep it indefinitely... but if you just... decide to stop making payments,, then soon enough someone will come along and be like "Well, hope you enjoyed your stay. Bugger off, this is ours now".

      So in that perspective, you don't own it. If you don't keep giving people money, it will be taken away from you. It's more like you're renting it... the only difference from renting being that eventually, you can stop paying rent. But not yet.

    27. Re:No. by travisco_nabisco · · Score: 1

      I believe he was getting more at the point that since the processor is designed and manufactured in China, it could have the spyware built right into the silicon.

    28. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One interesting affect of this is that both objects are covered for full repair or

      Wrong, wrong, wrong. Effect. Not affect.

    29. Re:No. by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I think I've seen it, but since I was looking for a 10" model, I automatically forgot about it, and the low price.

      And was, for similar reasons, assuming that you bought a 10" model as well.

      10 word review?

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    30. Re:No. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Uhhh...nice theory, except the local forestry dept has been promoting renewable pine farms over harvesting old growth trees so one would think they'd want you to use more of the renewables?

      Meh I ended up with a fistload of those nice metal cased kingston 4gb sticks, fast enough for Readyboost while having a connector that makes it easy to pop on a keyring. whatever they are going for I can't say a bad thing about these sticks, sure have lasted longer than my damned 16gb data traveler..damned POS data traveler.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    31. Re:No. by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      "you are renting it." "as long as I make the payments." And those payments are higher than if you paid up front?

      So how is that not renting it again?

    32. Re:No. by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      I buy a scientific multi-function calculator at the Dollar store for (you guessed it) one dollar. Thinking back, these same gadgets were selling for $79.95 about 10 years ago.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    33. Re:No. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Early-morning pre-caffeine typo.

      (Yes, I am really am a writer; yes, I really do know the difference; yes, I'm human and occasionally make errors, especially when I've not yet had my coffee.)

      (Happy now?)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    34. Re:No. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Last time I rented a car, I had to pay extra for permission to take it out of the state (Florida, for the curious). Last time I owned a car, I required no such permission to take it anywhere I was able to drive it, the fact that I was still making payments on it notwithstanding.

      Last time I rented a home, I didn't like the colour of the walls in the hallway, but the landlord did. Guess which colour remained on the walls?

      I now own my home, and the bank doesn't get to tell me what colour I paint it.

      Alas, there's no chance that the bank will pay to fix my pipes, should they break--unlike a landlord who is usually required to pay for maintenance and repair of this sort (and to do so whether I'm current with the rent or not).

      Owning and owing are not mutually exclusive. If they were, lots fewer people in this world would own their own homes.

      As for the new phone: I could have just paid for it outright, and had originally planned to do so. However, my telco offered me a deal that better reflected my usage, reduced my monthly bill by about 30%, and provided me ownership of the phone I wanted. Since I would have been willing to renew my (now previous) contract in any case, I took the offer.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    35. Re:No. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      The total spent on the phone over 2 years is about 4% greater than paying for it up front. I consider that a reasonable rate of interest.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  2. Absolutely. by Alan+Shutko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Expensive hardware has been dead for a while. That's why Apple had such disappointing preorders of the new iPhone and has been lagging behind Samsung in tablet sell-through.

    Or, maybe not.

    1. Re:Absolutely. by OS24Ever · · Score: 0

      Or, maybe Apple being expensive is a giant troll that won't die and they're really not that expensive.

      --

      As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

    2. Re:Absolutely. by Rob+Kaper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple is definitely not the cheapest option, but neither are the high-end and competing Android devices. The point is not that the top of the line items don't sell, it is that the budget options have become insanely cheap in the Big Mac index.

    3. Re:Absolutely. by kamapuaa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or, maybe they are really expensive, but people still buy things that are expensive.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    4. Re:Absolutely. by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

      Expensive hardware has been dead for a while. That's why Apple had such disappointing preorders of the new iPhone and has been lagging behind Samsung in tablet sell-through.

      Or, maybe not.

      Apples market share in Tablets has been dropping rapidly for some time, and even the iPhones market share has been dropping. This is not even about Samsung, which have positioned themselves against the iPhone in the high price end part of the market, this is about tablets ten times cheaper than an iPAd.

      Personally having played with a Huawei g300, a phone eight times cheaper than the iPhone, and been amazed. I would not hesitate getting a large tablet from Huawei, or a Galaxy Note equivalent.

      Apple will do well, bet there is better value elsewhere and the market is responding to it. Its why the iPhone is a niche product.

    5. Re:Absolutely. by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      Except that the hardware on the iPhone isn't all that expensive. 150 bucks or something. Maybe 200 on the top end, and that cost will go down fairly quickly. The expensive part is the software.

    6. Re:Absolutely. by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      Well and the apple logo of course, but I mean even compared to non apple phones, hardware wise this stuff isn't nearly as expensive to make as we pay for it.

    7. Re:Absolutely. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      Case in point. I was just asked what type of digital picture frame to should get. I said get an Android tablet and throw a picture frame app on it. For the price of the decent digital picture frames ($99 - $130) you can find quite a few good tablets.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    8. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Um, what? iPad marketshare actually went up during the past year.

    9. Re:Absolutely. by couchslug · · Score: 5, Funny
      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    10. Re:Absolutely. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      iPhones hit that "stupid spot" in the American consumer - no money down, affordable monthly payments, visible bling to flash around with your friends, and it has grown into a hip-cool brand too.

      Doesn't matter what it does or doesn't do, with those components you've got a winner.

    11. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is cheap hardware for which they overcharge. It's not any different from what other companies are offering, but they wrap it up with an Apple logo and people willingly overpay for it.

      And that there is the problem, it's easy to find expensive devices, but the hardware in them isn't necessarily any better than the cheaper devices. HDDs came out to have no correlation between cost and durability when Google was looking at the issue a few years ago.

      What's more, there is no mid range anymore like there used to be, by and large your choices are cheap or high end. And a lot of folks can't afford and or don't need high end.

    12. Re:Absolutely. by afgam28 · · Score: 4, Informative

      You didn't read the article, did you? The author's argument was that businesses that sell pure hardware will struggle. He specifically singled out Apple as an example of a company that also sells integrated software, and therefore does not have this problem.

    13. Re:Absolutely. by ski9826 · · Score: 1

      2 million pre-orders in the first 2 days is disappointing?

    14. Re:Absolutely. by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      "But there is Virtual Machines created on VMWare that can simulate Apple MacOS in regular PCs."

      Well, if you fool the EFI/bootloader, write your own drivers (or have someone else write/upload them) for your specific hardware, and don't mind the occasional hiccup or missing feature? Sure... it's (err, almost) the same thing.

      Trust me - I'd love to have OSX running as the primary OS on my Samsung RC512, but that's never gonna happen. Why? Because I don't have the time to write drivers to wedge things in, and I want all this crap on my laptop (including the BD-ROM) to work. Besides, in a year or two the plastic top cover is likely going to crack anyway due to all the flexing I see it do every time I open the lid.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    15. Re:Absolutely. by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, because Google knowing that you're looking at IMAG1423.jpg or SL732581.jpg is going to spill the beans on all the secrets in your life.

    16. Re:Absolutely. by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wrong, the expensive part is Apple's monstrous profit margin.

    17. Re:Absolutely. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Except the iPad isn't expensive.

      A Macbook Air or something such would be more accurate.

      A Mac Pro even more so.

    18. Re:Absolutely. by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 3, Funny

      You do know that Google can analyse images, don't you?

    19. Re:Absolutely. by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Why buy a nokia when you can have a vertu?

    20. Re:Absolutely. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Uhhh...just get a hackentosh? Its not like its a big secret friend, tutorials all over the web, its just that you have to be a little more picky about your hardware because most things don't have Apple drivers.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    21. Re:Absolutely. by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 1

      Religions are always profitable.

      --
      This space available.
    22. Re:Absolutely. by hairyfeet · · Score: 0

      But that is like saying "While clothing store close Prada has had a GREAT year"...uhhh...so what? Its a fashion brand that sells to a specific high end market, comparing it to tech is like comparing how Ferrari does as an indication of the car industry.

      Lets face it Cook could crap in a box and get 10K+ for it, its the nature of fashion. For proof seen the infamous iPhone 4 (Ur holding it wrong) or the reviews of iPhone 5 saying its a big let down, both sold and will sell like mad, nobody cares about the hardware with Apple, its all fashion.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    23. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about people who buy something that works for them? Are you that uptight? Try getting laid. It'll help.

    24. Re:Absolutely. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You really think your Android tablet is uploading all your images to Google? If so, I'd like to see some wi-fi capture logs proving that.

    25. Re:Absolutely. by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      iPad has 90% of tablet web traffic. Why is that? You might be able to buy cheaper Android tablets, but chances are they'll gather dust on the shelf.

    26. Re:Absolutely. by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      Lets face it Cook could crap in a box and get 10K+ for it, its the nature of fashion.

      No he couldn't. And by making such crap arguments, you only go to show you're the one full of shit.

    27. Re:Absolutely. by Chrontius · · Score: 1
      Did you even read what he wrote?

      That last paragraph about how the non-monetary costs of making a laptop Hackintosh? Like spending who-knows-how-long rolling his own drivers?

      How about I just quote the 2012 hackintosh guide:

      Tweaking can be kept to a minimum, since the HP ProBook 4530s forum on tonymacx86 has pretty much figured out everything for you. If you're looking for a truly Hackintosh-friendly laptop, go with this one.

      That being said, not everything is perfect. Bluetooth won't work after waking up from sleep, but screen brightness controls won't work before waking up from sleep. So you'll have to decide which feature is more important to you. Also, Bluetooth doesn't work after a restart (only a cold bootup will make it work), the VGA port is unreliable, and the external microphone doesn't work at all. However, don't let all of these problems with the 4530s discourage you; none of the problems really affect the laptop's usability. In fact, the 4530s actually has fewer problems than most Hackintosh laptops. It just happens that the glitches for the 4530s are better documented.

      And this is the gold standard. Bluetooth is kind of a dealbreaker. Screen brightness is kind of a dealbreaker. Headphones (laptop speakers suck) is absolutely a dealbreaker since I lug laptops to LANs and speakers will get you booted. I'll grant you that building a Hack Pro isn't terrible (I did it once, just try out OSX; I ended up with a succession of Macbooks Pro as a result) but building a Hackbook seems to have gone to hell with the demise of the Dell Mini-9.

    28. Re:Absolutely. by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      It's fair to point out that the vast majority of which is going to be reinvested in R&D to make the iPhone 5s.

    29. Re:Absolutely. by flappinbooger · · Score: 1

      Expensive hardware has been dead for a while. That's why Apple had such disappointing preorders of the new iPhone and has been lagging behind Samsung in tablet sell-through.

      Or, maybe not.

      A while ago netbooks were all the rage. Now tablets. Next will be ________ and it will be cool, for sure.

      The issue behind TFA is the same issue that's been around for about 4 years now. Entry level hardware is completely capable of meeting the needs of 90+% of consumers.

      Tech companies keep innovating and trying to maintain Moore's law. There will always be a $1000 top-of-the-line Extreme Edition Ultra Uber chip, and people will always buy them, helping the tech companies pay for the R+D so that after a while the $1000 chip will be available for $35 on Tiger Direct.

      iPhones are not expensive hardware, they cost about $200 or so.

      iPads are not expensive hardware either, apparently.

      Perhaps the real premise is expensive high-end desktop PCs are dead. Except for render stations, CAD stations, gamers, etc.

      hmmm.... Well....

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    30. Re:Absolutely. by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      It's doubly hard, because a lot of times, a given mb that is well supported is no longer available today.. and you buy something similar, and say the audio or nic doesn't work... fortunately easy enough to add one that is better.... that said, not enough of an osx fan to do the hackintosh thing again... I have an mbp laptop, but the latest osx release has kind of put me off... may be running mint or ubuntu on it next os update if it gets worse.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    31. Re:Absolutely. by afgam28 · · Score: 1

      I see you didn't read the article either.

      The article is saying that super cheap tablets can be found in Shenzen. The author then goes on to imagine what this might lead to in the future, such as free giveaway promotional tablets. He mentions that this might make things tough for hardware-only sellers, who have nothing to differentiate their products from the cheap Chinese tablets. But companies that integrate their hardware with custom software (like Apple) will be OK.

    32. Re:Absolutely. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      iPhones hit that "stupid spot" in the American consumer - no money down, affordable monthly payments, visible bling to flash around with your friends, and it has grown into a hip-cool brand too.

      Doesn't matter what it does or doesn't do, with those components you've got a winner.

      This is it exactly.

      The Iphone has become the Toyota Camry of phones. In terms of functionality as well as popularity.

      The Camry is a common, 4 door sedan that is not particularly flashy nor a performance vehicle but it is highly reliable and easy to drive. It's the ideal A to B car and it's popularity to "A to B" commuters reflects this. Lets be honest, the Camry is not a good drive. It corners like a whale, accelerates like a slug, handles like a brick and is often driven by a prick who pays no attention to the road but the Camry just works(TM), it's dead simple to drive, mechanically reliable and service and parts are easy to come by when they do break them. This does not however, stop Camry owners from thinking their Camry is special, they will put their my family stickers on their replacement windshields completely oblivious that it came off the last person to crash their Camry. Camry's are so ubiquitous and readily available that even people on the dole own one.

      Sent from my Nexus Integra (that's Acura RSX if you live in the US).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    33. Re:Absolutely. by epiccollision · · Score: 1

      how could you ignore the SIII price is inline with the iPhone...biased much? and it could be argued that the SIII cuts a few corners yet still justifies its comparable price despite the fact that its quad core produces similar benchmark results to the new iPhone ...they are similar devices with similar prices....and are being sold in obscene numbers even at that price premium.

    34. Re:Absolutely. by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Religions are always profitable.

      No, only the ones you've heard of. For every religion which was a commercial success, I bet there are a hundred which died out, penniless. If religions were always profitable, then everyone would form their own religion. I would be a pope and so would you.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    35. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The answer you were looking for is Subsidy. Countries like mine where we BUY mobiles iPhone share is a tiny percent.

    36. Re:Absolutely. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      iPad has 90% of tablet web traffic. Why is that? You might be able to buy cheaper Android tablets, but chances are they'll gather dust on the shelf.

      Your quoting web traffic as a metric for sales!? Do you really think that is sensible...as opposed to quoting sales! as sales. The fact that you are trying to display the illusion that Shops are buying and Android tablets to occupy expensive shelf, and stock space, shows an astonishing lack of insight into how basic retail works.

    37. Re:Absolutely. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Um, what? iPad marketshare actually went up during the past year.

      Have you even looked at your source...Its Apple spin from an Apple slide no less. Bless it. http://betanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/iPad-vs.-Android-Tablet-Market-Share.png. Apples market share has been dropping over time. Right now post Q2. I'm going to say with Google, and Amazon both making great launches. I'd say Apple is taking a beating in the the Post Nexus 7 world. The picture is from http://betanews.com/2012/07/24/nexus-7-will-lead-android-tablets-to-overtake-ipad/ which shows that Android is eroding Apples market share faster than it did with phones.

    38. Re:Absolutely. by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Your quoting web traffic as a metric for sales!? Do you really think that is sensible...as opposed to quoting sales! as sales. The fact that you are trying to display the illusion that Shops are buying and Android tablets to occupy expensive shelf, and stock space, shows an astonishing lack of insight into how basic retail works.

      It is actual quite sensible to look at web traffic. Of the non-iPad tablets, a huge number are mostly used as eBook readers (Nook and Kindle). And while they reduce the iPad's "tablet market share", they are not really competing with the iPad. The 10% web traffic that wasn't on iPads however comes from real competitors.

    39. Re:Absolutely. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      It is actual quite sensible to look at web traffic. Of the non-iPad tablets, a huge number are mostly used as eBook readers (Nook and Kindle). And while they reduce the iPad's "tablet market share", they are not really competing with the iPad. The 10% web traffic that wasn't on iPads however comes from real competitors.

      I am in kind of Awe at this response. I personally think 5" Android phones would be included in the figures, as they are being used as tablets. Personally I've been shocked at how much more useful 7" widescreen tablets that is useful for reading Books; Watching Video; and Playing games than Apples outdated CRT dimensions, only really useful for a little light browsing.

      See what I did there. Its also true.

    40. Re:Absolutely. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Your quoting web traffic as a metric for sales!?

      No, I'm pointing out that web-browsing is a pretty fundamental use of a tablet, and for some reason the people buying Android tablets aren't doing much of it. My speculation is that they aren't used much for anything because they are a bit of a disappointment, and are sitting on a shelf at home.

      I mean the other possibility you raise, that they haven't actually been sold to end-users, and are gathering dust on store shelves is possible, but that was your point, not mine.

      Another poster points out that some proportion of those Android tablets are ebook readers... but aren't the Android ones of those capable of browsing the web as well? iPads can and do function well as both.

    41. Re:Absolutely. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      ...but aren't the Android ones of those capable of browsing the web as well?

      The Nook Simple Touch is Android-based, but has no general-purpose web browsing functionality unless you root it. That said, I'm also not sure if those count in the statistics. I suppose it depends on whose statistics you look at.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    42. Re:Absolutely. by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      I must be missing something here, or maybe you just can't read the chart you linked. The chart shows the iPad gaining market share at the expense of Android since the launch of the Kindle Fire. The color coding of the chart is obnoxious, as the first chart in the article has the iPhone in red and Android in blue, while the tablet one has the colors reversed.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    43. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that if you don't sign in to Google on any new Android devices, Google has no part of you device, don't you? For the extremely paranoid, ICS+ devices can disable applications - including Google's own.

      Oh wait, knowing stuff hurt brain, ooga boogah

    44. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're new to the internet aren't you?

      http://www.webpronews.com/elvis-hair-sold-at-recent-memorabilia-auction-2012-06

      Elvis hair goes for 32k.

    45. Re:Absolutely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you know you can remove a tablet from the interwebz? Most androids have this thing called an SD card.

      No internet + SD card = pictures without "Big Bad Google" watching you.

      Or shit... if your a half way competent ./'er, you can block the tablet's IP at the router, and still upload pictures to it while not letting it Phone Home.

      Just because it has Android... doesn't mean it can phone home.

    46. Re:Absolutely. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      I must be missing something here, or maybe you just can't read the chart you linked. The chart shows the iPad gaining market share at the expense of Android since the launch of the Kindle Fire. The color coding of the chart is obnoxious, as the first chart in the article has the iPhone in red and Android in blue, while the tablet one has the colors reversed.

      Education...Seriously its not that difficult to follow. http://serc.carleton.edu/quantskills/methods/quantlit/trends.html This should get you started. If you need more detailed help do not hesitate to ask. ;)

    47. Re:Absolutely. by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      Ah, I see your being dishonest in defence of Android is a pattern.

  3. Nope by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There will always be a market for premium hardware. This is just abjectly idiotic.

    --
    I got here through a series of tubes
    1. Re:Nope by rtaylor · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yup. Recently spent nearly $50k for a new machine (512GB ram, 64 CPU, etc.). Seems many people are using low end hardware at the client end and expecting the cloud (which for some applications is not easily distributed) to do the real work.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    2. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If munchkins are hand polishing it with unicorn blood, I'm in!

    3. Re:Nope by irwiss · · Score: 1

      Hey, it brings in viewers, however idiotic it is

    4. Re:Nope by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yup. Recently spent nearly $50k for a new machine (512GB ram, 64 CPU, etc.).

      ...

      Can I be your friend?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are now aware I may be buying them just to distinguish myself from the people who complain about them.

    6. Re:Nope by tthomas48 · · Score: 3

      There will always be a market for status. What form that status takes is another thing entirely.

    7. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. Recently spent nearly $50k for a new machine (512GB ram, 64 CPU, etc.). Seems many people are using low end hardware at the client end and expecting the cloud (which for some applications is not easily distributed) to do the real work.

      Minecraft server?

    8. Re:Nope by DigiShaman · · Score: 1, Troll

      Yes, and the lemmings are the more vocal but rare among the crowd of iPhone users. I was actually lucky enough to pre-order a new iPhone 5. I knew they were going to be a hot item which is why I waited till 3am to plug my order. This BTW would be my first iPhone in a long string of Windows Mobile, BlackBerry, and Droid phones. I just want a smart phone that fucking works. It would seem that Apple got it right based on playing around with other iPhones out in the field.

      This week, my Droid 2 is going away. I really hate that phone! Wish I kept my Black Berry Curve instead while I had the chance.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    9. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bragging rights? It was worth it so I didn't have to wait for my Android to populate it's home screen every time I brought it out of sleep mode. Motorola's support? Zero. Google's support? Zero.

    10. Re:Nope by alen · · Score: 1

      Apparently tens of millions of them
      Just like the ones who buy Honda and Toyota instead of cheaper Kia and other cheapo brands

    11. Re:Nope by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      it looks like lemmings <> china

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    12. Re:Nope by Penguinisto · · Score: 2, Informative

      One caveat: Bleeding-edge isn't always about bragging rights.

      While Apple makes some monster profit percentages, things like Retina Displays, specialized metal (as in, not-plastic) cases that hold up to abuse a little better... these things do tend to cost more, both in the newness of technology (because not everyone has such things tooled-up and ready to rock on relatively large scales), and in having enough R&D put in to make sure you don't end up with a bleeding-edge-but-crap product (which Apple, while better than most, occasionally borks over too - as evidenced by the antenna thingy a couple of years back).

      It's like buying the latest server model with all the top-spec goodies in it, as opposed to buying last year's model with somewhat lower specs. Of course they're going to charge you more for it. Question is this: is that extra 'oomph worth it to you or not? Sometimes it is, sometimes it ain't.

      (Disclosure? No problem - I bought a brand-new dual G4 PowerMac back in 2004 - cost me bout $2k. I finally put it in the closet for good last year, with no failed parts, and the only system lock-ups coming from serious goofs while writing code. Meanwhile on the PC desktop side, I plowed through six motherboards (two of them because they blew up), four CPUs, four HDDs, two cases, way too much RAM, two copies of Windows (XP and 7 - skipped Vista), and two power supplies. Call it two $1200 upper-end Dell or HP boxen plus parts - just to keep up performance-wise (from look and feel, not necessarily from benchmarks). The only reason I put the Mac away was because the thing was finally too far out of tech (as a PPC box), and new programs/games tended to favor the x86 architecture a bit too much. Overall, I actually saved money on the Mac side. Then again, I don't buy main desktop boxen for the 'ooo - shiny' factor, but for the long haul.)

      I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes it ain't for the bragging rights (though I admit I enjoyed whipping that beast out at LAN parties back in the day, only to have one monitor playing a movie while the games --Unreal Tournament and UT2k3&4 mostly-- ran flawlessly on the other).

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    13. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Insert Beowulf cluster comment => Here

    14. Re:Nope by Threni · · Score: 1

      And these cheap Android tablets are always - *always* - shit. Even the Nexus 7 is cheap shit, with reports of faulty units all over the internet. If you want to make something good, there'll be a market for it. Finally there are good Android tablets around, but you're not going to get one for $45.

    15. Re:Nope by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's not quite the same. A car is a giant cost, $10-50k. That's a big difference from a $50-500 tablet computer. So it's absolutely rational to try to make a safe purchase decision, even if it costs more. Honda and Toyota have built up excellent reputations for reliability over several decades now; cheaper brands haven't. The American brands have built themselves terrible reputations for reliability, by contrast.

      The problem is, the real quality factors have been changing over time. The American brands have gotten a lot better. The Korean brands have improved to an amazing degree since the early 90s Hyundai Excel. And Honda and Toyota have been having problems (like the Prius pedal problem a few years ago), and have fallen behind in other places too. The Honda Civic, which has been on Consumer Reports' top choice list for decades, has actually fallen off of it now, mainly because there's so many other choices that have surpassed it in value.

      But it takes time for reputations to change. For cheaper items, people are much more willing to take a chance, since if a $50 tablet computer turns out to be a POS, they're only out $50 and they can buy another one. But if a $35000 car turns out to be a POS, then not only is that a huge financial loss (even if you turn around and re-sell it on the used market, you'll lose thousands), but there's a potential to lose time too, in missing work because your car broke down in the morning commute, having to deal with repairs and loaner or rental cars, etc. Reliable transportation has huge benefits aside from the purchase price.

    16. Re:Nope by jo42 · · Score: 1

      There will always be lemmings willing to pay for shiny bragging rights.

      Same reason you see all the Audis, BMWs, Mercedes and other over-priced automaboobles all over the place...

    17. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I was actually lucky enough to pre-order a new iPhone 5."

      Do you really think there is that much of a limited supply or apple just likes to see stores with long lines for new products?

    18. Re:Nope by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Don't know. Don't care. I need a new phone ASAP as my Droid 2 has a power button that no longer works. To wake up the screen, I have to slide the keyboard open and closed. It's in my interest to get a new iPhone on launch day if I'm going to get an iPhone at all. And yes, I'd rather have the new 5 version being that I rarely upgrade my phone anyways.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    19. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to know more about your new machine (make, model, platform, etc) and what it's being used for.

    20. Re:Nope by hairyfeet · · Score: 0

      Did you wait in line for the Air Jordans too? Apple frankly doesn't really have a place at the table when we talk hardware because they are FASHION, no different than Gucci and prada, its all about branding.

      Look at how many reviews say the iPhone 5 is "Meh" yet again guys like you will stand in line, often with the last iPhone or Ipad in your hands, to shell out Apple's crazy 45%+ markup so you can be the first on your block to have the "new" iCandy. Was there something wrong with the last model? did you not say how wonderful it was when you bought it? Its not the "NEW!!!" version so its as unhip as last year's Jordans, that's all.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    21. Re:Nope by Colourspace · · Score: 1

      You sound VERY unlucky with your HP hardware. Have you checked how clean your power supply is recently? My HP has lasted since 2003 (still in use daily). I bought it a new mouse recently.

    22. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What luck! When it came to consuming a product that has no legitimate scarcity, you won! What a lucky consumer you are. I wasn't lucky. I just went to a shop and bought a fucking phone.

    23. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      You talk like every other fandroid. "Herp! You bought an iPhonez? There's no reason to buy teh iPhone!!!!1111!!!!"
       
      It works. It has less inconsistencies than the Android culture does. Apple backs it with applications like iTunes, iMatch, AirPlay and iCloud that work with our other hardware. Get over it. Some of us have a very good reason for owning an iPhone.

    24. Re:Nope by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 0

      Except android stuff syncs as well or better, and you really want to brag about itunes? Really?

      Of course it just works, when it does less there is less of a chance something can break or have bugs. Unless you hold it wrong, of course.

    25. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The interesting thing about that is that the consumer reports and market surveys don't follow that perception. Toyota has been absolutely battered by quality issues the last decade while American and Korean brands have steadily improved. Of course if you ask someone as a matter of general perception you're absolutely correct, though that should say more about what it means to ask some guy the street instead of looking at recalls and service stats.

    26. Re:Nope by SternisheFan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The iPhone5 has no hdmi out, no usb ($30 adaptor), a battery that won't get through the day, a measly 4" screen, no swype style type keyboard, no sd card, no hd, and that's just off the top of my head. It's untested in regular use category, will it break as easily as the other iPhones? And not only is it and it's cables/adaptors overpriced,h, all my friends with iPhones tell me Siri doesn't work very well. So my question is, why WOULD you want an iPhone5?

    27. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when you say 'lucky enough'......................?

    28. Re:Nope by SternisheFan · · Score: 1

      I own a $99 Arnova (re-branded Archos) tablet that has an A8 1ghz processor, 5 point multi-touch 7"screen, updated it from ics to jelly bean, fast enough to code with it, 1080 hdml, decent battery life, 4gb internal ram with 32 gig sd card capability. I use a usb keyboard and mouse and joystick, port out video to my hdml tv. It runs most all mame/n64/ps1 and below emulated games, and divx files with not a hiccup. Yeah, I.m pretty much done with a regular computer/laptop. There's no longer a need for one any longer.

    29. Re:Nope by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      That's what I mean: it takes public perception some time to catch up with the data you'll see if you look at recalls and service data. Asking "some guy on the street" is exactly the right thing to do if you're trying to see what public perception is, rather than the reality of a manufacturer's current reliability as shown by statistical evidence. And public perception is what drives sales.

      Don't forget also that people buy and keep cars a LOT longer than tablets, phones, etc. So a bunch of people still driving their 15-year-old Hondas and Toyotas will likely have great things to say about them, even though their anecdotal evidence isn't really valid any more. A guy looking at Toyotas may ask all his friends, and if his friends have (or had) Toyotas aged 1 year, 5 years, 8 years, 10 years, 13 years, 16 years, and 22 years, he's probably going to hear lots of great things about these cars, along with possibly (but not that likely) one complaint, from one of the guys with the two newest models. And they'll also start telling him about all the problems they had with their American-made cars, which were made in the 1980s. I still have nightmares about the 80s and early 90s American cars I had to put up with! What pieces of shit those were. It takes a long time for an auto maker to live down a bad reputation, and as I showed here, it takes a while for them to trash a good one too.

    30. Re:Nope by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      expecting the cloud (which for some applications is not easily distributed) to do the real work

      As it should.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    31. Re:Nope by quenda · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There will always be a market for premium hardware. This is just abjectly idiotic.

      Always is a long time. Try visiting your local hardware store and aking about the "premium" brand of nails, or copper wire.

      My grandfather's blacksmith swore by Glasgow Metalworks nails, and would never buy that cheaper generic made-in-America crap.

    32. Re:Nope by BasilBrush · · Score: 1, Troll

      "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

      There's always another idiot that thinks good devices are about feature checklists rather than user experience.

    33. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My experience with HP is hit and miss. Their business desktops are fantastic. 100%. Their home desktops are fairly good. I'm still using my last 2 and they're hanging in their like champs. The home user laptops leave something to be desired. At least their higher end laptops seemed to have heat related failures at the drop of a hat. I still own a HP 4L printer. It doesn't get any real use but it still works after something like 18 years give or take.
       
      I have one MacBook. The new Retina series. I like it so far but it does get a bit hotter than I expected under load. The performance is nice but I'm not convinced that OS X has it all above anything else. I like it, it works but so did Win7 for me. I'm not disappointed but I'm just not getting the "intuitive" feeling to it that so many fanbois ranted on about.
       
      It comes down to wants and needs. The whole Android vs iOS thing is sadly ridiculous on both sides. My iPhone doesn't lag so I don't give a damn about processor and I like the form factor. I can understand others liking their other devices on the same basis. I like my Motorola Droid. I like my Samsung i760. I liked my original Blackberry (7250?). There's no need for all this garbage about devices.

    34. Re:Nope by mjwx · · Score: 1

      There will always be a market for premium hardware. This is just abjectly idiotic.

      But we aren't talking the difference between a $15K Nissan Maxima and a $40K Nissan Skyline 370 GT here. These are two radically different products.

      We are talking about the difference between a $50 tablet made in China and a $500 tablet made in China. When two products are almost exactly the same, but one is priced radically higher than the other.

      Now I would very much like to buy the 370 GT over the Maxima because the Maxima does not have the performance of the 370 by a long shot, but why should I pay $3-500 more for a tablet when it has the exact same performance as the no-name brand?

      You're right that there will always be a market for premium goods, but only when those goods are premium like the Skyline 370, however, there will never be a premium market for the Maxima because it's a consumer car, not a performance car. If you released a "premium" Maxima, it just wont sell because the non premium Maxima is exactly the same and half the price.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    35. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you'd rather go back to your Curve, you have had some really shitty android/WM phones.

    36. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I know sample size of 1, ect... but I have owned three motherboards in the last 3 years, none from the high-end manufacturers, and run the computer around 12 hours a day. The only hardware failure I have ever had is a graphics card that shit the bed because of bad solder.

    37. Re:Nope by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      Quality, you mean. American cars, in general, are exceptionally reliable. They might be cheap and have plastics that rot in the sun, but by god they will get you places, thanks to simple, big, low compression engines. European cars are notoriously unreliable(special marks for Peugeot), but the finish is much better.

      Neither are in the same league as Toyota in quality (precision, quality, and reliability), but to say that American cars in general are unreliable is a stretch.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    38. Re:Nope by walshy007 · · Score: 2

      And for a geek that wants said functionality, it would be a very poor user experience.

      Different criteria for 'good' yields different products, who'd have thought?

      Some people value style and simplicity over capability, others prefer capability knowing that you cannot fully utilize capability and flexibility without some added understanding.

    39. Re:Nope by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      You are correct. I can't speak ill of all WM and Droid phones. Only the ones I've had personal experience with. It's just that everyone I know that has had an iPhone has had a rather pleasant experience with them. Well, I want a good experience with a smart phone too. I'm done playing around and experimenting with new devices. I'm basing my decisions on word-of-mouth and reviews. I'm guinea pig fatigued.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    40. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to back that up with anything meaningful instead of "Android good! iPhone bad!"? Care to tell me the name of the service that you use that backs up your entire apps catalog, music (over 100gigs), office documents, contacts, calendars, photos for 25 USD a year or less? That you can also use on your laptop, phone, tablet? That you can play through a TV? All tied in one package?
       
      Back up your big mouth Fandroid.

    41. Re:Nope by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      American car engines aren't that simple any more; lots of GM cars have GDI now (gasoline direct injection), which is how the V6 Camaro gets nearly 30mpg. Dual overhead cams are pretty standard these days. This isn't the 90s any more. And those older engines weren't that reliable either; they had a reputation for wearing badly; I heard mechanics make jokes that a Japanese engine with 100k miles looked like an American engine with 10k miles.

      I haven't heard that much about European cars being unreliable. BMW and Mercedes have had some problems with initial quality surveys, but some have attributed that to their owners being far more picky than buyers of Chevies, and that stuff usually concerns interior fit and finish.

      Anyway, I never said American cars are unreliable, but that they were unreliable. The 70s and 80s were a very bad time for American cars. And there's a lot more to a car running reliably than just the engine. A reliable engine isn't very useful if your alternator is constantly crapping out, for instance, or the steering parts are breaking or wheel bearings are going bad.

    42. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cut the guy some slack; he was going for the obligatory car analogy for this story, and fell short. Did you have to show him it's done in such detail?

    43. Re:Nope by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      There will always be lemmings willing to pay for shiny bragging rights.

      Always willing to, perhaps. Always able to? Not so much.

    44. Re:Nope by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      There will always be a market for premium hardware. This is just abjectly idiotic.

      Always is a long time. Try visiting your local hardware store and aking about the "premium" brand of nails, or copper wire.

      Unavailable in your local hardware store != unavailable globally. I'd no more expect my local hardware store to carry premium fasteners than I'd expect my corner stop-'n-rob to carry premium wines and cheeses.

    45. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A port that 0.2% of the active smartphone population actually uses and that's your issue with the phone? Ok.
       
      I've seen the USB adaptors as low as a $1.35 on Amazon. HDMI adapters even come in at around half the price you've stated and will surely fall.
       
      My battery lasts 2 days but that's an iPhone 4. I can't speak for the 5.
       
      I like the size of my screen. If I wanted a tablet I would have bought one. I have to admit that SD card would be nice but I don't miss it because of iCloud and iMatch. And from what I've seen Siri works fine. Turns out I'm not the only one to think that.
       
      Your arguments fall short. The reason you don't understand why people want iPhone is because you have blinders on.

    46. Re:Nope by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Not sure on that... I just really don't like Apple's approach... after getting a google branded nexus 7 tabet, probably going to plunk down for a galaxy nexus phone or maybe a galaxy s3... just depends... at least a few months away, sticking with my horrible zte warp.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    47. Re:Nope by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      This +1 ... I've seen systems run horribly, but with a good UPS in place stable as can be...

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    48. Re:Nope by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Calling others names just because they like something that is different from you...

      Only you know what is correct and only you know what is the best, right? Everyone should just listen to you, and the world would be a better place, wouldn't it?

    49. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the device doesn't have the features I want, the experience will be the shits.

    50. Re:Nope by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Yup. Recently spent nearly $50k for a new machine (512GB ram, 64 CPU, etc.). Seems many people are using low end hardware at the client end and expecting the cloud (which for some applications is not easily distributed) to do the real work.

      64 CPU for only $50K
      Clearly that wasn't a System P.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    51. Re:Nope by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      uh, how many vendors make the Galaxy S III?

      And the galaxy's camera is better than the iPhone 4S Or the iPhone 5? Not according to all the reviews I've seen.

      how often do you build your own apps? I just built my first app last friday - Hello World! And deploying it to my iphone wasn't too difficult...

    52. Re:Nope by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      just curious, how often do you get security or system updates?

    53. Re:Nope by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      so, after a horrible experience with an android phone, your thinking is that another android phone will be better.

      I find that... curious.

    54. Re:Nope by epiccollision · · Score: 1

      you are still using cables?!?! how novel...besides charging if you have to hook your smartphone up to a physical connector you are 2 years behind, sorry.

    55. Re:Nope by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      geez. I didn't realize you are able to get the iPhone 5 today. Did the magical fairy brings yours for you to review, because I have seen exactly *ZERO* reviews out there.

    56. Re:Nope by Guppy · · Score: 1

      Always is a long time. Try visiting your local hardware store and aking about the "premium" brand of nails, or copper wire.

      Funny you should use this example, the premium hardware market has been having problems with counterfeits coming from China (Inferior-grade fasteners being marked as Grade 8, protective coatings that aren't, etc.).

    57. Re:Nope by rueger · · Score: 1

      Always is a long time. Try visiting your local hardware store and asking about the "premium" brand of nails, or copper wire.

      Work in construction for while - there are good nails, and cheap crappy nails. In audio work there are good quality cable connectors, and cheap-ass Chinese stamped out of flimsy sheet metal XLR connectors. For that matter try using cheap Chinese plywood.

      Home Depot may not have "premium" quality nails, but the yards that sell to contractors will sell you the good stuff.

    58. Re:Nope by exomondo · · Score: 1

      There will always be lemmings willing to pay for shiny bragging rights.

      Im not sure how much there is in the way of 'bragging rights', seems you're much more likely to run into someone that has an iPhone than someone that has a Galaxy for example.

    59. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because it's stylish. that's one of the arguments put out there now by one of the shills "style is the new substance". definitely a case of grapes being sour, now that the benchmarks are out, they'll already have inferior hardware for a full year before the next version/ iphone 6 will come out!

    60. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's always another idiot that thinks good devices are about feature checklists rather than user experience.

      And there's always another idiot that will goose-step along with the crowd toward the new shiny. Apple has people like you locked in to their platform - you're not going to migrate all your data and re-purchase all your apps on another platform - you're stuck with the iphone which is why you defend it subjectively and dismiss any features that it doesn't have.

    61. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just built my first app last friday - Hello World! And deploying it to my iphone wasn't too difficult...

      Ouch! $99 for 'Hello World!'.

    62. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to tell me the name of the service that you use that backs up your entire apps catalog, music (over 100gigs), office documents, contacts, calendars, photos for 25 USD a year or less?.

      Does dd count?

      Or maybe any file browser?

    63. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like the size of my screen.

      Well you're boned now, the iPhone5 has a larger screen so it looks like you'll have to switch to another platform or live with the 4S...or will you like the size of the iPhone5 too now because it's an iPhone?

    64. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps they like the UI.

    65. Re:Nope by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

      64 CPU for only $50K
      Clearly that wasn't a System P.

      I'll see your pSeries and raise you a zSeries.

      We just finished upgrading ours, not cheap, but it is fast and does run a ton of linux on it.

    66. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it works 99% of the time? And the dialer doesn't have as near a chance at crashing as is on Android?

    67. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will it rum Windows(tm)

    68. Re:Nope by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      PCs are popular because people feel they have a choice. If they want to buy software from staples they can. Amazon? sure. With apple, there is only one place you can get your software, and only a very limited selection of dealers to get your hardware from.

      While only Apple makes Apple hardware, like Samsung makes Samsung phones (unless you go for the Sansuny Chinese ripoffs), I'm puzzled. There's only one source for Apple Mac software?

      Is it this one? Or perhaps this place of PC software as you mentioned? Or too bad they can't walk into a store either.

      Of course, if you were trying to confuse PC software and iOS software... which is disingenuous at best. Android and iOS, yes, you can get software from torrents, file lockers, Amazon, Google Play, Appslib, and dozens of chinese stores as well, which is a definite advantage for Android.

    69. Re:Nope by Airline_Sickness_Bag · · Score: 1

      Wife has a Camry, I have a Sable. My Sable is far better than her car. I've got 212,000 miles on my car; she has 167,000 miles on her car. (for those outside NA, a Sable is basically a Ford Taurus).

    70. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because I have seen exactly *ZERO* reviews out there.

      blind or stupid? it might help to look...pwned!

    71. Re:Nope by unixisc · · Score: 1

      The fact that iPhone 5 is iPhone + LTE capabilities adds up to something more than 'meh'. Finally, the same technology - OFDMA - available for an iPhone regardless of whether one's sitting @ home accessing the internet from one's ISP, or in the car accessing the internet from one's carrier. Certainly a major selling point. No, I don't doubt that Android or Windows RT phones will have it as well, just saying that iPhone 5 is nothing to scoff @. iPhones until now, yeah.

      I do agree that the standing in line is insane, though. Heck, I don't even do that for Black Fridays. That said, having used an iPod Touch - which is an iPhone w/o the phone - I've been seriously underwhelmed by every Android tablet or phone I saw (didn't see the Samsung Galaxy). I doubt I'll be any more impressed w/ Windows RT or Windows 8 (on Hondo or Clover Trail.

      Back to TFA however, it's too generic. What are they trying to say - everything, from super-computers, core & edge routers, L3 switches and other high end telecom and networking gear, data center servers and all that is going to be a cash drain? I seriously doubt it. I do think one will undoubtedly get more bang for buck for all of these, but I can still see them being lucrative. Yeah, laptops & tablets may become dirt cheap, but they hardly fall under all hardware, or even the most expensive - as the title suggests.

    72. Re:Nope by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Forgot to add - it would be nice if iPhones allowed one to stick in a micro-SD of anything up to the maximum size the iOS file system is capable of handling. It's not fun to use bandwidth to transfer files from 1 phone to another, or to a laptop. Just put in a removable card slot, like some Android phones do, and it wouldn't suffer in comparison in that department.

    73. Re:Nope by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1

      you're doing it wrong. The cloud is meant for applications you can distribute. For those that you can't, it doesn't work nearly as well or you have to sacrifice the uptime generally associated with the cloud. I can end your "cloud" of $50K machines with a backhoe or even just a power failure when the gens don't kick in. In a real cloud, you get regional or even global DR so you can survive even the total loss of an entire DC. If you can fail your application from one $50K machine in one region to another $50K machine in another, I'd warrant you could do the same locally too, and save a lot of money doing it.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    74. Re:Nope by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Saying a Sable is basically a Ford Taurus for those outside NA isn't helpful - the Taurus isn't sold outside NA either. I don't think Ford have an equivalent of the Sable/Taurus *at all* in Europe (the Ford in Europe that filled the same space in the market was the Granada, but Ford no longer produce a car larger than the Mondeo (Contour in NA) in Europe - the next larger thing in the Ford lineup in Europe are only SUVs, vans and people carriers (people carrier = minivan in the US. Not called a minivan in Europe because there was a Mini van, which as its name suggests was a Mini but with a van back end)). Ford basically ceded the space the Taurus fits in to BMW.

    75. Re:Nope by joelito_pr · · Score: 0

      That helps explain why I often see the 12-15 year Toyotas in better condition than some of the newer models out on the street.

    76. Re:Nope by Alioth · · Score: 1

      My Dad's Peugeots would disagree, each did over 300,000 miles. My Audi would disagree about "notoriously unreliable", being 17 years old with 140,000 miles.

    77. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      User experience is much more useful than a feature list when trying to determine if a new product is good.

      Are you that stupid?

    78. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a bunch of FUD. You can buy software for the Mac from Amazon. There are plenty of places you can buy OS X software and there are tons of dealers too. Any time I bring up the user experience and make points about it you Fandroids don't have any counterpoints. You're proving my point for me.
       
      You're the troll here.

    79. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical scenario..
      "I love my iPhone that I've had for about a year. It does everything so well and I am 100% happy. I'd never want anything other than this iPhone in my pocket" But.. that same person is willing to preorder or stand in line to get the next version on release day. Obviously SOMETHING was wrong with your iPhone if you are willing to upgrade immediately to another version that you've never even held, played with, or even looked at at with your own eyes. That is why a lot of people question the reviews and hype that many iPhone users like to give out. Your reviews and opinions on the devices can not be taken seriously. Fanbio is a strong term but in reality, many people fall into that catagory wether they want to admit it or not.

    80. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Kia and Hyundai were not big sellers in the US back then. They did not have many models or an extensive dealer network. BTW, Kia has been around since WW2 and Hyundai/Kia is the forth largest car maker in the world. What does "better" condition" in the context of this discussion even mean? I bought a Hyundai Elantra in 2003. They were priced really well compared to other companies with similar models (10-20% less). I still have that car, it has 150K miles it is driven daily. I was shopping for a new car recently and found that Hyundai cars are no longer "cheaper" than the competition, at least the Elantra and Accent were not. In fact, they seemed more expensive for what you get and they were a little to conservative for me.

    81. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I had just bought a new car every five to ten years I could be like all you yuppies and have six figures invested in transportation by now, but the experiences of learning how to diagnose, remove, and install a $50 fuel pump in a gas station parking lot in a few hours (after being told by a mechanic it would be a $400 repair and take two days), replacing head gaskets for $240 in my driveway with simple hand tools (mechanic quote $1050), and being able to determine the difference between a bad starter ($150) and a bad starter solenoid ($15), have been worth all the headaches.

      You can keep your $20K brand new and shiny compact cars getting 25-30 mpg. My 20 to 30 year old beaters get the same gas mileage-sometimes better-but buying them outright is about the same as one of your monthly payments. You can keep paying $200+ a month for full coverage insurance on top of that. My cars cost me roughly $26 a month for liability. You say you have a warranty? Fancy that, and I'm proud of you, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills...

      PS, in the late 90s I owned a couple of Toyota Tercels and Honda Civics, I'm 0 for 4 on Honda/Toyota reliability, I'll keep my domestic trash. My motto: GM cars run badly WAY longer than other cars bother to run at all.

    82. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong.

      I bought a Honda Civic a couple of years ago. Looked at the Hyundai's. Liked them pretty well. Wanted to buy one.

      Couldn't. The Civic had a better fit and finish, and just handled better.

      But I couldn't stick with the Civic, after giving up my Lexus ES300 (14 years old, still running great). I ended up with a Maxima, with all the toys and packages.

    83. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, you realize that physical buttons that are used repeatedly eventually wear out, right?

      If you google "power button not working [phone type]", I'll bet you that you'll have a ton of complaints about any phone (well, unless the device is absolutely not popular enough for people to complain about.

      I'm not sure why people think that devices from a particular manufacturer are somehow better than others, especially when it comes to real world things.

      For now, why don't you go on Google / google play and see if people have applications to install or other, more convenient workarounds? I know some people who've dropped their phones in water and have non-functioning home / back buttons get away with installing stuff like Swipestarter or the like. I'm sure on Android (and only on Android if you're not going to hack your device) there's a few applications that you can use to wake your device otherwise.

    84. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL wait

      You're comparing a $2000 singular device with:
      1 motherboard, 1 hard drive, 1 cpu, 1 case, "just enough RAM"

      $2400:
      6 motherboard, 4 hard drives, 4 CPUs, 2 cases (why?), "way too much RAM" (not sure what this means, you chose how much RAM to have in your mobos),
      + 2 benchmarks (why? I thought you were going for look and feel. I don't need a benchmark to see for myself if it runs slow. ...

      So what you're telling us is that you're spending LESS THEN $150 on each component. Perhaps, if you saved up just a little more for a decent manufacturer instead of buying from some shady Chinatown store somewhere... It's like comparing a $45 Android tablet to even a $400-500 Android tablet -- the reasonably intelligent person won't expect to be "hand-held" or maybe even "smooth" as with the $45 one.

      I have *ONE SINGLE* P3 that still runs perfectly today albeit a little slow, spent about ~$1400 one time like two decades ago. Still runs "reasonably" well too! (certain videos run choppy, but browsing is okay, though rendering times go up of course).

      Of course, I haven't upgraded the OS past XP, but you seem to like comparing a non-upgraded OS's resource usage with an upgraded OS usage. Well, DUH. Newsflash: Newer OSes are designed for newer hardware! (i.e. you need faster hardware to keep the "look and feel" of being fast)

      I also have a Dual Xeon processor that finally starting to break down after 8-10 years of practically-daily heavy use (8+ hours) since it was a shared machine. I suppose it didn't help for stability that I dropped a screw on the powered up motherboard and shorted something out ages ago =P Still, it runs reasonably well... though the LAN port is now not working properly (incidentally, it's around where I dropped the screw) -- but everything else still is. I did pop in 2GB RAM (up from 512MB) and a new video card (the original Radeon 8500 was moved from the Pentium 3 lol).

      So yeah, nice comparison there Fanboi.

      Stop blaming Windows (or any other OS) for your own fuck-ups.

    85. Re:Nope by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      And what OTHER mass market item do you see this behavior on? could it be...Air Jordans?

      In BOTH cases you have people lined around the block for a product they have never seen, held, and in fact know VERY little about other than the branding, often while having last year's model on their person. They then pay frankly insane prices and are even willing to pay several times MORE than retail to be one of the first to have it, see those that were reselling iPads and Air Jordans on release day, while previously not having a bad word to say about the product they are replacing it with.

      You see this is why I can't fucking STAND Apple fanbois. If you like fashion, if fashion makes you happy? Then please, enjoy, if this makes you happy then I am happy for you. But stop JUMPING THROUGH LOGIC HOOPS coming up with one less believable excuse after another how the iCandy is NOT fashion while you display every single behavior that the hip hoppers do with the Air Jordans, right down to the lines on release day or rushing to pre-order sight unseen.

      Just admit that its fashion and BE HAPPY already! You know why I think they can't stop jumping through logic hoops? Because I think there is a little doubt sitting on their shoulder whispering "you paid too much" so the ONLY way they can try to soothe that doubt is to not only lie to themselves and pretend its not all about branding or fashion but to try to get everyone else to believe that not only is it NOT fashion, like Gucci or Prada, but that they HAD to have made the right choice and anybody that doesn't see that is "buying crap". Its elitist bullshit and if they were actually happy and comfortable with their purchase frankly they shouldn't give a fuck that its fashion!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    86. Re:Nope by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20013286-10391704.html.

      Comes down to horney stupid women. More women's education! Better than goats in 2035!

    87. Re:Nope by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      seriously? you call a 10-15 minutes hands on with a new device a "review" ?

      A preview, maybe. A review? Hell no.

  4. Nope by dreamchaser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There will always be lemmings willing to pay for shiny bragging rights.

  5. Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by faragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Those pads have AllWinner A10/A13 SoC (ARM Cortex A8 @1.2GHz and GPU ARM Mali 400), 512MB of RAM, and 4GB of flash. I see no reason for not having mobile phones with similar technology (the AllWinner A10/A13 is a tiny SoC) for similar price (e.g. Broadcom or Qualcomm could add 3G easily and sell their own cost-killer SoC for smartphones). IMO, is going to change everything, as everyone will be able to have an smartphone.

    1. Re:Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by Graymalkin · · Score: 1

      I've got a cheapo A10 powered tablet running ICS and it sucks. It's sluggish, 3D performance sucks, web video and audio rarely work right in either Chrome or Dolphin, and Flash is an absolute joke. A lot of apps that run without any problems on my Nexus 7 crash mysteriously on it.

      I would hate to imagine my main cell phone being A10 powered and having the same shit reliability as my cheapo tablet. Even a low end cell phone needs to be serviceable as an actual phone (meaning decent battery life and reliability). People aren't going to spend even small amounts of money on something that doesn't work very well.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    2. Re:Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      Well, everyone can have a broken smartphone at least.

    3. Re:Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      www.freaktab.com... go find your tablet, read the forums, and change your OS rom to a custom rom.

    4. Re:Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem with a smartphone isn't the cost of the phone, it's the cost of a dataplan. That's why I don't have a smartphone.

    5. Re:Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Depending on exactly what you do with the smartphone, you don't absolutely need the data plan. If you're at home most of the time, you can have the smartphone use your WiFi connection to make calls (on T-mobile at least), and all the data stuff can go through there. Obviously, not having a dataplan will make it impossible to use your phone for GPS navigation, or for surfing the internet while you're away from home, but as I said, it depends on what you want to use it for. Just the visual voicemail feature is worth it to me, so I don't have to wade through some shitty voicemail system pressing 4, 7, *, etc. and can actually see visually who called. Besides, for GPS you can just buy a TomTom.

    6. Re:Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1G ram == SUCK, especially if you have ICS

    7. Re:Next step: 40-50$ mobile phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have AllWinner A10 based tablet for around $100 and it works very well. 3D is better then my branded LG mobile.

  6. Hyperbole! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    You know, I just can't stand hyperbole! I will have to kill myself over this.

    Why, every single hardware article is about how the PC is DEAD! How hardware is dying! And on and on a million times a day!

    Can't the media stop it?! No they can't. This will go on FOREVER and EVER!

    1. Re:Hyperbole! by Yvan256 · · Score: 2

      Don't kill yourself, AC! Fight fire with fire and start your own hyperbole!

      "The media is DEAD! Printed media, radio and television medias are all dead! People get their news from rumors websites, Facebook and Twitter, we don't need controlled media to tell us about anything! So long and thanks for all the fish!"

    2. Re:Hyperbole! by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      You know, I just can't stand hyperbole! I will have to kill myself over this. Why, every single hardware article is about how the PC is DEAD! How hardware is dying! And on and on a million times a day! Can't the media stop it?! No they can't. This will go on FOREVER and EVER!

      Because the massive growth in mobile dedicated computing [smartphones, Tablets] , is undeniable. Putting your head in the sand, and pretending its will not change the fact.

    3. Re:Hyperbole! by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Oh horseshit, I'm sure people use more TP than they do cloth napkins, do we see "Napkins are dead! Wipe your face with TP!" articles?

      As someone who has been in the trenches since the 386DX here are the FACTS: 1.-Cell phones are disposable and given away or are at so low cost when they come with plan nobody takes care of them, ergo they get trashed often. 2.-On the opposite side you have the PC, which people actually DO pay for out of pocket instead of hidden by a plan and therefor take care of it, 3.-PCs are now insanely overpowered so like washers and dryers they aren't replaced until they die.

      Now those are the facts. Now if you'll excuse me I have a customer bringing over a laptop that needs an OS reinstall, its 5 years old but no point in replacing a Core Duo with 3Gb of RAM over something as trivial as his GF hosed the OS. that is one other thing about PCs, they can actually be worked on whereas cell phones are so cheap and disposable they simply aren't worth the effort, they're designed for the dump.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  7. If premium doesn't sell, we'll have to pay for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The rich and enthusiasts will always be there for us, paying for the overpriced goods because it's the first time it's on the market and the companies that make them need to recoup the cost of R&D and find ways to make it more affordable to produce. If it weren't for them, that $400 TV might cost $3500.

  8. HN by __aaeihw9960 · · Score: 1
    This is over on HN right now, there's some pretty decent discussion related to the history of Pc's, and how we've seen the 'end' of hardware twice at least so far.

    I agree with that - there will always be a market for high-end electronics. Always. Someone will want it. Will it be as large as we've seen? Probably not. But, this article is about turning hardware (cheap tablets actually) into a commodity instead of a luxury.

    What will happen, instead of death, is that we'll see a bottom-floor cheap ass price structure for cheaply made items, and a high-end, expensive price structure for people with expensive tastes, or expensive requirements. Look at the PC - I can get one for $300. Does it do what I want? Nope. So, I spend $2000, and build one that will.

    I can get a tablet for $45, great - I will, and I'll use it for super simple projects - like household automation. But I will also look for the $500 top of the line model that does every-freaking-thing I want it to, to use as my go-to device.

    1. Re:HN by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      PCs flirt with breaking the $400 price floor, then they seem to retreat back upwards. Atom and low end AMDs were good enough, until 7 replaced XP, now they're kind of dogging down. And, I'd swear that my XP running eeeBox PCs are getting slower with every new XP update.

    2. Re:HN by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It's probably mostly thanks to Microsoft and their crap OS. Remember when netbooks came out, running Linux, and how cheap and capable they were? Then MS put the squeeze on all the netbook makers, forced them to dump Linux and put some shitty Windows version on there (which slowed them down and increased the cost), and netbooks quickly became nearly extinct.

      If it weren't for monopoly control of the market, we probably would have super-cheap PCs. That said, I managed to buy a low-end Lenovo laptop with an AMD cpu recently for $270 from Fry's.

    3. Re:HN by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I have half a mind to Kubuntu my eeeBox-Ion, but all it is doing is Samba serve and XBMC, and they've got me convinced that it's going to be a hassle to get the video accelerator drivers working, and I have plenty of other stuff demanding my free-time-attention.

  9. Not cheaper really, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    because somewhere, some poor bastard always pays the difference in terms of lowered wages, slavelike labour, oh and of course there are dollars to save by screwing up the environment by improper mining and waste disposal.

    1. Re:Not cheaper really, by tuppe666 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      because somewhere, some poor bastard always pays the difference in terms of lowered wages, slavelike labour, oh and of course there are dollars to save by screwing up the environment by improper mining and waste disposal.

      As we have seen even Apple use Foxconn

    2. Re:Not cheaper really, by Trogre · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In principle I agree with you 100%. This is what China's manufacturing sector depends on - low wages and low environmental accountability, two area where he west cannot (and should not) compete. This is also one of the reasons I buy locally manufactured goods where possible.

      However in the case of tablets and smartphones the big name brands are manufactured in very similar, if not identical, conditions to the cheap ones,. In that light the appeal of expensive ones evaporates.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    3. Re:Not cheaper really, by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Informative

      With electronics, there's no such thing as "locally manufactured" for the most part. The best you can do is locally assembled, as it's possible to buy components here and PCBs and have them assembled in the USA (at a very, very high cost; I've looked into it; I think the military contractors are keeping the prices very high). But the components themselves (resistors, capacitors, ICs, etc.) are mostly made in Asia these days, with some things made in Italy.

    4. Re:Not cheaper really, by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

      Not always.
      Technology can be a force multiplier. Consider how the invention of the combine harvester could bring down the costs of grain without enslaving anyone. True it made many people redundant but you can't lower costs without making someone redundant - that's kind of the definition of reduced costs.
      Look at it this way would you rather be an average guy in 18th Century America, or an average guy in 21st Century America? Who do you think has the higher standard of living?
      And before you say slave labour in China, it is my understanding (please correct me) that they have the choice to work in factories or on the farms. So while still deplorable that it's like this, it is still an improvement on the last hundred years.

      So not perfect, but a lot better than it was and getting better all the time thanks to technology.

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    5. Re:Not cheaper really, by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      By Chinese standards, jobs at Foxconn are good, well paid jobs. That's why there are queues of people outside the factories looking to get jobs there. Don't forget that Mike Daisey's stories about Foxconn turned out to be a tissue of lies.

    6. Re:Not cheaper really, by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      By Chinese standards, jobs at Foxconn are good, well paid jobs. That's why there are queues of people outside the factories looking to get jobs there. Don't forget that Mike Daisey's stories about Foxconn turned out to be a tissue of lies.

      I'm sure the reports of suicide nets and riots are all lies. I'm sure when the simpering Apple executive describing why American will will ensure a phone is never made again be made in America to the president, described waking them the workforce up in the night to get them to make last minute changes to the iphone...and giving them a biscuit.

      Personally I find it disgusting you think that its acceptable that workers are treated that way anywhere.

    7. Re:Not cheaper really, by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      I'm sure the reports of suicide nets and riots are all lies.

      Again, if you remember, when the story of suicides came to slashdot, people here quickly did the sensible thing and compared the suicide rate per 100,000 people: Foxconn vs China as a whole. Result, Foxconn employees commit suicide significantly less often than the average Chinese person.

      Some people just can't cope with large numbers and don't get the logic that any group of hundreds of thousands of people will have multiple suicides in the group.

      Riots? You mean the 7 new employees that were out for a meal and had a fight with the owner of a restaurant. And a bunch of their colleagues joined in. Nothing to do with the factory or working practices. Just a brawl in a company town.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-18363929

      Now, even if these things you mention weren't lies and distortions, you'd then have to consider that Foxconn don't just manufacture for Apple, but many other brands. You undoubtably own products made by Foxconn in China.

      Your liking for one smartphone over another causes you to ape and repeat the exposed liar Mike Daisey. How pathetic is that. Meditate on it for a while. Is this really the kind of as person you want to be?

    8. Re:Not cheaper really, by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the reports of suicide nets and riots are all lies.

      >Again, if you remember, when the story of suicides came to slashdot, people here quickly did the sensible thing and compared the suicide rate per 100,000 people: Foxconn vs China as a whole. Result, Foxconn employees commit suicide significantly less often than the average Chinese person.Some people just can't cope with large numbers and don't get the logic that any group of hundreds of thousands of people will have multiple suicides in the group.>Riots? You mean the 7 new employees that were out for a meal and had a fight with the owner of a restaurant. And a bunch of their colleagues joined in. Nothing to do with the factory or working practices. Just a brawl in a company town.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-18363929Now, even if these things you mention weren't lies and distortions, you'd then have to consider that Foxconn don't just manufacture for Apple, but many other brands. You undoubtably own products made by Foxconn in China.

      Your liking for one smartphone over another causes you to ape and repeat the exposed liar Mike Daisey. How pathetic is that. Meditate on it for a while. Is this really the kind of as person you want to be?

      The only Liar here is you.

      Anti-Suicide Nets - http://www.dailytech.com/Foxconn+Installs+AntiSuicide+Nets+at+Its+Facilities/article18877.htm
      Riot - http://www.dailytech.com/Foxconn+Installs+AntiSuicide+Nets+at+Its+Facilities/article18877.htm

      Please don't reply to my posts your willingness to distort the truth for your shiny Apple I find distasteful.

    9. Re:Not cheaper really, by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      Your twice repeated link does absolutely nothing to counter the facts I gave. You are repeating things that have long since been shown false, even after I've reminded you that they have been debunked.

      Is it a general thing for Android fanboys to be so deceitful and immoral in thir FUD attempts, or is it just you?

    10. Re:Not cheaper really, by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      BTW, in an earlier message you said this. "Personally having played with a Huawei g300, a phone eight times cheaper than the iPhone"

      Those devices are also manufactured in Shenzhen and at prices ("eight times less") that don't allow for pay or conditions any better than Foxconn, and in all probability they are far worse.

      You're not only dishonest, you're a massive hypocrite.

      Of course you're going to dishonestly reject this comment too. But you and I both know what I say is true. But you're the one who has to live with yourself. Sucks to be you.

  10. Gourmet food dead by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gourmet food must also be dead because you can feed yourself off of cheap multivitamins and cheap microwaveable burritos and tap water.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    1. Re:Gourmet food dead by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Gourmet food serves roughly the same size market it has for the last 100 years - but, sadly, not expressed per capita but in raw numbers. Population grows, but those who choose to afford good food do not.

    2. Re:Gourmet food dead by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      paying for really expensive restaurant meals has really diminishing returns after 60 bucks per dinner - even in most expensive cities of the world. kind of like hw.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Gourmet food dead by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      May I recommend:

      http://www.chandon.com/etoile-restaurant.html

      Nothing I'd want to do on a regular basis, but an experience worth the price - so much more than a day at a theme park.

  11. Don't care about his opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article lacks important information. This guys opinion doesn't interest me, I only want to know where I can buy the $45 Android 4 tablet!

    1. Re:Don't care about his opinion by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

      Article says. Shenzhen.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:Don't care about his opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article lacks important information. This guys opinion doesn't interest me, I only want to know where I can buy the $45 Android 4 tablet!

      From TFA:
      "I thought discovering the A-Pad was pretty exciting. So I was dismayed to find that the week after I got back from China, a device that looks a lot like my A-Pad was on sale at Fry’s Electronics for $79. No brand listed. The process has already begun."

    3. Re:Don't care about his opinion by RenderSeven · · Score: 1

      I dont know about $45 but this is one place that has lots of cheap tablets and phones. It gives you a good idea of where the bottom of commodity pricing is. Everything here probably violates someones design patents and has no royalties priced in, so I figure this is what hardware costs with almost no R&D, no carrier markup, no branding costs, no sales/marketing/distributor costs, etc. I did buy a 7" tablet from someone similar a few years ago, for $79... it worked OK (Android 1.5) but nothing to brag about.

    4. Re:Don't care about his opinion by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

      The guy's clearly out of the loop. The process began a while ago. CVS, Big Lots, and the like have been selling low-end Android tablets for $75-100 (depending on whether they're on sale that week) for about a year. The only new part is having ICS on them. And that you can get a 1920x1080 tablet in the $160 range. I'm thinking of picking up one of those to hold me over until the 2560x1600 tablets come out next year.

  12. Not so much about parts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The part quality hasn't played significant role in tablet manufacturing. The part count itself is relatively low and what consumers really care is build quality. You really cannot expect $45 device to survive if you knock it to the floor from sofa but the build quality on more expensive devices give the device a fighting chance.

    1. Re:Not so much about parts by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      The part quality hasn't played significant role in tablet manufacturing. The part count itself is relatively low and what consumers really care is build quality. You really cannot expect $45 device to survive if you knock it to the floor from sofa but the build quality on more expensive devices give the device a fighting chance.

      You have to remember that the iPhone is worth in parts only a sixth of its price, a little over twice the price of the device in question, and that's for an allegedly cutting edge product [sic]. Have a look at those cheaper Android phones, You will be shocked at how impressive they are.

    2. Re:Not so much about parts by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      He wasn't talking about specs. He was talking about build quality. Pointing out that there are cheaper Android phones than an iPhone actually helps to illustrate his point: the iPhone has better build quality than them.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
  13. Hardware is dead... by MpVpRb · · Score: 1

    As a high profit business

    Lots of businesses survive on thin margins

  14. Behind the times much? by djdanlib · · Score: 1

    This guy is a little behind with his prediction, since it's already happening. I remember seeing those predatory lenders outside college campuses with their "Sign up for our credit card, get a free mp3 player" booths *at least* ten years ago. Car dealers have been giving out iPhones and such as promo deals for years. Some banks have advertised free stuff like that to my snail mail. Sign up for a 2-year phone contract, you get a ~$450 subsidy towards a phone. Right now in September 2012, you can get an iPhone 4 or lower-end Android / WinMo free. It's a giveaway to entice you into purchasing a service.

  15. Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by OS24Ever · · Score: 1

    Things aren't expensive because (shocker) MORE PEOPLE USE THEM.

    It has nothing to do with people making stuff expensive for expensive sake, it has everything to do with the fact that when a new iPhone came out two million people ordered one in 24 hours.

    hell five years ago if a device that did computery stuff did anything close to that people would have freaked out. Now? iPhone 5 is SUCH a disappointment.

    --

    As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

    1. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      it has everything to do with the fact that when a new iPhone came out two million people ordered one in 24 hours.

      ...and 1.3 million but an android phone every day! launch or not, Apples market share is simply slipping away.

    2. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it has everything to do with the fact that when a new iPhone came out two million people ordered one in 24 hours.

      ...and 1.3 million but an android phone every day! launch or not, Apples market share is simply slipping away.

      If you mean increased by 80% as slipping away.
      http://www.bgr.com/2012/05/01/apple-samsung-idc-market-share/

    3. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is no possible way that 1.3 million android phones are sold every day.

      World wide units shipments;1st Quarter 2012.

      Vendor: Unit Shipments
      Samsung: 42,400,000
      Apple: 35,100,000
      Nokia: 11,900,000
      HTC: 6,900,000
      Others: 39,100,00

      Now assuming that every smart phone sold by Samsung, HTC and other is an android phone, that makes 88,200,000 total Android phones sold in the quarter.
      365/4=91.25 rounded up 92 days.

      88,200,000/92 ~ 960,000 phones sold per day rounded up.

      Source

    4. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by tuppe666 · · Score: 2

      If you mean increased by 80% as slipping away.
      http://www.bgr.com/2012/05/01/apple-samsung-idc-market-share/

      No I mean the year on year drop worldwide from 18.8% to 16.9% and yes my link is to IDC figures. Perhaps you should be a less US centric...the internet has been around for sometime. FYI Androids Market share grew from 46.9 % to 68.1% in the same period.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/worldwide-market-share-for-smartphones-a-market-dominated-by-apple-and-android/2012/09/11/c3e683d2-fc38-11e1-98c6-ec0a0a93f8eb_story.html

    5. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      There is no possible way that 1.3 million android phones are sold every day.

      World wide units shipments;1st Quarter 2012.

      Sorry you are mistaken its not *Shipped* or *Sold* its *Activated*. http://www.rethink-wireless.com/2012/09/06/android-activations-hit-13m.htm. It also includes tablets although does not include none Google android.

    6. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      I know, no way it could be 350,000 more than 960,000. As every phone that is sold has to be shipped in the very same quarter. And no one, certainly, ever buys a used or refurb phone...

    7. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You said,

      ...and 1.3 million but an android phone every day

      Ignoring that you cannot spell the word buy correctly. You claimed that 1.3 million android phone are bought everyday. You were proven wrong.

    8. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rate of purchasing cannot exceed the rate of manufacturing and you cannot count refurb or used phone sales for market share.

    9. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you trying using that underdeveloped brain of yours. I quoted international sales.
      http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/idc-smartphone-645x241.png

    10. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Ignoring that you cannot spell the word buy correctly. You claimed that 1.3 million android phone are bought everyday. You were proven wrong.

      LOL this is the thing when you correct someone you don't get things wrong like the plural of "Phone". As for being proved wrong. I am happy to be proved wrong. I clarified my statement, but it doesn't discount my original point, or invalidate my statement. See this is the thing. 1.3 million Android devices activated daily...Thats better than Apples *Shipped* figures [Apple say Sales when they mean shipped], but however you apportion that Apples Phone figures look weak, if your implying a greater proportion to tablets, it makes Apples Phones and Tablets Phones look weak. :).

      Personally I'm happy with Android Activating 90 Million Phones vs Apples 37 Million and 27 Million Androids Million Tables vs Apples [in a launch quarter no less] 12 million. Personally I think that Android tablets are selling well especially this quarter...but that well!?

    11. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      Actually, Apple's the one that seems to consistently give out numbers sold, not shipped (when they give out numbers at all)--unlike, say, Samsung: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Tab#Sales

      What's the difference between Android activations and sales? Isn't a device only activated when it's sold? Those activation numbers are still higher than the shipped/sold numbers, so it still looks impossible. (Unless a single device can be activated twice or more, and those extra activations count in the total--in which case, the number is meaningless.)

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    12. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

      A refurbished phone is not a new sale. The market share does not change when you purchase a refurbished phone, because the number of phones sold does not change. It's the same reason why video game publishers hate used game sales so much.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    13. Re:Some how 'value' and 'computer' got screwed up. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Actually, Apple's the one that seems to consistently give out numbers sold, not shipped (when they give out numbers at all)--unlike, say, Samsung: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Tab#Sales

      What's the difference between Android activations and sales? Isn't a device only activated when it's sold? Those activation numbers are still higher than the shipped/sold numbers, so it still looks impossible. (Unless a single device can be activated twice or more, and those extra activations count in the total--in which case, the number is meaningless.)

      FYI on Apple Sold to quote the SEC 10K filing from Apple:
      "Part II. Item 7. Page 26
      Critical Accounting Policies and Estimates > Revenue recognition

      Net sales consist primarily of revenue from the sale of hardware, software, digital content and applications, peripherals, and service and support contracts. The Company recognizes revenue when persuasive evidence of an arrangement exists, delivery has occurred, the sales price is fixed or determinable, and collection is probable. Product is considered delivered to the customer once it has been shipped and title and risk of loss have been transferred. For most of the Company’s product sales, these criteria are met at the time the product is shipped. For online sales to individuals, for some sales to education customers in the U.S., and for certain other sales, the Company defers recognition of revenue until the customer receives the product because the Company retains a portion of the risk of loss on these sales during transit. "

      So please stop saying that. As for Samsung What are you on about. Android is by Google the original announcement https://plus.google.com/u/0/110023707389740934545/posts/R5YdRRyeTHM its by Hugo Barra.to quote "Today is a big day for Android... 500 million devices activated globally, and over 1.3 million added every single day." September 12th It activated means just that official Android devices [Not Amazons] activated at Google...that means in customers hands switched on :)

  16. HW careers (EE) are dead ends, move to SW (CS) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was an IC design engineer until recently, having gone through a top-3 EECS university, and a top-10 EECS university for Ph.D. I chose the wrong part of EECS to study (the EE); it doesn't matter when you know how to design transistors, design a low-power unique/new memory, or ADC, or whatever. Hardware engineers get paid sh*t, compared to CS. Why are my colleagues and I (PhD EE) getting paid 100-110K, whereas CS majors with Masters get paid 100K easily? Yes yes, margins are higher in CS. This just goes to show that the proper path to success in EECS is CS, not EE.

    I'd love to do a startup in EE, but the costs are prohibitively high. It costs 100's of K to even get CAD software licenses (HSPICE, Mentor Calibre, Cadence ICFB, Synopyis Design Compiler, etc); tapeout costs are 10's to 100's of K for prototype chips to be made at TSMC, UMC, etc fabs; whereas it costs me nothing to get the resources needed to design in Django (Python), Ruby on Rails (Ruby), Zend (PHP), etc etc. Why should we (the same smart ones in HW) spend all our hard effort in HW when our brains could easily compete in SW?

    Yes yes, the barrier of entry in CS is low, so its quite competitive. Duh. However, take the best EE talent and provided they have CS passion, they can easily compete in the CS market.

    Yes, I know, alot of HW people aren't suited for SW and vice versa. However, there are alot who are; most of my EE friends in EECS aced their CS classes, too, and were quite easily at the top of their CS classes.

    1. Re:HW careers (EE) are dead ends, move to SW (CS) by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Stay in hardware but go with standard hardware ICs and custom firmware/software. Not everything requires on a full-sized computer. The Arduino and Raspberry Pi are perfect examples. You wouldn't waste a mini-ITX computer and a 17" LCD to display Twitter feeds but you wouldn't even blink about doing the same thing with an ATmega and a 20x2 characters display.

    2. Re:HW careers (EE) are dead ends, move to SW (CS) by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I think you're confusing which EE. Move to alternative energy power systems, about 60 percent of your time will be coding for distributed power systems like wind solar hydro wave geothermal, with some really fun field trips.

      The UW offers an evening certificate in that for people with a base EE, or you can do it on weekends.

      That's the growth area in the US and Canada.

      But since I started computing in the 1970s it has always been true that you have to relearn half of what you do every two years in software, whereas you have to relearn 90 percent of what you do every two years in hardware. Get thee to a college or university. Education doesn't stop nowadays.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:HW careers (EE) are dead ends, move to SW (CS) by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      If you can't afford a tool or a solution for your startup because of lack of investment you have to turn to a cheaper, inferior but workable, tool or solution and deal with the pain involved. Doing a startup without major investment upfront is, as you've pointed out, an unsolvable equation, yet every now and then there are people who manage to smash through and start a new business from virtually zero.

      I'm not convinced that you would actually love to do a startup in EE.

    4. Re:HW careers (EE) are dead ends, move to SW (CS) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, I see the problem. You chose engineering for the money.

    5. Re:HW careers (EE) are dead ends, move to SW (CS) by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, due to Twitter insisting on using oAuth for the API (and basically encryption everywhere), a modest microcontroller like an ATmega can no longer be used to tweet a modest 140 character message without help from outside.

    6. Re:HW careers (EE) are dead ends, move to SW (CS) by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Reading Twitter feeds was merely an example of using a microcontroller for tasks where a regular computer would be overkill.

  17. incoherent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could you editors please proof-read these submissions? That's the most incoherent slashdot synopsis I have ever read.

    1. Re:incoherent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the submissions are OK and the editor makes them incoherent. I've only submitted a couple of stories - only one made the front page. However my text was changed and the link I submitted for the story was replaced with a different one. The editors are apparently there to screw things up like this or change the links to inferior stories on partner sites or something.

  18. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These companies will continue to make cheaper hardware for the low-end markets and use the profits from those to partially fund the higher-end markets.
    Those higher-end hardwares might get a tiny bit more expensive, but not by much. (might, being the keyword here)

    They'll never die out though.
    Casual computer users don't define the market, despite what you'd consider the most reliable market.
    They are a useful profit-producer, but reliability from them is like relying on a junkie to watch your medicine cabinets in a hospital.
    Nintendo experienced this pretty hard with the Wii after the number of games being sold slowed to a near halt all of a sudden for the most part. Casuals only need a few things to keep them happy, after that they tend not to want anything else unless it gets advertised to hell and back.
    Businesses are still the main target for most hardware. Especially consumables like storage, server racks, the usual large-scale things.

    The day they die out is the day the singularity happened and we have reached a time of greatness. That ain't happening for a while, we simply don't have the resources to allow it. We are hitting points where we are trying to find some rather troublesome alternatives that simply don't work well without a massive undertaking by us.
    And if things get any worse than they are now, we could be very close to an all-out resource-war. Nobody wants that to happen again, not with the stuff we have now. Not with all the progress we have made.
    Hopefully we will begin to reach the resource-rich age in this half of the century with ventures like Planetary Resources. If we don't... I fear for our children, they might live to see the end of civilization.

  19. Since the 1980's by carrier+lost · · Score: 1

    Actually, pretty much since the start of personal computing, in my experience, anyway, the computer you want is always about $3000US

    Not sure how that applies to tablets or phones or portable gamers.

    1. Re:Since the 1980's by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The desktop PC at my first job cost 2 months' salary, had a 15" color monitor, and took 5-10 minutes to compile the product.

      The desktop PC at my current job cost 2 days' salary, has 2 24" 1080p panels, and takes 5-10 minutes to compile the product, while I surf the web - including HD video, and stream Pandora.

    2. Re:Since the 1980's by carrier+lost · · Score: 1

      And I still want a $3000US computer

    3. Re:Since the 1980's by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      You've taken well to the brainwashing

    4. Re:Since the 1980's by carrier+lost · · Score: 1
  20. Yes low cost junk replaces well made & support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes like the 100 USD Android tablet my sister bought. Poorly made. Low res screen, grainy camera. search the internet support.
    Never really got it working. It was replaced with an iPod Touch. Smaller more money, but worked. the fight on price alone is killing the PC industry.
    The assumption that a pretty good 45 dollar item is as good as a 300 dollar one is the hole in the argument.

  21. Yes, get them as prizes all the time by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Virtually any tech event for a CIO or manager nowadays they throw in a free tablet as a door prize for most events.

    May not have filtered down to the code monkeys yet, but it's already happening upstream.

    Fwiw, both of my last two home computers were made from Cyber Tuesday parts orders for about $500, or $650 with OEM OS and sales tax. I'm just too lazy to build my own tablets. But if they sold kit parts, you could easily build them yourself. The markup on tablets for non-Apple ones is very very slim, it's only the Apple iPads that really make much money.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  22. $45? i guess it deppends where by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because i can't find one in either europe or i guess the usa as well. $45 in Shenzhen only i guess, $450+ for the rest of the world.

    Where's the cheapness he's talking about?

    1. Re:$45? i guess it deppends where by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Because i can't find one in either europe or i guess the usa as well. $45 in Shenzhen only i guess, $450+ for the rest of the world.

      Where's the cheapness he's talking about?

      Not sure about your locale, but I know the Big Lots' wholesale/closeout stores in this area keep a rotating stock of cheap, no-name Android tablets for around $45-65.

      FYI, you get what you pay for.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  23. Yep by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    A great area to look at it home audio. Time was, everything was pretty expensive. There wasn't really a cheap option. When cleaning out my grandfather's house my father found an old Allied Electronics catalogue from 1970. He and I had fun looking through it, and he found several items he used to have. They were around the lower end of what you could get from it, around $150 for a stereo receiver. That works out to about $900 today.

    Well when you do some research you find that you can get $150, or even cheaper, receivers these days. However you can also get $900+ ones. I'm not even talking ultra expensive audiophile crap, I'm talking stuff you can get from Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, and so on.

    People buy these because in addition to more features you get better build quality and so on. A simple example is that cheaper Denons are built in China, the more expensive ones are built in Japan, because they can get tighter quality control.

    While cheap devices are no doubt popular both because they allow people who could otherwise not afford them to have one and because many people look only at short term cost, that doesn't mean expensive devices go away. Some people want more than the cheap devices, or simply want something that will last longer.

    Personally I'm quite a fan of buying better quality things to have them last longer. Not only do I like things being nice, but I find it actually costs me less in the long run since I end up replacing them less frequently.

    1. Re:Yep by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I bought a series of $20 DVD players, they were just so irresistible in the store - at $20 you'll spend more in gas driving to a couple of stores to shop the deal - no brainer, if it works for a year it's a winner.

      They used to work for 2 or 3 years, then I got a couple that only lasted 6 or so months - finally got a $200 Denon about 5 years ago and it's still running like a champ.

      Of course, it didn't have HDMI, etc. etc., so now it's technologically outmoded, but still does what it always did well, and those half dozen $20 players are leaching toxic materials into the landfills. See, it's actually a Chinese conspiracy to export all their poisonous trace elements overseas....

    2. Re:Yep by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      A great area to look at it home audio. Time was, everything was pretty expensive. There wasn't really a cheap option. When cleaning out my grandfather's house my father found an old Allied Electronics catalogue from 1970. He and I had fun looking through it, and he found several items he used to have. They were around the lower end of what you could get from it, around $150 for a stereo receiver.

      You really should take a look at this Radio Shack catalog from 1970: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1970/. Stereo receivers for $99. "All-in-one" (receiver, turntable, speakers) systems for under a $100.
       
      There's almost always been a "cheap" option.

    3. Re:Yep by Miamicanes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The REAL problem is that as cheap, corner-cut bottom-dollar hardware becomes the ubiquitous norm, the cost of getting something even SLIGHTLY better begins to go up exponentially because Joe Sixpack and ten million of his friends are no longer absorbing most of its fixed costs. You end up in a situation like we have today, where the worst and cheapest of cheap hardware enjoys 99.997% of the economy-of-scale benefit, and the hardware YOU want to buy ends up costing 4-16 times as much, and isn't 4-16 times better. So, we end up with things like optical-disc players that literally and physically break after just a few months. 45" or larger LCD TVs that cost $400, but randomly die after 9-30 months and can't be meaningfully repaired because TV repair shops aren't staffed by EEs with hot air rework tools, service manuals barely exist & are often reverse-engineered, and it usually ends up costing more to pay someone to TRY and fix it (with no assurance of success) than to throw it to the curb and buy a new one, even if the actual problem is a cold solder joint somewhere.

      Or, my pet peeve: the disappearance of proper deinterlacing chips, like Faroudja's DCDi that could somehow make ratty analog interlaced broadcast video look good, in favor of cheaper solutions that completely brutalize the quality of scaled 1080i60 video & anything that didn't start out as 24fps film.

      Not to mention my other pet peeve -- "720p class" TVs whose specs are basically fraudulent & work by treating 1080i60 like fake 540p60, and hacking both fake 540p60 and 720p60 down to 480p60. Hint: any TV smaller than 32 inches advertised as "720p class" is VERY unlikely to actually have 1280x720 physical resolution (or better), unless it's explicitly advertised as having a 1366x768 "computer" mode. It completely blows my mind that it's even legal to advertise a panel having a physical resolution of 850x480 (give or take) as "720p class" just because it's capable of converting 720p60 and 1080i60 into something it can display on the fly instead of freaking out and displaying an error message. Or "720p60/1080p30" camcorders whose actual video quality looks like a $20 USB webcam, because they're feeding source video that's NOWHERE close to 1280x720, let alone 1920x1080, into a media processor ASIC, encoding it as 4mbit/sec h.264, and calling it "720p60" or "1080p30" just because that's its nominal encoding resolution.

      IMHO, "spec inflation" is the biggest crime of all. If $80 camcorders were required by law to be advertised based on their image sensor resolution rather than their encoded output resolution & disclose their dynamic range at a given signal/noise ratio, and $99 19" TVs had to disclose their physically-addressable pixel resolutions & be advertised as 18.51" TVs, we wouldn't have nearly the problem we do now, because it would make their absence of quality more obvious. Unfortunately, manufacturers are now allowed to sell garbage disguised as real products, and simultaneously destroy the market for the real thing.

    4. Re:Yep by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      So even back in 1970, the Radio Shack stuff was crap?

    5. Re:Yep by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      They were around the lower end of what you could get from it, around $150 for a stereo receiver. That works out to about $900 today.

      I live in a house from the late 60s that has speaker wires strung all over the place to a single location in the den, simply because it was too expensive to stick individual receivers in more than one room. Today you just get a Denon distributed system or a bunch of Airport Express units for less money and have something that is even more versatile.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:Yep by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Depends on whose standards you use.

    7. Re:Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And sounds faggoty as shit.

      I've been into electronics stores recently and it is impossible to get passable speakers, amplifiers, anything, because everyone just accepts total shit.

    8. Re:Yep by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      You can hook any amp you want up to the Sonos or Apple receivers.

      In any event, it all sounds better than the sound after it's been through 50 feet of 60s speaker wire.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:Yep by CronoCloud · · Score: 2

      In the old days, RS house brand stuff was considered a good bang for the buck.

    10. Re:Yep by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Not to mention my other pet peeve -- "720p class" TVs whose specs are basically fraudulent & work by treating 1080i60 like fake 540p60, and hacking both fake 540p60 and 720p60 down to 480p60. Hint: any TV smaller than 32 inches advertised as "720p class" is VERY unlikely to actually have 1280x720 physical resolution (or better), unless it's explicitly advertised as having a 1366x768 "computer" mode. I

      I have a 19" 720p/1080i LCD TV I picked up at Wal-Mart back in 08. it's got HDMI,VGA,Component,S-Video,Composite, and RF. It's native resolution is actually 1440x900, which you will get if you hook up a PC via HDMI or VGA So it's possible to get one...you just have look at the specs on the box (if they're there), or check online.

      It's native resolution is 1440x900.

    11. Re:Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember, in 1970 a dollar was worth a lot more than today.

    12. Re:Yep by mla_anderson · · Score: 1

      50 feet of just about any wire isn't going to affect your audio signal unless you wrap it around the AC mains. It won't be an antenna in those frequencies (well it is a 1/1000 wave antenna I guess). If it's as small as 22 gauge wire you'll still only lose about 10% power, if it's 18 - 14 gauge closer to 1% loss at most. It's pretty hard to screw up the transmission of analog audio over wire inside a house.

      --
      Sig is on vacation
    13. Re:Yep by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      There is definitely AC hum, but I don't have golden ears and I listen to hip-hop, pop, and punk with some beginners jazz and funk mixed in for good measure. I grew up listening to hissy audio tapes and scratched phonographs. FM radio sounded (and still sounds) incredibly crisp and clear.

      I will admit to being able to hear digital artifacts at 128kbps in the older MP3s.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  24. Derp, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without today's new hardware, there won't be cheap hardware tomorrow.

  25. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like your sister had no clue about how to select one. I got a 10" one with Allwinner A10 SoC, 1080 x 1920 screen and excellent 4 megapixel camera for $75 (with free two day Amazon prime shipping). This came with Ice Cream Sandwich (and no play store, which I had to install by copying an apk, apart from which it was as good as any tablets you get).
     
    And I look forward to the rumored quad core Allwinner SoC based tablets.

  26. This is partly true, but is it news? by Trogre · · Score: 1

    In the tablet market at least, there's little compelling reason to go for anything over $200. With the likes of the Boxchip A13 there's hardly any point going above $150 unless you need some premium feature like quad-core.

    Seriously, how many people on /. haven't bought sub-$90 Android tablets from Chinese resellers in the past year or so?

    I try to buy locally-made products where I can, but given the big name tablets and phones are made in the same province as the cheap stuff, there's no advantage there.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    1. Re:This is partly true, but is it news? by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

      i'm afraid my chinese import tablet will be made with lead-coated buttons covered in cyanide powder, or i'd buy one. natch.

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
  27. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by DogDude · · Score: 1

    "Allwinner"? That sounds like a real quality hardware company, there. Good luck with that.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  28. Servers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Show me a server that will run your "fog-driven" er sorry cloud-driven tablet that has cheap hardware.

  29. On sale at Fry's by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 4, Funny

    56 dollars

    For the price I paid for my iPad,I could load up my backpack with 10 of these. Imagine a beowulf of tablets!

    1. Re:On sale at Fry's by evilviper · · Score: 1

      You could buy 10 of them, but you would keep throwing them into the wall after trying to use them for 5 minutes...

      With computers, the input devices are dirt cheap... a keyboard and mouse is $5. And if the manufacturer goes too cheap, you replace it with something better. But none of that is true with a tablet/phone.

      Cheap tablets have cheap touch-screens. They're infuriatingly unresponsive, and then often glitchy as well. After about the 10th time of hurting your thumb, jabbing it into the screen, and giving it a small slide to scroll down a page, only to have it fling down to the bottom, and register a click on 3 random links, you'll consider your $56 purchase to be vastly too expensive... In fact they'd have to PAY ME to take their crap tablets off their hands.

      These things are digital picture frames, and nothing more... certainly nothing requiring any interaction. If you could find a ROM with a vanilla Linux installation, I'd buy a few, and use them as TVs, laptops (with bluetooth keyboards and mice), and a few other basic tasks, but NOTHING that requires EVER touching those screens... they still haunt my nightmares to this day.

      And while that's the huge issue, it's not the only problem. Second on the list is low-res screens, that look as if you've got an old CRT television that you're sitting too close to, so you see every dot, and a big island of black around it... Or the frustration of slow flash and CPUs, where a little background activity makes your foreground tasks suddenly unresponsive, and when it comes back, your repeated taps suddenly register and off into bizarro world your tablet goes. And how about tiny, low capacity batteries that are running critical just moments after you un-tether yourself from the wall? Or how about that tiny footnote that says "ARM11", which hints that 15% of the Android programs you'd want to use, and maybe ALL the multimedia apps you'd want to use on a tablet (along with Firefox, Flash, and MANY others), won't run.

      I anxiously await cheap portable phones and tablets, and even ARM/MIPS/etc-powered Linux netBooks. But for right now, the low-end Android market is an utter cespool of worthless crap, with no way to differentiate the good from the bad (even Samsung has put out some crap) except actually trying the stuff out, in person, or careful reading of customer reviews on sites like Amazon and Walmart. But today, I consider my cheap tablet one of the worst purchases I've ever made, and my $125 EeePC one of the best purchases I've ever made. PCs still rule, and things like Hulu requiring a subscription for Android/IOS while Hulu Desktop is free for Linux, makes it clear that a netBook is a vastly better deal than a tablet, even for all the tasks tablets are supposedly strong at.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  30. Sounds like alternate reality...let's make one! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ever since Apple went bankrupt after it tried to sell that disastrous mp3 "pod" player thing in the early 2000s (not as much space as my Nomad but more expensive? no thanks!), we've known that the market for high-end, "premium" products had finally closed up. And it's a good thing too, since the last thing we need are more sheeple with a superiority complex getting suckered into bad deals. The Dells my family use have been running rock solid (well, aside from the swollen/leaking capacitor issue, but everyone gets those, even Compaq), and my netbook is a great experience compared to those high-end UMPC devices that ended up sinking the tablet market once and for all. [Ed. note: not everything is a loss in this alternate universe ;)]

    I mean, in some other industries, such as cars, high-end products tend to have features that find their way into the more commodity lines after a few years, but we never saw that happening with computers or those weird "smartphone" things that Handspring and Palm used to make before they went belly-up (why would you want to pay hundreds of dollars to have your e-mail with you?). And now that we've been away from premium computers and electronics for awhile, I can't imagine what we're possibly missing out on, to be honest. I mean, my top-of-the-line RAZR V15 can display thousands of colors with the best of them and is easy to use for texting, came free with a two-year contract, and they even added "multiphonic" ringtones with the latest model.

    Personally, I feel that we're better off for being rid of the high-end electronics market. It added nothing of value, no one was buying into it, and it's allowed us to refocus on the products that are actually selling, which are all going for free or close to it. Speaking of which, has anyone seen that the V16 will only have 128MB of space for songs? What the hell? That's so 2010, but at least it beats the crap out of the stuff the Sony Ericsson fanboys are still using.

    1. Re:Sounds like alternate reality...let's make one! by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Ever since Apple went bankrupt after it tried to sell that disastrous mp3 "pod" player thing in the early 2000s (not as much space as my Nomad but more expensive? no thanks!),

      I remember my history being different, Apple had an MP3 player at EVERY price point...and still do. The iPod was more expensive than the competition, but unlike the iPhone/iPad not by a lot, but they had branding and were universal, a monopoly in every sense.

    2. Re:Sounds like alternate reality...let's make one! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      The initial iPod (now called "Classic") was not at every price point, and was very much a high-end mp3 player. It wasn't until the mini came out over two years later and the shuffle the year after that that they really started to go lower, but by then, Apple had gone bankrupt in my alternate history.

    3. Re:Sounds like alternate reality...let's make one! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should read your post through a pair of google glasses. Puts it in a whole new context man! I think they have them on the sun glass rack at walgreens.

    4. Re:Sounds like alternate reality...let's make one! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Ever since Apple went bankrupt after it tried to sell that disastrous mp3 "pod" player thing in the early 2000s (not as much space as my Nomad but more expensive? no thanks!), we've known that the market for high-end, "premium" products had finally closed up.

      The End User saw the walkman and said, this is too bulky and battery consuming. They end user lamented that they could not use the music files on their PC instead of a spinning disk.

      Upon hearing the lamentation of the end users, many companies developed MP3 players that thrived on open standards like USB and MSC. They worked like portable flash drives with audio processors built in and they became ever more popular production costs dropped due to the increased production of PC components which the MP3 players shared a lot of common components with.

      The end user saw the MP3 player and saw that it was good.

      Then the End User looked at their smartphone and cried, Winmo, BB, Palm, are ye gods or devils for thou cannot say. Your ideas are grand but your devices are flawed. Then a great voice boomed from the havens and said, I AM ANDROID AND I HEAR YOU MY CHILD. Thus the Android had spoken, however the Android did not try to lock it down, rather they opened it up to developers, allowed them to run their own code or other peoples code without the supervision of some kind of "gatekeeper" or "walled garden" which spawned a myriad of similar devices using the same OS or another OS based on the same general idea. The Android even allowed the End User to create their own version of the Android and run them on their own hardware. The Android did not sue all their competitors nor did they try to patent obvious ideas and use them to inhibit their competitors, rather the Android said "go forth and multiply" and relished in the competition he had created.

      The End User used Android and saw that it was good.

      In this wonderful alternate universe, people have cheap, functional devices that operate in a thriving competitive market without a single company trying to monopolise it and control the every action of the end users. And the end users lived happily ever after.

      Moral of the story, new ideas happen because of demand exists, not because a certain company exists.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    5. Re:Sounds like alternate reality...let's make one! by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Just to say it quickly, my goal was not to suggest that the death of Apple was the catalyst that shaped the alternate reality into what it was. Rather, my goal was to use the death of Apple as a bellwether for the way things were going, hence why Apple only got a quick mention at the start. It was meant to set the tone, nothing more, since the world hardly revolves around Apple.

      As for demand leading to new ideas, I do agree that that is one place that new ideas come from, but I would also suggest that many new ideas precede the demand for them, and that oftentimes those are the best ideas, since they are the ones that shake preconceptions. Those new ideas lead to high-end features that are not always necessary, but that improve the end user experience, and many times they eventually become standard on all devices. I actually believe that is what would undermine your version of things, since if we're left to ourselves, we tend not to make things until we have an itch to scratch, rather than working on the itches that we haven't even thought of yet.

      Moreover, while we would possibly end up with Android or something resembling it, if its predecessors in the smartphone market, such as Palm, Handspring, RIM, and others had not been able to exist due to a lack of demand for expensive hardware, I doubt that we would be anywhere close to where we are today with Android. Not only would we have had less people employed solely to think about the design for such things and to create the ideas that precede demand, we would have also had significantly fewer iterations in the industry on which to improve and come up with ideas, leaving us instead with a shallow version of what we know and love as Android.

  31. flipside: disposable society by Sebastopol · · Score: 1

    There are many aspects to low cost hardware, from boutique graphics cards and expensive cooling rigs, to other parts of the system. One aspect is low cost peripherals, like mice and keyboards. I worry that in the race to a $1 mouse, mice became cheap and disposable. I see a lot of un-recycled computer and electronic hardware at the transfer station (aka, a dump) I go to once a month. If cheap hardware was more reliable and a little more expensive, there wouldn't be tons of it going into the landfills.

    So this aspect is a double edged sword: yay cheap mice! boo, mice that break easy and are thrown into pits in the ground too frequently.

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  32. Yeah, give Android tablets away... by dohzer · · Score: 1

    ... and make back the money on all that expensive FOSS software. Oh... wait....

  33. Correct observation, wrong understanding by jgotts · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes, hardware is super cheap. That's because we make it all in China. China has a huge labor base that has no say whatsoever in the political system. Labor and environmental laws, lax as they are, are not enforced.

    However, the Chinese economy is beginning to falter and labor unrest is on the rise. I used to think that Chinese pay would normalize with the West and that manufacturing would move to cheaper markets. Now I'm beginning to think differently. There will be major political unrest in China, supply chains will be severely disrupted, and hardware will move back to expensive labor markets, not cheap ones. Cheaper markets just don't have the infrastructure to match China and the West. Observe what happened in Thailand last year because they couldn't deal with a simple flood.

    So this period of super-cheap hardware fueled by the greed of CEO's will come to an end, factories will move back to the West, and things won't just be a bit more expensive, they will be considerably more expensive because of technical expertise lost to a Chinese state in chaos or decline.

    1. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You weren't wrong.

      It just takes a while to grasp that China still has half a billion people to bring out of poverty. Minimum wage is increasing quite a bit in the industrialized areas, 15% last year in Shenzhen + increase in RMB value compared to the dollar. The government does this to increase investments into previously underdeveloped areas.

    2. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How much labor do you think is involved in making a tablet? Have you ever seen a printed circuit board get made? It's so god damned fast it'll blow your mind. The employees are only there to load the machine with reals of components and take away the trash. I doubt it will be too long before that's automated to.

    3. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wrong analysis - 300 thingies only equates to $45 because the exchange rate says so. And it says so because essentially the Chinese want it so.

      The Chinese want it so because they need to soak up so much manufacturing capacity to keep over a billion people employed, avoid a revolution, and thus keep the party elite in the luxury they're accustomed to.

    4. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      There will be major political unrest in China, supply chains will be severely disrupted, and hardware will move back to expensive labor markets, not cheap ones

      That is a good thing since "cheap labor market" is shorthand for "despotic country" these days. Pay off the government, and ensure that the workers don't gain any meaningful freedoms - even if you have to make more than a few of them feel like royals.

      Not all of the technical expertise has been lost, it just hasn't been paid appropriately. Pay more, hire directly, and ensure job security - and then you can get all the talent you want in the US.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    5. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      hardware will move back to expensive labor markets,

      The question is will the jobs move back with them or will they be moved back to highly automated factories that employ as few people as possible.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    6. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by unixisc · · Score: 1

      So Chinese workers are going to start acting like the Russian proletariat in 1917 and try and replace their government w/ a Communist one? Oh, wait....

    7. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by unixisc · · Score: 1

      It doesn't have to be despotic. When you have 1 billion people competing for a few tens of thousands of jobs, they are willing to take any pay to land that job. It's the usual market supply & demand - when you have an excessive supply of workers, their market costs are driven by the best bang for buck you are likely to get.

    8. Re:Correct observation, wrong understanding by CyclistOne · · Score: 1

      I agree with this. What's unknown is the timeline ... when this is going to begin being felt.

  34. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    "Allwinner"? That sounds like a real quality hardware company, there. Good luck with that.

    Then your buying a brand, but lets be fair ZTE and Huawei Offer excellent low to mid range products, and they are very well known. I suspect your Carrier builds everything on these companies hardware.

  35. Oh, aren't you so clever... by sirwired · · Score: 1

    Obviously the author is a Consumer Electronics analyst, and he's referring to Consumer Electronic Computing Devices, not your mid-range server. In the Grand Tradition of Slashdot Car Analogies, your statement is like the following:

    Early 20th Century Auto Industry Analyst: Steam Power is Dead.
    Early 20th Century Smug Slashdotter!: But my gigantic power generation plant runs on steam!

    1. Re:Oh, aren't you so clever... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously the author is a Consumer Electronics analyst, and he's referring to Consumer Electronic Computing Devices, not your mid-range server. In the Grand Tradition of Slashdot Car Analogies, your statement is like the following:

      Early 20th Century Auto Industry Analyst: Steam Power is Dead.
      Early 20th Century Smug Slashdotter!: But my gigantic power generation plant runs on steam!

      Of course nowadays, most of our electricity comes from burning coal or reacting uranium etc. to make...

      oh.

      Steam.

    2. Re:Oh, aren't you so clever... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disregard. I completely misunderstood the point of your post.

  36. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

    I'll stick with Westinghouse, thanks.

  37. It's like clothes ? by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

    People pay 100s, 1,000s or more times for clothes than the actual manufacturing cost. Because clothes also have a social value, by making you look good, advertising that you know how to dress well and fashionably, and, above all, conveying that you have money to throw away on overpriced bits of cloths.

    Same for computing devices really. There's one company I'm thinking of... ^^

    --
    The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
  38. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, go by how the company name sounds, not by merits of their hardware.

  39. Quality Wins by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    Cheap hardware and software waste my time.

    Quality tools let me get my work done.

    Beware of false savings.

  40. how? by Chirs · · Score: 1

    If you never configure your wifi access, how exactly is the tablet going to phone home?

    1. Re:how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you never configure your wifi access, how exactly is the tablet going to phone home?

      With the cellular radio. That's why it's called "phone home", you twit.

    2. Re:how? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Through the chip secretly implanted in your brain.

    3. Re:how? by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      I for one find my secured tablet to be useful for things like playing DrugWars by myself on the toilet.

      But one has to realize that there are likely some people out there for which security is not a concern and would like to connect their tablet to access cloud content occaisionally. While these "hackers", information sneakers, are a bane to information freedom (and should be stopped) but at this time I don't see any practical way to lock down everyone's tablet so that they can communicate only securely with themselves.

      How do we convince others that the safest computing is no computing? Should we give out free wireless jammers to everyone? or is this overstepping our boundaries a bit? It's bound (no pun intended) to upset SOMEONE.

      I believe the answer (and the only answer) is education. We should teach network abstinence to every young boy and girl, so when the time comes to 'hook up' to the Internet, we can be sure they will be safe.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
  41. can still do GPS without a dataplan by Chirs · · Score: 1

    You can get apps that use maps stored on the phone. If your phone doesn't have a GPS chip you can sync with a bluetooth GPS receiver as well.

    1. Re:can still do GPS without a dataplan by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      If you're going to buy an app that stores maps on your phone, and then a bluetooth GPS receiver, wouldn't it be easier to just buy a TomTom?

      Personally, I find my Android phone's navigation pretty handy, but it sure has a lot of trouble getting a reliable GPS signal. A dedicated unit like TomTom or Garmin probably doesn't have that problem.

  42. OK, I'll help by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    I was going to buy the thing until you gave us that insight. So now I've decided to not to get it and that poor bastard can just starve. See, that's better.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  43. there is no such thing as a "very nice $45 tablet" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no such thing as a "very nice $45 tablet".

  44. Wow, are they nuts? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work for people that will pay $23,000 for a TV set. They paid $19,000 for their 12 room whole house audio amp. I am guessing that the author of the article is some young kid that knows nothing at all about electronics in general and is far too young to realize there is a HUGE market for very high end anything. Look up the price for a Sub-Zero fridge or a Viking Range some time to find out what rich people are buying. One of my clients has a $6500 gas grill on his deck.

    a $900 64gig 3G iPad is nothing to them. The Crestron Remote I just sold them for their living room AV gear was $1100.00

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Wow, are they nuts? by Xacid · · Score: 2

      ...are you a butler?

    2. Re:Wow, are they nuts? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      of course rich people can afford that.

      stats however say that most people aren't rich, so it's you who sounds young.

      there will always be a market for diamond studded everything. that market isn't very big though.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Wow, are they nuts? by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      You know there's no upper limit to how much money people are going to accept if you want to give it to them, right? These people aren't buying goods, they're buying the ability to say that they spent SOOO MUCH on their goods. It's luxery goods. The pricetag is literally as much as people want to spend on it.

  45. duh by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

    I just figured out what this article is really trying to say. It's not that "expensive hardware is dead", but rather, Apple isn't really trying to innovate any more, so that means we have reached the zenith of handheld devices, so now all that's left is for the same devices to get cheaper. Because without Apple breaking new ground, there simply cannot be anything new that is worthwhile.

    Or something.

    Nope. I just can't do it. There is no way to look at this article that makes it any less stupid.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  46. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by msauve · · Score: 1

    Conveys a level of quality similar to "Lucky Goldstar," or "High Tech Computer," doesn't it? Not as bad as naming a company after a fruit, though!

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  47. Is the sky falling ?? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    TFA's warcry "Hardware Is Dead" is itself braindead.

    Just because the price-point of hardware falls does not mean the mechanics of dealings in hardware is dead.

    There are many more items in our daily lives carry price-point well below of $45.

    Are people dealing in porcelain cup dying of hunger?

    Are businesses dealing in cheap plastic toys closing up shop?

    No, of course not !

    As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply, and as long as there is a price-point difference between the supply side and the amount demand side is willing to pay, there is profit to be made.

    The author doesn't even know shit about doing business. He acts as if he's the re-incarnation of Chicken Little and keep yelling "The Sky Is Falling ! The Sky Is Falling !!"
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  48. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by quenda · · Score: 1

    "Allwinner"? That sounds like a real quality hardware company,

    Sounds no worse than "Lucky GoldStar", and they are making billions.

  49. Re:No. What's up with these PC video screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...I mean why do you think all the monitors now are 1600x900 or 1080p? Because they crank those out for TVs so they're cheap. We see the same thing with 1366x768 in netbooks, they crank the hell out of those 12 inch screens for mini-TV and tablets and any other place where a big screen won't fit so they are again dirt cheap."

    Now there's a pet peeve of mine - no 4:3 or 5:4 monitors being made now (at least that I can find). Maybe most folks actually do want to use them all the time for watching wide-screen formatted videos, but I like to read web pages (like this one) with lots of vertical content, and documents that are generally in portrait mode. I don't mind a lot of width to see various windows side-by-side, but I do like those window to be tall.

    Here I am on my coolest ever refurbished discard wondering if anyone still makes monitors like the 1920x1200 (ok, 8:5 ratio - enough height to make me happy) beauty on this old Dell D800 my brother-in-law dumped to me when it would not start up anymore (he used it for diagrams of commercial HVAC ducting airflow tuning he does for a living - he likes vertical space, too). I just figured the 15.6 inch screen was some oversize 1280x800 resolution at best, like my old work Dell D630, and would sell the thing cheap after spending $25 on a mobo with CPU from eBay. When I fired it up, and checked available resolution at 1920x1200, it became a keeper. I am keeping an eye on CraigsList for cheap D820/30 models with Core Duo and DDR2 RAM, and a lower res (or broken) screen to swap for my kind of upgrade ;-)

    Gimme the heights!

  50. Huh? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    Are we so close to given-away tablets?

    Hmm, this should be easy to determine: how close are we to given-away cheeseburgers?

    1. Re:Huh? by ameoba · · Score: 1

      McD's constantly shovels $1 cheeseburgers out the door, basically at cost, hoping to sell high-margin things like soft drinks or tempt you into buying premium items. They routinely have 2/$4 on Big Macs. Adjusted for inflation, these things have been falling through the floor for the last decade as well.

      --
      my sig's at the bottom of the page.
    2. Re:Huh? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Sorry for the confusion, I should have said real cheeseburgers (for clarification, watch Food, Inc.).

  51. Re:Meanwhile on the PC desktop side by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Since we're playing Anecdote Trading, when I finally had some cash to avoid scraping together beyond-cheap boxes, I didn't go for any of the major vendors. I had a buddy custom build it from scratch and every step of the way I tossed in an extra $20-40 for "nothing but quality upgrades". I haven't had to replace a thing. It's called Twilight (in the Asimovian sense of Nightfall), because I vaguely saw parts of this OS mess looming, and it has to hold together for the context of getting past what we now know as Windows 8. So right about when Windows 9 shows up, XP goes off security updates, if they "recanted from the mistakes of Windows 8" and didn't put too many evil DRM-RIAA tricks into it, then off I go with the latest and greatest to start all over. If MS implodes by then and does a "double Vista" in a row, then maybe I'll limp along on Windows 7 for a while. Either way 10 years isn't bad for a comp.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  52. that's completely insane by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    This reminds of the people that come to my custom build/repair shop and say they saw an ad in the paper for a $300 computer so why should any cost more than that. Then they complain that my answers are lies. I hope that eMachine's Deer power supply burns their house down. In the last infoworld study, they found that 1 of their deer power supplies exploded and the other caught on fire during testing so it's a 50/50 shot. I've seen so many broken AOC tablets and I'm still shocked that AOC makes tablets. Let's say for a given product there's price X and prize Z and Y is the exact median price. I don't think I've ever seen anything prices below Y work worth a damn. I guess maybe Realtek-based Rosewill wireless adapters for $11 and that's about it.

    Just remember, the inverse is not true. Paying $30 for a keyboard and mouse at Best Buy doesn't make it good. It's a $15 set with a Best Buy price on it.

  53. Well actually, android is no money down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The iPhone 4 is free, but the 4s and five cost money.

    Android dominates the low end, as it should. It's free!

  54. You get what you pay for by scdeimos · · Score: 1

    Jay Goldberg should update his article in a couple of months' time when:

    • He's tried to install an app from Google Play that actually requires ICS features and discovers that his shiny new tablet is just Gingerbread skinned to look like ICS.
    • He's tried to upgrade to the latest version of Android only to find out he can't. There's a reason he couldn't figure out who manufactured it - nobody's going to be around to supply him with firmware updates. Except maybe CyanogenMod.

    Yes, $45 tablets are around and have been for a while. Their called throw-away devices.

  55. Nope. by Billgatez · · Score: 1

    There will always be a need for expensive highend hardware Because there will always be people who want the fastest thing out there. Not only that but it's that highend hardware that gets refined in to the cheaper hardware later.

  56. Re:No. What's up with these PC video screens? by nospam007 · · Score: 1
  57. Tablets have been cheap for a while by Animats · · Score: 1

    There's this strange illusion in the US that tablets are supposed to cost a few hundred dollars. Go look at tablets on Alibaba. ("Tablet pc: 474,433 products found.") 7-inch devices are mostly in the $50-$100 range. Over $100, you get a 10-inch screen. Most of them use an Allwinner $7 part, which has most of the electronics other than the display.

    Look on Amazon. There's a good selection of tablets in the $60 range. Around $70, you start to get all the bells and whistles. And that's retail.

    1. Re:Tablets have been cheap for a while by supercrisp · · Score: 1

      How do you find a good one? Seriously. I'm a school teacher on a budget, and I've been shopping, but it's hard to find reliable-sounding reviews. I'm comfortable with modding, so the firmware isn't a problem, unless the thing won't take Cyanogen.

    2. Re:Tablets have been cheap for a while by Dzimas · · Score: 1

      Try the Ainol Novo 7 Aurora II (with IPS display and 16GB flash). You should be able to find it in the $110-$120 range with (slow) free shipping at an online site.

  58. Even with wood... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever measure a 2x4?

    ps. It's a stick of wood used to build your house.
    and It's not 2"x4" unless you consider old-time production allowances.
    Guess what it measures...
    yup: 1.5" x 3.5"

    1. Re:Even with wood... by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      You're right, but what's the pixel resolution of a "720p class" TV, and how big is its "19 inch class" screen?

      The situation I'm complaining about is what it would be like if that 2x4 piece of wood were a "2x4 class board product" whose actual dimensions could be anywhere between 1 x 2.5 to 1.4 x 3.5, and endless racks of 70-cent "board products" at Home Depot made a real, honest to god 2x4 cost $15 and have to be special-ordered.

  59. Start w/ FPGAs, then move deeper if needed by unixisc · · Score: 2

    But these days, things are a lot easier. If you wanted to start up a semiconductor company, why go for things like CAD tools that have you work directly w/ the fab? Start working w/ the FPGA tools from Altera, Xilinx, or anyone else. I'm not sure whether you are considering HDL programming 'software', but instead of designing chips starting @ transistor levels, start @ logic levels. Yeah, they'll be nowhere near as optimized, but it reduces your time to market, and enables you to get a start. Once you've attained a certain critical volume, then you can do ASIC spins of that FPGA to run down your costs in response to your customer demands for price cuts.

    The big issue is shrinks. Theoretically, since you are getting more die per wafer, and at some points, bigger wafers, costs should be less. On the contrary, they are much higher - due to increased costs of new equipment, and also, the fact that test times - another factor - are not gonna get shorter, given the increased feature lists and quality testing that is required. Also, if you are a fabless company, you are fine when the market for hardware is bad in that you won't have intense competition for capacity, and neither will your suppliers try to gouge you. But when the market is in allocation, it's ugly, b'cos unless you are big enough, and good enough in providing reliable forecasts, you are more likely than not to be given a lower priority by your vendor. Even being multi-sourced @ such times doesn't help, since everyone would have the same issue. That's the time that having your own fab & capacity is useful.

    So while it does depend on a combination of one's long term vision, as well as execution, I wouldn't say that h/w people should nix their dreams/plans and go into s/w. Instead, come up w/ good plans that would help one start w/ a modest investment, and then work up to where one has made enough money to take the business to the next level.

  60. You get what you pay for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having bought a low-cost tablet and had to buy a Galaxy Tab 2 a week later on account of being frustrated, disgusted and other adjectives that end with 'ed, I can confidently say that you get what you pay for. the $125 tablet I bought scrimped on memory, storage, CPU--everything. The screen's PPI matched the original iPad (my previous tablet) but it sucked and wiped. These low-cost tablets will put off people and kill the tablet market if consumers start to think that that's what a tablet is. This is what's happening in India where tablet sales are low (600,000 or so this year as opposed to 11 mn PCs & laptops).

  61. The hardware isn't what he made it out to be by tlambert · · Score: 1

    It's a "third shift" knock-off of the Ainol Novo with less RAM and cheaper parts. Ainol failed to control their supply chain (third shift is why Apple buys up all the possible parts suppliers for three or four of the components in any of their products: it makes a third shift non-viable for the factory). It's also using a cheaper screen, which is why the capacitive sensor is so bad - it's not tuned for the dielectric it's got. Finally it's actually got a reduced size battery, which is one of the big cost items for any tablet.

    See the inset here: http://www.rmmagazine.com/Magazine/PrintTemplate.cfm?AID=3376 for how the "third shift" works to produce cheaper product at the expense of quality.

    1. Re:The hardware isn't what he made it out to be by slacka · · Score: 1

      I live in Shenzhen and bought one of these 400RMB tablets( went for the upgraded 1GB version) just a few days ago on a whim. Many of my friends and coworkers have too. Most importantly, despite the price, we will NEVER buy one again either. Here is way.
      1) No manufacturer support for bug-fixes or upgrades. Your stuck with ICS or whatever buggy version comes with your device
      2) Brittle low resolution glass displays. Mine is already cracked from floating around in my backpack, despite the screen protector and case that came with it.
      3) Terribly slow 1-4GB of FLASH. It took an hour to transfer 2GB of MP3s
      4) Slow, unreliable, unresponsive capacitive touch screens. Scrolling worked OK, but I dreaded having to type on the virtual keyboard.
      5) Abysmal build quality. Misaligned buttons. Screen bulging on 1 side. Cheap, plastic, feel.
      6) Terrible battery life. My tab could last about 1 hours playing 3D games, 2 browsing the web.
      I am still rocking an iPhone 3GS and it is superior to that POS in every way. When I return to the states, I plan to buy a Nexus 7 or Kindle HD. The $55 I wasted on my China special would of been much better spent on upgrading one of those.

  62. Biggest Robotics Hardware Announcement This Decade by HizookRobotics · · Score: 1

    That's kind of a funny title to see this on the front page of /. on the same day that we have one of the biggest (robotics) hardware announcements of the decade: Rethink Robotics just announced their $22,000 humanoid robot. The visionary behind Rethink is Rod Brooks -- former MIT CSAIL director, co-founder of iRobot, etc etc. This new arm is a 10x drop in price compared to other comparable platforms (eg. Kuka, PR2, Barrett, Meka, ABB, etc). Hardware is definitely not dead... but perhaps "PC hardware" is...?

  63. 25$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somebody please tell this guy the raspberry pi goes for 25$

  64. Display Devices Follow Light Bulbs by retroworks · · Score: 1

    Great article, though the title is misleading. It's called "commoditization". Producing Apples becomes like producing corn. Eventually, we want technology to become cheap, like the light bulb. If Chinese labor brings it there faster, the commodity becomes more affordable. Hopefully, the production is environmentally sustainable. I'm happier owning a 45 dollar product which my pals in Africa can afford to chat back with me on, than I am with a $850 device which I play solitaire on.

    --
    Gently reply
  65. Almost Impossible by nhat11 · · Score: 1

    Even with AMD/Intel and AMD/Nvidia competition, if you want power to do the high end stuff like running Battlefield 3/PS/etc you'll need to get a decent processor/GPU. It may change in the future but for now this is how it is.

  66. Cheap hardware has a cost, it's the environment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ignoring the manufacturing pollution to hit this price point, having throw away devices just means more e-waste. What are we going to do with all this crap?

    1. Re:Cheap hardware has a cost, it's the environment by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      send it back to china to melt down and make more things.

  67. Re:Yes low cost junk replaces well made & supp by Cinder6 · · Score: 1

    Basing your buying decisions in part on brand name is not a bad idea, so long as you have a reason for the evaluation. Is your brand of choice well-known for higher build quality, better support, better warranty, etc.? Those intangibles are important, even if they're not as immediately obvious.

    --
    If you can't convince them, convict them.
  68. Re:No. What's up with these PC video screens? by TheTrueScotsman · · Score: 1

    There are loads of 1920x1200 monitors available. Looking at my local hardware shop's page, there about 30 different models with both TN and IPS screens from the usual suspects (Acer, ASUS, Dell, HP, NEC, Samsung, etc).

    I prefer that extra bit of height and use a 2560x1440 27-inch Dell.

  69. In Faux-Communist China... by mug+funky · · Score: 1

    hardware == tablets.

    what a stupid headline. i'm not even going to read the article after that.

    besides, the word "consumer" means things are going to be shit. when i think of "hardware", i tend to thing of big expensive workhorse machines used in production that come with a service contract and a high build quality.

    i wonder when people will clue in to the fact that you can buy good, reliable things for the price of a mid-level to high-end consumer thing of equivalent function if you approach a trade outlet? there's one for any product you could find use with.