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Patent Troll Goes After Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, IBM, Others

Posted by Soulskill on from the go-big-or-go-home dept.

zaba writes "A company named PersonalWeb Technologies has decided to sue a host of heavy players in the tech industry, including Apple, Facebook, IBM, Microsoft and Yahoo! for patents it holds related to data processing. They have a previous suit against other big names like Amazon, Google and HP. Anyone care to guess where the company is based or where the suits were filed?" The company is also targeting GitHub, but seems to have accidentally sued Rackspace — GitHub's host — instead. Rackspace has responded, saying, "It’s apparent that the people filing the suit don’t understand the technology or the products enough to realize that Rackspace Cloud Servers and GitHub are completely different products from different companies."

38 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. Enough Already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I used to think of patent trolls as no name companies that pop up just to make a quick and sleazy buck. Now I think of all of the big names like Apple and Samsung too. At this point, I say bring it on. Let all companies be destroyed in the name of "intellectual property rights" and lets start over. I'd rather we die a quick death than drag it out forever.

    1. Re:Enough Already by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is, with the current system, it is more reasonable to the bottom line to pay X in settlement costs vs paying your own lawyers for Y time

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    2. Re:Enough Already by ryanmetcalf · · Score: 2

      You forgot to cite your source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix_Revolutions#Plot

    3. Re:Enough Already by Antonovich · · Score: 2

      It's probably not a very mature way of looking at things but it's also exactly the way I see them. There is a fundamental difference between companies that attempt to stop others moving forward and those whose strategy is simply to continuously innovate faster and further than the rest. That doesn't mean secrecy isn't sometimes warranted. That doesn't mean that you should let others profit from your brand/image or pass themselves off as somehow representing you. There are limits though. While I like Samsung products (and owned both a Galaxy S and Galaxy Nexus), they deserved a massive fine for blatant copying. There was no need to do it, they were told not to by Google, and they did it anyway. The early Galaxy phones got them a good foothold in the massive smartphone market - a foothold they would possibly have had a harder time getting without the blatant copying. We'll never know. I believe software patents are fundamentally contrary to fast and efficient innovation in the tech sector - I am all for using the courts when you do a fairly crass ripoff...

    4. Re:Enough Already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The madness of Emperor Caligula went on for some time too before someone had the balls to turn him into a fucking pin cushion. Is this really any different? We now have the equivalent of a horse for a senator, how long will this go on before someone grabs his balls and does what needs to be done to fix this nonsense?

    5. Re:Enough Already by sempir · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We now have the equivalent of a horse for a senator, how long will this go on before someone grabs his balls and does what needs to be done to fix this nonsense?

      Whose....the horses, or the senators?

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    6. Re:Enough Already by p.rican · · Score: 2

      Better phone? That's definitely subjective.

      --

      /. --"Demented and sad....but social" -Judd Nelson

    7. Re:Enough Already by asylumx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Interestingly enough, that's the same approach shipping companies have been taking with the pirates off the coast of Somalia. A curious analogy, don't you think?

    8. Re:Enough Already by asylumx · · Score: 2

      Yes. I was pretty obviously equating them to pirates.

  2. List of their patents by nagasrinivas · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.personalweb.com/Technology.html
    Enjoy!

    1. Re:List of their patents by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 5, Informative

      5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers -UUID
      6,415,280 - Identifying and requesting data in network using identifiers which are based on contents of data - CRC Hash
      6,928,442 - Enforcement and policing of licensed content using content-based identifiers - See WinAmp and Windows Media player
      and so on...

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    2. Re:List of their patents by doomtiki · · Score: 5, Funny
      You know it is a legitimate technology firm when their website says:

      We are located in East Texas, and we are developing innovative technologies and products.

      There seem to be a lot of "innovative" firms located in East Texas.

    3. Re:List of their patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers -UUID
        6,415,280 - Identifying and requesting data in network using identifiers which are based on contents of data - CRC Hash
        6,928,442 - Enforcement and policing of licensed content using content-based identifiers - See WinAmp and Windows Media player
      and so on...

      Sounds like any CAS solution would fit all three you listed.

      Sue EMC for their Centerra product perhaps?

    4. Re:List of their patents by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

      If you were a patent troll would you seriously want people to have a way to contact you?

    5. Re:List of their patents by chrismcb · · Score: 3, Funny
      But... But... But what about this awesome, novel patent, that I am sure no one else could come up with:

      Accessing Data In A Data Processing System

    6. Re:List of their patents by CheeseyDJ · · Score: 4, Funny

      5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers

      "Substantially unique" - I love that.

      I wasn't aware there were varying degrees of "unique". Maybe there's a scale:

      • Not unique
      • Slightly unique
      • Moderately unique
      • Substantially unique
      • Very unique
      • Completely Unique

      The best part is that this potentially allows for many moderately unique patents, each patenting varying degrees of uniqueness.

  3. My Guesses by Talondel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Austin. Eastern District of Texas.

    1. Re:My Guesses by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      A district court in Texas seems to see a lot of patent and copyright cases and the rulings often side with the complainant (read IP owner).

      So in short, yes, it's common. It seems to be the court of choice.

    2. Re:My Guesses by dohzer · · Score: 2

      Neither troll nor living under a rock. Or a troll living under a rock for that matter. Just not American, so I only hear patent cases being referred to as American, rather than Texan.

  4. Re:But the patent system is fine, right? by BrownLeopard · · Score: 2

    I know. It's gotten so ridiculous that it's almost impossible to create anything new without stepping on somebody's patent. Lets not even open the door to frivolous lawsuits based on said patents.

  5. High School Kids? by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Most of their technical staff looks to be about 15 or 16...

    http://www.personalweb.com/About.html

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:High School Kids? by viperidaenz · · Score: 5, Funny

      They're probably the kids of the lawyers who run the company.

    2. Re:High School Kids? by Psychotria · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, but what does age have to do with it? This guy, for example, is obviously a leader in his field.

      Darren Hampton: Quality Assurance Coordinator

      Darren Hampton is an eclectic fellow. Despite being risk averse, he often puts himself in a great deal of minor peril. He is PersonalWeb's Quality Assurance Coordinator, but normally lacks the qualities of a coordinated individual.

      The guy bursts into laughter at the slightest provocation, which leads to a very bruised noggin as he loses control of his flailing cranial structure. The danger he poses to himself is insurmountable as he cannot find a way to escape his own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.

      Besides laughing at things that really have no comical value, he has been known to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. He especially likes the parts where it goes “wob wob wob.” He also has a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2 and will likely never free himself of the game. The one thing he hates is stepping on Legos without shoes... and jerks.

      If that's not a glowing review of talent and competence, I don't know what is.

      Oh, and Clarissa Andrews likes dying her hair!

    3. Re:High School Kids? by Psychotria · · Score: 2

      I would like to add: Clarissa, if you're reading this I'd do you. Definitely. I don't care about the colour of your hair. You're a hot diggety dog! *KISS*

  6. Let all companies be destroyed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, then the only companies left would be the patent trolls.

    1. Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple - love or hate them - makes products based on those patents.
      So no, they are not patent trolls.
      They may use borderline invalid patents in an offensive and anticompetitive way, but they are not simply trolling.

      --
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    2. Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It used to be that suing was the last ditch effort of a company that had stopped innovating. When you're coming out with new product, who cares if somebody's copying last year's version?

      The problem is, Apple isn't innovating any more, and their patents aren't for actual products, they're for concepts that should be considered obvious by anybody in the industry. All they have left to them are incremental updates for existing products, and anybody with their ear to the ground in technology can predict these updates before they announce them... was *anybody* surprised that the big upgrade for the iPhone 5 was a higher resolution screen and LTE radio, or that the iPad 3 was a higher resolution screen and more processing power? And if you're able to predict what's next, and you happen to be a company that's competing against them, then it's pretty easy to come up with the next version before they do, and Apple ends up caught with their pants down, as has been done with the market for 7" tablets. The end result? Apple's trying to sue everybody to prevent them from competing, because, as a company, they stopped really innovating years ago.

      The same generally goes for other players in the global patent wars too, mind you... it's not that I hate Apple (though I do) that I choose them as the whipping boy, it's because they're the most obvious to make the case with. What I just said can equally be applied to Samsung, LG, or HTC in the mobile phone market, and pretty much any player in modern technology. It's been a long while since anybody came up with something that was really *new* that wasn't just a more efficient way to do what we were already doing. Even the main drivers for the smartphone market, which Apple claims to have invented (we'll pretend Palm, Sony, and Blackberry didn't already have smartphones), had been done 10 years before the iPhone it the market... downloadable apps by Palm, and mobile e-mail/calendar by Ericcson (digital PCS).

    3. Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      The problem is, Apple isn't innovating any more, and their patents aren't for actual products, they're for concepts that should be considered obvious by anybody in the industry.

      Yep, everyone went with touch screens instead of keypads prior to the iPhone. Everyone had a nice "big" at that time screen. Yep, everyone. I mean, let's not be revisionist, the iPhone hit the streets 5 years ago. Patents are good for 20 years. Anyone copying any tech patented in the iPhone should be sued, it's Apple's fiduciary responsibility, if nothing less. BTW, where are the retina screens for anyone else, other than Samsung, who also happens to manufacture the screens for Apple?

      All they have left to them are incremental updates for existing products, and anybody with their ear to the ground in technology can predict these updates before they announce them... was *anybody* surprised that the big upgrade for the iPhone 5 was a higher resolution screen and LTE radio, or that the iPad 3 was a higher resolution screen and more processing power?

      Nope, nor the new CPU in the iPhone that doubles the processing power, exceeding the performance of all other current phones on the market by 30%? A CPU designed by Apple? Nope, they're certainly not innovating.

      And if you're able to predict what's next, and you happen to be a company that's competing against them, then it's pretty easy to come up with the next version before they do, and Apple ends up caught with their pants down, as has been done with the market for 7" tablets. The end result? Apple's trying to sue everybody to prevent them from competing, because, as a company, they stopped really innovating years ago.

      Yep, you've certainly made your valid point there - Apparently Apple has 0 innovation in them over the past 5 years (when was the iPad released again and who did they copy?)

      It's been a long while since anybody came up with something that was really *new* that wasn't just a more efficient way to do what we were already doing.

      Do you have the slightest clue what innovation is, and what patents are about?

      Even the main drivers for the smartphone market, which Apple claims to have invented (we'll pretend Palm, Sony, and Blackberry didn't already have smartphones), had been done 10 years before the iPhone it the market... downloadable apps by Palm, and mobile e-mail/calendar by Ericcson (digital PCS).

      For all intents and purposes, Apple did invent the smartphone market as it stand today. Otherwise, wouldn't Blackberry, Sony, and Palm all own the market?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    4. Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by techsoldaten · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So... much... to... argue... with... there...

      If you really want to argue who invented the smartphone market, it was Danger. Say all you want about Palm, but the Sidekick was the device that really proved the model for apps on mobile devices. I mean this in the sense of apps as opposed to applications, where you have over the air updates for the system. The market for smartphones would not be a tenth of what it is were that not the case. Had they not sold out to Microsoft, the smartphone world would be a very different place to day.

      The OP does appear to understand what innovation is. Innovation !== features enhancements, however, which are often a natural product of ongoing R&D that make their way into a product. Apple using a retina display is a feature enhancement, Apple building one in the first place is innovation. As you said, this was Samsung.

      In regards to the design of the iPad, Jonathan Ives did not have the original idea for it. There were prototype drawings from the 80s describing very similar devices. Just because Apple was able to make the push to actually build the thing and mass-market it does not really mean the company conceived of the device completely from scratch.

      I mean, citing the iPad and iPhone as examples of innovation is all well and good, if we were talking about how innovative they were in 2007. It's 2012 now, where are the new products and ideas that are going to make the world more efficient and exciting than it was before? I know they have made bids to get involved in automobile manufacturing, televisions and other consumer electronics, and other verticals. Innovation in these areas would be magnificent to see.

      Instead, there are no new products this year, and there is a lot of talk about reducing their line (there is still talk Mac Pros may be going away altogether in the next year or so). you look at Samsung, you see a company that is involved in every major area of consumer manufacturing. They have a strong defense business as well, and their semiconductor unit continues to keep creating new things all the time. Apple is a little too concerned about their stock price to try anything new anymore. I don't see them as capable of producing disruptive technology so long as the fundamentals of their business model discourage risk in their major product lines.

      What we are seeing it not technology innovation, it's more like business model innovation.

  7. Their first patent... by viperidaenz · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,978,791.PN.&OS=PN/5,978,791&RS=PN/5,978,791 They better go and sue Oracle. This describes the function of java.util.Hashtable.... hangon, that's been around since 1996 and the patent was filled in 1997.

  8. East Texas by Fnord666 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    With any luck this will backfire since a key judge that made East Texas such a hotspot for patent infringement lawsuits retired from the US District Court last year.

    This article does a pretty good job of looking at the situation in East Texas with regards to patent trials. It is an interesting read. It will be eye opening to some and a confirmation to others.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  9. Texas Sucks by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > It’s apparent that the people filing the suit don’t understand the technology or the products enough to realize that Rackspace Cloud Servers and GitHub are completely different products from different companies."

    The problem is that if you are sued for patent infringement - regardless of the merits of the case - you are up for $2M in lawyers fees and court costs to defend it. Recently a judge speaking out against trolls said $3M - $5M. If you're a small company or worse - a lone developer - that will send you bankrupt. The suit will most likely be filed in a troll-friendly court district such as the East District of Texas as this case was. The judges in E.D. Texas there are notoriously pro-troll and won't dismiss even the most stupid of cases. http://www.technologyreview.com/news/405259/a-haven-for-patent-pirates/

    Trolling causes a lot of damage for innovators elsewhere in the US, but it is huge source of revenue for E.D. Texas. Congressmen from these other districts need to gang up against the Texas trolls and Congressmen: http://www.house.gov/representatives/#state_tn

  10. Re:Why? by Patent+Lover · · Score: 4, Informative

    They have a "rocket docket" which processes patent suits more quickly than other district courts and an attorney licensed to practice in any state can practice before the court.

  11. Re:notoriously pro-troll by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

    Dramatization of processing wins for Intellectual Property holders in East Texas. (I know, this is satire, ignore the different country.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P46qYCIt954

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  12. Re: patient troll by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

    Oh, they are patient too. 12 years is a long time to wait on a partent portfolio before suing, even for something as juicy as trolling.

    "The patents asserted in these lawsuits were developed by a company called Kinetech Inc. The portfolio was split up in 2000, and itâ(TM)s now co-owned by PersonalWeb and Level 3 Communications, a large internet infrastructure company."

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  13. Drumroll please... by deblau · · Score: 2

    And the winner is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Bermeister

    --
    This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
  14. It will all go well by Psychotria · · Score: 3, Funny

    Attorney: Judge, we would like to put our QA Coordinator on the stand as an expert witness.
    Judge: Darren Hampton, please take the stand.
    Judge: Please describe your role at the company and your formal qualifications.
    Darren: I am an eclectic fellow, but despite myself being risk averse I often put myself in a great deal of minor peril.
    Judge: Please proceed.
    Darren: Although I am am coordinator, I normally lack the qualities of a coordinated individual. I burst into laughter at the slightest provocation.
    Judge: Understood.
    Darren: *bursts out laughing*
    Judge: *bashes Darren on the head with his gavel*
    Darren: Sorry, sir. The danger I pose to myself is insurmountable and I cannot find a way to escape my own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.
    Judge: Are you retarded?
    Darren: I like to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. I especially likes the parts where it goes "wob wob wob."
    Judge: Next witness please.
    Darren: Wait.
    Judge: Ok.
    Darren: I have a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2. I also don't like stepping on Legos (sic) without shoes. /me jerks.
    Judge: Next witness.
    Court Dude: Sheena Walker, please take the stand.
    Sheena: Oh, hai!
    Judge: Sheena, please describe your experience and formal qualifications.
    Sheena: I love research! Yay! My favourite holidy is St. Patricks Day and I luuuv green and light green. Like shamrocks, you know.
    Judge: Continue.
    Sheena: Like, yeah. What was I saying? Oh yeah! I love my Mini Schnauzer, Missy, to death! Yeah!
    Sheena: I once took a picture of a sunset!
    Judge: What has this got to do with the case.
    Sheena: Hey, judgie. I love Big Brother. I once had a piano in my ear! I went to the, yeah, University of Texas! Yeah. I didn't finish but I think I want to one day. I have been debating this with myself.
    Judge: You talk to yourself?
    Sheena: No, Judgie, I debate with myself. Anyway, hey, in the meantime I am learning like lots.

  15. I'm involved in this - providing prior art by viewtouch · · Score: 4, Informative

    A lawyer with a law firm defending one of these companies contacted me and visited me last week to review prior art which I have, with the hope that I can assist them and their client in invalidating one or more of these patents. Tomorrow I will be delivering running a copy of my software to the firm to allow them to closely examine it. Most of the companies which have been threatened with patent infringement lawsuits have caved in and agreed to pay the patent holders (Priceline founder Jay Walker and others) rather than attempt to defend themselves in court, however. We'll see how it plays out.