Patent Troll Goes After Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, IBM, Others

Enough Already by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 14:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

I used to think of patent trolls as no name companies that pop up just to make a quick and sleazy buck. Now I think of all of the big names like Apple and Samsung too. At this point, I say bring it on. Let all companies be destroyed in the name of "intellectual property rights" and lets start over. I'd rather we die a quick death than drag it out forever.

Re:Enough Already by TheRealMindChild · 2012-09-18 14:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

The problem is, with the current system, it is more reasonable to the bottom line to pay X in settlement costs vs paying your own lawyers for Y time

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"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
Re:Enough Already by 228e2 · 2012-09-18 15:30 · Score: 1

Nah, even if we start over, we would just return to the current state in a few years.

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Re:Enough Already by ryanmetcalf · 2012-09-18 16:04 · Score: 2

You forgot to cite your source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix_Revolutions#Plot
Re:Enough Already by aneroid · 2012-09-18 16:19 · Score: 1

BSG reference to the Eternal Return:

"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
Re:Enough Already by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 16:48 · Score: 1

There is an Axis of evil companies including Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Oracle and a few others (mostly proxies) that have aligned themselves against free software and companies that distribute free software products.
These companies are trying to smear Samsung, Google et al, often by pretending they are as evil as the Axis companies. You'll see variations of "well Axis company may be evil, but so is Samsung/Motorola/Google etc".
It is a lie.
Some companies do behave more ethically than others, and most behave more ethically than the Axis organisations.
Re:Enough Already by Samantha+Wright · 2012-09-18 17:03 · Score: 1

Woah, woah, woah. You can't say that. That implies they knew what they were doing.

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Re:Enough Already by Antonovich · 2012-09-18 18:41 · Score: 2

It's probably not a very mature way of looking at things but it's also exactly the way I see them. There is a fundamental difference between companies that attempt to stop others moving forward and those whose strategy is simply to continuously innovate faster and further than the rest. That doesn't mean secrecy isn't sometimes warranted. That doesn't mean that you should let others profit from your brand/image or pass themselves off as somehow representing you. There are limits though. While I like Samsung products (and owned both a Galaxy S and Galaxy Nexus), they deserved a massive fine for blatant copying. There was no need to do it, they were told not to by Google, and they did it anyway. The early Galaxy phones got them a good foothold in the massive smartphone market - a foothold they would possibly have had a harder time getting without the blatant copying. We'll never know. I believe software patents are fundamentally contrary to fast and efficient innovation in the tech sector - I am all for using the courts when you do a fairly crass ripoff...
Re:Enough Already by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 19:08 · Score: 2, Informative

The madness of Emperor Caligula went on for some time too before someone had the balls to turn him into a fucking pin cushion. Is this really any different? We now have the equivalent of a horse for a senator, how long will this go on before someone grabs his balls and does what needs to be done to fix this nonsense?
Re:Enough Already by sempir · 2012-09-18 20:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

We now have the equivalent of a horse for a senator, how long will this go on before someone grabs his balls and does what needs to be done to fix this nonsense?
Whose....the horses, or the senators?

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Re:Enough Already by viewtouch · 2012-09-18 20:47 · Score: 1

This is, in fact, what has happened here as well.
Re:Enough Already by p.rican · 2012-09-18 23:26 · Score: 2

Better phone? That's definitely subjective.

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Re:Enough Already by asylumx · 2012-09-19 00:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

Interestingly enough, that's the same approach shipping companies have been taking with the pirates off the coast of Somalia. A curious analogy, don't you think?
Re:Enough Already by asylumx · 2012-09-19 03:32 · Score: 2

Yes. I was pretty obviously equating them to pirates.
Re:Enough Already by jsrjsr · 2012-09-19 05:57 · Score: 1

And it is the same approach a young United States took towards the Barbary Pirates -- spending up to 20% of the country's annual budget on tribute and ransom.
Re:Enough Already by msi · 2012-09-19 07:25 · Score: 1

Ask SCO how well that worked against IBM
Re:Enough Already by ATMAvatar · 2012-10-01 17:36 · Score: 1

"Never get in a patent dispute with IBM" is on par with "never get involved in a land war in Asia."

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Re:Enough Already by PetiePooo · 2012-10-02 02:24 · Score: 1

Or "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line."

A-ha! A-ha-ha-ha! A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.... *thud*

List of their patents by nagasrinivas · 2012-09-18 14:18 · Score: 5, Informative

http://www.personalweb.com/Technology.html
Enjoy!

Re:List of their patents by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 14:23 · Score: 1, Insightful

i just had a long shitty day at school and i come home and see those patents, fuck my life, fuck the world, fuck it all. hopefully after i have some dinner and a fap i'll feel better.
Re:List of their patents by TheRealMindChild · 2012-09-18 14:27 · Score: 5, Informative

5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers -UUID
6,415,280 - Identifying and requesting data in network using identifiers which are based on contents of data - CRC Hash
6,928,442 - Enforcement and policing of licensed content using content-based identifiers - See WinAmp and Windows Media player
and so on...

--

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Re:List of their patents by doomtiki · 2012-09-18 14:33 · Score: 5, Funny

You know it is a legitimate technology firm when their website says:

We are located in East Texas, and we are developing innovative technologies and products.
There seem to be a lot of "innovative" firms located in East Texas.
Re:List of their patents by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 14:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers -UUID
6,415,280 - Identifying and requesting data in network using identifiers which are based on contents of data - CRC Hash
6,928,442 - Enforcement and policing of licensed content using content-based identifiers - See WinAmp and Windows Media player
and so on...

Sounds like any CAS solution would fit all three you listed.
Sue EMC for their Centerra product perhaps?
Re:List of their patents by bloodhawk · 2012-09-18 19:28 · Score: 2

If you were a patent troll would you seriously want people to have a way to contact you?
Re:List of their patents by chrismcb · 2012-09-18 22:35 · Score: 3, Funny

But... But... But what about this awesome, novel patent, that I am sure no one else could come up with:

Accessing Data In A Data Processing System
Re:List of their patents by CheeseyDJ · 2012-09-18 23:46 · Score: 4, Funny
5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers

"Substantially unique" - I love that.
I wasn't aware there were varying degrees of "unique". Maybe there's a scale:
- Not unique
- Slightly unique
- Moderately unique
- Substantially unique
- Very unique
- Completely Unique
The best part is that this potentially allows for many moderately unique patents, each patenting varying degrees of uniqueness.
Re:List of their patents by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-19 00:31 · Score: 1

Patent 7945539
Distributing and accessing data in a data processing system
A method of distributing a data item to a plurality of computers in a network of computers. A data item is divided into a plurality of segments. Each segment is stored on at least one computer in said network. A list of computers onto which each of said segments has been stored is maintained. When a data item is requested, its component segments are obtained from at least two computers in the network. Some of the computers may form a peer-to-peer network.
Re:List of their patents by Bigby · 2012-09-19 03:56 · Score: 1

They may have chosen those words because Completely Unique was already taken.
Re:List of their patents by poofmeisterp · 2012-09-19 08:25 · Score: 1

This is a good one.

Did I just break their policy by posting this link? Oh nos.
Re:List of their patents by Painted · 2012-09-20 04:16 · Score: 1

You forgot "Uniquely unique."

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Re:List of their patents by Rudisaurus · 2012-10-01 19:10 · Score: 1
5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers
"Substantially unique" - I love that.
I wasn't aware there were varying degrees of "unique". Maybe there's a scale:
- Not unique
- Slightly unique
- Moderately unique
- Substantially unique
- Very unique
- Completely Unique
The best part is that this potentially allows for many moderately unique patents, each patenting varying degrees of uniqueness.
And ... and ... the bottom end of the scale (or top, if you turn it over): Ununique!
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Re:List of their patents by joostje · 2012-10-01 19:38 · Score: 1

5,978,791 - Data processing system using substantially unique identifiers to identify data items, whereby identical data items have the same identifiers
"Substantially unique" - I love that.
It could be the identifier is a hash - there is some chance of collision, so cannot be guaranteed to be unique.
Re:List of their patents by CheeseyDJ · 2012-10-02 00:09 · Score: 1

It could be the identifier is a hash - there is some chance of collision, so cannot be guaranteed to be unique.
Yeah, it's pretty clear that "substantially unique identifier" is some kind of legal-speak for "hash code". I see what they're getting at, but the phrase "substantially unique" still makes no sense - either an ID is unique or it isn't.

But the patent system is fine, right? by BrownLeopard · 2012-09-18 14:20 · Score: 1

No overhaul needed of the patent system, right?

Re:But the patent system is fine, right? by TaoPhoenix · 2012-09-18 14:25 · Score: 1

I'm just amazed that these trolls can even do this.
It used to be that if a twerp sued that kind of firepower on any other topic he'd be pulverized from any one of the lawyer-cannons into the next parsec.

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Re:But the patent system is fine, right? by BrownLeopard · 2012-09-18 14:26 · Score: 2

I know. It's gotten so ridiculous that it's almost impossible to create anything new without stepping on somebody's patent. Lets not even open the door to frivolous lawsuits based on said patents.
Re:But the patent system is fine, right? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 14:39 · Score: 1

Which is why I'll never sell any of the few things I've made which have potential market value.
Re:But the patent system is fine, right? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 14:42 · Score: 1

Lawyers see they can take advantage of the system so they are now representing the trolls.
Re:But the patent system is fine, right? by NemoinSpace · 2012-09-18 15:12 · Score: 1

only in small claims court and high school ethics class. otherwise no, you have it exactly wrong.

My Guesses by Talondel · 2012-09-18 14:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

Austin. Eastern District of Texas.

Re:My Guesses by dohzer · 2012-09-18 14:54 · Score: 1

Looks like it is Texas. Is that common?
Re:My Guesses by sumdumass · 2012-09-18 16:05 · Score: 2

A district court in Texas seems to see a lot of patent and copyright cases and the rulings often side with the complainant (read IP owner).
So in short, yes, it's common. It seems to be the court of choice.
Re:My Guesses by dohzer · 2012-09-18 20:07 · Score: 2

Neither troll nor living under a rock. Or a troll living under a rock for that matter. Just not American, so I only hear patent cases being referred to as American, rather than Texan.
Re:My Guesses by N0Man74 · 2012-09-19 02:05 · Score: 1

Understandable. If you are interested, there was a great story on the radio regarding patent trolls (and connections to East Texas).
This American Life: When Patents Attack

The patent system has driven innovation for trolls by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 14:24 · Score: 1, Funny

And who says the system is broken?

High School Kids? by Frosty+Piss · 2012-09-18 14:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

Most of their technical staff looks to be about 15 or 16...

http://www.personalweb.com/About.html

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Re:High School Kids? by viperidaenz · 2012-09-18 14:39 · Score: 5, Funny

They're probably the kids of the lawyers who run the company.
Re:High School Kids? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 15:18 · Score: 1

Hahaha... you look at the management, and it seems ok... then you start on staff...

Bill misses the beach, but he has a lot of fun programming – too much, actually. If he wants to work on work stuff, it’s programming. If he wants to work on school stuff, also programming. If he wants to work on a personal project, it will probably involve programming. (He will have to get up and stretch someday).
That's not too bad, yet... but then a little bit more down... I think this one takes the cake for "Who the hell puts that up as a positive for their business?!":

Darren Hampton is an eclectic fellow. Despite being risk averse, he often puts himself in a great deal of minor peril. He is PersonalWeb's Quality Assurance Coordinator, but normally lacks the qualities of a coordinated individual.
The guy bursts into laughter at the slightest provocation, which leads to a very bruised noggin as he loses control of his flailing cranial structure. The danger he poses to himself is insurmountable as he cannot find a way to escape his own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.
Besides laughing at things that really have no comical value, he has been known to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. He especially likes the parts where it goes “wob wob wob.” He also has a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2 and will likely never free himself of the game. The one thing he hates is stepping on Legos without shoes... and jerks.
Altogether, that's Darren, a guy who finds enjoyment in just about everything and likes laughing at stuff. Sometimes he just doesn't even know.
Other gems:

Julie Ann Apoderado has a difficult time controlling her natural-born ninja skills.

Kevin doesn’t need lots of lengthy, adjective riddled sentences and paragraphs to describe him. No, Kevin needs just one word—Awesome. ...
Kevin plays the guitar, has road rage, and enjoys many other awesome activities

Her life goal is to open up a tiki bar on the beach.
At least, it seems like it's a fun and completely unprofessional work environment... makes me a little jealous...
Re:High School Kids? by afaik_ianal · 2012-09-18 16:12 · Score: 1

Could explain their web design.
Actually, you're not far off. Their Quality Assurance Coordinator is due to complete their Comp Sci degree this year.
Their "Software Engineer" also plans to graduate this year.
Their "Research Analyst" completed her fine arts degree last year.
Their "Director of Marketing" should finish her Bachelor of Science, Journalism this year.
Odd.
Re:High School Kids? by Psychotria · 2012-09-18 19:11 · Score: 4, Funny

Yes, but what does age have to do with it? This guy, for example, is obviously a leader in his field.

Darren Hampton: Quality Assurance Coordinator
Darren Hampton is an eclectic fellow. Despite being risk averse, he often puts himself in a great deal of minor peril. He is PersonalWeb's Quality Assurance Coordinator, but normally lacks the qualities of a coordinated individual.
The guy bursts into laughter at the slightest provocation, which leads to a very bruised noggin as he loses control of his flailing cranial structure. The danger he poses to himself is insurmountable as he cannot find a way to escape his own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.
Besides laughing at things that really have no comical value, he has been known to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. He especially likes the parts where it goes “wob wob wob.” He also has a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2 and will likely never free himself of the game. The one thing he hates is stepping on Legos without shoes... and jerks.
If that's not a glowing review of talent and competence, I don't know what is.
Oh, and Clarissa Andrews likes dying her hair!
Re:High School Kids? by Psychotria · 2012-09-18 19:16 · Score: 2

I would like to add: Clarissa, if you're reading this I'd do you. Definitely. I don't care about the colour of your hair. You're a hot diggety dog! *KISS*
Re:High School Kids? by Psychotria · 2012-09-18 22:59 · Score: 1

Change my username? Like hell! I change my username less than I change my clothes. And the girls, they like it!
Re:High School Kids? by Psychotria · 2012-09-18 23:49 · Score: 1

Clarissa here... sorry Psychotria, I'm sure you are a decent catch, like all slashdot trolls, but I'm already involved in an illicit and steamy relationship with Denise and Sheena. So far all we do is make out, take baths together and model lingerie for each other, but I have a strong feeling something deeper may develop.
Thanks for the reply, Clarissa. This is indeed wonderful news! Of course I will participate in a 4-way affair between you, Denise, Sheena, and myself! Never in my wildest dreams did I dare contemplate such an exotic relationship. I, too, think that something deeper may develop between the 4 of us.
The only thing I ask is that you girls treat me gently. This is my first adventure out of the basement and although I am filled with ecstasy by your offer I do have to admit that I am nervous as well.
I have written a poem for you: "Your eyes, like sapphires". Umm, that's as far as I've got.

Let all companies be destroyed? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 14:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

No, then the only companies left would be the patent trolls.

Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by mwvdlee · 2012-09-18 19:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

Apple - love or hate them - makes products based on those patents.
So no, they are not patent trolls.
They may use borderline invalid patents in an offensive and anticompetitive way, but they are not simply trolling.

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Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by realityimpaired · 2012-09-18 23:39 · Score: 3, Insightful

It used to be that suing was the last ditch effort of a company that had stopped innovating. When you're coming out with new product, who cares if somebody's copying last year's version?
The problem is, Apple isn't innovating any more, and their patents aren't for actual products, they're for concepts that should be considered obvious by anybody in the industry. All they have left to them are incremental updates for existing products, and anybody with their ear to the ground in technology can predict these updates before they announce them... was *anybody* surprised that the big upgrade for the iPhone 5 was a higher resolution screen and LTE radio, or that the iPad 3 was a higher resolution screen and more processing power? And if you're able to predict what's next, and you happen to be a company that's competing against them, then it's pretty easy to come up with the next version before they do, and Apple ends up caught with their pants down, as has been done with the market for 7" tablets. The end result? Apple's trying to sue everybody to prevent them from competing, because, as a company, they stopped really innovating years ago.
The same generally goes for other players in the global patent wars too, mind you... it's not that I hate Apple (though I do) that I choose them as the whipping boy, it's because they're the most obvious to make the case with. What I just said can equally be applied to Samsung, LG, or HTC in the mobile phone market, and pretty much any player in modern technology. It's been a long while since anybody came up with something that was really *new* that wasn't just a more efficient way to do what we were already doing. Even the main drivers for the smartphone market, which Apple claims to have invented (we'll pretend Palm, Sony, and Blackberry didn't already have smartphones), had been done 10 years before the iPhone it the market... downloadable apps by Palm, and mobile e-mail/calendar by Ericcson (digital PCS).
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Gr8Apes · 2012-09-19 04:49 · Score: 2

The problem is, Apple isn't innovating any more, and their patents aren't for actual products, they're for concepts that should be considered obvious by anybody in the industry.
Yep, everyone went with touch screens instead of keypads prior to the iPhone. Everyone had a nice "big" at that time screen. Yep, everyone. I mean, let's not be revisionist, the iPhone hit the streets 5 years ago. Patents are good for 20 years. Anyone copying any tech patented in the iPhone should be sued, it's Apple's fiduciary responsibility, if nothing less. BTW, where are the retina screens for anyone else, other than Samsung, who also happens to manufacture the screens for Apple?

All they have left to them are incremental updates for existing products, and anybody with their ear to the ground in technology can predict these updates before they announce them... was *anybody* surprised that the big upgrade for the iPhone 5 was a higher resolution screen and LTE radio, or that the iPad 3 was a higher resolution screen and more processing power?
Nope, nor the new CPU in the iPhone that doubles the processing power, exceeding the performance of all other current phones on the market by 30%? A CPU designed by Apple? Nope, they're certainly not innovating.

And if you're able to predict what's next, and you happen to be a company that's competing against them, then it's pretty easy to come up with the next version before they do, and Apple ends up caught with their pants down, as has been done with the market for 7" tablets. The end result? Apple's trying to sue everybody to prevent them from competing, because, as a company, they stopped really innovating years ago.
Yep, you've certainly made your valid point there - Apparently Apple has 0 innovation in them over the past 5 years (when was the iPad released again and who did they copy?)

It's been a long while since anybody came up with something that was really *new* that wasn't just a more efficient way to do what we were already doing.
Do you have the slightest clue what innovation is, and what patents are about?

Even the main drivers for the smartphone market, which Apple claims to have invented (we'll pretend Palm, Sony, and Blackberry didn't already have smartphones), had been done 10 years before the iPhone it the market... downloadable apps by Palm, and mobile e-mail/calendar by Ericcson (digital PCS).
For all intents and purposes, Apple did invent the smartphone market as it stand today. Otherwise, wouldn't Blackberry, Sony, and Palm all own the market?

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Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-25 19:07 · Score: 1

"when was the iPad released again and who did they copy?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tablet_computers
You're welcome.
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Gr8Apes · 2012-09-27 00:38 · Score: 1

It's a nice history. I see lots of attempts at tablet PCs, including Apple's own Newton. After all, since the iPad is "the" tablet today, owns the lion's share of the tablet market due to Apple's innovative design, and the fact that Apple was roundly criticized on the announcement of the iPad, including lots of jokes, some were even funny, but you don't hear any of those any more. Oh, what tablet did the iPad replace again?
So, I repeat, who did they copy? Or are you going to say that the Wright brothers merely copied other (failed) attempts at creating a flying machine?

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Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by techsoldaten · 2012-10-01 16:30 · Score: 3, Interesting

So... much... to... argue... with... there...
If you really want to argue who invented the smartphone market, it was Danger. Say all you want about Palm, but the Sidekick was the device that really proved the model for apps on mobile devices. I mean this in the sense of apps as opposed to applications, where you have over the air updates for the system. The market for smartphones would not be a tenth of what it is were that not the case. Had they not sold out to Microsoft, the smartphone world would be a very different place to day.
The OP does appear to understand what innovation is. Innovation !== features enhancements, however, which are often a natural product of ongoing R&D that make their way into a product. Apple using a retina display is a feature enhancement, Apple building one in the first place is innovation. As you said, this was Samsung.
In regards to the design of the iPad, Jonathan Ives did not have the original idea for it. There were prototype drawings from the 80s describing very similar devices. Just because Apple was able to make the push to actually build the thing and mass-market it does not really mean the company conceived of the device completely from scratch.
I mean, citing the iPad and iPhone as examples of innovation is all well and good, if we were talking about how innovative they were in 2007. It's 2012 now, where are the new products and ideas that are going to make the world more efficient and exciting than it was before? I know they have made bids to get involved in automobile manufacturing, televisions and other consumer electronics, and other verticals. Innovation in these areas would be magnificent to see.
Instead, there are no new products this year, and there is a lot of talk about reducing their line (there is still talk Mac Pros may be going away altogether in the next year or so). you look at Samsung, you see a company that is involved in every major area of consumer manufacturing. They have a strong defense business as well, and their semiconductor unit continues to keep creating new things all the time. Apple is a little too concerned about their stock price to try anything new anymore. I don't see them as capable of producing disruptive technology so long as the fundamentals of their business model discourage risk in their major product lines.
What we are seeing it not technology innovation, it's more like business model innovation.
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by rtfa-troll · 2012-10-01 19:07 · Score: 1

The interesting thing here is that you are perfectly right in the case of an iPad. Apple should have almost 100% credit for the tablet computer. There were many prior attempts, Microsoft has been making tablet PCs for years, and they were complete failures. The work that Apple did was the most important work to make it useful. Unfortunately it's exactly the kind of work that the patent system is designed to destroy.
The essential patents on tablets belong to companies like IBM, Sony, Samsung, Nokia, Motorola and Microsoft. These guys did work on tablets before Apple and so they got the patents. Microsoft is sort of excluded since they have a cross licensing deal with Apple, but you have to remember that that means they get money from the iPad. This is why Nokia has already had a huge settlement out of Apple on phones and we can expect that Motorola will be able to close them down completely at some time soon.
What Apple shows is that innovation only happens when companies completely ignore the patent system. Look at Nokia which ended up spoiling their interface with a resistive screen and a stupid, inconvenient zoom gesture in order to avoid the one, invalid, potential patent Apple had and has almost completely lost it in the mobile phone market since.

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Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by TsuruchiBrian · 2012-10-02 06:36 · Score: 1

The problem is the enforcement and adjudication of the laws. I don't blame private companies with shareholders for trying to do everything within the law to maximize profits. It is not their job to play fair. It is their job to win. It is the job of the referee (i.e. the government/people) to make sure the corporations are playing fair. Fair play benefits the people. It is our job to ensure that the easiest path to success is making the best product for the least cost, and not by making your better by comparison through making your competitors products worse by hindering them. There is already a non-obvious clause in the current patent law. I feel like if that were just enforced that part of the law correctly, everything (while still not perfect) would be a lot better. In a system where everyone is allowed to cheat, even otherwise good actors must also cheat just to stay competitive. You need a massive stockpile of bogus patents to defend yourself, and now that you have it, you are more tempted to use it. It's an arms race without the mutually assured destruction of the atom bomb. The only legitimate purpose for IP laws is to spur innovation. Every industry should have it's IP laws carefully tailored to maximize innovation (even if that means no IP laws at all). We should be using these kinds of laws sparingly for industries where it has been demonstrated to be essential to innovation, and with constant re-evaluation to insure they are adjusted when necessary.
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by bursch-X · 2012-10-02 10:01 · Score: 1

The wright brothers copied the successful earlier attempt to fly by the Lilienthal brothers, their only innovation was putting an engine in the thing, which was somewhat innovative.

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Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by sg_oneill · 2012-10-02 11:31 · Score: 1

I almost brought one of those damn things hoping to cash in on a "goldmine" of app development, but the only telco here that offered them had absurd terms, and there where , I believe , some onerous requirements for devs.
I'm glad I didn't , they where fairly absurd devices retrospectively.

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Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Gr8Apes · 2012-10-03 12:57 · Score: 1

I'm not sure MS gets a penny out of the iPad other than from it's 150M arm-twisted investment. I know that Apple has various patents on the touch features, from technical to design to look and feel.
But - I'm not arguing the patent systems (in)validity here.

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Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Gr8Apes · 2012-10-03 12:58 · Score: 1

You're an idiot - prior companies did market and patent their ideas, but their execution ranged from terrible to catastrophic.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Gr8Apes · 2012-10-03 13:01 · Score: 1

Yep, you're right - looking at the various wonderful Lilienthal brothers "planes" one can see that obviously the only thing missing was an engine. </sarcasm>

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:Let all companies be destroyed? by Gr8Apes · 2012-10-03 13:17 · Score: 1

You wanted to argue? Yet you didn't.
The Sidekick was a great device when it came out. What happened to Palm?
The retina display may barely be an innovation in manufacturing, it's merely evolutionary in terms of displays, as it's merely higher density existing tech cells. Apple using one in a phone might also be evolutionary. Being able to integrate all of the features and capabilities into a seamless whole? That pretty much has to be seen as innovation since so many others have failed at doing so. Once its done, however, it's easy to copy - witness Samsung.
Regarding the iPad design: there have been concepts of a small handheld notebook like video device since the 50s. Just because someone "wishes" it, or writes of it in a book or has it in a movie or show does not make it real. Or will you argue that should a warp drive ever be invented, that's it's merely a copy of a concept in Star Trek?
As for citing the iPhone and iPad as innovative designs for 2007 and 2010 respectively, just exactly how fast must a company come out with another new product to be considered to continue innovating? After all, it's only been a little over 2 years. (Hint: most companies would sell off their entire families to have a product half as innovative and successful as either one of these 2 products, or the iPod or iPod touch before them)
You're correct - this years announcements were a disappointment to the mac folks. Yes, I expected a reduction in the line, possibly more to come. If you think about it, a Mac Pro is an anachronism when you can plop down 4 minis in a tower and use them as a grid with far more bandwidth than a mac pro can deliver for less money. But, I'm sure when this comes about you'll call it evolutionary, since gee - grid computing is so 1960s, completely ignoring that this is grid computing in a $600 package that uses less than 40w and is a pluggable system with virtually no management overhead.
That last one is a guess, but based on what I'm seeing, I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple head that way - after all, FCPX is already 80% of the way there. Thunderbolt provides the last necessary piece. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.

Their first patent... by viperidaenz · 2012-09-18 14:47 · Score: 4, Informative

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,978,791.PN.&OS=PN/5,978,791&RS=PN/5,978,791 They better go and sue Oracle. This describes the function of java.util.Hashtable.... hangon, that's been around since 1996 and the patent was filled in 1997.

Re:Their first patent... by icebraining · 2012-09-19 03:32 · Score: 1

How can I tell that someone hasn't read the claims?
Their patent is about using those identifier to know from a pool of servers which have the data. It's closer, but still not quite, like database sharding.

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Dilbert RSS feed
Re:Their first patent... by poofmeisterp · 2012-09-19 08:26 · Score: 1

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,978,791.PN.&OS=PN/5,978,791&RS=PN/5,978,791
They better go and sue Oracle. This describes the function of java.util.Hashtable.... hangon, that's been around since 1996 and the patent was filled in 1997.
Funny how the patent review officer never seems to catch these dag'gon things.
Re:Their first patent... by viperidaenz · 2012-09-19 09:21 · Score: 1

You mean how a hashtable takes a hash of the key (an identifier based on the content) and puts it in a particular spot based on that hash?

Why? by apcullen · 2012-09-18 15:15 · Score: 1

Could someone explain why the eastern district of Texas is friendlier than the rest of the country to these kinds of suits? Are jurors dumber there? Is is more difficult to mount a defense there?

Re:Why? by Silvanis · 2012-09-18 15:57 · Score: 1

Because under the current system, you can sue anyone who is "doing business" in a location. As long as you accept online sales, you are doing business anywhere. Add to that the attractiveness of bringing in lots of court fees, and some politicians in Texas got the idea to appoint judges that would be extremely patent friendly. They then brag about the high rate of settlements/favorable judgements and the speed in which the court will hear your case
Bottom line: marketing and politics created a forum for patent trolls to get a court to back up their extortion. Texas rakes in the court costs, the trolls rake in the settlement/judgement money, and everyone is happy....right? :P
Re:Why? by Patent+Lover · 2012-09-18 16:13 · Score: 4, Informative

They have a "rocket docket" which processes patent suits more quickly than other district courts and an attorney licensed to practice in any state can practice before the court.
Re:Why? by TheDarkMaster · 2012-09-18 23:37 · Score: 1

Humm... Time to nuke eastern Texas from orbit.

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Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Re:Why? by idontgno · 2012-09-19 03:44 · Score: 1

WAIT! Don't do that! The collateral damage may include Lousiana and parts of Arkansas!
Oh. Hmm. Never mind. Carry on, and good shootin'.

--
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Re:Why? by the+eric+conspiracy · 2012-10-01 14:48 · Score: 1

Nooooo. Arkansas I don't care either way but damn Louisiana is where I go to get the best food in the world.

They sued IBM, did they? by russotto · 2012-09-18 15:24 · Score: 1

I think the Nazgul are going to have a light snack.

East Texas by Fnord666 · 2012-09-18 15:39 · Score: 5, Interesting

With any luck this will backfire since a key judge that made East Texas such a hotspot for patent infringement lawsuits retired from the US District Court last year.

This article does a pretty good job of looking at the situation in East Texas with regards to patent trials. It is an interesting read. It will be eye opening to some and a confirmation to others.

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'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables

Texas Sucks by CuteSteveJobs · 2012-09-18 15:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

> It’s apparent that the people filing the suit don’t understand the technology or the products enough to realize that Rackspace Cloud Servers and GitHub are completely different products from different companies."

The problem is that if you are sued for patent infringement - regardless of the merits of the case - you are up for $2M in lawyers fees and court costs to defend it. Recently a judge speaking out against trolls said $3M - $5M. If you're a small company or worse - a lone developer - that will send you bankrupt. The suit will most likely be filed in a troll-friendly court district such as the East District of Texas as this case was. The judges in E.D. Texas there are notoriously pro-troll and won't dismiss even the most stupid of cases. http://www.technologyreview.com/news/405259/a-haven-for-patent-pirates/

Trolling causes a lot of damage for innovators elsewhere in the US, but it is huge source of revenue for E.D. Texas. Congressmen from these other districts need to gang up against the Texas trolls and Congressmen: http://www.house.gov/representatives/#state_tn

Re:Texas Sucks by Tablizer · 2012-09-18 20:03 · Score: 1

If you're a small company or worse - a lone developer - that will send you bankrupt.

Couldn't you negotiate a percentage of the revenue or profits? They should realize that dead companies supply zero royalties.
Biological parasites don't do well when they outright kill the host. A relatively healthy host is the best food supply and is the best strategy for parasites, reproductive-wise. (Mutant parasites can pop up that outright kill hosts, but they tend to not last as long.)

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:Texas Sucks by tofarr · 2012-09-19 02:09 · Score: 1

Depends on the ability of the parasite to capture a new host once they are finished with their current one - see parasitic wasps that lay their eggs in caterpillars as an example.

Oh, patent... by kiriath · 2012-09-18 16:05 · Score: 1

I thought it said patient troll...

Little tip guys, don't drink and slashdot.

Re:notoriously pro-troll by TaoPhoenix · 2012-09-18 16:21 · Score: 2

Dramatization of processing wins for Intellectual Property holders in East Texas. (I know, this is satire, ignore the different country.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P46qYCIt954

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My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine

Re: patient troll by TaoPhoenix · 2012-09-18 16:24 · Score: 2

Oh, they are patient too. 12 years is a long time to wait on a partent portfolio before suing, even for something as juicy as trolling.

"The patents asserted in these lawsuits were developed by a company called Kinetech Inc. The portfolio was split up in 2000, and itâ(TM)s now co-owned by PersonalWeb and Level 3 Communications, a large internet infrastructure company."

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My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine

Drumroll please... by deblau · 2012-09-18 16:54 · Score: 2

And the winner is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Bermeister

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This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.

'Patent trolls' cost other US bodies $29bn by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 17:02 · Score: 1

Patent trolls are a $29 billion tax on innovation:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18598559

The USPTO needs to be disbanded, pure and simple. It's never going to get its act together, its never going to restrict itself to patents for clear inventions, the NET damage they're doing is too great, time to end patents altogether.

Re:'Patent trolls' cost other US bodies $29bn by lhunath · 2012-09-18 21:05 · Score: 1

I personally wouldn't mind patents becoming restricted to a 6month lifetime.
That way the innovator has 6 months of head-start until the rest of the world is free to compete.

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``OK, so ten out of ten for style, but minus several million for good thinking, yeah?''
Re:'Patent trolls' cost other US bodies $29bn by icebraining · 2012-09-19 03:23 · Score: 1

If the invention is so insignificant that competitors can imitate it, incorporate it into their products and release the new versions in less than six months, does the company really deserve a patent?

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Dilbert RSS feed

Former VP Dick Cheney could solve this problem by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2012-09-18 19:18 · Score: 1

We just need to encourage him to take these folks out on a "hunting" trip.

Actually, I would like to see blatant patent trolling to be treated as a criminal offense. It's a racket, and should be whacked using RICO laws. These folks set up a shell company and sue, sue, sue. One win is enough to keep them going. If these lose big, and the shell company goes bankrupt, they just set up another one and continue.

The problem is differentiating them from legitimate patent suits. Patent lawyers could help to give direction to law makers. But why should they? The make money on both sides of patent troll litigation.

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Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!

It will all go well by Psychotria · 2012-09-18 19:52 · Score: 3, Funny

Attorney: Judge, we would like to put our QA Coordinator on the stand as an expert witness.
Judge: Darren Hampton, please take the stand.
Judge: Please describe your role at the company and your formal qualifications.
Darren: I am an eclectic fellow, but despite myself being risk averse I often put myself in a great deal of minor peril.
Judge: Please proceed.
Darren: Although I am am coordinator, I normally lack the qualities of a coordinated individual. I burst into laughter at the slightest provocation.
Judge: Understood.
Darren: *bursts out laughing*
Judge: *bashes Darren on the head with his gavel*
Darren: Sorry, sir. The danger I pose to myself is insurmountable and I cannot find a way to escape my own person or the hilarious occurrences that seem to develop daily.
Judge: Are you retarded?
Darren: I like to partake in the listening of mind-blowing techno. I especially likes the parts where it goes "wob wob wob."
Judge: Next witness please.
Darren: Wait.
Judge: Ok.
Darren: I have a deep addiction to Team Fortress 2. I also don't like stepping on Legos (sic) without shoes. /me jerks.
Judge: Next witness.
Court Dude: Sheena Walker, please take the stand.
Sheena: Oh, hai!
Judge: Sheena, please describe your experience and formal qualifications.
Sheena: I love research! Yay! My favourite holidy is St. Patricks Day and I luuuv green and light green. Like shamrocks, you know.
Judge: Continue.
Sheena: Like, yeah. What was I saying? Oh yeah! I love my Mini Schnauzer, Missy, to death! Yeah!
Sheena: I once took a picture of a sunset!
Judge: What has this got to do with the case.
Sheena: Hey, judgie. I love Big Brother. I once had a piano in my ear! I went to the, yeah, University of Texas! Yeah. I didn't finish but I think I want to one day. I have been debating this with myself.
Judge: You talk to yourself?
Sheena: No, Judgie, I debate with myself. Anyway, hey, in the meantime I am learning like lots.

The patents should be easy to invalidate by Chrisq · 2012-09-18 20:13 · Score: 1

The first patent seems to be describing duplicate elimination by hash code (i.e. a Hash Map) when applied to distributed databases (surely as obvious as all the old attempts to add "over wifi" to everything). The second seems to refer to the same thing but retrieving a unique access control along with the data.

Re:The patents should be easy to invalidate by Rich0 · 2012-09-19 13:53 · Score: 1

Yup, and after 3 years, 47 hearings, and 300 briefs they'll have the opportunity to try to invalidate them.
The upside of being sued by a patent troll is that you could win and only lose $3M. The downside is that you could lose and lose every cent you have.

Re:A rather strong argument by Chrisq · 2012-09-18 20:15 · Score: 1

against "non-practicing entities". Let's say... if you obviously don't understand that patent you hold, the patent is empty and void?

You hit the normal problem of treating a company as a person. Does "you" refer to everyone in the company, the CEO, the research department, paid subcontractors, or the office cleaner?

I'm involved in this - providing prior art by viewtouch · 2012-09-18 20:44 · Score: 4, Informative

A lawyer with a law firm defending one of these companies contacted me and visited me last week to review prior art which I have, with the hope that I can assist them and their client in invalidating one or more of these patents. Tomorrow I will be delivering running a copy of my software to the firm to allow them to closely examine it. Most of the companies which have been threatened with patent infringement lawsuits have caved in and agreed to pay the patent holders (Priceline founder Jay Walker and others) rather than attempt to defend themselves in court, however. We'll see how it plays out.

Re:I'm involved in this - providing prior art by Psychotria · 2012-09-18 23:36 · Score: 1

I don't believe you. I think this whole story is a troll about a troll :(
Re:I'm involved in this - providing prior art by viewtouch · 2012-09-19 03:06 · Score: 1

I don't care what you think, whoever you may be.
Re:I'm involved in this - providing prior art by Trogre · 2012-09-19 10:25 · Score: 1

All I can say is, good on you for fighting these trolls and the horrible system that has allowed them to flourish.
Sincerely, thank you.

--
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Re:I'm involved in this - providing prior art by viewtouch · 2012-09-19 16:49 · Score: 1

If you clicked on my username (which is also my trademark) then you at least have an inkling of what I've been at for the past 40 years. Thank you for your appreciation.

Biggest troll ever? by Psychotria · 2012-09-18 23:29 · Score: 1

I've made jokes in this thread about the company profile but I am now wondering if it's a troll in more way than one. Is this a real company that is patent trolling? Or, is it a troll about patent trolling? I am starting to get confused. Surely a real patent troll would create a more professional company profile (??) Surely a company going to court, even in Texas (wherever that is), would have a more "professional" website. Is it April 1st?

Re:Biggest troll ever? by multipartmixed · 2012-09-19 06:03 · Score: 1

It's a real company. I googled the one who likes Texas 42. She has been posting on SEO forums for a year. She is clearly an amateur. But not that kind. :(

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Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

It's the Name of the Game by Robert+Zenz · 2012-09-18 23:31 · Score: 1

I like the version from Crystal Method more...well, the uncensored, that is.

Re:on Jan 20th around dinner time by ixuzus · 2012-09-19 00:45 · Score: 1

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but if Osama has crawled out of his watery grave, turned black, and is wandering the streets of Chicago then patent trolls are not our biggest problem. That being said, zombie Osama v East Texas patent trolls for the title of ultimate evil could be an entertaining match up.

Re: patient troll by ixuzus · 2012-09-19 00:52 · Score: 1

That old? Surely the Laches Doctrine would firm as a favourite to come into play then.

Re:Go after git itself? by icebraining · 2012-09-19 03:34 · Score: 1

Oh really? How does Git "find data in networks using identifiers based on the content of the data"? As far as I know, network operations in Git use URLs, not hashes, to find other repositories.

Read the claims.

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Dilbert RSS feed

Lawyers Like Lawyers to make more money by hillbluffer · 2012-09-19 05:21 · Score: 1

The lawyers who are our Senators, House of Reps, and Executive Branch are glad their drinking buddies in the patent enforcement industry are making a bundle! So there's no reason to expect changes in the patent laws.

Wow by multipartmixed · 2012-09-19 05:55 · Score: 1

Mama mia... I wish I knew how to play Texas 42, whatever that is!!

Also, the CTO appears to be Sheldon's brother.

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Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

Re:Pending U.S. Patent Applications by poofmeisterp · 2012-09-19 08:33 · Score: 1

Seriously, if thoses are granted: America is a lost cause.

13/091,380 Accessing data in a data processing system
13/102,337 Accessing data in a content-addressable data processing system
13/109,208 Accessing data in a content-addressable data processing system
13/352,169 Data Distribution in A Data Processing System
13/351,433 Access Control in A Data Processing System Using Data Item Signatures

http://www.personalweb.com/Technology.html

They're trying to destroy file sharing in a new way!

</humor>

Turn the RIAA/MPAA on the Trolls by cbybear · 2012-10-02 02:46 · Score: 1

When the patent trolls come out, start the sniffing their torrent traffic. I'd almost bet one of the Personal Blah Blah Blah company's employees has downloaded copyrighted content from torrents. Maybe they did at home. All it takes is catching one of them and the company's argument is damaged. True, not really a proper legal thing to do, but in this case, I think a bit of creative hacking for those of us who actually care about these kinds of things would be nice. Not that I am advocating anything illegal...

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