Slashdot Mirror
Russian Opposition Figure Thinks Anti-Putin Movement Has Faltered
New submitter FilatovEV writes "Interview with Russian liberal opposition politician Vladimir Milov taken by Los Angeles Times reveals a different side of the Western narrative about Russia."
From the article: "All they have for a plan is a very simple formula: Let's lead a million people out into the streets, and that will scare the hell out of Putin. He will run away, and we will grab power. But even if they get a sufficient number of people out in the street, they don't know what to do next. All they can do is chant their old anti-Putin incantations instead of offering a program of action. "
Ever see the movie Network?
You have to get mad first...
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
But even if they get a sufficient number of people out in the street, they don't know what to do next.
That's why a lot of political movements end in failure.
His small talk has changed foreign policy. Sasquatch has taken a picture of him. He once ran a marathon, just because it was on his way. He is... the most interesting man in the world.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
I tried to RTFA but I nodded off, where's the bacon guy... has he made to Cali yet?
This sounds a lot like the GOP strategy in the USA:
But even if they get a sufficient number of people out in the street, they don't know what to do next. All they can do is chant their old anti-Putin incantations instead of offering a program of action. "
They are good at trotting out anti-Democrat slogans, but can't articulate any clear plan to improve things for the middle class.
Why is this on Slashdot? Is there a tech/science/maths/nerd angle I'm missing. The guys a dick, and he runs a relatively unimportant country with the spending power of Spain or something.
Sounds much like Occupy Wall Street in the USA. Didn't like the status quo, but doomed with no clear platform or list of achievable goals.
"We want change"
"Well, what policy changes are you hoping get made?"
"We don't know"
1) enact stricter enforcement and regulation on govt involvement with illegal activity. (Russians are supposedly good at being heavy handed. Cracking down on abusive behavior should be easy enough, as long as you can keep the pendulum swinging too far.)
2) legal system reforms that provide immunity to witnesses and juries concerning testimony and verdicts. Make it safe to state what is true, and not simply what is "expected", or "approved."
3) hardball removal and blacklisting of politicians, judges, and prosecutors who fail to live up to #2.
4) prison system reforms
That should be a good starting place.
I am yet to see an enthusiastic democratic party with a well-thought agenda here in Russia. I don't see them much neither on TV (not that I watch it much, though), nor on the streets or the Internet. I could understand the argument that the government is meddling with their publicity time, but they seem to be acting extremely passive and almost lazy on their own web sites as well. I'm having a hunch this is pretty much the reason that they are "allowed" to exist and prove that our country is indeed "democratic". Or maybe the majority of people actually supports the dominating United Russia and no trickery is involved, I really can't tell anymore.
So what exactly are you proposing then, a Russian revolution? Seriously, what *can* they do? They have no governmental authority outside of a vote, and even supposing Putin steps down (itself a ridiculous proposition) they still will have no governmental authority. All they would be able to do, without guns and ammo, is make some noise and hope his replacement listens.
They already have a plan of action and it is shout into the wind and hope people hear. Perhaps enough people will hear so that Putin won't win the next election, perhaps Putin will make some effort to be less of a PITA for them, and perhaps Putin's eventual replacement will take note of their discontent more than he does. Year sure, they can hope Putin will step down, but who among the protestors really think that's gonna happen. Remember that Putin in all likelihood won the vote without direct fraud, so making noise in public really is an end to itself right now.
Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
...and this is technology-related news how?
It could fall under the second part of the slogan: "news that matters."
Deteriorating political conditions in and between Russia and the rest of the world, as Russia makes the dive deeper back down the rabbithole of communist dictatorial govt and secrecy, can have far-reaching implications internationally.
Take for instance, the "strained" relations between Russia and the USA, concerning the strategic missile installations being installed in the middle eastern puppet states. A fully dictator led Russia under Putin could herald a return to cold-war aggression between the USA and Russia.
We narrowly escaped nuclear armagheddon last time, because the USA was more financially prosperous, and won by attrition.
Seen the state of USA's financial prosperity lately? I wouldn't bet on that outcome for part II.
It is interesting, however I do not see the reason for this to be on slashdot.....
Get a bunch of people out in the street, then don't have a plan on what to do.
Apologies for the mis-attribution.
This kind of thing happens all the time, at all levels of government in all kinds of countries. Some folks don't like what the mayor is doing or the president or the governor. They start a campaign against the current government. If only everybody would see the light and join the movement, they could sweep out the old. But it never works. They don't have a program of action. The political party is basically the solution to this problem. A group of people with a common goal works out a program of action. It takes years. They communicate that program of action over and over again explaining how it would really make things better. They patiently remind voters when the government steals their ideas and implements them half heartedly. Eventually they get a few members elected. They work hard for their constituents and people are impressed. Word gets out that they are serious about their program. Over the span of several election cycles they increase their influence. Eventually they get elected and have to deal first hand with the messy business of changing government direction without angering too many voters. Maybe they will be elected again. Or maybe they will never be elected because the government party morphs into a party with almost the same program of action. Or some other opposition party does so. No matter. The important thing is to communicate ideas for change and see them implemented.
Street demonstrations are only a very small tool in the arsenal and don't work well unless the government is really actively repressive.
Everywhere, in the government and in the supporters of change, there are agent provocateurs stirring things up because they have a different agenda. Nobody every fully understands what is going on. Only in the most repressive environments are people foolish enough to react in a knee-jerk fashion. In most of the developed world voters tend to wait and see, and only move towards change in baby steps. That is the nature of human society and wishful thinking will not change it.
Today in Russia, life is good for more people that it is in the USA. Perhaps that is partly because Russians do not expect so much as Americans, but it is also partly because Russians have different cultural priorities. The same solutions do not work in both America and Russia. Some Russians would love to sweep aside the old (new) order and install something copied from abroad. But change very rarely occurs that way, and maybe the world is now to populous and interconnected for it to ever happen again. 1917 is history. Russia is no longer a country of revolutions. Boris Yeltsin could not muster as many supporters as the Bolsheviks. And the current crop of Russian complainers who talk to western reporters are not able to muster as many as Yeltsin was able to.
More Westerners should go to Russia for a holiday. It is a fascinating place to visit and it is so huge that you can only ever see a small bit of it. Spend a couple of days in Moscow if you must, but the real Russia is elsewhere and is full of surprises.
Reminds me of the Perot campaign. We'll never really know what was going through his head. It really did seem like there was a "OMG, I never thought it would get this far, now what?" kind of dynamic there.
Such a shame, because if he had an actual organization behind him, he might have taken us in a better direction. That whole thing spawned the Reform Party, but it sputtered. The American people knew things were running off the rails, even then. They were hungry for a real American in the White House. Sigh...
"Russians don't have any problems with Putin".
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Putin is a man who rejects Western liberalism and its evil works. Russia is still trying to recover from communism, another ruinous Western invention.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I, for being one of the citizens of one of these puppet states, welcome our new nuke-wielding, choice-giving overlord.
On a serious note, US radar installations - built under the guise of "humanitarian NATO purposes", are giving rather crisp picture of geopolitical situation in ex-soviet satellite states of eastern to mid Europe. CIA prefers to buy politicians via straight, old fashioned strong-arm political tactics (think ACTA) against EU and state politicians. Russian influence, on the other hand, manifests itself via ex-criminal oligarchs from the 90s, who are actually the most powerful financial groups in our area nowadays.
Basically, the roles have switched. Americans are thought-police, whatever Moscow used to be under the communist rule. Russians are all about hard cold cash and much more subtle - it's take it or leave it. US tactics is really strong arm, which is effective only short term, it will eventually end with swift reaction to the opposite direction.
Except that they're not. The Russians were fooled once with Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Unbridled capitalism does not work. Putin is a dictator, but he is a dictator who wants Russia to remain strong and to make oligarchs subservient to the interests of the state.
It's exactly the same approach which has made China successful, except that China is about forty years behind in human rights terms: allow businessmen to get rich by doing whatever it is they do as long as they don't act against the interests of the country. By doing exactly the opposite since Reagan/Thatcher - i.e. making governments subservient to the will of big business - we are now in the shit.
I would vote Putin any day. I don't want the right to a free press which will be ignored anyway - illusions of freedom serve no purpose to anyone but the stupid.
Amen !!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
From TFA:
How do your colleagues take your criticism?
Unfortunately, they took my criticism very badly and accused me of having been recruited by the Kremlin. I don't have any relations with them now. I think these people must leave the political stage and engage themselves in writing stories and blogs, exposing corruption schemes and so on, and leave the political work to those who want to struggle for power in earnest.
You, for example?
Why not? I could make a very good opposition candidate.
I do not know why TFA appears on Slashdot.
What is Slashdot anyway?
Is Slashdot a place for geeks whose interests are girls and tech.
Or has Slashdot become a place for fanbois of Western democracies?
Is Slashdot so hard up on credible stories that this type of shameless plug of a pathetic Russian politician.
TFA has nothing to do with sexy technology, nor anything about online censorship.
What the hell is Slashdot turning into?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
...and this is technology-related news how?
Yep, 'cause we are actually talkin' about whether will be blocked Youtube FOR ALL or not (for example).
http://habrahabr.ru/post/151759/
--
From Russia (=~ Rush Hour) With Love
s/Coward/Brave/
Ok, yeah?
... paid pro-Putin poster. Since his russian forum is full of propaganda stuff about "rotten Western world", "stupid americans" and "great country of China".
I see a lot of comments here from people living in the States and in Central Europe,
but unless you read and speak Russian fluently I doubt you would really know enough to comment on such a statement.
How Putin is portrayed in the western media is going to be a lot different to the reality of Putin in Russia.
People are making wild assumptions based on stock answers to everything to do with Russia, and the ones from the states are the funniest
with their ideas on Russia being based on a cold war notion of Russia that passed by some 30 or more years ago.
The saddest thing is that the OP is probably right. The opposition to Putin may be faltering but I wouldnt dare to presume
they are right since I dont know enough about the day-to-day events of Russian politics as intimately as a Russian national would.
Interesting read though, OP, very interesting
You can't fight cheese curds and gravy with ideology.
Putin is the Boss
Sad but true. The West has demonstrated to the russian people over the 90s that capitalism and freedom means the freedom to exploit economic power to grab from the poor. I am afraid that this lesson stuck with them. Putin mangaged to redirect the (oil,gas) companies to pay enough taxes that a once bancrupt country is debt-free. The west has the habit of shaking the hands of dictators and oligarchs without considering moral whenever there seems to be profit and the wonder why the people in the tese countries can not get used to the idea of freedom and democracy.
What are these girls you talk about? Only thing I know about female has to do with connectors where the female connector tends to be the "hole" where the male connector inserts into.
But what this has to do with girls, I have no idea.
Perhaps a girl came up with the labels for connectors?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The Russians were fooled once with Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Unbridled capitalism does not work. Putin is a dictator, but he is a dictator who wants Russia to remain strong and to make oligarchs subservient to the interests of the state.
1. After the USSR has fallen apart, there was a period called primitive accumulation of capital (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_accumulation_of_capital). It was very violent and unstable, but capitalism had not yet formed. It was pre-capitalism.
2. When Putin came to power, capitalism was buried before it was born, the country spiralled into dictatorship. What it meant is that capital got redistributed again between Putins' friends and relatives. The only concern of so called government now is to ensure the capital stays in their hands, no matter the cost.
Mod parent up!
Its the exact reality in the East European slave teritories..
In Russia fair elections and free (means controlled by big businesses) media will result in Special Olympics game of shit-throwing, so every candidate will be in deep shit and the one who will promise more free money to old people and throw more quality shit on the opponents will win. .
If such is indeed the case, then congratulations for adopting what looks for all the world like American politics today. I guess all of that Cold War-era Voice of America broadcasting paid off after all.
Actually, my take on it, based on conversations with some Russian engineers I work with, is that Russia has been an oligarchy since the time of Peter the Great. Only the faces and names of the oligarchs and their "systems" have changed over the centuries. The nomenklatura will always run things via government, corporatism, and/or organized crime. The long-suffering average Russian knows this and shrugs,
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.