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Intel CEO Tells Staff Windows 8 Is Being Released Prematurely
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from Geek.com: "Intel CEO Paul Otellini may be getting an angry phone call from Steve Ballmer today after it was revealed he told staff in Taiwan Windows 8 isn't ready for release. Otellini's comments were made at an internal meeting in Taipai, and he must have naively thought they would never become public knowledge. We don't know if he went into detail about what exactly is unfinished about Windows 8, but others have commented about a lack of reliable driver support and supporting applications. For many who have picked up previous versions of the Windows desktop OS early, this probably isn't coming as a surprise."
Aero looks much, much nicer than a flat rectangle that is one color. It's too bad that the window chrome got bashed so bad. Of course a likely reason for it is that tablets will run primarily on battery and Aero might be a drain on that.
Well, the saying "the line between genius and insanity is thin" can probably be modified slightly here to something like "the line between awesome and steaming-pile-of-frustrating-monkey-shit is thin".
Then your statement makes more sense.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Yes, but have you used it on a computer?
Apparently the Start Menu isn't working yet. I can't even find the Start Button.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Why were you beta testing on a production machine?
Already got your monthly astroturf paycheck?
S.B, would like to thank you for licking his albanian car. (TopGear UK viewers will know what I mean)
Has windows ever been released with full driver support? Windows 7 still has driver issues, XP had driver issues for years etc.... I'm not sure what his point was if he mentioned driver support.
"...I was beta testing the release client."
You don't say...
This is not news. Microsoft have ALWAYS released new OSes prematurely. Users basically beta test the OS, and then MS goes on an ad nauseum patch release cycle for bugs that have been found. I recall that it took XP at least 2 to 3 years before it was solid. And, let's not forget Vista. That was nothing else than a stop-gap release of underperforming beta software.
There are a number of programs that I can get to load on Windows XP and Windows 7, but not Windows Vista.
Vista has a lot more problems than just drivers.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Didn't people learn anything from Windows Vista?
No sig today...
In all the Slashdot articles trashing windows 8, the one and only criticism ever brought up here is of Metro and the start menu. Windows 8 is stable, uses minimal resources, performs well, features a variety of real improvements to the UI and workflow, is secure, is scalable to hardware even 7 years old (at least), is compatible with almost all software available for Windows 7, is compatible with almost all drivers for Windows 7... for almost all tangible measures of the ability of an operating sytem, it's ready, and has been for a long time. Public betas and pre-releases have been available for over a year now, including a free RTM evaluation, so we've all been free to test and evaluate it on our own machines. And still the *only* complaint anyone here (a place where Microsoft is derided at every turn for stability, performance, and security) ever manages to come up with is their own opinion on launcher preferences. If that's the worst you can come up with for Windows 8, I'd say it's good to go.
Driver support ALWAYS lags because some companies are lazy. The big guys, Intel, AMD, nVidia, all seem to have drivers out on time and Windows 8 is no exception. You can get 8 drivers from them, life is good. However more specialty companies often lag badly. There's no Windows 8 drivers for any pro audio interfaces I can find, but that's no surprise I remember that it took M-Audio the better part of a year for Windows 7.
There's just never going to be good driver support for a new OS on account of companies not wanting to bother. Even if the drivers don't need any changes, just testing and re-certification it can take time or just not happen at all.
Ugg... stop it with the shill accounts, Microsoft. They're too transparent for anyone to take seriously.
Well, it seems that Microsoft didn't.
which is totally what she said
They don't let you use forks and knives when you eat, do they?
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Its like windows vista... Its a "lets dip our feet in the water" sort of pull.
I would say its *very* preemptive to release it so shortly after people have just gotten used to Win7 and Win2008 R2. After playing with win8 and win2012, there's no way I can see either as any sort of viable OS. Trying to get people to use either is a very long jump - maybe its a long jump to see how much win8 will be used on tablets.
Win2012 is, to me, a disaster. There's no start button - instead you must mouse down to pixel 0,0 where there's nothing to indicate "hey - start button here" and when you do discover it, its like being given a camaro, only to discover that the V-8 has been pulled out and rigged with a 4 cylinder. There's also another hidden bar for "charms." Why all the hiding?
Hyper-V has improved a little, and there are some administrative functionality that, if you know how to get to, might be useful...
I just think its too soon - people are comfortable with Win7 and more importantly, have gotten comfortable with Win2008 R2, and how to manage each. Big corps are just now adopting Win7, and people tend to take their "work" home with them. They have gotten comfortable with the new OS, and IT people are stubborn.
And, lets face it - VMWare beat Microsoft to the VM punch, and that's where most small and medium, and especially large enterprises. Sure Win2012 is now manageable by one workstation, but we've been managing servers with RDP and VMware's native console passthrough for a long time.
I'm sure lots of other people have their opinions, so lets see those.
Inventing a throw-a-chair-over-the-telephone device.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
He knew perfectly well it would be leaked.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
And I can say it's great, and it's terrible.
The great -- it's really, really fast. Boot times are under 10 seconds to completely usable, apps launch fast, and IE10 is really not as bad as I thought it might be. The snapping of windows to side by side and whatever work really, really well, and I find myself more productive by seeing my email snapped to the side and then browsing or whatever.
The bad -- the experience is really jarring. Most of my time is spent in the "desktop" which is a complete carryover from Windows 7. I would have thought that Microsoft would have taken the effort to re-skin that in a way better than they have (see here: http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept), but they didn't. It's a complete lack of effort. Not to mention, that things like battery life remaining, the time, are hidden into the OS and don't make appearances anywhere.
The ugly -- Media Center. Fuck man, that's probably the best app in Windows, and could really kick the crap out of the Apple TV or Google TV if it was properly developed. With Windows 8's API structure there could be a lot of integration here, making media center the "hub" for entertainment on the PC. So if you wanted Netflix, or Amazon, or whatever - you'd have to integrate it into Media Center. But they just booted it out because people weren't using it. Of course they weren't... when you treat it like a third rate product, it's going to get third rate attention.
Also ugly -- control panel. There are two of them in the OS. One is the 'desktop' version which remains unchanged from Windows 7, and then there's the Metro one that lets you work on settings for "Metro". Additionally multi monitor support with "hot spots" is a nightmare. I have two monitors and at work, I have 3. Trying to get into the bottom right or left to click on the start menu is extremely difficult, and in a remote desktop window, even harder. You can't use shortcut keys in remote desktop, but I've gotten used to using Windows Key + C for the charms bar, but realistically it's annoying.
All in all it's a mixed bag. Microsoft needs to step up development to complete the UI experience because right now it's a joke. The OS itself is fundamentally better too, in terms of speed, stability, resource usage, sleep/hibernate, etc. However nobody's going to care if it acts like a fucked up monster to play with. Most people will adapt, as they always do, and it's not terribly hard to get used to. But if you want to compete in a world of where Apple makes design a #1 priority, and people VALUE that, then you have to fix the UI experience in Windows. It's not all about usability.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
It has some definite elements of awesome, but it's interface is such a turd that it's hard to look past that. I've been developing a Windows 8 class for Support staff. There's been so many times when I exclaim "Cool! That should have been in Win7". Then I have to go back to that duct-taped construction paper and glue start screen and the mystique fades away. After using it for a few weeks, I don't hate it as much as when I started, but I still wouldn't load it on my personal machine.
There may be no "I" in team, but there's also no "F" in way.
The first rule of Windows Vista is: You do not install Windows Vista.
The second rule of Windows Vista is: You DO NOT install Windows Vista.
microsoft needs the OEMs more than the OEMs need microsoft
I don't think so. Once OEMs start breaking with Microsoft maybe but right now they still are all Windows shops.
A good deal of Windows 7 drivers work, however most companies aren't updating their support for 8 yet.
I realize it isn't an issue for geeks but it is for normal users. They go and have a look at what their hardware supports, don't see Windows 8, and say "Oh it won't work."
I also get rather annoyed since it is just laziness on the part of hardware companies. MS releases test builds of Windows plenty early. That is how the companies I listed manage to have Windows 8 drivers out. There really isn't an excuse for not having support. They are just lazy about it
Some companies purposely don't do new drivers, to try and make people buy new hardware. HP is famous for that one.
Yeah, the ones who work on windows and windows software.
What I don't get is why they don't provide the same experience level of the Win7 desktop environment to desktop/laptop users.
Not sure what you mean. Just hit the desktop tile and you are back into Windows 7+.
Been running the RTM version for over a month on reasonably current hardware machines from multiple vendors, desktop, laptop, tablet/laptop hybrids. Zero instability, zero driver issues, everything works. You can bitch all you want about the metro UI, and the disconnected nature of dekstop to metro switching. Some or much of that bitching is completely and absolutely justified and I agree justified. But the OS is objectively better in a lot of other areas than Win7. If you don't like it, don't buy it, the market will make it's opinion known. But younger users more accustomed to iPhone or Android when exposed to Win8 next to some of it's competitiors in my experience have 100% unamimously thought that Win8 is "cool" and expressed a real interst in running it on at least touch enabled hardware. But inflating UI bitching into some larger issue with the OS is just immature trolling. Much like what we see every time a Linux distribution switches out the default GUI.
Care to give some big examples? Im currently at a loss as to why I would stick Win8 on my work laptop, which I use for testing, coding, documentation, virtualization.
If there are useful workflow / productivity improvements, Id love to know about em; so far all I got was "you need to relearn how you relate to your desktop" which isnt terribly appealing.
I've been testing Windows 8 for some while and I must say it's borderline awesome to use.
That's because you are a troll who created a brand new account exactly to write that comment.
I think the Start Menu in Windows 8 is especially hilarious. Microsoft redid the Start menu in Vista, and people complained. Then they ran some surveys and found people don't use the Start menu anymore.
So they took it out completely. Brilliant, isn't it?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Also the fact that Microsoft is working on their own tablet might indicate their level of caring about OEMs is starting to drop.
Fear is the mind killer.
They're idiots. People DO use the start menu, they just don't use it very often, but when they need it, they want it to work like they expect.
On my car, when I check the oil, it's really simple: there's a dipstick right in the front when I open the hood. Do I check the oil often? Certainly not. But when I do, I know how to do it, and it's simple; I don't want some car company coming up with some weird-ass procedure for checking the oil just because I don't do it every day.
The only major sub-system rewrite has been audio
I haven't been following very closely, but that's an interesting development. I'm into high performance audio, and noticed a night and day difference when I upgraded from XP to Vista. The new audio system in Vista (and present in 7) runs consistently well with far lower latency settings than previous versions of Windows.
The big changes in audio for Windows 8 look to be geared towards power savings.. Which sounds like a good thing, as long as it stays out of the way of high performance ASIO drivers.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
In the history of software, I can think of no major OS releases that hit the market without major issue, much less something as high-profile as a new Windows version. Not Windows, OSX, iOS, Android, Solaris, or pick-your-flavor of Linux. The larger your scale, the more beta-testers just don't cut it anymore. You can take Apple's approach and strictly control the hardware that your software can run on, but you can always fuck that up to. You always have to wait for the first round of updates (or in Apple's situation, a free carrying case for every user) and hope that fixes it.
I have used it on several, I'll be happy to list specs and give a review of each.
First up is a EEE E350 netbook, here? It is actually okay. Not great, but its okay, as with the bobcat dual core and a 12 inch screen you're not gonna run more than one app at a time and their hack boot (hybrid sleep) actually shaves about 20% off the boot time. Can't tell any difference on battery life, still around 5 hours watching videos or a little over 6 surfing, not bad but not really any different than what I was seeing on 7 as far as battery life.
Next up my test for older systems, a Pentium 4 3.6GHz with HT box I had sitting in the corner KVM'd into my shop monitor which is a 1600x900 20 inch...yuck. Oh the performance was okay, it again booted a little faster than Win 7 but the constant switching between metro and desktop sucked and the metro UI just doesn't work well on a large screen, especially once you go past around 12 programs installed. The whole thing quickly fills up to become this large multi-page mess.
Finally we have my personal system, an AMD 6 core on a 22 inch 1600x900 monitor...again with the yuck, I like to game on this as it has 8Gb of RAM and an HD4850 GPU and once i started loading up my games again metro became seriously messy, I'm the kind that don't allow more than a couple of icons on my desktop and having this huge shotgun blast of a start screen was irritating. Again the hybrid boot was a little faster but seeing as I only turn this system off when its storming doesn't really sway my opinion and the Metro apps just suck, no way to easily multitask and there was some I even had to use Task Manager to kill because they just didn't want to stop, really beta quality crap which considering this was RP didn't make me feel good about it.
Final verdict? the only one where it felt like the equal of Win 7 was on the netbook, which considering its roughly the same size as a large tablet shouldn't be surprising. I said it before and I'll say it again, Win 8 is a tablet and cell phone OS that has been shoehorned by MSFT onto the desktop to try to get people "used" to their tablet UI in the hopes people will buy it over Android and iPad. Will it work? I seriously doubt it, but thankfully Win 7 is supported until 2020 so we have plenty of time to kick back and see how Win 9 comes out. Hopefully MSFT will do as reviewers have suggested and just split metro off for tablets and leave Win 9 with a functional desktop UI instead of this mish mash.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I've been testing Windows 8 for some while and I must say it's borderline awesome to use.
I agree.
It's the best thing since Microsoft B.O.B.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Dell has had OS options for decades. They used to OEM a SCO as Dell Unix back before there was a Linux, there was OS/2 at the same time and Xenix before that. The question is does Dell want to transition end users in a massive way to Ubuntu.
The shills create a new account for each story and they tend to drop that account rather fast.
For proof, check the posting history of the person being accused of being a shill.
He has only posted in this story and that account will never be used again.
Also he posted the very minute that the story was available to post in even though that account is not a subscriber.
This is the common MO of shills on /. , new account, only posts in this one story, first post at the same time story was available to post in. You see that situation and you will know that that person is a shill.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
I believe it is a flaw in the Windows 8 power management schema, because of how the incident occurred. When I first installed Windows 8 I noticed shortly after that my monitor would go to sleep after 5 minutes regardless of what the power management settings, bios settings, or any other settings were set to. I posted to the Windows 8 forum, followed all the suggestions by the forum moderators, and none of them fixed the issue. A couple of days later my computer shut itself off out of no-where, which had never happened before with this box, but I figured that is Windows for ya. I powered it back on, and it shut itself right back off again. So, I opened the case up and went to check things out. When I checked to make sure the video card was seated properly it was so hot that it burned me. So, I unplugged the monitor from the video card, put a glove on that I keep close by for when I am soldering, and unseated the video card. Then I plugged the monitor in to my on-board card and powered my machine back up. After that I had no issues with anything including the monitor time-out issue. Oh and by the way. The ticket that was created about my issue is still open on the Windows 8 forum so, as far as I know this issue has not been fixed.
There are people in my workplace that refuse to use the start menu and instead get people with a clue to pre-fill their screens with icons. They then spend 30 seconds or so at a time trying to find the right icon on their desktop each time they go to start something.