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NZ Broke the Law Spying On Kim Dotcom, PM Apologizes

Mad Hamster writes "In the latest installment of the megaupload saga, an official study has determined that New Zealand's Government Communications and Security Bureau broke NZ law by spying on Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom. NZ Prime Minister John Key has apologised to Dotcom and all New Zealanders for this, saying they were entitled to be protected by the law but it had failed them. Link is to writeup in The Guardian." Lots of outlets are reporting this, based on TorrentFreak's report.

61 of 235 comments (clear)

  1. very simple lesson from this by mapkinase · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't do wrong, especially to bad people, since in the latter case you have to apologize to bad people, and it sucks.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    1. Re:very simple lesson from this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who are these "bad people" you write about?

    2. Re:very simple lesson from this by dmbasso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't do wrong, especially to bad people, since in the latter case you have to apologize to bad people, and it sucks.

      Only if you have honor. That doesn't apply to 99% of politicians.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    3. Re:very simple lesson from this by partyguerrilla · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pirate enablers.

    4. Re:very simple lesson from this by Mitreya · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't do wrong, especially to bad people, since in the latter case you have to apologize to bad people

      Cool - and next US can apologize for seizing his assets and we can forget about this little ugly incident?

      How about trying to compensate him for the damage? Who is lining up to do that?

      From the TFA:

      American authorities are appealing against a New Zealand court decision that Dotcom should be allowed to see the evidence on which the extradition hearing will be based.

      Ah, another proud day for America :(

    5. Re:very simple lesson from this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They didn't do wrong, they did illegal. And had to apologize. You or me do illegal, its jail-time and fines.

    6. Re:very simple lesson from this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No the lesson here is if you break the law you go to jail, if government breaks the law you get a half-hearted apology.

    7. Re:very simple lesson from this by Nitage · · Score: 4, Funny

      What, like people who sell eye-patches, parrots, and wooden legs without asking for ID?

    8. Re:very simple lesson from this by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you have to apologize, you ARE the "bad people."

    9. Re:very simple lesson from this by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 2

      *shakes fist* those accursed parrot peddlers! ID or not!

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    10. Re:very simple lesson from this by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm sure the apology makes him feel much better. He's probably celebrating right now.

      Weirdly enough the article seems to have skipped the bit about where the lawbreakers are being processed by the law along with the return of his property and some restitution for his losses. I'm sure it's happening though. I mean, why wouldn't it?

      --
      No sig today...
    11. Re:very simple lesson from this by geekanarchy · · Score: 5, Funny

      General Motors = Dry-by shooting enabler.
      ExxonMobil = Arson enabler.
      Louisville Slugger = Mugging enabler.
      Pacific Lumber Company = Mugging enabler enabler.
      Slashdot = Trolling enabler.

    12. Re:very simple lesson from this by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 2

      Godwin = Nazi enabler?

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    13. Re:very simple lesson from this by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So what about pirates like UMG, who sell music for direct profit without the permission of the rights holders, and without adequate accounting controls to even give a proper statement of sales and royalties? If Kim Dotcom can have commandos break down his front door, why aren't you demanding the immediate arrest of the CEO, CFO, CIO and the board of directors of UMg?

      And why aren't you demanding an immediate deep forensic audit by the IRS of every Hollywood film made over the last thirty years?

      Double standards much?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    14. Re:very simple lesson from this by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or it could be that this mistake was entirely on the side of the NZ government and has exactly jack shit to do with the US's case against Dotcom, as the Ars Technica article states:

      Key told reporters he did not expect the illegal GCSB surveillance to affect the fight over extraditing Dotcom to the United States, because none of the evidence the United States planned to use against Dotcom in those proceedings were derived from GCSB surveillance.

      So, no, thats not going to happen because of this. The US's case may be wrong/illegal for other reasons, but saying they should drop it because the NZ government made a mistake is... rather ridiculous.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    15. Re:very simple lesson from this by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      General Motors = Dry-by shooting enabler. ExxonMobil = Arson enabler. Louisville Slugger = Mugging enabler. Pacific Lumber Company = Mugging enabler enabler. Slashdot = Trolling enabler.

      Any company that sells food = terrorism enabler

    16. Re:very simple lesson from this by Sprouticus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How do we know none of the evidence was gathered in the raid.

      THEY WONT LET HIM SEE IT....

      Are you saying we need to rust the NZ government on their word? Seriously. .I mean they are not as bad as the US government, but that's not saying much.

    17. Re:very simple lesson from this by Goaway · · Score: 2

      How about people who make big money off the work of others without giving them a penny?

      How about people who make big money off insider trading?

    18. Re:very simple lesson from this by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      No the lesson here is if you're so much as suspected of breaking the law you go to jail, if government breaks the law you get a half-hearted apology.

      FTFY.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    19. Re:very simple lesson from this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      General Motors = Dry-by shooting enabler.

      I will not apologize for my armed struggle against moisture.

    20. Re:very simple lesson from this by sjames · · Score: 2

      Let's check the score. The spying before the raid were ruled illegal and the search warrant for the raid itself was declared illegal. If they thought they had enough without it, why did they bother with the raid?

    21. Re:very simple lesson from this by T+Murphy · · Score: 2

      Double standards much?

      How did you go from the implied "Kim Dotcom is a bad person" to "I wholly endorse the use of an armed assault team breaking into his place, disregarding laws, and believe all media companies are the best thing ever"? Oh, right, you're just jumping to conclusions to make the /. mods pile on with "+1 agree".

      The original comment even implied that the assault on Dotcom's house was a bad thing, and had nothing to do with media companies. I'll agree Dotcom isn't as bad as the media companies, but then again those companies would make anyone look like a saint in comparison.

      I think the presidential race is getting to you, saying what you want to say whether it's an appropriate response or not.

    22. Re:very simple lesson from this by jc42 · · Score: 2

      Do you know how hard it is to get parrot shit out of clothes????

      Yeah; it's quite easy. ;-)

      Due to my wife's allergies to most furry critters (luckily not including me), we've long had pet birds, mostly various sorts of parrots. The little darlings are always landing on our shoulders and leaving their calling cards. If we notice right away, we pick it off with a bit of tissue paper, which most bird owners have strategically scattered around their house. If we don't notice, and it dries, a quick brushing with a damp sponge usually removes all signs it was there. No need for detergent (though I'd still advise it in washing, to remove the human sweat and other contaminants).

      Of course, this sorta ruins the joke, which I LOL'd at. Bird owners are always looking around for good bird-shit jokes. Some time back, I was playing music at an event, with a pick-up band. Suddenly one of the musicians, a fiddler that I didn't know, said "Hey, I see you have a cockatiel, too!" She could even identify the species that left the little marking. We both laughed, and went back to playing music.

      The explanation is straightforward. We mammals have digestive systems that try to extract maximum nutrition from our food, because to our ancestors, that was cheaper than going out and hunting for food more often. This leads to a long process that involves many bacteria, in a low-oxygen environment, and the result is familiar to us all. But birds have a strong need to conserve weight. So their digestive systems are short and fast, extracting the most digestible stuff for flight fuel, and quickly reaching the point that it takes more energy to fly the food around than it contains. At that point, typically only a few hours after eating, the bird dumps the rest, which still contains lots of nutrients (and is very good plant food), but hasn't had time for bacteria to use up the oxygen and turn it into a stinky mess.

      If bird droppings were like our output, we probably wouldn't have them at pets. But bird shit is fairly innocuous stuff that's highly water soluble, and birds tend to drop most of it beneath only a few favorite perches, so it's easy to clean up after them.

      OTOH, there's that Far Side cartoon of a bird's view of the world, looking down at a city street scene in which everything has a bullseye painted on its top.

      [Yeah, I know; facts, facts, facts, ... boring. ;-]

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  2. Whats this?! by PPalmgren · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A politician and government owning their mistake? Color me impressed.

    1. Re:Whats this?! by aeortiz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Happy to oblige! What's the RGB code for impressed?

    2. Re:Whats this?! by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      It appears to be a light blue. .impressed
      {
          color: #impressed
      }

      <span class="impressed">I'm light blue</span>

    3. Re:Whats this?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless there is accountability then an apology is simply words. You need both to right this type of wrong.

    4. Re:Whats this?! by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Owning their "mistake"? No. It's like Janet Reno "taking responsibility" for the deaths at Waco.

      Let me explain this. I'll do it slowly so everybody can follow along.

      If someone "broke the law" that makes them a _______? The correct answer is "criminal". By definition.

      What do we do to criminals? Well, if only we had a system that would try them for their crime and determine an appropriate punishment.

      Oh, wait, we do. It's called a "court" and the punishment is a "prison".

      Unless someone in the government is charged with the crimes and subsequently convicted, the "apology" is meaningless. A governmental official breaking the law (even if "under orders") is far more serious than some guy smoking pot in his house. So let's treat it as such.

    5. Re:Whats this?! by wile_e_wonka · · Score: 2

      What mistake? A mistake is accidental. My understanding is that this spying was not mistaken, accidental spying. "Oh, we meant to spy on your neighbor, the druglord, and accidentally came upon this...."

      This was not a mistake. Someone made a decision to do something in violation of the law, and then carried out acts in violation of the law. "To catch a thief" is not sufficient justification in my mind for violation of the law by government officials.

    6. Re:Whats this?! by Reverand+Dave · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This. Why are people so fucking pleased with an apology? If there is a particularly bad pothole in the road, I want an apology and to have it fixed. If a civil authority fails to follow the same laws it imposes on it's populace, heads should roll and jail sentences should be handed out.

      --
      I got here through a series of tubes
    7. Re:Whats this?! by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      No, we also take mistakes into account.

      If you mistakenly pick up the wrong bag you will usually be able to explain the error and not get arrested and charged with theft. Heck you can shoot someone and if the police believe your story that the guy was attacking you won't get arrested or charged with that either (at least until it becomes a major national news story).

      And of course you only get hit with whatever the law states is the penalty. Often enough such restrictions on government actions don't bother having penalties.

    8. Re:Whats this?! by The+Moof · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, we also take mistakes into account.

      Yea, we do to an extent. But this wasn't a case of "oops, we accidentally spied on you," this was a case of "we intentionally spied on you, and it turns out that was illegal."

      Ignorance of the law doesn't make you exempt from the punishment for your crime.

    9. Re:Whats this?! by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ignorance of the law doesn't make you exempt from the punishment for your crime.

      No, but based on the data, direct involvement in writing the laws does.

  3. Still not over. by Infernal+Device · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Awesome. Thanks.

    Now, how about handing out some punishments to the people responsible, so they don't try this sort of bullshit again?

    --
    "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    1. Re:Still not over. by davegravy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whoa Whoa WHOA!

      That's not the kind apology the PM was offering. It was more a "sorry about your luck" kind of apology, not the "this is broken and needs to be fixed" variety.

    2. Re:Still not over. by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or at least is was until we started calling whistles blowers enemy of the state (like one Julian Assange) now people that try to keep the government honest are to be executed with extreme prejudiced.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    3. Re:Still not over. by Infernal+Device · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's also your job to punish failure and merely "not re-electing" them is a pretty weak gesture, honestly.

      These people ignored the law, destroyed the man's business, and handed the assets over to a foreign government who will never return them. How about I kick in your door in the middle of the night, steal all your assets and hand them over to the Chinese government and say it's punishment for all the slave labor that goes into producing half the goods you and your family use to survive?

      Sorry, but I think it's time some people were very publicly named, shamed and imprisoned for not only their failure to follow the law, but the misinterpretation of it in the first place.

      Public service is a privilege and the failure to properly exercise that privilege should, by definition, come with a higher punishment than standard crimes.

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    4. Re:Still not over. by LVSlushdat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That term "Enemy Of The State" gives me the creeps.. I'm old enough to remember clearly the old USSR and all of the behavior that went on in that country during that time. That term, enemy of the state, was used a LOT back then.. When I hear *my* country using it, I become very upset. Of course, the US government could care less what one 62 year old Vietnam vet thinks.. Clearly it seems the USA is well on its way down the road to being a replay of the old USSR, without the Russian language..

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
  4. Hollow sentiment by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Come back when you've prosecuted those guilty of breaking the law during this process, all the way up to your own staff. I'd also say that he should be compensated for losses, but it would be paid with tax payer money, and ultimately it's not the tax payers who threw him to the wolves.

    FWIW, Kim Dotcom is a scheister with a history of extremely shady business dealings, but even criminals deserve justice.

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    1. Re:Hollow sentiment by Nyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...

      FWIW, Kim Dotcom is a scheister with a history of extremely shady business dealings, but even criminals deserve justice.

      Yep, well, it seems to me if he was such a bad character, then they wouldn't need to break laws and trample his rights bring him to justice.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    2. Re:Hollow sentiment by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Kim Dotcom is a scheister with a history of extremely shady business dealings

      Citation needed.

      Kim Schmitz' criminal history with all of the citations you need.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:Hollow sentiment by schwit1 · · Score: 2

      No doubt.

      Somebody at the top needs to go to jail for a long time, and anybody who knew about it and didn't try to stop it should be fired and heavily fined.

      For John Key to do otherwise is to tacitly approve it and only be upset that they got caught.

      NB
      In the USA these criminal actions would warrant promotions.

    4. Re:Hollow sentiment by X.25 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Kim Schmitz' criminal history with all of the citations you need.

      And?

      He did stupid things when he was younger. Real shocker.

      He has been living a decent life for a long time, he has settled down and became a real family man, and you are still going to justify shit done to him now because of things he has done 10+ years ago (and was held responsible for it and was punished)?

      He is turning up to be the most honest of the whole bunch involved in this circus.

    5. Re:Hollow sentiment by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Please notice also the apparent fact that "...police clearly knew of Dotcom’s residency status when they compiled a planning document known as the 'Blue Folder' in which help from the anti-terrorist Special Tactics Group was requested." (emphasis mine)

      If that's true, they apparently didn't just break the law intentionally, but also got the "Anti-terrorist Special Tactics Group" involved. Because we all know that running a business which might enable people to commit copyright infringement is terrorism.

    6. Re:Hollow sentiment by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      An asshat who takes advantage of people still deserves the protection of law [snip].

      FTFY. I know this is hard to get into some people's brains but everybody is under the protection of law, including people who break it.

    7. Re:Hollow sentiment by misexistentialist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed, like prostitution, which is a completely legitimate business forced to work around illegitimate laws. Your "moral authorities" all have histories that can't be examined too closely and bank accounts stuffed with cash, but unlike Dotcom they make the lives of the people worse rather than better. Kopimism is the one true faith.

  5. Kudos! by zixxt · · Score: 2

    Kudos and well done John Key you have earned my respect, New Zealand sounds like a awesome place.

    Here in America we are still waiting for Obama to apologize for murdering American citizens, and putting us in concentration camps.

    --
    ---- GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
  6. Apology means nothing, words are cheap. by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This report shows that officials broke the law. People that break the law should be investigated, if they did it willfully or worse, for profit, then they should go to jail.

    Fairly sure that won't happen.

    Hope Kim DotCom has the balls to sue the hell out of the New Zealand government, basically they are now responsible for disrupting his business and the service to millions of users with no cause. No point in sueing the US, Americans have no honor but if the New Zealand government has to cough up several hundred millions, other governments might grow a backbone. Human rights matter little but no politician like to be held accountable for such a visible waste of tax payers money. HAHA, yeah, I know.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Apology means nothing, words are cheap. by tbird81 · · Score: 2

      Criminal enterprise? What for? For having a site you can upload things to?

  7. Oh! "We're Very Sorry"?! by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Whoopsie, we illegally destroyed your multi-million dollar company and damaged the brand to the point that even if we gave you all your servers back your user base will never recover to what it was! Our bad!

    Talk is cheap. Sending the people who actually broke the law to jail and paying Kim for lost revenue would be a step in the right direction. Even then, his company has been irreparably damaged by these actions.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Oh! "We're Very Sorry"?! by cpghost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even then, his company has been irreparably damaged by these actions.

      Which was precisely the point of the drill, wasn't it? Legalities matter little to those in power: results do.

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    2. Re:Oh! "We're Very Sorry"?! by Rogerborg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What "lost revenue"? Is that like when media companies "lose revenue" to piracy because someone else's actions result in them getting less money than they think they deserve?

      That argument cuts both ways. Since "Dotcom" was - let's be honest - growing rich from ripping off the MPAA et al, I find it hard to sympathise with his predicament.

      No, that doesn't mean I'm pro MPAA - we're just watching a struggle between an engorged leech and the bloated tick that fastened onto it.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    3. Re:Oh! "We're Very Sorry"?! by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 2

      Is that like when media companies "lose revenue" to piracy because someone else's actions result in them getting less money than they think they deserve?

      That's a poor analogy between the two. A better one would be if pirates, instead of copying music/movies, literally kidnapped all the actors/performers.

      --
      Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
  8. Good, now prosecute the people responsible by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Now the PM needs to follow up by tasking their equivalent of the US Attorney General to investigate and prosecute. If that equivalent is implicated, the PM needs to appoint a special prosecutor to carry out the investigation and file charges where appropriate. As a conservative American, I gladly include our representatives to New Zealand in that mix if legally possible and they conspired to break the laws (meaning were briefed and involved in the strategy for taking down Dotcom). If the roles were reversed, I'd want to see New Zealand's people taken away in dark SUVs by G-Men on charge of violating civil liberties under color of authority (a felony in the US).

  9. AMAZINGLY stupid on the US/NZ government... by nweaver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This business is amazingly stupid on the part of the US and New Zealand governments. MegaUpload really was a criminal enterprise: their entire business model was facilitated on fake takedowns, incentives for copyright violations, and other games. That it is gone is good riddance.

    But they didn't need to create a massive violation of the law like this and create a huge circus about it: They had enough evidence to get plenty of legal wiretaps. They didn't need to come in with the SWAT team. If they played it by the book, Mr Dotcom would probably already have been extradited to the US.

    But instead it is horribly misplayed, and as a result there is a non-trivial chance that Dotcom will slip free with his millions intact.

    This is why law enforcement needs to actually follow the law.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
  10. I'm fond of Jacobin's article on the topic by royallthefourth · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Megaupload's Kim Dotcom, a willfully tacky fat guy with a baby face and a vanity license plate that says "guilty," has styled himself as a kind of comic villain, a composite of everything people love to hate. He effectively serves as empire's face of piracy: an overweight nouveau-riche wannabe hacker who finally gets his comeuppance through the macho justice of Uncle Sam. It's so easy to hate Kim Dotcom that you almost forget that the US convinced the New Zealand government to send in an assault brigade, bereft of a valid warrant but outfitted with automatic weapons and helicopters, to arrest a Finnish citizen at the demand of Hollywood studios. If Kim Dotcom didn't exist, the FBI, with the help of the MPAA, would have invented him."

    http://jacobinmag.com/2012/08/gimme-the-loot/

  11. NZ: Crime and Punishment by ljaszcza · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, The next time I break the law, I will issue a sincere apology. This apparently makes everything all right and obviates the need for punishment, prosecution, or any such things. Or, are politicians simply a different class of people with different rules and consequences than the rest of us? Orwell said: All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. Oh yeah.

  12. Wrong, the MPAA hurt themselves badly by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Kim Dotcom is unlikely to even have to go to court with this many screw ups, let alone do any time.

    And he already has backing for a new megaupload, this time better setup to not be so easily taken down. And you got to be really stupid as a foreign prosecutor to go after this guy a second time when the first time was such a disaster.

    Kim Dotcom is back, with more resources, more experience and now untouchable.

    I doubt this is what the content mafia wanted.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  13. Law enforcement in NZ by klui · · Score: 2

    So if you break the law in NZ, all you need to do is apologize?

  14. Re:burning sensation... by zlives · · Score: 2, Funny

    "I will not apologize for my palmed struggle against moisturizer."
    FTFY

  15. Equality before the law by LoyalOpposition · · Score: 2

    So, since the Government Communications and Security Bureau broke the law, are they going to go in with a swat team, take all of their computers, and shut them down for six months?

    ~Loyal

    --
    I aim to misbehave.