Valve Blog Announces Dates For Steam Linux External Beta

An anonymous reader writes "In the third post to the new Valve Linux Blog, the Linux team has announced that starting next week they will begin their internal beta, with an external beta of 1000 users to begin mid 'some time in October.' There will be an external beta sign up page made available 'soon' according to the blog."

Comments

I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[pecosdave]

but as someone who ditched Windows back when Win2K was still new I'm not really up on it.

Is it closer to an iTunes like store, an Apt like installer, or is it some sort virtual machine running a standardized program, like Flash, Java, or a console emulator?

Also - how does it compare to something like the Ubuntu Software Center I used to install Torch Light and the rest of the recent Humble Bundle stuff.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[bersl2]

More like iTunes, plus the usual social additions expected of gaming communities (IM, chat, voice, achievements, etc.).

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like an itunes store/software center, but for games. You can talk with your friends, even if you're both in games (shift+tab iirc will bring up an overlay in any game). Also they're porting the source engine (iiuc), so we'll (probably) have games like L4D2 and maybe even Half Life 2. More info on their blog: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[pecosdave]

So obviously if there's a background chat some component of Steam is still running after the game is started, so it's less like Apt. I'll look at the source engine thing later, I'm at work now, they block all links to game companies, I'm half surprised games.slashdot.org isn't blocked just for the URL.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Think iTunes, though specific to games. It's more of an all-encompassing service than a single tool like Apt. Compared to the USC I'd say it's way more polished, though it's technically a closed platform. If you're familiar with game consoles, think that except on PC, less restrictive on developers, and led by a company that has some semblance of knowledge regarding what the customer wants. Regarding the platform the games run on, it depends on the games. Most games are native, naturally, but there are some Java, some Flash, and some .NET as well. It's really up to the developer.

Though it's not just a distribution channel:

-Automatic game updates (unprompted, unlike apt, take that how you will)
-Cloud services for games that make use of them (saved games, achievements, stats, etc.)
-Communication/Social tool: you can send text chats to other players on your friends list and there are various other community features

Some other tidbits:

-Rumor is, they're going to soon expand to non-game applications
-They're trying out a new community-driven greenlighting system for games
-They have LOTS of sales with massive discounts as well as free weekends
-Not that it applies to you necessarily, but if you buy a game on one platform, you own it on every platform it's available on
-I worry about the day when Valve goes under and all my games go with them, though that scenario looks less and less likely
-Steam is often cited both as a giant ball of DRM and as DRM done right, so... there's that

Someone has kindly made a larger version of my post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[crafty.munchkin]

iTunes wishes it was as good as Steam!!! This should be awesome, it'll be good to have some L4D2 games with the guys at work on our lunch break. We're running a mix of linux and mac systems here, so everyone should be able to play :)

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[webmistressrachel]

Slashdot is miraculously blessed by IT departments. In one of the offices I work at, their connection is so limited it's untrue - even stuff like the Community Recycling Network (crn.org.uk) is blocked, and the block page says "Category: None" so it may even be a whitelist.

Yet all the slashdot subdomains and the main one are completely unfiltered - along with, suspiciously enough, things like The Register and xkcd. So it's geeks policing geeks I guess. I get a free pass!

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Guspaz]

It is blocked at my workplace (because it has "games" in the hostname), but any games.slashdot.org slashdot can also be accessed from slashdot.org.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[AvitarX]

In my very limited use, it's closest to software center with a non apt back-end (so software center+aptish type system).

It tracks purchases, allow downloads to multiple computers of purchases (like software center or iTunes), tracks the installs (I'm curious weather the Linux version will include it's own tracking, or use it's own installer/remover, commercial software appears to be 50/50 on that in generall).

It also has some social aspects, much like Xbox Live.

I should include that I really mean dpkg for most uses of apt (I don't think the Software center you're referring to uses apt in any way, but I could be wrong, I certainly have not used "apt" for any commercial software, but was referring to .deb files).

On Windows it felt like "Yay, there's something resembling apt for games" when I first used it. I've always felt for almost all of my work that package management (Yast, yum, apt) more than made up for inferior/incompatible software (Yast, Gimp) almost any time there was an equivelentish option. It's too bad there's no document/deposition presentation software that's OSS, or I wouldn't need Windows at all.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[NemosomeN]

The simplest way to explain Steam is that it is DRM done right. If you pirate the game, you get the game for free. But, you lose auto updates, chat client, steam trading, access to servers with anti-cheat features, etc.

It deters piracy by adding value to legally purchased games.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam is a bit like a big repository of games with social features bolted on. The nice part about the social features which I hope they carry over to Linux as well, if you add non-Steam games to the client's game library (effectively using it as a launcher), the in-game overlap might work (it's not compatible with all games, but I've never seen it crash a game when it doesn't work).

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[hobarrera]

Desure is an excelent comparison - though without the bonus DRM.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between steam and apt? Well, I can't apt-get twink-that-likes-bears :)

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

*Desura, that is.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Bureaucromancer]

Think Ubuntu Software Center, combined with a launcher and some DRM. Software doesn't strictly have to be launched from the Steam client, but the client does need to be running for stuff purchased through it to run (not always online DRM, but definitely DRM, albeit about as unobtrusive as it can get). Software gets installed into Steam's directory, but with it's own file structure, and I'd guess what will happen is that there will be a recreation of the usual Linux directory structure inside the Steam folder. Of course this may also change drastically if they go crazy and do something like roll a WINE implementation into that version of the client, but I have my doubts that's happening.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Jartan]

DRM is completely the choice of the publisher of the game being sold. Steam is not required for all applications to run.

Plus there's also an extensive "overlay" that can be brought up inside games. Sort of like dashboards on consoles (but much better since it's a PC).

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[DarkTempes]

Think of a webkit-based instant messaging client and app store mixed together. It keeps your games up-to-date, has really good sale prices, and makes it stupidly easy to play games with friends.

The downside is that there is DRM (many games have to be launched through steam to play them) and it's kind of a pain to play games when offline.
In the past Valve has said that if they were to ever dissolve then they'll release a DRM removal tool.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Bureaucromancer]

Strictly yes, but Steam is pretty clearly a DRM system in itself, or just bloody restrictive. Official Steam DRM or no you can't just go in and run the .exe steam installs, nor can you run it without being logged in or successfully turning on offline mode. Mind it or not this is a pretty big difference from Ubuntu Software Center, and one of the core things that differentiate Steam from being purely a package management system.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[guises]

There are certainly people who see value in Steam's added services, but it is most certainly not "DRM done right." Every game purchased through Steam requires online activation, every single one. A stark contrast to the iTunes comparison - even when iTunes was DRMing their media, an internet connection was never required.

I'm not sure what "DRM done right" would be, DRM is after all a limitation on what you can do with your purchased media. For me however, any form of DRM that requires me to ask permission before I can read or watch or play with my stuff, that will never fall into the "acceptable DRM" category.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

The simplest way to explain Steam is that it is DRM done right.

Speaking as somebody who recently lived in a hotel with shitty wifi for 6 months, I have to chuckle at that statement. It stopped being "DRM done right" when it decided it wouldn't let me play my single-player game while the wifi was down.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with most of your post, especially the point about it being a deterrent to piracy, but really it's not 'right' it's just courteously applied lube.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[glittermage]

Steam doesn't require online access to play games once they've been downloaded. The game might have had an additional DRM besides Valve. The Steam only DRM games I have tried without Internet access work fine (it seems confused at first that Internet isn't available).

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[wolrahnaes]

There was a long-standing bug in Steam which made offline mode unreliable for anyone who shuts their computer down regularly.

When you'd shut down Windows, Steam would apparently just sit around and fail to heed the warnings the OS gave it until it would be forced to close. This made it not properly save the offline mode token, so if the next time you launched the client was without an internet connection, you were SOL.

If you closed Steam before shutting down it worked fine, but since this wasn't common knowledge and you don't usually plan internet outages at the consumer level as far as an average user cares it didn't work.

The actual cause of the bug was identified publicly by a user a few months ago and shortly followed by a Steam client update which resolved the problem. At this point offline mode works exactly as expected.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Steam doesn't require online access to play games once they've been downloaded.

Yes, it does. It re-authenticates every couple of weeks or so. Trust me, I gnashed my teeth quite a bit during that hotel stay.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Funnily enough you also need an internet connection to actually download the game through Steam. Since a game is generally installed as soon as it's downloaded, what's the frikkin problem again?
Ok their Offline mode could be improved to make it a bit smoother but your argument sounds like a tantrum over nothing. The only point where it holds up if you buy the game in a store and want to install it though it requires Steam, but how frequently do people actually buy PC games in stores these days?

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Spad]

Every game purchased through Steam requires online activation, every single one

You mean the online store, that you're using, while online, to purchase games, online, requires you to be online to install your game, that you download while online? Say it ain't so.

The Steam DRM is optional, btw, entirely up to the publisher, which is why a lot of older games don't have it and can be run without Steam once they're installed.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[nschubach]

Well, you technically could use the install hyperlink: steam://install/[some game id] but you'd need to know that ID and have a browser set up to know what to do with it.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[nschubach]

Steam recently added the ability to have multiple folder locations for the game installs (maybe it's because I'm opted in for beta clients if you don't see it under settings) so you can specify what hard drive or folder you'd like to install your library of games to.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

"You mean the online store, that you're using, while online, to purchase games, online, requires you to be online to install your game, that you download while online? Say it ain't so."

No... i mean the offline game i bought offline at a brick & mortar store that requires you to be online to play a single player game.

Its bullshit when microsoft does it, its bullshit when ubisoft does it, its bullshit when rockstar does it... and yes its even bullshit when valve does it.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[guises]

More than that, it's a tired argument to make in the first place, yet it keeps popping up. Is the GP really claiming that he can't tell the difference between a Steam game that he can only install through Steam, only while online, and only if he has permission vs. a DRM free game that he buys online, for which he has the installation files and can install and play whenever and however he sees fit? Of course not. There's some kind of willful ignorance going on here.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[ciderbrew]

When I did buy games I bought store games. I like owning the media. It's mine to do with as I please. Also Steam downloads are not price competitive (in the UK). Often they cost more than the store. I guess they price lock to be able to let store make a profit.
I downloaded the batman AC demo and loved it. It didn't use games for windows. I thought all DRM was done by steam. In a moment of weakness I bought the full version (costing more than the store) expecting to be able to play it in 10/15mins as I have a 70mb+ connection. It took ages to download. I could have gone to the store and back in that time. So I saved no money and the full version installs MS DRM for games. :(
Luckily the game was worth it. But I feel dirty when I see the DRM on my machine.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Funnily enough you also need an internet connection to actually download the game through Steam. Since a game is generally installed as soon as it's downloaded, what's the frikkin problem again?

I bought "Total War: Shogun 2" on CD (or DVD, whatever). I cannot play it anymore, since I've lost my Steam password.

OK, it's my own fault for losing my password (and typing in random nonsense for the recovery question), but I now have a useless CD.

Any game publisher which uses Steam does not get money from me.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Funnily enough you also need an internet connection to actually download the game through Steam. Since a game is generally installed as soon as it's downloaded, what's the frikkin problem again?

I bought "Total War: Shogun 2" on CD (or DVD, whatever). I cannot play it anymore, since I've lost my Steam password.

OK, it's my own fault for losing my password (and typing in random nonsense for the recovery question), but I now have a useless CD.

Any game publisher which uses Steam does not get money from me.

Forgot to mention: I clicked in the Steam interface "remember my password" - that is why I forgot it, I did not need it for months.

Then there was an update of Steam and it suddenly did not remember my password anymore.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[cbhacking]

It also prevents you from playing if somebody else is using your account, or if your Steam client can't authenticate (although if creds are stored locally, offline mode will work for up to a month). It prevents you from returning or reselling the game or even gifting the game (once you've installed it, it's tied to your account forever). Games require that the Steam client be running, which imposes a non-trivial RAM and CPU overhead (not huge, but enough to notice on my slightly aging gaming box).

DRM done right is the lack of DRM, or perhaps at worst a subscription service where you explicitly don't own anything and instead pay (a reasonable rate) for ongoing access.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a trade off. When you install Steam on a new computer, all your games are listed, and you can simply click to download and install any of your games. No hunting for the disc! No worrying about downloading the latest patches from a publisher that may not even be around anymore!

This is a trade I'm willing to make. And Valve is making enough money that I'm willing to bet that they will be around for a long time.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[atomicxblue]

It's good that they are thinking of the future like that. My brother in law buys all his games from the Playstation Store directly from his PS3 and I asked him what he's going to do if they ever shut that down. I can still pull out my Dreamcast and not rely on a Sega server to play games.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[atomicxblue]

Never forget the addictive value of achievements...

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[atomicxblue]

Yes, Steam can be set to run in Offline Mode once your game is downloaded and installed. That's also a useful feature if you just want to play a single person game on an internet connection with bandwidth caps.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[somersault]

I hate having to store the media, and especially to go through a set of discs when setting up a new machine. On Steam you just click the games you want to install and away it goes. It's far superior to the crap we had to go through in the "olden days" IMO. If you have a slow net connection you can also backup and import from your old computer. That's still a little annoying, but it does mean only one transfer rather than again going through all your disks.

When the developers add extra layers of DRM on top of Steam it pisses me off too. I don't see the point in it..

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[atomicxblue]

I want to install that too. lol

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

If it requires you to be online to play the game at all, then it's the fault of the developer, not Steam.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Strictly yes, but Steam is pretty clearly a DRM system in itself, or just bloody restrictive. Official Steam DRM or no you can't just go in and run the .exe steam installs

As the GP mentioned, yes you can, depending on the game's developer. See: ARMA II

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[damnbunni]

Bullcrap.

Just now I wanted to play some Darksiders II, so I launch Steam.

After sitting at 'Connecting to Steam account' for a while, I get another window that says 'Could not connect to Steam network. This could be due to a problem with your internet connection, or with the Steam network.'

It does not go into offline mode.

It won't let me play my game.

THANKS, STEAM.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[guises]

That's fine. If you feel that the service from Steam is worth what you're giving up then that's your choice (although I get the same service from Good Old Games). It's when people push the idea that you're not giving up something when you go with Steam that I get annoyed.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[citizenr]

Its iTunes for borrowing software. You pay them believing you are buying something, but deep down in the eula lies a nice "licensed to use" line.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[ciderbrew]

I hate having to store the media, and especially to go through a set of discs when setting up a new machine. I agree with that part.
But I have a big box of games that I like to go back to when I upgrade my machine (take a bit of effort to get the old ones working - I enjoy that too?).
I still live the "olden days" as some of those games are still really good.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[somersault]

Well I got my first PC in 1998, and a lot of the PC games I loved back then are available on Steam anyway - Half-Life and Deus Ex being the main ones. Before that it was Amiga and Playstation games. I can get the Amiga ROMs online so that's pretty easy too, though still not quite as convenient as Steam in all cases :)

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[bloodhawk]

I bought civilization in a box at my local game retailer, I had to go online and activate to play OFFLINE. Not only that but not that long ago the piece of shit called steam decided to change the format of locally stored games, It gave you no choice, I could either choose not to play civilization or wait 2 hours while it converted my perfectly woring single player game. Steam is many things, but "DRM done right" is certainly not one of them.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[CnlPepper]

If you have a cd and a serial, they can reconnect you to your account. You have hard proof of ownership which they will use to restore your account if you ask.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[interkin3tic]

Anyone else find it a little odd that asking what steam is can be modded "+5 informative?"

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[laffer1]

I'm baffled by this part " even when iTunes was DRMing their media". You do realize that most content on iTunes is still DRM'd. Just because iTunes plus and iTunes Match fixed most of the music, doesn't mean that video, apps and books are DRM free.

As for Steam, it entirely depends on the publisher how bad the DRM is. The upside is that I can install steam on my PC and Mac and play games I bought originally for Windows on my Mac and vice versa. It's a great way to test performance differences between the machines. It's also great for strategy games that I don't care about performance. First person shooters still suck on the Mac and you have to buy a third party mouse with real right click rather than that touch BS on the mighty mouse. Heaven forbid you have to press the right and left mouse buttons at the same time in a FPS.

Also, you can add links to games you've locally installed on the computer to steam just like you can add music you ripped yourself to iTunes.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[gman003]

When you're BUYING a game online and DOWNLOADING a game online, having to ACTIVATE the game online is not an impossible burden.

Online activation, for any game using only Steam as DRM (many games use some other DRM as well, and this is noted on the store page), is necessary only one time after updating. Download a game, run it once, then permanently set Steam into offline mode. It will never try to authenticate again. It will also not automatically update, chat will be disabled, and last time I tried the server browser wouldn't work for non-LAN servers. But it will work for LAN games, and any achievements you get will be queued up for upload as soon as you go back online.

(And also, if you're exceptionally paranoid, there's a crack that basically runs a Steam authentication server that authorizes everything. Right now, the only reason to use it is piracy, but I find it comforting to know that, if Valve fails and Steam shuts down, I can still access all the games I have downloaded.

PS: I challenge you to find retail games that don't have similar requirements. You'd be surprised how hard this is.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[rwise2112]

I've never had this problem. It's always asked me if I want to go to offline mode when there's no connection.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[damnbunni]

Yeah, well, that's the theory.

If Steam can see an internet connection but can't get to the Steam servers, it won't go into offline mode. It'll try and fail to connect, and roll over and die.

If there's no connection to the internet -at all- it'll -usually-, but not always, ask me if I want offline mode.

What the damned thing needs is a command line 'start in offline mode' switch. Or a shortcut for it. Or something.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[KingMotley]

Depends on the game, and the publisher. I can run Company of Heroes directly without having to go through steam if I wanted to.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[geekoid]

"often they cost more than the store"
seriously? Most games I buy on steam are a couple of month old, and half the price then the store. When three is a game I want to play on release, it's usually the same price as the store..sometime a little cheaper.

Here in the US, anyways.

"But I feel dirty when I see the DRM on my machine."
as opposed to all the other DRM that is already on your machine?

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[guises]

I'm baffled by this part " even when iTunes was DRMing their media". You do realize that most content on iTunes is still DRM'd. Just because iTunes plus and iTunes Match fixed most of the music, doesn't mean that video, apps and books are DRM free.

My mistake. I think of iTunes as a music store, I guess that's not really true any more.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[geekoid]

You aren't giving up anything. DRM games come with DRM; regardless of the delivery. IT's no different. well A little different in the Steam isn't as intrusive, and the games can be played without a connection, unlike many off the shelf games.

Do you even remember pre-steam DRM schemes?

Don't like DRM? take it up with the publisher.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[geekoid]

Are you stupid, or just a liar?
And I speak was someone who has played steam games where the is no internet connect.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

The publishers choose what DRM to put on the games. They can chose to make it use Steam's DRM, their own DRM, or no DRM at all. This is not Steam's fault, it is the publisher of the game's fault.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[guises]

PS: I challenge you to find retail games that don't have similar requirements. You'd be surprised how hard this is.

I would not be surprised, I am very familiar with how difficult that is. I get virtually everything from Good Old Games and the Humble Indie Bundle these days, but for the record here are a few good retail games that are DRM free (and somewhat recent):

Prince of Persia (the newer reboot)
Trine
Defense Grid
Rayman Origins

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, that's a fact, no a theory. IT's also a fact that it works fine for me.

Anyways, there is this great thing called the internet? someone like you can think of it as a series of tubes. Doesn't matter you wont get it. Anyways on the internet you can find companies business website. Someone like you can think of it as a 'magical store front in you computer box'.

This internet has lots of stuff. A huge amount of stuff. For you simple mind, you can think of it as 'more then 3'.
In order to find one of those websites you can use something called Google at Google.com. yeah, I know is seems like you're being bewitched to go to a web site to find a web site.
Anyhow, you can search for problems with your computer and find fixes! it's amazing. In your case it isn't so much a fix as it is finding out how to properly so something instead of pounding you meat hooks on the 'letter making device' in front of your computer TV thing.

You know what? That sounds to complicated and it might overwhelm your IQ point. You are going to see some text after this. Take the mouse..no not Algernon,. the plastic device next to your letter making device. Use it to move the arrow on your computer TV and then press down on the button. I say the button, becasue I'm sure some like you has an Apple mouse with a button. More then one being confusing black magic.
Click here

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[damnbunni]

Please haul your sarcasm out of your butt and actually read the link there

The one you told me to.

The very first thing that link tells you to do is start Steam in online mode.

How the flaming hell am I supposed to do that if Steam won't start?

(Never mind that indeed, all my games are up to date and Steam does indeed save my login credentials so in theory, offline mode should work. But it's not.)

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[guises]

Do you even remember pre-steam DRM schemes?

Yes I do, that's why I tried to make a point of calling out activation rather than DRM as a whole. Obviously DRM is never a good thing, but something like a disc check, while annoying, does allow you to retain real ownership over your media. I can resell it if I like, lend it to a friend if I like, install it whenever I like without an internet connection and without asking permission.

You are correct that the delivery method for a game which requires activation isn't really important. I'm not trying to be down on Steam exclusively, it's activation that I avoid. It's just that anything which you get through Steam requires activation.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure I understand your argument, but it sounds to me as if you don't really know how Steam works.

When you buy a game through the online store, Steam downloads it to its folder. This is only done once (not counting updates); if you move the drive with your games to a new computer you don't have to download or activate anything again. I've done this a number of times, I promise you this is how it works. So you have one single activation/download; I'm not sure what else you could ask for, for games bought and downloaded online? Less than one activation/download?

The only reason you would download a game again is if you lost your drive or wanted to play the game from a second computer and didn't have the downloaded files on hand, which, again, makes a lot of sense to me.

However, it is possible to buy games elsewhere (say, in the Humble Bundles) that come both with a DRM-free download and a Steam code. As far as I can make sense of your argument, you are saying that the installation file you downloaded won't work with Steam. This is true. Steam requires you to activate the game on your account and download it from their servers. I'm almost certain that the Steam version of the installation files are different from the DRM-free version of it and that's why it won't work unless you download it that one time. Again, this makes sense to me.

Are you saying that the problem is that you can't install the game in multiple computers? Because you totally can, as long as you use the same Steam account.

Other than that, I got nothing.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Go do a Google search.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I know, I've done this, and after a while it wants to talk to mothershio again. I'm not the only one who has encountered this.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

What's also a fact is that you didn't bother doing a simple Google search before posting. Instead of making a point, you outed yourself as a thick-skulled fanboy who, if Murphy is listening, will soon discover the offline mode doesn't always work.

Classy.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

It also seems to add about 7 seconds launchtime to every single game I play that works through it.

(In the end I abandoned it and switched to Good Old Games, to launch quicker.)

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Randle_Revar]

>If you closed Steam before shutting down it worked fine

Who doesn't shut steam down after they are done playing? And who doesn't close all programs before shutting down? What the hell people.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

DRM done right

eat shit

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Don't forget to do that search. You'll want to know about when the off-line mode fails before it bites you.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to enable Steam's Offline Mode. It's not as gratifying as posting a complaint, but it would've taken less time and energy just to google it.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

You forgot to enable Steam's Offline Mode.

No, I didn't.

It's not as gratifying as posting a complaint, but it would've taken less time and energy just to google it.

You mean like Googling to see if there's a problem with the off-line mode?

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[bloodhawk]

Ahhhh so Steam is not to blame, it is the companies that choose to use them, silly me.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[wolrahnaes]

Who doesn't shut steam down after they are done playing?

People who have the vast majority of their games from the last x years in Steam and don't mind the few dozen MB of RAM it takes up in the background for the time savings of just being able to launch any game in two clicks?

People who use the Steam IM system to see when their friends are online and playing a game they might want to join?

And who doesn't close all programs before shutting down?

Who manually closes any of their autorun-at-startup programs before shutting down? Or really anything? Make sure anything open you care about is saved, Start, Shutdown.

What the hell yourself? Are you one of those crazy people who thinks empty RAM is a good thing? Before I had a SSD the Steam client took about 15 seconds to reach the login screen, then another 20-30 before my game list was available. Now these are in the 5 and 10-15 second ranges respectively, but still more than just right-clicking the Steam icon in my tray or pinned to my taskbar and going right to the game I want. Unless you're really tight on RAM or want to prevent people from playing your Steam-purchased games on your computer without logging in first, just treating it as a constantly running service is a good common choice.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[NemosomeN]

Indeed. "Winny the Pooh" has foe'd me, presumably over that statement. There's no arguing that there is an effective way and an ineffective way to do DRM, and Steam is, regardless of how you feel about it, effective.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam prices are set by the companies selling the games, not by Steam, except in the case of Valve games.

An example of Valve pricing for CS:GO which is listed for $15. You'll notice that the British price is nearly identical to the USA price, but rounded up to the nearest Pound.

"The exchange rate is:
$15 = £9.58

Add 20% Vat - 9.58 + 1.92 = £11.50

Current price on steam is £11.99

So the price is in fact only 0.49p extra."

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[NemosomeN]

That's a fair criticism. In fact, I would say 7 seconds is quite generous. I often find myself waiting longer. I do like the fact though, that I can toss my computer out my window right now, get a new one, and have all my games back in the time it takes to redownload them.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to have your password saved for it to ask if you want to start in offline mode.

Re:I've got a vague idea of what Steam is -

[NemosomeN]

Yes, as long as you have the original CD-key, you can restore your account. I restored mine with my original Half-Life 1 CD-key just a few years ago. (It's the only game on my account that I have ever had a physical copy of, I think)

1000?

[Anonymous Coward]

"an external beta of 1000 users"

Wow, they are rolling it out to the entire Linux gaming community at once with plenty of spots to spare.

Re:1000?

[wierd_w]

Hardly. The german tinkerer community alone would gobble that down in no time.

There are way more linux users than you realize Mr AC.

Re:1000?

[artor3]

And I hear a few of them even have a sense of humor!

Re:1000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Still less than Mac users. I would guess there are even more Mac users on Slashdot than Linux users.

Re:1000?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

There are way more linux users than you realize Mr AC.

Do any of them have a sense of humor?

Re:1000?

[interval1066]

Do any of them have a sense of humor?

$ man woman
No manual entry for woman

No, not at all.

Re:1000?

[Samantha Wright]

To make up for that perceived shortage, the official GNU/Emacs distribution comes with a large amount of crufty, unfunny junk crammed in its /etc directory. Take a look!

Re:1000?

[toejam13]

I think you're mistaking the Linux gaming community for the FreeBSD gaming community. And yes, I would love to try Steam out with Linux-compat compiled into my FreeBSD kernel.

Re:1000?

[Anonymous Coward]

My kingdom for a mod point...

Re:1000?

[Lucractius]

Thats on my todo list actually. But I use both, though the more i use Gentoo, the harder it is to really enjoy FreeBSD like I used to when I used it as my main desktop oh so many years ago.

Re:1000?

[Nerdfest]

The German tinkerer community is known for its sense of humour.

Re:1000?

[atomicxblue]

Even though I am waiting for more and more games to come to Linux, a small part of me thinks it would be funny if they just Rickroll'd everyone, considering how much hype they generated. At least they would go down in the history books as one of the larger internet pranks. :p

Re:1000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the German Tinkerer community the one that built FunnyBot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcY9jp6mGts

Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[bersl2]

Heart skipped a beat there.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Eternal Beta" does describe certain types of software you can find on Linux...

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[pecosdave]

As someone who's used Linux nearly exclusively for more than a decade I'll proudly say:

Most of it. The better stuff anyways.

There's a lot of Alpha and cobbled together feeling stuff on there also. Still, when I go to work and use my Windows 7 machine I look at it and wonder how my coworkers could possibly go home and continue using that crap.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[Kjella]

"Eternal Beta" does describe certain types of software you can find on Linux...

Only if it's made by Google, otherwise it's an alpha branded as a release candidate.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[FunPika]

Knowing Valve, the time between beta/final release will be (close to) eternal anyways.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[Type44Q]

"Eternal Beta" does describe certain types of software you can find on Linux...

Pffft, I'd say it describes Windows even better.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Eternal Beta" does describe certain types of software you can find on Linux...

Valve said they were beginning Steam support with Ubuntu, not Fedora!

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[elrous0]

I bet you're a blast at company parties.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[SplashMyBandit]

Well, I'd prefer a dullard at a company party - who you can always liven up by coaxing them out of their shell - than someone with seemingly closed minded arrogance (and still stuck in a high school "popularity matters more than character" mindset).

Hopefully my reading of your post was wrong and it wasn't snarky, just some attempt at levity.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[pecosdave]

I'm a real tech.

They schedule company parties during my work shift and I don't get to go.

Of course the apartment party I was sort of the hero, they didn't expect a fat guy to beat that many skinny people in limbo.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pics or GTFO!

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[atomicxblue]

I thought Eternal was how long it takes to install some of the larger software suites in Wine..

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[ikaruga]

As well as most google products.

Re:Anyone else first read "External" as "Eternal"?

[DarthVain]

Powered by Google?

Mandatory Binding Arbitration

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it still have Mandatory Binding Arbitration?

Will it still stop you from downloading your games before you leave if you don't agree with the new contract?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Well, there's not going to be a second time. I'm done for life with steam.

Re:Mandatory Binding Arbitration

[lister king of smeg]

seeings as that has become industry standard while I don't care for it in eula I will tolerate it in exchange for the games it provides. Besides has that clause been tested in a real court case yet? I doubt that a would stand up as you can't sign away your legal rights.

Re:Mandatory Binding Arbitration

[NotQuiteReal]

you can't sign away your legal rights

This would be clicking away your rights, that is totally different, and probably patentable.

Re:Mandatory Binding Arbitration

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't AT&T already prove a clause like this was legal? Or am I getting confused with a different case?

You won't have to use Steam to benefit from this.

[Jartan]

The intent is more to get Steam users off Windows and onto Linux than to take advantage of the current Linux market.

With Windows 8 announcing an app shop and scaring the hell out of small time developers we could finally see a real push for Linux adoption.

"Dates"?

[Goaway]

"Next week"? "Some time in October"?

This is some new and exciting definition of the word "dates" which I have not yet encountered.

Re:"Dates"?

[mic0e]

You might want to take a look at the mysterious concept of Valve Time: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

Re:"Dates"?

[schitso]

Welcome to Valve Time.

Re:"Dates"?

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be new here. That is as much precision as I usually get when I ask someone for a date...

Re:"Dates"?

[atomicxblue]

Has anyone else had the same feeling when you're waiting by the phone for your bf / gf to call? :p

Re:"Dates"?

[Randle_Revar]

yes

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[Anonymous Coward]

So that's why Steam went with OSX after Apple's own app store was already in place? Your theory goes against the evidence.
 
As far as "real push for Linux adoption"? You're quite the optimist... Sadly this isn't the utopia you hoped for. After seeing what Steam has done for OS X I can't help but think things will be positively abysmal for Linux. There are a number of games in the Steam store for OS X that they only offer the Windows clients for, there's a number of bugs in their own client which don't seem to be being addressed and there are next to no new releases for OS X in the near future.
 
You may shrug it off as being an OS X thing. Say what you will but all evidence points to OS X users being more likely to shell out cash for software than any other platform. Who's going to go for Linux if they can't get software developed with 5-10 times more established OS X users?
 
The only solid bet from Steam on any other platform is Valve's offerings and if their direction is in any way represented in CS:GO than Valve isn't going to be around as a major player for much longer.

if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Dan667]

if Steam works on Linux with enough games I may just skip Windows 8 and everything after that.

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely most games will still only work on Windows though, right? Or perhaps I don't really understand what steam is, since I've been a Linux user for about 15 years.

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Ignacio]

Once the engines are ported, the games should be available with just a few commands on the part of the developers (assuming the programmers knew their head from their ass in the first place [yes, I'm an optimist that way]).

Of course, porting the engines is no mean feat...

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[SplashMyBandit]

> Of course, porting the engines is no mean feat...
There are plenty of cross platform engines out there. All it really requires is a commitment to testing on more than one platform by the platform licensee. Hopefully with Valve and Apple pushing the envelope of what is possible (on all sorts of platforms, eg. gaming on your iPad/Android tablet etc) then developers will see that is more profitable to write a cross-platform (including Windows) game than a Windows-only game as they've been suckered in to in the past.

The other big factor is OpenGL support and usage. OpenGL was ahead of DirectX for a long time, then slipped behind in features, and is now pretty much ahead (more platforms, almost all features work on all platforms provided the graphics hardware supports it, unlike DirectX's strategy of requiring OS upgrades to get new features [probably designed that way as a revenue spinner]). Now it is DirectX platforms that are the minority and OpenGL is *everywhere*: its on Windows, Apple, Linux, iOS, Android, commercial embedded devices [eg. avionics], the PS/3. There is only one place that OpenGL isn't, and that is the XBox 360 [this is my design from Microsoft]. Kinda makes you think, why bother with DirectX when the only exclusive platform for that is the XBox 360 when by choosing OpenGL I can run my shaders everywhere else [which is exactly the conclusion I came to when designing my game - which is cross-platform and OpenGL shader based].

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[jo_ham]

This is what we were promised in the OS X community when Steam launched on Mac OS X, and for the most part it has been a success - especially for Valve titles and smaller indie titles. Most of the big publishers are sticking to Windows though - likely because they're not using Source and the engines they do use have separate licensing for different platforms (or worse, only available on Windows).

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Baloroth]

Most, yes, although they may offer some games (where it works really well) under a WINE wrapper (I believe they use Dosbox for some Dos games in a similar fashion). Some will, however, be native (Valve titles mostly, at the beginning anyways).

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[gman003]

Once the engines are ported, the games should be available with just a few commands on the part of the developers

Should be, but not always are.

For example: Valve's Source engine was ported over to OS X. Valve ported over all of their Source titles. But they have also licensed it to other developers, and to my knowledge not a single one of them actually ported their game (going off "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic", "SiN Episodes: Emergence", "Zeno Clash" and "Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines"). Now, some of them have excuses (the SiN Episodes series was canned after one episode, and VTMB nearly predates HL2 and would have to be ported to a much newer version of the engine), but that's still a pretty bad record.

And some games that have OS X ports, and have the Windows version on Steam, haven't released the OS X version on Steam yet. Example: UT2004. Or they pull bullshit like treating the two ports as separate games (see: Call of Duty: Black Ops).

Basically, while your optimistic predictions are fully possible, in theory, the practice is likely to let you down a bit.

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, from what I can tell by using Steam, to play dos games it launches an instance of DOSBOX. So porting those games over should be trivial. For the wine idea, while I have gotten games to work really well in WINE it normally takes some work configuring, messing w/ winetricks, etc. And in the case of Deus Ex: Human Revolution it involved compiling WINE from source w/ a patch.

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Anonymous Coward]

Also though pointing to this being a somewhat viable solution, I got Fallout: New Vegas to work perfectly in WINE. It worked pretty much out of the box. It also seemed more stable then in windows.

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Lucractius]

They could stand to be a LOT more proactive with these older games. For instance I got the original Fallout and... yeah, its useless out of the box on steam. Yes I love staring at the 256colour rainbow shotgun effect over half the game on my Windows 7 gaming box.

Re:if this is viable maybe no more windows for me

[Anonymous Coward]

You're correct. I've developed a game engine from scratch -- Basically started with an abstraction layer for windowing and creating an OpenGL context, then sounds -- models, animations, scripts, game logic, etc all "just work" after that.

I do all my coding on Linux, then git pull && make && bin\start-game on the Windows machine to create the windows build, the exact same as the Linux and Mac machines (except the last part on *nix is: ... && ./bin/start-game).

Once you've got the platform specific bits abstracted, it takes ZERO additional development time to build for the other supported OSs. Testing is another matter, but the cost/benefit analysis shows it's worth it. It makes no sense to ignore $$$ for no good reason:

"You mean all we have to to to get a larger chunk of money is start out with a cross platform engine?!"
YES.

This is why games ARE coming to Linux. It makes no sense not to.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the strategy is to make PC gaming into console gaming, and possibly even into phone-based gaming, in parallel with PC gaming. They want to break into the casual gamer market which has been largely not been the realm of PC based gaming, and has exploded a million fold since the smartphone revolution.

Imagine an inexpensive $100-200 Linux-based, network enabled set-top box which is able to access all of your games and media, and even savegames from your PC. It'll have a reasonably powerful processor, with reasonably powerful GPU, and enough memory to make it work for the foreseeable future, and no more. That's where it's going, I guarantee you. The only reason they care about Linux is that it's mature enough to do what they want, and most importantly, no licensing fees.

Yey!

[Anonymous Coward]

After secureboot, zeitgeist, amazon ads, all we need is a DRM.
Valve, just give us the bins. This is not m$-apple-tardland...

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[Anonymous Coward]

In short, it isn't about the Linux desktop communnity as a primary revenue stream. It's about the Linux desktop community being used by Steam as a larger testing community. The end game is most certainly a Steam set top box to compete with MS without having to pay MS or being forced to dilute the branding with MS branding.

I would just like to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Christmas comes early for the lucky thousand. I wonder if another hunger strike will convince them to raise that number?

Re:I would just like to say

[NemosomeN]

I doubt Gabe Newell is familiar with hunger strikes.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[Anonymous Coward]

With Windows 8 announcing an app shop and scaring the hell out of small time developers we could finally see a real push for Linux adoption.

Emphasis is mine. Sorry, but when talking about Steam and Valve I don't think small time developers fits the bill. Sure, as game developers Valve may not be very large, but Steam as a delivery channel is huge. I know a lot of people that buy most, if not all, their new games using Steam. Sure, I hate the DRM (and it's consistently a source of problems), but the bottom line still is that it is more convenient than alternatives (including physical media).

I really do hope that we will see more Linux ports of games I actually want to play, but this is only the very first step in this process. So keep your fingers crossed!

About time

[Psicopatico]

As many of you already know, Steam works fine in wine.

Ok, it may not be 100% perfect: it doesn't recognize correctly the microphone from my 100% original SoundBlaster (but probably it's only me) and sometimes has quite long loading times. But it runs fine.

However I had to completely get rid of it. And the most funny part is not for a Steam's fault (just my uneducated guess).
Preamble: check the Nvidia support forums for various references to "NVRM XID errors".
There are some really nasty bugs that occur to a lot of users while using the 3D features or CUDA from their video cards, which render the computer completely unusable and requires a reboot (remote CLI access still works).
Now, check again: for those about the 3D acceleration it's always when using software (games) via wine.
Obviously (sigh) I'm one of the affected by this. But everything is fine while using native code (videogames, blender, w/e).
That lead me to the conclusion that it's wine who triggers the condition resulting in the freezes. Perhaps a malformed call to a function or something, I don't know. And, I repeat, it's just a my completely uneducated guess.

At the end of the day, the net result is: no Steam via wine (or any other 3D game, for the matter) for me. I simply won't trade stability for some time (can be a few minutes, can be a few hours, not predictable) of entertainment.
So, it's about time we can have it natively. I'm really looking forward for this.

Re:About time

[kermidge]

I've been a bit more lucky. I had Civ V working fine under Wine in early '10 until I decided I needed to 'fix' something and could never get it working again. So I got Crossover Games (now all combined as Crossover XI - shows up as .cxoffice) and it works fine but only with DirectX9. Ditto with Silent Hunter IV. The games I have from Frictional I got either from Humble Bundles or Steam and they play well, natively, or via Steam in Crossover.

Have had two video cards, an 8800GT, now a 460GTX, and two processors, 9350e and 1090T (same socket, BIOS upgrade). Using current_release nVidia drivers, Ubuntu 64-bit, now 12.04.

I've had three, maybe four crashes this year with Crossover, don't remember the error messages, but I think they were either memory or dll related. Only took down the game and locked up Steam; none froze the system. As I say, lucky. That, and I'm not much of a gamer (just shy of 900 hours this year in Civ, for example) - the games I play don't make much of a demand on the system or, apparently, on Wine.

As with you, I look forward to Steam on Linux. It'll be interesting to see how it works, and progresses.

Linux != Ubuntu

[hobarrera]

Support for Ubuntu 12.04 and above

It's not really "Linux support", but rather Ubuntu support. A huge disappointment for long-time *nix users/power-users, who, generally, don't use Ubuntu.

Re:Linux != Ubuntu

[pnot]

long-time *nix users/power-users, who, generally, don't use Ubuntu.

Is that conjecture/anecdata, or verifiable fact?

(Not being snarky, genuinely curious.)

Re:Linux != Ubuntu

[gman003]

They're doing the initial beta (and possibly initial release) only under Ubuntu, to limit the number of complications.

Why Ubuntu? There are a couple of reasons for that. First, we’re just starting development and working with a single distribution is critical when you are experimenting, as we are. It reduces the variability of the testing space and makes early iteration easier and faster. Secondly, Ubuntu is a popular distribution and has recognition with the general gaming and developer communities. This doesn’t mean that Ubuntu will be the only distribution we support. Based on the success of our efforts around Ubuntu, we will look at supporting other distributions in the future.

Source: Valve Linux blog, entry "Steam'd Penguins", posted July 16 2012

And all that means, really, is that they currently only "support" it on Ubuntu - it will quite likely run fine on other distros, although probably with some work involved. And, if it's a reasonable success, they may make it supported on other major distros.

Re:Linux != Ubuntu

[Anonymous Coward]

Conjecture. Many long time users I know use Ubuntu because it gets so many things right, has a huge q&a base when things don't go right, and generally is easy to use and change. There are plenty of reasons not to use Ubuntu, philosophical, familiarity with other systems, etc. But it certainly isn't a "dumb"version of Linux or anything. And since it feels very much Ike debian, being debian + stuff, plenty of old timers -- like me -- made the switch and are happily using it.

I think anything popular rubs people the wrong way, but use Ubuntu and install e17 or window maker if you want to. It works fine, and you will probably find other people doing the same as you...

  Valve has stated they will not be restricting it to just Ubuntu, but do want to limit the initial release to be more targeted.

And to claim that Ubuntu support is somehow some awful subclass of Linux is pretty narrow minded if you ask me. It will probably install without issue on debian and mint and other debian based distros. Ubuntu runs a Linux kernel + patches, just like every other distro. I'm not sure what the subject even means. Linux by itself is not a complete OS.

Re:Linux != Ubuntu

[kungfuj35u5]

Yeah and somehow products only officially supported with redhat rpms don't work on Slackware and the likes... /s
Ubuntu is close enough, ABI compatibility and packed shared libs are all we really need to ensure it works on another distro.

Re:Linux != Ubuntu

[pnot]

Conjecture. Many long time users I know use Ubuntu because it gets so many things right, has a huge q&a base when things don't go right, and generally is easy to use and change. There are plenty of reasons not to use Ubuntu, philosophical, familiarity with other systems, etc. But it certainly isn't a "dumb"version of Linux or anything. And since it feels very much Ike debian, being debian + stuff, plenty of old timers -- like me -- made the switch and are happily using it.

As an oldtimer using Ubuntu myself, I largely agree. It largely Just Works and gets the job done, and these days that's what I want out of an OS. And yes, the Debian-esqueness makes it very comfortable.

Re:Linux != Ubuntu

[squiggleslash]

Quite, don't they understand it would run 5-10% faster under Gentoo?..

(Is Gentoo still a thing? I mean, I haven't heard anything about it for a while. Did the ricers find a new thing to latch onto?)

Steam runs already in wine

[Vince6791]

Well, except steam the program itself runs just fine under wine with no issues. Only problem is that some games don't run. Can run cod4MW Multi-Player but's it's slow on the ati radeon 6850 but fast on geforce 9600gt. If gaming came big time to linux natively and netflix(better than amazon prime) as well, a lot of people would be happy and probably move to linux for good not looking back on windows with all those overpriced license restrictions garbage. I wonder if the steam native client would run fine in kubuntu, xubuntu, etc...

Wine doesn't do mouse correctly

[Plekto]

The main issue with running under WINE is that they have to use proprietary code for the mouse and input drivers.

What this means is that the mouse doesn't work in 80%+ of games. It's a known issue and they refuse to deal with it, despite having had a working solution when they were still offering their commercial product. They pontificate on their forums about how they support free software only and take the usual neckbeard cave-dweller *IX hard-line about "no commercial anything anywhere, any time." All the while while they HAVE the code.

They even go so far as to delete posts and requests about mouse problems from their forums and claim that there's no problem, or that it works fine. Wine are complete assholes about it. I can run Mass Effect 1 perfectly except there's ZERO control of the character with the mouse - it's just dead. No fix at all.

When I had Cedega, it ran perfectly. They killed Cedega and presto - everything simply broke due to worthless drivers.

You can bet that Steam will have no such issues getting the mouse and joystick working properly.

Re:Wine doesn't do mouse correctly

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a known issue and they refuse to deal with it, despite having had a working solution when they were still offering their commercial product. They pontificate on their forums about how they support free software only and take the usual neckbeard cave-dweller *IX hard-line about "no commercial anything anywhere, any time."

You're full of shit and stereotypes. The devs have acknowledged the problem several times, but they can't fix it inside Wine. The "working solution" you're talking about broke several major apps and games, and only fixed some of the games with mouse problems; the only correct fix that won't break things is to alter the X Windows server to allow a different, windows-style mouse interface method to be switched on.

Re:Wine doesn't do mouse correctly

[atomicxblue]

Part of the problem with this is that WINE was updated to allow the mouse / keyboard to remotely control a Wine app across the network. Part of the problem with WINE and the greater *nix community is that small, specialized cases becomes the standard for everyone.

How many games?

[asmkm22]

This will do well if and when they manage make every steam game run under Linux, magically. It's it's going to be a matter of having to make it happen on a game by game basis, however, adoption rates will be horrid, no matter how much they'd like to make it work.

Re:How many games?

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends. Some games are going to be trivial, some are going to be neigh impossible to port. An example of a trivial port will be most of the old games that were originally made for DOS. Steam plays those games by simply running an instance of dosbox, so these should be able to be ported by doing the same method in Linux. Some of the games already have linux versions (see the humble indie bundle games a good chunk of them are also on steam)

Re:What is Steam and why care?

[kermidge]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[an unsound mind]

Portal 2, CS:GO and Dota 2 are all recent Valve games.

More importantly, Valve is very much a major player in publishing - these days more so than in developing. They likely can keep their developing arm going on longer than the lifespans of current staff with the profits from their publishing arm.

The game library for Steam Linux will likely be Valve's titles and a wide library of 3rd party independent titles at first. Certainly nowhere near Steam Windows, but still nothing to sneeze at.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[an unsound mind]

Another way you won't have to use Steam to benefit from this: The Steam development effort has already brought a lot of driver patches along, improving mostly 3D performance.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[kermidge]

I think you're correct that OS X users are more likely to shell out cash.

However, Linux gamers have consistently paid more for Humble Bundles than those using other OSes; the total amount compared to Windows, anyway, is still relatively small. I'm curious to see how this plays out. As others have suggested, this may be a path to a non-Windows set-top box and store.

Is that an invitation?

[Anonymous Coward]

And, cue more Debbie Downer replies that continue to lack and clue as to what humor is...

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, might me begin to see marketing badges that proclaim a game to be "Best on Linux" or something equivalent?

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[Barryke]

No, the intent is to control their own software stack as to not be dependant. And when its finished they can sell us the Steam console, which strangely nobody sees coming.

Will WINE be involved?

[rklrkl]

Whilst I can see that Valve will port their games natively to Linux, how many other big dev houses will do the same by the time Steam goes gold on Linux? Without other houses involved, Steam surely will fail on Linux, so could some sort of WINE layer help matters? Valve devs would be ideally placed to fix issues with non-Valve games under WINE and once a game passes testing under Linux+WINE+Windows version of game, it could be added to the Steam store on Linux (though each game update would have to be re-tested too of course).

I'm also a little surprised about how only one exact version of one exact Linux distro (OK, Ubuntu 12.10 too when that's out next month) is supported, yet Windows Steam supports three (about to be four) different versions of Windows. No love for Fedora or openSuSE then? Perhaps providing a statically linked .tar.bz2 binary package for non-Ubuntu distros as well would be a nice thing to provide?

Re:Will WINE be involved?

[AlXtreme]

Well, Steam + TF2 already works in wine, with a few quirks. I'd expect them to start from there and slowly spread to other major distributions starting with Ubuntu, there's only so much you'd want to support this early in the game.

Although I'd wish Value would go Linux-native (I'm not sure if they have confirmed this), it would indeed take much more time to port each non-Source third-party game and having Valve actively supporting wine would mean more improvements for wine in general. It would be a big step-up from the Cedega/Transgaming attempts from the last decade.

Re:Will WINE be involved?

[mellyra]

Well, Steam + TF2 already works in wine, with a few quirks. I'd expect them to start from there and slowly spread to other major distributions starting with Ubuntu, there's only so much you'd want to support this early in the game.

Although I'd wish Value would go Linux-native (I'm not sure if they have confirmed this), it would indeed take much more time to port each non-Source third-party game and having Valve actively supporting wine would mean more improvements for wine in general. It would be a big step-up from the Cedega/Transgaming attempts from the last decade.

on Mac the Valve games are native but most other games offered through Steam use Cider (a Wine derivative), DosBox, ...

Re:Will WINE be involved?

[Ash-Fox]

Without other houses involved, Steam surely will fail on Linux

Quite a few titles in Steam's catalog already have pre-existing Linux ports.

I'm also a little surprised about how only one exact version of one exact Linux distro (OK, Ubuntu 12.10 too when that's out next month) is supported, yet Windows Steam supports three (about to be four) different versions of Windows. No love for Fedora or openSuSE then?

You're assuming it won't run on other distributions. With the correct libc and dependencies, it should be fine. Community members can package an RPM as needed to provide Steam the environment it needs to function on other distros, big deal.

You forgot the $ and DRM

[cbhacking]

Mostly true, but Steam is also a storefront wrapping a DRM system. Some Steam games can run apparently without Steam running and signed in (none of the ones I've tried, though), but many can't. To be fair, that's sometimes because they use Steam for in-game features (multiplayer matchmaking and such) but often it's just for the DRM. There are almost no free (as in cost, much less freedom) games on Steam, so it's not much like a typical Linux package management repo in that way either.

As DRM schemes go, Steam isn't that bad; it can run in an offline mode for up to a month or so without connecting to Valve's servers, and it quite handily avoids the whole "You have used up your limit of X activations" BS. It brings a host of other problems, though, like the inability for two people to play two completely different games at the same time if they were purchased on the same account. It also has the usual "you don't really own it" BS of DRMed media, such as the complete inability to resell any game.

Re:You forgot the $ and DRM

[geekoid]

OTOH, traditionally I can buy a game at the tore for 50 bucks. Later resell it for 5 bucks. On steam, I can usually purchase that same game for 25 bucks. So resell doesn't really bother me. Gifting games I have played needs to be allowed.

Bu yes, they need a 'home server' option that lets anyone in your home play any game as long as someone else isn't playing it.

Re:You forgot the $ and DRM

[Uhyve]

It brings a host of other problems, though, like the inability for two people to play two completely different games at the same time if they were purchased on the same account.

Actually, you can use offline mode to get around this, it's actually even possible to play some games multiplayer over LAN with two computers on the same account... not that I've ever done that.

Re:You forgot the $ and DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

there's a ton of free-to-play games on steam

Re:You forgot the $ and DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to add that DRM is entirely optional for Steam games, it's up to the company that lists the game.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[FunPika]

So that's why Steam went with OSX after Apple's own app store was already in place? Your theory goes against the evidence.

Steam for OSX was announced on March 8, 2010 and released on May 12, 2010. The Mac App Store was announced on October 20, 2010 and released on January 6, 2011. So Apple's App Store was released several months later unless you are counting the iOS Store as something Valve would have been concerned about.

ufufyf

[Anonymous Coward]

fyfyyff

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[atomicxblue]

The more telling factoid is that Gabe Newell worked at Microsoft for 13 years on 3 releases of Windows. If any of us, he has a better chance of understanding the inner workings of Windows. It makes one wonder what soured him to Microsoft in the first place.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[atomicxblue]

This is something we have needed for a long time. Reducing overhead in OpenGL could trickle down to Windows users as well and may give other development houses an incentive to drop Direct3D. The fact that Valve was able to get AMD, Nvidia and Intel to work towards better graphic drivers is almost Herculean.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[aliquis]

Valves games alone would be interesting enough for me.

Having Blizzards games would had been totally awesome though.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[JonJ]

Steam for Mac released in March 2010. 10.6.6 with App Store was released in 2011.

Advantages of Steam

[phorm]

I'm not sure what "DRM done right" would be, DRM is after all a limitation on what you can do with your purchased media

Yes, by definition DRM usually takes something away (in terms of your ability to play a game unhindered). However steam also gives something back, especially when compared to older DRM methods.
Remember needing a "play disc" whenever you wanted to play, or hunting for serial keys to complete an install? Remember looking up "paragraph 3, word 2, in your Galactic Almanac" in order to pass some important point of a game. For the most part, steam got rid of that.
It also lets you easily install any game in your purchase library from online, or from backup (disc, HDD, whatever), easily make matches with other friends on steam, and regularly has deeply-discounted sales of great games.

DRM-done right is IMHO when the benefit to the customer reaches or exceeds parity with the drawbacks. If steam isn't that for most people, it's probably as close as we'll get for any recently release games. For those that want to purchase slightly older (some still fairly recent) DRM-free games, I recommended someplace like Good ol' Games, which is great for a download library/catalog but lacks the match-making/social component.

Now Valve/Steam is pushing into Linux (well, their gameservers often already were, but this is for the clients).
Some people might complain they're not open-source.
Some people might complain they still have DRM.
Some people tend to have a cup-half-full mentality. I and many of my friends are infinitely pleased to see Valve taking steps to improving the Linux gaming ecosystem.

This beta will certainly be worth the weight

[partyguerrilla]

I loved the child in him
so innocent and sweet
The mischief in his eyes
the blush upon his cheek
The tender way he spoke
that showed me that he cared
The touch of his warm hand
that gently touched my hair
The smiles that we shared
that filled my life with glee
For when I was with him
I found the child in me

For Gaben.

Re:You won't have to use Steam to benefit from thi

[ninjacut]

Its definitely good for Linux, but may not be at the cost of Windows. The followers are in different silos, and this is not huge advantage to shift from one to other. Anyone ignoring Windows on desktop has a big challenge for sure, its like ignoring Android and iOS for phones. They still have over billion users, if not more.

Re:What is Steam and why care?

[Gothmolly]

Wow, ask what Steam for Linux is, and you get trollmodded down to oblivion. Fanboi much?

Re:What is Steam and why care?

[Anonymous Coward]

probably because the first post in the discussion already asked that question