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Ask Slashdot: Hacking Urban Noise?

b1tbkt writes "I live at the corner of one of the busiest intersections in my city (pop. 350k). Although I've replaced all windows, insulated, and caulked every square inch of the place, the fire trucks and cars with obnoxious stereos still regularly intrude on my home office. Most of the noise comes in through the windows. I'm considering mounting an oblong parabolic reflector in the ceiling above the windows with a steady feed of white or brownian noise directed into it (e.g., via a small speaker placed within the reflector) to create a 'wall' of sound that would act as a buffer to the outside world. Active noise cancellation would be nice, too, but that's probably more than I want to take on. I don't see any products on the market for this sort of thing. Does anyone have any experiences to share with similar homebrew noise remediation efforts?"

18 of 474 comments (clear)

  1. Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Quit being a downtown hipster and move to a nice house on a quiet street.

  2. George Bernard Shaw by Frankie70 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    1. Re:George Bernard Shaw by jhoegl · · Score: 5, Funny

      My adaption to fart mufflers and loud base was a sound detector and a machine gun. If the passing car got too loud, it would track and fire.
      I havent built it yet, but one day...
      I wouldnt shed a tear for these obnoxious people. They disturb hundreds of people daily, so fuck em.

    2. Re:George Bernard Shaw by joocemann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've come to accept the loud bass ---- when you were a teen and you enjoyed it in your own car, or your friends' car, you basically asked for it.

      When I hear the loud annoying bass cars go by, I get frustrated, and then I reflect on the youth, including my youth, and I sympathize with their carelessness and then forgive.

      Reflect on your own foolish crap with honesty. You'll understand that you, too, used to piss off a lot of people doing something you thought was fun. And then maybe some tolerance and understanding can help...

  3. Heavy drape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Have curtains made from the kind of heavy drape they use in studios. Check out how people deal with acoustic treatment in home studio builds. For instance the gearslutz.com "studio building/acoustics" subforum has many threads to geek out on.

  4. Mass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Although there are dozens of vendors selling what sound like promising solutions, there is only one solution that really works: more mass. Think of it as a physics problem.. sound waves energy transmitted through the air that cause parts of the structure (including the structure above and below) and environment (e.g. the air around you) to vibrate at a particular resonance. The only way to stop the noise is to stop the vibration. A popular option is to use double drywall with something like rockwool insulation between the studs. You can get away with either 2 x 1/2" drywall or 2 x 5/8" drywall with a small furring strip in between without sacrificing too much living space. Look into Green Glue as an additional way to dampen vibrations in that setup. You can also go for a detached wall or "room within a room," but that starts to get expensive to do right.

    If you want to look at a "serious" solution ($$$$), you should try to find a sound mitigation contractor in your area. They can survey the room during different times of day and determine what the best solution is for your situation.

  5. More details needed by arth1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    How and what, exactly, have you insulated, and where is your domicile in relation to the street?

    Do you have sound dampening mats on the ceiling? If not, bear in mind that most houses and apartments are above street level, and most of the sound will be reflected off the ceiling. A layer of sound dampening material there should have the largest effect.

    If you live low to the ground, sound insulating the walls that can see the street, rather than just outside walls would have a similar effect.

    A few strategically placed plants or sound dividers - think cubicle walls but far less intrusive - can also help.

    If you must go with a noise generator (which I don't recommend), try pink noise instead of white. The sounds from the street you try to mask out are going to be mostly low frequency, and white noise will mainly add more sound energy in the higher end of the spectrum.

    1. Re:More details needed by davegravy · · Score: 5, Informative

      How and what, exactly, have you insulated, and where is your domicile in relation to the street?

      Do you have sound dampening mats on the ceiling? If not, bear in mind that most houses and apartments are above street level, and most of the sound will be reflected off the ceiling. A layer of sound dampening material there should have the largest effect.

      If you live low to the ground, sound insulating the walls that can see the street, rather than just outside walls would have a similar effect.

      There are two components to the noise intrusion - the direct field and the reverberant field. Adding absorptive finishes to the room will help reduce the reverberant field, which in a best case scenario will buy you 3dB (i.e a barely noticeable improvement). Short improving the isolation (i.e windows and exterior partition construction) there isn't anything you can do about the direct field.

      A few strategically placed plants or sound dividers - think cubicle walls but far less intrusive - can also help.

      Massive barriers can help in outdoor noise propagation scenarios. In this type of situation, the outdoor noise is impacting the exterior facade, causing it to vibrate, and is re-radiating sound in the interior of the OP's space. This means that the source of sound is a large area, not a point source. The sound is effectively coming from "everywhere", and so you don't get the same kind of path length difference attenuation from barriers like you do when you have a point source that is far from the receiver. This is exascerbated by the fact that the intrusion is low frequency which diffracts around corners far more than higher frequency sound.

      Plants are not massive enough to be of any significant help. To put things into perspective, a dense forest that's 100m in depth will only attenuate sound 2-3dB, and that's mostly a high frequency reduction.

      If you must go with a noise generator (which I don't recommend), try pink noise instead of white. The sounds from the street you try to mask out are going to be mostly low frequency, and white noise will mainly add more sound energy in the higher end of the spectrum.

      White noise will add equal sound energy across the spectrum. Pink noise will add more energy in the lower frequencies. We don't typically recommend noise masking for low frequency intrusions into offices and other facilities we consult on because the masking is generally perceived to be more annoying than the original problem. It's best used when there is a speech privacy problem in large open offices because there isn't ENOUGH background noise.

      Upgrading your window would typically be recommended, but will only do a little for low frequency. Note that in glazed assemblies, the framing is the weak point. STC 35 is where most frames will top out (even though the glazing will advertise higher STCs into the 50s). If you want a really solid window construction you need an isolated frame assembly which is two frames in series that do not touch each other and which are isolated from the surrounding structure using 3mm thick neoprene gaskets. Each frame supports a separate pane of glass. The inside perimeter should be lined with glass-fibre to prevent standing waves in the cavity.
      Overall thickness of the glazing might be 2-3"

  6. Obligatory XKCD by whennegan · · Score: 5, Funny
  7. Wall of sound won't work by Chalnoth · · Score: 5, Informative

    It will do literally nothing. Sound waves simply add. You can't get rid of sound waves by adding a bunch of random sound waves. The sound waves you don't want will pass right through. Now, if you simply have a white noise generator in your house, so that the ambient volume is higher, that may make it so that your ears have a harder time picking out specific sounds, which will, in turn, make it easier to ignore them.

    Barring that, noise cancelling headphones or double-pane windows, as others have mentioned, are going to be your best bets. And double-pane windows are good for heating/cooling anyway.

    As an aside, I'm also rather skeptical that noise cancellation for the entire apartment could ever be practical. The problem is the waveform bouncing off the various walls and other features of the apartment is going to be too complex to accurately measure or cancel. And then what about the sounds you do want to hear?

  8. And the motorcycles .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My adaption to fart mufflers and loud base was a sound detector and a machine gun. If the passing car got too loud, it would track and fire.

    I havent built it yet, but one day...

    I wouldnt shed a tear for these obnoxious people. They disturb hundreds of people daily, so fuck em.

    And the motorcycles.

    It's all about our narcissistic society. "Hey look at me! I'm special!"

    1. Re:And the motorcycles .... by element-o.p. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I ride too, and you're full of crap.

      A loud pipe isn't going to keep an idiot driver from cutting you off. I've been cut off by idiot drivers more than once, and generally speaking, it's by a young kid with a ten thousand watt stereo cranked up to 11. Your loud pipe isn't going to phase him in the least, but it will piss off everyone else around you, leading to onerous restrictions about what can and cannot be installed on a bike, where bikes can go, etc. As far as only being excessively loud under extreme acceleration, yeah, I call B.S. on that, too. If you're running a straight pipe with no muffler, it will be loud even at idle. It's only ear-splitting at high manifold pressure settings (i.e., acceleration). Regarding "it is the driver...not the bike itself..." well, yeah, but that's a tautology since the rider is the one who has to remove the stock muffler to install the obnoxious one, it is the rider who has to thumb the starter button, and it's the rider who has to twist the throttle to get the bike to accelerate.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    2. Re:And the motorcycles .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree. I ride, and standing next to a harley with loud pipes is crazy. They're ridiculous, such that you can't even talk over them at a stop light. "Hey, you wanna turn left up there or keep going?" has to get done half with hand signals. And yes, the "loud pipes save lives" thing is total bullshit. Anywhere over 25mph, everyone merges into you anyway... they just don't hear you.

      Quick experiment, next time you see a cruiser coming up behind you, certainly keep your eye on them, but turn your stereo off and see if you can hear them. You'll see.

      That said, half mile away, you can only hear squids. I live near two highways, and that awful, high pitched whine they make travels right into your living room. It does not help that those kids travel in packs.

      So if your neighbor has a loud cruiser and regularly comes home at 1am every night, that could be annoying. If you live anywhere near a busy street, you learn to hate sport bike riders. The good part is they ride like morons, so over the course of a riding season it's an ever-diminishing population.

  9. Re:are the windows.. by grub · · Score: 5, Informative


    We put all triple-pane in our house (Winnipeg, Canada) 5 years ago. We noticed the street noise almost disappear. (Not to mention the winter heating bills dropped by ~30%+)
    Cost a pretty penny, about $13K for the whole house, but man was it worth it.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  10. Re:are the windows.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So you're saying he should try replacing his windows with linux? It might just work, I've certainly seen installations where I couldn't get any sound to come through linux.

  11. Re:Get a Pair of Headphones by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Headphones don't block noise and turning them up to block noise will damage your hearing.
      Amazon.com has ear protectors and they will help.

    Actually some headphones do block noise, by having a mic and playing the reverse sound (180 degrees out of phase).
    But in any event, living with headphones on is not an answer.

    The sound is coming thru the windows. Even dual pane windows won't help, they simply act as a drum.
    Three pane windows help some.

    What is needed is a dual pane window where the panes are not parallel. Tipping the top of the outer
    pane outward de-tunes the drum, and reduces sound transmission by quite a bit. The further you can tip it
    the better is works.

    It has the additional effect of cutting insolation, while actually increasing insulation.

    Any good galzier could do this for you and there are starting to be some commercial models available,
    but custom built is the best way to achieve this.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  12. Small Peckers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Admit it - You put loud exhausts on your cars and trucks because you have to compensate for your tiny penis. Why else? Or is it just that you like to annoy people? You want "raw power"? Try flying a military jet. As to "freedom", how about your understanding that others lose their freedom to peace and quiet because you're an asshole. You want loud noise? Put a stereo on your bike (undoubtedly a Harley piece of crap) and some ear phones. You get the "loud" you want without annoying other people.

  13. Re:The motorcycles are for lazy people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Across_America

    Less than two weeks, fat ass.