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Galaxy Tab Sales Ban Lifted, Samsung Sues Apple Over iPhone 5
another random user sends this quote from the BBC:
"A temporary sales ban on Samsung Electronics' Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet computer in the U.S. has been lifted by a U.S. court. District Judge Lucy Koh gave a court order rescinding a ban on U.S. sales that was part of a patent dispute with Apple. ... The ban on the Galaxy Tab 10.1 had been placed before a month-long patent trial between Apple and Samsung. In August, at the conclusion of that trial Apple was awarded a victory on many of its patent violation claims where it said Samsung had copied Apple's iPhone and iPad designs. It was also awarded more than $1bn (£664m) in damages. However, the jury found that Samsung had not violated the patent that was the basis for the ban on the sale of the Galaxy Tab 10.1. Samsung, therefore, argued for the sales ban to be lifted."
Samsung also went on the offensive against the iPhone 5 today, filing a motion to add the device to its ongoing patent infringement suit against Apple. Meanwhile, on another front, some good news for Apple: Motorola Mobility, owned by Google, has withdrawn its second complaint against Apple to the ITC. The complaint was filed in August over patent infringement claims involving several minor features. No explanation has been provided for the withdrawal, but Google indicated there was no agreement between the companies.
i am going back to BB
By copying Apple's well-established business process of suing their competitors for trademark and patent infringement, Samsung is clearly guilty of infringement.
(sound of recursive cranial implosion here)
Well, just an idea, but maybe other users of said chip licensed the patent? (Something particularly likely given the amount of cross licensing that goes on.)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Except that Samsung had internal documents that stated how they wanted to copy the iPhone. I think that's where they made the big mistake here.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Before the iPhone, the mobile phone industry was still a patent thicket minefield. Lots of established companies had patents on various parts of what made the whole system work. Standards weren't dead then. Nobody was insane enough to launch the first nuclear weapon. Mutually assured destruction only works if all the parties are rational.
Enter Apple.
Apple thinks if you're going to start firing nuclear weapons, you might as well fire lots of them all at once.
Remember Steve Jobs say he would spend all of Apple's (eg, stockholders) money to destroy Android. Does this sound like a rational statement from a rational person? Really? Destroy Apple in order to destroy Android? Wow.
Apple's lawsuits aren't about rectangles with round corners. They're not about bouncy scrolling. They're not about any other particular details being claimed. Apple's lawsuits are about competition. Steve Jobs dreamed of having a new Bill Gates like monopoly. Pesky competitors think they should be able to compete. Apple believes that the entire mobile smartphone business is God's gift to Apple by divine right. Even established existing players who've made mobile phones for decades should get out and leave the entire market to Apple.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Depends on how the LTE patents are licensed. Hell, Apple's got a bunch of LTE patents, both original (e.g., nano-SIM) and bought (Nortel). Whether or not they apply to Samsung products is quetionable (they too are probably FRAND patents, and Samsung is probably compensating Apple in some way for them...).
FRAND patent lawsuits are tricky - and even the EU is investigating FRAND patent abuse by Motorola, and the like, because if this continues, it means no one can make an LTE phone, which makes the whole exercise moot. (FYI - the patents Apple sued Samsung for are NOT FRAND, while Samsung counter-sued using FRAND).
It's why there was great opposition to letting Apple's patents into the standard - remember getting your patents into standards (and thus FRAND) is a huge political ploy - with a lot of "I'll vote for you if you vote for me" kinda backroom deals. With Apple being the 800lb giant (money wise anyhow), wanting to shut Apple out is good business sense (cha-ching windfall from Apple). With Apple's patent in, and even though Apple's making the FRAND terms "free", that still counts at the who-owes-whom table when it comes to deciding how the patents are licensed.
Apple has been and always will be insane in their thinking. "Think different" really meant "do as your told"
Anyone who buys Apple products is a cunt. Don't be a cunt.
Apple Fanboy: I love my phone.
Android Fanboy: I hate your phone.
So if the Apple Fanboy is a cunt....
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
It's not like Apple has ever copied. Or like Steve Jobs proudly boasting about copying. It's the fact that someone dared to compete in what Apple wanted to be a total monopoly market. Nobody else should be able to build smartphones. That is what this is about. Not the trivia of rounded corner rectangles or bouncy scrolling. It's about Apple wanting to have a monopoly market with monopoly pricing. That doesn't work if smartphones become a commodity.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Only now it's mutually assured destruction via patent law.
The only winners are lawyers, judges and monopolies.
The rest of us suffer the wounds and sores of stagnating technology and lack of innovation.
I knew I should have studied to be lawyer.
Sigh.
We need some brave and fatalistic politicians to finally revamp the entire patent system. When someone was able to patent a PB&J with the crusts cut off, for me, that's when this whole thing jumped the shark.
Anyone who buys Apple products is a cunt. Don't be a cunt.
Apple Fanboy: I love my phone.
Android Fanboy: You paid how much for that phone that does half of what mine does?
So if the Apple Fanboy is a cunt then the Android Fanboy is Captain Obvious
FTFY, oh, and an ellipsis only has three dots but now I'm just getting picky.
It's hard not to be on Samsung's side in this. Apple sued first over some totally ridiculous crap.
They are both far from being saints, that's a given. Both phones suck*, but Apple definitely crossed the line of sanity here.
* They both suck *as phones*, when compared to "dumb" phones. My old Philips had 3 weeks of battery life with my usage pattern and it took two pushes of a button (including unlocking) to call pretty much everybody I care about.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
is an empty comments section.
Did yo read those "internal documents"? They are just expert telling design team where they went wrong with examples of good design (from Apple). It reads like "Our UI: buttons are not aligned. Good UI (yes, it's Apple's, so?): buttons are aligned. What to do: align those fucking buttons, you morons"
Saying it's "how they wanted to copy iPhone" is funny considering the advice on the slide in the article says "Differentiate icons from iPhone".
TL;DR: Take care not to steal specifics, but let's steal all common design sense from Apple!
Samsung obviously disagrees with you and is willing to go to court over it. They don't believe any licence they gave Qualcomm covers Apple. Given Samsung's usual rate is "% of final product price", I find it hard to believe any license they gave Qualcomm would cover third parties too.
As for why you'd buy Qualcomm's chips - it's because they're a pre-made component. Why do you think? A business sourcing components from a supplier doesn't assume that any product they make using said components will suddenly become licensed. Why would you?
What you've read is obviously wrong, or you've taken away a completely false impression from it. Either way, no, it's entirely possible that other users of Qualcomm's chips have negotiated patent licenses, and Apple has done its usual thing of "holding out for a better deal" (or simply ignoring patents held by rivals, in the hope it gets another dumbass Jury foreman on its side.)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
If Samsung's claims are legit then they should pursue this as fully as possible.
Apple has created a hostile market that inhibits innovation by suing anybody with anything that resembles Apple's IP. While Samsung obviously lifted some design cues from iPhone, overall I don't think anything Samsung has done would make an Apple iPhone user switch over to a Samsung Android phone, so I thought the Apple lawsuit was petty and vindictive. Apple is doing a better job of moving people to Android then Samsung is capable of. Apple has to realize that there are at least 3 to 1 people that hate Apple and everything they do which means that Android will ALWAYS be a larger platform than Apple, just like Windows was always a larger platform than Mac. Apple never cared when Microsoft lifted UI designs, so why should they care when Samsung does the same thing.
So, if Samsung has valid claims then Apple should get a taste of their own medicine. Banning iPhone 5 sales, even for a few days during the holiday season would be a big blow to Apple, and if Samsung's claims are found justified and Apple has also infringed on other people's patents, then maybe people will wake up and see Apple for what they are.
However I have the distinct feeling that Samsung's claims are thin and flimsy and more out of spite and pettiness. I fully support legal action where it's justified, but the arguments between two petulant parties does nobody any good.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
There's also a problem with that. Apple doesn't license their design patents, and will pretty much only license others when under duress.
So internal documents telling Samsung what to copy, and Google itself telling Samsung "you're copying too much, stop" is simply things you disregard?
copying isn't a crime in itself. apple copied the idea of the smartphone, the touchscreen, gestures, tablet computers, portable audio devices ... the list goes on.
the fact that google warned them doesn't implicate them in a crime. if i tell you not to cross the street because that man is going to rob you, and you do it anyway and get robbed, that doesn't make the robber innocent ... it just means you have poor judgement / don't listen to advice.
I wonder how this patent swarm compares to the sewing machine patent swarm. Probably worse because the sewing machine compaines never thought about patenting things like rounded corners.
Opera/9.80 (Android 3.2; Linux; Opera Tablet/ADR-1207201819; U; en) Presto/2.10.254 Version/12.00
Samsung had an agreement with Qualcomm that Qualcomm's license to Samsung's patents covered Qualcomm's customers. So Apple used Qualcomm's chips under the understanding that they were fully licensed. But apparently desperate because of Apple's many claims related to Samsung's copying, Samsung attempted to cancel Qualcomm's license as it pertains to Apple. This is of doubtful legality, as licensing of standards-essential patents is supposed to be nondiscriminatory. But it gives Samsung some basis for countersuit, which probably helps them with investors, at least for the moment.
Android Fanboy: You paid how much for that phone that does half of what mine does?
iPhone user: Actually I jailbroke it, so I have a far higher quality of real apps and I can do anything you can in terms of configuration or customization.
Sorry Captain Obvious, you met your match when Captain Reality showed up.
So, you're saying that in order to get your apple phone to 'work right', you had to 'break' it.? Just askin'...
Signed, Captain Obvious' successor.
Sure they say that, and then they can go to the store and buy a better android phone from a different manufacturer and reuse all their accessories, get back their purchased apps, etc...
Licensing, as you say. Okay. Then Apple should license one of Samsung's patents that covers, and I kid you not, how smartphone displays change when music is being played.
It's a good thing Apple and Samsung are both focusing on what is truly important. Kudos to the US Patent and Trademark office for creating a system that helps companies to focus their efforts on what is important.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Apple doesn't see Windows phone as a threat to their market share.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Don't confuse them with facts and reason. The meme is that Samsung made their phones as identical as they could manage. Any differences between their phones and the iPhone was their inability to match Apples pure awesome.
Besides, no one had anything like rounded corners or icons aligned to a grid or buttons that align neatly before Apple. If they did then they didn't "put them all together" in to the "perfect package". Yes, even their supposedly awful chicklet keyboards and hockey-puck mice were superior to all other alternatives -- the perfect design that give the user the perfect experience.
All those designs that came before the iPhone that look, well, like an iPhone are all lies created by time-traveling fandroids. Apple invented all that is good. Bow your head and thank Steve Jobs for blessing you with the opportunity to buy a holy iPhone, in all it's glory. Praise be!
Required reading for internet skeptics
It's not that ideas are crap, it's ridiculous that they got a patent for what amounted to letting the first year engineer design the outside of the device. Things with rectangular screens are going to be rectangular with rounded corners.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
My old Philips had 3 weeks of battery life with my usage pattern and it took two pushes of a button (including unlocking) to call pretty much everybody I care about.
They could make the battery life longer if they wanted, but it would make the phone bigger and heavier. Apple chooses the lowest battery life people need, and put whatever size battery it takes to hit that number (if you want more battery life, there are very nice cases with built in batteries). In my opinion, your old Philips device would be better if it needed charging every night. Imagine how much thinner and lighter it would have been? Is it really that hard to plug it in when you get home?
Yep. With the phone I had before, which I had to charge everyday, I used to forget it every other day and was left *without* a phone every other day. I just don't want to think about it everyday. If I had some sort of wireless charging station at home, that authomatically starts charging, even if the phone is in your pocket then yes, I wouldn't worry.
The best thing though was that if I had to go somewhere for a weekend or even longer, I didn't even bother to take the charger with me.
And your two pushes of a button including unlocking sounds unlikely to me.
OK, it wasn't just a push. It was a long press to unlock, long press to speed dial. Still pretty optimal.
All my old phones required two pushes just to unlock, and then a long press on a button (or some similar shortcut) to call someone. With my iPhone, I don't even have to unlock it. I just hold the button down and say the person's name, and it calls them.
Well, I *really* don't want to talk to my phone. Especially saying aloud the names of the people I'm calling. Yeah, I know I'm old fashioned. My old "dumb" phone, had this feature too BTW, so there is nothing new about it. I just never used it.
May Peace Prevail On Earth