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Why Ultrabooks Are Falling Well Short of Intel's Targets

nk497 writes "When Paul Otellini announced Ultrabooks last year, he predicted they would grab 40% of the laptop market by this year. One analyst firm has said Ultrabooks will only make up 5% of the market this year, slashing its own sales predictions from 22m this year to 10.3m. However, IHS iSuppli said that Ultrabooks have a chance at success if manufacturers get prices down between $600 to $700 — a discount of as much as $400 on the average selling price of the devices — and they could still grab a third of the laptop market by 2016."

82 of 513 comments (clear)

  1. iSuppli ignores recent history by Bilestoad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Funny that Apple sell so many retina MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs when they're the most expensive machines you can buy in those form factors. Could it be that a race to the bottom, cutting corners to reduce costs, ISN'T what people want? What happened with Netbooks again?

    1. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by nesfreak64 · · Score: 2

      Price being a big one also. The Macbook Air sells well, but it's also an Apple machine, people expect to pay highly for it. The last notebook fad was the netbook, an inexpensive, but still fully functional laptop. Ultrabooks are high priced, and their one big feature is being light and thin. With tablets and smartphones (sadly) taking off, is most people going to shell out $800+ for something expensive like an ultrabook?

    2. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by MrEricSir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Funny that Apple sell so many retina MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs when they're the most expensive machines you can buy in those form factors

      Nope. Not even close.

      When I was shopping for an ultrabook, I found the MacBook Air was quite competitively priced. I wasn't terribly impressed with the competition either -- the Samsung Series 7, for example, is not only more expensive for the same specs, but it's made of plastic!

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    3. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by MrEricSir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      only apple can massivly overprice there hardware and get away with it

      Great, so you can't read or spell. Thanks for adding such valuable insight to the discussion.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    4. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 2

      ZenBook is your nearest competitor to the MacBook Air. It's worth going for the Air for its trackpad, ZenBook's is frustratingly inferior.

      MacBook Pro (and retina version) and the Mac Pro are competitive for the money too. iMacs are a steal, especially with their IPS screens.

    5. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't say they "sell so many" MacBook Pros... Apple is, after all, about 12% of the market in PCs sold (and they have iMacs, Minis, etc.) They did enjoy a bump this year while everyone else declined... (not much of one, but a bump nonetheless.)

      http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/24/apple-reports-disappointing-mac-sales-despite-retina-macbook-release-4-million-units-sold-in-q3-2012/

      It seems everyone's facing a crunch. Apple's margins are so high, I doubt they notice. But, this brings up a question... why is the decline in their Mac lineup continuing when it peaked a few years back? I don't know the answer to that. As for netbooks... I like my netbook, but then again, I put Linux on it and upped the RAM (and got a nicer, larger battery)... it works like a champ. Microsoft really poisoned the netbook realm with their artificial restrictions on XP equipped netbooks (only 1 MB of RAM, etc.) I also think the "bandwangoneers" of netbook makers really just saturated the market. Before the netbook, companies were claiming you couldn't make a cheap laptop... Of course Larry Ellison (when he was trying to sell thin clients) famously quipped that there was no way a PC would break the $500 price point. :)

      Ultrabooks are a solution looking for a problem. The demographic who will pay that much for a laptop already bleed Apple grey. The rest of us think it's overpriced hype. :)

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
    6. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by loosescrews · · Score: 2

      I really think that this might be part of it. Most people who want to buy a laptop go to a big electronics store. Those stores usually sell two types of computers. Crappy consumer laptops and Macs. The casing of the Macs is usually built from more expensive materials and manufactured to tighter tolerances giving them a higher quality feel. Sure they cost a lot more, and the user may not be able to do everything they want with it when they get it home, but the first impression in the store is what matters.

      The problem isn't that high quality non-Apple computers don't exist. HP and Lenovo both even make nice business ultrabooks under their Elitebook and Thinkpad lines respectively. The problem is that these high-quality products aren't sold at the big electronics store where the consumer went.

      Another issue is that even if the hardware is great, a ton of crapware can make even a faster computer with an SSD painfully slow. Apple typically installs less crapware on their computers. I know many of us consider iTunes to be crapware, but some of the software that mainstream computer manufacturers install is much worse. Some business laptops ship without any crapware, and most ship with a lot less. My local Best Buy doesn't sell a single computer that I would use without wiping the hard drive first.

      I think that Apple's recent rise in market share has shown that the mainstream computer manufacturers have no clue what consumers want.

    7. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by FauxReal · · Score: 2

      I agree, I was convinced to shell out the cash for the first time in 2009 after always owning PCs (and a couple free Ataris & 1 free Mac in the 90s).It was definitely more expensive than comparable Win laptops. But I had a good job and low expenses. What got me was that it had a metal case, the multi touch track pad is awesome and it was a reasonably powerful computer. Also, I dj in nightclubs using Serato which happens to be more stable in OS X (it started on the Linux platform but I suppose they switched due to OS market share). I currently dual boot it in Win7 (which I am using at the moment). I also got a small amount of RAM then installed my own after my warranty was up. If I had to gripe about anything at this point it's really mostly the price and sometimes I wanna mess with something that OS X just doesn't allow me to access, but the fact that it's based on BSD has remedied some of those issues.

    8. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by TENTH+SHOW+JAM · · Score: 2

      The other thing is grunt. People don't see the need.

      When I buy a device it is to do a range of tasks. I need a portable device to check Email, poke at websites, do some text editing, read books, play music, movies and the odd casual game. Nothing in this list is particularly arduous for most devices. In my static devices I will use them to Edit video, run multimedia libraries, typeset documents, and play more immersive games.

      An ultrabook has the CPU and graphics power to achieve the results for all my tasks, but lacks screen size and human interface devices. I am therefore better off with two devices. I am probably not alone with my list of requirements.

      --
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    9. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think that what he meant to suggest is that both products are overpriced, but that Samsung isn't going to be able to sell their products that way.

      I think what he meant to say was: "I hate Apple, do you like me now?"

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    10. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by pnot · · Score: 4, Informative

      When I was shopping for an ultrabook, I found the MacBook Air was quite competitively priced. I wasn't terribly impressed with the competition either -- the Samsung Series 7, for example, is not only more expensive for the same specs, but it's made of plastic!

      Not that I'm an expert, but as far as I can tell from some brief Googling, the Samsung Series 7 is:

      1. Made of metal not plastic,
      2. Not an ultrabook,
      3. Cheaper than the Air.

      Specs appear generally better than the Air since it's a "full" laptop rather than ultrabook. More memory, more pixels, faster CPU, 1TB HDD vs 128GB SSD on Air, and of course thicker and heavier.

      I'm basing this largely on specs here and here.

    11. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by Buminatrain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup let's see (you forgot the PC, Power PC processors)... G5 based Macs were discontinued in August of 2006, And Apple ceased supporting them with the release of Snow Leopard in August of 2009. But hey three years of life out of a multiple thousand dollar machine isn't bad!

      Let's also not even bring up the fact that OS X is nearing end of life, and who knows how Apple will handle it's successor. It also happens to be a bit of a clunker compared to many other modern *nix based OS's. Sure Aqua sitting on top of it gives you the impression of riding along in a Ferrari, until you pop the hood and see the small old diesel sitting in the engine compartment.

      But Hey a quick look at the "have useful lives longer" poster's profile reveals a pattern of pro-Apple, anti-MS, posts... including a rather extremely ignorant post about "anyone who has ever shopped at newegg.com", probably means that bringing up any sort of valid point that contradicts his own will probably be pointless.

    12. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are complaining about high-priced Apple hardware. Apple hardware used to be expensive 10 years ago, when it was still manufactured in the US. In those days, everyone complained about the high price.

      Nowadays, Apple hardware is competitively priced, and people complain that it is made in China, and they would be willing to pay an extra X% if it were built in the US. In general, these people are naive, "Buy Made USA" campaigns have been a failure since the 80s. It doesn't motivate people to buy.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't know how the Samsung Series 7 goes, but metal isn't always better. Apple makes their iPhones out of aluminium and glass because they're cool, sleek and sexy. My Nexus S is largely plastic, but is far, far more durable than my friends' iPhones. My phone once took a meter-long parabolic flight into tiles (damn dog). It's back came off and the battery popped out, but within 5 seconds it was as good as new. All but one of my iPhoner friends has had the screen replaced at least once from everyday knocks. One of them's gone through three.

      I like the nice, cold, heavy feel of an iPhone's premium construction materials as much as anyone, but premium's not always the same as practical.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    14. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There were lots of Windows machines sold right before Vista's launch that couldn't run it. But hey, three months life out of a computer isn't bad!

      Summary: you're cherry picking.

    15. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by jmottram08 · · Score: 2

      Are you joking? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/872800-REG/ASUS_UX31A_DB51_UX31A_DB51_Zenbook_Prime_13_3.html 1920 x 1080 Native Resolution, better than MBA, also cheaper.

    16. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by Marcika · · Score: 2

      Dude, a "high-end workstation" is a regular desktop PC, except at three times the price.
      That's what your parent comment was extolling on.

    17. Re:iSuppli ignores recent history by halcyon1234 · · Score: 2

      When I was shopping for an ultrabook, I found the MacBook Air was quite competitively priced. I wasn't terribly impressed with the competition either -- the Samsung Series 7, for example, is not only more expensive for the same specs, but it's made of plastic!

      The Series 9 isn't bad. I've had the 2012 version with the Ivy Bridge for a few months now. Aluminum case, matte screen, good keyboard, long battery life, thin, light. It is on the pricier side, though, $1300 CAD when I bought it (though it did come with a free XBox, the sale of which helped defer the cost). If Samsung ever dropped the price by about $200, and made it much easier to order in North America, I think they could take a huge chunk of Apple's sales.

  2. Ultrabook's biggest problem: by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

    Lack of on-machine storage.

    Most early ultrabooks only had at best 128 GB of SSD memory, which is kind of cutting it close after you load Windows 7 and Office 2010. Why do you think Apple chose to include over 500 GB of SSD memory on some of their new MacBook Pro models?

    But now, with SSD technology rapidly improving, I'd say within 18 months you will see "convertible" touchscreen Ultrabooks running Windows 8 Professional with 512 to 1024 GB SSD storage standard with the latest super-efficient Intel "Core" CPU's, and those will definitely be vastly better-selling.

    1. Re:Ultrabook's biggest problem: by camperdave · · Score: 4, Funny

      This week I installed Windows 7 Pro, Office 2010 Pro Plus, and a slew of other business software on a 40GB SSD with room to spare. Amazing what you can do without porn.

      This week I installed Windows 7 Pro, Office 2010 Pro Plus, and a slew of other business software on a 40GB SSD with room to spare. Amazing what being without porn can drive you to. [FTFY]

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  3. Re:The reason is simple. by AvitarX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd go as far as to say MacBook Air.

    If the price is the same, I'm going with the easy purchase, even if it's just to run Windows/Linux (though I suppose after-market Windows license messes the price some).

    They really need good screens though, as someone that wants to actually do work, I want higher res screens, I'm perfectly content to move my face closer to see the details, I want to read full pages in the height of a monitor, I really need at least 900px of height.

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  4. Re:The reason is simple. by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

    Apple : Orange :: iPad : Ultrabook.

  5. It's the price, stupid by alen · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm at the point that unless I get the same specs as apple for like half the price i will buy a Mac.

    All the crap pc makers lost my trust a long time ago

    I spent $1100 on a 13"Mbp last year and the closest pc counterpart was about $1000.

    1. Re:It's the price, stupid by anethema · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm in the same boat somewhat. I keep trying to switch, and KEEP getting burned.

      Decided I want a big slunker gaming computer. Bought the Asus G73 when it came out. Was working fairly well but within about 8 months it was having some issues, trackpad, screen etc. No problem, I'm used to the Apple support, Asus has a good rep, lets call.

      What a disappointment. My only option was to send the laptop in so they could diagnose and repair it at their leisure. Reports online say it often takes a month. This is my primary and sole computer. I tried explaining that but nothing they could do. I offered to buy a nicer warranty, or buy the parts myself and replace them and agree my warranty would henceforth be void. Nope! Send it in.

      I sold it for a steep discount to a buddy and bought a mac.

      Know what Apple does in this situation? "No problem sir, your new computer is in the mail. Simply take a time machine backup, wipe it, place old computer in the box the new one came in, rip the shipping label off, drop it off for free shipping back to us, and restore the backup. Have a nice day."

      It seems you cannot even BUY that kind of warranty from most PC makers. Some even seem to try to find excuses not to fix your device. Apple has even replaced my phone after I broke the screen. They said they normally don't but just this once they would.

      They may have a terrible corporate attitude but they are hard to get away from since most other aspects of owning their products is so positive.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    2. Re:It's the price, stupid by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2

      Well, last time I bought a PC (6 months ago) this was about the price factor : PCs of similar performances were half the price of the Apple product.

      If you want to recreate the experience of a nice overpriced computer in exchange of slick design while funding an unethical company, Sony should satisfy you. They are usually more expensive but a bit more relialable. And still well below the Apple price (in Japan at least)

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:It's the price, stupid by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      Corporations should learn from that: if you treat your customers like second class citizens because they're not "business" customers, they might get fed up with you and buy somewhere else.

  6. Re:I think I may know the problem... by hawguy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apparently, it's a trademarked Intel name, because the article referenced in the summary said:

    Devices such as HP's $579 Sleekbook - which runs AMD's chips, so can't be called an Ultrabook

    I always thought Ultrabook was a generic term for a more powerful netbook (or a notebook in a smaller formfactor), but apparently it's Intel specific.

  7. Re:The reason is simple. by binarylarry · · Score: 4, Informative

    Running linux on apple products is no longer an easy thing to do.

    Many of the products are a fucking bastard to get working well (much harder than similar PC products).

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  8. Re:The reason is simple. by binarylarry · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't think anyone is looking forward to Windows 8 outside Microsoft HQ.

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    Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
  9. Semi-Accurate article by Guppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hey Charlie, if you're on Slashdot, would you like to comment on your blistering excorication of Ultrabooks?

  10. It's too bad Intel killed netbooks for this. by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's a lot of netbook haters out there, and I understand why. Truth is they weren't the right thing for everyone.

    I found two great niches for them - children and physically active people on the go.

    First of all - children. The first netbook I every bought was one of the 7" eeePC's on that was on Woot.com with a 4GB card SSD. The SSD was so small the included OS couldn't even run its own updates out of the box. I put an ultra small version of Linux and SNES on it (came with a heftier Linux), stuck in a 32 GB SD card - instant portable movie and game machine for my daughter. A couple of years later I upgraded her to a 10" Acer similar to mine and my niece and nephew now have the 7" one. You can fit a lot of movies on a 32 GB SD card if you use the PSP or iPod preset in Handbrake.

    Second niche - myself. I bike places, as often as I can. I have a small backpack that's big enough to carry my bike tools, a netbook, and some accessories/other crap I need for my commute to work or just about anywhere else. I BMX a lot and I don't like to carry a bunch of extra garbage I don't need. For coffee shop Internet use - including work responsibilities when I'm consulting - every thing I have to do on the road can be done on my 10" Acer Aspire. I've had two chain related failures on my BMXes while this thing was in my backpack, I wound up tumbling down the road both time my little Aspire took the beating better than I did. Sure a tablet fills this niche for most people, but I like a keyboard and mouse. That being said if Google does come out with a Nexus 10 I'll probably get that and use my old mini Apple bluetooth keyboard on it.

    I drool over Ultrabooks - I really want one. Fact is they cost too damned much and they won't fit my physically active lifestyle - I would have to switch to a bigger backpack for more than about a 12" screen, maybe a bit bigger but I don't want to push it too much. Intel's greed - not the kind that motivated them to release Ultrabooks but the kind that made them strong arm manufactures into killing netbooks to do it - is a large part of why they aren't taking off well enough.

    If they stopped their excessive manipulation and gave control back to the manufacturers they may see a surge in Ultrabook sales.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  11. Re:I think I may know the problem... by AnalogDreams · · Score: 5, Informative

    That is correct. They have to have certain Intel processors in addition to meeting height, weight, battery and storage performance guidelines.

  12. Re:I think I may know the problem... by Golden_Rider · · Score: 2

    Apparently it's supposed to be a smallish laptop, with emphasis on performance(must have SSD, must have good battery life) and small size, which according to the "choose two out of three" rule means it obviously cannot be cheap. Which means that a "non-ultra" laptop with the same performance and a bit more weight/size costs around $600, while the ultrabook costs $1000.

    What they did not think of and what now causes the slow sales is that the price makes ultrabooks a LUXURY item. Most people will look at the ultrabook and think "well, it sure looks nice, but here I can get about the same performance at a couple hundred dollars less". Or, if they DO have the money, they will go buy a Macbook, because "Apple" still has higher bragging value than "Asus" or "Samsung".

  13. Re:I think I may know the problem... by Goaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's what happens when marketing people want to say "MacBook Air clone".

  14. Re:The reason is simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    when are people going to realize that virtualization is not the same as running linux on the hardware? There are many situations where you solution won't fix anything.

  15. Re:The reason is simple. by Cinder6 · · Score: 4, Informative

    They really need good screens though, as someone that wants to actually do work, I want higher res screens, I'm perfectly content to move my face closer to see the details, I want to read full pages in the height of a monitor, I really need at least 900px of height.

    Actually, the 13" MacBook Air does have 900px of height--it's 1440x900. Kind of interesting, because the 13" MBP is only 1280x800.

    --
    If you can't convince them, convict them.
  16. Re:The reason is simple. by XaXXon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't understand how the crappy pc manufacturers still haven't learned that just because Apple can do it doesn't mean they can try and make a shitty copy and actually sell it.

    They've keep trying.. tablets that flop, ultrabooks that flop, all-in-ones that flop..

    Over and over they make shitty copies of apple products, price them the same, and then are bewildered when they don't sell.

  17. Re:The reason is simple. by atlasdropperofworlds · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd say probably the Tablet. The MacBook air is typically considered an ultrabook, and they've been out for a long time. My understanding from talking to quite a few people is that they understand ultrabooks to be basically low-powered laptops for quite a bit more money, much like a more powerful netbook. I imagine those who really want to reduce weight that much just opt for a tablet. Laptops can be had that are more powerful and are reasonably light ( 6 or 7lbs) for a lot less money.

  18. Compare with a regular notebook... by jd659 · · Score: 2

    I had to get a laptop a couple of months ago when ultrabooks were getting all the attention (I was replacing my 13 inch laptop). For about $400 got a very nice Lenovo 14-inch laptop with Intel i5 and a DVD ROM. I really wanted a computer to be slimmer and didn't want a DVD drive, but couldn't find it unless I would go with some ultrabook which I seriously considered.

    The ultrabooks had:
    * Less processing power. In fact, there was no ultrabook at the time to match the power of the mobile i5 processor in a regular notebook.
    * Less video connectivity options
    * Fewer USB ports
    * Worse screen
    On a positive side, they were a tiny bit slimmer. Comparing that I could get a slightly thicker laptop without any of those issues for less than half of the price of ultrabook, so I went with a regular 14 inch notebook and installed SSD drive in it. It beats any ultrabook in terms of performance and connectivity and yes, for LESS THAN HALF of the price of ultrabook. No surprises here that they are not selling.

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  19. Re:The reason is simple. by atlasdropperofworlds · · Score: 4, Insightful

    VirtualBox, while I love the open source concept, isn't quite as generally stable as something like VMWare. Aside from that, what would be the point of having a OSX/Linux combo? Macports works well enough on OSX. Why not just save a bundle and get a standard laptop to put linux on if you don't need to run OSX software?

  20. Re:The reason is simple. by Type44Q · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's also hard to install a Yugo drivetrain in a BMW. But it doesn't really matter because, why would you want to?

    Terrible analogy, as it's well understood that the guts of a Macbook aren't necessarily any higher in quality than those of many typical namebrand PC laptops.

    Now, the bodyshell of a BMW compared to that of a Yugo... you might have been onto something, if you'd gone that route.

  21. Re:I already have a slow chunk of crap by DuranDuran · · Score: 2

    Fine if you're happy to lug 15.6" around with you. Me, I need my laptop accessible on my desk, the airline lounge and my airplane seat. And the kilos matter.

    --
    "You can justify anything by putting it in quotes, adding a famous name and making it a sig" - Albert Einstein
  22. Re:The reason is simple. by Annorax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You are completely correct.

    PC manufacturers are in a constant race to the bottom. They don't value their products, so neither do consumers.

  23. Re:I already have a slow chunk of crap by fafaforza · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > sure its not as slim or as light

    Well, umm, there you go. Small and light costs money. This has been the case for the past 15 years with laptops.

  24. Re:The reason is simple. by smash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This. The macbook air has a decent trackpad, keyboard and screen. You can get a decent keyboard and something close screen wise on a PC ultrabook but every trackpad I've used so far sucks.

    It also looks pretty.

    The PC Ultrabook is the same price. For me, its a no brainer. Even if I'm looking for a machine to run Windows on, I'd still buy a Macbook air rather than an Ultrabook PC.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  25. Re:I think I may know the problem... by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

    ... without the Evil.

  26. Re:The reason is simple. by mjwx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd go as far as to say MacBook Air.

    You'd be wrong.

    Mac's are still making less than 3% global sales. I'll get back to this in a moment, I would like to correct another error you made first.

    If the price is the same,

    They aren't.

    An Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A . for US$1049
    A "so called" Retina Macbook Air 13" for US$1139

    They both have the same processor, same amount of RAM, same GFX capability, same battery life (7h according to the manufacturer) et al.

    The difference is the "so called" Retina display is 1440x900 and the Zenbook has a 1920x1080, the Zenbook also has better speakers, and SD card port and standardised Micro HDMI ports.

    Now I'll get to why the Ultrabook (and Air) is not going gangbusters

    This is why.

    Look at the power of web/email machines under US$500. This is all that most users need. Ultrabooks really aren't for the common users. Businesses don't buy Apple or even Asus, they buy from the likes of HP, Lenovo or Dell because when your ring up Apple and say, "I want 300 computers delivered per week for the next 5 weeks" they'll laugh at you, but when you ring Dell and ask the same question they ask which day you want them delivered. Ultrabooks are twice the price of decent laptops and seeing as they meet the needs of most users, most users will pick the cheaper option.

    I'm probably buying my mum a laptop soon, She just wants to use it for email, internet shopping and farmville so I sure as hell wont be buying a A$2000 Macbook for that. Her eyes aren't so good so "Retina(R)" displays are useless. I'll look for the lightest 15" 1366x768 screen available under A$600.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  27. Re:I already have a slow chunk of crap by mjwx · · Score: 2

    sure its not as slim or as light, it doesnt have as much battery life, but shit, its cost 40 bucks on ebay, why would I want to spend a pile of money on a obsolete computer no matter how sexy it was?

    Seriously? 900 bucks for a 13 inch dell ultrabook? I got a 15.6 inch 2.5ghz i5 with twice the ram and a TB hard drive for 499$ at the dell refurb outlet for my mediocre work computer, and it has one scratch across the windows sticker on the bottom.

    This.

    Ultrabooks are not for everyone. Most people will buy a NEW i5 with a 500 GB spinning HDD for US$500 ish from their local box retailer.

    Only people looking for something specific will look outside this range. To elaborate I bought an laptop for traveling last year, because I'd be doing some gaming on it what I needed was a laptop that was light, had a powerful GFX, good battery life, DVD drive and a 14" screen. I ended up with a 14" Asus, 8GB RAM, Hybrid Nvidia 640M/Intel GMA. Using the intel GFX It'd get 9-10 hours on battery, using the Nvidia GFX it would play most games on med to high settings (battery life was about 5-6 hours though). This was only US$850, I spent the rest of my budget on a 256 GB SSD.

    People who do a lot of traveling will buy ultrabooks, but not people who just want a machine to pot around home with.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  28. Re:The reason is simple. by zaphod777 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was in the market for an Ultra Light laptop since I was tired of lugging mine around for 3 hours everyday. I have never been a huge Apple fan so I looked at the Asus ZenBook but it maxes out at 4GB of RAM, I looked at the new Lenovo carbon fiber ultra book but it was hundreds of dollars more expensive. I checked out a few other UltrBooks but they all just looked and felt cheap. When the new MacBook Air's came out I weighed the pro's and con's, sure the RAM is not replaceable but neither is the RAM on the ZenBook and the MBA can take 8GB. The HDD will eventually be upgradeable whenever a third party makes one and the battery is much more replaceable than the Retina MBP. The USB 3.0 supports SCSI over USB protocol and there are a number of other hardware advantages. Although I wanted to punch a hole in the wall when I had to buy a Thunderbolt cable for $50 0_o, there is no reason they should be that expensive but that is Apple pricing for you. Coming from Linux it took me a while to get used to OSX and its limitations but overall I am pretty happy with my purchase and would make it again. You can't find an UltraBook for that price with the same specs and build quality.

    --
    "Don't Panic!"
  29. Re:The reason is simple. by edelbrp · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Running linux on apple products is no longer an easy thing to do."

    I just stuck in a vanilla Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 (32-bit) on a USB flash stick on a rMBP for the first time and it booted right up. I've also used VirtualBox with Ubuntu for years (which is probably more practical/useful in most cases).

    Ubuntu is certainly easier and faster to run these days on a Mac than how I remember Yellowdog Linux was. (Ahh, those were the days.)

  30. Re:Why would anybody buy an Ultrabook? by Nerdfest · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They are nice machine. I would have bought one if I instead on a competing 'ultrabook' if they weren't behaving like they wanted to show Microsoft and Oracle how Evil is *really* done. Giving money to Apple these days is funding the end of open computing.

  31. Re:The reason is simple. by Nemyst · · Score: 2

    It all depends on where you look, but generally the same thing holds: cheap, good, fast, pick two.

    I mean, Asus' line of Zenbooks is downright sexy and works very well, but they're among the pricier ultrabooks or sometimes entirely leave the denotation because it's more convenient in terms of cost versus performance. Sony's Vaio Z is insane, but it's even more expensive than Macs. HP's Envy line (I own a first-gen 14") is more and more of a Macbook clone, with the latest versions being basically far more blatant than anything Samsung's ever produced, but this does mean they're generally well made with good components and a metal body.

    The same thing can be said about tablets, too. Some manufacturers like Asus ans Samsung are doing their best to offer competitive products, and that usually translates into a lot of sales and good publicity. Meanwhile, the more... half-hearted manufacturers like LG, Toshiba, Motorola, etc. seem to put as little work into their products as possible and they end up with something between mediocre and shitty.

    Just please don't put them all in the same basket, as some are genuinely good.

  32. Re:Price. by smash · · Score: 2

    and the trackpad works.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  33. Re:The reason is simple. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

    and it booted right up

    OK, that's the easy part. How about wifi, sleep, sound, hardware accelerated video, keyboard backlight, and retina resolution?

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  34. Re:I think I may know the problem... by niftydude · · Score: 2

    p>What they did not think of and what now causes the slow sales is that the price makes ultrabooks a LUXURY item

    The people I've been talking to who can afford ultrabooks have been avoiding them because of the SSD drive rather than the price. Max hard drive space on an ultrabook with SSD is 256 GB, which isn't enough for people who have gotten used to having 500 GB to 1 TB on their laptops.

    Having said that, I love my ASUS zenbook - especially when travelling.

    --
    You can never know everything, and part of what you do know will always be wrong. Perhaps even the most important part.
  35. Re:The reason is simple. by edelbrp · · Score: 4, Informative

    It was one of those quick 5-minute tests, but I'm willing to reboot and check some more things for giggles. I can tell you that audio worked, trackpad worked, keyboard, WiFi hardware was recognized but needed the firmware file downloaded and copied into place (been through that before with other Broadcom WiFi stuff), video wasn't horrible VGA res but I didn't try to up it. Let me reboot and post a reply in a few! :')

  36. Re:The reason is simple. by dbraden · · Score: 5, Informative

    A "so called" Retina Macbook Air 13"

    No need to imply that the Macbook Air 13" falsely claims to have a Retina Display. No one is saying it does. The only one that has that option is the 15" MacBook Pro.

  37. Re:The reason is simple. by edelbrp · · Score: 4, Informative

    Back but forgot to try hardwired ethernet, oh well. The Live Ubuntu works in a pinch, I would say, but I'd recommend using something like VirtualBox or installing on partition and taking the time to fiddle to get things tweaked out. No backlight on the keyboard and can't tell you about if the video was accelerated (probably not).

  38. Because they are targeting the wrong marke segment by pesho · · Score: 2

    As somebody who was just in the market for an ultrabook and ended up running away, let me tell you why the ultrabooks don't sell. The ultrabooks best but narrow market are people who are willing to pay a premium for a combination of good performance, light weight and long battery life. PC manufacturers want to sell a lot of ultrabooks, so they compromise an all three points and as a result loose in competition with their other offerings. Netbooks and tablets offer comparable or even better battery life for 3-4 times less money. Regular laptops offer significantly better performance for 30 to 50% less.

    I was looking for a ultrabook with 8GB RAM, 256SSD and no dedicated video card (the onboard intel 4000 chips are perfectly fine) for about $1600. How hard could it be? RAM is so cheap that shipping costs more than the chip and SSD prices have come down to a buck per GB.

    After couple of months of trying I gave up, bought myself a Lenovo X230, swapped the hard drive with 512GB SSD and brought the RAM to 16GB. The bill came to more that $1600 but I am happy with the result. I would have paid more if a PC maker would have bothered to offer a comparable system.

  39. Re:The reason is simple. by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

    You really think selling a device below cost (especially once you factor in reseller margins, shipping costs, etc) is a viable business model in the long run...?

  40. Re:The reason is simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every ThinkPad X1 Carbon has an anti-glare IPS display with a native resoltion of 1600x900. But you know, it's missing the Apple logo on the top cover.

    It's also about 50% more expensive than a comparable Air, at least here in Australia, and that extends to upgrades like increasing RAM from 4 to 8GB or increasing the HDD size. I'd prefer not to buy Apple out of principle but after comparing the latest Zenbooks, the X1 Carbon and the Airs it's the Airs that seem to have the fewest compromises for a 11-13" machine.

  41. Re:The reason is simple. by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

    Uh, you mean something like this?

    http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Air-13-Inch-Mid-2011-Battery/6359/1

    Remove some screws, and lift the battery out, done...? Is it really that difficult?

  42. Re:I think I may know the problem... by Locutus · · Score: 2

    netbooks using Intel chips and/or Microsoft software also had those limitations put on them. The difference is that netbooks started with GNU/Linux on them and the name was coined in the open. I should clarify something, those limitations were put on netbooks once Microsoft and Intel got their paws in on the market. Most likely they didn't want cheap hardware and software to eat into their profits and setting those limitations did a nice job at killing that market. Win for Microsoft and a win for Intel.

    The tablet sector is yet another attack vector against these two but so much more entrenched with Apple's iPad and ARM hardware. But they are still trying very hard. IMO

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  43. Re:The reason is simple. by knorthern+knight · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > I'm just waiting for netbooks to die. I've used netbooks on and off for 20 years.
    > They just wern't called that until recently, but last year's laptop was a netbook.

    There is a legitimate market for netbooks. Not everybody needs one as a desktop replacement or as a gaming machine; then again, not everybody needs a Mercedes. I went on a trip recently, and brought along a 3-year-old 11" netbook http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2347366,00.asp I used it for two things...
    1) cursory check of my email every day
    2) offloading pics from my camera's card onto disc (250 gig drive), and a backup copy onto a 16 gig USB key.

    A lightweight $300 netbook is perfectly sufficient for my needs in this situation. It's maxed out at 2 gigs ram, and is 32-bit-only. The Vista Home that came with it absolutely crawled. I run optimized Gentoo linux with ICEWM (no KDE or GNOME), and it's half-decent. A reverse-engineered opensource Poulsbo video driver for linux has been available in the main kernel since January, 2012, so I can get the full 1366x768 resolution. It'll keep up with Youtube 720p videos in "large-player" mode, but stutters in fullscreen. As for 1080... fuggedaboutit.

    For regular computing, I have a desktop machine with a 24 inch monitor.

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
  44. Re:The reason is simple. by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    Everything you mentioned could be done with a tablet, so long as you had a USB hub and you had one that would work as a USB host, not just a slave.

    But iPad runs video in native resolution without problems, better than 1080p, in full screen. Of course, it isn't cheap. I have two sub-$100 Android tablets on their way from China now. We'll see how they go.

  45. What in pete's name by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    did you do to Virtual Box to make it unstable. I do all the Linux development for my Firefox Plugin in a Virtualbox VM (which means lots and lots of flash and HTML5 video) and I've never once crashed it.

    Now, getting OSX into a VirtualBox takes an act of God, but then again you're not suppose to do that in the first place :P So not a fair comparison.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  46. Re:The reason is simple. by Type44Q · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder how many of the fanboys who modded me down have had to do a reflow on a Macbook logical board... :p

  47. Re:The reason is simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I wouldn't call the nexus 7 a flop. Me and millions of others like it.

    Helpful hint for you. When you have compound subjects including yourself, drop the 'and others' and see how it sounds. For example:

    "Me and millions of others like it." OK, drop the '... and others'

    "Me like it." Nope, sounds retarded...

    "I like it." Much better, so now lets put in the other subject...

    "I and millions of others like it." Getting closer... now to be technically correct, other subjects go before yourself...

    "Millions of others and I like it." There you go. Now you don't sound like a 2nd grade dropout!

  48. Re:The reason is simple. by zaphod777 · · Score: 2

    Retina MBP has the glued battery not the MBA

    --
    "Don't Panic!"
  49. Re:The reason is simple. by happymellon · · Score: 2

    Have they fixed the power sockets yet on any non-Mac lap/note/ultrabook? The first thing that goes on all my laptops have been the power socket where the weight of the plug pulls the socket away from the board and needs to be resoldered.

    Why would I buy a Windows laptop for the same price when I know the damn thing won't be able to charge after a couple of years?

  50. Intel thinks they can determine prices. by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative
    Here's the problem: "Ultrabooks first landed last year, as part of a $300m marketing campaign by Intel to ... push up margins for PC makers..." Intel doesn't have the power to determine prices any more. Intel and the old-line PC makers are desperately trying to stem the inevitable price decline. They're failing.

    Ordinary "netbooks" like the EeePC 1000 are quite competent computers for $275. How much computer do you need to carry around? I run Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, LTSpice and Autodesk 123D on mine. It will play video. What more do you need?

  51. Re:The reason is simple. by teh+dave · · Score: 2

    The MacBook Air doesn't have Gigabit Ethernet. When I want to move more than 10GB of stuff to my laptop, wireless doesn't cut it and neither does USB, even USB3 as firstly I actually need a spare drive to use and second I have to wait for the data to be transferred twice rather than once.

    Of course, the other thing you get with Apple's rubbish is that you have to use their bullshit overpriced adapters and converters to connect a display, whereas with a PC ultrabook you just plug your stuff straight in cos it uses standard HDMI connectors and you get an included adapter for VGA if it has that. And of course you don't get all the other standard PC features like card readers and swappable memory/HDD.

    Macbook Airs are really just overpowered thin clients rather than small laptops.

  52. Re:Who'd miss Linux on a MAC? by alci63 · · Score: 2

    The main reason I run Linux is because I want to use free software. Free as in Speech. I want to be able to get the source. I want to learn from others and understand. I don't want to rely on a big corporation to handle my data. I want freedom in a digital world. I'm not a consumer, I want to be an actor.

  53. Re:The reason is simple. by rtfa-troll · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Uhh, Linux ALWAYS takes tweeking to get working 100%, regardless of how standardized your components are.

    Simply not true, but that's the impression people get. Whenever I have bought a system which was dedicated to Linux everything has worked great. If you bought a PC and then complained that the OS/X install was difficult people would think you were crazy. If you bought an Amiga and then complained that getting Windows 7 working was difficult they would laugh in your face. For some reason, however, people continue to recommend running Linux on hardware which wasn't set up for it. That's fine for yourself if you are a hobbyist. It's not fine if you are telling other people what to do. I think this is probably the thing which does the most damage to the reputation of Linux overall.

    --
    =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  54. Re:Who'd miss Linux on a MAC? by unixisc · · Score: 2

    But then, why buy a Mac? There are a lot more cheaper PCs available, and even cheaper ARM based PCs, whose disadvantage is that they won't run Windows, but they will run Linux or BSD. So one can get one of those, load it up w/ Linux (increasing #distros are including ARM as well as x86 in their default offerings) and then be sure to have liberated software (since there ain't much closed native software there for ARM). Put one of the 'Libre-Linuxes' on it, such as Trisquel, and be off to the races.

  55. Re:Marketing by Kahlandad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They would have fixed it completely with a hippopotamus break-dancing on Saturn.

  56. Re:The reason is simple. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

    To make that parse correctly, you need:

    Apple? Orange::iPad:Ultrabook

    Though it's not clear why iPad is in the Orange namespace or what boolean Apple represents.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  57. Re:The reason is simple. by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 2

    *crosses fingers, toes ,eye, and any other cross-able body part* I hope that PC makers get with the program add offer laptops (and monitors) with high resolution displays. It is sad that my 3 year old laptop has a higher resolution then the newest one from the same company. The old laptop is 1920 X 1200. The same resolution as the IPS 24 inch monitor I have. Most "high res" laptop are 1920 X 1080. I called dell and hp to ask if they offered a new model laptop with 1920 X 1200 or higher resolution display. They did not when I called.

    wish list for laptops:
    let us be able to upgrade the video card. There a few models that had a video card that you could change back in the day. Now all the video cards are soldered on.
    Put out laptop models with the retina display resolution or higher resolution.

  58. Wow. by sootman · · Score: 2

    It's almost as if there's more to good design than meets the eye... as if Apple actually did some hard work before they introduced the MacBook Air four years ago, rather than just looking at a competitor's product and saying "Thin, silver, wedge-shaped... yeah, we can do that!" and popping out some piece of shit a few months later. And careful, strategic supply-chain planning and management doesn't enter into it at all.

    Nah... Apple's success is just due to a) marketing and b) legions of fanbois and style-obsessed sheeple. Yeah. Just keep telling yourself that.

    Remember when you were a kid and watched people who were good at stuff and it looked easy? And a grown-up told you "they're really good at it and they make it look easy"? Nope--all lies. If something looks easy, it is, and if they're successful, they're just lucky. No skill is needed at all to become a great artist, designer, surgeon, stunt cyclist, manager, president, juggler, programmer...

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  59. Re:The reason is simple. by jedidiah · · Score: 2

    You've got it backwards. Like always "geeky technical details" are lost on the Apple fashionistas.

    It is YOU as the Apple buyer that is bolting a BMW shell on top of a Yugo drive train.

    Don't kid yourself. Don't try to kid us either. We know better.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  60. Re:The reason is simple. by juventasone · · Score: 2

    Not certain who is right and wrong, but this was my source:

    http://www.zdnet.com/thinkpad-x1-carbon-able-macbook-air-competitor-review-7000002294/

  61. Re:The reason is simple. by cthulhu11 · · Score: 2

    I put Red Hat on a desktop system a handful of years ago. It was a neverending nightmare trying to get everything to work, and I gave up when CERT contacted me because it had been pwnd.