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Kurzweil: The Cloud Will Expand Human Brain Capacity

Nerval's Lobster writes "Futurist and author Ray Kurzweil predicts the cloud will eventually do more than store our emails or feed us streaming movies on demand: it's going to help expand our brain capacity beyond its current limits. In a question-and-answer session following a speech to the DEMO technology conference in Santa Clara, California last week, Kurzweil described the human brain as impressive but limited in its capacity to hold information. 'By the time we're even 20, we've filled it up,' he said, adding that the only way to add information after that point is to 'repurpose our neocortex to learn something new.' (Computerworld has posted up the full video of the talk.) The solution to overcoming the brain's limitations, he added, involves 'basically expanding our brains into the cloud.'"

45 of 267 comments (clear)

  1. With apologies to Michio Kaku by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ray Kurzweil is the biggest hack on the planet.

    1. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Funny

      One day, very soon, a chip in your head will instantaneously connect with The Singularity, which will transmit back images into your corneal implants which will show you why this is so. In the meantime, take it as The Received Word from the future.

    2. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Informative

      For interesting critiques on Kurzweil, you might...

      ... read Jaron Lanier, particularly his One Half of a Manifesto, where he makes a pretty compelling case that Kurzweil is a "cybernetic totalist" who's pretty much willing to throw away everything that makes human life worth living in order to prove that human nature is mechanistic and reducible to mere information.

      ... watch The Transcendent Man, a documentary on RK, which makes the pretty compelling case the Kurzweil is in fact obsessed with "the technological singularity" not because he has a rational basis for it to be, but because he's wracked with guilt for never having a good relationship with his father, and he's obsessed with the idea that the Singularity could not just prolong him forever, but resurrect his dead father as well. He's driven by the idea that death is abandonment or alienation and he's terrified of being abandoned, again.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    3. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by NEW22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is something kind of lame about taking a guy who has some interesting ideas, and performing some kind of hack psychoanalysis of him, and generating this air of "because this hack psychoanalysis does a good job of making him look crazy, obviously that discredits his ideas." "He doesn't have a rational basis for this, he's just wracked with guilt over his father" is the sleaziest kind of ad-hominem argument.

      As for Lanier's 12 year old essay, I'm not even sure that half of his "cybernetic totalist" beliefs are necessarily held by people intrigued by Singularity ideas, without even going into whether those beliefs are reasonable or not. It's not that I'm even convinced by the Singulatarians, but that so many people who aren't convinced make these weird statements like "He's pretty much willing to throw away everything that makes human life worth living" as if Kurzweil is some kind of Cyber-Stalinist, rather than a guy who is trying to take an idea as far as it can go to see if there is anything to it.

    4. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      I would say anyone who attempts to redefine "life" in terms suited to his personal needs is a sort of stalinist, yes. Kurzweil's ideas are unmistakably millennial and rife with historical imperative, just as Marx's ideas were. People like Marx and Ayn Rand are famous for "taking an idea as far as it can go." They're the ones who serve as examples of just how cheap and useless a mere "idea" is.

      I'm not sure if the fact that Lanier's essay is 12 years old is supposed to mean anything. That it's 12 years old and still relevant is a remarkable thing in this day and age.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    5. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by marcello_dl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You might also compare a university test from the early 90s, where internet were a luxury for the few, with a current test. Just by looking at it you can tell something.
      If the internet era seems to correlate with dumber people, I don't see how the cloud can completely reverse the trend.

      "but you will be integrated with a super system which will make you smarter stronger faster..."

      Yes, the system will be. You will be the disposable, remote controlled larvae on which it runs. Face it, you already stopped being considered a man, you are a human resource, your health spied.

      An internet based transparent society is possible, but the guys in charge don't like it at all, and are pushing for a 1984 style panopticon instead.

      So they win if we implement it, and they win if we oppose a strong influence of the internet.

      Kurzweil could be the kindest person on earth, but he is very useful for this because his vision either scares you or enslaves you. So they promote him all over the media.

      "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets". I'd consider this as a possibility.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    6. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 2

      Totally agreed. You can always find probable psychosis in a person. React to something, evidence that it's driving you. Don't react to it, evidence that you're suppressing it. It's one of many reasons why arguing against a person rather than what the person says is such a bad idea. Myself, I don't buy into what Kurzweil is selling. But I still say it's horrible to attack him rather than his position.

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
    7. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      "in order to prove that human nature is mechanistic and reducible to mere information."

      But what if Kurzweil is *right* in that claim? Lanier is doing what so many philsophers do: Defending the 'magic' in mankind, without considering that the magic he defends may not exist at all.

    8. Re:With apologies to Michio Kaku by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2

      I, for at least the last decade, have already been weighing information on the value of storing it locally in my head (memorization) vs the ability to quickly look it up with Google or other internet service. A large portion of my knowledge now is pointers to details and vague summaries of what the knowledge is or can help me do. Adding cloud is just making "The internet will expand human brain capacity" a more current buzzword complaint statement.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  2. Reasons to be hesitant around Kurzweil by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    1. Re:Reasons to be hesitant around Kurzweil by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Informative

      Kurzweil seems to be following the proud tradition of very sharp people who have illustrious careers which then provide them the freedom to go a bit off the rails...

      His speech and music synthesis stuff is solid. After he found nerd jesus and decided that he would live forever through the power of the internet...

    2. Re:Reasons to be hesitant around Kurzweil by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      Longevity vitamins. The vapid sensationalism of his writing is advertisement and subtle self-promotion. He is not a dreamer or great thinker, like Carl Sagan or Douglas Hofstader; merely a con man who tries to avoid being too transparent.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  3. Re:I don't know if I'd say "filled it up" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    No. This is a common myth. We do infact use pretty much all of our brains.

  4. Re:I don't know if I'd say "filled it up" by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

    The concept of 'a small percentage' is a misrepresentation—it's like saying we only use a small amount of a CPU's die in each instruction. The whole brain gets used, just not constantly.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  5. It must be the cloud, not a device by PhamNguyen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A PC or portable device wouldn't possibly work, it must be the cloud. Not because cloud is a buzzword.

    1. Re:It must be the cloud, not a device by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      If you want to expand your Redundant Array of Interdependent Neurons, a cloud seems appropriate enough...

    2. Re:It must be the cloud, not a device by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 2

      You can download a copy of Wikipedia to your PC, but nobody does.

  6. That tired old nonsense again by gweihir · · Score: 2

    While Kurzweil seems to be in urgent need of such an extension, so he may gain at least a bit of effective intelligence, that is baseless wishful thinking at its best. The cloud so far does not even perform on the level of local, dedicated hardware and it is uncertain whether it will eventually get there. Mental capacity enhancements? In your dreams.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  7. It already does. by Atzanteol · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It already does though. I don't need to memorize *everything* - now I only need to know how to find the answers I need. This allows me to work with a much smaller set of data and fetch that which I need from the cloud as needed.

    We don't need it built in though.

    --
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

    - Charles Darwin
    1. Re:It already does. by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't need to memorize *everything* - now I only need to know how to find the answers I need.

      That is not as easy as it sounds.

      First you need to know whether you are asking the right question and second you need to know whether or not you have found the right answer.

  8. Oblig by Cryacin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Someone's got their head in the clouds.

    --
    Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    1. Re:Oblig by DiamondGeezer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      According to Kurzweil, my brain filled up by 20, which means that at 47 I'm cannibalizing old skills in order to learn new ones. Last month I learned to memorize all of the Kings and Queens of England, all of the US Presidents and all of the British Prime Ministers. That must mean that in order to do that I must forget how to dress myself, how to stay continent, how to speak...

      You may have stopped learning a long time ago Ray, but I'm not even peaking.

      --
      Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
    2. Re:Oblig by rvw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      According to Kurzweil, my brain filled up by 20, which means that at 47 I'm cannibalizing old skills in order to learn new ones. Last month I learned to memorize all of the Kings and Queens of England, all of the US Presidents and all of the British Prime Ministers. That must mean that in order to do that I must forget how to dress myself, how to stay continent, how to speak...

      You may have stopped learning a long time ago Ray, but I'm not even peaking.

      You probably forgot what you remembered once. And yes, I mean in the sense that you forgot something in the first place, and - besides that - you probably don't know anymore that you once knew it or you just don't realise that you don't know it. Looking at myself, I was good in math in highschool. But don't ask me to do the exams again at this point. I simply forgot how to solve those problems. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't take long to pick it up again, but right now at this moment - I simply don't know much of it anymore.

    3. Re:Oblig by Vengeance · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, no, it's true. I learned how to home-brew beer this year, but paid for it by forgetting how to drive.

      --
      It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
    4. Re:Oblig by blackest_k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps Ray is simply expressing himself badly.

      Take the simple pocket calculator lets use it to multiply 2 numbers together say 8*7 = 56 now most of us would just do that in our heads but a slightly more complicated case say 113 * 58 and it becomes a more significant effort. Easy to do if you have a calculator or a piece of paper and a pen.

      I am bilingual to an extent, I can converse in English and Polish how ever if I use google translate I can form more complex sentences and frame idea's and concepts that my poor old brain would struggle to produce in Polish. Google Chrome will with an extension let me say the words in English and translate for me and even say the words for me too. It isn't perfect but one thing i do notice is that my brain also caches some of the words I don't recall or even ever learnt before, so actually my Polish knowledge increases as I use the "cloud" to enhance my abilities.

      Augmentation of the brain by the cloud, we are not the borg just yet but we do have access to the human collective more commonly known as the Internet. Is it so far away that I might wear an ear piece of some sort that listens to the voices around me and gives me the English translation. technically it could be done.
      how about an app that listens to the conversations around me and lets me highlight key words and fetch me related information?

      As an example this morning there was a conversation about the band Skunk Anansie googling this let me know they formed in 94 split up and reformed in 2009 also they released a video and new single three days ago.
      I was aware of them from the 90's but I had forgotten pretty much everything about them. might it be possible to gather this information fairly automatically? say with a small touch screen device that can listen to conversation and allow me to highlight words and bring up additional information.

      Is this the kind of thing that Ray is actually talking about? Arguably we are already augmenting our brains with the cloud as he puts it, We just don't call it that.

    5. Re:Oblig by Tarlus · · Score: 2

      "I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,'Forget everything you know about slipcovers.' So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were."

      -Mitch Hedberg

      --
      /* No Comment */
  9. Expansion human brain capabilities? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The word "Cloud" has become such an in word that all kinds of predictions, even those which makes no sense altogether, are dime a dozen these days.

    Does the human brain need "cloud" to expand its capabilities?

    Didn't we have pencil / paper all the past centuries?

    How about books and diaries and post-it notes?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Expansion human brain capabilities? by tsa · · Score: 2

      Indeed. What absolute nonsense from this Ray Kurzweil. "The Cloud" is becoming the "Turbo" of the 2010s.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    2. Re:Expansion human brain capabilities? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      One imagines that there might be some differences once we cook up an interface with latency approaching that of another region of the brain.

      We don't know enough to actually do anything outside of rough sampling or rather brutal nudging of the existing system; but that might be a solvable problem.

  10. Information, or raw data? by tqk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I believe Kurzweil is confused on the definitions of data vs. information. Information is data I've had time to digest and react to. If all you want to do is accumulate TBytes of raw data, yeah, the Cloud is fine for that. Whether you'll ever find the time to do anything with it all is another question.

    --
    "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    1. Re:Information, or raw data? by tqk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry, that is your very own made-up-on-the-spot definition of "information". You can't just redefine words in a way that nobody else does.

      From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:

          data
                  n 1: a collection of facts from which conclusions may be drawn;
                            "statistical data" [syn: {data}, {information}]

      From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (26 July 2010) [foldoc]:

          data
          raw data /day't*/ (Or "raw data")
                Numbers, {characters}, {images}, or other method of recording,
                in a form which can be assessed by a human or (especially)
                input into a {computer}, stored and {processed} there, or
                transmitted on some {digital channel}. Computers nearly
                always represent data in {binary}.

                Data on its own has no meaning, only when interpreted by some
                kind of {data processing system} does it take on meaning and
                become {information}.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  11. Obligatory XKCD by afgam28 · · Score: 4, Insightful
  12. Re:Hive-mind by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

    Humans have been doing it for thousands of years with writing already. External storage of information.

    Teh Internets is just bigger and faster. Next revolutionary step is offloaded thinking.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  13. Pedantic linear logic bs by ElitistWhiner · · Score: 3, Funny

    Game over. Computers won.

    The future is Human augmented computing!

  14. Everyone has pie in the sky sci-fi, who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here, I'll drop some meandering diatribe and see if anyone gives a damn.

    The work I do in AI primarily teaches me about myself and other large brained organisms. Much of what I've learned is that humans aren't special. Intelligence emerges naturally from any sufficiently complex interaction. The more complexity, the more intelligence is possible.

    Most of the transhumanists I've met or read seem rather presumptuous and chauvinistic. I don't believe humans are all that special. For instance: We can grow rat brain cells on a computer chip -- It exhibits some life-like properties, but no more so than were human brain cells or a digital neural network used instead. This experiment is just a short cut: A neural network for cheap. However, it's far from optimal since the organic brain on a chip dies, and all the training is lost -- an AI doesn't have these problems... The take away is that a neural network is a neural network -- The complexity of the neural network defines its level of awareness. It's the "human" part of "transhumanism" I take offense to, seems rather racist to me. :P

    To speak in terms of transforming the human condition is to place too much emphasis on our own race's importance. How can we evolve to be greater than humans if humans are most important? To me: Humans are simply the organisms with minds having the most complexity at this time on this planet. The evolution of the mind is not something unique to humans; It's a process that all life has been contributing to -- Even indirectly through competition.

    A sufficiently large mass -- or network -- of rat brain cells could surpass the complexity of a Human mind quite easily. Would we then be speaking of transverminists? I prefer Transorganic, Posthuman, or my official title that covers all systems with input feedback loops: Cyberneticist. Protip: AI, businesses, and brains are all cybernetic systems by definition.

    What we're all taking part in is really the Rise of Inorganic Life.

    Augmenting organic entities with non living parts is a step in the process, but at some point the organic components aren't required at all, and we've given life to the non living. The foundation of life is genetic code: RNA / DNA. Life as we know it occurred after the living genetic code took up residence in the non-living lipids to form the first cells. So, there you have it: Life has always been augmenting itself by incorporating non-living technology. The transhumanist seems just a little late to the game, if you ask me.

    Life used to just produce chemicals to digest nutrients externally, but complex life does this internally via eating. My point is that the food is a part of the organism -- can't live without it, eh? The line between one organism and the next is the abstraction layer of eating, but in the end it's all one eco-system that is alive. Each organism is simply a complex chemical reaction, chemical reactions are interactions of electrons between atoms. Another form of life could exist that still operates by way of complex electron interactions; It could even draw nutrients directly from the Sun instead of having to "eat" other lifeforms. Even plants eat dead things with their roots & leaves, but an inorganic life-form could be self sustaining -- a complete ecosystem in of itself. Such an entity could drift through space and extract all the energy and raw materials needed to sustain itself from nebulae.

    Cybernetic implants are merely another next step in evolution. Nature is simply doing what it always does, produce a smarter, more durable, more pervasive life form. Just as life originated in the sea and became more durable to live on land, then the air; Life is now evolving to live in space... Note: All stars consume their habitable zone (the zone where chemical complexity is possible) when they go red-dwarf or nova. Therefore, the path from sea to space is natural, not radical. An important goal post in evolution on

  15. Re:I don't know if I'd say "filled it up" by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

    That's the power of obscenely deep neural networks, for you.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  16. Futurist by Swarley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anybody else involuntarily swap "futurist" and "crackpot" in their minds whenever they read the term in a sentence? Especially one about Kurzweil?

    1. Re:Futurist by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      That's totally unfair. Not all futurists are crackpots.

      A sizable proportion of them are charlatans.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  17. Re:What is the Internet? by iluvcapra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Student worked at his computer day and night. He was so frustrated because there was so much to know. The Master asked "Why do you sit all day, in a dark room with only words?" The student said "I'm trying to transcend biological limitations!"

    At once he was enlightened.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  18. Brain prefers to be asynchronous by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 3, Informative
    The brain prefers to be asynchronous. Too much synchronicity leads to seizures and epilepsy, particularly when there is a "focus" or irritant which starts synchronized regular firing activity. This is the reason that (for some people) flashing visual displays with very bright contrast at a particular flicker rate can also lead to seizures: the consistent synchronized flashing leads to synchronous stimulation of the retina and the V1-part of the occipital lobe and on forward through the visual areas til it hits a recurrent area and a loop leads to continuing seizures even upon withdrawal from the stimulus.

    .

    Yes at night-time, certain rhythms are predominant, and yes some people say that rhythmic entrainment is part of the binding of phenomena and stimuli in the brain, but too much synchrony is a bad bad thing in the brain.

    I think that it can be said that there are upper and lower bounds on signal propagation times through the geometry of the brain and upper and lower bounds on the firing rates of different populations of neurons, and that large pools of certain populations firing simultaneously present as particular types of EEG signals in certain regions, but I don't think you can say that the brain has a clock rate like a digital synchronous circuit requires. The brain's more asynchronous.

  19. Re:I don't know if I'd say "filled it up" by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    Isn't it more like a bad Beowulf cluster, in that if one machine goes down another might pick up the slack - or it might not.

    So you get these people who've had a stroke and afterwards they can't recognize people's faces, but they can still tell cats and dogs apart.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  20. Re:I don't know if I'd say "filled it up" by mister_playboy · · Score: 2

    The "small percentage used" myth comes from early experiments on the brain, where they were looking for physical reactions to applied electrical impulses.

    Only a small section of the brain (the motor cortex) gives such reactions, and this info was twisted into the current myth via a game of telephone.

    --
    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
  21. Caching by kelwell · · Score: 2

    Everyone I know already does this. We keep thoughts and opinions and whatever is currently cached in our minds and use the internet to look up everything else. But we have been doing this for much longer than that. I have read a lot of the books in my library, though I do not have a good memory of where specific words are located on each page. This isn't really much of a problem because my memory stores things that are more pertinent to me such as what the book was about and whether or not I liked it. So this isn't really anything new. It's been there as long as we have possessed rudimentary writing skills or the ability to string beads on a thread. We're just doing it more effectively with our new technologies.

  22. Re:Bilingual means ... by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 2

    You can't really be a bit bilingual, any more than you can be quite pregnant, or fairly dead. Bilingual means you speak/write/read a language as well as your native one.

    That's a rather harsh definition. Even assuming you have exactly the same skill in both languages, as soon as you learn a new word in either language, you cease to be bilingual.