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The Great Meteor Grab

RocketAcademy writes "New regulations by the Federal government define asteroidal material to be an antiquity, like arrowheads and pottery, rather than a mineral — and, therefore, not subject to U.S. mining law or eligible for mining claims. At the moment, these regulations only apply to asteroidal materials that have fallen to Earth as meteorites. However, they create a precedent that could adversely affect the plans of companies such as Planetary Resources, who intend to mine asteroids in space."

26 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. Putting the cart before the horse. by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Talk about worrying about the wrong problems. Why worry about how this is regulated before anyone can even come close to doing it?

    First come up with a way to mine an asteroid, then you can worry about the legal semantics.

    1. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by SomePgmr · · Score: 5, Funny

      I guess the other side of that is, "Why come up with a way to mine an asteroid if the legal semantics won't allow you to mine it anyway?"

      I agree that it's probably not a huge issue that can't be ironed* out, though.

      * Yeah, I did that. Deal with it.

    2. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by Xylaan · · Score: 5, Informative
      From the article, however, the regulations that are being discussed are for meteorites on federal lands. From the article:

      Courts have long established that meteorites belong to the owner of the surface estate. Therefore, meteorites found on public lands are part of the BLM’s surface estate, belong to the federal government, and must be managed as natural resources in accordance with the FLPMA of 1976."

      In this case, I'm thinking that claiming that these changes will somehow apply to asteroids in space is a very long stretch. Especially since they don't apply to the significant volume of privately owned land in this country, let alone the rest of the world.

    3. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by Desler · · Score: 2

      Because this ruling has to do with meteorites on US government land not asteroids?

    4. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by Beerdood · · Score: 2

      I highly doubt that the U.S. or any entity can claim jurisdiction on the asteroid belt and any materials, or mining techniques there. Even if they did, this doesn't seem like something that can be enforced. Maybe with tariffs on goods coming from the asteroids? Even if there was, I'm sure there's plenty of other people willing to buy the goods if they don't like the U.S. rules

      --
      Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
    5. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Likewise, if we were up to our fucking necks in "antiquities", there'd probably be a lot less concern about preserving them.

      Watch what you say there, Mr. 4 digit UID. You're not getting any younger. You may want to be preserved a bit longer even if there are a lot of us baby boomers flopping around.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by slew · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, but when the US starts planting flags on more heavenly bodies, they may be able to define them as "Federal Land", subject to BLM regulation.

      Not likely, the US is a signator to the Outer Space Treaty...

      Article II
      Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

    7. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by Sean · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That will be ignored as soon as the capability to occupy celestial bodies exists.

    8. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by fox171171 · · Score: 2

      Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation

      Yeah, until it's practical to start doing it...

    9. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by tsotha · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Lately Congress seems to recognize no limits to its jurisdiction. If they can extradite people for violating US drug laws in other countries, extradite British bankers who never set foot in the US for violating US banking laws, arrest Canadians for running poker websites, and tax expats for ten years after citizenship is renounced, there really isn't any place in the universe in which US law doesn't apply. Assuming they have the muscle to enforce it, I guess. As an American I have no idea why other countries put up with this nonsense, but there it is.

    10. Re:Putting the cart before the horse. by mysidia · · Score: 2

      That will be ignored as soon as the capability to occupy celestial bodies exists.

      In the US, probably not, treaties are the supreme law of the land, as indicated in the constitution. A signed treaty is tantamount to a constitutional amendment, and authorizes the legislature to enforce the treaty, but not to "ignore it"

      Even laws passed by congress cannot override the text of a treaty,

      Because the courts have a policy of interpreting any law passed by congress in a manner so that it complies with the signed treaties, or declaring the conflicting law null and void.

      It would be necessary for the treaty to be officially rescinded first.

  2. Don't worry about it by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The well-funded asteroid-miners will be able to buy the politicians and get the rules changed before they launch and call it a cost of doing business.

    The not as well funded ones... well, it wouldn't be the first time lack of excess capital to pay lawyers or lobbyists stopped a project before it started.

    Besides, if only the US has this law, then companies will just launch under other nations' flags and sell the minerals to countries that don't have a problem with mining asteroids.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Don't worry about it by timeOday · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Poorly-funded space asteroid miners? Like a miner 49'er with a rented mule and a pickaxe, right? But in space?

      As usual there is nothing here beyond an angst-ridden blog post about how some law might someday be (mis) applied. (Next up: Will Shariah Law take over the UN!??? Oops, we already did that one today.)

      I am more interested in how this applied in the case of large meteors that leave large deposits of valuable minerals in the earth's crust. These are not little objects you can walk away with, but rather, large areas rich in minerals due to (usually) prehistoric impacts that are already productively mined. It seems less of a stretch that somebody would abuse this meteor law to exploit public lands by showing the minerals there were "originally" from an asteroid, since the minerals can be extracted at a profit (sans sci-fi).

    2. Re:Don't worry about it by deimtee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The implication is in landing what you mined from the asteroid.
      Large scale metal mining and retrieval is likely to use very large, roughly formed, vaguely aerodynamic bodies with cheap re-entry shields. Basically, form the metal into a plane shape, whack a shield on the front and drop it in a desert. Scrap it for the metal in it. Any valuable metals you put in the centre, if the wingtips burn off a bit, so what. :)
      The problem comes when the thing misses your couple of square miles of desert, and the BLM says they now own your multimegabucks worth of rare metals.

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
  3. Talk about crying wolf by Nebulo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article makes a huge logical leap: that US laws governing items on federal lands somehow apply to items that are not on federal lands (for example, the asteroid belt). This is akin to saying that US antiquity laws would prevent a US citizen from prospecting for fossils in, say, Canada. What a load of baloney. The author is trying to conflate and confuse two issues (mining in space and prospecting on US federal lands) which are utterly unrelated.

    Nebulo

  4. Damn it all! by badford · · Score: 2

    I just built an autonomous spaceship and 3 asteroid mining robots. Wish they would give us a heads up every once in a while.

    --
    -badford
  5. Words have meanings by 0racle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I doubt it's a problem. An Asteroid is not a Meteorite.

    "A meteorite is a natural object originating in outer space that survives impact with the Earth's surface" - Wikipedia - Meteorite

    So unless someone plans on mining an asteroid by slamming it into the planet, they probably don't have to deal with laws pertaining to meteorites. There is also the fact that US law does not extend to the Asteroid Belt.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    1. Re:Words have meanings by cheesecake23 · · Score: 2

      There is also the fact that US law does not extend to the Asteroid Belt.

      For now, yes. But who knows where Assange will seek asylum next?

  6. Total crap -- /. summary is wrong (stunning!) by GodInHell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The attached articles are talking about regulations for metorites found on the surface of federal land. Last time I checked (1) asteroids aren't metorites until they fall out of the sky[1]; (2) asteroids in space aren't found on the surface of federal lands; and (3) the U.S. Gov't has no jurisdiction out where thar be asteroids.

    Total fail.

    1. "A meteorite is a natural object originating in outer space that survives impact with the Earth's surface." Wiki source.

    1. Re:Total crap -- /. summary is wrong (stunning!) by GodInHell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Specifically: the "precedent" here is actually very old that valuable minerals found on the unburdened (i.e. not covered in dirt) parts of land belong to the owner of that property. These regulations are just clarifying that /yes/ meteorites are valuable minerals - when found on the surface of federal lands they belong to the federal government and you can't just take them because you want to. Also, you cannot just go into public lands and take a fencepost because you think it'd make a nice addition to your yard.

    2. Re:Total crap -- /. summary is wrong (stunning!) by jfengel · · Score: 2

      Over large swaths of land, the US government has leased the right to dig up whatever minerals they find there. It doesn't apply to fenceposts, but it does apply to rocks.

      The ruling here is that the meteorites aren't included in that. Yes, they're minerals, but for this purpose they're also part of the national heritage. So we're going to treat them in the same category as other heritage items, i.e. ancient artifacts. These aren't artifacts, but they're saying they're going to treat them according to the rules that govern artifacts, and for the same reason: that wasn't the intention of leasing the mineral rights.

  7. Re:laws in space ? by Desler · · Score: 2

    No one is making any such claim of jurisdiction. You fell for a trollbait story submission. This was about meteorites on Earth not mining asteroids.

  8. US jurisdiction in space by Max+Threshold · · Score: 2
    "If asteroidal materials that have fallen to Earth are not minerals, it stands to reason that asteroidal materials in space are not minerals, either."

    Only as far as it stands to reason that the US can claim jurisdiction in space.

  9. Re:WTF by slew · · Score: 2

    This is totally off topic, but under the Outer Space Treaty, mining is not a prohibited activity, but if you read closer, you don't get to escape all jurisdiction by simply going into space. You are still under the jurisdiction of the place where you launched from.

    Article VIII

    A State Party to the Treaty on whose registry an object launched into outer space is carried shall retain jurisdiction and control over such object, and over any personnel thereof, while in outer space or on a celestial body.

  10. I've said it before and I'll say it again by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 2

    The best way to make a successful business these days is to get stuck in and BE SUCCESSFUL long before the legislation catches up with you.

    The recent Banking-and-Finance Charlie Foxtrot proves that if you make ENOUGH money The Government will drop their pants to support you no matter what you do (ie no matter how immoral and unethical your actions may have been).

    If you WAIT for the legislation first, said laws will have been funded by lobbyists of EXISTING INTERESTS supporting their own outdated business models.

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  11. It may surprise many americans by stkris · · Score: 2

    But the US of A does not own space. So anything there is up for grabs. USA may have laws and restrictions on what happens to meteorites brought back to their country but there are other countries who would welcome the minerals.