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Uber Gives Up On New York Taxi Service
An anonymous reader writes "Uber, the startup behind a mobile app for connecting transportation services with people who need rides, has halted its efforts to partner with New York cab drivers. They've been fighting an uphill battle against regulators, who have warned drivers that they could face fines or loss of license if they worked with Uber. The company's CEO wrote, 'Demand far out-stripped supply, making you feel pretty lucky when you got a yellow from your iPhone. We did the best we could to get more yellows on the road but New York's TLC (Taxi and Limousine Commission) put up obstacles and roadblocks in order to squash the effort around e-hail, which they privately have said is legal under the rules. We'll bite our tongues and keep our frustration here to ourselves.'"
Update: 10/17 00:48 GMT by S : Here's TLC's perspective, in the words of Commissioner David Yassky: "In recent months, as e-hail apps have emerged, TLC has undertaken serious diligence and is moving toward rule changes that will open the market to app developers and other innovators. Those changes cannot legally take place until our existing exclusive contracts expire in February. We are committed to making it as easy as possible to get a safe, legal ride in a New York City taxi, and are excited to see how emerging technology can improve that process. Our taxis have always been on the cutting edge of technological innovation, from GPS systems to credit card readers."
NYC is the one place where I think that this isn't needed. All you can in NYC is hail a taxi or ride the subway.
Just a dude. Stuck in IT.
There's no efficiency improvement or human betterment that can't be completely destroyed by bureaucracy and greed.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
Missing me yet?
What bullshit. It's two sides of the same coin. It's just a different group of items to ban or a different group to oppress.
An officially sanctioned cab hailing app. For only $19.99/month you get unlimited cab hailing plus a 3% discount on all fares.
Small print: 5% surcharge for cabs hailed with our app.
Mother fuck you if you think we'll allow you to do something that may be perfectly legal if we can do the same and stuff our pockets.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
Ever noticed that these "liberal outposts" are where the vast majority of our commerce and business are done?
You wanna do business in my territory, buddy? You gotta give me a piece of da action, see?
I saw this on TV a few days ago:
http://tag-taxi.com/
The app seems rather cool. It's the same basic principle of using an app to get a taxi, except you also get integration with the taxi's own GPS so you know precisely where the taxi is while it's on its way. The entire process looks rather streamlined and I'll be curious to see whether this one will work. Response from Taxi Diamond (one of the largest taxi companies in Montreal) certainly sounds a lot more positive than NYC's taxi companies.
Hi. The opposite side of the coin is that you get crooked cabbies, people who blow smoke in your face or well, I can't really defend the soda ban in a way that isnt fat shaming but...
Still. You make it seem like there are no group net negatives to any of these activities.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
How adding more vehicles to overcrowded streets is an "efficiency improvement"
Uber isn't being allowed in because there are some pre-existing exclusive contracts that will last for a few more months. Are you proposing we just tear up any contract we don't like? Do you have the slightest goddamned inkling what that sort of precedent would do to business in this country?
Fucking anarchists. Like everyone else, they've got the world "figured out" by the time they're a teenager. Unlike everyone else, they don't grow out of it.
Nice in NYC. I have used Uber the last 3-4 times I've been in NYC to call a driver when I couldn't get a cab in short order (and/or it was raining). I was curious to see if this 'taxi' service worked...not surprised about the pushback. It is *far and away* the best thing out there if you travel a good deal. You get a nice car, a pleasant (typically charming) driver, and no money changes hands. Absolutely essential in SanFran.
You wanna bet Uber will be part of the next round of contracts? If so I hear a New York bridge is for sale, I think you would be very interested in it.
Bah, you beat me to the bigot bashing. It's really a shame that so many people are too ignorant to realize that it's not "democrat" vs. "republican" and has not been for over thirty years.
The AC OP didn't say "democrat" or "republican". And denigrating a political stance isn't bigotry in any case.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
I could provide a number of theories as to why this is.
For instance, people cede more power to those they feel will provide better for them. (Like it or not, this is exactly what voting is.)
A skilled confidence man (aka, a "con artist") can supply services, and silently obstruct competition so as to artificially inflate the apparent need for his services, while simultaneously degrading the quality of his service rendered.
He can do this, and people will adore him for it. (Just look at the fearless leadership of N. Korea.)
Flagrant liberalism is just a form of reverse lobbying. The government provides subsidized services and products to the public, who then becomes dependent upon them. The government does this through exclusivitiy deals with private enterprises and contractors, creating graft.
Ask yourself this: why is the stock exchange ONLY in new york? Given the global nature of stock trading, wouldn't a more decentralized ntwork, with trade centers clustered around other population centers make more logistical sense?
You know, like how Akamai manages to handle so much data, by having servers fucking everywhere.
It couldn't be because of exclusivity deals, and long lsting "partnerships" (graft) between wallstreet and NewYork, and the fed could it? No. Certainly not. The stock exchange people had absolutely no part in the rapid removal of Occupy. None whatsoever.
Here it is in a nut shell for you:
1) government wants people to stop detracting from their policies, and to blindly vote for them year after year.
2) they reverse-lobby through public programs, to offer vital services waaaaaaaay below market price.
3) they get industry on board, with twisted backroom deals that exclude the competition that would prevent the plan from working.
4) the government subsidizes their chosen partners, and legally bars competition from the market. They spend taxpayer money on maintaining this relationship, while their partners still charge for services. The suppliers still get paid as if they were charging fair market price, and often, way better through the other perks of the subsidy, like tax exemption.
5) people think they get a good deal, as since the government is supplying (financing) the services, they will surely be highly reliable. (Cough.)
6) in reality, removed from competative pressures, infrastructue deteriorates or languishes compared to real competition based systems.
7) big industries collect lots of money from these liberal spending policies in government, and aggregate there.
The NYC taxi system is a very clearcut example of graft in action, as is the subway system.
Want to see NYC shine again? Remove exclusivity from contracts. Watch unions shit gold bricks, and watch industries quake with fear as the gravy train derails for them, and they have to earn their money.
Even though the taxi contract is due for renewal/renegotiation, this guy's business plan goes against the symbiotic relationship between city and enterprise. It will *never* work.
Taxi Commissions everywhere don't like Uber. In DC recently, Uber has had to defend its practices because the DC Taxi Commission who is out to get rid of them. Why? You have to get a license to operate in DC and that means revenue for them.
So that's just in DC, where most of the "regulated" cabs are broken down piles of crap that usually don't have A/C in the summer and have tons of other issues.
Now, New York? well New York allows a monopoly on hired car services whether it be hired cars (limos) or Taxis. New York says it's to "regulate" theses business so they don't overcharge and so that the streets are not overrun by cabs, of course that would mean competition and drive down prices. What the city really wants to do is keep getting all those fees and regulations to keep coming at you. Let's see you apply, have to take a test then 80 hours of training then a medical test, then pee in a cup. All of that generates jobs and it's considered necessary to be allowed to drive in a New York Taxi with a hack license. Now if you want to own your own cab, that's more fun. If you want a medallion be prepared to pony up big time and all it does is make cab fares higher and squeeze the guy who's trying to make a living. Try a million dollars for a medallion. What that does is create a monopoly on service and New York likes that...
Oh and you have to have a medallion if you want to be able to pick up passengers in response to a street hail. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City
So, Uber comes along and wants to shake things up and make it easier for suppliers and consumers to link up? Do you think New York is going to allow this when it's so lucrative and bureaucratic all at the same time? Not in this life pal.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Can't you just as easily call a car service? I live in Brooklyn and work in Manhattan. I never take a yellow cab anywhere in Manhattan, I always ride the subway (or drive if I need a car for work.) If I'm in Brooklyn and I'm feeling lazy or just tired I call a car service. The other option would be to allow this app to contact a car service for you. Why does it need to hail a yellow cab?
It's clear he was speaking in general terms and you actually bolster his argument by pointing out that not one, but several, appear there.
The bigger question is, how the hell did one company get to create a monopoly on taxi service in a major city?
The free market doesn't work that way. What would happen is that some private equity firm would start a deal to sell new taxicabs to any schmuck who thinks he can make a living driving a cab. Once the contract is signed, the new owner/entrepreneur is locked in. If the market shows less demand for cabs, he can't quit. Well actually he can, but the payments continue. Then they foreclose on his cab, drive him nuts for the next few years with a deficiency judgment, and sell the cab to the next schmuck who didn't hear what happened to the first guy.
The free market is a great system as long as you keep your gonads out of the hands of the kleptcrats.
When you are dancing with wolves, never limp
First off, people need to know that being a legit cab in NYC costs a million bucks.
The referenced article argues that "hey it is a decent 5% return on your investment"... sounds like a typical wall street tout pumping a stock. A "5% return" on an investment wouldn't require you to work 8 hours a day to get it.
Based on complaints of availability, the denial to use modern apps, the spike in that graph of medallion licenses... something is going to "pop".
I have no idea what I am talking about. I live in California and get pissed off if the driveways to the acres-large parking lots I use are not conveniently aligned for my use...
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Update: 10/17 00:48 GMT by S : Here's TLC's perspective, in the words of Commissioner David Yassky: "In recent months, as e-hail apps have emerged, TLC has undertaken serious diligence and is moving toward rule changes that will open the market to app developers and other innovators. Those changes cannot legally take place until our developers get a system in place and we control all the profits, in February.
Technically you both are incorrect since there are no exchanges in NYC left. All US stock exchanges have primary locations in New Jersey (NYSE, Arca, NYSE MKT(ex AMEX) in Mahwah, BATS in Wheehawken, DirectEdge in Secaucus, Nasdaq in Carteret.) There are few not worth mentioning in Chicago. Option exchanges also all moved to New Jersey, last being CBOE this month. The only big player outside of NJ is CME in Aurora, IL.
As a side note, NYC and NY state sucks for exchange business because of state tax laws, expensive real estate leases, unionised workforce, and also by virtue of being fsking prime target for assorted nutjobs.
Morale: do not come with your guns blazing if you do not know the facts.
Land of the free, home of the brave.
Wow, that's a really nice business idea. Let's regulate it out of possibility.
I bet the next round of contract negotiations will be full of political wrangling, some corruption but is it possible Uber's going to be part of the next round of contracts? Maybe, if they don't whither and die on the vine between now and then.
Life's way more complicated than just saying that the status quo is the way it's always going to be. A lot of people, even people in power, aren't happy with the status quo. Yellow Cab's fucked up here and there and if the city of NY thinks it can get a better deal, sure, Uber's on the table.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Two years ago in Singapore, a text + address will get you a response with an accurate ETA and a cab number within a minute. I've never tried in New York, but hopefully they at least have something like this working?
Imagine for a moment a world without hypothetical situations...
Your country is circling the drain now. It won't be anarchists that implode it, it will be the bankers.
You will need the anarchists to reboot from the ashes, for those same bankers, lawyers and bureaucrats will be swinging from the lampposts.
Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
Taxis make the return trip empty, DOUBLING the traffic load for one ride
Thousands of Irish immigrants died so you could get an easy ride
Why don't you tell us why they moved to New Jersey: because it's NEXT DOOR to NYC.
I LOVE it that a medallion costs a MILLION DOLLARS
It means that the cab driver is a SERIOUS BUSINESS PERSON and he will treat me in a professional manner.
Ask yourself this: why is the stock exchange ONLY in new york? Given the global nature of stock trading, wouldn't a more decentralized ntwork, with trade centers clustered around other population centers make more logistical sense? You know, like how Akamai manages to handle so much data, by having servers fucking everywhere.
AND.....you're a fucking idiot. Do you know the first thing about distributed systems, or do you just enjoy mouthing off and feeling self-righteous? There are large issues in spreading systems out like that, that might not matter when you are distributing cat videos, but do matter when you are dealing with information that is highly volatile, latency matters, and even more than that, consistency matters. There isn't some magic genie that updates all of Akamai's server the microsecond something changes. There are latencies and it takes a while for servers to get in sync meaning 2 different people may not be acting on the same data. You can tighten the consistency requirements, but then your latency and performance go to shit.... And those are just the absolute basics of distributed systems. But yeah LIBERULS STEALLING MY STUFFS!
Monstar L
Environmentalists who want to limit the amount of Earth that people take up and "waste". Better to live cheek-by-jowl in tiny apartments connected by "mass transit" than to allow free-range humans to wander the world in their SUVs, dropping babies and plastic grocery bags at random, while spewing greenhouse gasses and burning Mother Gaia's black blood.
Or some such.
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
"Our taxis have always been on the cutting edge of technological innovation, from GPS systems to credit card readers." The cutting edge is what that used to be... If you were to be always on the cutting edge you'd have at least one example from the last decade perhaps?
Sadly, it doesn't. What it means is that the taxi driver is a sharecropper who struggles to make a living while most of the profits go to the rich medallion owner.
Bingo. Well, there's actually 3 types of medallions:
1: Standard Medallion. The right to use one of these is rented out to the drivers for their shift. The owner also owns the taxi company - car, servicing facilities, etc... Cost is over $1M at this point to purchase one at auction. It's basically an artificial good created by NYC
2: Owner/Operator Medallion: This is the 'for the small guy!!!' medallion. If I remember right, it's closer to $400k because under most circumstances the owner has to be the operator under this medallion(AND own the car, etc...). It's not allowed to be rented out. Very limited numbers compared to #1.
3: Green Medallion: Instead of driving a crown victorian*, you drive an escape hybrid. As these were the last increase in medallion numbers, the price difference quickly became the difference in price between a Escape and a Crown Vic. Given that it's the renter who pays for the gas, the owner doesn't care. Though I understand once they go 'green' they don't like going back - $4-5/gallon gas in a 30mpg vehicle vs a 10mpg one puts a lot of money in their pocket.
*Might of changed recently, don't know.
I don't read AC A human right
You know, I'm seeing artificial restrictions and make it more expensive restrictions.
If we're going to apply surcharges, how about we put the money towards a system to make NYC even more friendly to alternative transport? The subway system is a good start, but still too limited. It's good at moving relatively massive numbers of people to limited destinations.
Cabs, when they work right, are more or less direct A to B, when A or B might not be near(enough) to a subway station, or there might not be a train going relatively straight enough between the two, or the schedules don't match up, etc... Time is money, remember?
We either need to go old school and like a couple scifi books start putting moving walkways in(so walkers can get twice as far in a given amount of time), or PRT.
One idea I had was to have most/all buildings in the central area hooked up on the 3rd floor(or so) with moving walkways. If you figure that the average walking speed is 3mph and make the walkway operate at 3mph, then figure that an individual traveling will be on one 50% of the time, that's still a 50% increase in distance traveled within whatever distance/time they're willing to walk for.
If you figure that getting a NYC taxi will take an average of 5 minutes to catch/pay and it'll average 20 mph, in a half hour trip:
Plain walking: 1.5 miles.
Walkway assisted: 2.3 miles
Taxi: 6.7 miles(but it costs money)
Like anything, you don't have to get rid of Taxis, but if you reduce edge calls for them, like a 3 mile trip, they'll be happy because longer calls equal more money(on average) while still avoiding high amounts of congestion.
PRT, Personal Rapid Transit, would address the long way more - the idea is extremely light electrified elevated* rail, with off-line stations, that uses individually guided and propelled cars that hold 3-4 people.
The idea is that you get in, specify your destination, and it guides you there using the most direct/fastest route possible. Because it's electronically controlled and on a rail, the cars can be closer together than is safe for humans on pavement. Because it's non-stop, even if the route doesn't take you 'to the door' or has to travel a bit more to get there it's still going to 'tend' to be faster. It's independent of the road system, so it can take pressure off of there.
*Well it can also be ground level or even buried.
I don't read AC A human right
How it works is if most people use the train/subway/bus to travel about because they know that if they need to go to some place where the train/bus doesn't go to, a taxi can get them there in reasonable time and cost.
That's a very good observation, even if it's my understanding that a Taxi ride runs 10X as much as one on a train/bus. One can also observe that it can help reduce the perceived need for a personal vehicle because they tend to have huge trunks if somebody goes on a shopping trip and decides 'oops, too much to want to bother with on the subway/bus', or some such. Or the trip to the airport with luggage. It doesn't really matter.
I don't read AC A human right