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Ubuntu Isn't Becoming Less Open, Says Shuttleworth
sfcrazy writes "While the larger Ubuntu community was busy downloading, installing and enjoying the latest edition of Ubuntu yesterday, a post by Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth ruffled some feathers. He gave the impression that from now on only select members of the community will be involved in some development and it will be announced publicly only after completion. There was some criticism of this move, and Shuttleworth responded that they are actually opening up projects being developed internally by Canonical employees instead of closing currently open projects. He also made a new blog post clarifying his previous comments: 'What I offered to do, yesterday, spontaneously, is to invite members of the community in to the things we are working on as personal projects, before we are ready to share them. This would mean that there was even less of Ubuntu that was NOT shaped and polished by folk other than Canonical – a move that one would think would be well received. This would make Canonical even more transparent.'"
Huh? How does the 1-Click patent hurt Linux?
on Mint userland...
I upgraded to 12.10 last night and spent the morning with a non-functinal system. Disabling my externa monitor has stopped the UI from hanging. At the moment it looks like the window manager (or what passes for one these days) can't cope with multiple monitors, at least configured the way I use them (laptop with a large external monitor, laptop monitor configured to be geometrically below the external montitor). I noticed that windows on the laptop screen go into this mode where the window border pulses, as if something in the window manager is thrashing.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Said the Anonymous Coward.
Get your PostgreSQL here: http://www.commandprompt.com/
Before you mention a) your technical problem with 12.10 b) your disgust with unity c) your leet alternative of cinammon/openbox/awesome/i3/dwm/twm/tmux/screen/tty2, can we save those for the appropriate forums or articles? This article is about Ubuntu becoming more closed, not about unity specifically or otherwise.
sucks Amazon cock
So would I if they were going to pay money to support my business.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Does the term(iny) SPAM mean anything to you?
There has to be a way to make this statement more clearly. The less coupled with the NOT is too close to multiple negatives for my lightning fast reads. "This would mean that there was even less of Ubuntu that was NOT shaped and polished by folk other than Canonical â" a move that one would think would be well received."
20 characters max for the password? How will I use my favorite poems as passwords?
...to closed source software. And incestuous design methods. And to advertising money.
You are not less perfect than Lore
Ubuntu is not becoming more or less open or closed. It's always been as it is, the SABDFL's distro. Thus it was brown, now it is bruise coloured; thus it was Warty, now it is cool to find Amazon suggestions in searching for files and applications. Ubuntu's main problem is that Mark says things. He should just do what he does and have another person speak for Ubuntu who won't have to "correct misperceptions" because they won't actually know what Mark is doing and so can just say nice things.
My recent experience installing Ubuntu from a live USB stick was good. It's true, I can't stand Unity, but I just boot to it once then install kubuntu-desktop right away. This was on a brand new Ivy bridge machine, and everything just worked, including sound, 3D acceleration (of the lame itegrated 6 core GPU) and suspend. As opposed to the Debian live boot, which did not manage to bring up eth0. I love Debian and I use it on servers but this time Ubuntu solved my problem and Debian was just lagging too far behind.
I have whined about Ubuntu in the past, and it does have its warts, but the bottom line is, it's a damn slick package and that's not even considering the price: free.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Unity is now too slow to run inside VirtualBox, even with Hardware Acceleration and the Guest Additions
while
Things get marked 'notabug' and 'wontfix' in all sorts of bug trackers, all the time, by all sorts of developers. It's quite a leap from there to 'doesn't have any interest in feedback from the community'.
I'm replacing Ubuntu with Debian! ... oh wait, I already did that like a year ago. But I'm even more glad about that decision now.
After trying to use the beta, and now release, and after months of fighting Unity in the the prior versions: I got so fed up that I actually started creating my own OS from scratch! Well, from Assembly... Initially anyway.
First I made a Hex editor for RAM (in under 446 bytes) that can call into the edited memory. I wrote that to a USB drive, plugged it into a spare computer which is now Dev Machine Zero. After booting the MBR hex editor I created a "Save RAM Segment to Disk" by manually inputting binary op codes (machine code). Once I could save my work from RAM to disk, I began work on a simple 2 stage chaining boot loader -- It already lets me multi-boot and supports my extensible hash-based encryption, which I use for signing/decrypting the 2nd stage loader and primordial kernel. As soon as I'm done implementing keyed SHA3 I'll use it to support full drive encryption at boot. It been little over a week of evenings and my bootstrap loader now replaces GRUB on all my systems. I'm also about 1/4th of the way through my new assembler language (it's currently a subset of 8086 only); When it's done I'll extend the Assembler using itself to support macros and finally begin bootstrapping myself into a compiler for a higher level language, like C (or maybe a C-ish lang of my own design).
I sometimes do low level work on custom embedded systems programming, so I know a bit about OS development / design. I could use a cross compiler and/or a VM in a host OS, but I where's the fun in that? Besides, I can PROVE my bootstrap and compiler process didn't inject any back doors (as in Ken Thompson's Trusting Trust). There simply was no room for back-doors; I can "trust no one" because every last byte is accounted for.
It's been forever since I wrote any Real Mode code; Ah fond memories: Outputting MOD files to the PC speaker, low res 320x200 256c graphics, direct disk IO, 640K + "High Memory"... I'll almost be sad to make the switch into Protected Mode and write the device drivers & file systems.
Well, Thanks Ubuntu! I've had this idea for an Agent oriented OS kicking around for a while -- If it weren't for your usability failures pushing my frustrations over the edge I would still just be thinking, "Any idiot could do better than this!" instead of actually giving it a shot. Also, to all those "why re-invent the wheel" types: When's the last time you saw a wagon wheel on a sports car, eh?
I'm still a loyal NetBSD & Slackware luser, but screw Ubuntu. I still have to use Ubuntu for testing packaging of my other projects, but instead of fighting the UI or glitches now I just take a deep breath, get a fresh cup of coffee and add a new feature to the only OS developed with my usability in mind.
Actually, if it's amazon you'd be sucking quim. When you look at it that way it's not so bad, is it? Still prefer a BSD though...
After the numerous bungles with Unity, Amazon, and other decisions maybe Mark has learned something. Having outsiders inside would help reveal mistakes before they become mistakes. That would likely solve the publicity problems facing Ubuntu.
I learned the hard way that non-LTS Ubuntu releases are alpha software. LTS releases are beta software on release day. Wait for the .1 release of LTS and you've got a good stable system.
The biggest problem with installing non-LTS is that any bug reports are fixed in the NEXT version and they don't give a damn about the the version you're actually reporting from. THEY treat it as alpha, therefore you should not be surprised.
-Written from 12.04.1
Ubuntu is not for power users. It never has been. Ubuntu is for people like me- who want to use linux and most of its customisability without loosing out on stability*. For (non-hacking) work, for playing video games, for surfing the web: not for hacking, fixing bugs, coding or playing with fun options. If you want the latter, write your own (like you did), or use something that makes it easy.
Not everyone wants to make time to spend on configuring a new set-up. I don't want to learn all the notoriously complex quirks that X has. I don't want a window manager that I first have to change options in to avoid clipping of windows. I don't want to have to find and compile a driver to be able to use my network.
This is mostly based on experiences I had with arch: it was a very smooth experience, until I got to setting up a window manager. I spent half an hour frowning and reading the wiki, then figured I could be finishing work and do something else. And I know arch to have stellar documentation.
* and by stable I am here referring to the LTS releases, not all the half-yearly releases. They can be somewhat unstable. And yes, there is debian out there, but that is even less up to date than ubuntu is.
Show me the code!
You have every right to.
But you should also understand why many people find it unacceptable.
Actually I'm surprised by the lack of outrage from the open source community. Not regarding the ads themselves, but regarding the serious privacy issues and Canonical's/Shuttleworth's attitude.
http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/ubuntu-has-bigger-problem-its-amazon-blunder-203467
So...I understand if some of these practices are not typical for the open source development model. Like putting more emphasis on donations and sponsors, and having a closed core developer group.
But maybe these are just damn practical moves. Maybe the extra cash will help ironing out the horrible amount of bugs, and improve the performance and hardware support. Maybe having a controlled development team will help having a clearer focus on technology and design, without there being million APIs and UIs fighting for popularity. All good things for the Year of Linux on Desktop?
Is that a case of a noob comparing ubuntu with debian stable again?
Use debian testing or unstable.
Even power users want to have stuff that just work. So yes, ubuntu is not for content creator, more for consumers. The way content is pushed directly when people try to work is a testimony of that target, and that's the vast majority of the users IMHO, and that's what Mark target.
On the other hand Amazon supports DRM free music.In addition, they don't force a lame downloader application, I can use open source software to download my bought music.
The approach used with Ubuntu angers a lot of Linux and GPL fans because it's not in the spirit of the GPL. BSD folks accept that someone can use their code for whatever purposes including making money on closed source software. We're OK with this. From a view of the project's culture and licensing considerations, it doesn't make sense that ubuntu is a linux distro at all.
If you're a GPL person, I think you should be annoyed at what they've done. Ubuntu is clearly a business and meant to be monetized. That in itself isn't a problem as Redhat has been doing it for years. However, I can also point to countless things Redhat has donated to the community too. The only things Ubuntu has given me are a headache, a reason to start my BSD project and a reason to try Debian when I needed a linux distro at work.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
Vortex Cortex: For 1? I am IMPRESSED man... no joke/no sarcasm!
* LMAO - You're a crazy bastard... & I mean that in a good way!
(It's folks like yourself that "hang around" here on occasion & "grace us with your presence" that makes me keep reading forums here in articles... you never KNOW what you'll find, & often, it's very interesting! I found your post so in fact...)
APK
P.S.=> Just when you *think* personally that you're doing some "cool shit" on YOUR OWN part? You read a post like yours & say "Whoa, guess not, by way of comparison"...
... apk
I don't know if you've tried it, but I've been doing the same and then using xfce instead. It's not bad... more traditional, but it is very unfinished right now, lacking very basic functionality. It shows a lot of promise though, and I think it'll be a really great alternative in the near future. If you haven't already, I recommend trying it out. You can always kick back to KDE if you prefer that.
You're developping an OS because the UI had problems ?
If your coffee machine fails you start designing a nuclear power plant ?
And if your car is having tire problems you probably start building your own refinary...
If they're using Ubuntu, I think it's already settled, they're a noob.
Is that a case of a noob comparing ubuntu with debian stable again?
Far from it. OK, feel free to go ahead and demonstrate your leet skillz by making a live USB boot stick with Sid. Let me know when you've got your QA done.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
You have way too much time on your hand.
Not only Ubuntu, but also e.g. NVIDIA make the same mistake:
It's _us_, the geeks, that install and recommend software (and hardware) for all our friends, friends of friends and our companies.
I don't like Ubuntu anymore simply for this statement that they _want_ to abuse my friends brains for their advertisments, so the next 100 linux installations won't be Ubuntu anymore but probably plain stable Debian from now on. .. just like all the PCs I recommend to friends don't contain NVIDIA but integrated Intel graphics adaptors since quite some time now. .. same goes for Android over iOS as it is somewhat less locked down, LibreOffice over others, etc. etc. etc.
In the end it's my responsibility to recommend the best for my friends and customers, and this is how this turns out.
I see this argument from time to time.
Regardless of the merits of any system, if some OS enables a "noob" to do the same things as a "leet" and in less time, then in my opinion it is superior. Of course, horses for courses and all that kind of thing, but if you're using debian to do things that are easier to do in ubuntu, then you're just wasting effort.
This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
On a magazine article* quipped "Ubuntu seeks cash from Amazon ads" wich can't be linked because you hit a paywall but you can read because it graciously appears published on the web even months in advance, leave it to another instance to discuss the magazine, the article goes:
"As of the next version Ubuntu, searches will return results not only from the local filesystem, but will also point to results of searches on Amazon. Technically, this isn't so wildly different from what Unity already does: a search for "The Road to Serfdom" on our Ubuntu box suggest a documentary film about Friedrich Hayek on the BBC iPlayer, for example wich is pretty useful. But linking to Amazon raises questions about the motives of Ubuntus's parent company, Canonical" . Later "To those worried about privacy Shuttleworth wrote on his blog: "We are not telling Amazon what you are searching for. Your anonimity is preserved because we handle the query on your behalf. Don't trust us? Erm, we have root You do trust us with your data already"
. hear people talking wonders about "smart" phones and its features but nothin bout how little vicious snitches they can get set to and in their smartness (as well as their not so called smart cousins the supposedly general purpose computers) to constantly establish network traffic and exchange with a particular vendor who happens to have root access.
*linux format (lfx) 164 december 2012
PS: why if this is a techie site it doesn't have a ssl connection?.
One of the other commenters quoted Linus, "Talk is cheap, Show me the Code". I have that on my coffee mug right now :-)
Unfortunately most of my work is in machine code and although it works for me, it isn't well tested since that's not my main concern just yet. When I get to the point of having more stable code in a more readable form than raw op-codes or half-implemented ASM, then I'll be sure to release it. Until then, here's the raw memory bootable hex editor I mentioned: Hexabootable. This one has a couple more features and a Visual interface rather than my first EDLINE like input method; Although it fits in a 512 byte boot sector there's no room for a drive partition table (meh, those are really more of a reccomendation, not an essential rule). You should still be able to boot it from a drive via:
dd if=hexboot.img of=$YOUR_DRIVE
or using a VM (which you should use instead if you value your hardware).
I went through and heavily commented EVERYTHING, so even folks who don't know x86 assembler can follow along. There's 26 bytes left of space in the image, so when I have time I'll see about squeezing in the text input mode I've implemented in machine code on a live instance; Till then it's Hexadecimal all the way.
Happy Hacking!
You're developping an OS because the UI had problems ? If your coffee machine fails you start designing a nuclear power plant ? And if your car is having tire problems you probably start building your own refinary...
It was something I'd wanted to do for a while, and instead of just complaining I'm actually doing something about it now. Don't get me wrong, I can use any OS fine, but that doesn't mean that I won't be frustrated while doing so, and thinking of all the ways everything could be improved, if only they did it differently... UI issues with Ubuntu Unity was just the tipping point. Without them it may have been years before I got fed up enough to start a whole new OS -- I might have even been content with just making a new window manager (or improving XFCE), but the proverbial camel has now broken its back.
I have a sligtly different take on OSs inspired by shortcomings that most modern OSs have... Some things I want to do just aren't possible using Linux or BSD. Some things I want to do could be implemented in a POSIX OS, like these, but just aren't being done. For instance: Set up groups for capabilites, and run every program as its own user. So, you'd have Firefox, wget, IRC clients, etc in the "WAN" group, IRC, ThunderBird, etc in the "Identity" and "WAN" Groups, groups for managing different services, etc. Each program also gets its own group. This way, no program can read any other program's data (or your data) unless they have permission. ThunderBird can't access your IRC chat logs, the IRC client can't access your Internet History files, etc. If you wanted to give Firefox access to say, run say Steam clients: You'd add Firefox to the "Steam" group.
Apache is often configured to run as its own user -- Everything else needs to do this too, IMO. Without a policy to enforce this behavior in the distro or OS itself it just takes too much effort to keep re-configuring things this way. If the OS enforced such behavior natively then many other things become possible, like trusted Agents, fully sandboxed plugins, and being able to automatically query for capabilites regardless of the particular programs installed...
My way isn't for everyone, but it suits me. I'm a "Focus on the Solution, not on the Problem" sort of guy.