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Now That It's Here, Is There a Place For Windows RT?
concealment sends this quote from Ars:
"The argument back then was this: Windows on ARM would mean discarding the thing that makes Windows entrenched and important: Windows applications. Tablets need all-new applications, and if you're going to run all-new applications then you don't really need Windows. ... In the time it has taken Microsoft to bring Windows on ARM to market, ARM's once overwhelming battery life advantage has been erased. The ARM CPUs may still have a slight power use edge, but the difference will typically be dwarfed by the power consumption of the screen. The Intel processors, in turn, bring CPU performance that is probably best in class (or close to it), and most importantly of all the ability to run the full version of Windows 8 and existing Windows applications. The hardware could look identical to the user, but if it has Intel inside, the user experience will be quite different. ... With these constraints and limitations, it's hard to see who exactly Windows RT is for. I acknowledge that there are certainly some users who will be content to use the browser, mail app, and perhaps type the occasional letter in Word or balance their checkbook in Excel: people for whom the Windows Store's current gaps do not matter. But I think a much wider selection of users will be ill-served by Windows RT."
As a tablet OS, Windows 8 is actually pretty nice. It's just that it's being crammed down our throats outside of tablets that makes it a PITA.
As for RT vs. x86, I'd lean toward x86 unless there's a major price advantage to ARM. The Clovertrail chip looks to have good performance and battery life, so there's no massive technological reason to pick one over the other. Application compatibility is a nice win for x86 BUT.. the truth is you'll likely not want to run desktop applications on a tablet anyway.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
is it's rt distribution. Haven't tried it on a tablet but I am sure it's great for it. However, keep that crap away from my desktop where I need to get work done!
It has an active surface and digitizer, and it runs MS Office, which puts it light years ahead of the iPad in terms of productivity. Plus, it is an MS OS, which means that it probably comes with a lot of tools for IT managers to make it easier to deploy within an organization.
Sure, android might be better for nerds who want to hack their OS and the iOS might be better for the average Joe who wants to surf the web, but Windows RT and the MS Surface offer a much better choice than the iPad for corporations and people in academia. The superior keyboard dock, One Note, and Active digitizer put it light years ahead of the iPad for people who want to use it for note-taking.
I remember WindowsNT. What happened to WindowsOT, WindowsPT, and WindowsQT?
Silence is a state of mime.
Another in the seemingly endless torrent of stories about how Windows RT is imminently about to fail. Get back to me after xmas at the earliest. It is too soon too tell, all we know now is that a bunch of big name manufacturers are at least willing to give it a try.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
in other words, supported for a few years and then dropped when there's zero financial incentive to keep it going. It will be treated by developers as a dead-end, so there will never be compelling apps, which will sign the death-warrant.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
For me it's a non starter because you can't run existing Windows applications on it. Microsoft delivers a scaled down version of Office on it but it doesn't include Outlook. Apparently there is some sort of other email client on it. Why would I buy one of these things if I have to go out and buy new software for it? If I'm going to do that I might as well get an iPad or Android tablet. Those two also have a much, much bigger selection of titles in their respective app stores compared to MicroSoft.
I don't understand why the RT was released before the x86 model since RT seems to have a much more limited audience. Maybe there were some manufacturing delays with the x86 model? If I were going to buy one of the Surface tablets (and I'm not) I would go for the x86 model.
No.
It's great that Windows 8 might be a good tablet OS, but that doesn't change the fact that tablets have proven themselves to be over-hyped fad devices with no practical use for most people.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. There'll be a few people who'll respond to this describing their niche usage of a tablet, but they're in the minority. Most tablet purchasers got caught up in the hype, bought a tablet without thinking, and now they have yet another pointless device that they don't use. It sits there collecting dust.
For most people, it doesn't even take a month before the novelty wears off. I think this is exactly why, aside from Apple, we see basically no other company successfully selling tablets. Apple is a unique case. I suspect that many of its buyers are buying iPads as status symbols, rather than as a usable device. I'm not even sure if they should be considered tablet purchases. It's more akin to buying jewelry than it is to buying a computing device.
a system error has occurred
Did you even read it? The submitter was questioning the rationale for Windows RT to exist in the first place. If he was an MS shill, why wouldn't he instead make bloated claims about how great Windows on ARM is?
Let's be specific about it. The place for Windows RT is to occupy the void formerly filled by Windows CE, with similar success. A Windows that isn't really Windows. Just the thing to irritate the same sheeple who once raised Microsoft up to the dizzying heights of world's most valuable company.
Just a historical note apropo to nothing in particular: when Alaric I marched into Rome to sack it in 410 AD, much of the city had already reverted to swampland. The aquaducts had long since silted up and the sewers weren't working. What Romans remained were living in squalor. So much for former glory.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Windows RT will be right at home with people who have, until now, been okay with the fact that their Android and iOS tablets are not running a desktop class operating system. They just want the basic web and multimedia functionality.
The bigger question is this: How will Microsoft educate consumers about the difference between RT and 8; ARM and x86?
/* No Comment */
Microsoft. It's for Microsoft.
Do you see what I did there?
What struck me when I first heard that Windows RT will look like Windows 8 but won't run the same apps was that it'd be perfect for systems that traditionally run special purpose software on top of Windows. So as the title says, Kiosks, Point of Sale, and Control systems where they can trade on the fact that standard Windows vulnerabilities like viruses won't run on the ARM. - HEX
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
This isn't something that requires technical knowledge of, nor does it require a like or dislike for microsoft. The LAW says the answer is no: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
p. ...if you're going to run an OS on a device with a completely different input method that won't run your desktop applications, why does it need to look like your desktop?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Their loss. The devices are actually fine. I use android myself. Wouldn't touch that horseshit created by apple though (iTunes to copy music to my device? Seriously?).
Windows 8 Phone is supposed to have the same kernel as WinRT devices on ARM. If they can pull this off they will have it both ways: a huge desktop user base with tons of messy legacy and a sparkly new "walled garden" where they will have lots more control over the whole experience and what is allowed in. Writing for Metro mode is supposed to yield an app that will pretty much run on phones and tablets, without the fragmentation of Android devices/environments. Even if nobody else wants it on their tablets or desktops, at least one batch of Nokia phones will need it.
"Just the thing to irritate the same sheeple who once raised Microsoft up to the dizzying heights of world's most valuable company."
It was not the "sheeple" it was the total lack of any competition at the dawn of the personal computer and desktop era. At the time Apple might have offered a better product but their insistence on controlling the hardware made their products quite a bit more expensive than the MS products targeted at commodity hardware. And you can add up all the complaints against MS but it's dominance evidently allowed both the companies and the users to actually be productive. If MS products did not provide any value as it relates to providing functionality it would not have risen to the top to begin with. MS was fortunate to arrive on the scene when the major software companies were still clueless about the future of desktop computing. By the time they got a clue they were already in a deep hole. The early MS partnerships with IBM and even the Apple contractual agreements with Xerox gave away many favorable advantages to MS at the time because they did not take personal computing seriously and instead concentrated on the big Iron and mid-range market. Plus when people make an argument that MS stole all of it's technology they totally discount the fact that most of the technology MS acquired (and even Apple) was purchased from the companies and individuals who created the technology. Most of the companies and products that could have competed opted for cashing out by selling their technology so they could move on to something else. The same thing happens today and MS is not the only big company who purchases companies and technologies from 3rd parties. There are a lot of software start ups today who do what they do so they can sellout to the deep pocket corporations. That is their goal and it is not a bad business model. Most of them have no intention of actually getting into the advertising, sales, distribution, and customer support needed to compete with MS.
Microsoft requires all ARM devices implement SecureBoot with no way to turn it off. So, no, I have no place for RT.
Curse you, I've just lost an hour on wikipedia!
You are coming at this as someone who reads slashdot... People who come here are anything but causal users.
Most people aren't all that bright or know their butt from a hole in the wall when it comes to technology. The shear fact that they can share between their "awesome" Windows 8 desk top and their mobile app is something new and novel to them. Never mind there is enough integration for the iOS and Android platforms into Windows that is borderline seamless to people who know better. RT's ONLY chance for success is from these casual users because it will not come from the tech savvy or business community.
RT's ONLY chance for success is from these casual users because it will not come from the tech savvy or business community.
Perhaps that is true. However casual users are heavily influenced by educated, power users. In fact, casual users ask for a recommendation; they don't just rush to Fry's to buy whatever they can grab - not for $599, at least.
For example, my parents have an XP box (for legacy reasons.) They came to me with a need, and walked away with Nexus 7. Not only the price is reasonable and the OS - recent. I have another Android tablet, so if they have any issues with theirs I can advise over Skype. That's the same reason why MS Windows and MS Office proliferated like kudzu. Now MS finds themselves to be an outsider. It's not nice out there.
On the subject of integration, most people do not need to transfer documents from the tablet to the PC. Much of the target audience for tablets doesn't even have PC anymore. But if you want to, there are tons of services that specialize in exactly this (Dropbox, SkyDrive, all Google services.) There is very little to integrate. And if you are an audiophile with 100,000 audio files then chances are you are already on the iPod+iTunes needle. WinRT has no clearly defined audience, and MS doesn't seem to care to define it. There is not a single social group that MS can address and say "This device is for you!"
The biggest threat to Windows RT / Windows 8 is Microsoft's recent destruction of developer (that is, the money people at dev houses) confidence in Microsoft's ability to "lead" any kind of technology drive.
I got my Windows Phone 7 phone because I could return it just in time for the phone I wanted. It took me by surprise and I got quite attached to it. You have to unlearn some bad habbits from years of working with UIs that came from keyboard and mouse toting designers. And then, Oh My Gosh.
My big issue was lack of any apps: People seemed reticent to jump into this untested pool. It turns out, developers target Windows because of the userbase and not because they think Microsoft employees poop magical and adorable APIs that are so cute, cuddly and just outright gorgeous that you just HAVE to develop with them.
WP7 had no userbase and no cross-over beyond ... well beyond that it uses technologies that Microsoft had recently kinda poo-poohed like .NET. So yes! If you just blew a billion dollars on .NET, come to WP7 because that's about all it's useful for.
Developers started to hear Metro was influencing Windows 8, and there was a brief spike in app ports to WP7. There's a Garmin app, Yelp, and a handful of others.
Then W8/Windows RT were announced in a sort of arm flurrying of "don't worry about the money you've invested in what's on the market now because Windows 8 will make lots of money with all the new tech it's going to introduce". Because, yes, "new tech" doesn't impart the sense that OMG YOU'RE SAYING OUR WP7/METRO INVESTMENT IS A DEAD END?
So very few apps have matured into real Metro apps and the WP7 experience isn't everything it could be because the app store is just ... crappy.
Windows 8 - and thus Windows RT - is very risky looking waters. I know it's not important in the grand scheme of things, but imagine a million bucks in your pocket, a pen in your hand ready to sign it off and ... tell me that Microsoft -- MICROSOFT! -- futzing the name of their flagship UI redesign doesn't scream "EYES NOT ON THE BALL" as you evaluate the risks of committing resources to dedicated Windows-8-UI tech and development rather than simply making sure your existing userbase and Windows 8 adopters will be able to run app smoothly on the desktop...
IMHO: Windows 8 is the Vista/ME of this particular Windows phase-shift. And that's cool, but as it applies to phone/tablet, the OS immediately preceding it ALSO happens to be a Vista/ME.
-- A change is as good as a reboot.
Surface is going to be a train wreck, I believe. People who have no clue what the difference between ARM and x86 iterations (atom, core, etc) are going to be befuddled that their new Windows device can't run their other windows programs. Then the pro version will come out and people will spot Windows tablets running regular windows apps and be baffled why their surface can't do the same. Windows application developers will have to start deciding whether to target one CPU architecture or the other or both, meaning there will be two app eco systems out there for devices that look the same on the outside. Joe Computer User with his RT sees a new widget on his friends x86 surface and discovers he can't get it. Likewise, the same potentially for x86 users, where maybe a company makes an app that only targets ARM.
This will be a mess. Microsoft made their fortune based on backwards compatibility, and now they're throwing a consumer system out there that lacks that one thing that kept people coming back to them.
Yes, x86 surface seems interesting, but its not here yet. But the ARM version, I'm positive, we'll all look back at it in the same dustheap as the Zune and so many other things.
I can't imagine what Microsoft is thinking. Or, wait, I know what they're thinking - they're moving to emulate apple, rolling out their own hardware and aiming for as high of margins as possible. Really, what can the cost savings be for using ARM over Atom? Will those savings be worth the tons of confused customers they're about to create? I doubt it.
Somewhere in their organization, alarmbells should have been ringing this whole time.
I can't pretend to be interested even in the x86 version, being that outside the office I live a windows free lifestyle (Mac OS, iOS, Ubuntu and, now recently, IRIX). If it gets jailbroken and we can see a linux distro on it, I may get excited. And if some enterprising person manages to get Mac OS to run on the thing.... well, I could imagine retiring my macbook air if the keyboard was usable.
But back to the original thought that spawned this disjointed rant:
What in the world are they thinking? Do the few extra dollars saved by using ARM rather than Atom make sense at all, when most of their customers are going to be blithefully unaware of what a hobbled machine they're going to get? It's not like there are Microsoft Stores all over with cool kids at the genius bar waiting to explain the the RT version won't run a single one of the applications they're used to using, unless it's Microsoft Office.
A lot of people are going to be very disappointed. And not just at their new surfaces, i can imagine a lot of blame being cast at Windows 8 itself for "breaking" their applications. I mean, Windows 8 just comes out, here's Microsoft showcasing surface, one would only assume that surface is their flagship product to demonstrate how cool Windows 8 is.
I guess that'll make all of us happy. Again, unimaginable that Microsoft would do this. Balmer will be lucky to be there next year, I'll tell you that.
And Apple did both, then sued everyone for it.
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
The place for Windows RT is to occupy the void formerly filled by Windows CE
You misunderstand the role of Windows CE, which is still under active development (latest is Embedded Compact 7, with 8 following next year). WinCE is a real-time OS made for sat-navs and embedded devices, and also forms the core of WinPhone7. WinRT is up against the iPad and Android tablets, an entirely different market.
No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun