HTC Losing Ground Faster Than RIM or Nokia

zacharye writes "How bad is HTC's current tailspin? So bad it makes Nokia look like a growth company. HTC's handset volume declined by -43% in the autumn quarter vs. Nokia's -23% volume decline. This is very interesting because HTC is using Android, the world's most popular smartphone OS, that is powering 40% annualized growth among its vendors. Nokia is limping along with an unholy mix of the obsolete Symbian platform, the moribund S40 feature phone platform and a niche OS called Windows Phone."

Comments

Why is that "interesting"?

[Karlt1]

Android is not making money for anyone except for Samsung and the carriers.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for also LG, Huawai, ZTE, Sony, and many others. The only one i know that doesn't make any money for anyone is Windows Phone

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Threni]

And Google! Don't forget them!

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[compro01]

They were doing fine selling Android last year.

Then they got the brilliant idea that people don't want replaceable batteries or expandable storage and created the One line around that.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[DeTech]

And Kyocera!

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[SomePgmr]

Yeah, just occasionally, products do poorly because they're not the best products.

Crazy, I know! ;)

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[epyT-R]

Why's that? so that way there are 100 million starving children 10 years from now instead of 20 million? Your entire argument is a fallacy.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[aoteoroa]

While shopping for a new phone during the summer nearly every store tried to talk me out of HTC

I had researched extensively and found the HTC One V had the best camera on the market for a phone under $200 (with no contract), and was small in size (contrary to the current trend I prefer small phones) and had Android 4 out of the box.

I walked out of one store because the pushed samsung so hard, and out of another store since they no longer carried HTC. Only at the third store did I find the phone.

Incidentally this phone's camera is amazing if you're a photographer and like to tinker. It gives you true autofocus. Exposure control to plus or minus two stops, and a mode that brackets exposure (-1, 0, +1) and puts the three images together to give high contrast scenes beautifully smooth detail.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[LucidBeast]

How is Google making money out of Android?

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[richlv]

it's interesting because just some 6 months ago people were having htc as a poster child of why embracing winphone is good for nokia. no failure possible there, just look at htc !

meego was nokia's winning ticket. they traded it for another dose of "free" drugs.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

By having many more consumers subject to ubiquitous ads and tracking for their analytics platform...

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[fatphil]

Meego was fantasy bullshit. Maemo would have been their winning ticket if they hadn't changed everything repeatedly (look at the early mock-up preview Harmattan slides at the NDC - the final product was diametrically different), and jumped into bed with an 800lb gorilla who had no interest in what Nokia was doing. Then again, Nokia had such a huge range of problems I could write a whole book about them. My history with them doesn't go back long enough to know what it was like in the OSSO days, but I can tell you they were a train-wreck in the meego days.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[larry bagina]

It'll take a lot of ads to pay back the $12 billion spent on Motorola (and don't forget: they lost $500 million last quarter.). Hell, I doubt they've even made up the $300 million or so they spent on android itself, never mind the continual development.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[WillKemp]

I seriously considered the One X, but the lack of removable battery and storage put me off and i got the Galaxy S3 instead. It's a shame, because i'm sure the One X is a better phone in many ways.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sorry but features what you just told are even on ZTE Blade what is sub 100 dollar smartphone.

Autofocus
EV adjustment
Fake HDR (real HDR demands that screen is capable for it and) there are only few desktop displays at price of tens of thousands.)

Then there are year old android smartphones what has optical image stabilization for 2-3 EV, wireless charging and all kind other fancy stuff, for 250 bucks.

HTC makes good looking phones but should focus to bring vanilla andrioid phones.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Karlt1]

Sony:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/02/sony-loses-312m-in-last-quarter_n_1731696.html

Sony Loses $312m In Last Quarter On Weak Gaming And Mobile Sales

ZTE:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/10/15/zte-warns-of-upcoming-quarterly-and-9m-loss.aspx

ZTE Warns of Upcoming Losses

Huawai:

They don't report profits AFAIK.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Sir_Sri]

HTC is basically an example of why Windows phone might be good for nokia. If Nokia can't compete with samsung on android they need to do so elsewhere.

Nokia's problem was that they really didn't have compelling software for the future. That was clearly iOS, Android or Windows phone (and probably not all 3, and probably not anything else). They can't do iOS. So that left 'just another android maker' which, while certainly possible, didn't seem like a great strategy - and it hasn't worked well for HTC, or be the lead windows phones guys and get a boatload of money from microsoft.

The thing with being 'just another android maker' is that people can immediately jump ship if your product is even marginally worse than the competition, it's like first past the post voting the guy with 50% + 1 votes gets 100% of the power, well, if you look at the hardware Nokia has been releasing for windows phone, frankly, they're a generation behind the competition (at least). That's bad. Very bad. As an android maker they could be losing money like crazy *and* not getting a cheque from microsoft.

As it is, they made the long play gamble. If windows 8 takes off, especially if microsoft can pitch some sort of integrated microsoft entertainment experience that people can actually tangibly understand (and tied into xbl and business productivity etc.) they could be in the right place when the time comes. I'm not a fan of windows 8, but that doesn't mean the market as a whole will agree with me, and basically everyone may as well read tea leaves to find out if this is going to go well or not.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[MrHanky]

I've seen lots of reviews of the One X and One V, and while many have praised the cameras, the photos they've shown off have all had serious issues with over-saturated colours. Granted, over-saturated colours is what the iPhone 4 got all its praise for: it's eye-catching, even though distorted. My colleague bought a One X for the camera, and is very unhappy with it. Samsung's cameras are far superior.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[AliasMarlowe]

I seriously considered the One X, but the lack of removable battery and storage put me off and i got the Galaxy S3 instead. It's a shame, because i'm sure the One X is a better phone in many ways.

I went through exactly the same thought processes, and came to the same conclusion. The HTC One X with 32GB was about the same price as the Samsung Galaxy S3 with 16GB (the small price difference was not an issue). The HTC was rated as having a display at least as good as the Galaxy, but the HTC Sense interface was a minor put-off. The killer in my decision making was that the HTC has no SDHC card slot and is lumbered with an unreplaceable battery, while the Samsung has both SDHC and a replaceable battery. I bought the Samsung and a 32GB card, which together cost more than the HTC.

The other dumb thing HTC did was discontinue phones with keyboards. My daughter has a Desire Z, and probably won't replace it for a long time because there is nothing on the market to compete with it. If any phone were available with a good display and a keyboard, I'd probably have bought one, even if its price were higher than the Galaxy S3.

If anyone from HTC is reading this, they have a few things to take home and beat into whatever remains from their marketing department: (i) expandable storage is life or death for a phone, (ii) a replaceable battery is very very attractive, (iii) physical keyboards get customer loyalty.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Emetophobe]

Releasing 11 different models between April 2012 and July 2012 probably has something to do with it aswell: Source. That's what really killed HTC, releasing too many phones and not supporting any of them.

Two of my friends bought HTC phones a year ago, one bought the original HTC Evo, the other bought an HTC Evo 3D. Now both of them say they'll never purchase another HTC phone again. I was lucky, I almost bought the original HTC Evo when it came out but I ended up waiting and getting a Nexus S instead. Now I'm running official Jelly Bean while my buddies are forced to use custom firmware to get updates.

HTC did this to themselves.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[icebike]

I went through the same evaluation and looked at the fact that i had never even once swapped batteries in any phone I've ever owned.

I found a $50 external battery pack that can recharge the phone four times on a single 5 hour recharge. Then i found the phone gets 18 hours of run time on a single charge, so the number of times I would actually need the battery pack were vanishingly small.

So I dismissed all the swappable battery posers, bought the HTC One X, and it is the best phone I've ever seen.
Battery swapping is seldom necessary, and when you do need more power an external battery pack make way more sense. It has a lot of other uses.

HTC is on lean times because it doesn't have the marketing clout of Samsung. Not because their phones are inferior.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Emetophobe]

Samsung didn't kill HTC, HTC killed themselves.

When HTC came out with the original Evo they had arguable the best phone on the market. That success was short lived though. They started churning out dozens of phones and they didn't support any of them with updates. They burned their own customers and people turned elsewhere (mainly Samsung).

If they were smart they would've released 1-2 phones a year at most. The Evo was a decent phone, they could've made that their flagship with yearly updates. The new One X looked good aswell, but how many One X variants did they make? One X, One S, One XL, One V. They diluted their own brand.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't hear you! Android is the best thing ever and I don't understand why another company is dying!

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[alostpacket]

I believe they also dabbled in locked bootloaders which didn't help. While the root/rom enthusiast community is small, they are influential.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[stephanruby]

It's also interesting to note that this guy implies that HTC is only an Android platform, when in fact, if you just take look at HTCs' actual home page.

What comes front and center of that main page is their failed HTC Windows phones and their failed 'Beats Audio' music platform, with their Android phones being relegated to the right-side menu, and completely stripped out of all Android branding, or markings (as if it had been purposefully done that way).

So if you ask me, what's dragging down HTC is not the fact that they've stopped having replaceable battery covers, and stopped having sdcard slots, in one of their lines, it's more the fact that they've repeatedly launched and relaunched Windows Phones and 'Beats Audio' -- wasting all their efforts and money on these ventures, when in fact, they should just have focused on promoting their Android offerings with one or two focused messages (that people actually cared about).

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[subsoniq]

I won't disagree about issues with product strategy, but I do question the comment about the HTC Evo 3D not being a good phone. I got one as soon as they came out, and other than the lousy camera functionality (there's a good quarter second delay between pushing the button to take a picture and the picture actually being taken, which results in shaky or out of focus pictures) it''s been an excellent phone. Over a year later and there are no scratches or dings on it even though I don't use a case. It still performs very snappy even with Sprint's crapware that's loaded on it, and battery life is still very good (I usually charge every other day). It's one of the better smartphones I've ever owned.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Grishnakh]

(i) expandable storage is life or death for a phone, (ii) a replaceable battery is very very attractive,

There's some caveats here. The iPhone has never had these features, and it's always sold like hotcakes. Obviously, HTC looked at Apple, did a "monkey see monkey do", and decided they could reduce costs on this phone by copying Apple. What they failed to realize is that Apple's market is very different from their own, and that Android shoppers, unlike most Apple ones, actually care about these features. You're not going to get anywhere trying to sell Apple clones; people who like Apple stuff are going to buy the real thing. The key to success is differentiation; be the things that Apple isn't, and serve a different market of people who don't want Apple stuff and want something different and better in many ways. I love the fact that my HTC Sensation 4G has both a replaceable battery and expandable SDHC storage, and I don't care if it adds a measly 1mm to the phone's thickness.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[__aasehi2499]

The 'current' home page design could also be largely a result of the fact that Windows Phone 8 is launching right now....

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[AlphaWolf_HK]

In my opinion, HTC has dramatically fallen out of favor among the enthusiast community due to heavy lockdown and closed source drivers. This is in fact the reason I have sworn off ever buying another HTC phone again. That might be spilling over to the regular consumers.

In my case it has, because I've recommended to everybody that I have talked to android about to stay away from HTC.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[icebike]

In my opinion, HTC has dramatically fallen out of favor among the enthusiast community due to heavy lockdown and closed source drivers. This is in fact the reason I have sworn off ever buying another HTC phone again. That might be spilling over to the regular consumers.

In my case it has, because I've recommended to everybody that I have talked to android about to stay away from HTC.

But you are talking about one one hundredth of one percent of the Android user base.
In relative terms, that issue matters to nobody. The vast majority of android users never give that a second thought.

Further, you place the blame on the wrong party. Blame the carriers.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are an idiot. Also completely wrong.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Dr Max]

Sony isn't making that much money, and rightly so, i wouldn't touch the xerpia line with a ten foot pole. They are the most locked down non upgraded android there is (and upgrades and openness is the main advantage of android).

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for also LG, Huawai, ZTE, Sony, and many others.

No. No they aren't

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, just like the iPhone.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[amiga3D]

Are you serious? Everywhere I went they were pushing the HTC One. I kept having to tell them no SD card was a deal killer for me. If I wanted a phone with no replaceable battery and no SD card slot I'd buy an iPhone. I finally found someone that still had the Samsung I wanted. Strangely everyone had plenty of HTC Ones.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[amiga3D]

You've never swapped a battery in phones so you made the decision that felt right to you. Most people seem to prefer being able to swap batteries out so HTC made a decision that was bad for them and HTC. I happen to love linux but if Dell was to decide tomorrow to stop shipping windows and put linux on all their computers I think Dell would tank quickly. Just because I love linux doesn't mean squat to 98+% of the people out there.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[amiga3D]

I can't say one way or the other about the cameras. I've never bought a phone for a camera or a camera for a phone. I can see that many people, maybe even most, use their phone as their camera but I really haven't seen any phone that takes pictures as good as a good camera.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[amiga3D]

I've seen this a lot. Guys that are enthusiasts have a lot of influence. I came late to the smartphone market but a friend of mine sold a lot of iPhones for Apple by showing off what his could do. It didn't help that he had owned the original droid and ditched it for the iPhone the minute Verizon started selling it. When a guy that's obviously very knowledgeable starts telling his friends how much better he likes the iPhone than the Droids it is better than any TV ad.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

HTC is on lean times because all the Android phones they make have been shoddy, unreliable, locked-down crap built on marketing to rubes - BEATS BY DR. DRE, anyone?

Why do you think Google switches Nexus manufacturers every six months? Because HTC burned the brand so badly with early-adopters the first time out with incompetent technical support and nonexistent warranty coverage.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I walked out of one store because the pushed samsung so hard

Go to any electronics chain and try to buy anything which Samsung has a product line in and you'll probably get the same treatment.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

They did the same thing for tablets. I have a Flyer, but I'll never buy HTC again... They delivered Gingerbread months past the date they promised, and they promised ICS and later reneged.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Virtucon]

Uhh, I've had to replace batteries in multiple phones. For the amount of travel I do, I often have to charge when the power is getting too low and I don't get the recharge cycle life out of the lithium cells. For my HTC EVO (Replaced earlier this year with a Galaxy S3) Two extended life batteries in two years, so one year per battery.

If I were to get the HTC One X I'd be replacing the whole phone every year and that just doesn't make any sense unless I like Apple Products.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Virtucon]

No upgrades after about 9 months was my problem too but I stuck with it on Android 2.3.. but most of that was caused by the lack of memory that came with the EVO. I still like HTC Sense and the weather widget, especially the wiper arms that would come across the home screen when it was raining or snowing. That kind of humor you just don't get on a Windows Mobile device. Too bad they don't have it as something you can buy on Google Play.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a similar experience. In the search for a One X and One S in particular, only one store in my local shopping mall actually had a One S in stock.. I kept explaining its the HTC flagship phone's little brother, but got blank stares. That said, all the telcos had it listed on their website.. still a poor experience for a customer to walk around three floors of shopping complex trying to find a damn phone to look at!

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would agree with the htc evo 3d. I've waited and waited and waited for the 4.0 update. They promised me the current jellybean (at the time) and instead pushed it back 5 months, and the update killed every app already installed. The htc sense ui is pretty beat as well. Not as much customization as android should be. The new evo3d that was just replaced runs much nicer than the one that was upgraded but it is plaugingly slow with some applications. the inability to turn off the camera click, its just frustrating to get anything running well. I mean it plays zenonia pretty well... and after the 4.0 update the battery life is magnificently better. Though overall I'll likely not purchase another htc phone due to these factors and the lack of anything really useful about the senseUI. At least the Samsung provided tools do something other than oh look it works....which is how i feel my evo3D provided sense apps work. if flashing it didn't kill the warranty i'd of done it already done it. I tend to have dysfunctional phones which is why i find the warranty useful.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[TheLongshot]

Well, I guess when people view smartphones as disposable tech, they don't care if they can replace the battery. That being said, rechargeable batteries do go bad at some point and they will need to be replaced at some point.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Cinder6]

According to this article, Google only generated $500 million in revenue from 2008-2011. Granted, things may (probably) have sped up since then, but I think what Android really does for Google is that it locks people into the Google ecosystem--that is, the earnings are more indirect than direct.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[inglorion_on_the_net]

(contrary to the current trend I prefer small phones)

Interesting that you mention that. I had completely failed to notice, but after years of smaller and smaller phones, the trend for at least smartphones is now larger and larger.

Incidentally, if you already knew which phone you wanted, wouldn't you have been better off buying it online instead of in a store?

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[rtfa-troll]

But you are talking about one one hundredth of one percent of the Android user base. In relative terms, that issue matters to nobody.

These are the "early adopters"; the (former) HTC fanatics. The are the people that buy a phone based on specifications and potential. Everybody else buys a phone based on what other people say. If the early adopters don't buy, the first followers don't come in. If they don't come in then the rest of the customers never arrive.

Further, you place the blame on the wrong party. Blame the carriers.

Every serious phone manufacturer gets around this by providing both carrier locked phones with whatever the carrier wants and completely unlocked phones without subsidies designed for people that care.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

rest of the world buys mobiles hence the options unlike the subsidized USA markets

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[WillKemp]

I went through the same evaluation and looked at the fact that i had never even once swapped batteries in any phone I've ever owned.

Yeah, it occurred to me that i'd had my Desire for 2 years and the battery had shown no sign of deterioration and that i had a16GB SD card in the Desire and never filled it up, so the 16GB internal storage in the One X would probably be enough. However, it was a toss up between the One X and the S3 and those two factors pushed me towards the S3.

A few weeks after getting the S3, its mic died and i had to send it off to get fixed. The battery in the Desire died at the same time! If i hadn't been able to change the battery i would have been stuck without a backup.phone and would have had to buy one. I knew i'd.made the right decision then.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[caywen]

Gee, where did they get that idea from? There must have been some kind of super hit phone that didn't have replaceable batteries or expandable storage....

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[rtfa-troll]

Meego was fantasy bullshit. Maemo would have been their winning ticket

They were perfectly capable of doing either or both. There's been a huge amount of propaganda trying to say that Nokia was in a state of panic. In fact they could afford to keep paying for development more or less indefinitely; even whilst developing four platforms at once (Symbian, S40, Meego & Maemo) they had huge revenues and large profits (their "failed" smartphones were actually delivering increasing profits; not just sales) just before they Eloped the company with the famous "let's burn the platforms" speech. Symbian had increasing sales and their low end phone were stable so they had the market access which could allow them to sell the phones. The only things they had to do was select one within half a year, keep with it as a main priority for a year or two and maintain backwards compatibility with Symbian and series 40 accessories and they would have a good chance of developing an "eco-system".

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another benefit of a removable battery is that I can use an external charger in places I wouldn't trust leaving my cell phone out charging.

I can't imagine buying a phone without a swapable battery.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[tuppe666]

Sony:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/02/sony-loses-312m-in-last-quarter_n_1731696.html

Sony Loses $312m In Last Quarter On Weak Gaming And Mobile Sales

...but Sony's mobile phones are not in that Division they are in Sony has their own Game division "Mobile Products & Communications" Should we see what they say!!!

"Primarily due to the lowering of the annual unit sales forecast for PCs, sales are expected to be lower than the May
forecast. Due to the above-mentioned decrease in sales and the impact of unfavorable exchange rates, operating
results are expected to be significantly below the May forecast. Due to the consolidation of Sony Mobile, sales
are expected to increase significantly year-on-year. Operating results are expected to deteriorate significantly
year-on-year primarily due to the large remeasurement gain recorded in the prior fiscal year for Sony Mobile.
On a pro forma basis, had Sony Mobile been fully consolidated from the beginning of the previous fiscal year, a
significant increase in sales and a significant improvement in operating results would be anticipated."

That right ladies and gentleman Android is profitable for Sony, Microsoft Windows isn't!!

These are the financial figures http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[tuppe666]

It'll take a lot of ads to pay back the $12 billion spent on Motorola (and don't forget: they lost $500 million last quarter.). Hell, I doubt they've even made up the $300 million or so they spent on android itself, never mind the continual development.

...and Money from the Play store!! :) I did notice they his the 25Billion Apps Downloaded before Apple :)

Motorola did take a loss of $500 last quarter, but most of that was one off restructuring cost!

Seriously that $300million on Android is the best money they ever spent.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[tuppe666]

What are you talking about Googles Revenues for 2010 was $29,321,000,000 and in 2011 $37,905,000,000

They have already have revenues of $30Billion this year alone.

http://investor.google.com/financial/tables.html

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

But you are talking about one one hundredth of one percent of the Android user base.

But that one hundredth are the ones who are asked by other people what phone to buy. Personally, I bought a HTC Desire (the original one) in April 2010. Within two months, SIX other people bought it on my recommendations.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

As an android maker they could be losing money like crazy *and* not getting a cheque from microsoft.

The cheque from Microsoft is a joke. According to Asymco, "The foregone revenues from Symbian (assuming they had been able to maintain the decline to the level of 150 million units that they had originally forecast) would be about $9 billion. This means that had Nokia not knifed Symbian and had sold the shortfall units at an average price of $200 they would have received an additional $9 billion in sales. Furthermore, assuming a margin of 33% for those units, Nokia received from Microsoft one third from of what she gave up for exclusivity."

And we're not even taking about Android here, it's about Symbian.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people seem to prefer being able to swap batteries out so HTC made a decision that was bad for them and HTC.

[citation needed]

Really, the vast majority of cell phone users (note, slashdot readers are a tiny minority in comparison) have never swapped a cell phone battery and wouldn't know how. And don't care. They just charge up their phone and get on with their lives.

I shouldn't need a citation for this, given the legions of people who've bought iOS devices without even asking whether they can change the battery or not.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people also believe in the tooth-fairy

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[21mhz]

Dude, fatphil and I worked on it, so we know how fucked up it was, from the inside. Stop repeating Ahonen's bullshit.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[fatphil]

In particular as Ahonen himself seems to repeat it about 20 times in every article. He really is the proverbial stuck record. It's annoying that occasionally he does have some valid observations (for example his historical figures are normally well researched), otherwise you could dismiss him as simply being a total whack-job. I imagine his home/office being like Nash's from /A Beautiful Mind/ - lots of news clipping cut out and stuck on the wall - with figures and names and dates marked in highlighter pen or circled and joined together!

May I enquire which team you were in? I don't know if we ever encountered each other on bugzilla (or IRL) but I hope I'm forgiven if I locked horns too aggressively - I did tend to get a bit passionate about work.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[MrHanky]

Of course they don't. But the best camera is the one you're carrying with you, which is why camera quality can be important for a phone. And the difference between the good ones and the not so good ones is huge.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[blade8086]

Well ! see! This makes you the 16% so like obviously whatever!

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[amiga3D]

Never said people swap batteries. I stated most people want to be able to. Even if you never use an option that doesn't mean you want that option removed. I might like to swap the battery but if I can't then I resent that you've limited what I can do with my phone. I know it may make no sense but people buy things all the time that make no sense. It's about want, not need.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Idbar]

While I don't swap batteries, my galaxy has hanged a couple of times requiring to remove the battery to force a restart. While my wife's HTC is great, I'm not confident of having non removable batteries. Now, on topic, I think the apple effect has launched samsung to a better position due to the patent war, altogether with an escalation in offensive advertisement from samsung.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Sir_Sri]

assuming they had been able to maintain the decline to the level of 150 million units that they had originally forecast

Forecasts like that are why they are in the mess they are in. Symbian was going to be killed off as a product, anyone with a brain should have realized that was going to cause the market for symbian devices to tank.

The whole thing is gibberish anyway, MS wasn't particularly stopping them from shipping symbian devices - as long as the OS wasn't brought up to parity, it just wanted them to stay away from Android.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[icebike]

You don't need a battery pull to force a reboot.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[theshowmecanuck]

After the LG Optimus 2x (P999, G2x for T-Mobile) I won't ever touch an LG product again. After selling a bunch, they totally abandoned it. When Samsung (and others) started offering Gingerbread upgrades, LG was super late to the game and seemed to not want to offer it all. Personally I'm not sure they ever did since I went to cyanogenmod 7 before that, many months after gingerbread was generally available on Samsung devices. And forget about Ice Cream Sandwich. Meanwhile this is a very powerful phone so that is not the issue. It seems like they would rather force you to buy a new model than allow an upgrade to the OS. I put cynaogenmod for gingerbread on mine (C7) but the ICS (C9) doesn't have any official cyanogenmod support for the P999 and the unofficial one has issues with things like video. I have come to the conclusion that with new smartphones whether the hardware is the best or not (within limits), the software and upgrade support is more important. I think LG is more concerned with forcing you to buy a newer model than supporting existing devices. I think they don't agree with the notion that a happy customer will be a return customer. I won't be returning for any of their products.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[gizmod]

I hear your cry but it sounds like you what you need is am actual proper camera.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[21mhz]

Sorry, I prefer to hide behind a degree of anonymity here on Slashdot.
I appreciate your work back then, and the work of other good folks. If only they were in charge...

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[compro01]

Yeah, and that "super hit phone" has exactly zero competition that runs the same OS, unlike Android, where you've got lots of options running the same OS and do come with removable batteries and expandable storage.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Man On Pink Corner]

Don't forget that Android makes several billion dollars a year for Microsoft in the form of patent royalties.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Karlt1]

Those are sales not profits.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[MurukeshM]

No, this Windows thing is true of Samsung as well. When I recently visited Bangalore, I saw a billboard which said 'thank you' for their popularity. The ad didn't mention Android; it did show Android phones like S3 and Note II (with blank screens) and below the humongous Samsung logo, logos for Windows Phone and bada OS. No mention of Android at all. It's obvious these vendors' hands are tied when it comes to which platform gets better advertising.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[stephanruby]

The 'current' home page design could also be largely a result of the fact that Windows Phone 8 is launching right now....

Go ahead, pick a date -- any date: http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://htc.com

Look in the WHAT'S NEW section (since the way back machine doesn't seem to capture the Flash part). It doesn't matter which year you pick, they always seem to be launching a Windows phone of some kind, whether it's six months in advance, a year in advance, or whatever. And they do mention their Android phone launches, but just without the "Android" word, they just call them 3G phones and 4G phones, and those headlines seem to be generally much more subdued -- and much more absent from their home page (although, I'm willing to bet they have that many more actual Android phone launches than Windows phone launches).

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[AlphaWolf_HK]

Why would I blame the carriers? My Galaxy Nexus comes with an easy ability to unlock, and I'm on Sprint. Sprint hasn't asked any OEMs to lock down anything that I'm aware. All of the newer Samsung phones on the Sprint network can easily be unlocked.

As far as I'm aware, t-mobile doesn't care if you are unlocked either. I've never looked at Verizon or AT&T as I've never been interested in either carrier.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[walshy007]

But the best camera is the one you're carrying with you

I Just take this as a sign to take a dslr with me everywhere.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[__aasehi2499]

First, the most recent date available is in July 2011. Second, I don't see the Windows Windows Everywhere that you see. What I mostly see, more than anything else is HTC Sense on every page. And if they don't specifically mention Android or Google all the time they are pitching their own hardware, maybe it's just that they don't want to pay George Lucas or Google more licensing fees than they have to, and I am alright with that. Of course they have more Android launches than Windows launches, the fragmentation of Android devices and the total saturation of the market with every tier of Android device is well known. Windows will/can actually pay to have the premium product placement.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Threni]

Gathering information from users locations, surfing habits, emails, etc etc etc and monetzing it (chiefly via making this information available to advertisers).

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Threni]

>It'll take a lot of ads to pay back the $12 billion spent on Motorola

They're worth something like $250 billion, so $12 billion isn't very much, is it?

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[LucidBeast]

Oh, I forgot. I guess this is the new normal ...

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be ideal, if you like the idea of carrying around that much bulk. With a lens attached, of course, because you'd miss those quick moments putting the lens on.

My approach is to carry the DSLR when I know I'll be taking pictures. Like a wedding, a trip, my son's graduation, etc. For those quick moments that happen daily ("look, that sign has some unintended sexual pun!!"), a good cameraphone is enough.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Andy Dodd]

Most locked down???? Um, Sony has a far better bootloader unlocking program than HTC (none of that "unlocked but S-ON" bullshit you get from HTC), they are one of the largest contributors to AOSP, they have the ONLY non-Nexus phone in AOSP with the Xperia S, they open-sourced their sensor HAL with DASH, and actively cooperate with the CyanogenMod team to facilitate CM bringups on their devices. (As in, Alin Jerpelea has received quite a decent number of phones for free from them, and they provide answers to technical questions from him.)

The disadvantage, of course, is they don't have the clout to force through unlockable bootloaders against the carrier's wishes like Samsung does. Samsung is about the only manufacturer that has been able to get away with an unlocked/unlockable bootloader on a SIM-locked phone. (Carriers see a locked bootloader as an extra layer of defense. I think this is stupid since they have a FUCKING SIGNED CONTRACT enforcing the contract subsidy terms regardless of technical measures... But carriers suck big fat donkey balls.)

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[Andy Dodd]

Yup. I think manufacturers fail to see that in today's day and age, "Average Joe User" doesn't trust the marketing bullshit - he goes to his techie friend.

If the techie friend doesn't like HTC because of HTC's bootloader locking policies, Average Joe won't buy HTC.

In some ways, when making a recommendation, knowing a device has that "way out" if the manufacturer abandons/screws up a device is critical to me feeling comfortable recommending a phone. I will never recommend a phone with a locked bootloader that is not fully unlockable to any family member or friend, even if they never do put custom firmware on it, I know that at least there will be an escape route for them if the manufacturer fucks up in the future.

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[steveg]

Why do people seem to assume that "Droid" and "Android" are synonymous? "Droid" is exclusively a Verizon brand, and yes, that involves licensing to Lucas, soon to be Disney.

But "Android" has nothing to do with Lucas, and Android phones on other networks are not "Droids." It may be that Google requires licensing for the Android name, I'm not sure, but Lucas certainly doesn't.

Yeah, I know, you didn't say that all Androids are Droids, you just triggered a pet peeve of mine. :)

Re:Why is that "interesting"?

[__aasehi2499]

Peeves are the only pet worth their bother.

HTC's handset volume declined by -43%

[Anonymous Coward]

So that means its volume increased by 43%?

Re:HTC's handset volume declined by -43%

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

This is why playing the percentages game is stupid.

HTC's volume: 7 million units during the quarter
Nokia's volume: 6.3 million units during the last quarter.

So HTC is "losing ground faster" but they're still selling more phones.

Why is this actually an article anywhere, nevermind here on slash-- oh, wait. BGR - I understand now. Weekly World News of the tech world.

Re:HTC's handset volume declined by -43%

[occasional_dabbler]

It may in the TFA (tl:dr) or the same data also reported elsewhere but these figures are only for smartphones. If you include 'feature phones' then Nokia still sold more than World+dog. 76 million I think was the number. Plus you have to include the fact that NOBODY is buying Nokia smartphones at the moment because the entire (niche) market is waiting for Monday to buy 820s and 920s. Nokia's Q4 will look a lot more positive. HTC, although it has put some effort into quite a nice design for the 8X and 8S is still predominantly an Android company and there may be some people holding out for their Winphones but their Android phones should be selling regardless. The trend for HTC seems to be inescapably downwards but Nokia might just pull it off.

I had an HTC Legend a while back. Beautiful little device, but as many have pointed out: No upgrades to the OS

Re:HTC's handset volume declined by -43%

[narcc]

oh, wait. BGR - I understand now. Weekly World News of the tech world.

Now that's not fair. Weekly World News is at least entertaining -- and no one actually takes them seriously.

They're more like the World Net Daily or Drudge Report of the tech world. It doesn't take much to figure out that they're a bunch of kooks, but they still get a lot of attention.

Re:HTC's handset volume declined by -43%

[Anonymous Coward]

If you include 'feature phones' then Nokia still sold more than World+dog. 76 million I think was the number.

So, Samsung is out of the world+dog? Notice that they sold 105 million phones total, compared to 85 million for Nokia.

The iPhone effect?

[Shoten]

Okay, so HTC took a 43% hit on total units shipped in the Autumn quarter...the same quarter that the iPhone 5 came out. How heavy a hit did they have in Summer and Spring? It's happened before that when a new iPhone comes out, that's pretty much all anyone buys for a short while. Nokia's decline, on the other hand, has been going on consistently for some years now. A 23% drop for them means, what...that they delivered 23 less phones than the previous quarter?

Re:The iPhone effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Only about 11.5 less this time around. That 0.5 comes because they resold one less refurbished unit than usual.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

If that was the case, then it would have affected Samsung, too, but Samsung is selling record amounts of phones. More than Apple.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[Anne Thwacks]

Yes, but we Samsung buyers would have bought HTC if they ahd replaceable batteries and removable SD cards, and we will next time, if HTC get the message that people dont buy iPhones just because they can't change the battery. I still have, and use, an HTC Desire, and I have three spare batteries (ie 4 batteries) to make damn sure I can use it! I have learned my lesson - if you need a phone, you need a spare battery (or three)/ Also, if you need to take it for replair you want to be able to take your content out in the shop, and bring it home. And preferably be able to insert the card (and SIM) into another phone, probably of a different brand. We have had phones before, and are not like the people who bought the first iPhone.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[hankwang]

"I have three spare batteries (ie 4 batteries) to make damn sure I can use it!"

I used to carry a spare with my previous phone, but I found it a pain to keep track of which one needs charging. Plus, you need to power cycle the phone both to switch batteries and to recharge the spare, which is annoyingly slow on a smartphone.

Nowadays I carry a usb cable to charge my phone from my laptop, and a Duracell portable recharger in case I don't have a laptop around. The portable charger is good for about 2/3 recharge of the built in battery of my htc Desire S.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[tuppe666]

Okay, so HTC took a 43% hit on total units shipped in the Autumn quarter...the same quarter that the iPhone 5 came out. How heavy a hit did they have in Summer and Spring? It's happened before that when a new iPhone comes out, that's pretty much all anyone buys for a short while. Nokia's decline, on the other hand, has been going on consistently for some years now. A 23% drop for them means, what...that they delivered 23 less phones than the previous quarter?

Apples market share has dropped from 23% all the way to 15% the iPhone does not have any relevance anymore.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[AmiMoJo]

Samsung's shipments are way up, despite the iPhone. In fact Apple's shipments are a bit lower than last year.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[walshy007]

What is wrong with external batteries? or carrying a usb charger with you around the place?

Why do you need an sd card? read/write speeds on them are horrendous compared with ssd. The only possible uses I can think of for the sd card that would suit is if you wish to carry a heap of hd movies on your phone, in which case you truly will need quite a few batteries if your phone is acting as your movie player.

For actual useful things I don't think an sd card slot or removable battery is required.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[blade8086]

Battery:

Because when your battery loses charge efficiency, you want to replace the battery instead of chucking the phone
or being forced to recharge 2-3x day

SD Card:

Ok - show me the phone that has a SSD. Really. And who is using phone storage for speed anyway?
also: removable media is always more flexible than fixed media, until such time that the media can hold alll of your data
so why *not* have it?

Re:The iPhone effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly have not been stranded on a HTC device that never gets upgrades and continues to face known bugs that were reported over a year ago. It became so bad this summer that they stopped even mentioning when they (implying that they would) release a software update for the Thunderbolt.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[walshy007]

Battery: so change the battery when it starts to die three years down the track? Sure it's not as easy but it's still plenty doable.

SD: All of them? not anywhere near as quick as desktop ssd's of course, but still an order of manitude faster than an sd card.

Still awaiting a usage for over 32gig of data on a phone that does not include hd movies etc.

Re:The iPhone effect?

[teg]

Samsung's shipments are way up, despite the iPhone. In fact Apple's shipments are a bit lower than last year.

Apple shipped 26.9 million iPhones last quarter, an increase of 58% since the same quarter last year. That's hardly decreasing shipments.

HTC is part of Via

[Anonymous Coward]

I was rather surprised to hear that HTC is actually part of Via, and here I was thinking Via only produced crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Technologies

Re:HTC is part of Via

[larppaxyz]

Why do you think VIA only produced crap? I only remember one bad chipset from them.

Re:HTC is part of Via

[jcarr]

Maybe HTC was an attempt by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cher_Wang to rebrand it.

First!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, I want a Nokia with Android.

Re:First!!

[aliquis]

Also, I want a Nokia with Android.

Would it be faster?

Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[InvisibleClergy]

Really? Last numbers I saw put the iPhone ahead of Android. Anyone have numbers on this?

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Bill Dimm]

Yes, really, by a large margin.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[The Dancing Panda]

iPhone is the most popular smartphone. However, iOS only runs on that phone, and Android runs on everything else.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Android expanded its dominance of the global smartphone market last quarter and accounted for 68% of all smartphones shipped in Q2 2012, according to IDC

http://bgr.com/2012/08/08/q2-2012-smartphone-market-share-idc/

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Not to mention there are lots of (relatively) low-end Android phones - a space Apple refuses to compete in. You can now get non-subsidized Android phones for under $100.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and the iPhone 4S now costs $99,-
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone4s

And more, the iPhone 4 you can get for free:
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone4

Apple has a now rather long story of selling previous models for way low price.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Really? Last numbers I saw put the iPhone ahead of Android.

Was that in 2008?

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but those are subsidized prices. If you are a pay-as-you-go user, you'll pay a lot more. Can't find the cite at the moment, but I've ready that non-contract phone users are the fastest growing segment.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are subsidized. you would need to pay over 300 without a contract.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Stalks]

Do you not understand what non-subsidized means?

You just compared an Android sub-$100 phone to an iPhone for $2475 ($99 + $2376 contract)....

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

And you can't compare a $100 Android without factoring in service as well, prepay or not.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/chaser-phone/features/

$60 + ($35/month for 2 years) = $1740.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[MrHanky]

The iPhone 4 is still for sale, and it's low-end compared to most Android phones at a comparable price.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why???
I bought my iPhone 4s for $729, taxes included, and yes, it is factory unlocked and I have used it with about 10 carriers in 8 countries. Apple are happy to sell you an unlocked one, you just have to ask for it.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[cockroach2]

Nice graph. I always thought Android used Linux. Guess I was wrong.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[uvajed_ekil]

...as long as you sign a contract for $$$$. And I must agree that the Iphone 4 is indeed low-end compared to most Android phones!

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[Stalks]

$100 + 1 PAYG sim $10 = $70

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[MrHanky]

You seem to imagine you know far more about the world than you actually do. Contracts and subsidised phones aren't forced on you in the non-US.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[93 Escort Wagon]

...as long as you sign a contract for $$$$. And I must agree that the Iphone 4 is indeed low-end compared to most Android phones!

Given that the vast majority of Android phones being sold are still on Froyo or Gingerbread - it is unlikely the average consumer would agree with you.

I had a Froyo phone for a bit more than a year, and it didn't even compare favorably with my old first-generation iPod Touch.

Re:Android is the most popular mobile OS?

[93 Escort Wagon]

Oops, that was for 2011. Here's as of 1 October 2012, from Android.com. It may not be entirely representative since the metric is accesses made to the Google Play store. Even now, more than 70% of Android devices are on 1.x or 2.x.

Don't forget Meego

[SpzToid]

Nokia is still limping along with Meego remnants, (and did that team kick-ass to deliver the N9 on-time, just before they were fired). There must still be some semblance of a paper trail left! Do not forget Meego! (the other OS).

Godspeed Jolla!

Re:Don't forget Meego

[fatphil]

> and did that team kick-ass to deliver the N9 on-time, just before they were fired

No, it wasted time and effort spinning its wheels going nowhere. Sometimes going backwards. Sometimes taking out water hydrants as they span out of control. Some real examples have been talked about on the forums (beware, almost everyone doesn't have a clue what they're talking about), but alas Nokia's still around to sue if I breach my NDA.

But thanks for calling us kick-ass, it's nice to see people happy with what I devoted so much time and effort to over the years.

Re:Don't forget Meego

[SpzToid]

Jay Leno is known for having a museum's worth of classic cars that he really enjoys. He's a wealthy man, he works hard, and he can afford such pleasures.

I have a Nokia N95, N900, and N9 and feel the same way about these fine devices of mine, (and use each every day around the house for SIP calls, sync'd emails, calendars, alarms, BASH scripts over SSH, and RSS). I would like to thank you and your colleagues for your time, skill, and effort! To use a car analogy, I feel like I knew enough to buy that 1963 Corvette when it was new, and to take care of it as time passes. The bulletproof N9 is another Nokia linux classic worth taking care of. I'd still like to buy one for my mother if I can manage it.

Re:Don't forget Meego

[alantus]

I have a Nokia N95, N900, and N9 and feel the same way about these fine devices of mine, (and use each every day around the house for SIP calls, sync'd emails, calendars, alarms, BASH scripts over SSH, and RSS).

I hope you are not using that n900 for sip calls, cause its voip stack is full of unresolved bugs.
Nokia always had an almost good voip implementation, always with some minor annoying bugs, but the n900 takes the prize.

Re:Don't forget Meego

[SpzToid]

Perhaps my configuration is fortunate, but I enjoy really good SIP quality on the N900 calls using 12voip.com and my FreePBX/Asterisk server. I should probably test thoroughly before I write this, but I suspect the 3G SIP quality of the N900 is not as good as the 802.11g LAN quality ( I don't think I'm running it on 802.11n locally), but then this unit doesn't leave the house because it is so precious to me. I'm fairly certain, if memory serves well, what I've written is accurate. I really enjoy how Nokia bakes SIP into the OS, so battery life is very good, (as opposed to running something egregious like an additional 3rd-party Skype application on a lessor-OS).
The N900 lately gets most-used for watching hulu.com and netflix.com. The N900 makes for a nice little streaming TV besides the PC while I'm trying to get work done; and I dig it when I'm watching the TV on it and an (IMAP) email notification arrives and pops-up onscreen. A sweet little personal PC and keyboard.

Re:Don't forget Meego

[fatphil]

I still use my n900. I use it as a small computer more than a phone. xterm is the single most-used program on the device, probably. (Which is clearly why I don't use my n9 - no keyboard. My *grrr*lfriend has an n950 :-()

bad designs

[Anonymous Coward]

Htc one x could of been a contender to the galaxy s3 if they didn't go full retard on design and put a non removable battery and no expandable memory on their flagship phone. I guess they thought trying to copy an iPhone's flaws was the right decision. That and dont they have locked bootloaders?

Re:bad designs

[compro01]

That and dont they have locked bootloaders?

Yes, though there's an official method available to unlock it for most devices.

Re:bad designs

[clickclickdrone]

I've got a one x and it's a fantastic phone. Most people don't care about adding memory as it has 32mb which is really enough. The battery i@ a bad idea but then my last HTC's battery is going strong 2.5 years on.

Re:bad designs

[Sique]

You can unlock all HTC bootloaders - officially, there is a website by HTC dedicated to this.

Re:bad designs

[Anonymous Coward]

I sure the fuck hope it's more than 32 MB... that would be the worst available...

I'm absolutely certain you meant 32 GB ...

Re:bad designs

[shugah]

Could HAVE

Re:bad designs

[ballpoint]

Htc one x could of been a contender to the galaxy s3 if they didn't go full retard on design and put a non removable battery and no expandable memory on their flagship phone.

I don't care for either, but opted for the better screen, camera and a thinner but way stronger case at a lower price. HTC is simply outmarketeered.

Re:bad designs

[shiftless]

His phone runs DOS, you insensitive clod

Re:bad designs

[clickclickdrone]

>I'm absolutely certain you meant 32 GB
Yes, you're right. I started this stuff in the 70's, saying megabyte still sounds cool when you're used to k so it just slips out now and then.

Keyboard

[zenyu]

I stopped paying attention to HTC the day they declared they wouldn't make any more phones with keyboards. That was what they had over Samsung and Motorolla. Now they are just make the same kind of phones with lesser build quality.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought an HTC Desire Z because of the full keyboard. I even got a SIM-only contract and bought the phone myself to get it.

Re:Keyboard

[cbhacking]

They had some great keyboards, too. The Touch Pro 2 (from the days of WinMo) had one of the best keyboards I'd even seen on a smartphone, if not *the* best. They produced a Windows Phone 7 model on the same basic chassis, and I think an Android phone too, but those were both some time back.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Motorola Droid has had a slideout keyboard in every edition; and most of HTC's flagship phones (Incredible, Thunderbolt, Rezound) don't have keyboards -- which phones are you referring to?

Re:Keyboard

[uvajed_ekil]

I like my current Samsung, but I do miss my G1's keyboard any time I have to type something longer than one sentence. But battery issues and the current lack of microSD slots has turned me off of HTC. Solid phones, but Samsung is better now. (I don't know about Motorola as I have never used Verizon)

Re:Keyboard

[fatphil]

You're not alone. I stopped paying attention to them as soon as they said they were moving back to Windows Phone about 2 years ago (I'm a bigot, sue me). They're clearly fickle, and therefore not worth the effort following.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here waited and waited for 5 row keyboard Htc :-( . Htc has better build quality than Motorola. I had a G1 and it is still good except for worn out look, no damage, no scratches. My new Droid 4 already has a cracked front cover just in 6 months, and I don't even know how that happened, never had a big fall or anything.

HTC made great qwerty phones.

[taxman_10m]

That could and should have been *their thing*. If they are just making the same type of phone as everyone else, may as well buy a Samsung.

Re:HTC made great qwerty phones.

[Electrawn]

Exactly. I don't want a touch phone, I want a slider keyboard phone. HTC made great ones and now I can't find any.

Re:HTC made great qwerty phones.

[bill_mcgonigle]

Exactly. I don't want a touch phone, I want a slider keyboard phone. HTC made great ones and now I can't find any.

I just picked up a refurbished Droid 3 from eBay for $199. Decent.

European-style negative percentages

[MrEricSir]

For some reason in Europe, you tend to see a lot of stores advertising "-50% off!" sales and such.

Apparently double negative percentages have the opposite meaning in parts of the world.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[epSos-de]

It is an old way to stop hacks of the pen or the pencil. Most of the people do not even know why it is still used and what it means. One evil fellow might add a number in front or at the end of an existing number. So, the old European book-keepers wrote a dot or a dash before and after the numbers that were final. The minus (-) is a dash in this case, so that no one can make 150% out of ----50% Just history and a lesson for you to add dashes at the end of important numbers on paper. Good German teachers still teach this practice to their students.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems to me that the meaning is essentially the same. The subtle difference lies in the fact that while the word "off" is used, the figure -50% is important since that tells you that you decrease the price by 50% (decrease if percentage increase in price. Which is it?" Less confusion is better. :)

Re:European-style negative percentages

[MisterMidi]

It means the same here in Europe. It's just that we have stupid people too, who'll blindly copy other people's mistakes. If you do an image search for "korting", "Rabatt", "rabat", "soldes" or "réduction" (discount in various European languages), you'll see the vast majority doing it right.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[frisket]

For some reason in Europe, you tend to see a lot of stores advertising "-50% off!" sales and such.

No, you get either "–50%" or "50% off". I've never seen both — but perhaps a particularly illiterate or innumerate trader might do it.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[malacandrian]

The Romance languages prevalent in western Europe use a double negative to suggest extra negativity, rather than reverting to a positive as in the Germanic languages . As such, I it could be reinforcing the idea of a reduction.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I know in the Spanish world, you can add as many negatives as you want to a sentence, and it always results in a negative. I imagine this to be the same for other romantic languages (e.g. French, Portugese, Romanian, Italian) though I've never studied them in detail. It is worth pointing out though, that Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world.

Then again, English is Germanic in origin, with a lot of French and some Latin added. German shares a lot of traits with Scandinavian languages and surrounding areas (e.g. Belgium) so it may very well be the double negative is positive rule there. I wouldn't know as I've never studied any of them at all.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[VortexCortex]

You must be young here. No need for a history lesson, I was born before the Internet. Checks still exist. Part of writing a check is writing the amount. The value goes in two different places -- once numerically and the other spelled out on the line. At the end of the spelled out amount you write a line to the end of that area, pretty much like you were saying about the ancient accountants of old and for the exact same reasons.

Now, get off my patch of cracked and scored dry earth.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[Anonymous Coward]

Checks still exist

Haven't seen a personal check since the 1970's. Where do they still use them? In America maybe?

Re:European-style negative percentages

[Anonymous Coward]

Just FYI, I learned in law school you should do the same thing to the "pay to the order of" line, or else John Doe (who found/stole the check) could append "or John Doe" and then go cash it.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[Anonymous Coward]

Belgium is Dutch/French in languages(with some dialects). I dont think the German's share a lot with the belgium but more with the French. Dutch is usually a mix of German/French/Latin/English.

Re:European-style negative percentages

[Anonymous Coward]

Spanish is not the second most spoken language in the world, please stop spreading this lie. It might be the second language with most native speakers if you count a lot of native-americans or europeans (Basques, Catalans, Galicians) who live in countries that count everyone as native Spanish speakers even though they are not.

English is by far the most spoken language in the world including native speakers and people who speak it as a second language, you just have to travel a bit, and a far second is Mandarin.

Good?

[decipher_saint]

New players enter the market, change the landscape, the old players adapt or die. Isn't this how it's supposed to work?

That reminds me, the ol' HTC Touch Pro is due for retirement soon...

HTC underestimated geeks.

[Thantik]

HTC seriously underestimated the power of their Android enthusiasts. They went the direction of Moto and started locking everything down. Every Android enthusiast before that point went around telling _everyone else_ to get an HTC. Once they screwed that vocal minority, everyone started pushing Samsung. Samsung doesn't cryptographically sign their bootloaders, meaning they can be unlocked without some big-brother style registration. This means Android enthusiasts push Samsung now.

Never underestimate the power of an enthusiastic geek.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternative model of causality: Samsung advertises several times as much as HTC.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[_avs_007]

exactly! I had HTC phones before and loved them, and recommended them to all my friends. I currently have an HTC One X... While I like the phone, the hoops I had to jump through to unlock the bootloader was crazy. And if I ever have to replace my phone, it will most likely come with the updated ROM and hBOOT so that you can't unlock the bootloader. (You have to root first to be able to unlock bootloader. The OTA doesn't have a root exploit, so unless you already unlocked the bootloader, you can't root. So now I am certain that if this phone ever goes kaput, my next phone will be a Samsung, unless the Nexus 4 has LTE, which I heard doesn't... So now I push Samsung with all my friends, instead of HTC. So as a result, a bunch of my friends have Samsung phones now.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[epSos-de]

Yes, you are correct. I have personally advised people to buy Samsung phones and won hard supporters of the iPhone after the people understood that even Apple is just buying old parts from Samsung and selling them in an overpriced package.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[Anonymous Coward]

EXACTLTY!!!

I was an HTC Fanatic till they started locking down their bootloaders renderring the phones USELESS for power users like me...
Ever since then i advice everyone to stay away from it.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[DNS-and-BIND]

What would you do if you were a non-techie, you ask the one computer guy you know which phone to get, and he tells you HTC, hands down? Versus seeing a TV commerical with a spiffy-looking unknown phone?

Word-of-mouth advertising is the best advertising. Plus, it's free.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[wintermute000]

You do realise you can just go to HTCDEV.com and unlock bootloader with the code they give you?

Unless you're 'murican and speaking about the Verizon BL locked HTC OneXL in which case you do know thats Verizon's fault not HTC's?

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[wintermute000]

sorry I mean AT&T (I think! apologies in advance)

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[VortexCortex]

You do realise you can just go to HTCDEV.com and unlock bootloader with the code they give you?

Sorry. No go. I will never buy hardware that requires me to get permission from someone before I install my own software on it. Let me tell you a little story about websites: They're transient.

It doesn't pass the Zombie test, then I don't buy it: If you find a crate of something and can't use it for survival for any reason, including DRM, then it's not worth anything at all and should never be manufactured in the first place.

Awesome! Smart Phones! I can get root, create a mesh network via tether + Wifi relays, tie string to trip-wires and use the accelerometers to trigger packets and cameras to create an early zombie warning grid -- Oh, nope, nevermind it's just more worthless junk. You've got to go to some damn website that doesn't exist anymore. Draconian DRM is not just inconvenient, it could mean the difference between being using your brains as a post apocalyptic MacGuyver, or for dinner.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[Beetle B.]

What would you do if you were a non-techie, you ask the one computer guy you know which phone to get, and he tells you HTC, hands down? Versus seeing a TV commerical with a spiffy-looking unknown phone?

Word-of-mouth advertising is the best advertising. Plus, it's free.

Sorry to be a jerk, but do you have data to back that up?

As the local techie, everyone asks me which PC/camera/TV/ereader etc to get. I tell them. Almost none of them follows my advice.

You see, I'm the weird guy who has the stuff that none of their other friends have. They don't want to be that weird guy in front of all their friends.

Never underestimate the power of conformity.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[wintermute000]

OK I understand your concern even if I'm not anywhere as puritannical. (yeah been down the compile my own kernel from source road before so no need to lecture me, i just value my time more these days and rate the possibility of requiring zombie macguyver hacking as somewhere close to zero).

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[Anonymous Coward]

The techie with the real power is the one in the phone shop.

They were the ones responsible for HTC's rise, and now they're the ones responsible for its fall.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[Anonymous Coward]

No. That just unlocks the bootloader. If youre a real android geek you'd want s-off. Which basically means that the unlocking of the bootloader is the first step.

And YES. I used to tell people to get a HTC. Never again. Never again. Evo3d owners were shortchanged massively. And I'll never recommend a HTC to anyone. So fuck them. They deserve it. They promised unlockable bootloaders but gave us squat. And because they screwed me over, I'll just spread the news that they suck.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't pass the zombie test.

Re:HTC underestimated geeks.

[_avs_007]

Yes, I was speaking to AT&T... But, no, that is still HTC's fault... Samsung didn't succumb to AT&T's desires to lock the bootloader. HTC did tho. My guess is that was part of the deal for carrier exclusivity I suppose, but I don't think HTC is doing themselves any favors by locking that phone into a single carrier, and then locking it down so that geeks won't recommend it to their friends...

Pricing Power

[alexander_686]

A lot of business writing is poor, but Michael Porter is the exception to the rule – and I think his 5 force analysis comes into play here.

Basically, HTC is in a highly completive market with low barriers to entry. It’s hard to make their phone unique – anybody can use Android – so basically they are in a commodity market where they have to compete on price. (and by price I mean value. Honda and Toyota thrived for years offering basic, commodity cars. Nothing exciting but they did give you value for your money.)

On the other hand, Nokia offers the best Windows 8 phone. If you like that OS you almost have to go with Nokia. Gives them a little pricing power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_five_forces_analysis

Re:Pricing Power

[fredprado]

That would be true if they weren't all in the same market. All smartphones are competing for the very same users to accomplish the very same purposes. A different OS certainly differentiates your product, but does not make it necessarily better, or more desirable, or even different enough. For all purpose sliding keyboards would be much more significant differentiation factor between HTC and Samsung than a different OS, just to give an example.

Re:Pricing Power

[iserlohn]

That's all good and whatnot, apart from the fact that HTC also makes Windows phones... And so does Samsung, LG and Nokia... So that argument gets blown out of the water as well...

Re:Pricing Power

[alexander_686]

Fredprado: The number of items that HTC can differentiate itself is small, and those points are basically hardware.

For example, Sliding Keyboards. People loved their BlackBerry because it had an excellent physical keyboard – but it’s not much of a moat. Anybody could do sliding keyboards. Heck, Apple could do sliding keyboards if they wanted to.

I am going to argue that the OS is different. Anybody can use Android – there is no moat. I understand Microsoft is a bit picker. iOS, of course, is just Apple. I know people who have an extensive collection of IPhone apps. It would take a lot for them to switch to an android phone. I know a person who really likes the tiles on the windows phones. His choices are limited. We have a little stickiness here.

So, if the difference is basically hardware, people can switch with low cost. If HTC does not have the best hardware for value then it’s fall with be as it’s rapid rise.

As for Iserlohn, I have heard that the Nokia 920 was, by far, the best Windows phone out there – and that they had a 6 month to 1 year lead over everybody else. Am I wrong here? (I am getting my information second hand.)

Re:Pricing Power

[Belial6]

Making sure that there was a bluetooth sliding keyboard case that for their phones would have been an even bigger differentiator. I want to see an Android phone maker that takes accessories serious. Currently every single one of them treats accessories as an after thought. This is the one area that Apple is vastly ahead of Android. Until the iPhone 5, you could buy an iPhone accessory, and it would generally work smoothly with every iPhone and iPod Touch on the market. Many of them would also work smoothly with the iPad. It is the consistency of form factor that allows things like the iCade to be offered for Apple products.

Give me an android phone with good specs, runs stock android, has physical dimensions/connectors that allow it to be easily popped into accessories, and a commitment to providing future phones that will work with the same accessories.

Re:Pricing Power

[fredprado]

That is also false. The beauty of Android is that you do have all that, you just need to look for third party accessories, and they usually have a much longer live than Apple's accessories because Android phones use standard interfaces (micro SD, micro USB, etc) and therefore most accessories are interchangeable among android phones even from different manufactures.

I have multiple dock stations, several batteries, several SD cards, a Blue Tooth keyboard, a Car Charger,and several other accessories for my Galaxy S2 and most of them fit just as well on my old Galaxy S and would fit perfectly in my S3. Sliding keyboards and car supports are the exception because they need to fit physically around the phone, as every phone has its own geometry (including the different I-phone models).

Re:Pricing Power

[narcc]

People loved their BlackBerry because it had an excellent physical keyboard – but it’s not much of a moat.

You wouldn't think so, but it's amazing how poor keyboards are/were on other phones. The keyboard on the Droid Pro, for example, is astonishingly poor -- it somehow managed to be worse than the Palm Pre!

Why they don't just follow RIM's designs is beyond me.

On sliding keyboards, well, even RIM never really nailed that down. You need shorter keys, and losing that extra little bit of horizontal space makes a big difference. (The 9900 keyboard, for example, is unquestionably the best mobile phone keyboard ever. The extra width over previous Bold and Curve models I'm certain was a major contribution factor.)

Re:Pricing Power

[Anonymous Coward]

Making sure that there was a bluetooth sliding keyboard case that for their phones would have been an even bigger differentiator. I want to see an Android phone maker that takes accessories serious. Currently every single one of them treats accessories as an after thought. This is the one area that Apple is vastly ahead of Android. Until the iPhone 5, you could buy an iPhone accessory, and it would generally work smoothly with every iPhone and iPod Touch on the market. Many of them would also work smoothly with the iPad. It is the consistency of form factor that allows things like the iCade to be offered for Apple products.

Give me an android phone with good specs, runs stock android, has physical dimensions/connectors that allow it to be easily popped into accessories, and a commitment to providing future phones that will work with the same accessories.

yes because micro-USB is such a difficult connector to work with, and just think only 90% of androids use one...

Great

[Anonymous Coward]

More Apple ads and FUD disguised as news.

Thank you Mr. Shill. Can I have some more!

Failing To Recognize User Needs

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to love HTC phones and sought them out as well-built and designed devices. I really wanted a One X, but their insistence on selling it without a removable battery or expandable memory was a turn-off. Same thing with the new Google Nexus phone coming out next week. I want a new phone. I want an android phone. I don't want a sealed, non-expandable black box. If I wanted that, I'd buy from Apple. At least with them, I can get a really good warranty and support program.

Re:Failing To Recognize User Needs

[Anonymous Coward]

You are spot on
  and to make matters worse - when you compare the phones Samsung versus HTC - (well the last time I did that) Samsung phones not only let u swap in fresh batteries BUT the batteries were bigger - - even if not by much - thats a HUGE advantage in my book - and then no memory card slot - its a definate NO

The problem with using a commodity OS...

[unimacs]

is that you end up trying to differentiate primarily in hardware or price. You're limited as to what you can do on the hardware side by an OS you don't control. There can only be so many successful players in a market like that.

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[compro01]

The problem with using a commodity OS is that you do not get much, if any, slack when you start doing stupid things. HTC's stupid things were locking bootloaders, getting rid of replaceable batteries, and getting rid of microSD slots.

This resulted in everyone knowledgeable, who previously recommended HTC devices to everyone, dropping them like a bad habit and instead recommending Samsung.

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[epyT-R]

yes.. you actually have to compete on quality and features instead of artificial lock in.

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[unimacs]

The problem with using a commodity OS is that you do not get much, if any, slack when you start doing stupid things. HTC's stupid things were locking bootloaders, getting rid of replaceable batteries, and getting rid of microSD slots.

This resulted in everyone knowledgeable, who previously recommended HTC devices to everyone, dropping them like a bad habit and instead recommending Samsung.

Among geeks perhaps, but the vast majority of market doesn't care much about that stuff if at all. They'd rather replace their phone every few years than worry about the battery and they have no concept of what a bootloader is.

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[unimacs]

yes.. you actually have to compete on quality and features instead of artificial lock in.

What lock in? I know lots of people that have gone back and forth between an iPhone and various Android phones.

All I'm saying is that it's a lot harder to compete on features when you've tied yourself to the same OS that most of the rest of the market is using.

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[Anonymous Coward]

Among geeks perhaps, but the vast majority of market doesn't care much about that stuff if at all.

But when Joe Sixpack wants a new phone, he probably asks Cousin Nerd which one he should get.

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[Keen Anthony]

Not every Cousin Nerd is truly knowledgeable on these things. He's just a little bit more savvy than Joe Sixpack because he's younger and follows trends better and is a l33t hax0r because he cleverly found a way to hack the firmware of the his phone by downloading an program off the Internet.

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[VortexCortex]

You're limited as to what you can do on the hardware side by an OS you don't control.

WTF are you even talking about? The MFGs control the OS -- It's open sourced and even re-skinned quite frequently. Hell, you could create a whole new chipset and instruction besides x86 or ARM -- Completely change the hardware, and still put Android on it. That's why C compilers exist. Apple has the same luxury...

...Oh, I see, by control you mean control the users via restrictions in the OS. Ah, yep. It's harder to abuse users and charge over priced rates, Like Apple; Hell, it's hard doing that even if you are Apple.

There's plenty of ways to compete on hardware, and software too. If you buy your stuff from the same factories as everyone else and run the same software too, then try to make money on cost cutting you'll lose. It's going to take a few failures before folks start catching on. The winners are the customers who have some real choice and sane prices, as apposed to on platforms where the OS controls you.

I'm waiting for: The "Deep One" - A C'thulhu themed waterproof phone with exclusive sequel to the indie game "C'thulhu Saves the World", and membership to an ancient secretive cult...

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[unimacs]

You're limited as to what you can do on the hardware side by an OS you don't control.

WTF are you even talking about? The MFGs control the OS -- It's open sourced and even re-skinned quite frequently. Hell, you could create a whole new chipset and instruction besides x86 or ARM -- Completely change the hardware, and still put Android on it. That's why C compilers exist. Apple has the same luxury...

The MFGs control the OS? Really? So they can change whatever they want? Even the kernel? What if they don't want to release the source?

What happens if HTC makes significant tweaks to the OS to accommodate some fancy new feature (not just a new processor) like a foldable display? Then Google releases "Grape Yogurt" or whatever they want to call the latest and greatest version of Android which features an updated kernel. Are the HTC users just going to be able to upgrade and still have the display work? Don't think so. Are they going to be pissed that they can't? You bet.

Oh, and doesn't Google have its own Android brand? Nexus right? But I'm sure it's a completely level playing field and whoever gets to make the next Nexus phone won't get any advantages at all over the other handset makers when it comes to access to the latest and greatest Android stuff. ;)

Anyway, yes technically they can change what they want with some limitations but from a practical standpoint they are beholden to Google. Which might kinda suck since Google now owns its own handset maker (Motorola).

Re:The problem with using a commodity OS...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your first two paragraphs can be summed up as "How me an MFG bundled a proprietary driver blob?" and "How me an MFG recompiled my drivers against new SDK?"

I don't know what your post was supposed to show, but it only shows your ignorance about software development. Android is not some monolithic huge piece of code, it's modular just like any big project. Most of the stuff manufacturers might want to do can be done by adding and replacing parts.

I'm completely missing relevance of your stab at Nexus line, and no, I'm pretty sure all OHA partners get early access to latest and greatest Android stuff.

Anyway, single look at Amazon kinda throws whole your argument out of the window.

Traumatized Thunderbolt Users

[Anonymous Coward]

People made true on their promise to never own another HTC phone, after the ongoing disaster with the Thunderbolt... still no official ICS, and it's well into JB time!

I would have already bought a HTC One X if only...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would have already bought a HTC One X if only it had an SDCard slot. This is the number one reason I am still using my old Nexus One phone with a 32GB SDcard. Reason number two was the non-removable battery.

I suspect they did this because they thought "Cloud storage" would be good enough.

I work for a major "Cloud storage" provider, which is exactly why I don't want my data out on the cloud. You should be able to read between the lines to figure out what I'm trying to say here.

The OS doesn't matter

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what Microsoft has failed to realize, and what Samsung and Apple have capitalized on.

They don't sell the OS, and they don't sell the company brand name. iOS updates aren't even tied to hardware announcements anymore. Samsung never even mentions Android or Google in their Galaxy S3 ads. They barely mention the name "Samsung".

They sell the device itself. When the average person walks into a store or clicks through a new contract online, they're looking to buy the new iPhone, not an iOS device or an Apple device, they want an "iPhone". /. of course, in its geeky obsessery over software and pastime of using microsoft as a punching bag, usually misses this. But HTC and Microsoft has missed it as well. No one's going to ask for a "One X" because what the heck is that? No one wants a "Windows 8", because who cares about the OS anymore besides nerds? If Nokia and HTC and Microsoft want to get back into the game they need to start highlighting and marketing their devices. They need to make people want a Lumia, or a new Surface, or a new... a new device brand name altogether for HTC.

Just like people don't buy a Ford, they buy a Mustang, people also don't buy an Apple or a Microsoft. They buy an Ipad or a Nexus 7.

Re:The OS doesn't matter

[Anne Thwacks]

Thank you, but I just dont buy Fords. I buy Nissan, cos I don't want something that leaves a trail of self-tapping screws everywhere it goes.

Not so bad

[dunng808]

I love my HTC One. For many years now, when my cell phone battery goes bad I cannot find one from qualified sources, and the made-in-China crap available on eBay doesn't last a month. Besides, the phone tech is soo outdated I want a new phone, and my provider's plan "forces" the upgrade to be almost free. As in beer, anyway. The One has more memory than I'll ever use, and I have it automatically uploading to Google and DropBox so if I have to delete photos I already have them saved in multiple places.

One reason I chose HTC was their support for professional cycling. So I was a bit pissed when they dropped the team. Now that the sport is eating its tail (I refer to the Lance Armstrong debacle) it will be even harder to get major corporations to sponsor teams. Most recent example: Rabobank, not only a team sponsor but a major sponsor of the Tour of California. Their guy won this year, and now the team is gone. Sad.

Okay...so what's the bottom line?

[Anubis IV]

Losing volume is bad and all, but what effect is this actually having on their profits? When the numbers were reported last quarter, it was estimated that Apple was bringing in 77% of smartphone profits, Samsung had 22%, HTC had 1%, and the rest were in the red with a net loss. If HTC is still profitable then they may very well still be in a better position than some of their competitors who have been losing money hand over fist despite (and in some cases because of) shipping more units.

Note: I'm not defending them or suggesting they're profitable. I'm simply turning the discussion from volume to profit.

Just one point.

[multicoregeneral]

If something declines by -43%, you're counting up, not down.

Fast + Carriers

[markdavis]

What is killing HTC is that:

1) They did not get their flagship devices out fast enough.
2) Their high-end devices are not on enough USA carriers.
3) They didn't advertise enough.

They make really good phones both in the past and present. Samsung is just railroading them by getting their high end model on almost all the carriers and then absolutely blanketing the market with effective advertising.

Re:Fast + Carriers

[Emetophobe]

4) Churning out too many phones (they've released over 12 models/variants so far this year).
5) Not supporting existing phones with updates
6) Beats audio (they spent $300 million buying Beats by Dre, what a massive failure).
7) Locking down their phones
8) Non-removable battery and no sd cards
9) Focusing on thinness instead battery life

The original HTC Evo was nice, and the new One X looks nice, but they made too many variants. They also don't properly support any of them with updates.

Re:Fast + Carriers

[markdavis]

Response to your numbers

4) It is odd that they stated they were going to release less models, which sounded great, and then didn't quite follow that rule.
5) They support their high-end devices very well. No vendor does well with mid/low end phones, period.
6) Beats is a total waste of time, agreed.
7) HTC phones are not locked down more than any other non-Nexus phones.
8) The battery *is* removable, it takes 5 min on the Evo LTE to swap the battery. Sorry again, the Evo LTE has an SD card. But the new Nexus phone won't....
9) Battery life on the One X and Evo LTE is fantastic.

* The original Evo *was* nice for it's time. And the OneX and Evo LTE are nice for this time. Both are properly supported with updates- have no idea why you are hung up on that.

Re:Fast + Carriers

[node159]

no. 5, Really? The HTC Desire HD was definitely one of their high end devices which they said they would provide ICS on, 8 months later the quietly mention that they will go back on their announcement because the phone can't handle it... and what do you know, one month later an unofficial ICS rom comes out that works perfectly fine.

This is how you alienate your user base. My next phone will most definitely not be an HTC and I'm sure as hell making sure other who are looking for a new phone know what HTC did.

Re:Fast + Carriers

[markdavis]

OK, you are right about the Desire HD. But they did great by the Evo OG, Evo 3D, (and several others) and so far the Evo LTE and One X.

Re:Fast + Carriers

[Emetophobe]

The original Evo *was* nice for it's time

It still is nice! The Evo and Nexus S both came out in December 2010 and they both have identical specs (1Ghz cpu with 512MB ram). The difference is my Nexus S has official JB while my buddy's Evo is still on Gingerbread. That's a problem, and there's no reason why the HTC Evo shouldn't get it either, my phone has the same specs and it's still incredibly fast.

You're right though, that's a problem with alot of vendors, not just HTC.

Re:Fast + Carriers

[markdavis]

The primary reason the Evo OG (4G) could not be updated is that it simply didn't have enough internal storage space. HTC couldn't fit ICS + Sense onto it.

bummer

[SeanBlader]

I will be seriously disappointed in consumerism in general if HTC shuts down, they do really solid and impressive hardware, and make outstanding changes to Android to make it more effective and more accessible. People go look at their stuff, it's seriously competitive with Samsung's stuff, and it's better supported after release.

Android and HTC

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Samsung Galaxy NOTE 1. I went to that from an HTC phone - and the reason I chose a samsung was the Battery life.
          I have a Toshiba AT330 - an AWESOME device with Incredible battery life - and a Sony S Tablet - with Quite adequate battery life.

A few times I have looked at HTC's but the battery is always smaller than the other phones - and for me - whiles there are other must haves (memory card slot, good camera, FM radio) a better battery is compelling.
    I cant say why others dont buy HTC - but thats why I moved off them.

Carrier and handset switch ...

[BulletMagnet]

Our company is moving from Sprint to AT&T and we looked at both flagship Android phones (the One X and the S3) ... it was pretty simple - Samsung makes a better phone for our needs: The whole non-user-replaceable battery deal (a first for HTC in this gen of phones) is beyond Apple-lame...why clone that feature? For the amount of use we put into our units, batteries need to be replaced...I already have an extended run battery in mine... Lack of SD card. Portable is better, but I've heard AT&T was the driver on the lack of SD card slot the One X (since the Sprint variant does have one) ... but they let/wanted the Galaxy to have it?

Exactly this

[phorm]

At the time I was phone shopping last year, there were no keyboard-phones that had specs near the GS2. The evo3d came out awhile later but 3d on a phone isn't really a killer feature.
The GS2 is reliable, and hackable. Without competitors offering something to differentiate, I went with Samsung.

HAD HTC offered a competitively powerful phone with extra functionality (like a keyboard), I would have gone for that.
Hopefully they'll pull through and survive to the next lineup. I'd still like to see a keyboard phone for the next gen.

HTC rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

At least that is what I thought until I had to suffer with the thunderbolt. What a piece of crap. I will never buy another HTC again and have been actively steering people away from then for well over a year now.

Re:I would have already bought a HTC One X if only

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect they did this because they thought "Cloud storage" would be good enough.

I work for a major "Cloud storage" provider, which is exactly why I don't want my data out on the cloud. You should be able to read between the lines to figure out what I'm trying to say here.

Plus, AT&T will eventually kick everyone off of the unlimited plans... I got escalated to 3 levels of management, until they said I reached the top level of customer facing management. They told me that simply connecting your phone to a TV with HDMI out is considered tethering!!! They also said simply streaming LOCAL video to your TV with DLNA over wifi is also considered tethering!!! I argued with them for like 5 hours over several phone conversations. (All of which I recorded). I pointed out I only used 3 gigs of data this billing cycle, and they told me they don't care how much data I used, tethering is tethering. Now had I actually tethered and got caught, I would have no problems, but I actually never tethered my phone. I got them to admit that their backend software is 100% bug free, and that their system can 100% detect "tethering". They told me that their system can detect when I use DLNA, when I connect HDMI, etc.While I doubt that is true, when I asked them to show me evidence that I "tethered" they refused, and said that it proprietary information. They told me I have no recourse, as their system is 100% bug free, and is 100% reliable, and 100% accurate. When I pointed out that if I use wifi/DLNA to stream content to my TV, there is ZERO data going on AT&T's mobile network. They said they didn't care, and that was irrelvant. They said that is still tethering. At one point they told me that even if I was right, they reserve the right to modify my plan without my consent without explanation, at any time.

Good

[Miamicanes]

It serves HTC right. Hopefully they OneX taught them a lesson, and next year's models will have batteries that end users can swap/upgrade, microSD sockets, and real two-stage camera buttons.

Seriously. Name one single thing that makes the HTC OneX a better phone than the Galaxy S3. Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. If HTC had given it a two-stage camera button, or even any dedicated camera shutter button AT ALL, at least some people would have been left wringing their hands and agonizing between it and the S3. They didn't, so that's one opportunity to differentiate themselves for roughly 17 cents that HTC squandered.

The OneX has a sealed battery. Right there, they've instantly written off anyone who won't buy a phone that can't be used with a 2800mAH+ battery, and anybody who expects to be able to swap batteries at will. The Galaxy S3 allows you to do both. The OneX allows you to do neither. Strike two.

The OneX doesn't have a microSD card. The Galaxy S3 does. Once again, for the price of something that costs about 12 cents in HTC quantities, they blew it with a large segment of the Android market who won't even give a phone that lacks microSD expansion capabilities a second look.

Let's not forget HTC's nasty habit of releasing monolithic kernels that can't be built from source because the proprietary bits were just ripped out before they shat the source onto the curb and said "here it is". Samsung cleanly separates out their proprietary kernel code as proper loadable kernel modules, just like god and Linus intended. However, I'll only count this as a half-strike against HTC, because historically, they DO at least tend to release new kernels in half the time (or less) that it takes Samsung to release new loadable kernel modules for new kernels. This is a prime example of an area where HTC could spank Samsung... if they were to commit to separating out all of their proprietary bits as proper loadable kernel modules and released automated builds more or less immediately upon getting their hands on Google's new source (and in a "rapidly timely manner" if changes had to be made to fix problems with the automated builds), they'd have a HUGE competitive advantage over Samsung in this regard. They could just release them as unsupported early-access betas, and treat the users at XDA like a vast unpaid QA program.

It's not like HTC is uncreative. The Evo 3D had a very cool & compelling feature. It might not have been all that useful in daily life, but it was definitely a cool feature to have. I know lots of people who didn't really USE it, but I know of very few who genuinely wished their phone didn't have that feature at all. Most of the complaints about it were due to some of the hardware design compromises that were made to keep the cost down by limiting the resolution and bitrate at which you could capture in stereo.

Anyway, the point is that HTC decided to rest on its laurels and release a phone that doesn't suck, but doesn't really do anything BETTER than the Galaxy S3 does. It's basically the same price, targets the same market, and offers nothing to let its owners stand in front of a group of S3 owners and proudly say, "My phone does ______ better than yours does." In the Apple universe, annual incremental upgrades are doled out as the norm, and users applaud politely & line up to buy this year's refinement. In the Android universe, you have to either knock people's socks off and delight buyers every single year, or be content to sell phones that are basically 'free' no-name commodities.

Lest anybody accuse me of being a Samsung fanboy, I'll be the first to say that I *want* HTC to make phones that beat the crap out of Samsung's, because then Samsung will turn around and try harder to make phones that beat the crap out of HTC's. Then I want Google to use Motorola as its bully pulpit to pull the rug out from under both, and raise the hardware stakes even higher with phones that have unlocked bootloaders & make Samsung's and HTC's flagship models look like antiques, the same way the Nexus One did to the phones that came before it.

Re:Good

[kactusotp]

Seriously. Name one single thing that makes the HTC OneX a better phone than the Galaxy S3. Nothing. Nothing whatsoever.

The Camera. Being able to record 1080p video and take 8M photos is huge if you have a kid. Trust me, you want nice photos you can blow up or view full screen but you also want to record incase they do something cute? Now you can do both. Single biggest reason I can not move to another phone. My wife has the XL with 4g, and I'll admit that is probably a better buy than my One X since I don't seem to get as much benefit from the quad core chip but it is a pleasure to dev for too. Other "better" things start to get subjective and include the 25gb bundled drop box for two years, but I really do prefer the build quality on the One series compared to my mates S3. His feels cheap and plastic in comparison. Finally I know I'm going to get flamed for this... but I actually do like sense. >.> yes I know point and laugh but it is nice to use for my mid 30's self. Oh and that screen.... <3

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

The GS3 shoots 1080p and 8MP. What are you talking about?

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung cleanly separates out their proprietary kernel code as proper loadable kernel modules, just like god and Linus intended.

Linus is heavily against binary blob kernel modules. While HTC's methodology is much worse, Samsung is still not going to please Linus.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

hear hear!

I did not even go into the store and try the HTC OneX. I don't care how good the screen is and how much pussy the phone will get me. No removable battery means no purchase.

Re:Good

[AmiMoJo]

It serves HTC right. Hopefully they OneX taught them a lesson, and next year's models will have batteries that end users can swap/upgrade, microSD sockets, and real two-stage camera buttons.

So they tried to make an iPhone and found that only Apple can get away with it.

Re:Good

[walshy007]

Seriously. Name one single thing that makes the HTC OneX a better phone than the Galaxy S3.

The screen. amoled screens suffer from colour shift, burn in and a lesser overall life. The htc one x has an IPS screen that gives far better colour reproduction.

Build quality, the thing feels far sturdier than an s3.

Re:Good

[assassinator42]

Apparently Google hasn't learned from HTC either.
Supposedly the new Nexus phone will have a non-removable battery, 8GB storage, and no microSD slot. (Supposedly a 16GB version will be released later).
At least it has an unlocked bootloader and fast updates, although Google does have an unfair advantage there. But don't expect them to pull the rug out from anyone.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

HTC's fatal mistake is thinking they are competing against Apple instead of Samsung. The intersection of potential iPhone buyers and potential Android buyers is actually very small, something that all Android makers should keep in mind.

Re:Good

[walshy007]

at the same time?

Re:Good

[Miamicanes]

Sigh. It's things like that that make me start to seriously think that Google is losing its way, kind of like Microsoft did between NT and Win2k... the point when the original innovators are now too rich to actually be useful as employees anymore, but are politically untouchable & starting to drag everything else down by virtue of their own de-facto disinterest in their official job... delegating everything they can to people whom they refuse to actually give real decision-making authority, then scrambling to cobble things together at the last minute when push comes to shove before dropping off the earth for days/weeks at a time to go sailing, climb Mt. Everest, visit Antarctica, and travel to Baikonur for a few weeks to see whether they have what it takes (besides a few million dollars) to become a Commercial Cosmonaut.

The Nexus One was groundbreaking. The Nexus S was thoroughly 'meh' (admittedly, compounded by the fact that Sprint took so long to get it, by the time it was available, it literally WAS last year's phone), and the Galaxy Nexus was quickly overshadowed by the Galaxy S3, and equally 'meh' by the time Verizon's exclusivity ended.

Arguably, the fact that Google even ALLOWED Verizon to have exclusivity to both the name and franchise, despite having the gall to lock the phone's bootloader and take a corporate dump on everything it means for a device to BE a "Nexus", is more evidence that someone in their Android group has either completely lost touch with reality, or just plain didn't care because he was too busy training for space camp.

I've said it a thousand times, but what Google really needs to do is just pick various manufacturers' best of breed phones for the "Nexus Treatment", and make it so you'd just go and buy a phone like the Galaxy S3, OneX, or RazrMax, then download Google's official AOSP build for it, plug in the USB cable and connect it to your computer, then blow away the carrier's stock ROM with the official Google-blessed AOSP Nexus kernel and distro for it, instead (kind of like buying a laptop with Windows Starter Edition, then blowing it away with Ubuntu or Mint). Otherwise, Google's going to end up having their whole Nexus platform end up turning into "last year's hardware, slightly reheated and limping along with next year's software".

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

> Name one single thing that makes the HTC OneX a better phone than the Galaxy S3.

The One X has a much better housing that looks and feels solid while the S3 feels '90s with the haphazard plastic sheets.

Broken Window?

[Guppy]

Android is not making money

You know, this is an interesting inversion of the Broken Window fallacy.

In the former, you destroy real value to make imaginary dollars move around. In this case, we have real value being created each time someone finds the software to be useful, even though most players don't earn more than a sliver of profit.

Re:I would have already bought a HTC One X if only

[ColdWetDog]

I argued with them for like 5 hours over several phone conversations. (All of which I recorded).

You need a life, a job and a girlfriend (in more or less that order).

declined by -43%

[Anonymous Coward]

If they "declined by -43%", doesn't that mean they gained by +43%?

Re:declined by -43%

[shiftless]

No

My last 4 phones had been HTC

[Shemmie]

From the Windows Mobile, generic brand days of the HTC Universal (T-Mobile MDA Pro), HTC Advantage (T-Mobile Ameo - 5 inch touch-screen device with a built-in 1.8 inch hard-drive), HTC Touch Dual, and then I moved to Android with them - onto the HTC Desire HD.

All have been great phones in their way (Except the Ameo, which was a lousy phone, but an awesome smartphone in a pre-smartphone world) - and I loved my first step into Android with the Desire HD - a proper flag-ship phone for them, at the time of launch.

But the generic shite they've been releasing recently, with zero innovation, zero risk - it's been cookie-cutter Android phones.

HTC has become a short way of saying 3.7 inch - 4.8 inch touch screen with so-so camera, so-so processor, so-so RAM, no replaceable battery, and no expandable storage. There's nothing really 'wrong' with them, but they're lacking something interesting. For a company that thought "Hey, there might be a market for a 5 inch Windows Mobile 5.0 device wrapped in leather, 2 inches thick, that can only be used as a phone with a Bluetooth headset, with a magnetic bolt-on keyboard" and took the risk to create it in 2007, they've become a risk-averse generic Android manufacturer.

Which is why my new phone is a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 - my first ever Samsung device. It it provides something unique. HTC is no longer unique. They're the beige box of the Android world, currently. I hope they recover - but it's looking unlikely.

a shame

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been a fan of their phones since I picked up their Droid Incredible a few years back. When that died it was replaced with the HTC Rezound. Their interface tends to be better than what other manufactures ruin android with. Plus great feature sets, very solid build quality and a good form factor. I hope they turn around, and not at the expense of their phone quality.

The only other phone that's piqued my interest is the Motorola Droid M, but I already have a phone I like.

Cautionnary tale

[obarthelemy]

for all those urging Nokia to go Android, or lamenting they didn't ?

Re:Cautionnary tale

[occasional_dabbler]

No mod points today, otherwise I'd have +1 Insightfulled you...

Re:Cautionnary tale

[Anonymous Coward]

... Because HTC sells only Android and they don't have a WinPhone 8 promotion right now?..

Re:Cautionnary tale

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate it when idiots post this idiotic logic.Why can't Nokia make Windows Phones AND Android Phones AND Meego phone AND whatever the hell else they want to make. This requirement to be Microsoft's bitch and make nothing but Windows Phones will be the end of this company. The World has spoken and they don't want Windows Phones.

Re:Cautionnary tale

[tuppe666]

for all those urging Nokia to go Android, or lamenting they didn't ?

People say that Nokia should have gone Android because its the Winner OS as opposed to Windows Phone the Loser OS. Even Apple has losing Marketshare to Android 23% to 8%

Maybe Samsung should be a regretful tail to Nokia of what they could have been.

Personally I say no reason why Nokia should have gone exclusive to windows phone not even HTC made that mistake which is why they are still profitable.

Thanks all for the heads up!

[uslurper]

Thanks everyone for the heads-up.
I have an older HTC smartphone and I really like it. An HTC Hero now way outdated and underpowered. Its small when everyone was going big. It has been very reliable, it uses a pretty standard USB connector that ive never had any problems with.

Compare this to my wife's Samsung Moment, we have had to replace the power adapter 5 times because the little conenctor is just too thin to take the abuse of regular use.

I had been looking at buying another HTC but now I probably wont. It's too bad because I really like my phone and the new HTC's look good.

Give me my update and I may be back

[Anonymous Coward]

More poor incredible 2 (not really that old!) is still waiting on an update to ICS...promised a long time ago...based on my experience with HTC, my next phone will not be from them!

$12/month for unlocked pay as u go

[Anonymous Coward]

Skype baby, on a Nokia c6-01. full wifi and bluetooth, great camera, good video. turn by turn gps. symbian all the way, it's sweet. 32Gb phone was $150. great voice quality

Its their lack of Phone Updates

[detain]

HTC phones are very good. The only problem with them that stands out above any others, is their lack of updates to the phones they offer. Their product line seems to come with 1 major android update and then they drop maintaining it and move onto the next model. Most of their phones (after their latest updates to them) at this point are running pre ICS despite being able easily run JB. Some companies, like samsung, have maintained updates to their phones making them or other alternative companies much more desirable. Android itself has undergone alot rapid change and companies like HTC that don't work on keeping up with android releases for all but their newest phones are going to loose all desirability.

miss my EVO

[Anonymous Coward]

I agonized between the GIII and the One. I loved my EVO, but hated its battery life. It was a real eye opener to have a phone die at 2pm because its battery wasn't big enough. After hearing that HTC thought that people wanted thin phones, not ones with big batteries, that pretty much helped me decide. But, man that HTC One looked nice....

HTC distribution

[Anonymous Coward]

HTC has terrible distribution channel. In many countries new HTC phones appears 7 or 8 months after launch, meanwhile you can purchase iPhone pretty much everywhere 3 months after launching. I sent few e-mails to HTC complaining about it and got not a single response.

double negation

[Anonymous Coward]

why oh why is double negation used, supposedly unconcious, in articles like this, where i'd assume an intelligent author. a decline of -43% means and increase of 43%. doesn't anybody get that? it's like the "oh we got -70% off the price" sale bull shit. come on peeps, think it through and accept that a negative decrease means an increase. this ain't geekory biatch!

HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[Taco Cowboy]

RIM is losing ground, but it has the BB encrypted messaging services, and millions of users worldwide are need that particular service.

Nokia, on the other hand, has the brand "Nokia".

HTC is losing more ground than Nokia or RIM simply because of bad designs.

HTC has neither a strong brand name like "Nokia" nor BB's worldwide encrypted messaging service.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[walshy007]

The htc one x international version I find personally better than a samsung galaxy s3, better build quality, way better screen. The catch being 10-20% slower on benchmarks and with half the ram (1gb).

The design did not justify the abysmal sales it received. At present samsung's marketing is second only to apples, all the other mobile manufacturers that are building nice things are being drowned out in the noise.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[rtb61]

What this is all about is Android is a highly competitive market and if you are just a bit out with your specs and your pricing, down you go. HTC was blatantly resting on it's laurels of past glories for to long and got crucified in market share. Now they will have to fight back with discounted pricing, it's just the way the market goes.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[walshy007]

But in some ways, the product was indeed superior (IPS screen etc).

It's just a case of whether you care for those qualities.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[BanHammor]

IPS superior to LED? I believe your mileage may vary.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[Man Eating Duck]

HTC is losing more ground than Nokia or RIM simply because of bad designs.

I have to disagree with you there. My oldish HTC Desire is a marvel of sturdiness and build quality. I also had a Samsung Galaxy S for a while, it's a good phone, but it felt like a cheap, creaking toy compared to the Desire. My next phone will surely be an HTC (probably a One S).

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[walshy007]

AMOLED? hell yes, colour shift and burn in appear in short order on amoled. Mainly the colour shift is the problem.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[teg]

IPS superior to LED? I believe your mileage may vary.

I believe you are talking of OLED, not just LED. In particular, Samsung's AMOLED. LED is frequently used in conjunction with LCD, e.g. on most TVs today.

That said, IPS can indeed be superior to OLEDs for the time being. E.g., the best screen on any cellphone today is on Apple's iPhone 5 - and it is IPS.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[BanHammor]

Yes, I am talking about AMOLED, Samsung Galaxy S3's SuperAMOLED in particular. Yes, iPhone 5's screen has a Retina display, but I like the S3's colour range and contrast better.

Re:HTC is losing ground because of bad designs.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got a 'new' phone to replace my evo-3d, an htc desire. I really like having a keyboard. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO FIND A GOOD KEYBOARD PHONE? The desire is ancient, yet still runs the newest androids great.

One persons experiences

[Anonymous Coward]

My best friend dripped her s3 from her sweatshirt pocket to then ground when sitting down in my car, her screen is spiderwebbed now.

My neice dropped my evo 4g LTE from my parents upstairs to down onto the dining room table (appx 10 feet) and there's not a dent on it.

One persons experiences.

It's not just the battery/sdcard issue

[PARENA]

I had an HTC Desire HD, which came out in October 2010. It was the phone of the moment. Bought an extra battery for holidays and it already came with an 8GB sdcard, very very nice. I bought it in February 2011. In October 2011, Ice Cream Sandwich came out. So, the actual model was 1 year old. Time passed. It was unclear what the update schedule was. Then, in April 2012 or so, it was there: "Yes!", HTC said. "Desire HD will be getting the ICS update!" Finally! About friggin time. May... June... July... HTC: "Oh, no, the best experience is with Android 2.3.x, so we won't update the Desire HD to ICS." Fuck you, HTC. Fuck you twice. I gave up, rooted my DHD and later on I had a fully functional Jelly Bean even. That was the first and last time I got an HTC. I also managed to break it (dropping it from the 3rd floor balcony is a bad idea) and have now moved to a Galaxy S3, since I'm so content with my fully functional Samsung laptop (running openSUSE). I'll let my wallet do the talking and looking at HTC's decline, I'm not the only one.

not really

[Anonymous Coward]

Having travelled and lived thru europe it is not how they advertize iz. For example in France they say "solde ! 20, 30 or 40%!" or "-20% , -30% ou -50% sur les prix!" which is the equivalent of "20% off" and "-20% on price !". I never ever saw "-20% off".

Apple market share 23% to 15% nobody notices

[tuppe666]

Why is nobody reporting on Apples massive losses in marketshare even after the launch of the iPhone5 where are the articles calling the iPhone a failure, and the end of Apple.

Seriously 23% to 15% that is pretty serious.

Re:I would have already bought a HTC One X if only

[walshy007]

I have a htc one x, and have never used 'cloud storage'. The one x comes with 32gb of ssd.. if you actually burn through that quickly in a fast way that doesn't lend itself to dumping data onto another machine at home between uses, I dare say you're probably using a phone for something it shouldn't be.

Not to mention, the read/write speeds of sd are shite compared to ssd, so when it does come time to dump the contents of the sd card, you have a long wait ahead of you.

There can be only one (or two)

[gelfling]

In 2 years you will have a choice of iPhone or Samsung. Choose wisely.

That's what they get for removing the SD card slot

[Anonymous Coward]

I will NOT buy a phone that does not have a card slot. I do not want to store my stuff in the cloud, and then have to use my precious limited data just to access it.

Fuck you, Google and the Carriers, for strongarming phone manufacturers into removing the slot.

Make all of your phones AOSP

[jomcty]

Hey HTC, make all of your Android phones AOSP "Nexus" phones and profit!

Build Quality

[ftumph]

I switched to Samsung from HTC for the reasons stated above (removable battery, SD card), and also because the build quality of my last HTC phone was very poor. Another factor: I may have considered the OneX, but my carrier got the S3 immediately and there's no sign of the OneX...

Why I dont buy an HTC

[Anonymous Coward]

Every HTC I tried to get to work with windows 2003 server exchange would fail, it refused to work no matter what.

You'd have to use touchdown to make it work, which pissed off a few customers as it advertises exchange support.

They didnt fix this in newer phones, either.

At that point, why buy an HTC when you can get a samsung or moto?

Sadly but inevitably: Android has too many vendors

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't surprising; just the laws of economics at play. When you have dozens of HW vendors using the same OS, there is nothing much to differentiate them in the market, and every competitor simply dilutes every other as well as the Android brand itself. Two years ago in Taipei there were over 200 tablets and handsets announced sourced from E Asia (Taiwan, China, Korea). This occurring as Apple was still in ascendency, but far, far more importantly dominating market unit sale profit margins! This latter gets dismissed by too many Android ideologists but economically and financially it's THE metric to look at because it directly indicates which company can afford the best R&D for new models and which company is in the best financial shape. Simply being based in Asia (Taiwan, like HTC) DOES NOT mean you can get by with radically smaller profit margins "because it's cheaper there". I've lived in Taiwan and while many things are a bit cheaper for individuals than the US (things like transportation, healthcare and food), the things that matter for a corporation's health are only marginally cheaper (0%-10% at best).

to maintain political neutrality

[girlinatrainingbra]

I believe that FCC Air regulations require a response so that equal time is provided to the other political party. Ahem:

.

but carriers also suck big fat elephant balls.

.

We now return to our regularly scheduled /. rants and raves.