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Is It Time To Commit To Ongoing Payphone Availability?
jenningsthecat writes "Public payphones seem headed the way of the dinosaur, as noted here on Slashdot 10 years ago, and again by the CBC earlier this year. Reasons typically cited for their demise are falling usage, (thanks to the ubiquitous cell phone), and rising maintenance costs. But during the recent disaster in NYC caused by Hurricane Sandy public payphones proved their worth, allowing people to stay in contact in spite of the widespread loss of both cellular service and the electricity required to charge mobile devices. In light of this news, at least one Canadian news outlet is questioning the wisdom of scrapping payphones. Should we in North America make sure that public pay phones will always be widely available? (After all, it's not as though they don't have additional value-added uses). And, should their continued existence be dependent on corporations whose primary duty is to their shareholders, rather than to the average citizen?"
It's time to both beef up the communications infrastructure to support reliable operation and to commit to helping your neighbors with access to things like a telephone, should you have one that works, during a major catastrophe.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
This is a common problem: emergency and safety systems are completely pointless 99% of the time... until you have an emergency, at which point they're indispensable. It's like the bail-out bag in the closet with the first-aid kit and other necessities for an emergency: for years you wonder why you keep it because you never use it, until that day you didn't see coming when the fire department knocks on the door saying the fire's jumped the line and you've got 15 minutes before it gets here (which has happened here twice since I moved here, so not a theoretical example). Myself, I'd keep pay phones around as one of those necessary emergency expenses, the kind of thing you know you've needed in the past and will need in the future but that you won't have time to get deployed if you wait until you do need it.
Instead of maintaining a system that is practically obsolete we should put the effort into making the newer system more robust.
How about building pico-cells into emergency vehicles with some sort of dedicated wireless backhaul? Figure out how to queue access to cell phones so that even if such a system can only handle 5-10 voice calls at once (due to backhaul bandwidth limits), anyone with a basic cell phone can virtually "wait in line" until it is their turn to talk.
It doesn't have to be limited to emergency vehicles, we could build stand-alone units too that could be battery powered and deployed fairly quickly.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
You also need to remember to keep a non-cordless phone around to use with it. If the power is out and all you have is cordless (as many people do these days), you're still out of luck.
Okay, your cell phone phone is dead. Zombies have taken out the cell towers. It's an urban apocalypse. You're surrounded by evil, and low on gas. And there are no pay phones. How do you get in touch with the mad scientist 500 miles away to get the cure?
It's easy guys: Walk into a commercial building with power and ask to use the phone. In fact, many without power will still have a few POTS lines powered (read: Not digital); but you may have to hunt for them, so if you're trapped in an apparently "dead" building with zombies and cthulu beasts outside, patience and a flashlight will save the day. Just avoid the restrooms.
I know I'm being sarcastic here, but seriously guys -- if you're ever in a true emergency situation, stop and think. House flooded? No fresh water? Think about where fresh water might be -- stop panic'ing and really think. Ding! Toilet reservoir. People get all manner of stupid in a crisis because something they used to depend on suddenly isn't there. Guys, you've got millions of years of evolution that has taught you to be adaptable.. but not a lick of those years is going to do you any good until you calm down.
We don't need pay phones. We need to teach people to be self-reliant, instead of hiding under their desks. The government and emergency services may not always be there for you. Neither will any of your modern conveniences. But there is nothing you need to survive that can't be found within a few miles of wherever you are in an urban environment. Food. Shelter. Water. Medical supplies. And if someone's injured, know first aid! It's not rocket science; Take a course today. And keep a small bug-out bag in your car. Less than $100 and some planning ahead of time and you can not only survive just about any catastrophe but also help the people around you.
Everyone should be doing this. Don't rely on your fucking cell phone, or having access to any phone at all. Don't rely on the government. Rely on you. In an emergency, that's the only person you can rely on.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I couldn't tell you where ANY pay phones around here are. Heck, where you do see a pay phone, it's usually in a neighborhood where you're likely to get mugged or shot if you tried to use it anyway.
That's not necessarily true. Just because VoIP is a kludge compared to TDM or cell switched services, does not mean that the backbone equipment to do it will not be protected by the same backup systems as TDM or cell switches.
However, the tendency not to use POTS copper on new installs would mean that new payphone rollouts would likely not be as protected, not being powered by the POTS lines but rather by a site-local power source, which could even be just grid. So what you say may happen for newer last mile setups, but existing POTS lines would likely be tied to a reliable backbone, VoIP or not.
Someone had to do it.
What about keeping them but enhancing their usability? For instance, combine them with other forms of information services - city info, etc. Or perhaps some corporate partnerships like movie rentals. The phone part would be separate to keep that available if someone else was searching for the latest Star Wars flick...
I would use pay phones but for two things: 1) They require coins which I often don't have, and 2) they generally either refuse to take my coins or take them and then don't let me call. So the top usability improvement that I would like to see is for them to accept payment using a prepaid card like in many European countries.
Not necessarily. The Panasonic system I have uses power from the handsets to power the base station in the event of a power outage. The system has 5 handsets, each of which will provide about 2-3 hours of talk time to the system. That should cover you for emergency calls during most power outages (and even some non-emergency ones).
Save money on your cell phone bill: Republic Wireless
>> "When the old Police Boxes were going out of service, the WWW was a long way off and nobody could have foreseen their reincarnation as help points."
You've made a common mistake. There was only one Police Box, it just somehow managed to appear in numerous places at the same time.
Just add an easement to your city's antenna tower permits that will allow people to put in ham radio repeaters with autopatches.
Individuals will pay for their own transceivers for free (as they have for about a century) and hams will move traffic that can be done simplex to other frequencies.
There are a dozen repeaters in reach of my commute to work. There are naturally in places that don't flood and hams generally have great battery backups connected to them. Further, they don't require the phone systems to work at all. I can reach any ham in the city with mine, no phone line involved.
Folks that are good at this may in fact be near you already:
http://www.qsl.net/races/links.html
And these folk can get you started:
http://www.arrl.org/home
That's all fine and good, but why not just provide a tower with a bunch of powered USB ports for people to stand around and plug into. It can be solar powered with a battery for backup. No power ties would be needed and no hardline. If you really wanted to wire it up, put a few low power cell phone antennas/radios on the top that could easily be replaced when new technology permits. This way you solve the existing infrastructure problem of having tens of thousands of people jamming regular cell towers and give people a place to charge up in emergencies.
The thing is... people have their own displays they carry around with them now. If you wanted to provide a local service to them you'd best serve them by allowing wifi connections and directing them to a web page with that info.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Historically speaking it's the people that band together and help each other in emergencies that do best.
If payphones are gone then how could someone make anonymous, untraceable calls (if need be)?
Long ago, society forgot that there could ever be a need for such a thing. Ironically, the same police forces that ask for anonymous tips about criminal activity also attacked anonymity systems, claiming that they would only be used by criminals.
Palm trees and 8
The higher the technology, the bigger fall when it fails in a disaster.
you cant overengineer everything.
keeping around low tech backups is never bad, and is cheaper too.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
This is actually pretty typical after most disasters. SMS is the most reliable way to get messages back and forth. It can be a high-latency channel for communication, but the message eventually gets delivered. By contrast, a voice call requires a continuous channel that is hard to maintain when everybody is trying to place calls.
None of which helps if the cell tower isn't there anymore or has no power, of course, but with the cell tower density in most places, that's probably not a huge concern unless you're out in the middle of nowhere.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
That's not necessarily true. Just because VoIP is a kludge compared to TDM or cell switched services, does not mean that the backbone equipment to do it will not be protected by the same backup systems as TDM or cell switches.
However, the tendency not to use POTS copper on new installs would mean that new payphone rollouts would likely not be as protected, not being powered by the POTS lines but rather by a site-local power source, which could even be just grid. So what you say may happen for newer last mile setups, but existing POTS lines would likely be tied to a reliable backbone, VoIP or not.
Actually there is more truth to it than you think. In my territory, once a land line is converted to a VOIP based service the local telco will no longer provide POTS to that household. You can cancel the voip, or re order voip service but you are not eligible to purchase POTS service any longer. At least that's how they explained it to me when I upgraded to voip.
On the upside, the features like call block that used to be available on POTS are once again available on digital. Pity it's just a marketing ploy, though.
I believe the justification they gave was they replaced the line to the house with fiber, and would no longer be maintaining the old copper line required for standard POTS.
Except that's not the way it works. The telcos want the wired land lines to go away because of the overhead. That means that they have policies that make it difficult, if not impossible, to keep your wired line.
For example, most telcos won't activate service on any form of fiber-based connection without permanently severing your ability to get a dial tone on the original wired-line service at that address. So you have a choice: high speed Internet service above DSL speeds or wired voice. You can't have both unless you have a multi-unit dwelling and can add the high speed Internet service to the second unit.
For many people, it has nothing to do with saving a few bucks.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Not when the emergency involves a hurricane knocking over trees which then fall on and break those twisted-pair lines. Then a cell phone is going to have a better chance of getting to 911.
I believe the justification they gave was they replaced the line to the house with fiber, and would no longer be maintaining the old copper line required for standard POTS.
Sounds like a reasonable justification to me. You called and had them replace the copper with fiber so you could get internet faster, then you want them to put the copper back? It's not economically justifiable. At some point in transitioning, they'll have also pulled the copper distribution system from the CO to your neighborhood and put in fiber, so it would be a really large expense to run a copper pair all the way just for you.
Maybe the mistake was going with the telco for VoIP when there are other providers who aren't pseudo-monopolies and don't need to pull your old copper lines?
On the other hand, for real emergencies 911 works even on a "dead" twisted-pair line.
If there is no battery on your "twisted pair line", then there is no way for the phone to signal to the CO that it needs dial tone, and the reason for no battery is most likely because your pair has been disconnected from the CO altogether. Most likely, the pair out of the CO that goes to your local distribution box has been put in use for someone else.
I'd like to know how you think you can make any calls on such a line, much less 911 in an emergency.
Get rid of the old payphones and install satellite phones...
OR
Make the electrical grid and cell phone towers more robust to disasters and conduct system stress tests.
Sounds like a reasonable justification to me. You called and had them replace the copper with fiber so you could get internet faster, then you want them to put the copper back? It's not economically justifiable.
It's usually not justifiable to remove the copper at all. NYC has dead copper in the same conduits as the fiber, some dating back to the 1800's [with paper insulation]. With the price of copper these days, that may change in the future.
At some point in transitioning, they'll have also pulled the copper distribution system from the CO to your neighborhood and put in fiber, so it would be a really large expense to run a copper pair all the way just for you.
It may not go all the way to the CO but only to the local pedestal [where fiber-to-the-curb becomes copper].
Maybe the mistake was going with the telco for VoIP when there are other providers who aren't pseudo-monopolies and don't need to pull your old copper lines?
In CA, sonic.net [not shilling] is running fiber-to-the-home in some municipalities. They are [probably] just adding fiber in parallel because the copper is actually owned by AT&T.
Actually, copper ownership is a bit murky. IIRC, when AT&T wired much of America in the late 1950's, it did so under a consent degree, paid for with U.S. tax dollars, so the copper could be considered a publicly owned resource.
Like a good neighbor, fsck is there
The most reliable and robust communication systems are often the simplest.. In disaster zones, n-way radio is often the most reliable electronic communications. perhaps cellphones should have a p2p mode that kicks in when it can't get on the cellnet..