GM Brings IT Dev Back In House; Self-Driving Caddy In the Works

Free dystopia by concealment · 2012-11-06 01:52 · Score: 4, Funny

I'm fond of Detroit, but it's worth mentioning that it could be a set from Blade Runner.

Re:Free dystopia by boristdog · 2012-11-06 02:27 · Score: 4, Informative

Fun Fact: Much of Robocop 2, ostensibly set in Detroit, was filmed in Houston. I have no idea why. Probably because of winter, though, which only marginally exists in Houston.
Re:Free dystopia by tgd · 2012-11-06 02:28 · Score: 2

I'm fond of Detroit, but it's worth mentioning that it could be a set from Blade Runner.
Well, on the upside, if you enjoy having variety in your living situation, you can buy a whole block fairly easily. You can have a house for every day of the week!
Re:Free dystopia by lennier1 · 2012-11-06 02:33 · Score: 4, Funny

In part because due to the high crime rate the real place has become too dangerous to film a movie there about a dystopian crime-ridden Detroit.
Re:Free dystopia by neokushan · 2012-11-06 02:36 · Score: 1

Can you provide a source to this? Because I'd absolutely love for it to be true.

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Re:Free dystopia by Creepy · 2012-11-06 03:57 · Score: 1

You can probably find it via search. I remember Detroit ranked #2 on a Huffington Post list of most crime ridden places in America. Relatively close up Hwy 75 to Flint Michigan was #1 (I went to Troy as part of a job, which is in between the two up Hwy 75), and St Louis Missouri was #3. I think #4 was Memphis, not sure of #5.
Re:Free dystopia by neokushan · 2012-11-06 04:06 · Score: 1

Oh absolutely, I don't doubt that - what I meant was, is there a source to say that FILMING there was too dangerous, specifically relating to the Robocop reboot?

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+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
Re:Free dystopia by darjen · 2012-11-06 06:24 · Score: 2

I live in Cleveland, where our motto is... "At least we're not Detroit"
Re:Free dystopia by ItsJustAPseudonym · 2012-11-06 06:26 · Score: 1

Dallas, not Houston. They just had the an event for the 25th anniversary of the movie, there.
Re:Free dystopia by Pseudonym+Authority · 2012-11-06 08:32 · Score: 1

Well, I don't know about the crime rate, but there are areas of Detroit that are ruled by feral dogs. I'd imagine that that would stop production.

Oh boy... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-06 01:55 · Score: 5, Funny

Ford ... is betting big on voice recognition.

A driver gets cut off, yells "fucking asshole!"
Car: "Now fucking your asshole"

Re:Oh boy... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-06 02:21 · Score: 1

"Why is no one using our trolly system anymore? This is San Francisco!"
Re:Oh boy... by davester666 · 2012-11-06 06:13 · Score: 1

Those aren't trollies. They are streetcars, one of which is named "Desire".

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I'm here! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-06 01:56 · Score: 1

The great thing about Detroit is that it is *always* on the comeback but never actually back. They built the "Renaissance" how long ago?

But, really, we are at rock bottom. Even though housing prices are way up, they are still just 80 percent of what they were in 2000. I bought a mansion in 2011 and now it is worth about $70k more than I paid for it (which was a pittance).

As long as you stay in the nice places of the metro area, this is a nice place to live and the most affordable. Just get used to 8 months of winter followed by muggy summer.

Re:I'm here! by Jonah+Hex · 2012-11-06 07:12 · Score: 1

I'm here too, and frankly I do better working from home (administering/migrating/packaging Windows servers/desktops no less) than I do in the local job market. Detroit/Michigan is some good press and a whole lot of nothing, especially thanks to the gutting of the film industry. Detroit automotive also won't listen to anyone NOT from Detroit, except maybe Germany, they completely ignore working with California and other tech folks. I'd leave the state but I've got family and friends here. - HEX

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Target Market by Nerdfest · 2012-11-06 01:56 · Score: 2

The Cadillac still seems to be targeted at old people, and based on the way I see most driven, self driving Cadillacs will be a huge benefit to motorists everywhere. The last time I saw the interior of one, it looked like all navigation and controls had been made large enough to be operated by someone with extremely poor vision. I shuddered. Yes, I realize most of them have a lot of power, but it's exceedingly rare that one is driven like it has.

Re:Target Market by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-11-06 02:18 · Score: 2

The Cadillac target market seems to be eerily similar to the cognac target market: a combination of old, at least vaguely affluent, white guys and young hip-hop aspirants. I don't know how it happened.
Re:Target Market by tgd · 2012-11-06 02:29 · Score: 2

The Cadillac still seems to be targeted at old people, and based on the way I see most driven, self driving Cadillacs will be a huge benefit to motorists everywhere. The last time I saw the interior of one, it looked like all navigation and controls had been made large enough to be operated by someone with extremely poor vision. I shuddered. Yes, I realize most of them have a lot of power, but it's exceedingly rare that one is driven like it has.
If Cadillac sold a self-driving car for $100k, I'd be in line day one for it, and I'm not old. I just have a very long, stop-and-go, miserable commute. It'd be worth every penny of that kind of price, if not just for my long term sanity.
Re:Target Market by gstoddart · 2012-11-06 02:39 · Score: 4, Funny

The Cadillac target market seems to be eerily similar to the cognac target market: a combination of old, at least vaguely affluent, white guys and young hip-hop aspirants. I don't know how it happened.
Price, and marketing. Cadillac has always been sold as up-market luxury. Hell, the name is almost synonymous with luxury in America ... "this is the Cadillac of (item)" conveys quality and luxury.
So the slightly older and affluent folks are the obvious choices because they have the money to buy one, and because older affluent folks have always bought Cadillacs. That's how they know they're affluent. :-P
I think that carried over into the nouveau riche because of the same cachet ... in some circles, if you've made it, you drive a Cadillac. And, since they tend to make larger cars, people who need a little room (like pro athletes) go for them.
I largely think of them as for old men, wise guys (think Sopranos), people who want to put 21" rims, and mommy-tanks (the Escalade).
For me though, it's one of the last vehicles I'd want to own, but that's just personal taste. They're mostly massive cars.
Though, it is always amusing to see a Cadillac or a Hummer that someone has pimped out with huge rims and massive amounts of chrome -- there's a Hummer H3 in my area which has the most gigantic chrome spinners I've ever seen, and every piece that could be chromed has been. Seen the same thing applied to Caddies as well.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Target Market by Lord+Grey · 2012-11-06 02:50 · Score: 2

You clearly have not test driven a Cadillac CTS-V. 556hp V8, 0-60mph in 4.0 seconds. Not a track car, but it gets the job done.
Some of the "slightly older and affluent folks" appreciate that.

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// Beyond Here Lie Dragons
Re:Target Market by stabiesoft · 2012-11-06 02:52 · Score: 1

Maybe about a decade ago. Caddy changed focus with the GEN-I sigma platform CTS/CTSV. The GEN-II sigma platform in 08 on the CTS and 09 CTS-V was aimed squarely at BMW 5/M5. In fact until the new M-5 this year, the M was trounched by the CTSV. Now the new ATS is aimed at the 3 series with a V version probably out next year. The new GEN-III CTS is due out next year with a V version probably the year after. The MRC's in the ATS and CTS-V are amazing. They offer a very firm planted ride while not being overly harsh. Most car rags describe the bmw's with the firm sport suspension as being too harsh of a ride, and the regular suspension is not as planted as the caddy's MRC's. So no I think your incorrect in thinking caddy is still targeting old people. Shoot even the bieb's (cringe) has a CTSV coupe in his stable.
Re:Target Market by Nerdfest · 2012-11-06 02:57 · Score: 4, Funny

That would be especially awesome on a stock car track, with the left turn signal left on.
Re:Target Market by gstoddart · 2012-11-06 03:13 · Score: 1

You clearly have not test driven a Cadillac CTS-V
You're absolutely correct, with a list price of FROM $64,515 - $74,910, it's a lot more than I'd spend on a car unless I suddenly became a lot more well off. And in that price range, BMW has some fine offerings.
And, really, my perception is that, like most North American cars ... it can go hella fast in a straight line, but can't corner worth shit. I'm sure that's not true any more, but the few Cadillacs I've ever driven in have that overly mushy ride which I can't stand.
Hell, I could probably buy two really nicely equipped cars for the price of a single Cadillac, and I've not reached the point where I'd entertain spending the kind of money we're talking about on a car. Then again, I want all wheel drive and cargo space ... so a Subaru Outback would suit my tastes a little better. :-P

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Target Market by iamgnat · 2012-11-06 04:11 · Score: 1

You're absolutely correct, with a list price of FROM $64,515 - $74,910, it's a lot more than I'd spend on a car unless I suddenly became a lot more well off. And in that price range, BMW has some fine offerings.
Actually it is an exceptional price for what it is compared to the German options. Speaking of BMW the CTS-V is a competitor with the M5 which costs about a third more. If you are looking for a high performance (but not track) coupe or sedan, it shouldn't be ignored. And here in the States if you want a bad ass wagen then it's the only game in town. Unfortunately the wagen's cargo area is ridiculously small and the horrid MPG made it a non-starter for me when I needed a new "traveling with the dogs and kid, but have fun the rest of the time" car.

And, really, my perception is that, like most North American cars ... it can go hella fast in a straight line, but can't corner worth shit. I'm sure that's not true any more, but the few Cadillacs I've ever driven in have that overly mushy ride which I can't stand.
This is still true for most American "sports" cars, but GM has been doing wonders with the Vette for a few years now so that it is actually a real competitor on the track and they took much of that knowledge into the CTS-V. It performs on par with the BMWs (and I'd argue better than the Mercs).
Personally I like the German cars as they fit what I want the best, but the CTS-V is nothing to ignore simply because it's American.
Re:Target Market by gstoddart · 2012-11-06 04:32 · Score: 1

If you are looking for a high performance (but not track) coupe or sedan, it shouldn't be ignored. And here in the States if you want a bad ass wagen then it's the only game in town. Unfortunately the wagen's cargo area is ridiculously small and the horrid MPG made it a non-starter for me
Hmmm ... so it's bad ass because it's fast, but not because it's any use as a wagon? Lousy cargo space and horrible MPG aren't exactly selling points -- in fact, they're kind of the opposite.

Personally I like the German cars as they fit what I want the best, but the CTS-V is nothing to ignore simply because it's American.
Not because it's American, but because it's well out of my price range, and nothing like what I'd be looking for in the first place -- mostly because I'm not qualified to drive 500+ HP of car. A friend took me for a drive in his M5 once, and I quickly realized that would be way too much car for me even if I could afford one. :-P

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Target Market by iamgnat · 2012-11-06 05:05 · Score: 1

Hmmm ... so it's bad ass because it's fast, but not because it's any use as a wagon? Lousy cargo space and horrible MPG aren't exactly selling points -- in fact, they're kind of the opposite.
"bad ass" meaning it handles well and yes is fast. I agree that the lack of cargo space in a wagen and the overall poor MPG is the opposite of a selling point which is why I said it was a non-starter for me. I like the idea of it and it really does drive like I want a performance based car to drive, but it just fails in the more important aspects of what I needed. There is just something about a 500hp wagen that makes me want one though ;-)

Not because it's American, but because it's well out of my price range, and nothing like what I'd be looking for in the first place -- mostly because I'm not qualified to drive 500+ HP of car. A friend took me for a drive in his M5 once, and I quickly realized that would be way too much car for me even if I could afford one. :-P
The implication was that one is considering that price range (and higher) vehicle (which you specifically already said that you weren't) and my point was that if you are considering something like the M5 then the CTS-V shouldn't be ignored. Personally if I had that type of cash to spend I'd still take the new M5 though as I think it's still the better car.
While I considered the CTS-V (until I saw it's cargo "space"), all our vehicles are sub-300hp which is more than enough for us to still have fun when we want (and more than is needed outside of the rare Auto-X events we run).
Re:Target Market by cayenne8 · 2012-11-06 05:27 · Score: 1

You clearly have not test driven a Cadillac CTS-V. 556hp V8, 0-60mph in 4.0 seconds. Not a track car, but it gets the job done.
You know..if I was to get something with the guts of a Corvette underneath...I think I'd want the exterior to look like one too.
Those caddie's are freakin' FUGLY....

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:Target Market by gstoddart · 2012-11-06 05:42 · Score: 1

There is just something about a 500hp wagen that makes me want one though ;-)
I was out in front of the office one day, and saw a fairly mundane looking Benz wagon parked out front ... then I saw the 6.3L badge on it, then I noticed the size of the brakes and the AMG logo as well.
By the time I googled it and realized it was a 500+ HP station wagon, I was in awe.
I can only imagine the bandwidth of that station wagon full of mag-tape. And your kid will never be late for a soccer game. ;-)
I absolutely get why a 500hp wagon automatically sounds awesome. I'll never be able to afford one, but the sheer wow factor is pretty amazing.

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Re:Target Market by iamgnat · 2012-11-06 06:11 · Score: 1

I can only imagine the bandwidth of that station wagon full of mag-tape.
I think that reference wins this thread. Well played sir. Well played.
;-)
Re:Target Market by R3d+M3rcury · 2012-11-06 08:05 · Score: 1

You clearly have not test driven a Cadillac CTS-V. 556hp V8, 0-60mph in 4.0 seconds.
And 16 MPG!
No thanks.

Fears of Self-Driving Cars by MyLongNickName · 2012-11-06 01:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

I love the idea of self-driving cars. I will talk about it with people and frequently, I will get the response "the idea of computers driving scares me". My response: "the idea of humans driving cars scares me more".

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Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by mwvdlee · 2012-11-06 02:07 · Score: 1

How about the idea of cars driven by computers created by humans?

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Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Errol+backfiring · 2012-11-06 02:08 · Score: 2

Not me. I'm a programmer. Most humans have had a mom who, without any commercial "efficiency need", devoted years and years into raising a sensible human who is capable of responding to anything unexpected. A lot of programs do have a commercial "drive" that causes them to be released into the wild long before they are mature and up to the task they should be able to perform. I might trust an open source program, but only if I could test it first in some kind of emulator. Acceptance testing with your life is just not, well, acceptable.

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Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by SJHillman · 2012-11-06 02:12 · Score: 2

I was involved in a big debate about this. A lot of people said that even if self-driving cars were proven to have a fraction of the accident rate of human drivers, people still wouldn't trust them because of those few times something *could* go wrong. It makes no logical sense, but I suppose it's similar to flying in an airplane (which is also significantly safer than driving, statistically) - it's that lack of control that's the scary part. If something goes wrong, you want to be the one controlling it.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by h4rr4r · 2012-11-06 02:32 · Score: 2

Still easier to verify and test than a human.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by h4rr4r · 2012-11-06 02:33 · Score: 1

All humans have reaction times that suck. All humans will have periods when that time is even longer or they are distracted.
I agree open source would be best.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Kjella · 2012-11-06 02:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

A lot of people said that even if self-driving cars were proven to have a fraction of the accident rate of human drivers, people still wouldn't trust them because of those few times something *could* go wrong.
Many if not most accidents are caused by someone being careless, stupid, tired, distracted, drunk or high. That means most people most of the time think they're driving much safer than average, either because they're not any of the things above or think they're not - that particularly applies to careless and stupid. To gain public acceptance you must beat "idealized" humans, that even if you're cautious, forward thinking, well rested, alert, sober and in every way fit to drive a car an AI has 360 degree vision, millisecond reaction time and all sorts of advantages that you can't beat. You're not competing against the actual accident rate, you're fighting people's perceived - and often imaginary - risk of an accident.

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Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by jabberw0k · 2012-11-06 02:38 · Score: 1

Airplane control systems need not concern themselves with discerning between a ball bouncing across the road (probably to be followed by a child) and a bouncing discarded Big Gulp (to be followed only by a raccoon)... nor are they concerned with whether it is better to brake, or accelerate, or where to pilot the vehicle in the case of the aforementioned ball. Nor are they concerned with attempting to guess which, if any, of the pedestrians on a crowded sidewalk might suddenly jaywalk, or drop a bag of groceries into the street. Show me, please, a computer that could even begin to do any of that, and then we can talk about self-driving cars.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Eevee · 2012-11-06 02:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

...a sensible human who is capable of responding to anything unexpected.
It must be nice wher you live, 'cause around here the typical driver's response to anything unexpected seems to be to crash. Actually, for a lot of drivers, the response to expected things seems to be to crash as well.

Acceptance testing with your life is just not, well, acceptable.
You do realize you're doing acceptance testing of every driver around you all the time, right?
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by alen · 2012-11-06 02:42 · Score: 2

planes fly in an almost straight line
see how a computer drives in NYC where people are always cutting you off, the lane paint is almost gone, etc
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Kjella · 2012-11-06 02:44 · Score: 1

Well, people take flights every day in airliners that at (at least, part of the way) being flown by computers via autopilot - but no one seems to be very concerned. I think, when we talk about self-driving vehicles, people are getting the impression that these vehicles are going to be driving around with absolutely no human intervention whatsoever. Is that really the case, or are we actually talking about something like engaging an autopilot once the car has left the driveway or local streets?
For a flight take-off and landing are the two most dangerous parts of the flight, cruising on autopilot at altitude is very safe. For cars it's pretty much the opposite, sure you can bruise a bumper in your driveway but pretty much all the nasty accidents happen underway.

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Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by meta-monkey · 2012-11-06 02:47 · Score: 2

Baby steps. Perhaps the first self-driving systems would only be permitted on highways where there are no pedestrians (or if there are, they're there in violation of traffic laws).

Five monotonous hours on the interstate? Self-drive.

Five blocks on city streets? Drive yourself.

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Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by DriveDog · 2012-11-06 02:47 · Score: 1

When I read about the Google cars that drive around with a human behind the wheel just in case, I KNOW that in the real world, people will be reading the newspaper, watching videos, taking naps, anything BUT monitoring what the car is doing. Usually aircraft only encounter heavy traffic near ports, while autos encounter it everywhere, and even on the empty back roads, a deer might just jump out from the ditch unexpectedly. I love the idea of having my car take me to work, but I don't trust that I'll pay attention the entire time. If I did, why would having the car drive be of much use? I suppose the likely middle ground is that the car drives, but there are a multitude of independent sensors and alarms that engage the human in potentially dangerous situations. I don't trust that the other guy is going to wake up in time.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by phoebus1553 · 2012-11-06 02:56 · Score: 2

but I suppose it's similar to flying in an airplane (which is also significantly safer than driving, statistically) - it's that lack of control that's the scary part. If something goes wrong, you want to be the one controlling it.
Then I suggest you never fly in a modern commercial airliner. From an uncle's stories flying many an Airbus for United, you have 0 ability to perform an evasive maneuver in one that is outside the bounds of 'comfort for the passengers.' Want to throw it into a dive or a hard corner? Nope, that must be an incorrect command from the yoke, we'll just go ahead and give you the predetermined limit for that action instead. Here you go, a nice steady decline, that's what you really meant.
Your garden variety Cessna isn't in that category, but those big ones you've actually been in are worse than a car for absolute control.

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Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Izmunuti · 2012-11-06 02:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

While oftware bugs will probably cause some catastrophic accidents from self-driving cars, in the grand scheme of things they would probably be safer.
What will really kill them in the US, at least, is lawyers. If I rear-end someone, who's at fault? Me, and my insurance company gets to pay. When a computer-driven Google-car rear-ends someone, who's at fault. Me? Nah, I was half-asleep, listening to music, brushing my teeth, watching videos, etc. _I_ wasn't driving. Hey, Google wrote the software....they have a lot of money....
Case in point: the media coverage and lawsuits of the supposed Prius accelerator malfunction. That was just a single drive-by-wire element. A fully autonomous car will get trampled flat by the thundering herds of lawyers.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Speare · 2012-11-06 02:58 · Score: 1

Obviously, lots of testing is going on, and will continue to go on. They use a methodology a lot more reasonable than your "I need to test-drive it" sensibilities, but yes, you'll be able to test drive before you buy your own autocar.
Walk into any Wal*Mart, Tesco, or other low-end mass market department store. Look at the way they communicate, how they decide on things to buy, and how they deal with navigating the aisles. Realize that over half of the people you see in that store drove cars to get there. Rethink your position that most people were raised to be a sensible human.
In other words, remember that half of humanity is below average.

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Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by DerekLyons · 2012-11-06 03:06 · Score: 1

Not me. I'm a programmer. Most humans have had a mom who, without any commercial "efficiency need", devoted years and years into raising a sensible human who is capable of responding to anything unexpected. A lot of programs do have a commercial "drive" that causes them to be released into the wild long before they are mature and up to the task they should be able to perform.

Acceptance testing with your life is just not, well, acceptable.
This.

Self driving cars are a foray into something never really seen before commercially - near or beyond Space Shuttle levels of reliability, in real time, operating a wide variety of hardware (makes and models of car), in a stunningly wide range of operating environments (weather and traffic conditions). I'm not filled with optimism.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by slew · 2012-11-06 03:26 · Score: 1

Most humans have had a mom who, without any commercial "efficiency need", devoted years and years into raising a sensible human who is capable of responding to anything unexpected...
There are humans that didn't have moms, or humans that had moms that didn't raise sensible beings, and many human aren't particularly capable of responding to unexpected driving events (in the various mental states that they choose to drive), yet the state still issues these humans driver's licences, and people willingly get into cars with those humans as drivers.
The point of fear that many folks have about turning their lives over to machines is that folks don't feel that they can predict what they will do, or if they will be ultimatly responsible for the failures that occur as a result of the machines action. Some people had the same fears about "horseless carriages". It's not that these fears are unfounded, but sadly the risk is just the price of progress. Some folks jumped on those "horseless carriages" right away, others never did and treat them as the encarnation of the devil, but most folks waited until the tech was shown to be useful and affordable until they jumped in and as a result in the USA we have 8 cars for every 10 people...
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by SJHillman · 2012-11-06 03:37 · Score: 1

From a passenger's perspective, they have just as much control in an Airbus as they do in a Cessna - zero. It's that lack of control (as a passenger) that makes people nervous when flying that is analogous to being a passenger in a self-driving car.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by RaceProUK · 2012-11-06 03:38 · Score: 1

The first steps have already been taken - see VW's City Emergency Brake. Other manufacturers are developing similar tech.

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No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by modmans2ndcoming · 2012-11-06 03:47 · Score: 1

Try reading up on the advancements in this area of computer science. They have a JonnyCab level of tech right now.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by modmans2ndcoming · 2012-11-06 03:48 · Score: 1

what are you talking about? They land on auto-pilot all the time.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by morgauxo · 2012-11-06 04:49 · Score: 1

Somebody still reads newspapers?
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by cayenne8 · 2012-11-06 05:34 · Score: 1

I love the idea of self-driving cars. I will talk about it with people and frequently, I will get the response "the idea of computers driving scares me". My response: "the idea of humans driving cars scares me more".
Not me...
Frankly, I've never owned anything in my life but two seater sports cars....driving is FUN to me....
Maybe if you bought cars that were solely for utilitarian use, you might find joy in it too?
Every day I fire up the engine and scream out onto the road...it is an adventure for me waiting to happen.

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by cayenne8 · 2012-11-06 05:36 · Score: 2

Try reading up on the advancements in this area of computer science. They have a JonnyCab level of tech right now.
What....the driver crackles and immediately catches on fire if there is a wreck????

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Belial6 · 2012-11-06 06:10 · Score: 2

I think you are vastly over estimating the "mom" goal in raising humans. We are are decades into the "MY happiness is important, so don't bother me." era.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Belial6 · 2012-11-06 06:11 · Score: 2

Virtually anything that the car cannot stop for is going to happen fast enough that most humans would not respond in time even if they were actively driving.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by Vancorps · 2012-11-06 09:08 · Score: 1

Especially since computers don't get tired, hungover, drunk, angry, or distracted
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by DriveDog · 2012-11-06 11:55 · Score: 1

I see "drivers" frequently holding a newspaper across the steering wheel. But maybe it's just to catch the drips from the lunch they're eating.
Re:Fears of Self-Driving Cars by modmans2ndcoming · 2012-11-07 16:00 · Score: 1

Last three flights I was on landed on auto....from the mouth of the captain.

Ad by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-06 02:00 · Score: 1

What is this, an advertisement for Detroit?

Self driving Caddys for old people by fustakrakich · 2012-11-06 02:02 · Score: 3, Funny

With turn signals that are always on? And will they remind the "driver" where he is going and why?

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Re:Self driving Caddys for old people by nschubach · 2012-11-06 02:36 · Score: 1

And will they remind the "driver" where he is going and why?
You are going to your in-laws because you hate yourself.
You are going to the store because you need food to live.

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Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Re:Self driving Caddys for old people by fustakrakich · 2012-11-06 02:49 · Score: 1

You are going to the store because you need food to live.
That reminds me, they're going to need a self driving shopping cart also. First stop? Depends...

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“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”

Nice places to visit also... by RocketScientist · 2012-11-06 02:03 · Score: 3, Informative

Michigan is a beautiful state. Once you clear Detroit you get a sportsman's paradise with fishing, camping, and hunting in some very scenic and well tended state and county parks. The summers are very temperate (rarely gets into the mid 90's) and the humidity is pretty comfortable.

The winters are...more interesting. Not horrible, but lots of snow and cold.

Re:Nice places to visit also... by vlm · 2012-11-06 02:28 · Score: 1

Basically, its Wisconsin, but with a couple more feet of lake effect snow, and the eyesore / mindsore of Detroit. Wisconsin has a couple neighborhoods in Milwaukee and Racine and to a lesser extent Madison that you need to stay away from and those neighborhoods drag our demographic stats down, but at least we don't have an entire city as a sacrifice zone (although Milwaukee is getting worse every decade). I believe Wisconsin has something like 10 lakes for every 1 lake in Michigan.
You can get the best of both worlds by living in the U.P.
Also the midwest is very cheap, which is great if you have a decent job. You'll get offered about 25% less than a sand state salary. Don't worry about it... my house costs about 1/10th of the equivalent in Mountain View, although the crime rate here is lower and we have better schools and no traffic/commute problems. Your average computer grunt in the midwest has roughly the same quality of life / lifestyle as a sand state executive.
Culturally / Racially its about 90% like being in the German Black Forest except we speak English. I kid you not. Lots of old German guys with carpentry stuff in their garage like my neighbor and pristine front lawns and little old ladies baking pies and stuff. Lots of tourist traps and ethnic food restaurants. There's so many German restaurants in WI they don't even consider German to be ethnic food, everybody, even the illegals, eats brats and saurkraut and and drinks weiss beer.
Also see the three month long summer festival season in Milwaukee. Not my thing, but millions will crowd the lakefront every year to drink $8 beers and peoplewatch.
From a religious standpoint its not like the "south" at all. We have lots of Lutherans who behave in a much more civilized manner than the stereotypical southern state evangelical.

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"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Re:Nice places to visit also... by PPH · 2012-11-06 04:35 · Score: 1

Yeah. But you can't drive only a couple of hundred miles and get from desert, through alpine wilderness (good skiing and hiking) to an ocean. With a huge salt water sound that has lots of great places to sail, scuba dive, etc.

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Have gnu, will travel.
Re:Nice places to visit also... by jsrjsr · 2012-11-06 05:42 · Score: 1

Plenty of software folks who make over 80K in Wisconsin. IT directors and CEO's make way more than that. I live near West Bend. My commute takes me 20 minutes in the winter. You've a twisted image of Wisconsin -- makes me wonder if you have ever even lived near here.
Re:Nice places to visit also... by SonnyDog09 · 2012-11-06 05:45 · Score: 1

No, we don't have an ocean. But, we do have the Great Lakes, which contain 20% of the world's fresh water. I've actually done offshore sailing on Lakes Huron, Michigan and Erie. The upper peninsula of Michigan contains great wilderness areas for hiking and hunting. We don't have a desert, though.

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Your "fair share" is NOT in my wallet.
Re:Nice places to visit also... by vlm · 2012-11-06 06:17 · Score: 1

but you will know no one from IT director to to CEO that makes 80k
LOL! Thats hilarious! If your job involves, say, doing anything in a IDE thats about right at least for entry level, maybe a little high for zero experience. If you actually know what you're doing, thats probably about right. High end experienced admin, sure, as opposed to low end helpdesk replacing broken mice. Noob 1st level lead or foreman/supvr is right around that pay range. Noob to mid-range DBA like about "I know how to type CREATE INDEX" level. A guy who actually knows what he's doing with a router, like if you know the prioritization of routes in BGP and how to manipulate them to bend to your will, or can understand a show database of a OSPF area (like CCNP level not so much CCNA level)
There are no "director" level personnel below $100K at any place I've worked since the 90s.

45k a good salary
LOL I resemble that remark... two decades ago at my first "real" job. Pay raises come fast in the early years, not so fast anymore.
I will say that the bigger the company the higher the pay. So you probably can find an IT guy working practically as a volunteer at a startup. But that doesn't mean the guy at the bank slamming cobol all day isn't hauling down extremely low 6 figs or at least extremely high 5 figs.
Another thing is you have to know people. Ex .mil, school, stuff like that. This outta the blue recruiter stuff you hear about on the coasts pretty much doesn't happen.
There tends to be underemployment. If you have a CCNA you might not get a CCNA-level job you might just pull and terminate cable for $15/hr (or $40/hr if you're a journeyman electrician doing cat-5 on the side or whatever it is now). Maybe "everyone" on the coasts with a CCNP magically gets a CCNP level job, not so much here. The bottom third of the CS dept grads end up on helpdesk replacing mice.

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"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Re:Nice places to visit also... by EricWright · 2012-11-06 06:58 · Score: 1

The winters are...more interesting. Not horrible, but lots of snow and cold.
Does not compute. Lots of snow and cold is my exact definition of a horrible winter.
Re:Nice places to visit also... by R3d+M3rcury · 2012-11-06 08:11 · Score: 1

Hear hear. As a southern California resident, I like my snow way up on the mountains, far away from me. It's really pretty when it's way over there.
Re:Nice places to visit also... by gr8_phk · 2012-11-06 10:53 · Score: 1

I like both Wisconsin and Michigan. In the W, winters are significantly colder. In M you are correct that the west side of the state gets lots of lake effect snow, but in the greater Detroit area well I typically shovel my driveway twice a year. OTOH I believe W gets more sunshine than M (lake effect clouds?). Detroit proper is crappy, but the burbs are fine (similar to those around Milwaukee) and also where most of the jobs are - jobs which the W doesn't have. M leads the nation in second homes - often on a lake within a couple hour drive. I'd take either state over most places in America.
Re:Nice places to visit also... by modmans2ndcoming · 2012-11-08 03:07 · Score: 1

I live in Michigan and you sir are a Liar!
Summers are Horrible most years, Winters are dry and COOOOLLLLDDD.
No idea what your idea of a tended state and county park is but that is non-existent.
The best features of Michigan is that we are right in the middle of most of the worlds fresh water (that will mean something in 25 years), and we are not prone to natural disasters like Hurricanes, Tornadoes (they happen but not often), Wild Fires, Earth Quakes, Mud Slides, Snow Storms and floods.

Need Self-driving cars by neokushan · 2012-11-06 02:04 · Score: 2

As someone with a bad enough sight problem that I'll never ever be allowed to drive, I yearn for the Self-driving car. For the love of almighty fuck, I just want to be able to get to work without having to deal with buses and trains. And yeah, fuck you, other commuters, fuck you all.

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+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill

Re:Need Self-driving cars by ledow · 2012-11-06 02:31 · Score: 1

If you don't earn enough to take a taxi everywhere, then you'll be unlikely to ever afford a self-drive car even when they are legalised across your entire country.
Seriously, it's nice to dream, but you'll probably be retired before you can afford a self-drive car if you're not already earning enough money to. And that's ignoring the problems of insurances, recalls, etc. that are almost bound to hit the self-drive industry at some point after they are "approved".
You're more likely to work from home before that happens. You're more likely to be retired before it happens.
You're more likely to afford your own taxi-journeys / personal chauffeur before you can afford one of those.
There is not, on planet Earth, a single company licensed to sell self-drive cars to the general public, or a licensing structure for them, or an insurance structure for them, or a liability structure for them (which, if established to go against the companies that make them, could destroy the market literally overnight).
We are actually technically closer to all owning our own all-in-one boat/car/plane vehicles than a self-drive car. Because you *can* buy one of those now, they *aren't* stupidly expensive, and you *can* get appropriate licensing / testing / insurance for them TODAY.
The problem with reading sci-fi is that you'll hardly ever get to experience the things you read about, and the ones you do will be quite boring and mundane and not what they could be ("Talk to anyone in the world over the airwaves!" - Yes, I can today, but that causes immense problems itself - spam calls, etc. - and costs a lot to do for no other reason than there's no international telecoms carrier, "Flying cars!" - we have them. But you still need FAA licensing, filing a flight plan, an runway to land on, etc.).
By most probabilities, it won't happen until you're too old to take advantage of it. Accept it, move on.
Re:Need Self-driving cars by neokushan · 2012-11-06 02:55 · Score: 1

There is not, on planet Earth, a single self-driving car that works in all conditions and is capable of navigating any road (Even without a map). However, just because it doesn't exist does not make it impossible. The same goes for the licensing/testing/insurance aspects - it may not exist today, but the same could be said about cars themselves when they first existed. Self-driving cars have the capacity to be safer, more efficient and faster than current cars are. Most accidents are caused by humans in some way - human error, humans being drunk, humans just plain being stupid. While I anticipate that some problems will arise with self-driving cars, that's no reason to write them off entirely. It may take some time, but eventually (and sooner than you think) they will become part of the mainstream. I genuinely expect them to make insurance premiums drop rather than increase.
There's no reason why they have to be so expensive, either. Seriously, why do you expect them to cost (what I presume you're hinting at) tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, more than an existing car? Especially given that most of the technology that will go into it already exists.

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+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
Re:Need Self-driving cars by gl4ss · 2012-11-06 03:20 · Score: 1

cost of taxis varies greatly from place to place.
plenty of people can afford nice cars who coudn't afford to take a cab everywhere because the cab costs 120 euros an hour.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Need Self-driving cars by FatAlb3rt · 2012-11-06 03:23 · Score: 1

You should probably write GM, Google, and any number of other companies working on this a sternly-worded letter of advice. They probably don't even realize that you have it all figured out already.

Meanwhile, learn to think outside the box, dream a little, and believe that things can, and do, actually change. We'll see this stuff by the end of the decade. Maybe not full-fledged self-driving cars, but more stuff will become automated: interstate driving, car following (we're already seeing this!), and then eventually point-to-point. Early adopters will fund the R&D and the price will quickly come down.
Re:Need Self-driving cars by hawguy · 2012-11-06 04:04 · Score: 1

If you don't earn enough to take a taxi everywhere, then you'll be unlikely to ever afford a self-drive car even when they are legalised across your entire country.
Seriously, it's nice to dream, but you'll probably be retired before you can afford a self-drive car if you're not already earning enough money to. And that's ignoring the problems of insurances, recalls, etc. that are almost bound to hit the self-drive industry at some point after they are "approved".
I can't (reasonably) afford to take a taxi everywhere today - I'd be spending about $1000/month in cab fare to get to work every day, and that ignores longer weekend trips. But I fully expect to be able to buy a self-driving car when they become common.
When self driving cars become common, they won't be significantly more expensive to build than non self-driving cars. By then, cars will already be "fly by wire", so with the addition to a camera pod on the roof, maybe some other sensors (laser rangefinders?) and a software upgrade, the car can be made self-driving. And when those sensors are made in the millions, they'll become more affordable.
The software will need to be paid for somehow, but it's better to sell 5 million cars with a $1000 price premium than sell 100,000 cars with a $20,000 price premium.

Cost of living by ewg · 2012-11-06 02:11 · Score: 1

WSJ recently reported average base salary for Google engineers as $128K. You can finance the same lifestyle in Ann Arbor with $79K.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=128336&city2=52603000&city1=50668000

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org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg

Re:Cost of living by DriveDog · 2012-11-06 02:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well, no, I can't finance the same lifestyle in Detroit at any price. It's not available in Michigan. For those who like what I consider bad weather, go for it, by all means. But aside from the bombed-out Detroit proper, the area is bitterly cold and grey in winter without a break. Living there year-round is not for everyone no matter how much they clean it up. Cities in cold climes grew 60-120 years ago because it was easier to generate heat than escape it, but now the warmer climes have A/C, so such places will never again see their former glory.
Some people like that climate. That's wonderful. They might love it there.
Re:Cost of living by raind · 2012-11-06 03:11 · Score: 1

People here appreciate the seasons. We also appreciate the abundance of water. Thanks to global warming Lake St. Clair didn't even freeze over last year and it's a shallow lake by Michigan standards.
As for IT in the area, I think it's who you know just like anywhere else.

--
Get up!
Re:Cost of living by Dmritard96 · 2012-11-06 03:39 · Score: 1

When I have been to the bar area it sure does seem nice compared the midwest. mountains, ocean... If you are at all into the outdoors the midwest pretty much sucks between november and april. Then when it warms up a bit there is well - lots of corn? Yes the cost of living is lower, but I might argue so is the quality.

*Also, the WSJ report was based on glass door right (too lazy to go look)? I find glassdoor doesn't do a good job of ensuring that people report their salary and title combination accurately. For a lot of companies there are generic software developers that could have been listed as software dev1, software dev2 and vice versa. Not saying the number is wrong, i don't know, I am just hesitant to take it them too seriously. Also, the bonuses that googlers get paid seem to be quite high (again according to glassdoor) - most places won't do anything similar even adjusted for regional COL variation.

I am in chicago and it is fun for the midwest but if my fiance would let me I would probably go running to either coast...
Re:Cost of living by HornWumpus · 2012-11-06 03:53 · Score: 1

In the 80's 3M spent a lot of time and effort recruiting engineers out of California. 2% were still there at the end of the second winter.

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John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Cost of living by sjbe · 2012-11-06 09:26 · Score: 1

Well, no, I can't finance the same lifestyle in Detroit at any price. It's not available in Michigan.
I'm pretty much guessing you have never actually lived in Michigan making a statement like that.

the area is bitterly cold and grey in winter without a break.
Bitterly cold? Maybe if you are a big old wimp. Grey with out a break? Yeah, not so much. Sometimes it is grey, sometimes it isn't. Comes with having 20% of the world fresh water within 80 miles of you at any time. Plus we don't have to deal with earthquakes that will level the city.

Living there year-round is not for everyone no matter how much they clean it up.
Yeah, almost 10 million people live in Michigan because it is such a hell hole...
Re:Cost of living by DriveDog · 2012-11-06 12:07 · Score: 1

Relax. I'm saying it's not for me. Some like it hot. I like anything from 60F to 95F at 90% humidity, and up to 110F at
Then again, 50 years from now Great Lakes states might be downright balmy.
Re:Cost of living by DriveDog · 2012-11-06 12:09 · Score: 1

Slashdot dropped this for some reason... 110F at 30%. I've spent enough time in MI in winter, and it IS grey. And no, if the water isn't above 80F, the lifestyle I like cannot be bought in Detroit at any price.
Re:Cost of living by sergueyz · 2012-11-06 20:37 · Score: 1

It is still easier to generate energy to heat than to cool. The difference is about threefold, I believe.

Re:Huzzah! by captbob2002 · 2012-11-06 02:18 · Score: 1

Maybe you should actually see the Detroit metropolitan area before passing such judgement.

The Rest of the Story by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-06 02:18 · Score: 2, Informative

GM is just hiring all the HP (formerly EDS) contractors that already work for GM. It's not as if they creating thousands of new IT jobs.

Re:The Rest of the Story by HornWumpus · 2012-11-06 03:54 · Score: 1

Good thing someone is. EDS is a resume stain. Straight to the bin.

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John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:The Rest of the Story by SonnyDog09 · 2012-11-06 05:21 · Score: 1

The delicious irony is, of course, that GM bought EDS back in the 80s and then transferred all of their IT staff to EDS. What goes around, comes around.

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Your "fair share" is NOT in my wallet.

Re:Seriously... by Flavianoep · 2012-11-06 02:22 · Score: 2

I've just imagined this scene: [Driver:] Follow that Caddy. [Computer:] There are no golf courses nearby.

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Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.

Re:Huzzah! by nschubach · 2012-11-06 02:44 · Score: 1

With the magic of the Internet! ;)

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Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.

Then again... by HerculesMO · 2012-11-06 02:45 · Score: 1

It is Detroit. Highest rate of crime in the country.

But good luck with that. You destroy a local economy by outsourcing everything and then try to rebuild by insourcing, then you might have a hard time to get good engineers right off the bat.

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The price is always right if someone else is paying.

Re:Huge Challenge by Talderas · 2012-11-06 02:56 · Score: 2

Ignoring vehicle technology, the companies are way behind the tech curve when it comes to supporting their business. I work in an automotive related industry and based on my experience on how we've interfaced with the big three (GM, Chrysler, Ford), Chrysler is the best position. The fleet business for the big three is a significant portion of their business and I'm honestly surprised that they haven't taken more efforts to support this. Just to explain how the fleet business works (at its most basic level). A large company which has a fleet of vehicles will contact a leasing company to get their vehicles (a lot of fleet do not purchase their own vehicles). The leasing company, in turn, will then handle getting the truck into the company's hands. Often times these fleet vehicles must undergo some amount of upfitting before the end company will get them. This may be as simple as some decals. So the leasing company gets an upfitter to do that work. The trip of the vehicle in question then is often Manufacturing Plant to Upfitter to Manufacturing Plant to Rail Car to end destination depot onto a car hauler and to whatever staging area is used for the company to pick the vehicle up.

Chrysler has been, since about 2009, attempting to track where their vehicles are until they reach the final destination. That means when they're on a car carrier train car, at some upfitter doing work, on a car hauler, or if they've arrived at a dealership. They've also been smoothing out their shipping process by outsourcing some of their final shipment processes (like printing monroney window stickers) to upfitters who do work on their vehicles before they ship to dealerships. I've seen no similar efforts on GM or Ford's part so perhaps this is a sign that GM is going to try to get a better grasp on their chain.

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"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork

It's a trap! by Anon+E.+Muss · 2012-11-06 03:06 · Score: 3, Informative

Anybody thinking of getting an IT job at GM should talk to somebody who worked under Randy Mott at one of his previous gigs (e.g. Wal-Mart, Dell, HP). You won't find many fans.

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The key sequence to access my Slashdot bookmark in Firefox is Alt-B-S. I don't believe this is a coincidence.

Re:It's a trap! by Virtucon · 2012-11-06 04:14 · Score: 2

So start 'splainin Lucy! How is this a bad thing? Are you saying that it will turn Detroit into the new Bangalore? Having worked in Detroit this year and seeing the burned out houses, neighborhoods that have been mowed down it would seem to me that any kind of economic investment that brings jobs to the community is a good thing regardless of who's leading the charge.

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Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Re:It's a trap! by Anon+E.+Muss · 2012-11-06 06:16 · Score: 2

At the macro level, adding employment to Detroit would be a good thing. At the micro level, it could be a bad thing for individuals who take a job at GM, and then find themselves working in conditions that make Dilbert look good by comparison. I understand "any port in a storm, and any job in a recession." But if you have a choice, would you really want to go to work for somebody who is absolutely hated by many of his prior employees?

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The key sequence to access my Slashdot bookmark in Firefox is Alt-B-S. I don't believe this is a coincidence.
Re:It's a trap! by Virtucon · 2012-11-06 06:49 · Score: 1

Okay I can agree with you on that however there's been very few places that I've worked where the boss or his boss or somebody in the echelon is hated by his staff. It's a sad fact today that management doesn't appreciate the contributions of their employees but in reality. If you go back 100 years would you find it better or worse with the likes of Carnegie or Rockefeller? IMO, it would be much worse and despite the modern labor movement and workers rights along with laws enforcing guarantees of protection, such as the Employee Medical Leave Act, companies will still be dicks to their workers. You'd be surprised at some of the worst places I've seen for this, including non-profit organizations who have mission to serve people; most treat their workers like doormats. Trust me on this, I've been a consultant in a couple of these organizations and you'd really be surprised.
Even Steve Jobs was loathed by a lot of people who worked for him even though people put him on a pedestal as a true technological leader, yeah my ass. But such is the way of things with business leaders, most of them were pricks who on any given day would be beaten mercilessly by their employees if given a chance. About the only business leader I can think of who doesn't fit that mold would be Herb Kelleher who was a very competitive, sometimes ruthless, businessman yet if you asked any of his employees you'd find that close to 100% of them loved working for or with him.
I think for Detroit and Michigan in general, this is good news. Detroit hasn't really recovered since the riots of the 60s and it's time that it at least gets back to being a destination that people want to go to or work in rather than flee from it.

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Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"

Re:Seriously... by RaceProUK · 2012-11-06 03:31 · Score: 4, Funny

A caddy is a car carrying golf clubs.

FTFY

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No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun

Re:Huzzah! by raind · 2012-11-06 03:37 · Score: 1

Last week went fishing for perch on warm fall day, it was great, this is 20 minutes away and ate them the next day. You can do this year around.
http://www.lakestclair.net/index.php?/forum/5-fishing-reports/
In the summer you can go to :
http://www.detroitjazzfest.com/ or
https://www.google.com/search?q=bell+isle+images&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=TpR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1&q=belle+isle+images&sa=X&ei=VC6ZUJvHJOiy0QHtlIGgDA&ved=0CB4QvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=d1f3ab650e43904f&bpcl=37189454&biw=1138&bih=527

I seen deer at a park 20 minutes the other direction surrounded by suburbs.

So like watching tv news, googling will only get you a fraction of the story.

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Get up!

hooooorah no can they please pay back double... by bigwavedave33 · 2012-11-06 03:48 · Score: 1

This is total Michigan propaganda. the Big 3 have been dead for years. They know they are on a sinking ship. Before they hire all these on shore IT folks could they please pay double back the bailout monies from profits made by overseas branches only.

Re:hooooorah no can they please pay back double... by HornWumpus · 2012-11-06 04:24 · Score: 1

Can you imagine a company that outsourced to EDS and the outsourcer didn't get canned? (then hired by EDS at a greatly increased salary; Oracle style)
In any case IT for GM has lots and lots of room for improvement. If you can't get a reputation as a miracle worker following EDS you are an air thief.

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John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:hooooorah no can they please pay back double... by brad3378 · 2012-11-06 23:09 · Score: 1

For $150k you could buy a nice mansion (or two) in Detroit.
For $150k in Los Angeles or San Francisco, you could probably buy a nice tent or cardboard box.

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Re:Great sports??? by Dmritard96 · 2012-11-06 03:59 · Score: 1

In the world series...

Re:No fear here... by HornWumpus · 2012-11-06 04:13 · Score: 1

Thanks for the link.

I'm getting http://www.jacksonperformanceproducts.com/K5LAkitpage.htm for a friends Geo Metro. She loves that car and refuses to sell it.

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John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'

Not just Detroit by XXeR · 2012-11-06 04:15 · Score: 1

GM is bringing a lot of tech jobs back to the US, but not just in Detroit:

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2012/09/07/general-motors-to-open-500-worker.html

(more likely "Dixie") by Thud457 · 2012-11-06 04:17 · Score: 1

Nathan P3L Airchime

Please please PLEASE tell me that play "la Cucaracha"!

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the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Re:Yeah but.... by raind · 2012-11-06 04:17 · Score: 1

You never been to Grosse Pointe or Bloomfield Hills.

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Get up!

Good for Detriot and the Midwest by Anonymous Coward · 2012-11-06 05:07 · Score: 1

I grew up in Buffalo in the early 1980s. It was a real shame watching people who had safe, stable factory work all lose their jobs. In the late 70s, offshoring killed a lot of light and medium manufacturing jobs which was a huge hit. During the early 80s recession, Bethlehem Steel and a few other huge employers went bankrupt and pushed the local unemployment rate into the double digits for years. Drive along the lakefront south of the city, and you'll still see a huge steel plant that stretches for _miles_. Thousands and thousands of people worked there and pumped money into the local economy. It's typical of any Rust Belt city -- manufacturing gets gutted, middle class people go below the poverty line, and you see the same problems Detroit has now.

The city is coming back to some extent, but unfortunately the focus is now on "knowledge work." Most of the growth is outside the city and involves typical low-level call center, IT and other jobs that are there just because the cost of living is so low. So just like Detroit, Buffalo has the same problems -- reasonably well off suburbs surrounded by a bombed out shell of a city that never improves. Buffalo's compact enough that they're not considering leveling whole blocks like they're doing in Detroit, but some neighborhoods sure need that treatment nonetheless.

I think what really needs to happen for a true US comeback is the recognition that not everyone can be a knowledge worker. You need a bunch of mindless, clock punching factory jobs for the people who can't deal with education. Those people spend money too -- they buy houses, buy cars and support local merchants.

I'm happy GM is doing this, regardless of motivation. I live in the NYC area now, but still enjoy the winter weather in upstate NY, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. (Yes, I'm strange, but I can't stand heat and humidity.) Many companies I've worked for over the years have been lured by tax breaks and grants to pick up and move to Texas, Florida, Georgia, etc. Every time, I've quit and found another job in a place with seasons and normal people. I just hope those don't run out until I retire. :-)

not just for "aging" "boomers" by cellocgw · 2012-11-06 05:11 · Score: 1

I know of many sub-50-yr-olds who hate driving and would welcome the chance to buy a self-driving car. Aside from the absolute fact that these cars will be statistically far safer than most or all human-driven cars (there have been a dozen flamefests on that topic in previous /. threads), being able to read the paper, text your BFF, or just plain nap on the way to work sounds great to me.

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https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw

Re:Seriously... by cayenne8 · 2012-11-06 05:32 · Score: 1

A caddy is a guy carrying golf clubs. How about giving us non-americans a break?

Well, you are on a well known, US centric website....

Take it as an opportunity to learn some US slang...?

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........

KITT V KARR by RobertLTux · 2012-11-06 05:52 · Score: 1

even if it was perfect you still have the problem of the AI deciding to Kill You or Somebody Else or...

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Detroit or Detroit Metro? by sjbe · 2012-11-06 09:01 · Score: 1

I'm fond of Detroit, but it's worth mentioning that it could be a set from Blade Runner.

The City of Detroit has a population of around 700,000 people. The Greater Detroit Metro area has about 4 million people in it. Most people who say they are "from Detroit" aren't actually from Detroit proper and the suburbs are actually pretty nice for the most part. Oakland County which is the county immediately to the north of the City of Detroit is located has a AAA credit rating and is among the wealthiest counties in the country. Furthermore Michigan is an absolutely beautiful state with lots to recommend it. The vast majority of work that is available in Detroit is no where near the run down areas that get most of the attention in the press.

Reports of the death of Detroit are greatly exaggerated.

Some actual facts by sjbe · 2012-11-06 09:17 · Score: 2

Basically, its Wisconsin, but with a couple more feet of lake effect snow, and the eyesore / mindsore of Detroit.

Detroit proper has a population of just 700,000 people. Most people who say they are "from Detroit" don't actually live in the city itself. The Metro Detroit area is much larger (population 4 million) and actually is a nice place to live. Oakland County just to the north of Detroit has a AAA credit rating and is among the 10 wealthiest counties in the US. There is a huge amount of engineering talent in the state and the businesses that need it. (Hint, the auto industry uses a LOT of technology)

I believe Wisconsin has something like 10 lakes for every 1 lake in Michigan.

Wisconsin has about 15,000 while Michigan has over 11,000. The numbers are very similar. Please cease making up nonsense when two seconds on Google will prove you are making stuff up.

Pick your poison by sjbe · 2012-11-06 09:20 · Score: 1

As a southern California resident, I like my snow way up on the mountains, far away from me. It's really pretty when it's way over there.

Wimp. Personally I prefer a bit of snow over living on a major fault line.

Re:Great sports??? by gr8_phk · 2012-11-06 10:58 · Score: 1

The Giants almost got swept in the previous series (3-0). Then it seemed like they started taking ADHD meds so they could focus!

No it's not Detroit by gr8_phk · 2012-11-06 11:14 · Score: 1

Most GM engineering is done at the Warren Tech Center or the GM Proving Grounds. WTC is outside the city of Detroit and an easy commute from many many fine areas. PG is out in the country and an easy drive from rural areas with actual farmland and also some of the finest cities in the area - Oakland county MI is among the richest (per capita) in the nation.

Already happens by TheSkepticalOptimist · 2012-11-09 08:14 · Score: 1

A lot of Cadillacs end up driving themselves, usually to disastrous results, considering the average age of a Cadillac driver is like 112.

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