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The Data Crunchers Who Helped Win The Election

concealment sends in a story at Time that goes behind the scenes with the team of data crunchers that powered many of the Obama campaign's decisions in the lead-up to the election. From the article: "For all the praise Obama's team won in 2008 for its high-tech wizardry, its success masked a huge weakness: too many databases. Back then, volunteers making phone calls through the Obama website were working off lists that differed from the lists used by callers in the campaign office. Get-out-the-vote lists were never reconciled with fundraising lists. It was like the FBI and the CIA before 9/11: the two camps never shared data. ... So over the first 18 months, the campaign started over, creating a single massive system that could merge the information collected from pollsters, fundraisers, field workers and consumer databases as well as social-media and mobile contacts with the main Democratic voter files in the swing states. The new megafile didn't just tell the campaign how to find voters and get their attention; it also allowed the number crunchers to run tests predicting which types of people would be persuaded by certain kinds of appeals. Call lists in field offices, for instance, didn't just list names and numbers; they also ranked names in order of their persuadability, with the campaign's most important priorities first. About 75% of the determining factors were basics like age, sex, race, neighborhood and voting record. Consumer data about voters helped round out the picture. 'We could [predict] people who were going to give online. We could model people who were going to give through mail. We could model volunteers,' said one of the senior advisers about the predictive profiles built by the data. 'In the end, modeling became something way bigger for us in '12 than in '08 because it made our time more efficient.'"

208 comments

  1. Ummm... by Nexion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    creepy.

    1. Re:Ummm... by Jstlook · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Again, I'm going to reiterate my point. I don't care if they spend a billion dollars on a campaign (I prefer my privacy, thanks) on one condition:
      Use your datamining to actually get government right. Figure out what everybody wants, and find a solution. If you're going to "run 66,000 campaign predictions a night", how many can you run that analyze the effects of your policies, actions, and decisions.
      Cause honestly, it looks to me like government has gotten really good at screwing things up. I'd hate to lose my faith in humanity before I'm dead.

      --
      ---jstlook ---For that is the way of Elves, for they say both yes AND no, and mean every word of it. --- J.R.R.T.
    2. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did they factor in the "I'm on the do not call list" solicitation phone calls from anyone piss me off quotient. Fortunately I've been away from home for quite awhile on a job with only a cell phone which are illegal to call but any campaign that called me for ANY reason would be much more likely NOT to have me vote for them. Funny thing is most political ads drive me to the other candidate because the candidate running the ad is lying. Go figure!

    3. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The unintended consequence is that they'll just figure out how much they can continue to slowly fuck everyone over without causing a massive revolt against the system. Perhaps they're already doing exactly that.

    4. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Figure out what everybody wants, and find a solution.

      What if they already have a solution and simply figure out how to make everybody want it? The end result is the same, right?

    5. Re:Ummm... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 0

      Well, Obama certainly hasn't gotten "what the people want" very right.

      But then, he's never sorted out that mess about his birth certificate, either. I know that lots of amateurs claimed "fake"... but lots of well-respected professionals have claimed "fake" since then, and no answers have been forthcoming. And probably never will.

    6. Re:Ummm... by hairyfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, Obama certainly hasn't gotten "what the people want" very right.

      Well, depends on which people you are talking about. For most of the other 6.7 billion people who don't live in the US, he got it right. As a member of the free world in which the POTUS claims leadership of, I want a leader who at least sounds like he finished high school. For some reason the Republicans don't seem to have too many of those.

    7. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, Is it really democracy when the leader knows exactly what to say to get your vote.

    8. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Word.

      "About 75% of the determining factors were basics like age, sex, race, neighborhood and voting record. Consumer data about voters helped round out the picture."

      I'm not going to RTFA, but I do hope the voting record portion was given voluntarily by the individuals themselves and not purchased from some "aggregation service".

    9. Re:Ummm... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Consider this. They're data mining to find what to say to get you to vote for them. Most likely, they're data mining out what is causing voters the most angst and fear and basically reinforcing it.

      Politics these days is all about figuring out what you're afraid of and appealing to it because fear is one of the most powerful motivators.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    10. Re:Ummm... by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      How you voted is secret. That you voted is public record, same as the fact that that you're registered to vote. I wonder if they were correlating "vote vs. abstained" with results of past elections.

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    11. Re:Ummm... by Urban+Garlic · · Score: 1

      They may well have done so. I didn't get any phone campaign phone calls this cycle, and am on the do-not-call list.

      I wasn't idle, either, I donated to one of the presidential campaigns via the website. This triggered some e-mail traffic, mostly requests for further donations, but also requests for me to volunteer to make phone calls or knock on doors in a nearby swing state. Oh, and some snail-mail, they sent me a bumper-sticker.

      But no phone calls.

      --
      2*3*3*3*3*11*251
    12. Re:Ummm... by davydagger · · Score: 1

      "For most of the other 6.7 billion people who don't live in the US, he got it right."

      you'd probably want to ask them about that first next time....

      the same people being hit by drone strikes in pakistan?

    13. Re:Ummm... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Well, Obama certainly hasn't gotten "what the people want" very right.

      Funny, they held this election thingy and a mqjority of the people who voted seemed to think he got it righter than the other guy.

      But then, he's never sorted out that mess about his birth certificate

      But then again you are insane, so who the fuck knows what you want.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    14. Re:Ummm... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Republicans are not the only other ones out there.

      Hell, Romney wasn't even legally eligible. Those fundraisers he held overseas disqualified him.

    15. Re:Ummm... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Genuine, well-renowned graphics experts have examined Obama's supposed birth certificate, and it's definitely a fake. It's not even a very good fake.

    16. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was 15 excruciating minutes of Lord Monckton's rambling, pandering nonsense which only anecdotally cites "expert" Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Perhaps you linked the wrong movie, or would like to cite an actual source to support your accusation?

    17. Re:Ummm... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Monckton?

      WTF?

      He's maybe an expert on SUDOKU, but document analysis?

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    18. Re:Ummm... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I didn't say Monckton did any analysis. He's just presenting what other people found.

    19. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... without even naming those other people, aside from "expert" Joe Arpaio.

    20. Re:Ummm... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "... without even naming those other people, aside from "expert" Joe Arpaio."

      Joe Arpaio also did not do the analysis. He arranged a team of investigators, who then consulted experts.

      The information is mostly public domain, if you just look for it. For example, completely aside from the graphics evidence, there is this, the fact that the numbers on the birth records are out of sequence. And the fact that Hawaiian official will not allow others who were born near the same time access to their own records, even though it is required by law.

      It goes on. It's just just a few flakes who think they know a little about Photoshop. There is actually quite a bit of very strong evidence of fakery.

      Having said that: I know of no proof that Obama himself was necessarily behind any of it.

    21. Re:Ummm... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Correction: "It's NOT just a few flakes." Typographical error. But have fun with it if you want.

    22. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know of no proof that Obama himself was necessarily behind any of it.

      Well yeah, he was a baby at the time. All other American birth certificates are available (in long form certified exact copies, not modern computer-generated form) to any identity thief who asks for them, and the numbers on all other American birth certificates are perfectly in sequence with every other certificate. Because people never make mistakes. Thus, a cabal of government officials and doctors faked Obama's birth certificate in a conspiracy to make a Kenyan man president decades later.

    23. Re:Ummm... by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      For most of the other 6.7 billion people who don't live in the US, he got it right.

      You misspelled "Confederacy".

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    24. Re:Ummm... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      there is this, the fact that the numbers on the birth records are out of sequence

      Hahahha

      When Arpaio dispatched Zullo for the second trip, the assignment was kept confidential for Zullo’s safety

      Teehee

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    25. Re:Ummm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Arpaio's noble Cold Case Posse reminds me of another epic tale. Frodo's trip to a volcano was also a confidential assignment to help overthrow a dark tyrant.

  2. All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Plus he seemed to have lost a huge amount of the support he had in 2008.

    Don't get me wrong: a win is a win... but looking at it objectively a sigh of relief is more appropriate than a cry of victory.

    1. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A cry of agony is more like it.

    2. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It simply makes me sigh and wonder again when The American People[tm] will come to its senses and get themselves a voting system that's less paralysable by a mere two parties and effectively disenfranchises just a hair short of half the voters.

      But since the message of the founding fathers has been lost in the process of elevating them to sainthood (or rather, by commercialising their vague memory), the answer is probably "never".

      Which makes the claims of this country being a democracy (or a republic, or both), all the more bitter.

    3. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Mitreya · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Plus he seemed to have lost a huge amount of the support he had in 2008.

      Maybe that's because he had done a 180 degree turn on most of his promises? The ones that got that huge amount of support in 2008? Campaigning on "change and hope" was no longer possible, since we now have 4 years of actual record.

      a win is a win... but looking at it objectively a sigh of relief is more appropriate than a cry of victory.

      Republicans had a chance, but they needed a stronger candidate. Why is it so hard to find one strong candidate? I mean, look at who Romney was competing against at the end -- Gingrich, McCain, Santorum...

    4. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh, part of me thinks there was some voter tampering that caused it to be so close. Just not enough to make Romney the winner & make us go through the recount & audit process. Obama seemed like he was going to win by a healthy margin IMO.

    5. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by jhoegl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off, Obama did what he could with a Republican party that wanted nothing more than for him to lose his second term. Dont believe me? They even said this.
      Secondly, the Republican party is full of nut jobs and puppets. The last few candidates that the Republicans presented were such big shills (including Bush), that you could clearly see the strings that were being pulled to make them talk.
      Third, stop lying to make the Republican party look good. We have something now called the internet, and despite the large amount of false data out there, the real data (and recordings) remain.
      Finally, Stop taking the USA citizens for rubes. We are smart, educated, and intelligent, something the Republican Party has feared for years. We believe that even though people can and given the chance, will pull up their bootstraps, sometimes they need help to get started. Not everyone has an extended family, a rich uncle, or someone who knows the right people to get us started. Society is not socialism, it is caring about your neighbors and helping out. THis includes neighbors I dont know and will never meet. I sanction my government to help those that need help, and try its best to find those that would work this to their own personal benefit.

      Adapt or die, as some of your party members might say.

    6. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by desdinova+216 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      part of the problem is that the Republican party is being held hostage by a small fringe who want to put in place a theocracy.

    7. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off, Obama did what he could with a Republican party that wanted nothing more than for him to lose his second term.

      Well, duh. Winning the election is kind of their job, dude.

    8. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only squeaked by? Are you serious?

      Surely you weren't persuaded by the media hype about how close the race is. It has never been close. Obama has had a huge advantage in the electoral college from the get-go. And the Romney campaign never had the ground organization in the battleground states that would be required to be a serious contender.

      In fact, it almost looks like the Republicans threw the race on purpose. Romney is not the kind of candidate who would have a great chance of beating Obama in this climate--he epitomizes everything that people dislike about the Republican party, and plays into the Democrat characterization of the GOP as the party for the rich, by the rich.

      In fact, there hasn't really been a strong candidate put up against an incumbent President since Reagan beat Carter. Clinton was not expected to win--but Perot's entering the race spoiled expectations.

    9. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, we Americans should get a much more logical political system, like the British. Maybe if we had a House of Lords and a royal family, we'd finally enter the 18th century.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    10. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's why you have to start campaigning the day after the election. You have to be willing to through the American economy and all it's people into the toilet if that's what it takes to get an extra 5% of voters next election.

    11. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because there are few rational members of that party left. The Republican party caters to the extreme right, just watch the primaries, it was a contest of who is the craziest. The Republican party is dead and it time for a third party to emerge.

    12. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by White+Flame · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, that sort of shift requires constitutional changes, which is a Really Big Deal in process, support, and cost. Plus, the 2 principal parties have no incentive to do that.

      If I recall correctly, some of the founding fathers were later arguing for a more proportional system, seeing a 2-party convergence even in their time.

    13. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by mpeskett · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Important distinction - "A party that wanted for him to lose" vs "A party that wanted nothing more than for him to lose".

      When "make sure the other guy loses" is the over-riding objective, above any other goal, you stop doing things that would make sense if you wanted to get anything done, because getting things done might make the other guy look good. You stop doing things that would make sense to advance your own (original) agenda, where it overlaps with the other guy, because agreeing with the other guy makes him look good and might allow him to achieve something.

      It turns everything into a game of tribal warfare - no compromise, no co-operation, just blind hate and contrarian obstruction. Being anything so long as it puts the other guy down or makes his life difficult. That's pretty much the impression I get of a good chunk of the republican party for the last 4 years, and thankfully it hasn't proved to be a winning strategy. If all you had to do to win an election was to block everything the incumbent tries to do (then lambast him for never doing anything), then the USA would be stuck fruitlessly spinning its gears forever.

      Maybe now that's been shown to be a dud they'll start working for the common good of the people being governed, rather than treating ideas (and laws) as soldiers in an imaginary war. Maybe. That is perhaps optimistic though; equally likely they double down on the obstructionist crap, especially given how much the far right has supplanted the centre right.

    14. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      Why is it so hard to find one strong candidate?

      I've heard that most of the would-be better candidates did not want to run against an incumbent, but instead wait for 2016.

    15. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Carnivore · · Score: 1

      It actually disenfranchises _more_ than half of the voters. Take California in this election:
      Obama: 5573450 Romney: 3635571
      None of the 3.63 million votes for Romney counted, and 1937878 of Obama's didn't contribute to the election.
      Therefore, 5573449 votes, 60.5%, in California didn't count for anything.

    16. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Hawke · · Score: 2

      No, helping the country be better, and the citizen be better off is.
      Aka: Leading the country.
      Getting elected is a MEANS, it is not the end.

    17. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disenfranchises? In what way? How would having more than 2 parties change the fact that only a single person can win the presidential office?

    18. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1, Interesting

      First off, Obama did what he could with a Republican party that wanted nothing more than for him to lose his second term. Dont believe me? They even said this. Secondly, the Republican party is full of nut jobs and puppets. The last few candidates that the Republicans presented were such big shills (including Bush), that you could clearly see the strings that were being pulled to make them talk

      That's why they used fishing line when they built Obama.

      FYI, I'm one of those people who voted for the O in 2008 but not this year, and my decision had fuck-all to do with what Republicans do or say.

      I chose to vote against Obama because of NDAA, "Disposition Matrix's," Gitmo's continued existence, P.A.T.R.I.O.T II, CISPA (so much for that veto promise), expanded drone strikes, etc., etc., etc.

      Put simply, I voted against Obama because the last thing I wanted was another 4 years of Bush.

      Que sera, sera.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    19. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Draknor · · Score: 1

      Not really -- we can keep our constitutional system of representation, and just change how we run elections on a state-by-state basis, such as by adopting instant run-off voting or proportional representation of electors (such as Nebraska & Maine do).

      You are correct that there is no incentive to do such a thing by the 2 parties currently in power, however.

    20. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, we Americans should get a much more logical political system, like the British. Maybe if we had a House of Lords and a royal family, we'd finally enter the 18th century.

      The Queen has a very limited constitutional role that very seldom comes into play. If she did anything outrageous it'd be the end of the monarchy's popularity and the end of the monarchy (the Prime Minister can demand an abdication), so she has to follow the public mood.

      The House of Lords can only delay legislation and send it back to the Commons, and its track record of providing corrective feedback and constructive improvements to bills is actually pretty good.

      House of Commons Select Committees scrutinize every bit of legislation line-by-line before it can proceed. Is there a similar system in the US Capitol or is it true that most of the people voting on bills in the house don't actually read them?

      Members of the British cabinet have to be elected to Parliament, not simply appointed. Nobody gets to be Prime Minister without years of fighting his (or her) way to the front benches, so whoever makes it to the front has a pretty good idea of how the system works by the time they get there.

      Since the executive branch is taken from the legislative branch, a government with a decent sized mandate can actually get stuff done. And then of course there's Prime Minister's questions every Wednesday, where the PM gets a good solid grilling. Could you have imagined Dubya surviving for five minutes in a pit like that?

      Since the head of state (the monarch) is a different person from the executive leader of the country (the Prime Minister) then people can honour the head of state and be as patriotic as they like while treating their political leaders with utter contempt and ousting them when they put a foot wrong. None of this "don't dare criticise the President in a time of war" nonsense. And if the government really does screw up badly enough then a vote of confidence in the Commons can force an election at any time, no staring at the clock waiting for a 4-year term to finish. And if you do happen to get a decent PM then he (or she) gets to stay in office for as long as the people are content for that government to remain, not be ousted at the end of an arbitrary term limit.

      The parliamentary system isn't perfect (what system is?) but it sure as shit has a lot going for it. And since the UK had a female PM before a lot of people on /. were born, maybe you should hold your fire on gloating about how progressive the US system is until Hillary gets back into the White House, this time as President.

      Carry on.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    21. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only squeaked by? Are you serious?

      Surely you weren't persuaded by the media hype about how close the race is.

      I assume that OP was referring to the fact that given how bad the Republican candidate was (due to the strong pull from the nutjob right-wing fringe) that it was closer than it should have been

      It's not that it was close in electoral votes, it's that Obama only got 2% popular vote advantage and that's not "decisive" victory that it could have been...

    22. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But this shouldn't be a surprise! With an institutionalized two-party system, both parties are optimizing to get the biggest share possible, crafting policies to maximize their share of the electorate. Given that both have similar resources to do it, a 50-50 split is almost inevitable, particularly if semi-automated policy manufacturing like this is pursued further. Throw in the error that Republicans continue to pursue largely rural/suburban issues in an increasingly urban country and the outcomes will tend to favour the democrats. The question is: how long before the GOP policy shifts towards urban issues to maximize their share of the vote? If both parties adopt semi-automated optimization like the one crafted by the democrats, the country will be even more strictly divided, but along who-knows-what policy lines.

    23. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 2

      Republicans had a chance, but they needed a stronger candidate. Why is it so hard to find one strong candidate? I mean, look at who Romney was competing against at the end -- Gingrich, McCain, Santorum...

      Republican candidate issues can (mostly) be placed at the feet of the Republican party. The only person who could possibly fit through their obstacle course was Romney, only because he was the best in changing positions (a/k/a outright lying about what he really was).

      Case in point: Christie post-Sandy. The fact he actually praised Obama for helping his state, and Christie doing the job he's supposed to (helping his electorate) gets him skewered in the press. Any remotely moderate candidate for office gets a hard-core conservative Republican challenger in the primaries. The fact that Republicans have to deal with: the current system for vetting candidates makes them appeal to a hard core conservative wing that hurts them in any nationwide election. You may be able to get Texas to be vote for God and guns, but you're running in 50 states.

      The fault is not in (y)our stars, but in (y)ourselves.

    24. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by LanMan04 · · Score: 2

      Really? He won all the same states he did in 2008 except for NC and IN.

      This is certainly as good, or better, a "mandate" than Bush received in 2004.

      "I've earned political capital, and I intend to spend it"
      --W, 2004

      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    25. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      we'd finally enter the 18th century

      Wonderfull, then you could catch up with more recent events in the UK.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    26. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      I thought representing their constituent's interests was their job, even if they spend 0% of their time on it.

    27. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      Clinton was not expected to win--but Perot's entering the race spoiled expectations.

      Maybe it was different in the swing states, but in Texas, everyone voting for Perot I talked to would have otherwise have voted for Clinton. On the Republican scale, Perot is a left-wing nutjob. He wanted fiscal responsibility, something Clinton actually gave us (even if the Republicans assert it was only luck that he sat on a boom that busted under Bush). He also wasn't nearly interested enough in the bedroom habits of people to be a "good Republican."

    28. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Bush lost the popular vote and still called it a "mandate".

    29. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by jd.schmidt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sadly, the short term problem is that obstructionism will at least appear to work in the next 2 years. 2 years from now, the voters who were willing to wait 4 - 6 hours in line to vote for Obama won't be willing to stick it out for a midterm. And one guess on the social groups that had to wait 4 hours to vote. The Democrats will lose many of their gains in the last election and the hardline (Tea Party) Republicans will conclude that their no surrender tactics are working and further that the reason they lost 2012 is because the party selected a wishy-washy conservative in Romney.

      I am sad to say my prediction is very minimal compromise in the short term and further purges of moderates, especially moderate Republicans, for the next 4 years. Eventually the Republicans will have to change course, they just can’t/won’t that soon.

      Buckle up, we are in for a bumpy ride.

    30. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's pretty twisted logic you have going there (or possibly an unorthodox definition of "disenfranchised"), taken to it's logical conclusion the only vote that counts is the single ballot that gets someone over the line. Truth is all the votes counted, the Rommney total was simply insufficient and the Obama total was more than required. US domestic politics has ( in my lifetime) always been highly polarised, which is kind of odd given the diverse sub-cultures found in the different states/regions, simply tweeking the election rules isn't going to change that cultural paradox.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    31. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If she did anything outrageous it'd be the end of the monarchy's popularity and the end of the monarchy (the Prime Minister can demand an abdication), so she has to follow the public mood.

      I accept that having the queen and her family beholden to the public is preferable to the public behold to the queen. That said, why does either have to be in this situation? Eliminate the monarchy and free the queen! I don't doubt the "perks" are worthwhile but fame and fortune has its toll and their young will suffer. Give her what lands, jewels, and riches ought be spared and let them be like any other rich, douchebag family to suffer and prosper by their actions not their titles.

      Carry on.

      Fuck off.

    32. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Stop taking the USA citizens for rubes. We are smart, educated, and intelligent, something the Republican Party has feared for years.

      Well said, I agree with Christopher Hicthens who thought putting Palin up for VP was a genuine insult to intelligence of "the people". Isn't the conservative side of politics supposed to shun shallow air-heads? Are they not supposed to hang on to established institutions rather than openly call for their abolishment? Was Nixon a commie because he didn't veto the clean air act? Was reagan a wetermellon becuse he pushed for and obtained an international cap and trade treaty for sulphur emissions which has been credited with significantly reducing the threat from acid rain?

      Having grown up in the 60-70's the Tea Party's sucessful hijacking of the conservative brand name has left me speechless, how border line support for anarchy and a total disregard for well-established facts could be interpreted as 'conservative' is beyond me? Go back pre-911 and have a look at the senior republicans, where are the moderate right wingers in today's line up? - Oh wait....I think I get it now.....you guys just elected a moderate conservative as president, well done! ;)

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    33. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by SpottedKuh · · Score: 1

      Because the monarch plays a limited but important role in government. It is her job to appoint a Prime Minister (not always trivial in a hung parliament); and, it's her decision whether to call an election, or to appoint a new PM from the current Commons should the government fall on a confidence motion.

      You could eliminate the monarch...but then you'd just need to replace her with someone else who would do those jobs (call that person a president, chancellor, or whatever else you like). And what have you gained? (Aside from having to reprint all your currency, reissue passports to all your citizens, rewrite parts of your constitution, etc.).

    34. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Joe+Decker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "small fringe" is sadly not, to my mind, a plausible interpretation of the evidence

      When you look at many votes on questions touched on by the theocrats, it's pretty clear that they enjoy substantial support from large segments and often majorities of the GOP electorate.

      I'm very sorry that the somewhat more sensible Republican party of the past is no longer with us. But that's the case, and it's time for people who supported a more sensible GOP to either figure out a way of more effectively persuading people to your view (because the theocrats are winning that war, despite last night's results), or, alternatively, get themselves a more sensible party of their own.

    35. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't win. The Republicans lost. This was a reverse Kerry. Obama really didn't do that great a job and the economy is still shite which would normally mean BO should have been toast (even though many still blame Bush for tanking the economy in the first place). The only reason he was reelected were all the people the Republicans pissed off with their tea bagger right wing agenda. Latinos didn't like them, Blacks didn't like them. The left and democrat whites of course don't like them. More women don't like them than like them. So what's a party to do when their policies that favour white upper income religious zealot xenophobes fails. Maybe stop listening to your extreme tea baggers and move back towards the center and cooperate more? Hmmmm? Just say no to Rush and Beck and Fox and you'll get elected for sure next time.

    36. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by thesandtiger · · Score: 2

      Because they think they need to be more conservative, more hard-line in order to appeal to the religious nuts and hard-core racist wingnuts. Seriously.

      If there were a party that was fiscally conservative but didn't hate minorities and spout off bugfuck insane Ayn Rand nonsense they would probably do well.

      A republican candidate who didn't repudiate science, go all Jesusy at the drop of a hat, and who was willing to say that fixating on restricting the rights of a tiny (but potent) minority was a waste of fucking time, and who was willing to actually call out wingnuts who acted like assholes would do well.

      In fact, he has - Take the D for after his name and look just at his policies and Obama is pretty much an Eisenhower republican with more modersocial sensibilities.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    37. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      She's the emergency off button for parliament if it goes out of control. And if parliament ever got to a point like that, the majority of the population would likely be OK with it (there'd be a flap but she'd survive). If she dissolved parliament for no reason, then she would be out on her arse. But that won't happen. Having her around is a good thing. Since she's not elected she's not motivated by politics, and since she wants to keep her job, she will only stick her nose in if it's really needed.

    38. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by denobug · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am sad to say my prediction is very minimal compromise in the short term and further purges of moderates, especially moderate Republicans, for the next 4 years. Eventually the Republicans will have to change course, they just can’t/won’t that soon.

      For the sake of our country I sincerely hope your prediction is not our future. As a moderate Republican I will have no choice but to keep voting for Democrates, straight down the ballot. I will keep on doing this until more Republican leaders emerges (and survives). I think many moderates (Republican or Democrats) in this country share my point of view.

    39. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      It simply makes me sigh and wonder again when The American People[tm] will come to its senses and get themselves a voting system that's less paralysable by a mere two parties and effectively disenfranchises just a hair short of half the voters.

      Your post is very insightful. Really.

      Please explain how "The American People" can alter the current voting system, that is held in a stranglehold by an elite set of politicians who only work to re-elect themselves, in a non-violent manner. Provide specific, actionable examples.

      The fact that people actually modded your snarky, hollow, and nameless post up says more about the public's ability to evaluate content than anything you just typed.

    40. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Arancaytar · · Score: 2

      The 1937878 are a mathematical artifact. Even if 1937878 votes were superfluous (they're not, because they prevented endless court battles if the outcome had been in doubt), they didn't get disenfranchised. The guy they voted for won.

      You're right on the rest, more or less, if you use the "deprived of power" definition rather than "right to vote" (which they clearly used).

      But there's no way around that, electoral college or not, because there is only one Oval Office. You can only put one guy into it, and anywhere from zero to 49.9% of the voters (assuming a popular majority) have to suck it up. That's the case in every democracy with an elected leader - but when you compare the electoral processes of those other countries, you find that nowhere else do the losing voters routinely get this angry and disillusioned about it.

      Why? Part of it is that you give the chief executive a hell of a lot of responsibility for one person. You've got him as head of state, head of government, head of the military, giving him the power to veto every law, appoint judges, etcetera.

      Even more of the power is symbolic, and deeply ingrained in the public mind. Everyone knows that in theory the US president can't do much without the agreement of congress, but everyone also "knows" that the government and the nation is headed for disaster for four years whenever someone from the "enemy party" gets into the White House. That during those four years the only thing keeping the country from collapsing is a congress controlled by your own party blocking everything the president does, putting the government in a deadlock. (Vice versa, when your party takes the presidency, the most important thing is to take congress as well to prevent the "enemy party" from blocking everything.)

      But the US congress is much more important than a group that either backs up or holds down the president depending on party colors. It's the actual decision-making part of the government, presidential powers notwithstanding. So what reduces them, in the public mind, to the president's backup-dancers/leash-holders? Out of 535 seats, all but two belong to one of the two parties (yours or the great enemy's), and the rest are just nominally independent.

      The UK currently has over a dozen parties with seats (a coalition of over ten controlling one house with two in opposition, and vice versa); France has over six in both chambers; Germany has six in the Bundestag (three in government, three in opposition). These people have to compromise each and every day to get any work done. Promising to "reach across the aisle" in campaigns would be as likely as "coming in on time" or "showing up to work in a suit". They fight like hellcats, but every single person who voted for one of them knows that their voice is represented in government regardless of who is president or chancellor or prime minister or whatever. Even the ones with a single seat. You don't have people holding their nose and voting for Team Red because otherwise Team Blue might be in charge, because both will have to cooperate with Team Yellow and Team Green to get anywhere.

    41. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by eddy · · Score: 1

      Last I checked you can't actually cast a negative vote, so you have to either abstain or vote FOR something.

      A vote for Romney would hardly be a vote AGAINST Gitmo, etc.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    42. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain how "The American People" can alter the current voting system, that is held in a stranglehold by an elite set of politicians who only work to re-elect themselves, in a non-violent manner. Provide specific, actionable examples.

      Well, 300-odd million people getting up one day and deciding to peacefully obstruct the public space around the nearest buildings hosting those governing elites until they cave in and give up their nefarious ways would be one way to do it. Worked for a few people in recent history.

      Recall that the founding fathers did want this sort of sway to be held by "the better educated voter". That is something allegedly enshrined in The American Constition, As Amended, and now that The American People[tm] have let themselves be bamboozled out of it, well, it's up to them to get it back somehow. Peaceful or otherwise.

      The fact that people actually modded your snarky, hollow, and nameless post up says more about the public's ability to evaluate content than anything you just typed.

      And so you expect me to "fix" those other people too? Well, let me get my vet's certificate and toolbox, won't be a jiffy. But you're right, I don't have to start with you.

    43. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Royal Family is always under scrutiny if it does try to influence policies. At the moment the Prince of Wales is being put under a mganifying glass because of his lobbying for his numerous social causes. The Queen only comes into play when things have gone terribly wrong. What a King/Queen can and can't do has been determined under the Stuarts(one got his head lobbed off, the other had to flee from an orange).

      And that was quite some time ago. Just to boggle the mind for a bit Edward Longshanks had to call in a parliament to raise taxes for his wars. That's the guy you might know from that Braveheart movie that was so popular a couple of years ago. I repeat: Edward the First of England, one of the most autocratic monarchs the country ever saw, had to form a parliament to get things done. And he wasn't the first who had to do just that. "No taxation without representation" is a very old, very English principle.

      Simon de Montfort, who had ousted Edward's daddy for a year or so, even went so far to have non-nobles and fat cats sit in his parliament. Not entirely democratic but at least somewhat elected. And that was mid-13th century. There's a reason why he has a spot on a wall in the US House of Representatives dedicated to him. Stuff like that tends to linger. And once you went there you can't go back.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    44. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 2

      Well, you'll have to be fair. With the installation of Obamacare they have entered the 19th century. The pink leftie Otto von Bismarck introduced Mandatory Health Insurance for low incomes and the arch-communist Kaiser Wilhelm the First smiled on it.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    45. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      I predict differently. If the Republicans continue to embrace the Tea Party loonies then they will be making way for Democrat dominance.

      That strategy has lost them the election. And they will come to the same conclusion. The shift to the right will stop or the GOP is done for a long time. I don't really understand what they did in the primaries. The ultra-right will vote GOP anyway and you need to capture the moderates who can either vote Dem or GOP based on current policies they most identify with. If the party had shut the fuck up after the primaries then it would have been Romney by a landslide. GOP was unelectable for the majority of voters and that's why the Dems won.

      Just look at what happened. Two states somewhat legalized weed, an openly gay has been elected and to everybodies dismay having a WoW account doesn't disqualify you from office. And now look me straight in the eyes and tell me that Jeebus-based WASPy male-dominated politics have a chance in the US on a federal level. You do not win votes by how loud you shout.

      The GOP knows that and already has started acting on it. They will cooperate since they don't need to obstruct Obama for another 4 years. The guy will be gone no matter what they do. But now they CAN shed the Tea Baggers because they can now say that they lost them the election. They couldn't do that 2 years ago since they won the house which turned out to be a fluke.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    46. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      They demonstrably do.

      The GOP currently is in a bad shape and unelectable. In 4 years the Tea Party is either a ghost from the past or there will be a Democrat dominance for at least a decade.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    47. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      It truly is hilarious. The GOP moved so far to the right that they made Obama look like a leftie. I grew up in the 70ies and 80ies and for the past 10-15 years I have been wondering what on earth is going on with them? A year ago they would have taken the whole country by a landslide. Then they started campaigning.

      Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    48. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      ...which still doesn't explain how Gingrich even remotely managed to be a contender. That man is personally odious.

      I truly believe you are right. And this will be the conclusion the Republican party will have to come to or it will be unelectable on a federal level for the next decade.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    49. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Legion303 · · Score: 1

      It turns out there were 10-15 other candidates on the ballot depending on where you lived. Maybe you just weren't paying attention.

    50. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by roccomaglio · · Score: 1

      Obama has not exactly reached across the aisle either. The affordable healthcare law was not developed in committee, because Republicans could see it and make amendments. The Democrats choose to develop the law outside of usual process, because they knew they did not need a Republican vote to pass it. This is probably the most partisan thing I have seen in my lifetime.

    51. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The queen only gains power in the case of absolute gridlock in the system. Whilst she can be held responsible for the decision she makes her role then is to ensure a decision (for good or ill) IS made.

      Contrast this to the American system of lets play brinkmanship until we fall over the edge.

    52. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      I am not exactly disagreeing with you on any particular point but I would say that your view is perhaps overly simplistic. The fact is Obama got exactly two things of any consequence done in his first term, and incidentally those are the two things that if you actually poll the public you still see a near 50/50 split on if they were good or bad. During the first two years he had a majority in both houses. The fact that more did not happen in that period can not reasonably blamed on GOP obstructionism. It was political calculations by the DNC that did not pay off in the mid terms.

      Both parties are more concerned with wining than with any particular agenda. If you are naive enough to think otherwise I really feel sorry for you.

      There are also some pretty fundamental philosophical (not exactly policy) differences. That are hard to compromise on. These are things you feel a certain moral certainty about and obligation to fight for just because you are minority party is not a reason to not try and get your way if you can. Just imagine if Civil rights leaders in the 60's decided because they were in the minority they should just step aside until opinion shifts.

      Your comment about ideas not being soldiers in an imaginary war ignores the issue of things being institutionalized as well. You cannot deny the difficulty in rolling back ideas like the SSA or The mortgage interest deduction, and now the Affordable Care act. These are the sorts of things citizens architect their lives around. So if you really oppose them on a moral level, you have to fight them with everything you got because you KNOW we will live with these things probably for as long as we are one nation.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    53. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Yes, we Americans should get a much more logical political system, like the British. Maybe if we had a House of Lords and a royal family, we'd finally enter the 18th century.

      We have one. With the exception of Martin van Buren, the Presidents are decended from the Broom family (see Plantagenet). The cited King is John Lackland (Johan sans terre) who signed the big paper (see Magna Carta). His dad Richard the First (see Lionheart) was ransomed for what would be 3 billion in today's bucks (see king's ransom).

      --

      We have free bread (see money) and circuses (see politics).

    54. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      So the whole Rep/Dem thing is basically the same kerfuffle as the old York/Lancaster bit? Only with less codpieces? I can roll with that. Please do continue.

      I had said it before: Lackland's son was briefly ousted by a guy who had the audacity to call in an elected parliament. And his grandson and everybody else afterwards had to deal with them. Apart from the Norman Bastards all English monarchs were nothing without their subjects' consent. Henry the 8th was the closest to an absolute monarch as that blighted island ever got. The Stuarts tried to mimic him but they didn't get very far.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    55. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by jd.schmidt · · Score: 1

      Glad for the comments, but to be clear I am only talking about the next 2 years. Count the total votes, they were very close and if states had proportional allotment of electors, Romney may well have won. An R win IS in the cards for the midterms (I voted D btw). What’s more, don’t forget everyone in the House was up for reelection AND R maintained control during a “Democratic Victory”. This election was NOT, I repeat, NOT decisive either way. Thus there is no reason to suppose short term changes.

      I do think the dynamic has changed since eliminating Obama is no longer even a question (unless some tries to impeach him...I hope not), so everyone will be sneakier about how they avoid compromise, but still will avoid it. But another dynamic is that since R now still controls the house, they don’t have to filibuster ever last thing to stop laws they don’t like, they can just modify them to make the unpalatable and vice versa

      OTOH, in years 3-4 the Republicans do need to start making inroads into some, ANY, minority demographic or they will be in for a long dry spell going forward. But again I don’t think you will see that effect until after the midterms.

    56. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Last I checked you can't actually cast a negative vote, so you have to either abstain or vote FOR something.

      Yea, I disagree with that. Abstaining should count as a vote against all candidates.

      A vote for Romney would hardly be a vote AGAINST Gitmo, etc.

      Word.

      Voted against that asshole, too.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    57. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      Exactly. No dictator has ever held on to power without some sort of support. Monarchs of old England could never govern without the support of the nobles around the country. Parliament evolved from the talking shops of the royal court, and sufferage gradually increased as time wore on. That's why I roll my eyes every time I hear Americans talking as if they're the only democracy in the world, or as if they invented the concept a century ago. Hell, the English civil war advanced the cause of democracy and put parliament on top centuries before the colonial revolt.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    58. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      The Commonwealth wasn't exactly that democratic. I would place the Provisions of Oxford higher on that list.

      Also a monarch that had lost the support of his people was also in a very weak spot. Richard II knew exactly that when he personally met with Wat Tyler. The English monarchy had always been very unique in Europe. They constantly had to deal with taxpayer's strikes, revolts and insubordination when they took a wrong step.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    59. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      "small fringe" is sadly not, to my mind, a plausible interpretation of the evidence

      When you look at many votes on questions touched on by the theocrats, it's pretty clear that they enjoy substantial support from large segments and often majorities of the GOP electorate.

      I was reading an article in the Economist yesterday about this and the Republican Party declaring that the reason they lost was they weren't right enough and how the parties are very far apart ideologicaly while the actual issues they are working on are minor (the example they offered was debating tax rates of 36% versus 37.5%). The fanatics, or at least the Christian right, have the voice and the money and might just take their votes and money if they don't get what they want. Meanwhile, what's a moderate fiscal conservative that has always voted Republican to do? Unless they are willing to switch sides to the Democrats or a Third Party choice, they are still left with voting Republican and seemingly giving support to the fringe.

    60. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Joe+Decker · · Score: 1

      When I look to assess whether it's a few fringe conservative religious whackjobs running the GOP, or a large part of the base, I look to the results of individual ballot measures that touch on the questions that matter most to those folks--generally social conservative touchstones such as same-sex marriage, gay/lesbian employment discrimination measures, abortion, and so forth.

      Those measures, even when they fail, pull 40%+ support.

      I really see no way of explaining this as being a function of a tiny minority of the GOP.

      In this election, I was able to find six high-profile races that touched on "Christian value" issues. The percentage of voters taking the "pro-theocrat" position on these individual issues is indicated below.

      • Florida abortion funds: 44.9%
      • Florida religious school funding: 44.5%
      • Maine same-sex marriage: 47.1%
      • Maryland same-sex marriage: 47.9%
      • Minnesota same-sex marriage ban: 47.6%
      • Washington same-sex marriage: 48.3%

      These numbers are more or less consistent with each other and history, and in every case above, the individual voting patterns are highly party-aligned.

      What they are not consistent with is the idea that the theocrats are a tiny minority of the GOP.

    61. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      How does a "small fringe" hold the party hostage?

      Your logic is an absurdity.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    62. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the monarch plays a limited but important role in government. It is her job to appoint a Prime Minister (not always trivial in a hung parliament); and, it's her decision whether to call an election, or to appoint a new PM from the current Commons should the government fall on a confidence motion.

      You could eliminate the monarch...but then you'd just need to replace her with someone else who would do those jobs (call that person a president, chancellor, or whatever else you like). And what have you gained? (Aside from having to reprint all your currency, reissue passports to all your citizens, rewrite parts of your constitution, etc.).

      Any role the monarch plays in the government is too much. There is no good reason for institutionalized nepotism in government anymore.

    63. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by couchslug · · Score: 1

      The Democratic Party has moved so far right it IS the "moderate Republican" party in practice.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    64. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by couchslug · · Score: 1

      It's not a fringe. It's a massive base of Superstitionists, and they know exactly what they are doing.

      They ARE the GOP, which is now the Christian Taliban Corporate Party.

      That's why I'm no longer a Republican. I don't OWE any Party my support, so fuck 'em if they fail to serve me.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    65. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see that it is easier to mark me as a troll than to refute any of my reasonably argued points. Coward.

    66. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      First off, Obama did what he could with a Republican party that wanted nothing more than for him to lose his second term. Dont believe me? They even said this.

      You might want to get away from your liberal blogs from time to time: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/when-did-mcconnell-say-he-wanted-to-make-obama-a-one-term-president/2012/09/24/79fd5cd8-0696-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_blog.html

      Secondly, the Republican party is full of nut jobs and puppets.

      Totally, like this nut who thinks Guam is going to flip over and capsize: http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0410/Georgia_Dem_Guam_crowded_might_capsize.html

      We have something now called the internet, and despite the large amount of false data out there, the real data (and recordings) remain.

      Funny that, and you can't even get your own facts straight.

      We are smart, educated, and intelligent, something the Republican Party has feared for years.

      Spoken like a teenager who "knows it all." It's a good thing you figured everything out. I was worried for a bit because we had some difficult problems out there.

    67. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Why is it so hard to find one strong candidate?"

      Because no Republican wanted to waste his shot at being POTUS, so the "suicide squad" went under the bus.

      The GOP has no good ideas, but plans to wait until 2016 in opposition where they don't NEED any good ideas.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    68. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by couchslug · · Score: 1

      " We are smart, educated, and intelligent, something the Republican Party has feared for years."

      Let's not not break our arms patting ourselves on the back.
      "We" are NOW more composed of the demographics the scared, old, White Christian Taliban Kloset Klansmen openly hate. That chases away votes, and water is wet!

      Let me break it down for you. Even stupid voters get the relentless message the GOP hates their guts:

      The GOP sees niggers, not blacks, and no I DON'T care about the fools with brown skin who hope to change that from within because they get used like Colin Powell or run over like Condi Rice. The GOP
      doesn't care much for Spics, (Right Wing Cuban exiles excepted), as their anti-immigration "policies" demonstrate. The GOP hates Fags. The GOP hates anyone not an Superstitionist.

      Don't take MY word for it, read their party organ, Fox News!

      It stands to reason if you are a minority party which wants to preserve minority rule but your country chose to change its demographics, you can't have minority rule forever!

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    69. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Why give a fuck which Party you vote for?

      I want results, and owe neither outfit a damn thing.

      If you are a moderate Republican, the Dems don't hate you, but REAL Republicans consider you a RINO and an abomination.

      Any support you give people who despise you is bootlicking. I'm no longer a Republican. Fuck them and their Superstitionist nutcase base. If I liked "Taliban" I'd move to Afghanistan.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    70. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "and plays into the Democrat characterization of the GOP as the party for the rich, by the rich."

      That's what the GOP _is_. There is no trace of anything different.

      The rich use the Bible Thumpers as "Brown Shirts" to secure their rule. It's a fine strategy, but they can never pull a purge like the "Night of the Long Knives" because there are far too many of their American "Sturmabteilung" base.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    71. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Obama has not exactly reached across the aisle either. The affordable healthcare law..

      He didn't reach across the aisle? He didn't need to, he just took the plans the Republicans wrote up in the 90s, that Romney implemented in Massachusetts, and had his staffers replace the title. Or is using the Republican plan not enough? Did he need to bake them cookies too?

      People are mad because Obama doesn't show enough respect for Wall Street, say nice enough things about Republicans, or include them in slumber parties. That's all complete and utter bullshit. Obama's policies are extraordinarily centrist and lean more towards Republican than Democrat.

      FWIW, there were multiple attempts to include Republicans. The end result was always the same: Republicans filibuster and withdraw their support for the measure after getting everything they say they wanted. And you think Obama was the partisan?

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    72. Re:All that and he still only squeaked by by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      How does a "small fringe" hold the party hostage?

      Your logic is an absurdity.

      Not the GP, but the logic isn't absurd. The reality is absurd, but not the logic. The key: Primaries.

      Only the most dedicated voters vote in primaries. Here is the voter turnout from the US 2012 Primaries.

      Look at Virginia's Republican primary: 4.6% of the Voting-Eligible Population (VEP). Assuming only two candidates, the winner needed 50%+1 of that, so 2.3% of the VEP's support. Wyoming? 0.3% (winner at 0.15%).*

      --

      *I hope these ultra-low turnout states have some other reason, but I haven't looked into them enough. Maybe the state party just picks the winner without any actual voting by members?

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  3. Very interesting by wcrowe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't get involved in politics these days, but I'm still registered as a Republican. As a consequence, I still get political calls and mail from time to time. The one thing I've noticed about how the GOP operates is that they make a lot of assumptions about what I think on various issues. It's like they cannot fathom that I might look at things a little bit differently than the party line. After reading this article, it makes me wonder if the GOP is out of touch with other voters who lean to the right.

    It sounds like the Democrats have put a lot of effort into understanding their electorate.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lean to the right, but I find I share ground with a lot of weirdoes. Since I see plenty of weirdoes on the left, I think I'm resigned to the fact that the human race is weird.

      "It sounds like the Democrats have put a lot of effort into understanding their electorate."
      Or their advertisers have put a lot of effort into understanding their target market, and bending the message (or the perception of the message) so everyone thinks it includes them.

    2. Re:Very interesting by PRMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have the EXACT same experience. They were floored when I asked them whether their next presidential candidate had different view on redefining torture and if not, I was voting for Obama. The phone literally got so silent I could hear other conversations in the background clearly.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    3. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This election proved once and for all that the Democrats don’t need the Catholic vote to win, and it proved that evangelicals aren’t enough to hand victory to the Republicans.

      As an electoral force, the Catholic voters are now indistinguishable from the population at large, and thus are irrelevant as any sort of a unified voting block. The rank and file Catholics can’t even agree on the abortion issue.

      Conservative evangelicals, on the other hand, once the loud and dominant voice of the party, will be reduced to little more than a batshit-crazy niche interest group within the GOP. This is the group that gives rise to people like Todd Akin, and who are far more of a liability for the party when it comes to appealing to urban and educated people, which are a huge part of the voting population.

      In order to actually hope to win any national elections, the GOP or its successor party will need to flee from the batshit-crazy religious conservatives. The new coalition will have to appeal to young Ron Paul people, to gays, to Hispanics, to modern women, and to other anti-drug war libertarian types.

      No, I did not compose all of that, I paraphrased it with my personal touch and will not name the source because it will be ridiculed and modded down had the source been provided.

      -- Ethanol-fueled

    4. Re:Very interesting by lexman098 · · Score: 1

      They were trying to work out how to get you off the phone as quick as possible without insulting you.

    5. Re:Very interesting by superdave80 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It sounds like the Democrats have put a lot of effort into understanding their electorate.

      They put a lot of effort into knowing what the electorate wants to hear. Once in office, they could give a crap what the electorate thinks.

    6. Re:Very interesting by poity · · Score: 1

      It seems like this is just about finding out who has money, time, or social influence, and coaxing those out of people with a more focused approach. The greatest effect it has on their actual policy is to more clearly establish the boundaries of mass opinion so that they can color inside the lines so to speak and avoid controversy. It won't change the party message by much.

      "Understand" is also an interesting word to use, and perhaps appropriate -- one can understand in order to better serve, or understand in order to better manipulate. And of course in our partisan world, when our guys do it it's smart, when the other guys do it it's sinister and full of ulterior motives.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    7. Re:Very interesting by mariox19 · · Score: 2

      Political science is all about getting and keeping power. It's amoral. It's sad.

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

    8. Re:Very interesting by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The rank and file Catholics can’t even agree on the abortion issue.

      It's not that Catholics don't mostly agree that abortion is bad. It's that Catholics tend to be a lot more pragmatic as a group than their clergy would perhaps like. There are three factors here:

      • Catholics don't universally agree on whether it should be illegal—that is, whether their moral objection to it outweighs the need for a clear separation of church and state—whether they have the right to push what is essentially a religious belief on those who do not share that belief.
      • A sizable percentage of American Catholics realize that making it completely illegal has the potential to actually cost lives in some medical cases. That certainly isn't something that the Church as an institution will likely ever accept, but it is a reality that most American Catholics will concede. If your choice truly is whether to abort a fetus (or administer medical treatment that has the potential to kill the fetus) or let two people inevitably die, even most people who are against abortion in general have a hard time stomaching the latter.
      • Most Catholics recognize that there are more important issues that are more likely to actually have a real impact on the world. Roe v. Wade is a wedge that Republicans use to try to get votes, but in reality, they almost never actually do anything to try to change it.

      That last one is crucial to understanding Catholic voters. The abortion debate is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing—all talk, no action. As long as that remains the case, it makes sense to evaluate the candidates based on issues that they might realistically act upon—health care, civil rights, care for the poor, etc.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    9. Re:Very interesting by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      They were trying to work out how to get you off the phone as quick as possible without insulting you.

      Unlikely. Politely ending a phone call is going to be so common for campaigners that there are going to be at least a handful of generic scripts for them to follow. What this anecdote says is that the idea was not one the particular caller had ever considered and, more importantly to the GP's point, chances are their script writers had not either.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    10. Re:Very interesting by dunezone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have the EXACT same experience. They were floored when I asked them whether their next presidential candidate had different view on redefining torture and if not, I was voting for Obama. The phone literally got so silent I could hear other conversations in the background clearly.

      Listed as a Republican so they call me as well. The last time they called the individual on the other side of the phone immediately jumped into a speech about appealing Obama Care. Never asked my opinion or anything just immediately assumed I was against it because I was registered as a Republican. It became very awkward for him when I started talking about how I liked some of the provisions within the bill and that I would rather see improvements instead of a full appeal of the bill.

      Unless the Republican party starts to accept that certain social/political/economic norms are changing they will continue to bleed voters.

    11. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Catholics made hypocricy part of the Christian lifestyle. No, I'm not trying to be insulting. Unlike the cut-and-dry Protestants, who have only right and wrong, heaven and hell, the Catholics have purgatory and absolution.

      A good Catholic is an ardent, practicing believer who breaks every rule in the book and ignores the explicit instructions of the Church. They don't try to change the Church or prove it wrong. They can have it bothways and not be bothered by philosophical contradictions.

    12. Re:Very interesting by ibwolf · · Score: 1

      It sounds like the Democrats have put a lot of effort into understanding their electorate.

      They put a lot of effort into knowing what the electorate wants to hear. Once in office, they could give a crap what the electorate thinks.

      Whereas the Republicans skip straight to not giving a crap about what the electorate thinks. Must admit, very efficient.

    13. Re:Very interesting by wcrowe · · Score: 1

      almost never actually do anything to try to change it.

      Hear, hear! I've been a voter for over 30 years and I've seen plenty of times when we had a conservative-majority senate and congress, a conservative president, and a conservative supreme court, and yet Roe v Wade is still the law of the land. I too have become cynical on the abortion issue. The GOP doesn't want to get rid of it because it's one of those issues that gets out the vote. Really, it's the only reason Mitt Romney (the John Kerry of the right) got the votes he did.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    14. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Most Catholics recognize that there are more important issues that are more likely to actually have a real impact on the world."

      This is the part I don't understand. There have been 50 million abortions since RvW. Ending of life on such a massive scale has never been done before and every war pales in comparison. In NYC 40% of pregnancies end in abortion. Deleting 20% of the population of human life in the US seems like it would actually be a huge issue. The problem is that people don't understand how to compare to a what if. It's why Obama had an issue explaining that the depression he averted was actually a good thing.

    15. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly you're at fault for not following the propaganda, that's why the attack ads dont' speak to you. Thinking for yourself. How unpatriotic!

    16. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, democrats did put a lot of effort into understanding their electorate - but only for the end result of 'winning'... they targeted certain voters with gimmicks... 'winning at all costs'... Demagoguery has become an art form. Revenge their mantra. And you worry about the Republicans not understanding you? I suggest that you worry about your country more than yourself!

    17. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whereas the Republicans skip straight to not giving a crap about what the electorate thinks. Must admit, very efficient.

      Very.

      Of course if the GOP had spent less time sabotaging Ron Paul, and more time figuring out why he was a threat in the first place, they'd have been much better off. But it seems that they'd rather have a candidate that they can control, than one who can win.

    18. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm registered Republican, but have Libertarian leanings.

      I worked for a guy once (not politically) who was a Republican State Representative in Kentucky. He'd fill my ear with talk about dirty-Democrat-this, and dirty-Democrat-that. But he never discussed the merits of any actual issues. It was just a contest to him. Like 2 football teams trying to win a game. When I'd try and articulate a viewpoint that wasn't party-line (for either party) and try and discuss why problem X needed solution Y, he would just stare at me blankly.

      When he helped find a candidate for another district and supported him, I met the guy. Nice, but he was clueless and horribly naive. Get those two together though, and they'd have an orgy of team-talk about how to beat them dirty-Democrats.

      I'm sure it's the same at the national level. There's no conception within the party leadership that America is teetering on the brink right now financially. Or that our string of wars is destroying us. Instead they're just playing their game. With no conception of the stakes the rest of us have to pay when our problems aren't solved. If someone like Ron Paul comes along and doesn't follow the rules of the game, they stare at him blankly. Then they get annoyed at him and do everything they can to torpedo his campaign. Rather than stop and think about why this guy has the support he does.

      So they lost the race that any trained chimp in a suit should have been able to win. Stupid.

    19. Re:Very interesting by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      It's not that people can't compare the "what if" scenario so much as that it is meaningless to do so. For abortions in the past, you can't go back and prevent them, and for abortions in the future, the hypothetical "What if I vote Republican and they overturn Roe v. Wade" scenario is a pipe dream. It's a fantasy that will never happen. Thus, that "what if" scenario isn't meaningful except in a purely academic discussion. By contrast, providing material support for the poor so that they are much less likely to decide to have an abortion in the first place is something that can and does reduce abortion deaths every day.

      For example, Obamacare's improvements to the availability of drug and alcohol treatment programs will likely do more to reduce the number of abortions and substance-induced miscarriages in this country than everything the Republicans have done since Roe v. Wade put together. It has its flaws, sure, but on the whole, it's a win.

      That's the key difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. The Republicans try to make it harder to do what they consider wrong, whereas the Democrats try to make it easier to do what they think is right. The Republicans want a pure rule that bans everything that they consider bad, whereas the Democrats accept that there will always be wrong in the world, and the only thing we can do as a people is to try to make it easier to do right and to lead by example.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    20. Re:Very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rank and file Catholics can’t even agree on the abortion issue.

      It's not that Catholics don't mostly agree that abortion is bad. It's that Catholics tend to be a lot more pragmatic as a group than their clergy would perhaps like. There are three factors here:

      • Catholics don't universally agree on whether it should be illegal—that is, whether their moral objection to it outweighs the need for a clear separation of church and state—whether they have the right to push what is essentially a religious belief on those who do not share that belief.
      • A sizable percentage of American Catholics realize that making it completely illegal has the potential to actually cost lives in some medical cases. That certainly isn't something that the Church as an institution will likely ever accept, but it is a reality that most American Catholics will concede. If your choice truly is whether to abort a fetus (or administer medical treatment that has the potential to kill the fetus) or let two people inevitably die, even most people who are against abortion in general have a hard time stomaching the latter.
      • Most Catholics recognize that there are more important issues that are more likely to actually have a real impact on the world. Roe v. Wade is a wedge that Republicans use to try to get votes, but in reality, they almost never actually do anything to try to change it.

      That last one is crucial to understanding Catholic voters. The abortion debate is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing—all talk, no action. As long as that remains the case, it makes sense to evaluate the candidates based on issues that they might realistically act upon—health care, civil rights, care for the poor, etc.

      I always thought that the mother's life took priority. She may have other children to raise, she may have heart or other physical problems that, giving birth, could end her life. She could also, at a later date, when there is controlled medical care, give birth to a healthy baby. We also have to consider that the fetus may show signs of being ill-formed and perhaps born as a vegetable.

  4. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we declare these people to be terrorists yet?

    Voters should be checking out the candidates. Not the other way around.

  5. What Axelrod can do, Rove can do as well by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    Once people figure out how to do a certain something, other people can do it too.

    1. Re:What Axelrod can do, Rove can do as well by Mysticeti · · Score: 1

      Actually, I thought Rove was one of the pioneers on this. Wasn't he in direct mail marketing before he took up politics?

    2. Re:What Axelrod can do, Rove can do as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not exactly, because they are targeting different demographics.

      A proactive electorate wants somebody on the campaign staff to validate their desires, to reflect that the campaign's message aligns with their values, both in actions and statements.

      A reactive electorate could not care less about the campaign of their own party, really, and absolutely will rely on the assumption that the opposition is/will be worse by comparison.

      It's like saying Rove could promise to shave his mustache if his candidate loses the election. Sure, he could - but he'd actually have to grow a mustache in the first place or he will simply be seen as making an empty promise. "I will increase military spending, cut taxes for everyone, maintain critical services, and close tax loopholes to reduce the deficit." Sure you will, buddy.

      The best evidence to demonstrate the habits of the latter, reactive, group was the nearly-universal conviction that the eventual nominee's religion was a cult during the primary process. Nonetheless, evangelicals and devout religious folk of all stripes put out endorsement after endorsement during the general election campaign. That's because there was an evil Kenyan Muslim already occupying the White House, by some estimates.

  6. There are worse things by Iamthecheese · · Score: 2

    than a president who understands technology and has been in charge of groups manipulating and using big data.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  7. Does it bother anyone... by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ....that candidates are winning elections via data mining versus appealing to people with ideas?

    It seems like Wall Street's version of capitalism -- just focus on the numbers, not on making a newer widget, and we can manipulate our way to victory.

    I know, you can make the argument that sending the right message to the people receptive that message will get you money, votes, whatever, but at the same time it seems cynical and manipulative. It doesn't seem like it's about developing leadership ideas that appeal to people generally and winning them over with charisma and the strength of your arguments.

    1. Re:Does it bother anyone... by Mitreya · · Score: 2

      Does it bother anyone... ....that candidates are winning elections via data mining versus appealing to people with ideas?

      It seems like Wall Street's version of capitalism -- just focus on the numbers, not on making a newer widget, and we can manipulate our way to victory.

      Yes, yes it does.
      But then Obama had manipulated his way to victory by making "idea" promises too, 4 years ago. He promised to undo most of questionable Bush-administration tactics, but instead he expanded on (most of) them.

      So yes, they use what they can

      When they had a candidate with very little record on issues, he ran on ideas that appealed to people. Never mind that he turned around and did the opposite for a shocking number of promises right away. Not "tried to follow up and failed" but "did the exact opposite right away"
      Now that they have a candidate with 4 years of public record, they ran on data-mining numbers and "Romney will be worse for the country" instead

      Anything to win, there are no honorable political campaigns, at least not on that level.

    2. Re:Does it bother anyone... by wile_e8 · · Score: 2

      ....that candidates are winning elections via data mining versus appealing to people with ideas?

      I wouldn't say that that they won via data mining, they still appealed to people with ideas to win the election. They just used data mining to determine the best way to present the ideas in order to appeal to the most people more efficiently.

    3. Re:Does it bother anyone... by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      Do you know anybody who either decided to vote, or changed their vote, based on some stranger autodialing their number? I don't, and I don't imagine this sort of shift would happen often enough to actually change the election. It sounds like they used data mining to optimize campaign contributions more than anything else.

      The republicans had an utterly weak candidate. Even with the economy as trashed as it is, they couldn't take the silver platter offered to them, just like the democrats couldn't capitalize on GWB's unpopularity for his second term even though it should have been a shoo-in.

    4. Re:Does it bother anyone... by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's wrong with data mining? It's effectively the same job that campaign managers have been doing for decades (or more), but now more accurately. In the 1800s, a candidate could campaign on a platform of what he thought the voters wanted to hear. Now, candidates can know the views of their constituents, and make plans and promises based on more accurate information.

      Now, I'm not naive enough to think that all those promises will be kept, but it does bode well that the elected officials have a pretty accurate model of their constituents, should they actually decide to refer to it.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    5. Re:Does it bother anyone... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      It bothers me deeply, but it doesn't surprise me.

    6. Re:Does it bother anyone... by dunezone · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with data mining?

      Absolutely nothing. From my understanding the Obama campaign didn't go to areas that were red and tried to convince them to vote blue. Instead they went to areas that were already blue and used the information that was being data mined to find those that weren't voting. I would assume its easier to convince someone to vote then it is to switch political parties.

    7. Re:Does it bother anyone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they data mine to win elections, maybe they can leverage data mining techniques to properly run the country and give people what they want. The numbers, in the end, are *real*. A campaign that run on faith and gut instincts and self-delusion shows a candidate ill equipped to deal with the reality of government. It's only manipulative insofar as all election campaigning is manipulative - that's the whole point.

    8. Re:Does it bother anyone... by SoupIsGood+Food · · Score: 1

      Depends - do you think a government should govern according to the will of the people, or do you think the people should be ruled by men of ideas?

      As a fan of democracy, I have absolutely no problems with a candidate finding out what the people want and need, and using that as a platform from which to run.

  8. vs. Orca by klui · · Score: 3, Informative

    I wonder how large this database was compared to Romney's Orca. http://washingtonexaminer.com/stunned-romney-supporters-struggle-to-explain-defeat/article/2512861#.UJqIxRh8zOU The article said the system crashed. I'm pretty sure that's the system Karl Rove was looking at when he was on Fox News trying to rebut their analysts' projection of an Obama victory in Ohio. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/karl-rove-causes-fox-news-chaos-by-challenging-obama-victory-projection/

  9. More and More Data... by ideonexus · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...moving us closer and closer to psychohistory.

    --
    i ~ Celebrating Science, Cyberspace, Speculation
    1. Re:More and More Data... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...moving us closer and closer to psychohistory.

      Nate Silver (or other predictors) might be be doing so

      This data analysis is the exact opposite of psychohistory.

      First, it was specifically aimed at groups of people and could not predict actions of an individual. The campaign mining is actually about doing by-individual analysis to see what kind of plea/solicitation they may respond to best.

      Second, the population should remain ignorant of the application of psychohistory rules or they may be affected by such knowledge. And we clearly know about the data mining

      So interesting, yes -- but we may be waiting for psychohistory for a while. Unless, of course, the Seldon plan is already in motion and we are under the control of second found... $^@%#$@!#$ NO CARRIER

  10. /. and CNN having a same front page story by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    /. editors! You should start to pull your hair out.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  11. they want you to vote 4 times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they want you to vote 4 times

  12. Re:Ooga Booga! Me Obonga! by couchslug · · Score: 4, Funny

    Works for me!

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  13. We don't need people to govern us either by gelfling · · Score: 0

    Fire up the President ClusterBot. May as well, the guy we got has as much charm and personality as a machine and is inspiring as a vacuum cleaner.

    All Hail

  14. Re:There's also complete fucking cheating by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2012/11/cowards-lose.html

    To save everyone else the trouble of falling for this AC's link-bait, the site above is nothing but the butthurt ramblings of a xenophobic loser.

    The irony of the URL is not lost on me.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  15. There is another perspective.... by 3seas · · Score: 1

    ... the data crunchers with the help of the spying on Americans and MSM entertainment control were able to figure out exactly how to manipulate many things to achieve the goal of what they were hired to do. To cause the voters to believe they actually voted the way it was said to have.

    Fact is voter turnout was the lowest it has been at least as far back as prior to 1948 election perhaps further back.
    Obama trailed at roughly under 1 million for most of the tally and then was approx 1.5 million behind Romney in popular vote when declared the winner.

    So with less that 50% of eligible voters voting .....the people did not elect anyone. But hey it made for a sports style event with teh last minute tally comeback.

    This was not a sports event!

    Given the political bias I have seen on slashdot.... I do expect this to be moderated troll.... But that not like our election voting.... is it?

    1. Re:There is another perspective.... by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 2

      ... the data crunchers with the help of the spying on Americans and MSM entertainment control were able to figure out exactly how to manipulate many things to achieve the goal of what they were hired to do. To cause the voters to believe they actually voted the way it was said to have.

      Fact is voter turnout was the lowest it has been at least as far back as prior to 1948 election perhaps further back.
      Obama trailed at roughly under 1 million for most of the tally and then was approx 1.5 million behind Romney in popular vote when declared the winner.

      So with less that 50% of eligible voters voting .....the people did not elect anyone. But hey it made for a sports style event with teh last minute tally comeback.

      This was not a sports event!

      Given the political bias I have seen on slashdot.... I do expect this to be moderated troll.... But that not like our election voting.... is it?

      So what are you saying? A non-voter should count as a Romney voter? Obama lost?

      Take your beating like a man, you self-pitying twerp.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    2. Re:There is another perspective.... by hibiki_r · · Score: 2

      Behind in the popular vote for most of the tally... sure, because the west coast has an very high population, and every state in the coast votes for the Democrats more often than not. Therefore, the popular vote will always look to favor the republican candidate, barring an absolute Dem. landslide that we've not seen in our lifetimes.

      And really, complaining about a low turnout when most elections have a winner-take-all approach is rather naive. If a race is is not in a dead heat, chances that a presidential vote will matter in the slightest are near zero. Same thing when picking a congressman. How motivated are republicans to go vote in California? How about democrats in Utah? If anything, we are seeing too high a turnout for the electoral system being used.

      Then again, complaining about low turnout is a great excuse when the end result of the election is something you do not like.

  16. Still needs more consolidation by medv4380 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of their callers let it slip what my "ranking" was. For some reason they think I'm a strong democrat. I'm not sure what they think that means because if the Republicans would ever get their act together and field a Strong Moderate Republican like Powell then I'd vote Republican. Instead they've taken the last decade purging out moderates and acting crazy. Someone failed to consolidate those database though. If they had done it right then they would know they called my home phone, and cell phone. You only have to confirm that I'm voting once, maybe twice. After that I ether am voting or I've been Joshing you. But no, I got about 13 calls from them. Each campaign needs to share data so I don't get inundated by the local legislature, house and presidential campaign. I can't imagine what actual battle ground states actually got since I'm in an area where the winner could have been called a year before the election.

    1. Re:Still needs more consolidation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a registered Libertarian at a new address in a house in a "starter" neighborhood ($180k houses). I donated exactly $10 to Obama's campaign, and they were able to find me (at home) twice to make sure that I voted. They (Democrats) emailed me a "thank you" for voting for Obama, early, when I did a mail-in ballot. I don't remember giving up any rights, posting any signs, or making my preference known to anyone. They found me, and one of the volunteers was really cute!

    2. Re:Still needs more consolidation by turp182 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a good reason to not affiliate with any party. I didn't get any calls during the election season. I did have to put up with the terrible ads on TV, but that's what a DVR is for.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    3. Re:Still needs more consolidation by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      One of their callers let it slip what my "ranking" was. For some reason they think I'm a strong democrat. I'm not sure what they think that means because if the Republicans would ever get their act together and field a Strong Moderate Republican like Powell then I'd vote Republican. Instead they've taken the last decade purging out moderates and acting crazy.

      There's your answer. The Strong Moderate Republican you are waiting for is most likely a Democrat these days but you are possibly tied to a party name and color rather than issues. The quote that was going around this election that I head was “I’m undoubtedly a liberal, which means that I’m in almost total agreement with the Eisenhower-era Republican Party platform.”

    4. Re:Still needs more consolidation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oddly enough, as a registered Libertarian, I got no get-out-the-vote calls at all. Definitely a perk.

  17. Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 3, Funny
    re: determining factors were basics like age, sex, race, neighborhood and voting record
    .

    Voting record? I thought we had secret ballots in this country and that no one is supposed to have access to individual voters' voting records? Do they mean simply registration records and if they voted in a particular election?

    And it seemed worrisome that the government would tabulate this infomation on us so they outlawed it; then they found the loophole that while the gov't couldn't compile the data, private companies could, and then the gov't can look at the private companies' data and still proclaim they never broke the law. "Brave New World", indeed...

    1. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      re: determining factors were basics like age, sex, race, neighborhood and voting record .

      Voting record? I thought we had secret ballots in this country and that no one is supposed to have access to individual voters' voting records? Do they mean simply registration records and if they voted in a particular election?

      No, they meant your actual votes.

      Ever notice, when you walk up to the poll worker, how they scan your ID, write a number next to your name in their little book, then write the same number on the top of your ballot?

      Yea, secret my ass.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      In some states you must publicly declare yourself to be either a republican or democart in order to vote in the primaries. I'm guessing that's the record they are refering to.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    3. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      Private polls conducted by the campaign. "Click here to indicate that you voted for Obama." Nothing illegal about it.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    4. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by blueg3 · · Score: 2

      Ever notice, when you walk up to the poll worker, how they scan your ID, write a number next to your name in their little book, then write the same number on the top of your ballot?

      ...

      In New York, at least, every part of this statement is false.

    5. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by blueg3 · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's the record of whether or not you voted, which is public information. (Which party you declare when you register, and whether you're registered, is also public information.)

      One of the things they talk about in TFA (I know, I know) is that an important part of their model is figuring out whether people are likely to vote and, for those who aren't but could be convinced, what strategy will convince them to vote. Probably your past history of whether you've voted is a component in that analysis.

    6. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1
      Thanks for your answer. I did read the FA; I must have missed that point. I didn't realize that voter registries were public information. Are you required to give your phone-number? That must be how people get all of the robo-call spams for elections...

      .

      Can you refuse to give a phone number when you register? (I'm not registered; I'm not old enough yet. My parents tend to think that they're always required to give out stuff like their own email and phone numbers; they pretty much do it at almost every cash-register person who asks.)

    7. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same thing in Arkansas. If you're voting electronically, the poll worker writes a sequential number down on a slip, but that's only so that you have proof that you've signed in. You hand that slip to the poll worker at the machines, and you can pick whichever machine is open, meaning that your vote can't be traced back to you. If you vote with paper (like I did, mainly to avoid the electronic machine line), they never assigned me a number at all, and the ballot wasn't even numbered (not even a bar code).

    8. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by denvergeek · · Score: 1

      A name and physical address is more than enough information to get a phone number, by bumping that against other databases. Of course, you have to pay to do so, but marketers have been doing it for a long time.

    9. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by denvergeek · · Score: 1

      You can obtain party affiliation, registration status, and information on if you've voted or not at the county level. Your vote is still secret. But if you registered as a Democrat and have voted fairly consistently in the past few election cycles, it's not a big leap to assume who you've voted for in the past.

      You can try it yourself. Call your local county government and ask what it costs to get voter data. Some counties make it available online for a fee, others will snail mail you a CD. Campaigns either go county-by-county to get this information, or go to a data acquisition company to obtain it. Bonus points if you keep that data updated frequently, as you can ignore folks who have already voted

    10. Re:Aren't vote records private / secret ballot? by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      I don't recall if you even have the option of giving them your phone number. But, with a name and address, getting a phone number is pretty easy.

  18. Re:Ooga Booga! Me Obonga! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Obonga is gonna bankrupt this nation and let the mud races defile white women as your slavery reparations payment, too. Now that he has now political accountability you will see his true colors shine through.

    Well, if the alternative is having the nation led by the people a bigoted simpleton like yourself would vote for, I'd say we came out ahead.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  19. Privacy Violations? by Tora · · Score: 2, Funny

    And this doesn't frighten ANY of the privacy advocates here on slashdot? Were this any other government organization people would be screaming to the hills, so why is Obama given a free pass for this sort of privacy incursions?

    --
    tora
  20. Reiterate it till the cows come home. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They care about winning, not getting it "right".
    Government has gotten really good at screwing things up because that's all it's ever been good at. But keep voting for more of it and expecting a different result. Maybe one day the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

    Lastly, If you have so much faith in humanity, what do you need so much government for?

  21. A political party that is against profiling... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This sure seems like. Profiling.

  22. Are we talking about the president... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...that didn't know how to answer an iPhone, and then blamed the phone's owner?

  23. In Business we call this "Single View of Customer" by richardoz · · Score: 1

    It's nothing new and has been around for 20+ years. Anytime data is siloed in separate systems, you need to consider this technique.

    --
    All the worlds indeed a .sig, and we are mearly players..
  24. Re:Ooga Booga! Me Obonga! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    This is why you stupid fucks lost.

    This is why we no longer have a credible opposition party in America.

    This is why we're all screwed.

  25. Yeah well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's great but Great Britain's like half the size of California (with just under twice the population .. 66mil in UK vs 37mil in CA according to wikipedia etc). There's one government, and it's local.

    The US has lots of local governments (that often work quite well, and can recall, etc). The federal government OTOH oversees like 300 million people and a huge landmass.

    1. Re:Yeah well by SpottedKuh · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are you saying that there aren't local governments in the UK? Because that's not correct in the slightest.

      Or are claiming that the landmass of a nation determines when it can be successful as a monarchy? Because Canada is larger than the US, and functions well enough with a queen and parliamentary system very similar to the UK.

      Or are you claiming that it's population size that determines if a monarchy could work as a form of government? Claiming it doesn't scale with population is as ridiculous as claiming that counting ballots by hand doesn't scale in large populations -- the arguments just make no sense.

    2. Re:Yeah well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying that there aren't local governments in the UK? Because that's not correct in the slightest.

      Or are claiming that the landmass of a nation determines when it can be successful as a monarchy? Because Canada is larger than the US, and functions well enough with a queen and parliamentary system very similar to the UK.

      Or are you claiming that it's population size that determines if a monarchy could work as a form of government? Claiming it doesn't scale with population is as ridiculous as claiming that counting ballots by hand doesn't scale in large populations -- the arguments just make no sense.

      Largest population (most diversity of viewpoint/opinion) largest collection of sub-components (states with wildly different laws, histories, etc) and the largest GDP in the world... This isn't Canada, or the UK, or any other country you can think of. This is America, and even if you don't want to admit that we are better, you need to at least admit we aren't ANYTHING like you.

  26. Hammer, Nail, Head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As an ex-Catholic, this is exactly correct.

    There are, I think, a variety of things that go into it. You're very conscious of your religion not being as relevant to the rest of the world as it used to.

    Abortion is a Protestant, almost a Fundamentalist issue. You could get worked up about it, but you could get worked up about the Protestants too, but you could actually do what that Yeshua bar Yehosef guy said and shut the hell up about it.

  27. I'm serious. Try using math. by jensend · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, only squeaked by. Almost 120 million people voted. If around 130,000 of those - ~50K in VA, ~55K in OH, and ~25K in Florida - had switched to Romney, the outcome would have been a Romney presidency. That's less than 1.5% of VA, less than 1.1% of OH, less than 0.4% of FL, and less than 0.011% of the national vote.

    Nate Silver tried hard to correct your misconception:

    IMPORTANT: That we have Obama as a ~90% favorite does NOT mean we're predicting a landslide. We expect a close election.

    And a close election is what we had. That the outcome could be predicted with fairly good certainty doesn't mean it wasn't close.

    1. Re:I'm serious. Try using math. by colinrichardday · · Score: 2

      No. Obama would still have had 272 electoral votes. He has 303 right now (not including Florida) and OH/VA are only worth 31 EV combined.

    2. Re:I'm serious. Try using math. by jensend · · Score: 0

      You're right; I forgot that Florida isn't being counted in Obama's EV total. But adding any other state to what I stated above would do the job; my point still holds.

      For instance, 21K votes in NH also switching would have done it. Still less than 0.13% of the national vote required to switch.

      (yes, I made a typo in my previous post, this isn't 0.014%)

    3. Re:I'm serious. Try using math. by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      An artifact of the electoral college. Besides, 21K votes in NH is quite a few.

  28. Romney kicked ass but was doomed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually the Republicans didn't have a chance in hell.

    Romney was actually by far the best they had to offer, probably the best overall since Ike. And that's saying something.

    And Obama had managed to piss off a shitload of liberals and moderates, in fact he's a moderate wuss.

    The problem is the extreme right: Tea Party, Republican Theocrats, and Libertarians have pissed off people even more than Obama has. I'm really surprised that Romney made as good a showing as he did.

    The Conservative nutters picked up a few seats in the House, obviously due to gerrymandering, because they lost seats in the senate, something they really can't gerrymander. And that's where the truth shows.

  29. How the left won by Frankie70 · · Score: 1
    1. Re:How the left won by denobug · · Score: 2

      The Left didn't win because of organization. The Left won because the Right is intolerant of the Moderate (at least the hard-core Left learned to keep quiet, for the most part), making Left looks like more accommodating to the Moderate than the Right. And Moderate don't like being push out of the circle.

    2. Re:How the left won by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      "The Left" didn't win. Try Europe for "The Left". The less batshit-mental right won.

    3. Re:How the left won by Legion303 · · Score: 1

      beelzebub

      Come on, Wingtards, figure it out. Is Obama Satan? Is he Marx? Hitler? He's not all of them. Get a god damn consensus.

      Back on topic, I don't know what the criteria were for this database. I've never been registered Democrat. I've never donated, time or money. I've never even participated in an exit poll. But fuck me, I was getting 4 robocalls a day from them, a full snail mail box, shit taped to my door...I never even got to tell anyone in person why Obama could fuck off this cycle, but at least I got to jerk off to Eva Longoria's recorded voice. Thanks, Eva.

    4. Re:How the left won by beaverdownunder · · Score: 1

      There was some dude on the Daily Show who let slip that they use (in part) information purchased from reward cards, your credit score, and other commercially-purchasable demographic information such as warranty cards.

      His argument was that this was doing the voter a service by enabling (the Democrats) to sell them a 'targeted message'. Jon nervously laughed at him but it was clear even he thought this wasn't a particularly comfortable revelation.

      Americans aren't voters anymore, they're customers, and the party in power is the corporation that was able to sell their message to the majority of them.

    5. Re:How the left won by TheLink · · Score: 1

      My question is with all that fancy stuff did Obama really win by a huge margin?

      --
    6. Re:How the left won by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.redstate.com/2012/11/07/about-tuesdays-loss-if-the-archangel-michael-were-on-the-ballot-beelzebub-would-still-have-won/

      Organization, Organization and more Organization.

      Redstate's terrible ad hominem aside, they are correct. The Right is just too dysfunctional to mount an effective campaign. And that's not the Left's fault at all; no one is stopping the Right from putting boots on the ground, or being more precise in GOTV efforts.

      It comes down to this, if you can't win when the sitting President has had 8% unemployment for pretty much his whole term, you do NOT deserve to be in charge of ANYTHING. I am glad Obama won, because even if Mitt was "right and just" he and his party are too incompetent to be trusted.

    7. Re:How the left won by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      beelzebub

      Come on, Wingtards, figure it out. Is Obama Satan? Is he Marx? Hitler? He's not all of them. Get a god damn consensus.

      Back on topic, I don't know what the criteria were for this database. I've never been registered Democrat. I've never donated, time or money. I've never even participated in an exit poll. But fuck me, I was getting 4 robocalls a day from them, a full snail mail box, shit taped to my door...I never even got to tell anyone in person why Obama could fuck off this cycle, but at least I got to jerk off to Eva Longoria's recorded voice. Thanks, Eva.

      Solution is easy, get rid of your landline you old coot. The direct mail stuff happens no matter who you are, but for me as someone who "participates" i didnt get a single political phone call all cycle (and havent for years).

    8. Re:How the left won by Legion303 · · Score: 1

      Well, the numbers are there to look at. A sliver of the popular vote (won by ~250K iirc) but a landslide of the Electoral College (303 to 205 or thereabouts, with FL still missing when I saw the numbers) vote. Which is why both candidates spent so much time in only 10 states.

  30. Re:Ooga Booga! Me Obonga! by denobug · · Score: 1

    Thanks AC and I think you just made a valid point.

  31. Re:Ooga Booga! Me Obonga! by Arancaytar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I kind of prefer the refreshing taste of straight-up racism. Much more honest than the veiled and coded kind that every GOP voter (apart from the ones like you) subscribes to.

  32. Jobs Corp Vans by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

    I imagine that their database helped determine who needed a taxpayer-paid-for-lift to the polls. http://www.redstate.com/briansikma/2012/11/06/federal-job-corps-vans-used-to-bus-voters-in-wisconsin/

  33. Perception over Reality by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1
    It's easier to manipulate perception than to manipulate reality; it's easier to make people believe you're going to or already have fixed the problem than it is to actually work on the problem itself. The sad sad outrageous part is that they then spend (a large integer) times the amount of money on manipulating perception than the amount of money that they might have needed to address the problem.

    The "focus on the numbers" and "fix the perception so we look like we're winning" is the same as:

    .

    Lowering your cholesterol number by taking a drug like Lipitor. Instead of fixing the problem with diet (eat better food, stop eating the junky fatty food, eat only as much food as needed) and exercise (exercise more, don't sit down in front of the tv so much), people have found a magic pill that lowers your cholesterol reading but does not do anything to actually make your health better.

    .

    Yes, the drug lowers your cholesterol number, but it doesn't decrease your risk of heart attacks or the risk of any of the bad diseases associated with high cholesterol. Hmmm... So it makes you feel better by giving you a better score? Hey, let's give everybody an "A" so they're all smarter! Hey, let's give everybody an award for being on the softball team instead of actaully giving awards for real achievement.

    If you've already got a population that's willing to accept

    -- fake awards without earning/deserving them and to accept

    -- fakey medical test results that don't really improve their health, then that's the kind of population that will believe anything you tell them in order to get them to vote for you.

  34. Re:Ooga Booga! Me Obonga! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who would have thought that Donald Trump reads Slashdot?

  35. yes. and yes. by mgbastard · · Score: 1

    I wish I could say more... yes.

    --
    Anyone seen my low uid? last seen 10 years ago while panning the #@$# out of Taco's 'web based discussion system'
  36. don't need no high tech by kenorland · · Score: 1

    Use your datamining to actually get government right. Figure out what everybody wants, and find a solution

    You know what everybody wants: lots of free loot and they want their neighbors to stop living in ways that they don't approve of (a pony is optional but appreciated by the kids). And they want all of that without paying for it themselves and without any restrictions on their own liberties.

    And the solution is also simple: as a politician, you pass laws giving people free loot, pay for it by borrowing money (preferably from other countries), and then leave your successor to worry about the mess you made. And if you're really good at it, you manage to deceive both the voters and yourself with talk of "trickle down economics" or "Keynesian stimulus", because that sounds so much better than "corruption" and "buying votes". For particular speaking engagements, you throw in a little ideology like "Christianity" or "progressivism" (all these ideologies are pretty much interchangeable) and get the supporters all riled up with a little demonization of the other guys. Romney and Obama were both equally good at this kind of deception and self-deception, and thus they split the vote pretty evenly.

    You don't need high tech to figure this out.

    1. Re:don't need no high tech by Nite_Hawk · · Score: 1

      I think what's scary is that it seems like there are a significant number of people that care more about their relative status in society more than they care about the baseline. IE they would rather have more than their neighbor even if it meant both standards of living were lower than they would be otherwise. I think this is what fuels some very bad decisions that our society makes.

    2. Re:don't need no high tech by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      The thing the database helped Obama with is figuring out which ideology to throw out in a particular speaking engagement, i.e., he was better at keeping his lies straight this time.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    3. Re:don't need no high tech by kenorland · · Score: 1

      Yeah, sadly you're right. In fact, there was an NPR story about how Obama had been much more adept at "targeting" and "adapting" his message to specific audiences, while Romney delivered pretty much the same message to every audience and market.

  37. Massive database with no correctability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Over the course of the 3 or 4 weeks leading up to the election, I received 7 phone calls from Obama's organization asking for "Anthony". My name is Jim. There never has been an "Anthony" with this phone number, at least not in the last 7 years. Despite my repeated pleas to remove the number from their list, they continued to call - the last being about 7PM Monday. The last caller told me that she had no way of correcting the problem. I hope the administration is up to greater challenges than a simple database update.

  38. The 2016 polling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And so the 2016 presidential election machine generated gamma waves — those linked to consciousness, attention, learning and memory — never before reported in neuro- and political sciences — and it called itself the Skynet.

  39. Is the secret ballot a myth? by Jerry · · Score: 1

    "and voting records"???

    Aside from party affiliation from registration records, which says nothing about whom the voter actually voted for in the Nov election, just HOW did the DNC get a hold of individual voting records?

    Is the secret ballot a myth?

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  40. Romney Database ORCA: Whale of FAIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Breitbart.com has a story about the Romney Get Out The Vote (GOTV) database that had massive election day failures and did not get out the vote but isolated and rendered ineffective 10s of thousands of election day volunteers. So they were suppressing their own vote.
      HAW HAW.

  41. Reddit *is* good for something... by Randym · · Score: 1
    In August, Obama decided to answer questions on the social news website Reddit, which many of the President’s senior aides did not know about. “Why did we put Barack Obama on Reddit?” an official asked rhetorically. “Because a whole bunch of our turnout targets were on Reddit.”

    And then they didn't say who they were ! (BTW, Obama actually posts as PresidentObama. He's been a redditor for 2 months and has 3837 link karma and 20,968 comment karma!!! 10 posts 2 months ago to IAmA and 2 posts to politics 4 days ago.)

    --
    DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.