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What To Do After You Fire a Bad Sysadmin Or Developer

Esther Schindler writes "The job of dealing with an under-performing employee doesn't end when the culprit is shown the door. Everyone focuses on security tasks, after you fire the idiot, such as changing passwords, but that's just one part of the To Do list. More important, in the long run, is the cleanup job that needs to be done after you fire the turkey, looking for the hidden messes and security flaws the ex-employee may have left behind. Otherwise, you'll still be cleaning up the problems six months later."

245 comments

  1. Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The answer has been widely discussed here: http://serverfault.com/questions/171893/how-do-you-search-for-backdoors-from-the-previous-it-person

    1. Re:Here be Dragons by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The actions necessary depends on what you mean with "underperforming". If that person didn't do much more than sitting in a corner playing games I would say that there's not much to do, but if it was a person taking shortcuts you need to figure out all traces from that person and remove them one by one. And you can't be sure if that was a skilled person.

      If it's bad enough you should treat it as a bad virus outbreak and build a completely new system in parallel with the old and move the business information to that system and cut off the damaged system from the net. It's a dirty and tedious job but someone needs to do it.

      This also highlights the need of segmenting the network into different segments, one for sales, another for HR, a third for management and then one or more for the operations so that if one segment is compromised you don't run the risk of having everything exposed. Of course - this goes against the process of using virtualized servers since you can't do physical segmentation on a virtual machine.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If it's bad enough you should treat it as a bad virus outbreak and build a completely new system in parallel with the old and move the business information to that system and cut off the damaged system from the net. It's a dirty and tedious job but someone needs to do it.

      5 years ago I would not have believed you. That's ludicrous and there is no way a system no matter how touched by an incompetent is so bad it needs to be completely replaced (losing all maturity and buy in etc).

      And then it happened. In the form of a manpower resource management tool designed for internal use. Won't go too detailed, but at the worst end of it, after burning the entire budget with the thing only partially finished it was rolled into production. And very soon after it was discovered that for a relatively important part the idiot was actually going in and changing fields in the database himself every day to give the appearance that the thing worked.

      The guy who was tasked with fixing it basically came back and said "impossible" .. manager didn't doubt it, thing was scrapped, and a quick and dirty one was built on a shoestring budget to replace it that ended up doing far more than the partially "finished" one that had cost much much more.

    3. Re:Here be Dragons by starfishsystems · · Score: 2

      this goes against the process of using virtualized servers since you can't do physical segmentation on a virtual machine

      Ah, but you can. Modern hypervisors (and this includes lightweight Linux paravirtualization containers such as OpenVZ) are able to provide a virtual network for the nodes running under it. Often they have fairly limited capabilities, but anything worthy of the name will support basic VLANs. That's to meet exactly your segmentation requirement.

      --
      Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
    4. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once inherited a PHP system where each site was hard coded with if-thens. So when there was a new site (which was often) you had to change the code... That wasn't the only thing... Stuff like creating unique random numbers that sometimes weren't unique and the idiot had to manually make sure they were.

      I'm a crap coder, but I don't write dailywtf material everyday...

    5. Re:Here be Dragons by starfishsystems · · Score: 1

      Um, thanks for sharing your ignorance.

      --
      Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
    6. Re:Here be Dragons by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      Easiest answer:
      Run an audit.
      That is what I do. I run an audit on all access methods and devices and change the Pwd while I am at it.

    7. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would also advise, informing your legal team of the decision. You could also hire a security firm (one with a good reputation) to scan your network for security flaws. If you take enough measures to protect your customers data then even if he does have a backdoor it won't come back to hunt you. Additionally consider instead of having a single admin consider having an admin team that watches each others actions, that way you are less likely to have a single admin ruin everything for you.

    8. Re:Here be Dragons by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Easiest answer: Run an audit. That is what I do. I run an audit on all access methods and devices and change the Pwd while I am at it.

      The easiest answer, pray.

      A bad (as in lazy, surly, abusive) sysadmin who left traps will leave them in places not detectable by an audit.

      I have yet to go to a business as a sysadmin where they didn't use default passwords (P@ss1234, now how many businesses use that gem) which are on just about every device or local admin account. The smartest businesses had a different default password for each type of device/account but you end up with password reuse across a pattern of devices and accounts. The thing is, almost no business will go around and change this on every single device/server when someone who knows the password leaves.

      I left my last position on less than amicable terms (basically they were setting me up to get sacked by giving me impossible tasks, so I chose to leave). The CEO had no clue, but my boss understood I knew the public IP addresses, domain admin/root passwords and router passwords of our 5 biggest clients off by heart. I could see the fear in his eyes when I left (it was senior managements decision to sack me, they wanted to downsize without having to pay anyone out). Of course I'd never actually do anything harmful to that business (they were doing that well enough on their own) but anyone who employs a sysadmin knows that you need to hire trustworthy people and treat them well or it will turn around to bite you in the arse.

      Hiring good people and not pissing them off is pretty much the only defence.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:Here be Dragons by sgunhouse · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's fine for the "or developer" part.

      There was a village near here who fired their IT person. She tried to hold the system hostage after they fired her, which obviously didn't go too well for either her or the village council - I forget all the details as it's been a couple of years ago now but it was all over the news at the time. Talk about your nightmare scenaios ...

      Z00L00K above is right in general terms - in effect you have a virus or worm where someone has total control of your system. In a worst case, back up the essential data if you can, then do a system rebuild and import you data. No other way to be sure. And of course, make sure they aren't selling your data to your competitor or the Russians or whoever.

    10. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, he was complaining about phyisically segmenting the virtual machines that exist on a single physical machine. Of course, that's fundementally impossible, since these virtual machines share the same computing resoruce. His complaint may be a ridiculous complaint, but nevertheless.

    11. Re:Here be Dragons by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wow, that's really an useful and elaborative answer. After reading it, one really has a clue about why hypervisor VLANs won't work.
      </sarcasm>

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    12. Re:Here be Dragons by symbolset · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Schooling you is not my job. People pay good money for that service, or they learn their lessons the long, slow, expensive hard way like the rest of us did.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    13. Re:Here be Dragons by the_B0fh · · Score: 0

      The koolaid sure tastes good today, doesn't it?

    14. Re:Here be Dragons by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Which means that you run it on one single physical server and if you have an admin that's going bad that has access to that server you are really into the crapper.

      Same thing if the hosting server itself gets compromised.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    15. Re:Here be Dragons by Dwonis · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing that you're not a FOSS developer.

    16. Re:Here be Dragons by Alex+Belits · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You forgot about hypervisor exploits.
      If you must use hardware separation, you ***MUST*** ***USE*** ***HARDWARE*** ***SEPARATION***.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    17. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Similar story here - my company was called in to fix the mess when a client fired their internal VB developer. Guy had been working for tham for two years; first year he built an internal admin system for managing their advertising inventory, while for most of the second he'd been attempting to redesign it to allow the advertisers direct acres to book their own ads. The damned thing was so shoddy we're basically rebuilding from scratch. Every one of around 200 asp pages had at least one sql injection flaw, including the login page (password '" or 1=1' let anyone in...). Several publicly accessible pages seemed to exist only for the purposes of hopelessly corrupting the database. The system needed manual maintenance three times a week to prevent an unindexed table of advert impressions served from growing so large that the site's home page timed out during the log in process (the page was O(n^2) on the number of entries). Large numbers of pages on the site consisted of nearly-but-not-quite identical cut and pastes of standard code with filenames and remote urls changed. Among other issues.

        Our choice was fix it over about 6 months, and never be entirely confident we'd hit all the problems, or replace it in about 3. The client having approved replacement, wer're just about to start work on it.

    18. Re:Here be Dragons by some+old+guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mod up.

      "If it can be accessed, it is vulnerable." -Geezer's First Law of System Security.

      --
      Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
    19. Re:Here be Dragons by turbidostato · · Score: 3, Informative

      "A bad (as in lazy, surly, abusive) sysadmin who left traps will leave them in places not detectable by an audit."

      The point of an audit is not to uncover and clean all the traps but to gain legal security.

    20. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah, once again HR proves itself incapable of hiring a good system administrator / employee and instead either went with the cheapest person available or one with lots of certifications and little experience. I'd fire the HR department as well after showing the bad employee to the door.

    21. Re:Here be Dragons by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.

      Commenting on your signature: Calling someone a "hater" means that you detest their attitude, you believe that it is a sign of irrational hatred, and that their arguments are not worth rebutting.

    22. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      VLANS are physically separated? I learn something new on Slashdot every day ..

      idiot. Try to find what the V in VLAN stands for.

    23. Re:Here be Dragons by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2

      At the last job I quit (an MSP), I gave my boss a bound book with all passwords. It was a fire list: these are the things you need to change when I leave to adhere to best security practices. I had him sign for receipt. I also gave the same book to the client who was endeared to me and was not fond of how I'd been treated by my boss. :D Rumor has it they spent roughly two months doing basic things like trying to figure out how to get access to systems to change the root and/or service passwords...

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    24. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Only the DEV got burned?
      - Either the manager cut corners & took risks by not hiring a tester.
      - Or he did hire a tester which didn't do his job properly.
      A decent tester would have spotted these shenigans long before launch, this probably would have saved you from burning the whole budget on an incompetent dev.

    25. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VLANS are physically separated? I learn something new on Slashdot every day ..

      idiot. Try to find what the V in VLAN stands for.

      I'm not sure where you came up with the idea we were talking about VLAN's, he was talking about virtual machines. But yes, you can keep VLAN's physically separated for security purposes, you just need additional physical connections. There are uses for virtualization which do not necessarily involve sharing hardware.

    26. Re:Here be Dragons by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wow, it's like this t-shirt in real life. I have also replaced somebody with a very small shell-script, I felt like I should have gotten an award or something.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    27. Re:Here be Dragons by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just look at this report: Cross-VM Side Channels and Their Use to Extract Private Keys

      Pretty clear that the virtualized server aren't as safe as physically separated servers.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    28. Re:Here be Dragons by helix2301 · · Score: 2

      Slashdot had an article about this back in August of 2010 (Shows you how much of a die hard Slashdoter I am I quote old articles all the time). http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/08/24/2014256/searching-for-backdoors-from-rogue-it-staff Read this and it will answer some to most of your question.

    29. Re:Here be Dragons by dave420 · · Score: 1

      That is assuming you know all the available access methods...

    30. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How exactly is your awesome link you have shared negate Alex's assertion that virtualization magically prevents exploits when running on the same box?

    31. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about posting the refactored code to github?

    32. Re:Here be Dragons by xaxa · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine -- a maths graduate -- did something similar at his first job. He worked for a bank, and told them he wouldn't give them the source code he'd written as it was "his".

      They sacked him, and said they wouldn't sue / press charges if he signed up and completed a 1-year Masters course in computer science, which he did (paid for by himself). I think he got the good deal as his father worked at the same bank.

    33. Re:Here be Dragons by kelemvor4 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Only the DEV got burned? - Either the manager cut corners & took risks by not hiring a tester. - Or he did hire a tester which didn't do his job properly. A decent tester would have spotted these shenigans long before launch, this probably would have saved you from burning the whole budget on an incompetent dev.

      LOL. That would defeat the purpose of having a scapegoat in the first place!

    34. Re:Here be Dragons by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To be fair, he was complaining about phyisically segmenting the virtual machines that exist on a single physical machine. Of course, that's fundementally impossible, since these virtual machines share the same computing resoruce. His complaint may be a ridiculous complaint, but nevertheless.

      Not so ridiculous I think. There was an article here on Slashdot a couple of days ago about the possibility to spy from one virtual machine onto another one running on the same virtual host by observing the cache line eviction pattern. All VM's share a same cache, and by observing which cache lines gets thrown out (presumably due to the usage by the other VM's), it is possible to infere what goes on in these other VMs.

    35. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What was the script?

    36. Re:Here be Dragons by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      But yes, you can keep VLAN's physically separated for security purposes, you just need additional physical connections.

      But within the switch they would still come together, so you'd still have a potential problem if you don't trust that your switch is doing what it is supposed to do.

      And if you separate the switched as well, you no longer have VLAN's, but just different, physically separated LANs (d'oh...)

    37. Re:Here be Dragons by BVis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Why are you requesting three roles here? I thought you just needed a computer guy".
      "Having a team adds flexibility and redundancy, for example, if one gets hit by a bus or goes on vacation, the others can cover."
      "How likely is he/she to be hit by a bus? And we'll just not let them go on vacation if that's what it takes."
      "I doubt we'll be able to hire someone qualified if we don't allow them vacation time."
      "Oh, we'll give them vacation time, we just won't let them take it. Or, if we have to, we'll make them carry their laptop while they're away."
      "Then that's not vacation, is it?"
      "Quit being such a whiner. Oh, and the salary you asked for? Find someone for 60% of that. Revenues are down."
      "Didn't the CEO just get a huge bonus?"
      "What does that have to do with anything?"

      TL;DR: Companies don't make hiring decisions based on what makes sense, they make them based on how little they can spend.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    38. Re:Here be Dragons by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      lol "security software"

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    39. Re:Here be Dragons by murder_face · · Score: 1

      I worked for a bank that had a relatively decent password policy for its employees: Every week employees were forced to change their randomly generated password. The password policy for their infrastructure was HORRENDOUS though. They used a program called ITI Director for their nightly backups. Password to login to Director=director. Rinse and repeat for everything else

    40. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you sir do not understand the complexities involved in the attack you cite. Here is a summary of the complexities involved.

      http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2012/10/attack-of-week-cross-vm-timing-attacks.html

        good luck implementing that in the real world.

    41. Re:Here be Dragons by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      Somebody was working overtime to go on-site with a client every weekend and manually update static HTML pages. I replaced them with a page that automatically updated whenever new content was available.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    42. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't tell me. I already know: MS-Access as the backend.

    43. Re:Here be Dragons by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I believe he was covering the companies pathetic ass. Due dillegance etc has little to do with perfection. When you know that perfection will not happen you get an outside professional to sign off on your best effort. Same reason accounting firms exist. It's not like bean counting is a complicated skill.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    44. Re:Here be Dragons by gander666 · · Score: 1

      Don't know where you work, but in my experience, HR doesn't hire people. The hiring manager files the req, and guides the requirements for the role. HR goes and finds candidate, but they don't select the person, it is the hiring manager's responsibility to hire a hero (or goof up and hire a bozo). HR just pre-screens based on what they are told.

      Yes, that means that the hiring manager usually asks for certs or degrees, and HR/Recruitment try to bring in candidates.

      Of course, my experience is that either they bring in bad candidates, or that your requirements (certs/degree/salary range) filters the input list to 0.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    45. Re:Here be Dragons by dmullenaux · · Score: 1

      I have yet to go to a business as a sysadmin where they didn't use default passwords (P@ss1234, now how many businesses use that gem) which are on just about every device or local admin account.

      Never used that one, we use p@ssw0rd!

    46. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you gave a customer the passwords to his provider?

      No less, a customer who was bias... Sounds like conspiracy.

    47. Re:Here be Dragons by IICV · · Score: 2

      "Quit being such a whiner. Oh, and the salary you asked for? Find someone for 60% of that. Revenues are down."
      "Didn't the CEO just get a huge bonus?"
      "Yes, because he cut personnel costs by 60%"

      More true to life :(

    48. Re:Here be Dragons by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      That's a really good starting point. Some preemptive action can prevent a lot of the most time consuming steps there. Creating a clear barrier between the intranet and extranet by keeping most ports open as internal only is a good step. Using tools that monitor the IPs of where users log in from (some time tracking systems do this) and setting up alerts for variances (ex. why is Joe from CO logging in from China). Google has started doing this recently. Users shouldn't be sharing or giving out passwords, there's not a whole lot you can do here if they besides give needs only access to them and important access only to people competent enough to understand the consequences of password sharing. Application level logging is great too, login audits & last mod by should be a part of every database / application relationship in the perfect world. Past that, right clicking disable in AD should take care of most of the problem. Oh, almost forgot, giving applications individualized logins is a great practice for this reason also: Joe wrote app A which logins in as AppAUser@domain.com, so you change that user's login in AD & the code, and you avoid the whole I don't know which app is using which account mess. Some places will never be able to change their admin passwords as a result of not following this practice, without downtime.

    49. Re:Here be Dragons by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      This question had already been slashdotted when someone else asked the exact same question here:
      http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/08/24/2014256/Searching-For-Backdoors-From-Rogue-IT-Staff

    50. Re:Here be Dragons by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 1

      Employees who believe their sole responsibility is ass-covering are a boat anchor tied around the neck of any enterprise.

      Then you should be shown the door as well. Corporate lawyers would tend to think you're a moron.

    51. Re:Here be Dragons by abirdman · · Score: 1

      I believe the happy CEO cut personnel costs by 40%, unless there is some arithmetic I'm missing here (which often happens with CEO fiscal shenanigans).

      --
      Everything I've ever learned the hard way was based on a statistically invalid sample.
    52. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      busy dealing with this right now... was brought in to see a system build by 6 (yes read it! 6) different teams, and 3 different managers all in the space of 3 years.
      Took one look at the code base turned white,
      heart failure when I saw the database
      and next day my recommendation was approved after a quick demo of how easy it was to open up all data including financials.

      Currently winding down version 1 with last systems functionality and Ver2 due to start to get the system to where it needs to go.... loads of fun

      Spaghetti code
      no documentation
      direct hardwired connections to the db
      direct sa (blank password) connections over the web
      the list goes on.......

    53. Re:Here be Dragons by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You forgot to factor in the cost savings of unfilled positions. Because business is never lost because staff is doing 3 jobs and misses opportunity knocking very softly.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    54. Re:Here be Dragons by garaged · · Score: 1

      OpenVZ isa container virtualization, not paravirtualization.

      And containers are even less isolated than hardware or paravirtualization.

      --
      I'm positive, don't belive me look at my karma
    55. Re:Here be Dragons by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Schooling you is not my job. People pay good money for that service, or they learn their lessons the long, slow, expensive hard way like the rest of us did.

      If you don't want to give people information (i.e. make them learn something), then why are you posting at all?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    56. Re:Here be Dragons by steviesteveo12 · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. There're plenty of developers in the FOSS community who won't chew your food for you either.

    57. Re:Here be Dragons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, it's like this t-shirt in real life. I have also replaced somebody with a very small shell-script, I felt like I should have gotten an award or something.

      I've replaced numerous people with small (usually...sometimes they are a bit larger) shell scripts over the years.
      The only awards I've gotten for that were more work assignments!

  2. Get ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    a long rope and hang yourself! Seriously you should've put a lot more thought into this as sysadmins mostly hold the keys to your kingdom!

    oh, first post btw :-p

  3. No easy answers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is one of those things that there are no easy answers for. The Right Answer(tm) is to have good policies, compartmentalization of duties, and mandatory time off (to allow for auditing) so that problem scenarios can be avoided before the fact.

  4. Slowly by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    It takes time. You have to audit everything. He could have installed a keylogger on the CEO's machine, for all you know. Or a hidden modem line on a server. If you really expect sabotage, you have to inspect everything, and that takes time, or lots of money.

    1. Re:Slowly by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          Don't forget back doors, layoff scripts, and manual tasks that were never documented.

            Not every security hole is as obvious as a modem sitting on a rack. But some are. I found one at the last place I worked. Literally a modem sitting on top of a server, in a corner of the server room. No one knew the purpose behind it. I notified the necessary parties (dep't heads), and then unplugged it mid-day Monday. I expected complaints fairly soon after. There were none. Somehow, it had been there for quite a while (judging by the dust). Somehow no one noticed that they were paying for an extra phone line for years.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    2. Re:Slowly by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hope you are joking. "Under-performing" doesn't mean "idiot" or "turkey" or imply incompetence or malfeasance as TFS would have us believe. To the contrary. someone capable of doing things requiring the type of audit you suggest would probably not be an under-performing employee.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    3. Re:Slowly by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      Modem lines are so yesterday - an access point put away somewhere configured to not advertise it's name would be a great hole.

      Don't forget that some printers can communicate over wireless connection too and they can be a great attack vector. Add to it that it's easy to set up a VPN tunnel. And if it's a tunnel over HTTPS it's not easy to detect - especially if the traffic is low.

      So it will be a pain in the butt if you want to stay safe. Lock each client to receive IP address over DHCP depending on MAC address. That way every client will get a first level of authorization. Change the IP address series if a breach occurs or is suspected - that will cause rouge access points to lose connection. Set the printers on a separate network segment so if they are compromised the only stuff that can be accessed is what's going to be the stuff that's printed and then - printers doesn't need to access the internet outside the site anyway, which makes it harder to utilize a compromised printer.

      Using internet proxies are useful too - you can add filters in the proxy server to shut out traffic to unwanted sites. Whitelisting, greylisting and blacklisting should be the way - some sites can be whitelisted like news sites, greylisting for sites like Facebook and blacklisting of porn sites.

      Using Wireshark to look for unusual traffic may work, but it's very hard on the networks today to decide if traffic is really unusual or if it's just some application that runs some protocol of it's own. Often printers runs many protocols at once by default, like IP, IPX and AppleTalk.

      The primary thing that you need to consider - how much time will it take to inspect and correct compared to a clean re-install. It may be cheaper and faster to do a clean re-install.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I expected complaints fairly soon after. There were none. Somehow, it had been there for quite a while (judging by the dust). Somehow no one noticed that they were paying for an extra phone line for years.

      You're going to hear a LOT of complaints next time that datacenter becomes isolated and they discover you just unplugged the emergency out-of-band connection.

    5. Re:Slowly by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          Nope, it wasn't really a problem. I was in charge of IT. It was there when I started with the company. No one knew the purpose, the purpose of the server it was attached to, nor even the phone number. If it was an OOB access, there was no current employee who knew how to access it.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    6. Re:Slowly by chispito · · Score: 1

      Modem lines are so yesterday - an access point put away somewhere configured to not advertise it's name would be a great hole.

      What, you're saying there is no such thing as a nefarious hipster sysop?

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  5. Blame them! by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After all, everything wrong with the place is the fault of the last person to leave!

    --
    ... wait, what?
    1. Re:Blame them! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      its been my experience that people are generally pretty good, some better than others, but I rarely run into an evil person.

      companies, otoh, ...

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Blame them! by aekafan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Odd. My experience has mostly been the opposite. Also, companies are made up of people, how can they be evil, if the people in them are not?

    3. Re:Blame them! by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      I envy your experience, I've worked with some truly evil people.

      --
      ... wait, what?
    4. Re:Blame them! by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      There is no lack of research on how large groups of normally decent people can behave in a highly immoral fashion. Peer pressure and dominance hierarchies are powerful forces for coercion, not to mention more mundane explanations like greed.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:Blame them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you take a bunch of generally non evil people to make an evil structure? You make a specific structure designed to insulate people from the effects of their decisions, then create a bunch of layers so that people make decisions like shooting a bunch of puppies one step at a time.

    6. Re:Blame them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, companies are made up of people, how can they be evil, if the people in them are not?

      It is very simple, actually. All that is needed for evil to reign is to train people that ignoring Not My Problem under any circumstances is A Good Thing.

    7. Re:Blame them! by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

      Evil naturally rises to the top of an organization because it lusts for power and will do anything to get it.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    8. Re:Blame them! by turbidostato · · Score: 2

      "companies are made up of people, how can they be evil, if the people in them are not?"

      A company is a complex system with emergent properties.

      I'd say, anyway, that for true evil to arise there must be evil people somewhere in the organization. In order to be just underperforming or mildly evilesque, you just need your typical corporate organization and it will arise by itself out of goals misalignment and partial information.

    9. Re:Blame them! by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      More often than not, the evil a company perpetrates against employees and customers is directly relational to the number of business school graduates who hold the reigns of power. If they're Californians by schooling, that's an exponential curve.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    10. Re:Blame them! by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There are no such thing as objectively good, there is always subjectivity and then that is good or bad depends on which side are you. So from outside the company could do evil, arbitrary things while people do reasonable, obligatory, or good things from their own point of view.

    11. Re:Blame them! by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Grow up.

    12. Re:Blame them! by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 2
      Reminds me of a joke one of my better past bosses used to tell:

      A manager is going over some loose ends with his replacement as he is gathering his remaining belongings from his office. As he leaves, he hands the new manager 3 envelopes and says "Only use these when absolutely necessary. Use them wisely in times of crisis.". And with that, the former manager leaves the premises.

      Several months go by, and eventually there is an issue. A long term project was several weeks overdue and the customers are livid. Senior management was demanding answers and the new manager was panicked. In desperation, he hurries back to his office, closes the door, and opens one of the envelopes. It contains a note that says "Say that you haven't been with the team long enough to have your arms fully wrapped around all the details". So, the manager reports to the next meeting of the Department Heads, and proceeds to tell everyone just that. He assures them that he'll continue to do his best to figure out what's going on and get everything back on track. This pleases the senior managers, and the crisis passes.

      About 6 months later, it becomes clear that the company is badly over budget for the year and at the current financial state, would be forced to begin layoffs before the end of the year. Again, the manager finds himself overwhelmed and has no idea how to fix things. Again, he closes himself off in his office, and opens the second envelope. It contains a note that says, "Blame the guy before you.". With renewed confidence, the manager calls a company meeting and proceeds to throw his predecessor under the bus for the current financial crisis. Assuring everyone that he will look at all possible cost containment measures and resolve the problems, he lives to see another day.

      Just over a year since this manager has been with the company, things are at the breaking point. Employees have unionized and have threatened a strike in response to being overworked and having their benefit packages raided. The manager feels completely cornered and has no foreseeable way out of his predicament. Wracked with anxiety, the manager again retreats to his office, and opens the third envelope. Inside it is a note that says:

      "Make three envelopes."

    13. Re:Blame them! by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 1

      I've only worked for one. Ego maniac entrepreneur. I had part ownership in a company that was sold to a new buyer. I was bought out and made happy, and was still interested in staying on with the company. The new owner wanted to rewrite the ecommerce platform (mostly at my suggestion). He talked to some consultants who said they could do it in 3 months. I let him know that simply would not happen - too much to do, especially considering they never spoke with me to see what all would need to be done. He slowly got rid of all the legacy staff, including me, within the next few months as the consultants ran the bill up from the estimated $100k to over $400k. Four years later, I checked in - yep, still on the old platform. Word has it that that their IT staff is now 6 people, up from the 1 that managed the system before.

      What made him evil? He went out of town on vacation and sent other employees to our office to shut us down. Coward. I was one week out from having knee surgery too.

  6. idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Real mature there guy... With an attitude like that. You'd better have alot of backup plans in place. It sounds like you are a shit place to work for.

    Do us ALL a favor. Name your company. So we can avoid it.

    1. Re:idiot? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That was my immediate impression as well. When I hear/see the phrase "fire the idiot", my first thought is "was this guy the problem, or is it the workplace?"

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As the same time, I've worked with some people who it took way too long to get rid of.

      I generally believe anyone in the right role and with the right management/team can be useful. But every once in a while you get someone who is just useless. Most of the time it is more an attitude thing than a capabilities thing, however there was one very notable exception of someone who was a nice guy, really tried, but basically just couldn't do the job. He ended up getting rotated around because no one really wanted to get rid of the guy.. but you didn't want him contributing code to your project. Eventually the inevitable came and it really sucked..

    3. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Seems to me the workplace is the problem. The organization should not be putting someone that is incompetent and malicious in charge of important systems. If a hospital allows someone to do brain surgery on people before figuring out whether they really can do brain surgery or not then the hospital is the main problem. Worse if the hospital keeps allowing that person to do brain surgery when he can't.

      And as a CEO said, the CEO is at least partly responsible for almost everything including hiring the idiots (whether by hiring the people who hired the idiots or directly, or by not firing the idiots who hire idiots). I know other bosses who say similar things.

    4. Re:idiot? by cloudmaster · · Score: 2

      I'm still trying to figure out how an "idiot" and "turkey" was retained for long enough to have any significant impact. Usually an "idiot" becomes pretty obvious as soon as he tries to do anything complicated enough to justify asking this question.

    5. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As the same time, I've worked with some people who it took way too long to get rid of.

      Ah, haven't we all.
      I've been in the unenviable position of having to cover for several 'idiots' higher up the sysadmin foodchain who should have been 'let go', I got so pissed off with the nonsense (e.g. why the fuck was someone who hadn't a clue about Linux managing a whole bunch of Linux servers on paper, when I was doing it on a daily basis as an adjunct to the servers I was looking after) and left myself eventually for pastures new..and left them to deal with it. No doubt I'm now the idiot (à la OPs comment) as far as that lot are concerned (and, no doubt so was my replacement who only stuck it out for about 10 months). .

      Whilst I'm at it, here's another true story. One job I had, I set up a Hard disk based backup server, as a backup to our main backup server (a networked tape library) for one of our Linux servers. Everyone was informed, location of server and UPS in one of the comms rooms flagged on network maps (and, it had a big fucking label on the front along the lines of 'Secondary Backup Server - Don't touch'.)
      Six months or so after I leave that job, get a phone call, the third hand HDs on the Linux server failed (they were warned in writingthat fitting these disks wasn't a good idea, but hey, that's another story), the tape backups didn't have all the data, so where was the backup server I set up?. I name the comms room, the server name/IP number, there was a couple of minutes silence at the other end of the phone, 'oh, the network manager removed that machine from the network three months ago.'
      So again, I'm probably OP's 'idiot' (and the writer of the article pointed to's 'turkey') for that, and probably got the blame for the disks failing.

      Ex employees are such wonderfully useful scapegoats to cover up the inadequacies of those still employed.

      Finally, OP and the writer of the article pointed to are both idiots and boors.

    6. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many companies seem to do fine while having incompetent and malicious upper management. Why should the lower echelons be any different?

    7. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the same time, I've worked with some people who it took way too long to get rid of.

      Ah, haven't we all. [bris]

      I've been working with this one guy every day for my entire career...

      Ex employees are such wonderfully useful scapegoats to cover up the inadequacies of those still employed.

      That's what I was thinking. Any time, anyone leaves, fired, downsized, promoted, transferred, left on their own two feet, you usually find stuff like this. I've seen 'incompetent' developers and engineers that leave behind stuff that just mostly works and 'highly competent' people that leave vast amounts of eldritch horror behind for the sad person who replaces them to deal with.

    8. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on the workplace. I'm currently fixing problems caused by an idiot who for 2 years was the company's only developer and nobody else had any IT experience. Then they hired a new manager who'd previously worked in IT and he fired the guy within a few weeks.

      Other times half the company knows what an idiot the guy is, but he's a relative/favourite of the owner and is therefore untouchable. At least until he really screws up.

    9. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Name yourself, says Anonymous Coward

    10. Re:idiot? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      " I'm currently fixing problems caused by an idiot who for 2 years was the company's only developer"

      And the developer was the idiot, you say?

      The idiot is obviously the manager that, not having developing experience, hires a single developer lacking the experience to discern a good hiring from a bad one. And the boss on top of that manager that allowed an unexperienced manager to deal with the IT thingie.

      "Then they hired a new manager who'd previously worked in IT and he fired the guy within a few weeks"

      See my point?

    11. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still trying to figure out how an "idiot" and "turkey" was retained for long enough to have any significant impact.

      In that case I'm assuming you never worked here...

    12. Re:idiot? by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 1

      Then they hired a new manager who'd previously worked in IT and he fired the guy within a few weeks.

      Sounds like a pretty incompetent manager to me. He should have hired a second dev, let them both work together for some time until the second dev is familiar enough with what's there and then get rid off the first dev.

    13. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      judging by the email addy of submitter, and the info from the website, it looks like the company is The BitRanch

    14. Re:idiot? by BotnetZombie · · Score: 1

      fired the guy within a few weeks.

      Maybe this new manager saw after few weeks that there wasn't really anything to justify keeping the dev around any longer?

    15. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can see all the companies she worked for here.

      http://www.linkedin.com/in/estherschindler

      https://twitter.com/estherschindler

    16. Re:idiot? by chispito · · Score: 1

      Real mature there guy... With an attitude like that. You'd better have alot of backup plans in place. It sounds like you are a shit place to work for.

      Do us ALL a favor. Name your company. So we can avoid it.

      Someone's sympathy for the people cleaning up the "mess" or his sympathy for the "abused" former employee is going to depend a lot on his employment history.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    17. Re:idiot? by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget "the turkey", coming up in the very next phrase.
      I've seen plenty sub-par employees who I called names in the past, but that usually happens in an informal environment. It might even hold true in a particular case, where you might be righteous to call someone names. But when you decide to write an article on a website about it, it's basic common sense to be objective and polite.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    18. Re:idiot? by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Not really, no. It depends on common sense.
      I've seen great people being let go while bad apples remained employed, because some had connections, whereas others did not. Of course, this is easier to achieve in a large company, but smaller ones aren't really that much different. Right now, the department I work in fired two good people for obscure reasons (and apparently scared them shitless, because they won't even bring up what happened) and kept many others who aren't half as competent. We have incompetent managers galore and competent managers got fired or demoted because they were threatening to break the delicate balance of "do nothing, go with the flow" mindset that the whole management holds high.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    19. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At my current employer (but not for much longer, hopefully), it's definitely the workplace. Our CEO exercises dictatorial control over minutiae of technical implementations he has no understanding of whatsoever - including, quite literally, database structures, keys and indexes. As a result of our database design being dictated by a middle-quality non-technical MBA, it takes a very long time to develop anything that works with the database. Being the product manager, this consistent failure to deliver on time is my fault, despite the fact that I have no actual control over the product I'm supposedly managing because of micromanagement all the way from the top.

      It's really excellent.

    20. Re:idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you, took the words right out of my mouth.

    21. Re:idiot? by steviesteveo12 · · Score: 1

      You may have read that backwards.

  7. droppings by blymn · · Score: 1

    Been there done that, tried my best to clean up but every now and then you would find another "dropping" - the reaction I had was exactly the same as when you are wandering down the street and suddenly step in a dog dropping, same sort of revulsion and disgust at the filthy mess you just blundered into and now have to clean up.

  8. Even more slowly by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Funny

    In fact, your entire corporate structure is at risk. How do you know he didn't engineer a brain virus that allows him to use the company's board members as flesh puppets?

    He might have even used telepathy to cause major investment banks to sell him all of their shares of the company for pennies on the dollar. He might already own the company. It's best to double check.

    In fact, he might be standing behind you right now, brainwashing you with lasers.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Even more slowly by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 5, Funny

      In fact, he might be standing behind you right now, brainwashing you with lasers.

      Impossible. My hat is made of the finest tin and aluminum foil on earth, and is wrapped so tightly that my very hair was crushed. No one could brain wash me (with terrestrial technology at least).

    2. Re:Even more slowly by zaft · · Score: 1

      Frickin' LASERS!

    3. Re:Even more slowly by symbolset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is not that hard to set up a service on a Windows server that provides backdoor services. If you have domain admin rights tunnelling rdp or somesuch through it is trivial. They can use outbound polling of http or dns or even ntp to violate your firewall. You can give the service rights of some other person like the cio for example. Those guys usually demand the keys to the harem. From there you can remote to any server or desktop, do literally anything. These tools are readily available and open source, and every serious enterprise IT pro should have and understand them because often your first job is locking out the last guy.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    4. Re:Even more slowly by q.kontinuum · · Score: 4, Funny

      Another victim of the tinfoil-conspiracy... :-( Or maybe you are part of the conspiracy by advocating it? Did it ever occur to you that tinfoil hats might cover you from alleged hostile brain control waves from satellites thousands of kilometers away, but otoh forms a nearly parabolic antenna to the whole communication wires and infrastructure below pedestrian lanes just a couple of meters away? And coincidentally only relevant people will be affected, since only they are likely to wear - wait a minute, there is someone knocking at my door, I will write more later.

      --
      Trolling is a art!
    5. Re:Even more slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Have you checked for electrodes in the inside recently? The new tinfoil manufactured in Taiwan comes with built in RFID and WIFI.

    6. Re:Even more slowly by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      Or think of a small hardware device attached somewhere to the network (can be hidden anywhere where you can get LAN and power) which only listens (so it cannot be detected by the stuff it sends or by taking up an IP) and sends interesting things over the mobile phone network. Probably the network will have lots of interesting unencrypted information (after all, it's internal and cable, so why have encryption overhead, right?)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:Even more slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot how he can use mind-control. This is only what he wants you to think!

    8. Re:Even more slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's even easier than you think.
      These things can already be bought off the shelf.
      2 lan ports acting as pass-through and getting power from PoE.
      I have seen some that are made to look like ferrite coils and aren't much bigger.
      I have also seen some looking like a fake UPS, with a "lightning-surge protection" pass-through for the LAN.

      Just plug one in between a voip phone or access-point and the PoE switch.
      Especially the AP in the board-room is nice as it usually has it wiring hidden in the ceiling and, even with a fully switched LAN, you get all the traffic of the important people.

      The only way to find one is by visual inspection of the cabling or by closely monitoring the PoE power-consumption at switch level.
      The latter is almost impossible on AP's because they have wildly varying power-requirements depending on load and radio-power-output. For voip-phone the typical power-draw is subject to far less variation so for these you might be able to spot weird power-consumption in the PoE switch.
      (Another reason why passive power-injectors are bad. You can't monitor them.)

    9. Re:Even more slowly by shentino · · Score: 1

      If the foil came in a box that said "Made in China" I'd still worry if I were you.

    10. Re:Even more slowly by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      That's why I wear tinfoil underwear.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  9. maybe he isn't such an idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hmm, maybe he wasn't such an idiot.
    I saw people fired after they asked for more money. Which they could very well have deserved.

    In my opinion, based on the extensive history of watching the corporate reality, people who learned the rules of the game best survive the longest. They aren't necessarily the brightest, just learned how to play the system.

    1. Re:maybe he isn't such an idiot? by bug1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Quickly leave the island before the dinosaurs escape.

  10. First thing's first by Revotron · · Score: 1

    I'm going to take a "good people turn bad" approach to this one.

    Scan for intentional backdoors and accidental gaping, well-known flaws with a fine-tooth comb. They may not have seemed too bright on the job but even an underperformer has enough insight into operations to find a way to mess up your day.

    Perhaps pose it as a question to your better admins. "Knowing what you know, if you had to crack our system/application, how would you go about it?" Whatever their answer is, find a solution and implement it.

    1. Re:First thing's first by symbolset · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nope. When the bad guys have got root on your PC the only way to restore confidence in it is to rebuild it from a trusted image. Likewise if your network admin has gone untrusted on your infrastructure you burn it down and build it new again. Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

      Frankly that's not near enough to stop a real determined jerk with skills, but thankfully we are rare. Don't hire us in the first place if you can avoid it.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  11. After?! by Culture20 · · Score: 2

    Changing passwords after? Change them while they're in HR's office or just before.

    1. Re:After?! by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      It's never that simple. Backdoors are so easy to install, and I've personally seen automated scripts hidden in standard features that created a backdoor several weeks post-firing. That way the changed password was worthless, and even the search for backdoors in the days following the firing was futile. So changing passwords and a thorough search for backdoors was a waste of time.

      Bottom line: You can't be sure when it comes to admins. Either part on amicable terms or reinstall everything - or chance it...

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    2. Re:After?! by characterZer0 · · Score: 1

      You cannot even wait that long. A disgruntled employee may already be working for a competitor or trying to sabatoge the company long before he quits. Always be in security audit mode.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
  12. Well, with a boss like you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...it's hard to imagine the relationship went sour,

    "...after you fire the idiot, such as changing passwords, but that's just one part of the To Do list. More important, in the long run, is the cleanup job that needs to be done after you fire the turkey,.. "

  13. Culprit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Culprit"? What? This means that the bad developer has no process to back him up (testing etc.). Or are every bad developer handled by "you #" created a bug! you are fired!"

  14. Reassess Your Hiring Practices by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You hired this employee. Chances are you started off with a relationship of mis-trust:
      - You did a criminal check on the hire
      - You did a drug check.
      - You did a credit check.
      - You did personality test.
      - You used Shockley style brain-teasers to see if they could do things other than what their jobs entail because you don't know how to measure skill, intelligence, or talent.
      - You interviewed in a style of hazing akin to a gang-bang. .. And you still were too stupid to figure out whether or not you had someone who could do the job right.

    Sorry, but the tone of the summary makes you look like an asshole, and you deserve whatever you get. This is your wake-up call.

    1. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yep. The submission raises more questions about the submitter than the person who just left for me. People who rate others as incompetent with no redeeming features are often incompetent themselves in my experience. The level of paranoia in the submission is also remarkable, but I guess all this checking and for 'hidden messes and security flaws' might be a good excuse for not doing anything useful for the business. Any problems for the next few months can just be blamed on the recent turkey without introspection as to how they might have ended up with this employee or how they might have created such a mess with no-one esle knowing.

      If you have decent processes in place, hidden messes and security flaws would not be possible without extreme malice and intelligence (not possible for an 'idiot' and a 'turkey'), if you don't and cannot change the processes, leave, as you should recognise the workplace is dysfunctional (and that starts right at the top of the department and goes all the way down).

    2. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The submitter, Esther Schindler, is the editor of HP's IO blog. I don't think this is about her personal experiences.

    3. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by SpzToid · · Score: 2

      Good points. May I add, had they not spent all that money on personality tests and whatnot, but instead compensated the employees for, I dunno, more than they could probably earn elsewhere and just generally showed them respect, maybe things would start working out in the company's favor?

      Slavery is so over. We all need to work and pay our bills due. We're all like little companies trying to do the capitalist-thang, by selling our own time, effort, and skills. This is how we compete, to earn a living.

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
    4. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by Xacid · · Score: 1

      Google, is that you?

    5. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by lagerbottom · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I suspect systemic issues in the organization that at the very least caused a bad practioner to be hired in the first place, and more likely the submitter is a dick that fired someone that didn't put up with nonsense.

      --
      "He was a wise man who invented beer." - Plato
    6. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand the reasons, but I would refuse to work at a company that did a credit check. That is too much information and into my personal affairs. I realize that it "could" send a flag that a person with bad credit may have motive to steal or poor money managing. However, the detailed information included can provide an employer with information that they are not allowed to ask. Also, it is none of the companies business how I spend my money and I will not spend the time to justify my decisions and life.

    7. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 1

      A guess in the right direction. It started with (orig) Shockley, then later Google, Amazon, and Microsoft.
      It now includes many little rinky-dink start-ups, agencies, and defense contractors mimicking them because they think they're so cool.

    8. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by tqk · · Score: 1

      The submitter, Esther Schindler, is the editor of HP's IO blog. I don't think this is about her personal experiences.

      Yeah. Wikipedia lists her history with "Team OS/2" (noted computer industry writer) and Evans Data Corp. No management experience, no hands on tech. experience mentioned. It sounds like she's spent her career talking to clueless management who rely on scapegoats to deflect their own inability to vet competent staff.

      I doubt I'll be spending much time on HP's IO blog.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    9. Re:Reassess Your Hiring Practices by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      You hired this employee. Chances are you started off with a relationship of mis-trust:

        - You did a criminal check on the hire

        - You did a drug check.

        - You did a credit check.

        - You did personality test.

        - You used Shockley style brain-teasers to see if they could do things other than what their jobs entail because you don't know how to measure skill, intelligence, or talent.

        - You interviewed in a style of hazing akin to a gang-bang. .. And you still were too stupid to figure out whether or not you had someone who could do the job right.

      Sorry, but the tone of the summary makes you look like an asshole, and you deserve whatever you get. This is your wake-up call.

      Yeah, because people can NEVER change (for the worse or better).

  15. It may be too late by Floyd-ATC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article points out many obvious pitfalls on letting an underperforming employee go, but very few of these problems are unique to the particular situation of letting an obviously underperforming employee go. Most IT departments are pummeled to death with impossible deadlines and demands and management thinks that the complaints and warnings are just "the way it is with those lazy bastards". Truth is, anyone who's worked with IT knows that you have to test your backups and failover procedures, do security audits, tear down setups that are no longer used and keep documentation and automation up to date. BUT first we have to finish this project that was dreamed up by the top level management with absolutely no understanding of the technical hurdles involved. And it needs to be finished yesterday. If you want things to be neat and tidy, you're pretty much expected to take care of it on your own time.

    --
    Time flies when you don't know what you're doing
  16. If your department was properly managed... by sitarlo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...you wouldn't be asking this question.

  17. Beware of Punative Employers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Before hiring on to a company, it's important to check if it's a Pump-n-Dump shop. In these cases, a lynch-man will fire and must protect himself from backlash from his victims. Better to first check and not work for such shops, which are common. If you know going in that you're a temp, ask for a higher salary / comission and don't get emotionally attached. Plan your own escape.

  18. Try firing the CIO by dave562 · · Score: 0

    It's one thing to complain about how the guy is worthless and not getting anything to done. It's another thing when he is finally shown the door and the reality that he was worthless and not getting anything done sinks in. Those projects that he was responsible for are still there, and now 6-12 months behind schedule. True story.

  19. under-performing or metrics may them seem to be by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    under-performing or metrics may them seem to be under-performing??

    Made to do the work of 2-3 people??

    Pulling 80 hour weeks that lead to errors and under-performing over time.

    1. Re:under-performing or metrics may them seem to be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metrics are useless if they are not tuned to reflect the fact that some tickets may affect a single person and other tickets may effect an entire department, IE, hundreds of people.

      Here's a real example.

      Fixing a single problem for a single user while they watch counts as '1' in the metrics database. Assume it takes one hour, so this guy does 8 tickets a day, 30+ tickets a week on the average. GOOD desktop support person. He gets promoted to team leader. He just graduated from college a few years ago.

      Scheduling downtime for a server that is in use by three different departments, one of them Customer Support (which runs 24x365) so you can fix a bad block, or swap out, add, or subtract a component, takes six weeks of negotiations as well as special arrangements with the vendor's field engineer, who doesn't want to come in after hours or on a weekend, any more than you, the sysadmin, do, and is only doing it because he likes you.

      The repair adds value to five hundred people's lives and so should be given a metric of at least 500. Instead, it, too, gets a metric of '1'. BAD server administrator. What took you so long?

      To make matters worse, the ticket was in your queue for six weeks, and your employer has adopted a SLA of 72 hours for resolution of tickets. BAD server administrator. What took you so long?

      There are several other tickets like it in your queue. What's the matter with you? BAD server administrator. You stand out head and shoulders above everyone else in the departmental metrics.

      Your old director had a clue but he got tired of arguing with the people who forced him to adopt this specific ticket-tracking system. The director's upper management swore they'd never use it for performance evaluations - just for 'load balancing' - but they reneged upon their promise, and the director left.

      Your old manager had a clue but then a new director came in and started measuring managers by their group's collective weekly metrics. The old manager left and is now director of IT at another, better company, that Gets It.

      Your new manager is very concerned about his metrics. He's been told that you are the problem - and he is determined to fix the problem. He's looking for an excuse to terminate you - and he already has a candidate, working as a contractor, that he brought with him.

      Of course, after the company terminates you ... they will need to retain this manager, against the possibility of your filing a lawsuit against the company. During this period, it is possible they will need his services, again. So he is likely to end up being promoted - sort of an HR version of Gresham's Law.

      The moral of this story: There are always two sides.

      In my experience, the 'badness' is usually located farther up the food chain.

  20. The idiot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If this person left back doors and other traps, perhaps they were smarter than you give them credit for. Idiots are easy to clean up after.

    Next, you've got to ask yourself why a smart person would build themselves these back doors in the first place.

  21. Blog with tips by Kwyj1b0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    My first reaction (before RTFA) was that the problem might not have been the employee, but the person doing the name calling. However, the link is to a blog that lists a generic list of precautions to take. Whoever wrote that blog still has some growing up to do, but I'll give him/her the benefit of doubt and assume they were going for humor.

    In any case, I notice that HP paid for the content. Now we know why they are in such trouble.

    1. Re:Blog with tips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HP is in trouble because they have too much middle management and not enough 'smart grunts'. 'Smart grunts' are grown not hired.

      To give you a view of what the customer sees. About 2 months ago I bought a laptop from them. Nice specs blah blah blah... One of the HDs started tossing smart errors (nothing indicating from the built in software, using 3rd party smart checker). Call them up. Got a guy who knew what he was doing, within an half hour he had the right part number for me to get, and the right tests to run for the other end to declare it dead. Call back in 1 day after tests are run and get RMA number. Next day call in totally different guy (why I was not routed to the same guy?...) who followed the script. Meaning I had to go thru the whole process again (and remind him it is IN their system already). After 3rd reminder he finally pulled it up. 2 hours spent getting an RMA number.

      For something that should have taken under an hour to RMA out it took 3-4 hours. For a simple HD swap out that I did myself. 1st guy obviously had worked there awhile in texas and had a passion for it. The second guy it was a tech job and he just needed to feed his family in India. The second guy I know he is ranked on how well he hits those bullet points of RMA checkout. The first guy though was awesome to work with. The second one I could have done with web forms.

      My second exp on this laptop? I asked for a list of part numbers to upgrade the wifi device (they whitelist which ones you can put in it). I get a generic 'call this 800 number' email back. Its like you could not send me the link to a pdf that has the part list but can send me a generic thank you for your time email?

      HP this is your problem! Fix your tech support. Make them like the first guy! Computers break after your customers get them. Make it painless and fun to do. Instead of making me think of calling you a chore. Be my partner in this buy, not something to get rid of. The little things are what make your customers come back. Apple has it down. The little touches cost you on this sale. But they will help you make 2 more sales...

  22. Evil companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Companies are large organizations. Each person in the organizaton may concienciously do their job with good intent but without seeing the bigger picture (not their job) and therefore without knowing the consequences of their actions. The people at the top who, in principle, see the bigger picture, are often so far removed from the details of what is happening that they too do not know what the company is doing, except in respect of the shareholders and overall finanical performance. So, the company runs on policy and no one knows what it is doing. The company can be uber-evil when everyone in it is as nice as can be.

    The company is more/other than the sum of its parts.

    1. Re:Evil companies by PiSkyHi · · Score: 2

      > The company can be uber-evil when everyone in it is as nice as can be. This. In a kind of paradoxical way, many people know this to be true, but cannot proclaim it and some will argue against it for fear of losing their job. They all appear as nice as can be. It's endemic.

  23. Stop calling them turkeys for starters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The real dangers are often not the fired employee themselves(if you aren't stupid about it) but the employees that remain. Most people will not install any insidious backdoors just on their own initiative, but if you fire someone in a way that upsets the remaining employees, i.e. publicly embarass them, screw them out of money they earned etc., then odds are someone else IS going to try to install something to make sure that they don't befall a similar fate.

  24. Check your wallet!!! by dminor14 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hope he reads this. After a bunch of expensive equipment disappeared under his watch we fired him. The day after, standing around the coffee room I mentioned. "Too bad they fired him, he owed me 50". Three other people suddenly said, "He owed us 50 also." It turned out the same story for everyone. He borrowed 100 and returned 50. (note: some of my best friends are sysadmins so don't get me wrong)

    1. Re:Check your wallet!!! by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      Considering some IT budgets that guy is a genius!

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    2. Re:Check your wallet!!! by shentino · · Score: 1

      Why was he not prosecuted for larceny?

      You have to go after thieves with both barrels blazing and make an example out of them.

  25. Fire the Abusive PHB by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The submitter comes off as an angry, abusive tool. Maybe he should fire himself for having a hand in hiring an "idiotic turkey" to begin with.
    It's likely that the developer wasn't all that bad, but stopped giving a shit after being berated by an abusive asshole for umpteenth time.

    1. Re:Fire the Abusive PHB by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      Agreed. If the lack of oversight was so bad that the situation deteriorated to this level, then there's no way that it's just the "turkey's" fault. Someone is supposed to be watching the hen house (?). Sure, we're supposed to be professionals, but management still has to do their job, instead of mail it in and bitch when they find out they got caught with their pants down.

    2. Re:Fire the Abusive PHB by MacTO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are being a tad too gentle on management in this case. Anyone who uses that sort of language on a public website is showing a lack of professionalism that goes beyond incompetence. Professionalism in the workplace exists for a bunch of reasons, one is to maintain cordial relations between people who work together so that you don't end up with a tit-for-tat culture in the workplace.

    3. Re:Fire the Abusive PHB by Ziggitz · · Score: 1

      Agreed. In order for a developer to royally screw a project up, there has to be systemic failures in process. It means he didn't have a second pair of eyes reviewing his code and it means there was no QC resource. Combined those two are indicative of gross negligence on management's part and they got what was coming to them. If someone bluffs their way through a technical and an HR interview and lands a job, initial training and a good development process should have the guy back out the door in the span of a week or two.

      --
      There is no memory shortage. yes I have heard of XFCE. Go away.
  26. C'mon people FOCUS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    All the comments I see so far give examples of people being charged with being incompetent and maybe it was not the case.

    Lets focus on the real case, where the person being fired is in fact a major problem. Just like airliner catastrophies these seldom have one cause, the person probably has multiple major problems. For example he can't code and he is an arrogant loud mouthed prick, and he is also one of those jackasses who thinks he is very very smart but is actually never right. Perhaps he is one of the worst forms of IT prick, a nazi druid.

  27. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by King_TJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I tend to side with the critics here, asking if maybe management (including possibly the person posting the original question) are really the ones to blame?

    I've worked in I.T. for something like 25 years now, for companies big and small, though the only times I've held a title of "manager", I was really only tasked with managing outside consultants or developers. I've always preferred being relatively "hands on" with the problem solving and system/network administration tasks at-hand, vs. spending my day in meetings and typing up Excel spreadsheets trying to explain what the "team" was doing.

    Bottom line? Sure, there are a LOT of people out there trying to get hired in I.T. as support people or sysadmins who REALLY don't know what they're doing. If more companies would let the people actually DOING those jobs interview these people, they'd be able to weed out far more of the bad seeds before they even started. What I see, time and time again, is some I.T. manager who thinks he's simply "too busy" to interview some potentially really good people who apply for positions, and then he gets in a panic when it comes down the wire and he absolutely can't go without employing another person any longer. He winds up asking H.R. to find him someone good, and of course they don't know squat about I.T. so they pick through the resume submissions based on "standard issue" criteria like the college degree they claim to have, or the number of certifications they list. If he does "second interviews" with these pre-selected people, he may just be trying to pick the best of a bad bunch at that point.

    But another problem is with how the I.T. workers are managed. You can have some really top-notch people working for you, yet they're made out to be clueless, inefficient screw-ups because they're actually trying to use their brains to decide which tasks on their plates are REALLY most important to the company. Meanwhile, some upper management character is throwing fits about relatively inconsequential items his ego demands be put "front and center". If you're busy working a difficult problem affecting a whole division of the company and by doing so, you didn't get some new computer issued to somebody first thing in the morning ... guess what usually happens? It's that idiot in I.T. who caused the employee not to have that shiny new PC on their desk on time. Nobody's even aware of the work the I.T. guy was actually in the middle of doing.

    And here's the kicker.... You can say all you like about this simply being a "lack of communications" issue. "If management was simply kept informed about what I.T. was doing, everyone would be better off." But so many computer problems are of a "need to fix this yesterday!" level of importance, your good I.T. rank and file employees are going to concentrate on getting that done -- not on getting sidetracked with emailing status updates to key people. Management needs to realize that a certain level of TRUST is required here. You have to say, "I don't really know what Joe Q. has been doing the last few days, but that's ok. I trust Joe Q. because when I make an effort to find out if anyone feels Joe helped them with their issues, I get loads of positive feedback that he did." Micro-managing I.T. is almost never wise....

    1. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by Cytotoxic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I enjoyed that rant. We tried to solve the problem of IT setting priorities by forcing all of the department heads to prioritize their top 3 items each week. As an example of what we were dealing with, our CFO took a month to put together his list and came back with 5 items on his "top 3" list of projects. After we started to work on his priorities he came back with a new top priority to add to the list. So we put it ahead of #1 on the list and "Project Zero" was born.

      He wasn't alone: the president of the company had a meeting with us about a huge initiative he wanted to undertake immediately. Starting the next week he put other items that were more pressing (but not important) at the top of his list. He did this every week. Every week we warned him that we were not going to work on his other project because he was prioritizing these other things this week. Every week he said he understood and signed off on our statement of work. A year later he got pressure from the board of directors and threw us right under the bus. Called me into a huge meeting to yell at us for not getting his project done "in over a year". I calmly produced 60 pages of signed off work orders from him, proving that at every turn he decided to have us work on something else and he bore the full and sole responsibility for the project's delay. You know what? Nobody cared.... I believe the direct quote was "I'm tired of excuses. I expect results, not excuses."

      Lesson learned. Don't work for crazy people.

    2. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the only times I've held a title of "manager", I was really only tasked with managing outside consultants or developers

      That's still a serious role. Managing external contractors is a skill.

    3. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by starfishsystems · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Micro-managing I.T. is almost never wise.

      Ain't it the truth? On the other hand, there is a lot of knowledge sharing to be gained from respectful listening. If you have weekly operations or status meetings, make sure that someone from IT is at the table. Everywhere I've been where that was the practice has been a pleasant and effective workplace. When systems are running well, they're essentially invisible, and this is a highly desirable state of affairs. It's quite the opposite of neglect, but if there isn't active communication about what's going on, how do you ever expect to tell them apart? (Until it's too late, of course, and the chronically-underfunded, under-appreciated infrastructure finally falls down hard.)

      --
      Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
    4. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've had this experience more times than I want to admit. I agree with your conclusion, unfortunately it's hard to simply not work for "crazy people" everyone will throw you under the bus, and your coworkers give nothing but their (silence and worthless) support because they want their next paycheck more than their "sacred honor."

      Anything IT (support, administration, development/consulting) used to be my dream job, but the thrill is looong gone. Unfortunately, it's hard to change gears from what you already do well and anyways, to what?

      "Management: treating our MVPs like shit.since well before the French Revolution!"

    5. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (posted as AC cause I moderated)

      I've worked on all sides of this coin, as developer, sr. dev,, architect, manager and even latent founder and lots of other short temporary roles. I've worked at everything from a 1 man shop, to fortune 100. I've worked in government, restaurant, warehouse, sales, wholesale, entertainment, and basically everything but medical (I have a rule against killing people with code, even if it's not mine).

      And after years of experience, I must say one of my first bosses nailed it with his funny anecdotes towards employees...

      "There's two kinds of people in this world, lug nuts and ball bearings. Both are good employees, but they have to be managed completely differently."

      Lugnuts need to have project plans, statuses and meetings. They need organization, management and regular motivation.

      Ballbearings just glide along. You give them a task and they work it, and keep working. Some will go off in wrong directions, but you can be sure they are chugging away at the task. They don't deal with interruption much, they don't like meetings, and they usually prefer to finish things to perfection.

      Each type has their advantages and disadvantages. Lugnuts are typically seen as dependable because they are constantly managed. Ballbearings are seen as solvers and self-motivated. But both need to be reset every now and then onto the correct path.

      So yeah, complete generalization here - but it does help to understand motivations and managing. And you see a lot of ballbearings in IT. Enjoy...

    6. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by dontfearthereaper · · Score: 1

      Micro-managing I.T. is almost never wise....

      I agree with you, but in my experience (sysadmin/net engineer) I have seen that micro-management and obscene abuse of the IT department personnel has become the norm. It seems like upper management tries to make 'sport' out of it because they have nothing better to do outside of meetings other than make the few IT people who were dumb enough to stick around miserable.


      source: My 2 person IT operation supporting 10k +/- users with a budget lower than that of a homeless person, where neither of us are truly qualified to do half of what we do (our net engi/sysadmin/sw dev degrees are from the University of Google, and my cohort and I are supposed to be [and were hired as] Test/QA engineers)

    7. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having suffered through this and the obligatory annual pay review of no pay rise , you need to get more organised etc. I updated an old system. I put in-boxes back on my desk labeled 'work I should have down yesterday', 'last week' , 'last year' etc.

      Though I have to admit I am pretty much a burn out case and as long as I feel I have done a fair days work for my pay go home and turn my phone off.

    8. Re:Maybe I'm a bit biased, but .... by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      We had the same fate. All projects were to be ranked on a top 10 scale. Eventually I had 10 projects that all were priority 1, so then I needed a new top 10 for my priority 1 projects inside the other top 10. Repeat to infinity.

  28. Also fire his boss. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Usually "under-performance" is due to a bad motivator. :-)

    Fire his boss, he probably spend more time shoveling papers or making "Strategies " than handling his subjects.

  29. lolwut by Iniamyen · · Score: 2

    Culprit? Idiot? Turkey?

    Oh, and "under-performing" instead of "incompetent"? (Which is the word the article used.)

    Trying to figure out if submitter is PMSing or just bad at paraphrasing.

  30. You don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anybody who did that might just as easily have left a dead fish or even time bomb up inside the drop ceiling. Or they might just come back and shoot you. All your stuff should be committed in some kind of revision control. Go back and check his commits from the weeks leading up to dismiss, or when the trouble started if you can pinpoint it. Good luck finding the time to do that though.

  31. An abusive employer? by Ozoner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By using terms such as "culprit", "idiot", and "turkey" you indicate that you are a big part of the problem.

    Only gross mismanagement would let you get into such a mess in the first place.

    It sounds like he is well rid of you.

    1. Re:An abusive employer? by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe a case of projecting my experience onto the submitter, but it came off to me like he's the poor bastard who has to clean up the mess, rather than the boss. Having been in that boat myself (and still, to this day, occasionally find slushy little coiled piles of things like "converting" AM/PM to 24h format using 13 chained "if/then/else" statements) I'm willing to give a lot of leeway for "frustration venting."

    2. Re:An abusive employer? by tg123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By using terms such as "culprit", "idiot", and "turkey" you indicate that you are a big part of the problem.

      Only gross mismanagement would let you get into such a mess in the first place.

      It sounds like he is well rid of you.

      Parent post should be modded up +5 insightful.

      I agree this poster does sound like a very poor manager or the company he works for has management issues.

      What training programs do you have in place ?

      Was this person doing a poor job because of company work practices ?

      Was he faking that he knew what he was doing because no one showed him how to do it properly ?

      If these above questions could be answered then I think you would find that you would not need to be asking what to do after your Sysadmin / developer went off and found greener pastures.

    3. Re:An abusive employer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen to that

    4. Re:An abusive employer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no job in IT worse than being tasked with cleaning up somebody else's mess.

    5. Re:An abusive employer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "converting" AM/PM to 24h format using 13 chained "if/then/else" statements

      Didn't he know how to properly use goto?

  32. Make him leave on good terms by cstdenis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There isn't really any practical way to be completely sure, but one thing that can help is to not give him reason to want to attack the company.

    Lay him off and pay him out a good severance pay and he is much less likely to leave disgruntled. There may also be other parting perks besides pay that can generate good will depending on the person.

    This also give the added benefit of when something breaks in the old obscure undocumented part of the system only one person knows, that one person may be more willing to help. Tho how beneficial this is depends on how useless he is.

    As for the technical stuff, only way to be sure with sysadmin is rebuild all the servers from scratch (an extremely time consuming task of course).

    For programmer, the whole team should be doing regular code reviews anyway looking for any security bugs. Maybe an extra code audit would be a good idea.

    --
    1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
  33. Simple enough by AchilleTalon · · Score: 1

    Give me a gazillions boxes and I will fix everything.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
    1. Re:Simple enough by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Give me a gazillions boxes and I will fix everything.

      How is that different than asking for "Grant money?" :-)

  34. You also need to fire the idiot who hired them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How can incompetent people can get into technical roles if appropriate hiring practices are followed?

    1. Re:You also need to fire the idiot who hired them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No if anyone else is to be burned, it's either the tester or the manager that thought he didn't need one.

  35. I fired a sysadmin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Prepare, and execute quickly.

    After too many actual shouting conflicts with others, and numerous lies ("even I will have trouble upgrading X11") he had to go. First I arranged for our previous guy, who had gone off to be a consultant while finishing his PhD, to return (at his new rate+housing) for continuity. Then I spent 3 hours with the firee, discussing in detail why he had screwed up in so many ways. I gave him the option of quitting or being fired, he chose the latter for unemployment benefits.

    We went to his office, I told his assistant to change all the root passwords, and said clearly that I knew he could screw us anyway. That helped a little, and he was so unaware of his misbehavior that no bombs were left behind. My previous guy was on site the next day.

    We eventually hired an excellent professional. He's still doing a great job there through many changes after 20 years, although I left that organization a few years after that hire.

  36. You can bet on it by aglider · · Score: 2

    you'll still be cleaning up the problems six months later.

    The real issue is not the low productivity techie. It's that there's no manager with enough knowledge and skills to ... manage techies.
    Techies are seen somehow as "lone wolves" or "wizards" that "just do the (right) things".
    My solution?
    Hire a manager with the real knowledge (an former techie) and let him both manage and work with the younger techies.

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
    1. Re:You can bet on it by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      This is what I'm going in to. Over a decade in technical IT, and only now am I doing a degree, and it's one with "... and Management" in the title.

      I want to check the boxes that say "This guy can handle the freaky social pariahs in IT Tech, because he was one, but he can also put great covers on TPS reports first time around."

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  37. The first rule by codepunk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have been in IT for nearly 25 years now and have learned a few things along the way. The first rule is that most employees referring to others as idiots, turkeys, incompetent etc need to look first in their own seat.

    It is generally a reaction I expect from a dev or sysadmin covering his own faults by passing blame to others. I find most people just want to do what they where hired to do and do it well and given the proper chance and assistance will do just that.

    In the last 5 - 10 years though it is generally a result of understaffing and insane deadlines causing less than desired results.

    --


    Got Code?
    1. Re:The first rule by WillKemp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree. There's nothing an incompetent manager likes more than a scapegoat.

    2. Re:The first rule by David+McBride · · Score: 1

      There is truth in what you say; see also The Unspoken Truth About Managing Geeks for a further discussion along those lines.

      However, I have also seen cases where the person they're talking about really is an incompetent and/or immoral idiot, and what management are parsing as name-calling and a possible shifting of blame is, in actual fact, one of your staff warning you of a significant danger.

      While management might not like to believe they've hired someone with those qualities for a role, if it has happened, they would be well served to listen to the bad news being reported and take some action to assess and mitigate that risk!

    3. Re:The first rule by buglista · · Score: 1

      Yes. Us professional sysadmins refer to incompetent people as ****s.

    4. Re:The first rule by segedunum · · Score: 1

      I have been in IT for nearly 25 years now and have learned a few things along the way. The first rule is that most employees referring to others as idiots, turkeys, incompetent etc need to look first in their own seat.

      Damn bloody right. This article is describing a dysfunctional company to me, as opposed to merely a dysfunctional employee.

    5. Re:The first rule by Lieutenant_Dan · · Score: 1

      Man, I agree 110%. I believe in karma, the submitter will be on the receiving end one day and then he will be a bit more sensitive to others and show some empathy.

      --
      Wearing pants should always be optional.
    6. Re:The first rule by codepunk · · Score: 1

      Certainly and we all have seen this but it is extremely rare. Not long ago we had a junior guy on one of my teams that kept messing up a certain task thus labeled a idiot. So I pulled him aside and we went over the task and created a method for him to follow that would ensure success. He started using this and from that day forward he performed it without fail.

      --


      Got Code?
    7. Re:The first rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes however, the term idiot is one you grow into and is a sign of management not paying attention.

      You have a guy, he's bad at his job. A few months in your employees are like "you might want to look at Bob, he doesn't seem to have the passion for this position". A few months after that they are saying "You know, a lot of these problems are because Bob isn't writing documentation and doesn't seem to be trained enough on this equipment to use it." A few months after that they are saying "You know, I'm doing 3/4ths of Bob's work to keep this place running, why hasn't Bob been warned or penalized in anyway for his poor job performance?". Finally they are screaming "Bob's a fucking moron with no business in IT!".

      The truth is that Bob is just not skilled enough to handle his position and needs a more junior role, but the management just is happy with everyone covering for Bob and the perception that everything is fine. You point out that the root cause of the last 6 outages are all directly related to changes made by Bob without warning, documenting, or consulting the staff and you are still the "bad guy" who is just passing the blame. After all, "we are all in this together and need to work as a team."

  38. its not after... it is before you fire him by johnsyd · · Score: 1

    the most important is the before you fire any System Admins, they must reveal all super user passwords and remote access system must be all secured...all router and customer datafiles protected before you fire him. He must not have no backdoors or rogue wifi to your system and the after the actual fired bit... it is very important that you use that flashy thingy that Men in Black has.

  39. CELEBRATE by stanlyb · · Score: 0

    Organize a party, day and night, with a lot of drinks, and women. And Beeeee haapppyyyy, no more woooorrriiieesss.

  40. Turkey farm by WillKemp · · Score: 2

    I'd start by sacking the turkey that hired the turkey in the first place, and/or the turkey whose piss poor management skills allowed the situation to get so far out of control that someone needed to be sacked.

    1. Re:Turkey farm by Lisias · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, your measure would render the company stalled - it's impossible to substitute all the management at once...

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
  41. This is why you fail by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    when the culprit is shown the door.

    But the person who hired him still works at the firm... that's the real "culprit".

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:This is why you fail by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      I have seen this happen a few times. 80% of the time I would agree that it was a misguided hiring. (About half of these are what we refer to as "desperation hires.") The remainder can happen for a number of reasons-- divorce ranks high, mid-life crisis, alcoholism/drug abuse, and personality disorders are also on the list. Some can be caught at the interview stage, others can go undetected for years.

      The submission uses those words as click-bait though.

  42. Wrong question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...correct question:
    What would you do if you were a bad admin and wanted to destroy the company if you were fired ? ...then look there, if there is nothing either your imagination is bad or the man is not a real threat...
    case A. ask someone more paranoid than you (and btw. you are then not competent for the job)
    case B. ...oh wait, there is no case B.

  43. Been down this path... by Kelerei · · Score: 5, Interesting
    One of my previous employers, a while back, employed an individual who I will henceforth refer to as the Office Freak From Hell (it had various freaky habits: no personal hygiene, odd behavioural patterns, that kind of thing). I kind of ignored it at first (except to avoid it as much as possible), until it was moved over to my team. It didn't take me long to realise how useless it was -- his code was often delivered late, and was always of a poor quality (example: using strings as every variable type -- really, what the FUCK?). Between my manager and myself, we tried to mentor him, correct him and all of that -- we couldn't fire him straight away as South Africa has really fucking stupid labour laws which makes firing a tedious and difficult process at best (and you'd better not slip up, otherwise the fucktard can successfully sue for damages and the old position back). Meanwhile, I was searching for alternative employment (although mainly because software development in Durban is a dead-end industry, the OFFH was a major contributing factor), received an offer that I couldn't refuse from a company in Cape Town, and put in my resignation. I still had to work a calendar month's notice period though (Americans, things work differently over here!).

    That's when things got interesting.

    My manager and I started the process of handing over all my projects -- most to the rest of my team, but a few went to the OFFH. It didn't take long for the OFFH to piss off one of my soon to be ex-clients to the extent where top level management got involved, the OFFH was finally pulled into a disciplinary hearing (wasn't fired, but received a final written warning), and I had to step back in and clean out the mess. The next day, the OFFH put in for leave on the Friday coming up, went away... and never came back. It was formally dismissed for absconding shortly afterwards.

    That's when we found what was really going on. To summarise:
    • - The code that would be pushed through to production was often not the same code checked into the source code repository, and the production code was riddled with security holes, backdoors, and that kind of thing. (Since I used the code in the repos for code review purposes, I never picked this up.) A few months after I'd worked my notice period and left, I heard that they ended up writing new, parallel systems and chucking everything he'd worked on, while doing their best to maintain it until the parallel system was complete. (Side note: I left on friendly terms, and I still keep in contact with those guys.)
    • - When we went to try to get source code from his machine (see point above regarding the source repos), we discovered a whole lot of background services constantly maxxing out the CPU. We never found out exactly what they did, but given other discoveries, this pretty much resulted in the network team dropping everything and performing a full security audit of absolutely everything.
    • - He would often tag in after hours and during weekends. I remain convinced that he was up to absolutely no good during this time, particularly as I am in possession of an IRC log detailing an intrusion he was involved with on the South African XBox 360 fansite around mid-2009.

    So, while we thought we were dealing with mere incompetence, in truth, the OFFH was a malevolent fucktard.

    All of us involved has learned our lessons -- personally, I'm far more security conscious, and the folks I worked with are far stricter regarding who they hire, development practices and policies, and that kind of thing. As for the OFFH, it seems to have vanished into thin air...

    1. Re:Been down this path... by pointyhat · · Score: 1

      If you actually had a process with holes large enough for that to get through, I have no sympathy. You should be automatically building the production artefacts from the source control. There should be no intermediate process where someone can throw something in.

      Ego should be isolated from production.

      Our developers can only check out/check in and we keep deployment to two well trusted specialist guys who have been with us for 10 years. We also audit every damn line of code that goes in the repo.

      Even though I'm in charge of the whole process model, I have to comply with the rules as well. Someone always reads my code before it goes out and there is always test coverage.

    2. Re:Been down this path... by Lando · · Score: 1

      As noted, this is a management issue. If there is no checks and balances system to check on someone's work, then there will be issues. Heck, the greatest guy in the world can still make a mistake or enter unsafe code, that's why you have code reviews. Also, other than emergency situations, why is a coder working on production machines? It's a matter of not adequately staffing the positions in reality. Again, a management problem not really something you yourself can fix as a co-worker. Problems like these suggest a problem in the entire system not the one small place he is working on. If the business is dependent on the person themselves to report how well they are doing without any oversight, then the issues are not just with one person, he's just the one that got caught due to poor personal grooming and lackluster political skills. Without a policy to double and perhaps even triple check what is going on, then the business takes risks. It's up to management to decide if those risks are worth the gains.

      --
      /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
    3. Re:Been down this path... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, your company's fundamental mistake was hiring Evil Richard Stallman. Where the original RMS feels morally obligated and ethically bound to his work and community, his evil twin (Evil Richard Stallman) lacks all human empathy, enjoys Microsoft products and making people understand how fragile their digital existence really is.

      For the future, recommend that your company not hire any more famous developers' evil twins (although I hear they think we might have the wrong twin for Lennart Poettering). This hiring practice is almost as unrecommended as awakening the Gazebo. Almost.

    4. Re:Been down this path... by Kelerei · · Score: 1

      Thing is, it was a small, young company still figuring out what the best practices were to follow. When I had started there, things were extremely ad-hoc: there was pretty much no process at all (not too dissimilar from this, actually!), and I knew pretty much nothing when I started. Towards the end of my stay, I had pretty much taught myself concepts such as proper source control, process models and that kind of thing, and was trying to get things implemented (despite resistance from the "greybeards"). At the time when all this was going on, things were moving in the right direction, but the whole system was still far from perfect. It's likely been sorted out since.

      Like I said, sometimes it's necessary to learn the hard way.

    5. Re:Been down this path... by Lieutenant_Dan · · Score: 1

      Easy to say; harder to do; one also has to account for malice, incompetence and sometimes sheer stupidity. We did the usual screenings (criminal check, education, references, professional employment, etc) for an InfoSec position. Within a week of starting the fellow was surfing dating sites in plain view. Guy used his admin privileges to set up a SSH tunnel and surf off his home compuer. Heard it from a peer and couldn't believe it. Asked HR for permission and verified the browser logs myself. Within two days we asked him to leave the office and not come back.

      Mind you, that was the exception although at the time I got pretty down on myself for hiring this person and learned since then that some things are just out of your control. Most of the times we have been fortunate and got some great hires.

      --
      Wearing pants should always be optional.
    6. Re:Been down this path... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Between my manager and myself, we tried to mentor him, correct him and all of that -- we couldn't fire him straight away as South Africa has really fucking stupid labour laws which makes firing a tedious and difficult process at best (and you'd better not slip up, otherwise the fucktard can successfully sue for damages and the old position back)

      Socialism sucks, doesn't it? Gosh, imagine that people have a right to work and the company they work for doesn't have the last word? And your dehumanization of this living, breathing human being as "it" doesn't exactly speak volumes for your sympathy for other people, eh? You're a right-winger, aren't you?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  44. It can be worse, lots worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We fired a database admin who seemed to leave without issue. Did the usual steps to check for everything, no problems found until... The police turned up three years later armed with a search warrant for the CIO's office and the IT department. They knew right where to look in the hidden nooks and crannies of the server room, under the lift out floors for example and above the door frame of the CIO office. What did they find you ask? USB pen drives loaded with child porn! The CIO is arrested the manager is arrested the IT staff put through the ringer. Upper management cleans house. We, what was left of the IT staff, always suspected the fired database admin who had access to all these locations. The police got an anonymous tip. We suspect that at some point he planted all these drives around as insurance then waited several years and informed the authorities telling them just where they should look. Cases against the CIO and manager are still pending.

    1. Re:It can be worse, lots worse by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      That seems a little far-fetched. First, there's the delay. Most people aren't cold-blooded and thick-skinned enough to wait that long for their revenge, they'll go for it while the incident's fresh and they're good and mad. Second, above the doorframe? I can see thumb drives going undetected stashed in the sub-floor, but above a doorframe? You mean in 3 years nobody on the cleaning staff wiped off the top of the doorframe and knocked the drive loose? Nobody looked up on their way out and noticed it? 3 years is a bit long for that to be believable.

    2. Re:It can be worse, lots worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to clear up the matter of the doorframe we are in an older building the doors are an older stye with a ledge above the door it would be very easy to put a small thumb drive up there and no one would ever find it. This guy was a cool customer I can see him waiting this long. But who knows maybe the CIO was just a pervert.

    3. Re:It can be worse, lots worse by cpghost · · Score: 1

      That seems a little far-fetched.

      Yup. It sounds like a BOFH episode... but reality sometimes beats fiction.

      First, there's the delay. Most people aren't cold-blooded and thick-skinned enough to wait that long for their revenge, they'll go for it while the incident's fresh and they're good and mad.

      Considering the nature of the incriminating material, it would've been unwise NOT to wait a couple of years before letting the trap snap shut. Otherwise, it would have been too obvious and would have incriminated the guy they fired.

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    4. Re:It can be worse, lots worse by WillerZ · · Score: 1

      It should be relatively easy to bust the myth: what are the capacities of the USB drives? If they are all >4Gb I don't buy that they are from 3 years ago. Drive make and model would also give you a fairly firm point for the earliest point in time at which they could have been purchased.

      --
      I guess today is a passable day to die.
    5. Re:It can be worse, lots worse by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      It should be relatively easy to bust the myth: what are the capacities of the USB drives? If they are all >4Gb I don't buy that they are from 3 years ago. Drive make and model would also give you a fairly firm point for the earliest point in time at which they could have been purchased.

      Better yet, why would you store your child porn in those locations, anyway? Wouldn't you have them on your person or in an attempted safe location (locked desk, etc)?

      Why would someone go "Hey, I'm a big-wig at this company so I'm gonna go and download child porn at work, put it on a thumb drive, then store it in two locations where it can possibly be found, one of them being my office.

      That's total B.S. The authorities should know that (if they don't already).

  45. Incompetent or evil? by petes_PoV · · Score: 1
    If the individual in question could not do the work and made lots of mistakes, then it should already be within the skill-set of the remaining staff to fix the problem. If not, then the sackee doesn't sound like they were any worse than the remaining staff.

    If they were evil: did some bad things, sabotaged the operations, stole money/data/reputation etc. then your security people should be able to detect the weaknesses ('cos if they were good, yet evil, they'd still be working; undetected). If not, then it sounds like you have a secondary problem as well. Consider yourself top have just been the target of an unscheduled audit - oh yes: you failed.

    However the one thing you should do is to review your hiring procedures.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  46. I'm with the commenters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Malice is one thing, but if you're hiring someone so incompetent they can ruin your IT this way, and don't find out before they've had time to do so, then both your IT and your HR departments are probably being managed by incompetent people. (Not to mention the guy's supervisor.)

  47. Here ARE Dragons by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Backdoors from the current IT person aren't important?

  48. You might want to reconsider. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of calling him idiot or making joking references, you might consider the circumstances of his troubles and travails. It might be that some of his responses were actually fit for some out-of-norm situations. Also, people now and then make mistakes and if someone has had some file erased, well, people should make their own backups and not just rely on the server one.

    Anyway, it's always good practice to review his work and even try to end the relation on good terms, e.g. by giving a reasonable recommendation letter, so that he can have a fair chance on his next job. That will also create a positive climate among the workers that remain.

    Sorry for the inconvenience -- that's what he must be thinking now, the poor fellow...

    And please keep posting here, because, uh, people here might have had the exact same kind of problem you're having. And we love to help.

    Have a nice day!

  49. Article is Utter Crap by segedunum · · Score: 2

    For starters, referring to people as turkeys just makes me not want to take it seriously. Being sponsored by HP puts nails in its coffin.

    When sys admins put back doors in for themselves it is usually to get around ridiculous amounts of bureaucracy that stop them from getting anything done. A competent sys admin also does not 'add patches as they become available' willy nilly because those patches need tested, you need to understand what is in them and you need to make a decision as to whether you are affected by it and the disruption is warranted. It also seems to be about security companies selling their wares and installing 'data loss prevention systems', whatever the hells those are. Would I trust and outside set of consultants to come in and do that? No I wouldn't.

    Basically, if you're at a point where you are doing what this article says then your own company is incompetent and shooting blanks in the dark.

  50. Simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You hire an independent, outside, third party to do a full security audit.

    It won't be cheap, but if anything goes wrong after the audit, your company can lay blame squarely at the auditor (and more importantly the auditor's insurance will pay for your co.'s damages)

  51. Yeah right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Slashdot: where everyone is a CEO or manager.

  52. After?? How about BEFORE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldn't this be what to do BEFORE you fire one?

  53. What? by jasper160 · · Score: 1

    I thought they were sent to management.

    --
    No good deed goes unpunished.
  54. not a little bias here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What incompetent managed this person?

    They are so over emotional they use five deprecating descriptions in just one paragraph:
    "the culprit"
    "the idiot"
    "the turkey"
    "looking for the hidden messes and security flaws the ex-employee may have left behind"

    Why weren't they checking up on this employee?
    Their communication to the employee of their expectations should have been clear and the employees' deliverables specific.
    I'd say their problems as a supervisor are irredeemable.

    Blame everything on the guy that left. That's standard practice. Insert stock "three envelope" jokes here.

  55. It's not the bad ones you have to worry about by unfortunateson · · Score: 1

    It's the good ones. The bad ones can't set up a back door, or subtly corrupt data, and haven't frobbed any SSL keys.

    --
    Design for Use, not Construction!
  56. Underperforming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without actually discussing just what 'underperforming' means (hint: it's a wiggle word used by horrible managers that means 'I can't be bothered to get money for my budget so the guy who won't come in over Christmas is fired') I'd like to suggest these options of what to do after letting an underperfoming sysadmin go.
    1) Change all of your passwords and locks
    2) Don't bother looking for uber-secret shit because, if he/she really were underperforming, there won't be any
    3) Call a big meeting of the rest of the (by now) shit-scared underlings and explain to them in the nicest possible way that if they don't toe the line, they are next. Use the word 'underperforming' -- they'll get it.
    4) Go into your office and plan out the vacation you will be having with your performance bonus for getting more work out of fewer people.
    5) Buy some asbestos underwear for your trip to Hell.

  57. OP needs anger management... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..."idiot" "turkey", etc...

    OP needs help - and not just a new sysadmin.

  58. generalized form of the question by SylvesterTheCat · · Score: 1

    I think that this really be generalized to "when any employee leaves the company."

    The issue of under whose choice the departure occurred is pretty minor.

  59. Recommendations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am an incident handler by trade, and I have worked several cases regarding unauthorized access by former employees. While it certainly is not a representative sample of all such incidents, nor does it cover all possibilities, every case that I worked involved the former employee using either A) Their old workstation(s) as a point of entry using 3rd party remote desktop software as a backdoor or B) Re-entering using VPN credentials that had not yet been revoked. These actions usually took place within 48 hours of termination. Based upon these specific experiences, I would recommend the following. Note that the key with many of these items is actually doing it right away. Having "revoke terminated employee's remote access" in your IT policies does not help if you wait 2 days to implement. I have seen former employees re-enter the network immediately after termination, and by immediately I mean you fire me, I drive home and VPN right back in.

    - Immediately disable all credentials used by the former employee in such a way that the employee will not be able to access them, but where you WILL be able to log any attempts to authenticate using those same accounts throughout your network(s).

    - Immediately revoke remote access privileges. This may seem obvious to most people on this thread, but not everyone does it.

    - Removing the former employee's workstations from your network immediately upon termination. These are the computers where the employee spent most of his or her time and had the most control, AND the most privacy. If a backdoor has been left, it is most likely to be here. While an admin could for example leave a backdoor on a server, it is least likely to be noticed on a workstation by other staff. I can't overemphasize this one. Don't think you can audit their workstations to find a backdoor, just take it offline. I have seem a former employee come back in through his former workstation and wipe customer data.

    - Do preserve a copy of the drives from the former employee's workstation so that they can be examined down the road if the employee ever tries anything funny, or if you end up getting sued. If the drives need to go back into circulation, create an exact duplicate using any of the DD variants out there (dc3dd for example) or FTK imager. Don't forget to save the contents of the user's network shares as well, such as a network home directory.

    - Make sure you audit logon successes and failures to other information systems on which the former employee had access. These could be servers, databases, source code repositories. Whatever. If this set is too broad, focus on the projects where the employee spent most of his/her time. You don't necessarily have to chase down every successful auth to make sure that it's valid. That would not be possible in many cases. But check for the usual suspicious patterns such as authentications in off hours, blocks of auth failures, attempts to use the former employees account name, etc.

    - If there are any highly critical machines that the employee had access to that you are worried about him or her possibly having placed a back door onto, you could do a quick audit for suspicious activity. Just do a quick run with the Sysinternals tools on those boxes and look for suspicious processes, handles, open files, open sockets or network connections. You could even run rootkit detectors if you think the employee was extremely technical and capable of not only installing a backdoor and hiding it. If you're super paranoid and have a lot of time on your hands you could even dump memory and do a more thorough rootkit search using tools such as Volatility.

    - Any other additional logging/auditing never hurts, if you have the time.

  60. Get their guard down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if an under-performing employee is not at risk of becoming hostile on dismissal, their incompetence requires time for someone else to figure out what the hell they did.

    So here's what you do: promote them to a management role (with extra pay), and bring on 1-2 interns for them to "manage." Make sure said interns are headstrong and willing to meticulously document everything. Once they figure out the system enough, send out the pinkslip, change the passwords, and bring on one or both of the interns to full time.

  61. Fire the OP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Idiot? Turkey? Are you 5?

  62. can also put a box near a printer by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    can also put a box near a printer and make it look like it's part of the printer or even a fake network to usb printer box (that can be a mini pc) just say on this printer there is some stuff that can only be done over USB.

  63. Hire a sysadmin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hire a sysadmin new sysadmin good enough to pick up on any flaws, vulnerabilities, and poor system design.

  64. wHO cARES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let him wipe the servers and do a hard shut down and delete any production.
    It's all the same to me, I only collect a paycheck, let the investors and weenie managers worry about it.

  65. Fire? Turkey? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a Thanksgiving joke somewhere in there that I didn't get.

  66. A gram of prevention is worth a kilo of cure by Larry_Dillon · · Score: 1

    How about training under-performing or incompetent employees before the situation necessitates termination?

    --
    Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
  67. fire the one who hired him as well by Pirulo · · Score: 1

    and make sure that the next one is a good one

  68. Quit whining and cash your bonus. by BVis · · Score: 1

    The level of entitlement in the OP is staggering, but, unfortunately, not unusual. At least in the USA, companies seem to be convinced that they have a divine right to treat their employees like liabilities and traitors (and generally like shit), even in the absence of any proof whatsoever. Mandatory drug testing. Credit checks. Background checks. Interviews that are more like an inquisition than a productive effort towards a common goal. And if they even get the slightest whiff of their employees being dissatisfied with the quality of the shit they're being fed, out the door they go, with no explanation whatsoever. "Security will meet you at your desk and escort you from the premises. No, we're not going to tell you, you just don't work here any more. Your belongings will be mailed to you, at your expense. Here's some information that the fascist state we live in DEMANDS that we give people when we fire them, and since they're so incredibly anti-business, they also DEMAND that we actually give you the wages you've earned AND vacation pay. BASTARDS!"

    Companies treat their employees like the enemy. Labor relations resemble a banana republic civil war more than a professional interaction. A hostile environment makes people feel insecure and defensive, and when you threaten someone's livelihood for the mortal sin of not wanting to be treated like a garbage bin, they tend to take drastic steps to protect themselves (like using the resources they have access to to make it harder to fire them). Most people will choose continuing to be able to feed their families over ethics, especially when it's made clear to them that the people calling the shots have no ethics whatsoever and will not hesitate to throw them under whatever bus happens to be rolling by if it makes them look good (or covers for their own astounding incompetence).

    Firing people SHOULD be painful. Most of the time, it's not painful ENOUGH. Most of the time, the fired employee is hurt so much more drastically than the former employer; after all, the company can just scare the remaining employees into doing the ex-employee's job in addition to theirs.

    If you fire a key IT employee, and as a result your company burns, well, tough shit. You have nobody but yourself to blame for either hiring the wrong guy, or allowing an incompetent to run things for so long unsupervised, or treating a competent employee like garbage.

    --
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
  69. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...And, of course you are the one and only quality operator. There are bad operators, of course, but lots of readers will think of someone who simply arrives at a different solution as the type you mean to refer to. Our business is loaded to the gills with my way or the highway types. It is a shame that we don't mingle our ideas more freely - we would consistently build better solutions if we did.

  70. Transparency should already be there (for dev's) by atticus9 · · Score: 1

    Unless you're development team is one stand alone developer, using practices like code reviews from peers, a strong source control system, and so forth should make it difficult for the employee to check in broken / malicious code. Also you should remind the employee when they're leaving that if they did leave backdoors open they're subject to legal action, arrest, and other bad things that shouldn't make it worthwhile.

  71. Step One: Walk him to the door by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    When you fire him, you'd better be prepared to have him leave as soon as he picks up his personal belongings. Everything else can be mailed. You don't want a bitter, empowered employee sitting around for even 5 minutes with access.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  72. Verbal deal by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

    How about a verbal deal that gets around the problem that a lot of "fired" employees are dealing with nowadays?

    "We will show your position as terminated due to 'lack of work' so that you can get full unemployment benefits, as well as a wonderful job reference where we tell potential employers how great you are as a person and as a worker if you agree not to leave anything dangerous or possibly harming in place. If you choose not to comply, we will extend every power we have to ensure you are terminated for reasonable cause with no chance of unemployment OR job reference. We will also find any future employer you end up with and inform them of the dangers they face, unofficially, quietly, and without your knowledge of how we do it. You will have to watch your back professionally for the rest of your living years."

    I know, I know. No one would do that. But hey.....

  73. we are all in this together by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Whenever you hear someone say 'we are all in this together' put your hand on your wallet and back away from the motherfucker. He thinks his problems are yours and your money is his.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  74. What about the legal way? by allo · · Score: 1

    No one suggested it, yet ... why not?

    Just make him clear, if there are any backdoors and he uses them to do bad to the company, he will be responsible.
    When you come over one of the backdoors, remove it. But as long as you do not, just trust that he will be sued, if he uses them. He knows this, too.

  75. fire the idiot? by stormhalplus · · Score: 1

    Telling this in this place is like going to the black's place and say "how do I kill this nigga?". Who is the idiot here? Go deal with that. We are developers here and we have dealt with an insensitive dominant bitches that sit in a chair claiming things are other ppl's fault before. I hope your systems get penetrated/destroyed and the rest for being such a bad/evil person. And that recovery costs you all your money. I wish the best of the lucks for the developer and to get a good job than the crap you offered. This all reminds me about a job that the jerk just made promises while I used to reach the edge working around the clock and then sometimes didn't even got paid completely. The stupid ignorant that knew nothing about software development called me at times snail. I wasn't fired but had to quit. Later the jerk wanted to re-hire me again. Then I said sorry idiot you lost the thing. Go find a better developer if you can. To date he haven't :D.