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High-Voltage Fences For Zapping Would-Be Copper Thieves

Posted by Soulskill on from the Cu-on-the-other-side dept.

coondoggie writes "It may be a gimmick or the ultimate answer, but a California city this week okay-ed a draft ordinance that would let businesses install 7,000-volt electric fences to protect sites from rampant copper thieves. As reported by the Sacramento CBS station, the reaction from one business owner to the ordinance says it all: 'It'll be a little fun to watch one of these guys get electrocuted holding my fence trying to rob me.'"

11 of 363 comments (clear)

  1. If they want to stop the copper thieves... by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Start making the recyclers who pay cash for copper keep records and start prosecuting them for receiving stolen goods.

    1. Re:If they want to stop the copper thieves... by buybuydandavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, because regulatory compliance and associated paperwork, government inspections, lawsuits, and penalties impose 0 costs on businesses.

      And since everyone wants to be recorded in government registries, because everyone wants to fill in forms, because everyone is literate enough to fill in forms, it won't deter anyone from recycling either.

    2. Re:If they want to stop the copper thieves... by Improv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am so glad that systems need to be perfect and costs need to be 0 before we're willing to accept them.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    3. Re:If they want to stop the copper thieves... by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Tough shit, they had their chance for the zero regulation solution but their greed and willful ignorance is putting and end to that.

      It was just easy money for them -- the toothless loser driving the '98 Grand Am turning in a few hundred feet of brand-new 00 wire was perfectly willing to accept 30% below melt value for the wire and the owner was happy to resell it as new to the "ask no questions" contractor at a 15% discount below new retail.

      If you want it no regulation, that's fine, but let's make the punishments if you get caught:

      1) Accepting stolen merchandise -- clerk goes to jail
      2) Business is fined 3x the metal value and the metal or its on-site equivilent is confiscated
      3) Three violations in a 12 month period and you lose your recycling license for six months
      4) Two loss of license violations? Company, its owners and officers are barred from engaging in commercial metal recycling for 10 years.

    4. Re:If they want to stop the copper thieves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, if a police get a report of a house that had a crapton of copper tubing ripped out of the walls and floors, and then discover a crapload of copper tubing just happened to be sold to a scrap dealer shortly thereafter... it's not exactly a convoluted path to draw a line between the two. And given how much damage and work you'd need to do to rip tubing out of walls and floors, they can probably find some kind of evidence directly linking to the two. Hell, multiple identically-angled cuts from the identical grade copper scrap and what's left in the house is probably a good start, never mind any DNA evidence the thief left at the scene (hair, blood if he cut himself, skin, etc).

      Honestly, it would be trivially easy to link a thief with stolen scrap metal, provided the scrap dealer actually keeps fucking records like he's legally supposed to as is.

      And I happen to work in an industry where I know exactly what type of paperwork the scrap dealer needs, and for how long he legally needs to keep it (note: it's a bit longer than a few days. Try years.)

      Shut down or heavily fine a few scrap yards for buying illegal scrap without keeping proper documentation, and the rest will require valid photo ID to sell to them and have video surveillance of the sale counter before the end of the day.

    5. Re:If they want to stop the copper thieves... by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I like how he overlooks the cost to the companies, people, and governments having copper stolen.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:If they want to stop the copper thieves... by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh please. You clearly have no clue about any aspect of this at all.

      "So you would punish the innocent with more paperwork and regulations along with the guilty?"
      no. I would make it a regulation to maintain who sells you copper. Just like pawnshops have to do with their merchandise.
      It's not punishment any more then having to maintain fire safety codes is a punishment.

      " That doesn't sound very appealing to me. "
      less appealing then the millions of dollars in stolen copper costs everybody every year? Business who have increased their cost becasue of stolen copper. Government who need to increase the budget becasue of stolen copper. Who do you think pays for that?

      " it's not like thieves wouldn't lie anyways, which would give the recycles who take stolen goods plausible deniability."
      That is why you have a thumb print and picture. When someone who had stolen copper reports it, all the recycles get an alert. If you have the property, you contact the police.
      You give them the idea of the person who bought it.

      It's not hard, or expensive.

      Once people doing the stealing realize they will be held accountable, or can't find anyone to recycle it, copper theft will decrease.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  2. Re:A lot of fun by NIK282000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Bingo, as stupid as copper thieves are they'll figure out in a hurry that a cheap pair of gloves and some cutters will make short work of an electric fence.

    --
    Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
  3. Free Drugs by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How about instead of spending billions on replacing stolen goods and electric fences and insurance we instead spend millions giving away free crack, heroin and other addictive drugs? You get a card and you can go to a drug store and get free heroin. We'd save a LOT of dollars.

  4. the sales aspect is easily solved by denbesten · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having worked in the recycling industry for years, solving the "sales" side of this is easy.

    A posted and implemented policy of paying by check if the payout is greater than $20 makes most of these problems go away.

    This works because large volumes comes in trucks and legitimate businesses generally prefer to receive a check (prevents employee skimming).

    After that, invest in a few video cameras, particularly one trained at the parking lot exit (to pick up rear license plates). Attach these to a motion-detecting video recorder and make sure you know how to burn DVDs. The few times we have had to involve law enforcement, they were pretty happy with a plate number and footage including a face and "the goods".

    So far, we have never had the check cashed, but if we did, the cops would then have a tie to the criminal's financial institution and we would join their case with a counter-suit to get our money back.

    Keep in mind that we really do not want to make an illegal buck, but at the same time, we also want to earn the legal bucks as efficiently as possible.

  5. Re:Try it for a week and see if it's acceptable by TFAFalcon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If businesses are people, then why aren't they put in jail when they break laws? Why aren't they required to pay income taxes, social security, serve in the army if there is a draft,.......

    Businesses may EMPLOY people, and they can be OWNED by people. But they are certainly not people themselves.