Why Microsoft's Surface Pro Could Fail

Nerval's Lobster writes "Microsoft's Surface Pro boasts one feature that could rapidly become an Achilles Heel, especially if Microsoft intends for the device to compete against Apple's iPad and a host of lightweight Google Android touch-screens. In a Nov. 29 Tweet to a customer, the official Surface Twitter feed claimed: 'We expect it [Surface Pro] to have approx. half the battery life of Surface with Windows RT.' That means Surface Pro will have roughly four hours of battery life. That's roughly half the battery life (if not less) of Apple's various iPads, the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, Research In Motion's PlayBook, Hewlett-Packard's now-cancelled TouchPad, and Motorola's all-but-forgotten Xoom. In other words, pretty much every tablet currently on the market. Nor can the Surface Pro compete with other tablets on price. The 64GB version of the device will retail for $899, with the 128GB version coming in a little higher at $999."

Comments

It doesn't compete with tablets

[Guspaz]

It competes with ultrabooks. Unfortunately, it doesn't compare all that favourably to ultrabooks either (about the same price, same weight, smaller screen, no keyboard included), and stealing sales from Wintel ultrabooks doesn't really help Microsoft or Intel.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[ischorr]

...That's what I came here to say as well. It's competing against Ultrabooks, but it's unclear what its selling point would be for most purposes. Ostensibly a "Pro" user would want it for compatibility with legacy x86 desktop apps. But it's not clear that for MOST purposes like that a touchscreen (even with stylus) would ever be better than the hardware keyboard and pixel-accurate pointing devices that come with every ultrabook. There's not really a "pro" market for tablets at the moment, though I suppose that won't happen unless there's hardware for it.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Missing.Matter]

Exactly. This is for people like me who bought an iPad hoping it would replace my old Dell Latitude XT tablet i used for note taking in class and as a research notebook. I am sorely disappointed with the iPad's note taking capabilities, but still carry it around with my laptop due to its convenience on planes and while traveling in general. A device like the surface pro is a perfect replacement for my iPad and laptop for the work I do. For $1000 I could buy it, or a tablet + laptop and end up paying more money and carrying two devices.

I didn't buy a surface rt because it doesn't solve my problem any better than the iPad, but the surface pro is actually offers many benefits over the iPad. Battery life is not one, but it's more powerful, has an active digitizer, and can run any windows x86 windows software, so i see it as a worth while tradeoff.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[omnichad]

Novelty.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. Wintel stealing sales from Wintel doesn't help Wintel. If you could have just sold the product you're already producing there's no point sinking money into research and development of a new product - the revenue would have stayed the same but profit is lower as you need to fund the new research and development. That's oversimplified, of course, but if - that's a big if, but what OP was arguing - the only market segment interested in a Surface RT was already buying Wintel ultrabooks then the Surface RT is not a good product for Wintel.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[mystikkman]

Anyone else tired of the constant negative stream of non-sequitir flamebait summaries and articles on Windows 8 or even Microsoft/Apple on Slashdot and any and all positive or neutral news being totally ignored?

After driving away all the folks with half a clue, even the echochamber seems to be losing interest in constantly talking to itself on Slashdot, with only 33 comments after half an hour of posting inspite of the flamebait title and summary, just hastening the steady descent of Slashdot into irrelevance.

Last one out turn off the lights.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Missing.Matter]

It has a micro SDXC, full size USB 3.0, headphone port, and Mini DisplayPort. The Surface RT also has micro SDXC port for storage expansion.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[interval1066]

My next device will be an ultrabook, I have no plans to buy a tablet and if I did it would probably be a Nexus 7.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Andy Prough]

Go to BestBuy. They've got a whole shelf of what they call "ultrabooks" for under about $500-$600. Although they just look like smaller laptops or bigger netbooks to me. Not even very light-weight. I think the term ultrabook was pretty quickly co-opted by the marketing folks.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes a duck is a duck.
Sometimes Microsoft shit is Microsoft shit.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Missing.Matter]

I'm not talking about history notes, I'm talking about math and physics.... material where you need equations, charts, diagrams, and figures. How easily can you type me an equation or a chart? I've tried it, to be sure... and even with latex style markup it's just not fast enough. An active digitizer closely approximates the accuracy of pen and paper, something those fat capacitive styluses for the iPad cannot do.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[SomePgmr]

Yeah, people are still emotionally involved in microsoft's failure. It's a hold-over from when they really mattered, and behaved horribly.

Of course that's not so relevant anymore and there's no rational reason to get so worked up over "yet another device" or "yet another windows". I think even microsoft knows that getting traction with a brand new line of tablets with a new tablet-y UI on a new windows, in an already saturated market, is a difficult and risky thing.

We'll see what happens, but I'd guess (only guess) that the surface line will end up being like google's platform references while other companies produce their own, less expensive, more capable tablets with a breadth of options more like we're accustomed to in laptops.

Fire to Nexus to iPad to Surface... it'll be nice to see options filling in the cracks. You'll note the new, larger Nexus and new, smaller iPad. They're each trying to push out from their respective beachheads.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[joh]

It competes with ultrabooks. Unfortunately, it doesn't compare all that favourably to ultrabooks either (about the same price, same weight, smaller screen, no keyboard included), and stealing sales from Wintel ultrabooks doesn't really help Microsoft or Intel.

Yeah, it's a tablet that actually is a laptop that you can't use on your lap and is delivered without a keyboard anyway. Basically it's just an expensive PC that tries hard to look like a tablet. Because tablets are hot right now. So MS thinks that selling a bad tablet that also is a bad ultrabook must sell like hot cakes, because everybody badly wants the "full PC experience" everywhere.

Some people will love that thing, most won't care at all.

I think what MS will never understand is the simple fact that most people just hate PCs.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[truenoir]

The big selling point, to me, is the pen digitizer. Slate PCs and even convertible tablet PCs are relatively uncommon. Pricing is really not bad next to similar machines like the Samsung Series 7 Slate, or even relative to things like a Cintiq for entry level pen-on-screen stuff. It also seems like it'll have a much nicer screen than what's in most existing products to boot. If it was just a capacitive touchscreen with an included stylus like you can get for iPads/etc, then that'd be different. As a dual digitizer device, it actually seems like it'll be a rather attractive product for certain markets.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[mystikkman]

Don't forget the pressure sensitive digitizer with pen included and palm rest detection. That ain't cheap.

It's going to be very useful for meeting and class notes, especially when combined with One Note.

Not to mention digital art work and photography.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[poity]

GP is right in some respects though. Slashdot will nurture even the shittiest open source projects (Openmoko anyone?), and rarely dare print harsh truths about them. Imagine an article that told us Openmoko was destined to fail as it did. That article would have "called a duck a duck", but I can guarantee it would have been deemed FUD, astroturf, written by someone with a grudge, etc. Some of us have a higher expectation of Slashdot, because nerds are supposed to be more intelligent and thoughtful, and we are disappointed when its behavior doesn't rise above the fray.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[mystikkman]

Anyone else tired of the constant negative stream of non-sequitir flamebait summaries and articles on Windows 8 or even Microsoft/Apple on Slashdot and any and all positive or neutral news being totally ignored?

Let's see...

Monday - Windows 8 PCs Still Throttled By Crapware

Tuesday - Hello, I'm a Mac. And I'm a $248 Win8 PC.

Thursday - NPD Group Analysts Say Windows 8 Sales Sluggish

Friday - Why Microsoft's Surface Pro Could Fail

Also, note how news on Tuesday that Microsoft has sold 40M Windows 8 licenses so far completely missed Slashdot's front page... only to be briefly mentioned two days later in the NPD story summary. But when there was a rumor that Windows 8 sales were below expectations, there it was hanging on the front page.

Also Slashdot totally ignored the following:

The NPD survey didn't include the biggest sales day of the year, Black Friday.

Black Friday boosts Windows 8 net use in US above 2% http://microsoft-news.com/black-friday-boosts-windows-8-net-use-in-us-above-2/
Windows 8 sells 4 million copies in 3 days. 40 million in a month. Some apps get more than 1 million downloads and some apps go over $25K revenue.
Windows 8 overtakes all of Android web traffic in just 10 days http://www.androidauthority.com/windows-8-has-more-web-traffic-129925/

New tagline:

Slashdot, Fox News for tech zealots, Stuff that doesn't matter.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Anonymous Coward]

It's great for artists and for non-techies who can't type very well. For people like us, there are also two types of keyboard covers we can choose.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[rtfa-troll]

Have you used Windows 8 for more than 30 seconds in a store? I'm using it right now on a 6-year-old laptop. Windows 8 is just fine. It's certainly superior to IOS in every imaginable way.

I'm guessing you haven't used it much on a tablet Have a look at what the usability testers have to say ("modern UI is a new codeword for Microsoft's Metro interface

The available advice on designing for the "modern UI style" seems to guide designers to create applications with extraordinarily low information density. See, for example

The tablet version of Windows 8 introduces a bunch of complicated gestures that are easy to get wrong and thus dramatically reduce the UI's learnability.

Oh no.. that's not what I was looking for. I guess the visual design must be better than iOS:

The Windows 8 UI is completely flat in what used to be called the "Metro" style and is now called the "Modern UI." There's no pseudo-3D or lighting model to cast subtle shadows that indicate what's clickable

Maybe it's the new powerful features they added over Windows 7?

One of the worst aspects of Windows 8 for power users is that the product's very name has become a misnomer. "Windows" no longer supports multiple windows on the screen

Maybe the sacrifice is worth it because it improves the desktop version?

. On a regular PC, Windows 8 is Mr. Hyde: a monster that terrorizes poor office workers and strangles their productivity.

My only disappointment with the Surface is its low resolution. I've been rocking 1920x1200 for 6 years, and just got 2560x1440 on the desktop. I don't want to go backwards.

For most people it seems that the main disappointment is the low quality of the apps, even where there are any available, and the lack of responsiveness of those apps compared to the swishy interface. Given this, the only thing surface is really good for is acting as a video player. In that role, the low resolution screen is probably less important than in other roles.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Guspaz]

If you look at it from the perspective of it replacing an iPad or Android tablet, sure, you lose one thing but gain another.

But if you compare it to comparably priced Ultrabooks, you're losing keyboard, battery life, disk space, and screen size, and gaining pen-based input and a slight portability edge (it's slightly lighter than an Ultrabook).

When you look at it from that perspective, I'm not sure it's worth the tradeoff. Pen-based input on a computer has failed miserably every time anybody has tried to introduce it, so trading a built-in keyboard for a pen doesn't seem worth it. Some people will love it. Artists, for example. But they were just as well served by Tablet PCs, and then Slate PCs after that.

When I look at the Surface Pro, what I really wonder is what differentiates it from the Slate computers. Surface Pro is about the same size, weight, thickness, performance... It's a bit cheaper, but really, I can't tell how the Surface Pro isn't just another Slate.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[iHambone]

Go to BestBuy. They've got a whole shelf of what they call "ultrabooks" for under about $500-$600. Although they just look like smaller laptops or bigger netbooks to me. Not even very light-weight. I think the term ultrabook was pretty quickly co-opted by the marketing folks.

Exactly! Those cheap "ultrabooks" don't have the i5 that the Surface Pro does, lack touchscreen capability, eschew SSDs in favor of HDDs, and generally sport lower resolution monitors. You'll definitely be paying more than $999 for a touchscreen ultrabook with an i5 processor, 128 GB SSD and 1080p resolution. This is a high end device, and is priced accordingly.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Missing.Matter]

Licenses Sold is the same statistic that Microsoft reported during the lifetime of Windows 7, thus it's directly comparable. There were people in 2009 saying the same thing as you, but it turns out that Licenses sold is highly correlated with devices sold by OEMs. Seems like there are some smart people working at Dell, HP, etc. who figure out how much demand there is and buy the appropriate number of components (including OS licenses) so they're not left over with useless inventory (basic supply and demand economics).

As for whether real users are using Windows 8, sales of upgrades are outpacing Windows 7 upgrades... there are no figures by how much, but it's an interesting point nonetheless.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[0123456]

If I wanted to type in application names to run programs, I'd still be using DOS.

If your GUI requires you to type application names to start them, you've just shown that it's a lousy GUI.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[adamstew]

It matters if those licenses that Microsoft has sold to the OEMs in the first month haven't made it to the end users yet. If end users aren't buying computers with Windows 8 on them, then the pace of Windows 8 license sales will slow as OEMs aren't going to keep buying licenses at the same pace. The OEMs will still have enough licenses in their inventory of licenses to put on PCs as they are actually sold to end users.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[Pope]

Go to BestBuy. They've got a whole shelf of what they call "ultrabooks" for under about $500-$600. Although they just look like smaller laptops or bigger netbooks to me. Not even very light-weight. I think the term ultrabook was pretty quickly co-opted by the marketing folks.

Fucking LOL. "Ultrabook" is a marketing term that Intel invented to push laptop makers to clone the MacBook Air. "Co-opted" my ass.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[cbhacking]

Pen and also touch. A relatively low battery life for a tablet, but it *is* a tablet; it can run tablet-designed software, it can be operated with your fingers and thumbs while on the bus or the toilet, etc.

As for the keyboard, the Touch Cover and Type Cover both include keyboard and trackpad. The Type Cover is actually a quite nice ultra-thin keyboard. The Touch Cover takes a few minutes to get used to, but works fine. Combined with the Surface's built-in kickstand, they make a decent ultra-portable pseudo-laptop. The covers are stiff enough to be used on your lap, incidentally.

Re:It doesn't compete with tablets

[shutdown -p now]

You should look at other Win8 Intel devices, though, not just Surface Pro. For development, you'll likely want a larger screen, and definitely a better keyboard. So Asus Transformer Book and Dell XPS 12 might be better candidates. Thinkpad Twist, as well, though that's definitely on the heavy side. Maybe even Samsung ATIV (though its screen resolution sucks).

Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

Only a stupid person would think this. It is by FAR the most powerful tablet on the market, so obviously the battery life will suffer. To run full x86 applications will drain battery - its the best that it could be at 4 hours without being financially unviable. It's the same amount of battery life that laptop/tablet hybrids that already exist have.

The iPad may have more battery life, but it can't replace a laptop. Pro Surface can, and that is it's killer feature. Battery life at 4 hours is fine (plus, since it supports USB 3.0, how long until someone makes a USB charging block that gives you a full charge that you can carry around with you? Not long is the answer)

Re:Stupid

[alexhs]

It is by FAR the most powerful tablet on the market, so obviously the battery life will suffer.

Which means that it will run hot. Will it be possible to fry eggs on it ? Because it has the possibility to become the best kitchen tool EVER !

Re:Stupid

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

On the other hand, the Surface Pro has little to offer over an ultrabook - it includes a touchscreen. An ultrabook will have better battery life, and an increasing number are becoming available with touchscreens as well. All within the same price target as the Surface Pro. THis is a product looking for a market.

Oh, and ultrabooks all have keyboards - no extra charge.

Re:Stupid

[Missing.Matter]

The difference for people interested in the surface is that it can become laptop-like, while a laptop cannot become tablet-like. They have some that do: convertibles. But they never lose the bulk of their keyboards is tablet form. So there's a continuum here.... for people who want more tablet than laptop there's the surface. For people who want more laptop than tablet there's convertibles all the way to full laptops. No reason to knock the surface because it doesn't fit into the category you prefer; there are options for you and this is not one. Doesn't mean it won't sell to those who want this option.

Re:Stupid

[thetoadwarrior]

My 2 year old 13 inch MacBook Pro is intel based and gets 8 to 10 hrs on the battery easily. There is no excuse for surface getting only 4 hours unless windows just runs that poorly.

Re:Stupid

[s.o.terica]

The difference for people interested in the surface is that it can become laptop-like,

Actually, since it doesn't stand upright without a kickstand, what it really becomes is a portable desktop, since you can't use it with a keyboard in your lap, in bed, or on an airline tray table.

*facepalm*

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a full-blown Windows 8 laptop in a tablet form factor, stop comparing it to the iPad, the Galaxy Tab, the Playbook, the TouchPad, the Xoom, the Transformer Prime, etc....

Re:*facepalm*

[marcosdumay]

Ok, so let's compare it with full-blown laptops, that are both more powerfull and cheaper.

Re:*facepalm*

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Show it to the average consumer and ask them what it is. They won't tell you its an "ultrabook" ( and they wouldn't even if they knew what that was) they'll say "tablet" and compare it to ... other tablets.

Its like porshe comming out with a new model that looks idetnical to a toyota yaris. They need an easy way for consumers to tell where the extra money and reduced fue effiencincy is going. The nameplate of porshe helps, but you could also show them different performance specs and have them test drive it a bit. Microsoft needs to do something to make it easy to explain to people why its differnt than other tablets. Oh wait, they already have an identical looking device that does behavie like a tablet in surface with windows RT. That would be like porshe developing two cars identical to the yaris, one with great performance you'd expect of porshe and antother that has performance on par with the yaris. Basically, MS is screwed. That's too dificult to explain to enough people.

Re:*facepalm*

[MightyMartian]

Thus making them considerably more useful for running legacy apps.

Re:*facepalm*

[toriver]

but hopeless for working on while carrying them around. Well, compact desktops are useful, too, I guess...

Re:*facepalm*

[WaffleMonster]

Slashdotters say touch screens on laptops and desktops are insane,

I think this is pretty much a universal consensus. If there are any questions sit in front of a desktop and hold your arm out straight in front of you for an hour then come back here and let us all know how much you enjoyed the experience.

Re:*facepalm*

[0123456]

I firmly believe that the intersection of people who appreciate the tablet form factor but also would like to use legacy apps is large enough to sustain x86 Windows 8 tablets, especially in business and education.

How often do you plan to be writing Word documents on a ladder?

It's not competing with tablets

[Anonymous Coward]

The jury is still out, of course, but I'm going to take a hard look at the Surface Pro because it's an ultra portable, fully powered laptop. I have a Nexus 7 and they are in no way comparable. The Nexus is for light websurfing and gaming on the couch, the Surface could be for professional use as my main work computer.

But oh so much more power...

[Anonymous Coward]

Decent CPU, memory and hi-res display. Four-to-five hours is good commuting/coffee shop time, so while its a not a perma-road-warrior machine, its not horrible.

http://www.cmswire.com/cms/customer-experience/microsoft-takes-the-wraps-off-surface-pro-tablets-018506.php

Re:But oh so much more power...

[93 Escort Wagon]

Decent CPU, memory and hi-res display. Four-to-five hours is good commuting/coffee shop time, so while its a not a perma-road-warrior machine, its not horrible.

http://www.cmswire.com/cms/customer-experience/microsoft-takes-the-wraps-off-surface-pro-tablets-018506.php

And we saw how well this model worked for them the last time around...

Basically this is pretty much the same tablet paradigm they offered a decade ago.

Forget battery life - price is way too high

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Forget battery life - price is way too high.

I'd love to have a 7-8 inch Surface...if the price was around $250-280 and it included Microsoft Office. Instead, I'm moving my wife and kids Nexus 7s ($200/pop) and hooking them up to Google Docs. I've even abandoned my iPad/iPod infrastructure at this point - tablets are way too fragile (and easily stolen) to be paying $400+ for each one.

Re:Forget battery life - price is way too high

[ischorr]

Then this is clearly the wrong device for your needs, and it's not intended to be. The Surface RT would be a device aimed closer at you, though it'd be too expensive as well per your criteria.

Re:Forget battery life - price is way too high

[Cinder6]

Much as I agree it would be a cool thing at that price, $250 isn't much more than a full version of Office. Remember that Microsoft makes its money from software sales. I just don't see this happening, but it would be interesting to be wrong on this count.

Re:Forget battery life - price is way too high

[raftpeople]

"I'd love to have a 7-8 inch Surface" - Most people would but you just need to be happy with what God gave you

Re:Forget battery life - price is way too high

[phantomfive]

Then who is the device intended to be sold to? The same people who've been buying Windows tablets for the last ten years, and were unpopular?

Re:Forget battery life - price is way too high

[thesandtiger]

I'm on the opposite end - my use case recently changed and I needed a more powerful tablet (I was using an iPad2 for walkaround site visits), so I grabbed a ThinkPad X230T. With decent factory specs and some upgrades bought from Newegg (ssd, more RAM) it ran me $1030, and I get a battery life of 9.5-11 hours with the extended battery.

Surface Pro just seems like a product stuck in the not-so-sweet spot. People who need just a tablet can go with any number of choices (iPad, Galaxy, whatever) and people who need a tablet+, which is what the Pro seems to be going for, can just get a much better device for around the same price.

Re:Forget battery life - price is way too high

[thesandtiger]

The problem is that there are better devices at or just below this price point that have pretty much the same use-case as a Surface Pro.

Maybe I'm not being terribly imaginative, but I can't see a use case where the Pro meets form factor, function and price point while being a better value than many, many other tools.

And, it's aimed at "Pro" users - who will shop around and who likely have no particular loyalty to Microsoft.

Re:Forget battery life - price is way too high

[DavidD_CA]

$1030 for an X230T? That sounds like a pretty amazing price. They're listed right now (on NewEgg and Amazon) for just over $1300.

Too expensive!

[kencurry]

It's just too expensive; only clueless, rich snobs with more money than brains can afford it!

Sincerely,
Apple User

Re:Space

[ReptileQc]

I just realized while reading TFA that at these prices, it won't even come with the keyboard included. So add another ~100$ for the touch or type cover!

Can they do anything right?

[Luveno]

Reflecting back, it is sort of amazing how far Microsoft has fallen. From being nearly synonymous with everything computer related to now being the last one you think of when it comes to the technology that is nearest to us (our cell phones and tablets), it is stunning. And everything they make now looks like a desperate me-too move. Even more broadly, just a few years ago I was working in all Microsoft platforms from server and web development to desktop and office automation. Now, with the exception of Exchange, I don't even see Microsoft products. Amazing.

Re:Can they do anything right?

[chispito]

Perhaps their performance as a company is not always accurately reflected by Slashdot headlines, or the comments therein.

Re:Can they do anything right?

[smash]

They have no direction. All the smart people left and either retired or went to work for Google or Apple. Microsoft are just blindly firing money in all directions hoping to hit something at this point, but with design-by-committee products like this, they're not likely to get anywhere.

this is no surprise

[sribe]

- It's a shitty tablet: expensive, thick, heavy, short battery life, no mobile broadband.

- If you really need one in order to run your software, then you really need a laptop (or at least an ultrabook). In my opinion, it's not a shitty laptop, but neither is it a good one, especially for that price.

So, who needs this? Almost no one. In fact, maybe no one at all.

Re:title is incorrect

[hypergreatthing]

Even microsoft calls it the surface pro tablet. It has the word tablet in it's name, yet it doesn't compare to other tablets?
What exactly is a full-blown desktop OS? Android has a lot in common with linux. Hardware keyboard? I guess you've never heard of the asus transformer. What exactly is an ultrabook? It's just a small laptop, it's a marketing gimmick that apparently intel has sold you on.
What benefit does a surface RT has over android tablets? What benefit does the pro version have over the RT version? as far as i know the only pro is that it runs native x86 applications. That's the only benefit. At double the cost of android tablets? no thank you.

I have a x86 tablet

[nebular]

I have an ExoPC. It gets about 4 hours of battery life. With current x86 mobile chips, that's about all you're going to get without killing the performance

The surface pro isn't competing with the ipad or the android tablets. It's targeted to those who need to be able to run existing windows applications, but want the convenience of a touchscreen tablet. That's what I wanted when I bought the Exo and it's why I'm interested in the surface pro. I didn't expect as long battery life.

If Microsoft knows anything they aren't expecting huge surface pro sales.

Slashdot news generator

[gtirloni]

Why Windows 8 will fail...
Why Windows Phone 8 will fail...
Why Surface RT will fail...
Why Surface Pro will fail...

Re:Too Expensive

[MightyMartian]

Mitaybe Surface will be an enormous success. I have no idea, and neither do you. I do know they're overpriced and compared to most notebooks of the same price underpowered. Gambling that tablets are going to replace standard computing may pay off, but MS is the new guy in town and its record on new tech over the last decade has been tragically woeful.

The safer bet right now is that Surface will fail.

Ongoing terrible news coverage.

[stonecypher]

Reviewing the Surface RT? Point out how it isn't a laptop.

Reviewing the Surface Pro? Point out how it eats more power than tablets from years ago.

Why are we not shaming these article authors for their transparent bias?

WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

HOW COULD IT NOT?

1) 900 Dollars
2) Hot, Power Sucking Intel Chip
3) Boots desktop OS with a BIOS
4) Consumes 32+ GB of storage with system binaries
5) The frequently-discussed "Win8 trainwreck" UI
6) Needs Forefront/Essentials/McAfee/Symantec-Norton/etc..
7) Steve Ballmer

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[rgbatduke]

I was in our local supermall yesterday. They had an interior kiosk set up to sell Surfaces, manned by an easy half dozen earnest young salespeople hired for the season. They didn't have a single customer in view -- not one in all the times I walked by it. Everybody standing around looking bored.

The Apple store about fifty meters away, on the other had was absolutely packed, as it always is, with customers waiting in line. It wasn't even a busy night at the mall -- parking was actually pretty easy for the season.

The really interesting question is -- can Microsoft compete ANYWHERE on a level playing field? If they didn't have the world's computer retailers in a ball-lock with their pricing formula, would they even exist? The answer is not so clear. I've watched student PC and laptop ownership transition from nearly all WinXX PCs to nearly all Apple products in only five years. iPhone, iPad, iPod, thinline apple laptop -- standard operating equipment for current college students. A smattering of Droid tabs and phones in there -- it is the nerd product and also pretty cool. Even linux-based systems -- the choice of the ubergeek -- are starting to compete with Windows systems for a whole generation of kids.

If Valve/Steam works out and games move over the Linux big time, Windows could actually experience the start of its long awaited death spiral.

rgb

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[mystikkman]

Can the iPad or a Android Transformer or Nexus do any of the following?

1) It has a fully powered USB 3.0 port, connect any and all your devices you want to, even simultaneously with a powered hub
2) You can connect a Nexus tablet or phone and develop and test Android applications on it with Eclipse.
3) Has an active real digitizer and comes with Pen input, great for classroom and meeting use, especially combined with One Note
4) Can run the real Photoshop and not the lite crippled touch based stuff available for the iPad
5) Can run touch apps and browsing for couch use, although an additional cheap 7" tablet might be good for couch, bed and bathroom use.
6) Does not consume 32GB+, perhaps around 15-20GB.
7) Put in or swap through one or multiple 32GB/64GB/128GB SDXC cards. Upgrade to higher capacity or more in the future as prices come down.
8) Use real touch optimized apps and games on it, like Fruit Ninja. The Macbook Air fails at this.
9) Comes with builtin Defender(MSE) that's barely noticeable in daily use. Disable it if you're a capable geek trying to optimize the system.
10) Comes with a 1080p touch screen and a mini display port supporting a monitor upto 2560x1644 resolution
11) Alleged trainwreck UI is specially optimized for a device like the Surface.
12) Does not come with a BIOS. Comes with UEFI which has many more features but boots very very fast, like in 7 or 8 seconds. Update your hate machine.
13) Steve Ballmer? Ok you got me, Surface sucks if you're attracted to Steve Ballmer who you seem unhealthily obsessed with. Stay away. If not, there's some cool hardware and software in there.

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Look.

I'm not a fanboi. I do have a long history with Apple - an Apple ][ in 79-81. I loved, and could never touch, the NeXT in its heyday. I wrangled lab work to get to the NeXT and Indigos....

At that time - Mac II FX & ci - I hated Apple. OS 6,7 made me laugh.

Despite being NeXTophile, I thought Apple passing Be for NeXT was a mistake. I got that one wrong...

It took a couple of revs on OSX before I was more than just curious. By the first Aluminum PowerBook? I was at least a partial user.

I'd rather be running Linux. Most of the time, I do. But I have a MountainLion setup that, after hours of tweak, matches most of my Mint/Ubuntu/Elementary setup. (Hit F12, and console visor drops, with multiple tabs. Full toolchain and POSIX/GNU essentials)

So, I am prepared to say that the Retina MacBookPro is - by far - the best computer I have ever used in my life. If Sony or Dell came up with something equal, I'd have no qualms - but I don't hold my breath. This thing is so fast and responsive, I run a fullscreen Quetzal VM instead of a 2010 Latitude.

This is not a fluke - but apparent to anyone who's had the opportunity to evaluate a daily experience between the me-too PCs and the Apple package.

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[spire3661]

15-20 GB out of 64GB(pre-formatted size) is UNACCEPTABLE. how do you defend that? the 64 GB model should not even exist at those price points and shows MS' desperation in keeping costs down.

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[rgbatduke]

Oh, I'm not arguing -- a lot of our linux-centric sysadmin folks here like apple laptops, and as you say, they've long since gotten to where they've got a full or nearly full complement of unixoid tools and features and most of the important OSS offerings. Of course, the students I'm referring to are not in your (or my:-) geek class. They just like them because they are thin, cool as in socially acceptable, and work pretty well. I'd say the "work pretty well" is one of the most important things in the list, even.

My own gripes against apple are strictly premium price, the fact that I need cone-head amounts of compute power even on my laptops a lot of the time (e.g. i7 processors and a mountain of ram), the fact that all of my source is written under linux, and the fact that its "coolness" actually annoys me. Oh, and the fact that my wife's iPhone got a SINGLE DROP OF WATER on the charging port, popped the little red tab, and even though it was fully functional (until it ran out of charge) it refused to charge and had to be completely replaced for almost 1/3 of its cost in spite of us having a service plan on it. Otherwise known as "Rip-Off Hardware Design", brought to you by a company eager to take your money in exchange for coolness.

Personally, I like my Casio android phone with its waterproof covers on all ports. You can (reportedly) drop it into a meter of water, pull it out, wipe it off, and it not only works, it works literally untouched. Not that I care to tempt the gods, but all that AND it cost a fraction of the iphone and has all of the android apps available, most for free.

Apple does sell its own version of kool-ade. That's not to assert that sometimes they don't deliver value for money -- it is to assert that they display the same shocking arrogance that any market leader seems to gain when they get on top in the PC universe. All that engineering skill -- so much that they actually bother to engineer in the little red switch! -- but somehow they can't manage to build a charging interface or user interface that a drop of water can't kill.

Or worse, they could easily do so, but prefer to make all of that money when people have to buy second and third iphones etc.

rgb

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[thoth]

Yes, the Surface is more powerful than other tablets.
But "the market" has shown that the people buying these things DON'T want that stuff.
This is the downfall of the device, it straddles two worlds and is compromised.

I actually tried a Surface out, at the local Microsoft store. Honestly, I didn't think it was bad. I got used to the touch cover after ~10 mins, it seemed OK. I'd get one just because I like gizmos, but it would need to be about 50% of the current price for me to do it. That's the Windows RT version, I wouldn't mind a device with limited software and basically use browsers and so on. But not for $600. And no way for $900 or $1000. For that I'd either get a tablet for cheaper, or a notebook for a little more.

Granted, I'm just one data point. We shall see how well this Christmas season treats Windows 8 and these Surface devices. I have a feeling it is going to be very ugly for Microsoft, just based on software availability (RT and app store), UI issues (not talking just getting used to Metro, I mean the confusion people are going to have when they can't find their files because of Metro app sandboxing), cost, and the sheer momentum of the other mobile ecosystems.

I mean seriously, just to pick from your spin list. #3 - active digitizer. Hasn't that failed to be a selling point for 15+ years? And #4 - photoshop. Of course the ipad version is "crippled for touch" - running photoshop full blast means a real keyboard/mouse not the touch cover implementation (keyboard and touchpad is OK, not a heavy use replacement for the real things). Kinda defeats the purpose at that point. #2 - dev system for other mobile devices. Seriously, who the heck is that a major use scenario for?

Sorry but that list is something only a Microsoft product group manager would come up with, which is "how can we make a mobile device that leverage Windows" and not the other way around which is "what do normal people do with mobile devices?"

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[mystikkman]

The Surface Pro won't be available for Christmas. Coming to your point, it matches a lot of use case in Enterprise. Supports AD and Group Policy. Can push apps and updates while pushing them to desktops and laptops, take meeting notes. Can easily get away with using it on business trips for most folks. iPads are bought but only for executives who think they're playthings meant for playing Fruit Ninja and thus cannot be trusted with a regular employee.

>I mean seriously, just to pick from your spin list. #3 - active digitizer. Hasn't that failed to be a selling point for 15+ years?

That doesn't really mean it will continue to fail, especially with devices becoming faster and getting more capable. For example, the Galaxy Note II is selling quite well with one. A device like the Surface wasn't technologically possible 10 years ago.

Re:WHY COULD IT FAIL?

[gumbi west]

"can Microsoft compete ANYWHERE on a level playing field" I do really like their keyboards.

The better question:

[Cyko_01]

Why microsoft surface could succeed

Thanks for telling us why NOT to buy a Surface Pro

[Rob Y.]

5) Can run touch apps and browsing for couch use, although an additional cheap 7" tablet might be good for couch, bed and bathroom use.

That pretty much sums it up. The Surface Pro is usable as a tablet, but not really handy as one. Why not just buy a cheap laptop. It would be as powerful as the Surface, have much more storage, and the savings would pay for the Nexus 7 you admit you really ought to have for the times you really want a tablet.