Slashdot Mirror


Researchers Create New Cheap, Shatterproof, Plastic Light Bulbs

hattig writes "US researchers say they have developed a new type of lighting that could replace fluorescent bulbs. The new light source is called field-induced polymer electroluminescent (Fipel) technology. It is made from three layers of white-emitting polymer that contain a small volume of nanomaterials that glow when electric current is passed through them. The developer is promising cheap, hard-to-break, mercury-free, highly efficient bulbs from 2013."

296 comments

  1. I am having a vision of the future... by localman57 · · Score: 3, Funny

    A vison of the future is coming to me... I see... Angry old people...Muttering in the aisles at wal-mart...calling their congressman...bitching at dennys...about... what?...I can almost hear it... yes! They're complaining about the phasing out of of the CFL lightbulbs in favor of these new ones...

    Everything is cyclical, I guess...

    1. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by halltk1983 · · Score: 2

      There are always drawbacks. There is less reason for the inventer to show the drawbacks. Call me a cynic, but I'll hold my excitement for them until we see all the ups and downs. Who knows, maybe those old people will be right.

      --
      Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
    2. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The funny thing about florescent tubes is how recently they became 'controversial'. Essentially all the R&D was in place for conventional hot-cathode tubes by the late 30s, and they were owning the commercial, industrial, and other cost-sensitive bulk sectors. And these were the good shit: Mercury, beryllium, the kind of stuff that wasn't good for you even in the '50s, back when smoking and liquid lunches were doctor-approved...

      Once they became symbols of tyrannical envirofascist totalitarianism, though, you'd have thought that they'd started filling the things with nerve gas.(Amusingly, the bulk commercial/institutional users still don't give a fuck. Just stay after hours at any giant cube farm or similar and you'll see the janitors shoving around garbage cans full of old tubes, half of them broken, without the slightest concern...)

    3. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Long lasting" is the phrase I noticed is missing from their list. This sounds like the kind of beautiful, perfect light source that loses half it's lighting power after six months.

    4. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're kind of putting the blame for all of this on the wrong people. Yes, the "common man" is bitching about having to use CFL over the traditional lightbulb, but it's the government that now shuts down schools when an old mercury thermometer breaks in the basement. It's the government that makes you put burnt out CFL bulbs in a special bag, on a a special day when it's time to throw them out. When people don't have information, they act on what they know.

      Incidentally, I think liquid lunches are still good for you. It was insurance companies and MBAs that kill those.

    5. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by robot256 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Last sentence of TFA:

      He also has great faith in the ability of the new bulbs to last. He says he has one in his lab that has been working for about a decade.

      Which of course doesn't mention the stability of the light output over time or the similarity of this one to the production model, but it's at least theoretically possible.

    6. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Temperature sensitivity and reaction to incoming light are two things I'd be concerned with. Outside of that, these do sound a bit too good to be true...

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    7. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by robot256 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's also the government that has to clean up the land fills and ground water when they get sued for letting people dump so much mercury into them. So their only failure is in not educating the public and not providing better recycling facilities. Also, it's the local governments that have to deal with these problems, while the federal government is the one mandating CFL use.

    8. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or the color, and warmth of the light.

    9. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      knowledge and available alternatives (or the possibility thereof) change opinions.

      As for the commercial/institutional users - they tend to shave every penny they can, regardless of the health and safety of their employees, so how's that say anything other than "it's cheap and not illegal, or enforced to the point where the illegality matters"?

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    10. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Hold on lads I've got an idea :)

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    11. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is issue isn't if the Old People are Right or Wrong, but their reasoning for their decision.

      Often the argument is driven by a nostalgic emotional attachment, and not by any rational measuring of the advantages vs disadvantages.

      A lot of people miss leaded gasoline, because they miss the sweeter smell it gave off, vs. the harsher unleaded gasoline smell. Is a slightly better smell while filling your tank worth having hazardous chemicals in the air, and a residue that can get on your hands that is harmful as well?

      Or those people who often buy unpasteurized milk on the black market. Because they claim it tastes better and has nutrition. Does the difference in taste and a minor improvement in nutrition outweigh the serious illnesses you can get from it?

      If you go across hating everything, you can always nitpick and hang onto that one redeeming feature no matter how minor it is. Or you can jump on the bandwagon and say everything that comes out is immediately superior. Or you can just be balanced and actually stop thinking you are an expert in everything, and try it out, and/or read about it from many sources and judge for yourself if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    12. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by SumterLiving · · Score: 1

      My reason for bitchin about this is because I'm old. Why the hell do I need a light bulb that last 10 years? Heck, 6 months might be over kill in my advanced state of "age".

    13. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2

      Prototypes should always work perfectly.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    14. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by poetmatt · · Score: 0

      how about melting plastic?

      Surely that's great for your health. It's not like it's known to cause lung cancer or anything. Or that we should try to make as little as possible from plastic, considering it is (in it's cheapest forms) manufactured from oil, right?

    15. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by halltk1983 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I see a flicker from florescent lights. CFLs and bar style. Bugs the crap out of me. Had to switch to torchiere style lights so it at least bounces off the ceiling first. They cause me headaches over a long period of time. I switched a lot of my lights I use most commonly to LEDs around the house and it helped. Point being, sometimes people don't hate something because it's different. Haven't bought an incandescent bulb in years, because I'm energy conscious, but I can see where others might not want to subject themselves to headaches because someone else says they can't buy the bulbs they like.

      --
      Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
    16. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Get off my carpet!

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    17. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by art6217 · · Score: 1

      Pehaps they'll miss the unnatural yellow tint CFLs give, to save on the inefficient red phospor (some of the CFLs with the best light are B on the efficiency scale, because they contain balanced amounts of yellow and red).

      More seriously, traditional bulbs give off warmth, which some people understandably like, especially in colder climates. And modern halogens are C on the efficiency scale, not bad given their sun--like light. The trick is to use a special glass cover that returns some of the infra--red band back to the tungsten.

    18. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Informative

      The bulb backlash is driven mostly by a political divide. The US is very much a two-faction country, politically - the liberals and the conservatives, represented by their respective political parties. Environmental causes have long been seen as a very liberal thing, so those on the conservative faction feel they are obliged to downplay the issue and oppose any solution.

    19. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by kelemvor4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is issue isn't if the Old People are Right or Wrong, but their reasoning for their decision.

      Often the argument is driven by a nostalgic emotional attachment, and not by any rational measuring of the advantages vs disadvantages.

      A lot of people miss leaded gasoline, because they miss the sweeter smell it gave off, vs. the harsher unleaded gasoline smell. Is a slightly better smell while filling your tank worth having hazardous chemicals in the air, and a residue that can get on your hands that is harmful as well?

      Or those people who often buy unpasteurized milk on the black market. Because they claim it tastes better and has nutrition. Does the difference in taste and a minor improvement in nutrition outweigh the serious illnesses you can get from it?

      If you go across hating everything, you can always nitpick and hang onto that one redeeming feature no matter how minor it is. Or you can jump on the bandwagon and say everything that comes out is immediately superior. Or you can just be balanced and actually stop thinking you are an expert in everything, and try it out, and/or read about it from many sources and judge for yourself if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

      I think the milk is a bad analogy. It only affects the person consuming it, unlike low power light bulbs or leaded gasoline. If someone wants to eat something that is potentially hazardous, that's their business.

    20. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It could be an extra item for your will. "I bequeath my long shining light bulbs of the future to my next of kin."

    21. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen a lot of people make that complaint, but how many of them have survived independent tests of that flicker?

      And given that there are solutions, from a faster flicker, to a DC conversion, to simply bitching at your electric company to fix their equipment (yes, I know somebody who had a problem with incandescent flicker because of that), I'm not sure it's a problem that can't be solved in other ways.

      Though honestly, switching to LEDs is hardly a true burden. Yeah, it hurts in the beginning, but when you don't have to change the bulb for years, it works out, even if you don't notice the savings on your electric bill.

    22. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is issue isn't if the Old People are Right or Wrong, but their reasoning for their decision.

      Often the argument is driven by a nostalgic emotional attachment, and not by any rational measuring of the advantages vs disadvantages.

      Wow; that's some magical insight into the older mind; and by the way, why do younger folks always think they perfectly understand older folks, but refuse to accept that the reverse might be true? It's not like the older folks used to be younger or anything...

      But back to the issue at hand, the older crowd is still human, so there is certain to be some faulty reasoning based on emotion rather than logic in the older crowd (gee, you'll never catch a young person doing that, will you?). However, it's really a lot more likely to be at least partially based in the "been there, done that" syndrome. By the time you have a few decades as an adult under your belt, you've seen that the hot new thing which is going to revolutionize whatever generally turns out to be a bust, and the few things that do deliver don't need a lot of hype or legislative help to become ubiquitous.

      So yeah, put down the older folks because they're just not capable of the kind of fact-based rational thought which is your only mode of operation, but you might want to consider that sometimes, just maybe, they really do know something that you don't.

    23. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of people miss leaded gasoline, because they miss the sweeter smell it gave off

      I never heard this before, and I'm not buying it. When I started driving all gas was leaded, and it all stank. It's also all toxic, just with one fewer toxin (and fewer mentally retarded kids; that's what lead does).

      The reson that folks bitched about unleaded gas the lower octane, and some older cars (particularly high powered cars) needed to be de-tuned to run unleaded or holes would burn in the pistons (the lower the octane the faster it burns) and some had problems with intake valves, as the soft lead acted as a kind of bumper.

      Run that 92 octane leaded gas in your new car and you'll burn out your exhaust valves, because it will still be burning when the valve opens.

      Or those people who often buy unpasteurized milk on the black market. Because they claim it tastes better and has nutrition.

      I don't drink much if any milk any more, but I do remember my garndpa's farm and drinking the fresh, unpasteurized milk. It did indeed taste better. Do vegetables not taste different when cooked? So does milk. But I wouldn't want to drink it from one of the filthy factory farms they have today.

      Pasteurized eggnog is worthless -- there's an emzyme in raw egg yolk that kills hangovers, and heat destroys the emzyme. When I was a kid, folks made their own eggnog -- but the FDA did a better job and farmers weren't so greedy that they didn't care of their customers got poisoned. Now drinking home made eggnog is almost certain to give you a bellyache and the runs, and maybe even a hospital stay unless you raise the chickens yourself.

      That said, I never could understand my mom's dad, who was dead set against getting indoor plumbing. Even after my uncle built a bathroom, Grandpa still went out in the snow to the outhose.

      Old people are crazy. But so are young people, just a different kind of crazy.

    24. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Creepy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I was going to say most LEPs (light emitting plastics) last decades, but they do fade over time. One I was looking into to replace neon said to expect 60-70% brighness after 10 years (but I think 4 hours of use a day, so 12 hours or 24 hours per day would be 3-6x worse). One of the major drawbacks to the LEPs currently available is they are not very bright, so it sounds like Fipel solves that.

    25. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by hackertourist · · Score: 5, Informative

      For TL tubes, you can get dimmable electronic ballasts which convert the power grid frequency to something in the 10 kHz range. I have one hanging over the dining room table, and it's wonderfully silent and flicker-free. The only drawback is the price (~$40).

    26. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You realize that incandescent and led lights also oscillate? Incandescent pulses with the AC but it's mitigated by the thermal capacity of the fillament. And LED strobe at around 500hz or higher.

    27. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      If they're free of flicker and buzzing, are instant-on even below 55F, don't cost >$20 each, and are dimmable, I can't see anyone complaining.

      The big problem with banning incandescents is that in uninsulated basements, garages, and directly outdoors, CFLs are utterly worthless during the winter unless you plan on keeping the lights on 24/7 to maintain operating temperature - which completely defeats the purpose of high efficiency lighting.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    28. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by aurispector · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Incandescent bulbs keep looking better and better. I was using CFL's before congress basically mandated them because they last a long time, but hate the fact that they create mini superfund sites every time you break one. The polymer described does sound like it has the potential to be toxic as hell if it burns.

      New technology is great but it would be even better if congress would stop shoving this stuff down our throats.

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
    29. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Outside of that, these do sound a bit too good to be true...

      So did VCRs, affordable computers, cell phones, the end of polio, my having an eye operation that cured my lifelong nearsightedness and my age related farsightedness...

    30. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Oh and one more thing: if they can cover the full color spectrum for proper color rendition and come in an actual white rather than "daylight" that makes everybody look ill or fugly yellow "soft white", they will be better than both CFL and LED lamps as well as incandescent for indoor purposes as well. :-)

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    31. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that I can get a 8 pack of 100 watt incandescent bulbs for like, $4. That same CFL is going to run me $4 for 1. And I can't put it on a dimmer. And it is loaded with mercury. And they don't last for crap.

      So, why, again are CFL's better? Get off my lawn!

    32. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      I'm fiscally conservative, and see conservation as a smart financial move. However, it has to be practical as well. How will these lights perform in cold weather? All my interior lights are CFL, but outdoors I've switched half of them back to higher-wattage incandescents than before (because the lower wattage units are not as available now) because once the temperature falls below 55F, CFLs take a very long time to reach full brightness.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    33. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well given how you've managed to reach your own conclusions based on no evidence, the reasoning for the imposition should be self-evident.

    34. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      > A lot of people miss leaded gasoline, because they miss the sweeter smell it gave off, vs. the harsher unleaded gasoline smell.

      I have never heard of this. Some people miss it for the protection the lead gives the valves, and others miss it for the higher octane rating required for older high-compression engines.

      > Or those people who often buy unpasteurized milk on the black market. Because they claim it tastes better and has nutrition. Does the difference in taste and a minor improvement in nutrition outweigh the serious illnesses you can get from it?

      1. You misspelled grey market
      2. It tastes MUCH better
      3. If the cows are grass fed and not raised in a factory style setting, it's a non-issue. It's been found that grass-fed cows rarely need to be pumped full of antibiotics since grass itself has medicinal properties.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    35. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by asm2750 · · Score: 1

      I for one will be happy when the old angry people born before 1980 are dead.

    36. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      It's political not because it saves energy and is good for the environment all around, but because those fuckers on the hill are making sweeping legislation without caring for the poor that can't afford the bulbs. Mass production and R&D funding is providing improvements along with dropping the price, but essentially it was a giant corporate tax to bootstrap their industry. There was absolutely no reason for this transition shock. There was better ways of handling this, but the millionaire politicians didn't care as they could afford said bulbs.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    37. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Amusingly, the bulk commercial/institutional users still don't give a fuck. Just stay after hours at any giant cube farm or similar and you'll see the janitors shoving around garbage cans full of old tubes, half of them broken, without the slightest concern...)

      Indeed. I was contracting at a big international company in Europe. All got through LOTS of tubes. German subsidiary had to pay big Eco taxes for wasted ones. Solution? Shipped them back to French sister co where they threw them into the trash for pennies.

    38. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by afidel · · Score: 2

      That divide is also a bunch of BS pushed by the pro-business wing of the GOP, many conservatives have no problem with environmental protection, in fact one of the stalwart conservative groups, the NRA is one of the largest funders of environmental conservation projects on the planet and helped pushed through a voluntary tax on hunting related items that goes to fund federal conservation projects. I'm fairly liberal but I'm also a card carrying NRA member because I believe in both their protection of the second amendment and their conservation work. Another example is the Boyscouts of America, hardly a bastion of liberal thinking you'll find that they have more than a few members concerned about environmental issues and pro-conservation.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    39. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not really, I think the main thing is that CFLs are inferior as a light source. They are not instant on (even the fast ones start out darker than after they warm up). They sometimes flicker, they are unsuitable for temperature extremes (oven light = melting, outdoor in winter = takes 15 minutes to reach full brightness).

      I like LEDs, except they aren't a plug-in replacement for incandescents either as the light is directed rather than omnidirectional, which leads to dark corners. As such my kitchen light has 2 LEDs and one CFL, because with 3 LEDs the room just looked dark. If the lighting is designed around LEDs, then it works really well, however.

    40. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      I see a flicker from florescent lights. CFLs and bar style. Bugs the crap out of me. Had to switch to torchiere style lights so it at least bounces off the ceiling first.

      Um, what does "bouncing it off the ceiling" do to reduce flicker?

    41. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      I for one will be happy when the old angry people born before 1980 are dead.

      Get off my lawn!

    42. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Slalomsk8er · · Score: 2

      There is a difference in the milk but I would never drink black market milk unpasteurized. Here in Switzerland there are a lot of people that buy there milk directly at the farm and bring it to a boil before consumption. It makes a big difference in taste and consistency to the UHT, PAST and homogenized crap you can buy in the shops. Maybe you need to check some more sources about the milk thing, it is not as black and white as you paint it.

    43. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if it's mitigated by the filament's thermal capacity, it doesn't oscillate then does it?

    44. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the government did that because PEOPLE wanted it. They didn't want mercury in their food supply, they didn't want it in their kid's nervous systems, etc. Most of the time the government won't do something for the people unless someone pushes them to do it so don't make it sound like the big old mean gubbament woke up one day and wanted to take your toys away.

    45. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they're free of flicker and buzzing, are instant-on even below 55F, don't cost >$20 each, and are dimmable, I can't see anyone complaining.

      Depends on the colour. I have a bunch of CFLs - some cheap ones, which are just nasty, and some nicer ones, but even the nice warm white ones don't have the same richness of tone as an incandescent. I can cope with them, although I see the difference. My wife can't stand them - to her, all CFLs look grey.

    46. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? People have hated florescent bulbs for as long as I can remember. The reasons varied, but for the most part people hated them.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    47. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by prefect42 · · Score: 1

      Run that 92 octane leaded gas in your new car and you'll burn out your exhaust valves, because it will still be burning when the valve opens.

      You will, but because of differing flame speeds, not because of the octane rating which is unrelated to flame speed. You can merrily run BP Ultimate 102 RON in a modern engine.

      --

      jh

    48. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "They cause me headaches over a long period of time." Man, you lost the evolutionary battle. You are a weakling. Getting headaches over flickering florescent lights when you can buy a good one any moment and blaming it on tech. You sir, does not make sense.

    49. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by CnlPepper · · Score: 3, Interesting

      He said mitigated, not prevented. I've (unintentionally) measured the oscillating light output of an incandescent while I was developing an optical trigger circuit for my last job, the intensity dropped by ~20% for this particular bulb (20W desk lamp) during the AC zero crossing. The flickering was 100Hz (funnily enough) - higher than most peoples' periphery will notice.

    50. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Insightfill · · Score: 2

      The bulb backlash is driven mostly by a political divide. The US is very much a two-faction country, politically - the liberals and the conservatives, represented by their respective political parties. Environmental causes have long been seen as a very liberal thing, so those on the conservative faction feel they are obliged to downplay the issue and oppose any solution.

      Funny enough, environmental causes USED TO BE a conservative position. The EPA, for example, happened on Nixon's watch. Of course, neither Nixon nor Reagan would survive a Republican primary today. Today's US conservative movement might be more accurately called "reactionary", they're so far to the right. A US liberal would be center-right in Europe.

    51. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by darkmeridian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Democrats in the United States are actually centrists by the standards of most countries. The liberals in America don't have any political power while their far-right counterparts have completely taken over the Republican Party. Look at the "socialist" health care plan passed by the Democrats. The heart of the plan is the very conservative idea of individual responsibilityâ"the individual mandate was a conservative idea until the Democrats embraced it, at which point it suddenly became a socialist plot against Americans. A true liberal would have pushed for a one-payer system.

      And so it goes.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    52. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by DdJ · · Score: 1

      Or those people who often buy unpasteurized milk on the black market. Because they claim it tastes better and has nutrition. Does the difference in taste and a minor improvement in nutrition outweigh the serious illnesses you can get from it?

      There's actually a good compromise on that one, that I wish more milk producers would take up. Alton Brown has discussed it.

      There's more than one way to do pasteurization. You can do it very briefly at a very high temperature, or much longer at a still-high-enough-but-not-as-high temperature. The very high/fast method is cheaper for industrial dairies to use because it cycles milk through in seconds rather than in something like a half hour, but it breaks down a ton of the safe but more complex compounds in the milk -- you're cooking the milk! The slower method still kills everything, but leaves considerably more of the complex organic chemicals intact, so it tastes more like milk when it's done.

      I'd love to find a local organic dairy farm that uses the slower method. I would in fact pay more for that product.

    53. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by timeOday · · Score: 2

      How cheap is it? I would love to light my livingroom with large panels of not-very-bright material. Light from a point source is so harsh. I tried to fix this with a light that shines up and bounces off the white ceiling, but that isn't quite right either.

    54. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unpasteurized milk in urban supermarkets would be a health disaster.

    55. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Actually on the gasoline you are wrong about the purpose of leaded gasoline and octane. The flame speed in the regular 87 octane pump fule and 100LL avgas is basically the same at the same compression ratio. What higher octane provides is better resistance to detonation or preignition. When there was the switch from leaded to unleaded fuel engines did have to get detuned as they couldn't run as high of compression ratios as they use to because of the preignition problems. Leaded fuel did provide protection for the valves and valve seats as it would deposit lead on them that would also wear away and when the switch to unleaded happened problems with valve seat erosion started happening but that was cured simply by installing hardened valve seats when doing the next valve job. You can run leaded fuel in a modern vehicle and you won't have issues with burned valves but may end up fouling the spark plug with lead and will poison the catalytic converter. If you want you can even get some really high octane unleaded fuels like the 100 octane non-oxy gasoline that one station near my house sells, but that is a bit on the spendy side (about $5 a gallon now) and you can't pump it directly into a modern gas tank (larger nozzle) but is works great in small engines where they will sit for a while unused with fuel in the tank.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    56. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Right, because what angry old person doesn't want to see mercury buildup in our landfills?

      Us angry old people have been hoarding incandescents until CFLs are replaced with something more reasonable. As it's not clear yet that LEDs are that replacement, it's good to see new emerging technologies.

      Even old people set in their ways want to see CFLs go away. No mystery there.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    57. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by ByOhTek · · Score: 2

      A lot of other bulbs, including modern incandescent, have plastic parts. So long as the plastic is high enough temperature compared to (a) the normal operating temperature with a decent fudge-factor for higher-than-normal temperature use and odd situations, and (b) if possible, tolerance for temperatures seen if there is a short... why not?

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    58. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by OrigamiMarie · · Score: 1

      It's more than the symbolism. A few things here:

      * At least for some people, the CFLs are noticeably worse than the old tubes. Don't know why, but my husband gets headaches really quickly (we're talking about 2 minutes or so) under CFLs, but only finds the big ceiling lights to be sort of annoying (unless the ceiling lights are flickering, those are terrible).
      * One could avoid CFLs before, by not buying them for the home, and mostly only going out to restaurants and such that used incandescent bulbs (which most restaurants did, because they are cheap and provide pleasanter ambiance than cafeteria lighting). Now, the list of restaurants we can't go to is ever-increasing, because they are switching. That is an every-week kind of change in life. And legislation is working on making it so that home has to be unpleasant as well . . .

    59. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by operagost · · Score: 1

      You're making two stupid assumptions: One, that older people are conservatives; and two, that all conservatives oppose environmental concerns. These are both wrong. There are many senior citizens who were progressives when FDR was in the White House and they're still progressives. Also, conservatives are more conservationists than environmentalists, in that they are concerned about the environment but prefer using government to actually protect the environment rather than use the bureaucracy to attack companies and individuals or support other progressive ideals in concert.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    60. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by operagost · · Score: 1

      Keep telling yourself that. You clearly have no idea that "Republican" is not a synonym of "conservative".

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    61. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incorrect:

      The Democrats in the United States are actually centrists by the standards of most countries.

      Correct:

      The Democrats in the United States are actually centrists by the standards of most Western European countries.

      Not offering an opinion on whose are the "true" liberals, just reminding you that the world is a bigger place than you implied with that comment.

    62. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      I try to stick with 3500K CFLs; the 2700K are too depressing (like old incandescent lamps) and the 6000K lamps make people look sick. Plus, color rendition under the 6000K lamps is as bad as the 2700K lamps, but different. The 3500K lamps are not perfect but being closer to a true white they are the best CFL solution I've found. Unfortunately, the "true white" lamps are less common than the "soft white" and "daylight" color temps, especially when it comes to higher output bulbs.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    63. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      I don't really think there are very many opposed to conservationism. Conserving energy saves money. What they are opposed to (and this is a libertarian thing, btw) is government telling us what thou shalt do or shalt not do.

      That and of course red tape. There's a thing in rural areas where if you find a squirrel with some strange spots, kill it and bury it before somebody sees it, or else suddenly you'll find that you don't own your property. These same people appreciate wildlife and all that, which is why they live in rural areas, but the endangered species act is mostly BS.

      That, and cap and tax. It's been proven time and time again that exchanging "carbon credits" doesn't actually accomplish anything, and if anything closely resembles the older days when people used to buy indulgences from the church. And Al Gore, easily one of the biggest energy users on the planet, telling us we need to use less energy while buying carbon credits from himself....yeah....no.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    64. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      You should try some different bulbs... I live in the Denver area, and I have a CFL on my porchlight that lights up instantly every time, no matter how cold it is. Different brands can make a lot more difference than they should.

    65. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also the government that has to clean up the land fills and ground water when they get sued for letting people dump so much mercury into them.

      Do you have proof for this claim?

    66. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by spoilsportmotors · · Score: 1

      If you lived in Ohio, you could be drinking this now.
      Sadly, I don't live nearby either.

    67. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Well, think of it from his point of view. You wanted to shit INSIDE your house.

    68. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Immerman · · Score: 2

      True, but the amplitude of the oscillation is much less for incandescent since the filament barely starts to cool before the next pulse hits it. As for LEDs, where are you getting that 500Hz number, or is that a typo? A trivial circuit such as often used for Christmas lights will strobe at the power frequency of 50/60Hz - easily visible as "strobe trails" if you wave your hand quickly without other light sources. A slightly more expensive circuit including a full-wave rectifier (4 diodes) will double the frequency and improve the duty cycle dramatically, making the strobing far less apparent. Adding a decent-sized capacitor can then reduce the strobing to an intensity ripple much like incandescents, though capacitors do tend to be considerably more expensive and less durable than a rectifer.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    69. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. There will be a new tax on bus fares to pay for CFL entitlement programs.

    70. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem is that CFL's do color banding, whereas incandescent is full spectrum. So even if the color profile is tuned to a reasonable value, it's still lacking output in fairly large color bands. Which, incidentally, is probably why your wife doesn't like it... women are more likely to have better color sensitivity than the average male, especially in the red/green bands

    71. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by swb · · Score: 1

      My luck with CFLs in cold weather has been great.

      11 years ago my wife convinced everyone on our street to put out these cheesy plastic candles at Christmas. She and a neighbor went and bought like 40 of them for the whole block. Out of the box the candles used some kind of small, 20w incandescent bulb. As luck would have it, our candle's socket was broken. I replaced it with a regular socket and put a CFL in it (15w? I forget).

      That bulb is STILL in service and lights perfectly, even on nights below -20 F.

      I eventually replaced all my outdoor lighting with CFLs and haven't had any problems. Many are real dim when they first come on if it is very cold, but always warm up and provide the same light they did in warm weather.

      And I'm not particular about bulbs, either --- whatever's the low cost brand at home depot.

      And strangely, I've had more problems with CFLs IN my house than outside my house.

    72. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "I see a flicker from florescent lights."

      can you feel the wifi signals messing up your chi as well? *cough*BULLSHIT*cough*

    73. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      That said, I never could understand my mom's dad, who was dead set against getting indoor plumbing. Even after my uncle built a bathroom, Grandpa still went out in the snow to the outhose.

      After decades of going outside to poop, you want him to start pooping inside the house? You don't poop in the house!

    74. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Immerman · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Price is a red herring - CFL prices have actually fallen to the point that they're cheaper than an equivalent-duration worth of incandescent bulbs: $1.50 for a CFL that will last longer than five $0.30 bulbs. And that doesn't factor in the fact that the CFL will only consume about $7 worth of electricity over its life, whereas the five bulbs would consume $20+. The poor actually come out ahead dramatically buying CFLs - the energy-bill savings from the first CFL they buy will pay for the next eight.

      Bulbs are only cheaper when all you're looking at is the immediate sticker price, which is precisely why legislation was needed. People tend to not think in terms of amortized cost, and those amortized energy costs also happen to be intimately tied with a range of nasty environmental impacts that everyone will eventually have to pay for.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    75. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I'll agree that carbon credits don't accomplish much - too many loopholes rendered them toothless. On the other hand a perfectly straightforward, zero-exception carbon tax could be immensely effective at motivating emission reductions, but that was pushed off the table almost immediately.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    76. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wish in one hand shit in the other and see which one fills up first.
      I don't need forced auto insurance you can buy uninsured motorist coverage if you were worried about it. Recycling is a great Idea if you make me do it instead of someone else. light bulbs that are 5 times the price not ever going to come down in price as long as were forced to buy them.

      But a country where guns are safe and pot is a crime what do you expect.

      All example of elected officials bought lock stock and barrel by big business. Nothing else.

      Of course coward post likely will never see the light of day.

    77. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by operagost · · Score: 1

      Kids now never learned to do math. 30 year olds cut off at 1982. By the way, your mom's calling you out of the basement-- it's time for dinner.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    78. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by afidel · · Score: 1

      The one advantage that a carbon credit scheme has over a phased in tax is that you'll get some immediate buyin and corporate capture with a credit scheme. IE if a company can see a profit from selling off credits this quarter they'll probably make the economic choice to implement the necessary changes whereas if you have a graduated tax they may just see it as something they should try to outwait (ie we'll buy some senators next cycle that will squash this thing before it affects the bottom line too much).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    79. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Is a slightly better smell while filling your tank worth having hazardous chemicals in the air, and a residue that can get on your hands that is harmful as well?

      What, like the benzene used to replace TEL? The stuff that's a class-A carcinogen, with an MSDS that basically says "run away while you still can"?

    80. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by dywolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      only true if the bulb actually lasts as long as its supposed to.

      i've had incandescents last years.
      i've had cfl's last months, even weeks.

      guess which one is easier on the bank when you have to replace it early and is beyond the store's replacement time limit, even with a receipt?

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    81. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the milk is a bad analogy. It only affects the person consuming it, unlike low power light bulbs or leaded gasoline. If someone wants to eat something that is potentially hazardous, that's their business.

      Milk is not a bad analogy at all. One of the diseases killed by pasteurizing milk is tuberculosis, which can be transmitted from person to person. The CDC takes cases of TB pretty seriously.

      Drinking non-pasteurized milk is an exercise in stupidity and risks fellow humans' lives. It is arguably worse than not vaccinating.

    82. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Guns are extremely safe if you are not standing at the business end.

    83. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. If the cows are grass fed and not raised in a factory style setting, it's a non-issue. It's been found that grass-fed cows rarely need to be pumped full of antibiotics since grass itself has medicinal properties.

      You must live in a city. I've seen the scenario you suggest above (my grandparents were dairy farmers, grass-fed cows and no/minimal antibiotics), and there's no chance in hell I'd ever drink non-pasteurized milk (hint: cows crap and sit wherever they want, and sometimes in the same spot.) Read the Wikipedia page on pasteurization sometime.

    84. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by notmyusualnickname · · Score: 0

      Presumably, some photons take a different - longer - path to reach his retinas; enough to at least reduce the flickering.

    85. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      I hate direct source lights as well, they irritate my eyes terribly. All of my lights reflect off a matte white or eggshell surface.

    86. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Bullshit.The us has a political divide. There are the right wing conservatives, and the ultra right wing regressives. Its just that the conservatives like to call themselves liberal and the regressives like to call themselves not insane.

    87. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      As a grumpy old man, I say bring up a CFL replacement quickly.

    88. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      My CFLs burn out extremely quickly.

    89. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      ...my having an eye operation that cured my lifelong nearsightedness and my age related farsightedness...

      Lasix?

      How bad nearsighted? Much astigmatism?

      Are you able to see without reading glasses with the age related farsightedness?

      Looking into it myself, but wondering if it is worth it to only end up wearing thinner glasses or having to still reach for readers when I want to look at something close up...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    90. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Or those people who often buy unpasteurized milk on the black market. Because they claim it tastes better and has nutrition. Does the difference in taste and a minor improvement in nutrition outweigh the serious illnesses you can get from it?

      It would be nice if we, as grown adults had the CHOICE on whether we wanted to buy and consume this legally...eh?

      I'd love to have access to some cheese products made from unpasteurized milk....like they have in Europe.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    91. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ah, my mistake. I didn't realize his house had 400-mile ceilings. (186000 miles/sec, divided by 240 half-cycles per second to map maximum to minimum-intensity phase, divided by 2 because it's a round trip.)

      There is no way that bouncing light off the walls can reduce flicker, unless the flicker is in the megahertz range (in which case it WILL NOT be perceptible), or the walls are coated with a phosphor that has significant persistence. (And even in that case, the light isn't "bouncing" off the walls, but being absorbed and re-emitted.)

      In fact, if GGP's golden eyes were truly that sensitive to flicker, I'd expect bouncing the light off the ceiling to make things worse, because then the flickering light would completely fill his peripheral vision, which of course is far more sensitive than central vision to flicker and motion.

    92. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Fned · · Score: 1

      Does the difference in taste and a minor improvement in nutrition outweigh the serious illnesses you can get from it?

      Shouldn't that be up to the people consuming it? It's not like CFC bulbs or leaded gasoline where it hurts people that aren't consuming it on purpose.

    93. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Firehed · · Score: 2

      Sounds like you've never fired a gun when you weren't holding it correctly. It's easy to do some nasty damage to your wrist or shoulder by simply having a bad grip. You can also get some fun burns if hit by a spent shell being ejected, depending on the size of the round.

      Doesn't compare to what the other end of the thing can do, but still... they're pretty dangerous from every angle.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    94. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      My luck with CFLs in cold weather has been great.
      â¦.Many are real dim when they first come on if it is very cold, but always warm up and provide the same light they did in warm weather.

      Apparently, it hasn't been great. His complaint is exactly that they take a while to reach full brightness, which is what you're saying too.

      (I'm not saying I agree.. I don't live in 'the cold', and from the various responses to these threads, apparently different brands matter a lot.)

    95. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      without caring for the poor that can't afford the bulbs.

      Umm, the bulbs SAVE money in the long run. If you can't afford the 'huge' outlay for a couple of bucks light bulb, there's a real problem.

    96. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by webnut77 · · Score: 3, Funny

      You also can break a blood vessel while picking your nose if not done correctly.

    97. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i've had incandescents last years. i've had cfl's last months, even weeks.

      Try comparing averages instead of extremes next time.

    98. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      That, and cap and tax. It's been proven time and time again that exchanging "carbon credits" doesn't actually accomplish anything

      Citation?

      California recently had its first sale of the pollution credits. Part of the money goes to the state (to pay for further environmental upgrades), part goes between the companies that sell the credits. The amount of credits goes down IIRC 3% a year, so companies have to either buy credits, or make environmental improvements, then they can sell credits to other companies and make money.

      How is that not a perfect supply/demand solution to solving a problem? Companies that do better than required make money, plus they're saving money in the long run due to the environmental improvements.

    99. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dimmable LED's often use PWM to do their dimming, at a frequency in the 500Hz+ range. Maybe that was what he was referring to, although I don't think you'd end up with a noticeable flicker at that frequency. Maybe, like you mentioned, he saw some christmas lights and thought that was how ALL LED's were....

    100. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by webnut77 · · Score: 1

      Last sentence of TFA:

      He also has great faith in the ability of the new bulbs to last. He says he has one in his lab that has been working for about a decade.

      Which of course doesn't mention the stability of the light output over time or the similarity of this one to the production model, but it's at least theoretically possible.

      So he's been sitting on this invention for ten years? Doesn't sound logical when there's money to be made.

      I probably should have read TFA.

    101. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I think the milk is a bad analogy. It only affects the person consuming it, unlike low power light bulbs or leaded gasoline.

      No, it's a actually a pretty good analogy. Light bulbs mostly affect the person using it, too. I mean sure, there's some slight externality in terms of power consumption on the grid, but there's a slight externality for somebody dying, too, in terns of the effect on society, on companies that the person previously bought stuff from, etc.

      The major claimed externality for light bulbs—pollution—is pretty much bogus for two reasons. First, the impact of household lighting on power consumption is peanuts. In 2010, it was supposedly about 5% of total electricity consumption. So even if you cut it in half, you cut consumption by less than the projected increase in power consumption between 2011 and 2012. Congratulations. You made a "difference". In a year, that difference basically evaporates, because very little of the annual growth is caused by new households.

      Second, residential light bulbs are very nearly irrelevant as far as pollution is concerned anyway. During the day on weekdays, when power usage is at its highest, people aren't home, for the most part, so they aren't using lights (and often aren't using them even if they are home). Businesses use lights, but they moved to fluorescent lights years ago for the cost savings. During the evening hours, when residential lighting is used most heavily, you're down in the base load territory, with much of your power coming from things like nuclear and hydroelectric power plants whose power output can't be reduced as easily—power that would simply be wasted if it isn't used. (This isn't true everywhere, of course, but it's true enough on average to make the environmental argument mostly moot.)

      By contrast, moving to superconductive power grids would reduce power use by a high single-digit to low double-digit percentage, and would do so as an ongoing percentage of the total, no matter what the total is, and would reduce losses from both the base load and peak usage. That's a far more useful improvement than any consumer regulation ever could be.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    102. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      As compared to CFLs with mercury? Or LEDs with all sorts of carcinogens plus plastic?

    103. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the bulbs are cheap and they pay for themselves inside of 2 monts of electrical billing,at least they did at my house. Found a deal on them around 4 years ago at the local hardware store and replaced all 20(4 100w and the rest 60w) bulbs that feed off my bill in the apartment in one go. Very big drop in power consumption with 4 23w and 16 13w bulbs.

    104. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      The heart of the plan is the very conservative idea of individual responsibilityÃ"the individual mandate was a conservative idea until the Democrats embraced it, at which point it suddenly became a socialist plot against Americans.

      You are mixing two very different things. How is the individual mandate related to individual responsibility?

      I am for individual responsibility -- it's an individual's responsibility to GET THEIR OWN INSURANCE.

      BTW, I voted for Obama, even though I *disagree* with his views on health care (and a lot of other things), precisely because he isn't a hypocrite about health care (and a bunch of other things) like Romney is.

    105. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      One, that older people are conservatives

      "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
      misattributed to Winston Churchill, at least according to Wikipedia.

      (I don't actually believe the quote, since brains obviously is always more important, but it is a nice saying.)

      There are many senior citizens who were progressives when FDR was in the White House and they're still progressives.

      Wow, you know 132+ year old senior citizens?

      (just kidding)

    106. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      I think the milk is a bad analogy. It only affects the person consuming it, unlike low power light bulbs or leaded gasoline. If someone wants to eat something that is potentially hazardous, that's their business.

      It affects me, because I'm being forced to subsidize your insurance. (Just like I'm fine with you riding a motorcycle without a helmet if I don't have to pay to scrape you off the road.)

    107. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by RealGene · · Score: 4, Informative

      Only the oldest CFLs used a magnetic ballast at line frequency; virtually all on the market today use a high frequency (> 10 kHz) switching supply to in order to reduce the size and cost of the transformer.
      If your CFLs are perceptibly flickering, it is due to some other device affecting the power quality (large appliance motors, usually).
      Older and "bargain" tube-style fluorescent fixtures use magnetic ballasts, so it isn't uncommon for those to flicker.
      Sometimes perceived flicker is due to vibration (jiggling eyeballs).
      View the light source through a moving electric fan blade.
      If you can see blade images (think wagon wheels in the movies), you have a magnetic ballast light source.
      I'm pretty sure that no human can perceive flicker faster than ~110 Hz.

      --
      Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.
    108. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, as soon as these conservationists figure out how to recycle a carbon nanotube light, let me know.
      Fluorescents are almost 100% recyclable. - including the mercury.
      Liberals have the arguments for everything, and the solutions for nothing.

    109. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A vison of the future is coming to me... I see... Angry old people...Muttering in the aisles at wal-mart...calling their congressman...bitching at dennys...about... what?...I can almost hear it... yes! They're complaining about the phasing out of of the CFL lightbulbs in favor of these new ones... Everything is cyclical, I guess...

      Will your CFL or new Fipel bulbs keep the newly hatched chickens in my brooder warm?

      I want my lightbulbs to convert excessive amounts of electricity into heat you insensitive chicken-killing clod.

    110. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last sentence of TFA:

      He also has great faith in the ability of the new bulbs to last. He says he has one in his lab that has been working for about a decade.

      Which means they need more time to figure out how to infuse it with cheap components that will require you to buy replacements every 3-6 months. No one got rich by building a lightbulb that cost $0.50 and lasted for 10 years...

    111. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Let me emphasize the bad grip as slightly off where it should be. I nearly tore my rotator cuff having the rifle butt accidentally sitting about a half inch off where it should have been because I wasn't paying attention. I've also had a .38 pistol kick up and smack me in the forehead because it was the first time I'd ever fired that monster.

    112. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      Drinking non-pasteurized milk is an exercise in stupidity and risks fellow humans' lives. It is arguably worse than not vaccinating.

      [citation needed]

    113. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by CaptSlaq · · Score: 1

      It's also the government that has to clean up the land fills and ground water when they get sued for letting people dump so much mercury into them.

      Do you have proof for this claim?

      http://www.epa.gov/superfund/ would be a good indication of this.

    114. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by dgatwood · · Score: 0

      Bulbs are only cheaper when all you're looking at is the immediate sticker price, which is precisely why legislation was needed.

      By that same argument, we should pass laws that ban automobiles in favor of public transit. That's a fallacious argument because there are other costs beyond the economic cost that cannot be readily quantified. In the case of transit, that cost is the loss of free time spent while traveling. In the case of light bulbs, the extra cost is in reduced comfort—some people just don't like the light from CFLs. Neither of these is a quantifiable financial loss, but both are real effects.

      The purpose of government is not to be a nanny state that thinks for you; legislation is not automatically called for every time you have a group of people who are too clueless to grasp a simple concept. The purpose of government is to protect the powerless from the powerful, and thus government should interfere in the free market only when a legitimate protective need necessitates doing so, and only to the minimum degree necessary to achieve that goal. The incandescent ban fell way, way on the other side of that line to the point of being downright silly, as though reducing consumer choice were a better way to improve the environment than oh, I don't know, adding restrictions on the use of high-pollution power production....

      It's on the same order of absurdity as the plastic bag bans in California. Supposedly, one of the major reasons for those laws was the amount of plastic bags that ended up in rivers and creeks. So instead of fixing the real problem—the garbage crews who don't pick up all the bits of crap that fall out on the ground whenever they dump the cans into the trucks—they chose to punish everybody else by creating artificial scarcity of a useful tool. (And no, reusable bags are not a viable replacement. I can't use reusable bags as trash can liners. I can't use them to carry containers of berries home from the supermarket. I can't use them as packing material when I'm shipping something across the country. And so on.)

      Laws can't fix clueless or careless, and when they try, they almost invariably do it wrong.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    115. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      "The Individual Mandate" is and has always been a violation of liberty. That some people calling themselves conservatives at one time embraced the idea shows that they were not conservatives.

      A true liberal would have pushed for a one-payer system.

      It depends on what "liberal" means. If it means "classical liberal", a supporter of human rights, then the weasel word "one-payer" (i.e. government) would be rejected outright. If liberal means the modern panty-waist thief so common among Democrats, you're right.

      No man supports the use of force against innocent people, to make them buy insurance or anything else.

      Insurance is for cowards and those out to cheat the suppliers of insurance. Forcing people into either of those categories is profoundly immoral.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    116. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by swb · · Score: 1

      The warm-up period is in single digit minutes, max, even in very below zero temperatures.

      The only place I don't use them outside is in my motion lights. CFLs are poor applications for short-cycle lighting and they also don't come in high enough output. My garage has a 250W halogen motion light and my back door 2x75w floods.

    117. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Governments are also charging people for disposing of fluorescents. In my town it's $1 per bulb, as much as it costs to buy it. Or it's free if you hide it in the rest of your garbage or throw it on a neighbor's lawn. Guess what happens?

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    118. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      No, it happened because noisy, annoying people wanted it, and got legislators to respond without doing a cost-benefit study.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    119. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by robot256 · · Score: 1

      Then the problem is your local politicians and/or voters who don't have the guts to properly fund their recycling program. It's their own fault for creating a negative incentive against efficiency and environmental protection. I'm glad my locality doesn't have that problem.

    120. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      As you point out, the automobile/transit question is far more complicated so not really a good comparison.

      As for governments, I mostly agree, though there's also a good argument to be made for establishing infrastructure and the like. But what about when the powerful threat is not a single large entity, but the collective consequences of minor actions by the population at large? As in this case where we're all going to have to face the severe consequences of global warming together, and we can't hope to mitigate it except through organized collective action on many different fronts. Should we instead just throw up our hands and say oh well, nothing we can do? (if you're an AGW "skeptic" just give me the point for the sake of argument - there's plenty of other similar examples - leaded gasoline/paint/etc for example)

      As for the bag law - look around a walmart parking lot sometime. It's not just the trash collectors, it's people that can't be bothered to make sure all their bags end up in a trash can in the first place, and animals who raid the trash before collectors get anywhere close to it. As for the usefulness of the bags, I agree, but we're in the minority, most bags never get reused. Why should everyone pay in terms of litter, landfill space, and higher merchandise costs for the sake of our convenience? (the store isn't giving bags away for free after all, the cost is just spread across the rest of the merchandise) We can always buy our own bags if we really want them.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    121. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I hadn't thought of that . I would guess that's mostly happening in the efficient dimmer switch rather than the bulb though - I use standard dimmers on LED Christmas lights all the time without problems, even if there is a rather large "off zone" where they're presumably still drawing power. Then again maybe it reduces their lifespan.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    122. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by gmhowell · · Score: 2

      .38 a monster? I'd hate to see you try a 10mm.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    123. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't drink much if any milk any more, but I do remember my grandpa's farm and drinking the fresh, unpasteurized milk. It did indeed taste better. Do vegetables not taste different when cooked? So does milk. But I wouldn't want to drink it from one of the filthy factory farms they have today.

      Out of curiosity, did you ever milk one of the cows? In my experience, it was a common occurrence for the cow to shit and piss in the stall as soon as I set my pail down. The modern dairies that I have seen seem quite clean by comparison.

    124. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      I've (unintentionally) measured the oscillating light output of an incandescent while I was developing an optical trigger circuit...

      That is awesome in a weird way, kudos :)

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    125. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By contrast, moving to superconductive power grids would reduce power use by a high single-digit to low double-digit percentage

      All figures I've seen for transmission loss are on the order of 2-3% in modern, western systems, not all of which would be fixed or removed by a superconducting grid. By your own argument, a couple percent reduction is useless...

    126. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Presumably, some photons take a different - longer - path to reach his retinas; enough to at least reduce the flickering.

      You must have missed that photons are quite speedy... to mitigate a 50 Hz flicker your room would have to be the size of France (or something like that).

      That said, I only notice a 50 Hz flicker if the amplitude difference is large enough. In some gas-based streetlights it's bad, in most bulbs I've used in my house it's unnoticeable.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    127. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's an emzyme in raw egg yolk that kills hangovers, and heat destroys the emzyme. When I was a kid, folks made their own eggnog -- but the FDA did a better job and farmers weren't so greedy that they didn't care of their customers got poisoned. Now drinking home made eggnog is almost certain to give you a bellyache and the runs, and maybe even a hospital stay unless you raise the chickens yourself.

      While I am skeptical of the hangover cure part, as I've yet to find anything that does a better job than a big glass of water before going to bed. That said, nothing much is stopping you from making it now anyways. Most raw eggs are pretty clean in a lot of areas, especially if you don't mash the shell into whatever you are making and the eggs are not several weeks old. Some places used to have issues with eggs having a lot of salmonella, like England, although they have reduced levels by over a factor of ten in the last two decades, and are on par or cleaner than US eggs that tend to be, which have consistently been on the clean end of the scale for some time. Just don't do it if you are high risk group (kids, elderly, sick from something else), and if you eat raw eggs in something like raw cookie dough... don't eat a whole bowl of it.

    128. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see a flicker from florescent lights. CFLs

      No you don't.

      and bar style.

      More plausible.

      Virtually all CFLs use a switching frequency of tens of kilohertz. You cannot see flicker at that frequency. Not even if you're really convinced you do. The sensory cells in your retina simply cannot respond to such high frequencies.

      Traditional 4-foot and 8-foot tubes switch at line frequency (60 Hz in NA). Flicker at that frequency can indeed be visible. However, 60 Hz switching is far from a hard rule for tube fixtures. Modern office lighting uses ballast circuits which (like CFLs) switch at kHz frequencies instead of following line frequency.

      You can easily test whether you're capable of seeing flicker from a light source so long as it's not too bright to look directly at it. Just do that, and rapidly wiggle a finger in front of the light source. If you see discrete snapshot silhouettes of your finger, the light source has visible flicker. If you see a somewhat solid image at the ends of your finger's travel and a transparent, continuous blur in between, the light is either continuous or switching too fast for you to perceive.

      It's much more likely that what you actually do not like is the color spectrum emitted by CFLs, which can be bothersome for some people. There are CFLs with different phosphor compositions which more closely mimic daylight. They usually help with this.

    129. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Centrists? Barely, on the leftist edge of the party.

      OvO hoot

    130. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by cynyr · · Score: 1

      Take a walk to get the mail after getting home from work in January in MN. It was dark around 5PM today here. A minute or two round trip, and you just turned them on in -15F (sometimes down to -35F though that is rare these days) after they had been out for at least 12 hours (if not 24). By the time you get back to the house they have almost gotten to full brightness. A lot of outdoor lighting is short term most of the time around here, motion security lights, mail box runs, taking the dog out, etc.

      Anyways, I agree that for shoveling the driveway a CFL would probably work fine as that usually can take double digit minutes.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    131. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by cynyr · · Score: 1

      I will say that the CFLs I finally put in my kitchen fan/lamp have lasted far longer than the weeks to a month the incandescent lasted. I think it's been a few months. The incandescent didn't like the vibrations.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    132. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by cynyr · · Score: 1

      As a note, last i knew incandescents were not explicitly banned, bulbs below some lumen/watt were banned. Normal incandescents happened to be below that line.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    133. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In both those cases, though, there's a large entity that should be responsible, but isn't being held responsible:

      • For global warming, the power consumption is not the problem. The production methodology is the problem. If our power were produced 100% by solar and wind, with a superconducting grid, there would be basically no additional pollution caused by additional usage (ignoring any pollution caused by the manufacture of the power production and transmission hardware, but at some point in time, that becomes a sunk cost).
      • For plastic bags, it is the responsibility of the property owner to keep things clean. And so on. In both cases, the laws are trying to treat the symptom instead of the actual cause.

      BTW, I can't say I've seen many plastic bags floating around Wal-Mart parking lots. Maybe you just live in an area where people suck. :-D

      You're right about the cost of the bags being spread out across all of the merchandise, of course. But the numbers don't add up for most people. On average, that bag costs about four cents to the retailer. On average, a similarly sized trash bag costs about a quarter. So at about 16% reuse, the grocery bags end up being cheaper. My reuse percentages are at least that high, because I typically pick up plastic bags only when I'm carrying lots of small things and don't waste them on single items or on large items like milk or soda bottles. I certainly can't speak for others in that matter. (Admittedly, this minimal approach to bag consumption is directly correlated with the trend towards self-check registers at stores; baggers at stores tend to overbag; one could probably say, then, that my minimal consumption of plastic bags is caused by me being lazy, but I prefer to put a positive spin on it.)

      Also, the factor of six cost difference between the "free" bags and the bags you actually buy in stores is largely because the actual trash bags are made of thicker plastic and have to be transported across the country inside cardboard boxes that add considerable weight and volume. When you add up the extra fuel burned as a result, even if only a couple of percent of those grocery bags are reused as trash bags, I would expect those anti-bag laws to have an overall negative impact on the environment as a whole. The impact just isn't as visible without the plastic bags floating in the streams, because you can't see global warming. And if you include the additional trash burden from the thicker bags and extra cardboard boxes, the negative impact should be even greater.

      But I digress.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    134. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Fair point, and I use halogens in most places anyway. However, for my bedside table lamp, I prefer a much warmer light, and because of the dimmer, it screams like a banshee if you put a CFL or LED bulb into it. So these days, I take advantage of a really cool trick: three-way bulbs are still available for sale. When I buy 50/100/150 watt three-way bulbs, the 50W side almost invariably blows first. The 100W side is wired to the center pin. Therefore, I have a steady supply of 100W incandescent bulbs. Reduce, reuse, recycle. :-D

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    135. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was using CFL's before congress basically mandated them because they last a long time, but hate the fact that they create mini superfund sites every time you break one.

      They do not do that. Learn:

      http://www.howtospotapsychopath.com/2008/09/04/light-bulbs-of-doooooommmm/

    136. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      Well for starters, carbon credits have already turned into a racket, spearheaded by Al Gore:

      http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/cover031307.htm

      Second, some industries are selling credits for doing literally nothing:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/world/asia/incentive-to-slow-climate-change-drives-output-of-harmful-gases.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

      And finally (I'm only taking a minute here to do this as I'm on a short break, so no time to find the source) some companies have been selling carbon credits for carbon cuts that they already planned on doing anyways just to save on their bottom line by reducing costs. So in effect, the carbon trading didn't do anything at all.

      Also, it is inevitable that you are going to end up with shell companies whose business model revolves around nothing but selling carbon credits. Say for example, a money laundering business that does fake business transactions, has miraculously low emissions as a result, and makes money on the side by selling carbon credits.

      The whole thing is a joke.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    137. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      OK, then I guess I misspoke, because what I'm talking about ISN'T the same as what you're talking about.

      It is "pollution credits" SOLD BY THE STATE, THEN SOLD BETWEEN COMPANIES TO EACH OTHER.

      That is completely different from what you're talking about.

    138. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So he's been sitting on this invention for ten years? Doesn't sound logical when there's money to be made.

      I probably should have read TFA.

      You should instead try learning more about how difficult it can be to take a new technology to market, so you don't make silly criticisms like this one. There's a huge difference between being able to build one-off lab prototypes and a working low cost per unit industrial process to build millions.

      When there are incumbent products which have already gotten over that hump, you have to displace them to succeed, which tends to make it very hard to attract investment money so you can develop such an industrial process in the first place. Once you have that industrial process, you have to pass another funding hurdle to build out a factory to go to mass production. And you need a marketing program, and so on and so forth. It takes a lot of time, effort, and money to succeed at making something really new (as opposed to a refinement of an existing product where all the infrastructure is already in place).

    139. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          Really... :)

          My dad started teaching me to shoot when I was about 8 years old. He handed me his favorite weapon, and instructed me on how to do it right. It was a US Gov't issue Colt 1911 .45.

          It took me a few tries to hit accurately, but at least the first few were close. The only thing that's ever "hit me in the head" was the brass after ejecting.

          It was a while before I shot a 44 magnum. I still haven't had a chance to fire a .50 AE nor .50 BMG, nor any of the legendary elephant guns. I learned a Springfield 03A3 (heavy rifle, steel butt plate) will leave a nasty bruise, no matter how well you hold it, unless you have a padded shooting jacket.

          But back to his story... As an 8 year old, I could handle a .45, .38, and .357. Either he had a shit instructor, or has the strength of a 5 year old girl. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    140. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...

    141. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by buybuydandavis · · Score: 1

      Faster than incandescents.

    142. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by drkim · · Score: 1

      Dimmable LED's often use PWM to do their dimming, at a frequency in the 500Hz+ range.

      You won't see flicker at anything over 60Hz. Houseflys do, though...

    143. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Whiteox · · Score: 2

      Generally they do if you keep switching them on or off. They last a lot longer if you leave them on, but then you burn power for nothing, - which is plain stupid.
      I've had one on for about 2 years in a dark corner of the house. Just failed last week.
      The same brand and wattage will only last a few months in motion sensor sockets.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    144. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Avoid metal dental fillings at all cost lest the radio signal playing in your head drives you insane.

    145. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      That's so cool!

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    146. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baloney. Filament bulbs have many uses beyond making light. Some fixtures just won't work with compact flourescents. CFL's have a spectrum that makes some color choices less desireable. CFL's make gray hair more apparent. Banning incandescents takes away the best configuration which is CFL for daily utility, CFL lights with incandescent fill for entertaining, and incandescent for close observation where spectrum matters and can reveal details.

    147. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yes -- try cooking under CFL or dining... I absolutely HATE those tubes. I want my spectrum to be continuous, thank you very much... sadly, nobody knows and few care about acceptable color rendition.

    148. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      No, not Lasik. I had an infection, and the steroid eye drops prescribed me gave me a cataract in that eye. Cataract surgery involves a lensectomy, where the eye's natural lens is removed and replaced with a man-made lens. The new lens, the CrystaLens, sits on struts inside the lens capsule so it's able to focus like a young person; age-related farsightedness is caused by the lens becoming rigid.

      I was 20/400 before the surgery, 20/16 after (better than normal vision).

      LASIK won't bring your vision to normal if you're severely nearsighted, and it won't stop you from getting farsighted with age, and in fact LASIK will make your age-related farsightedness worse. but the new implant completely cures nearsightedness, farsightedness, astigmatism, and cataracts. Kind of pricey, though, anout $7k per eye. Insurance will cover the old fixed focus lenses for cataract surgery, the ew lens is about $1k more expensive, I had to pay that out of pocket.

      Also, if you're severely nearsighted you're at risk of a retinal tear or detachment. If you're severel nearsighted and your vision worsens or gets funny, get to your doctor immediately.

    149. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Thanks for the info.

      I was considering lasik....they said the newer stuff could help me, and since I have a slightly more thickened than normal cornea that I might be a good candidate.

      Last visit in, they said they just noticed that I was starteing to get some light cataracts. Perhaps I should just wait and if those get worse...look into the procedure you did.

      I'm just very squeamish about someone cutting on my eyes....I've worn contacts for decades and can stick my fingers in my eyes..etc.

      But someone else prying them open while I'm awake and doing stuff...kinda freaks me out....

      But thanks for the info, I may indeed need it.

      :)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    150. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by godefroi · · Score: 1

      If a .38 is a "monster" then there's a WHOLE WORLD of handguns you should never try. Get yourself a good .22LR and be content.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    151. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      It could be it works because of textured coating on the ceiling that breaks up the light, thus reduces the visual effect -- same as it cuts glare from any type of light.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    152. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      So the diffused bag cost pretty much works in your favor. What about everyone else? And what about the other 80+% of your the bags that just become trash? As for the "overbuilt" nature of the purchasable alternatives, I would suggest that absent a large source of "free" bags the free market will provide alternatives if there's substantial demand. After all the factories are already making shopping bags by the billions for other states, not exactly hard for someone to resell them in bundles of a hundred or two to those of us that want them.

      Yes, technically power production is the problem - but surprisingly it correlates extremely closely to consumption, go figure. Sure, if we could switch to carbon-neutral electricity generation tomorrow that would go a long way towards mitigating the problem, but we can't. Best case if we all got our acts together and decided to pay the trillions it would take to update everything at once it would still take a decade or two to get everything up and running. Realistically it will likely take substantially longer. Meanwhile every passing day makes the problem worse. Sure, lighting is a minor piece of the pie, but if we can get a couple dozen such relatively minor fixes in place we'll actually be pretty far along towards solving the problem without resorting to really drastic endeavors. Moreover, the more we can reduce consumption the less new clean generating capacity we have to built, reducing the cost of that endeavor.

      Bottom line, I would *love* to live in a world where large scale (planet/nation/continent) governments were primarily concerned with keeping abuses by the powerful in check. Unfortunately we're faced with a global crisis that we should have been trying to mitigate since we first recognized the danger fifty years ago. Instead we've raced ahead, exceeding even the worst-case scenarios, and now we have to act decisively and collectively at a global level if we're going to have any hope of having a planet that can support anywhere near it's current population in a hundred years. And given how short-sited and disorganized most people are I don't see any way of doing that without some serious ham-fisted top-down reforms and incentives. If you can suggest an alternative I'd love to hear it.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    153. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by ApplePy · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

      Yeah, no shit. Humans have consumed milk raw for how long now? And still do in how many parts of the world?

      I get my dairy raw. I know my farmer. His cows have names. I trust my farmer because he's my friend, and he does not want to poison me. If anything, he takes FAR greater care to produce a clean product than his competitors that just burn out all the crap in pasteurization. His customers pay a hefty premium for that small "craft" production.

      Drinking pasteurized milk is an exercise in futility, as the process kills the beneficial enzymes. But if parent wishes to, go for it, and stay the fuck out of MY fridge.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    154. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, got a few stuck under my body armor once... burns weren't all that serious, but I swear it melted patches of my chest hair.

    155. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Yes, technically power production is the problem - but surprisingly it correlates extremely closely to consumption, go figure. Sure, if we could switch to carbon-neutral electricity generation tomorrow that would go a long way towards mitigating the problem, but we can't.

      The problem is that reducing consumption isn't likely to reduce emissions at all. Here's why: dirty power tends to also be cheap power. If you cut the country's power consumption, the power companies look at their usage and ask, "What capacity should we cut?" When they do, to the extent possible, they cut the most expensive power first.

      The relatively clean natural-gas-based peaker plants are usually some of the most expensive. Nuclear power is up there. Next comes expansion plans for solar and wind power. Coal never makes the cut. So you'd have to cut huge swaths out of the power consumption (as in, determine the percentage of power you get from coal, subtract that from 100, and cut more than that) before you even begin to cut coal-based power production in most parts of the country, except to the extent that laws prevent that from being the case.

      The only good way to reduce fossil-fuel-based power production is by mandating a reduction in fossil-fuel-based power production. That means A. stop approving permits for new construction of coal plants, B. reduce the duration of permits on continued operation of plants after their original design lifespan or stop approving them entirely, and C. set mandatory targets for the percentage of power that must come from clean energy sources by particular milestones.

      There is one other way, of course—set limits on coal mining to artificially raise its price—but that would probably have other side effects that are less than desirable.

      Either way, government action on the production side is the only way those sorts of changes will happen. Anything short of that is like politely asking the sun not to shine or the rain not to fall.

      Sure, lighting is a minor piece of the pie, but if we can get a couple dozen such relatively minor fixes in place we'll actually be pretty far along towards solving the problem without resorting to really drastic endeavors. Moreover, the more we can reduce consumption the less new clean generating capacity we have to built, reducing the cost of that endeavor.

      The problem is that we can't. Except for reduced consumption during the recent economic downturn, the power consumption of the U.S. has grown steadily and roughly linearly for at least the past thirty years. Even if every residential incandescent bulb were replaced by a fluorescent bulb overnight, you would only cause a one-year flat spot in that growth. Even if every residential light bulb were turned off permanently and consumed no power at all, it would only cause about a two-year flat spot. The big gains come from improving efficiency in things that take a lot of power—heating and cooling, manufacturing, transportation, etc., not from nickel-and-diming the folks who are using low-single-digit percentages of the nation's power.

      At some point, it makes more sense to just mandate that dirty power production go away, and let the free market figure out how to do it.... :-)

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    156. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Even if cutting consumption is *all* we do, then we'll still be cutting CO2 emissions -. If we also put in place incentives or penalties to encourage the worst-polluting plants to be the ones shut down first then that's another relatively cheap/easy/small step to cut CO2 even further (not to mention all the other pollutants associated with coal and the like).

      I'll grant you that lights alone won't buy us much, but it's at least a step in the right direction. I'd love to see more substantial movement, but things have to start somewhere, and every little bit helps.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    157. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Glare is not flicker.

      Improving the spatial distribution of the light has no perceptible temporal effect -- again, unless you're working at geographic distance scales.

    158. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The cataract surgery is completely painless except when they're dosing you with eyedrops, and they fill you so full of antianxiety drugs (they call it "twilight sleep"; you're awake but not all that aware) that it won't bother you. In fact, you're advised that you shouldn't drive for 24 hours afterwards.

      They don't use a knife, rather they stick a needle in, shoot microwaves through the needle to liquify the lens, then suck it out, and insert the implant through the needle.

      After cataract surgery, being able to read the clock on the recovery room wall without contacts is just amazing. You need to do excersizes on the eye (if you have the accomodating lens) to strengthen the focusing muscles you haven't used in years for a while.

    159. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing true conservatives are no fans of sugared porridge?

    160. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Yes, but flicker that's broken up might be less annoying -- not the same thing, but the same principle.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    161. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      both? If either costs even 1% of your monthly budget then you have more serious problems to worry about than lighting technology!
      For that matter, even LED lamps are cheap.

      I'll confess to one trick I have used sometimes with clothes and other stuff if it breaks, but I don't have the receipt, and I truly think it's the manufacturer's fault.
      1. I bought an LED light bulb.
      2. I took it home and threw out the receipt or lost it somewhere.
      3. It stopped working in a few days - what to do?

      Simple.
      4. I went to the store and bought a new one of the same make and model.
      5. I took the new bulb out and put it in my socket. I took the broken one out and put it in the new box and took it back to the store with the receipt.

      Is this fraud? I don't know. Perhaps technically, but not in spirit. It *was* their bulb that I bought from *their* store (and recently) that broke.

      Obviously, there are come gochas:
      1. If the products sucks in general, then you don't want to buy more of them to return the existing one. You might be better to hope the cashier remembers you.
      2. If you use this as a scam to return items years later then you are being slimy.
      3. If you use this as a way to return items you bought at different stores, then you are being slimy.
      4. Retailers generally aren't stupid, if you do this all the time, they will catch on. It's smarter to try to hold onto your receipts if possible.
      etc.

      In my case, the new bulb worked fine. I returned the old one for an exchange, and that one worked fine 100. I now have three of them working 100% perfectly, so I think the broken one was some kind of fluke.

    162. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Insightfill · · Score: 1

      Keep telling yourself that. You clearly have no idea that "Republican" is not a synonym of "conservative".

      Point taken - I had combined the two. To be fair, however, the American Republican party has taken the mantle of "conservative" and wrapped themselves in it, even if they're not all sure what it means, either. I used to think that their goal was to take us back to the '50s, but lately it's seemed more and more like the 1850s.

    163. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      I am one of those "old people" but I don't bitch. My comtemporaries though do, I agree. They're still bitching about CFLs replacing the Edison incandescant. Me? I have LEDs all over the house. Love 'em, in fact. Some of the fixtures I built myself, but then again, to live is to hack.

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    164. Re:I am having a vision of the future... by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      New technology is great but it would be even better if congress would stop shoving this stuff down our throats.

      Sorry, but don't quite agree.

      I'm a gearhead car enthusiast,old enough to remember the real crap they were building in the 80s and early 90s. The Auto companies all moaned and pissed about Congress shoving rules down their throats and that 1) they couldn't built them at all that way, 2) te cars would be so expensive nobody would buy them3)the stuff wouldn't work anyway.

      Fast forward and there are cars built today that are better, and faster than even those cars in the Golden Muscle car 60s. Sometimes industry needs a push

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
  2. and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure dropping some darwin-award-eligable teenager from a flying dead cat drone on the light will cause it to break. Or at least I'll watch it at some point on YouTube.

    1. Re:and by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      Nowhere does it says they're unbreakable. Even the summary says "hard-to-break". It just says shatterproof, which is very different from not being able to break it at all.

    2. Re:and by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't even mean that... shatter proof means it wont end up in a zillion razor sharp shards for you to step on. It could still be easy to break. Jello is shatter proof...

    3. Re:and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nowhere does it says they're unbreakable. Even the summary says "hard-to-break". It just says shatterproof, which is very different from not being able to break it at all.

      So these are made out of Vibranium instead of Adamantium then..

    4. Re:and by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Not my Jello. Maybe I should cut down on the glass.

  3. 404 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The linked page to BBC doesnt work - has it been slashdotted?

  4. The Light Bulb Conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder what the lifespan of these bulbs is going to be ...
    The Light Bulb Conspiracy

    1. Re:The Light Bulb Conspiracy by vlm · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wonder what the lifespan of these bulbs is going to be ...
      The Light Bulb Conspiracy

      The developer is promising cheap, hard-to-break, mercury-free, highly efficient bulbs

      Historically the three problems with EL have been color balance (or total lack thereof), lifespan (maybe a year at full power), and surface brightness (like forget "lamps" you'll need to cover the entire ceiling with illuminated panels to get modest room illumination).

      What the developer is promising has been off the shelf for at least 3 decades... What I listed is the really hard part.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:The Light Bulb Conspiracy by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      TFA says the life is good.

      On the other hand, TFA also says, in comparison to CFLs:

      "it is not really accommodating to the human eye; people complain of headaches and the reason is the spectral content of that light doesn't match the Sun - our device can match the solar spectrum perfectly.

      Which sounds like BS. Sunlight (at the surface of the Earth) has a nice smooth output of light in the visible spectrum. It drops off quickly as you approach UV, but is otherwise fairly flat. It's pretty close to a black body at 5500 K. I'm very skeptical that they can match the spectral content of the Sun without a black body.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re:The Light Bulb Conspiracy by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      A year at full power seems fine. Wouldn't that be like 5 years of useful, typical life ie 5 hrs a night?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    4. Re:The Light Bulb Conspiracy by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

      Ballmer in his inimitable way said DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS and it applies to Fipel, too.

      The concept guy, Dr. Carroll at Wake Forest Univ., who put together the physics and shows a prototype is possible, will now be superceeded by designers and developers of products who will have to show a valid cost - benefit analysis and overall usability.

      This is the type of university and private development that makes the world move forward. It is a perfect example of why the government should not predict and pour money into say "CFLs" or "LEDs". Governments rarely make a good monopolistic decision when it comes to goods in the marketplace (including healthcare).

    5. Re:The Light Bulb Conspiracy by vlm · · Score: 1

      A year at full power seems fine. Wouldn't that be like 5 years of useful, typical life ie 5 hrs a night?

      My 30 or so year experience with EL has been in lighted signs. Basically you cut out a stencil and place it in front of an EL panel, and it looks cool, kinda like blacklit, sorta. Also there was a fad maybe 10 years ago with EL nightlights. No, a year of life is not cool for those apps and makes people pretty unhappy until they switch back.

      Even 5 years is pretty sad compared to all but photoflood bulbs.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  5. Great! by rullywowr · · Score: 1

    That is certainly some illuminating information right there! Looks like things are going to brighten up for the lightbulb consumer market.

  6. I'd Light to see that.... by realsilly · · Score: 0

    /sorry for the bad pun.

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
  7. there's something you never see by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Wow, these must be cheap and simplistic if they ended the article with an actual intended release date! That's something you never, ever, ever see with solar panels, magical vehicle engines, and quantum computers. Definitely not....exceeding 90% likely to be vaporware lol.

    1. Re:there's something you never see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      solar panels,

      funny, in my country a report has just been released indicating solar panels are cost-competitive even when dropping all subsidies now, those subsidies will be dropped soon ...

    2. Re:there's something you never see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, these must be cheap and simplistic if they ended the article with an actual intended release date! That's something you never, ever, ever see with solar panels, magical vehicle engines, and quantum computers. Definitely not....exceeding 90% likely to be vaporware lol.

      You are in the wrong place. If you want to know about things with a specified release date you should go down to your local store and ask. They will have all the information you need on things that will be available to you in the next three month.
      Slashdot contains a lot of vaporware by necessity. That is because it deals with things that are in the early research or development stage and quite often such things get scrapped before they reach the consumer.

      Stories like this belongs to slashdot. The things you seem to enjoy is what we call slashvertisments and slashdot is not even a good place to look for them.

  8. Shatterproof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great, how what the hell am I supposed to break and jam into people's eye sockets during a fight? A beer bottle? Lame.

    1. Re:Shatterproof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's still the lamps/shades themselves...

    2. Re:Shatterproof? by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      Could always go Jamie Lee Curtis, in Halloween, on somebody with a coat hanger.

    3. Re:Shatterproof? by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      Great, how what the hell am I supposed to break and jam into people's eye sockets during a fight? A beer bottle? Lame.

      Broken glass from shattered fishtanks.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  9. Re:Cheap by NEDHead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Capitalist: Noun

    1) Some other guy that is making money, while I sit whining in my mother's basement.

  10. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Capitalism is the only reason *anything* is cheap. Capitalism is when then the market (read you & I) control the price, not a central groverening authority. A monopoly is what you are thinking of. As long as there is competition in the marketplace the prices wil alway be as low as they can be.

  11. What is white emiiting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just thought I would ask...

    1. Re:What is white emiiting? by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1

      What is white emiiting?

      Perhaps it's related an olde English discovery?

      Lord Percy Percy: I've done it, my Lord! I've discovered how to turn things into gold! Pure gold!
      Blackadder: You have? Show me!
      Lord Percy Percy: [takes lid off melting pot, and Baldrick, Percy and Blackadder are bathed in a green glow] Behold!
      Blackadder: Percy... it's green.
      Lord Percy Percy: Yes, my Lord!
      Blackadder: Now, look, Percy, I don't mean to be pedantic or anything, but the color of gold... is gold. That's why it's called gold. What YOU have discovered, if it has a name, is some... Green.
      Lord Percy Percy: [removes lump of Green from pot] Oh, Edmund... can it be true? That I hold here, in my mortal hand, a nugget of purest Green?

  12. Oh No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Another example of government regulation killing ^h^h^h^h^h^h driving innovation.

  13. Vision of the future... More hyped vaporware.... by elkto · · Score: 3, Informative

    CFL's suck, they are only more efficient than an Incandescent lamp, which is a fairly easy mark to hit. LED's, though more pleasant to use, are marginally more efficient than CFL's, but not as efficient as a standard T8 florescent lamp (100 Lumens per Watt). Polymer based Electro Luminescence is not new; I am very interested in this efficiency they are talking about (which is painfully missing in the article, 5x more than what????)

  14. Re:Cheap by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've heard a lot of concerns lobbed at capitalism from fellow nerds on here, but never that it didn't make things cheap. At the cost of human rights, the environment, natural resource depletion, sure... but cheap.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  15. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As long as there is competition in the marketplace

    ah yes, the competition-fairytale again.

  16. I knew not jumping on the CFL bandwagon was right! by FofE+IT+Guy · · Score: 2

    In fact I'm still using kerosene lamps 'cause I didn't put no trust in that 'lectric light bulb. Now I can jump right past the incandescent era, the cfl era and even the led bulb and have my new house made of glowing plastic embedded with nano particles.

    All kidding aside this opens up the possibilities of building this into products in new and innovative ways...

  17. Re: Cheap by ByOhTek · · Score: 2

    you and I are the market now? Narrow definition.

    The market that controls the prices also includes the supply chain, and too often in capitalism, there's enough bottleneck-control (i.e. a monopoly) at some point in the supply chain, that the customer/consumer has very little to say in the price.

    --
    Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
  18. At long last. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A house that looks like a set from TRON will be within everyone's reach.

  19. Depends on where they are made. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All CFL's that I find in the stores are "Made in China" if they are made in the US and are as they claim, I'll gladly try one out; and if they have no problems I might even replace all the bulbs in my house. For now I am stuck with CFL's which I'm afraid of. If you break a CFL it is very dangerious. If you are not suppose to vacum how do you get it out of the carpet?

    1. Re:Depends on where they are made. by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      For now I am stuck with CFL's which I'm afraid of. If you break a CFL it is very dangerious. If you are not suppose to vacum how do you get it out of the carpet?

      Full Hazmat suit. Plastic down on all furniture and carpet not affected. Cut out the affected carpet section and seal in approved Hazmat Container. Then after finished transporting Hazmat container to disposal site, full shower while removing Hazmat suit and clothes.

  20. It it *actual* white, ore fake white? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because I don't want a three-thin-lines spectrum piece of shit. It fucks up plant life, circadian rhythms and your skin.

    Otherwise, EL light is nothing new, and forming a bulb out of it is pretty pointless, when you can already make it into any shape you want, and there are much better shapes than a simple bulb.
    But generally, I approve of EL. The technology is nice. As long as they get rid of the annoying high-pitched sound of the transformers. (Even more annoying to dogs who can get really weird and cranky from the constant annoyance.)

  21. not even close to reality by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

    An expensive conducting polymer loaded onto glass coated with ITO which "points the way" toward a usable device is nowhere near the vision articulated in the summary.

  22. Still no Wikipedia article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must be really new tech. I still can't find a Wikipedia page for Fipel.

  23. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    10 Steps To Destroying American Society

          1. Rewrite the Constitution and break down its firewalls through Judicial and Bureaucratic fiat.

          2. Concentrate all meaningful power in the Federal Government.

          3. Suppress and Repress the Individual by attacking his Unalienable Rights through laws and constant torment.

          4. Eliminate Private Property through Confiscatory Taxation and Regulation and wage constant war against Business Enterprises and Entrepreneurs.

          5. Control Institutions of Education at all levels and turn them into Indoctrination Centers for the State.

          6. Change the Citizenry by opening National Borders to virtually all comers and changing the qualifications for Citizenship to include mostly poor, uneducated illegal aliens.

          7. Destroy the Private Financial Institutions that have funded the Greatest Production and Accumulation of Wealth for the Most People the World has ever known.

          8. Destroy Capitalism and replace it with Redistributive Policies by Destroying the currency and Replacing it with a new currency or Revaluing the old currency.

          9. Eliminate American Sovereignty through arrangements and agreements with Foreign Countries and International Bureaucracies.

        10. Use American Foreign Policy not to improve American Economic and National Security, but to advance the Notion of One Government Globalism.

  24. Future technology by mevets · · Score: 1

    The coolest thing is that these things are from 2013; the developer reached into the future and brought some cool tech back in time.

  25. Re:Link to more detailed article by Snard · · Score: 1

    D'oh, I really should read the post more carefully - I somehow missed the link to that article which was already present.

    My apologies for the useless post (and this useless reply - which wouldn't be necessary if /. allowed me to delete my own comment.)

    --
    - Mike
  26. Too late, LEDs are here. by Artemis3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is no longer needed. Some countries are phasing out even CFLs in favor of LEDs, for example China by 2016 won't allow sale of units over 15w. LEDs are already "shatter proof" and they don't carry any gases inside ("solid state").

    China will ban imports and sales of certain incandescent light bulbs starting October 2012 to encourage the use of alternative lighting sources such as light-emitting diodes (LEDs), with a 5-year plan of phasing-out incandescent light bulbs over 100 watts starting October 1, 2012, and gradually extend the ban to those over 15 watts on October 1, 2016. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/05/us-china-light-bulbs-idUSTRE7A40MV20111105

    I have a couple of 10w (4x 2.5w pcs) LED flood lamps, they are too strong for direct lightning but pointing them up allows the light to reflect and diffuse back down nicely. They come up instantly and there is no flickering. Unfortunately they get a little too hot at the base because of the AC/DC transformer, thankfully i'm not enclosing them but overheating could be a problem for others. Perhaps we should adopt some form of DC power distribution inside the house to keep away this conversion from the lamps (and so many devices use DC anyway).

    Have you seen white LED street lamps? I have, and they work perfectly. They are also instant (instead of minutes) and the light lets you see many more colors at night. They are about 80w to 100w, instead of the usual 250w, and happen to last 10x more.

    --
    Artix
    Your Linux, your init.
    1. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      LED lights are still pretty pricy, so if this technology can bring the cost of the lamps back down towards what incandescents cost, there's a use for it. Also, if it's actually "white-emitting" that will be a big improvement since CFLs ain't. Doubt it though.

      Have you seen white LED street lamps? I have, and they work perfectly

      I've seen a lot of partially-failed LED street lamps, which is how I know that the technology hasn't really been refined yet.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by snadrus · · Score: 1

      There have been long Slashdot discussions on DC. If I remember right, DC loses more power than AC on wire runs & has a higher shock risk. USB3 offers a good low-watt (4.5W max) DC power spec with power-saving modes. It requires "intelligent" devices to plug-in to request the power, which shouldn't be a problem nowadays.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    3. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have seen part of a city being lighted by LED as a pilot program. So far, the test is very positive, and I look forward to seeing more place adopting that. Even works fine in the cold of winter (LED work best when their heat is better removed, or so I've read)

      I am also a user of LED lightning at home. In fact, the only non-led lamps I still have are the fridge's as well as the oven's and cooking fan's lights.

      I can't stand the flicker and cold light of CFL -- as well as hating having seen these crappy lights being pushed so much as the environmental choice... And it always sounds like LED is a new technology: it's new compared to the tungsten lightbulb...

    4. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      And it always sounds like LED is a new technology: it's new compared to the tungsten lightbulb...

      The good ones will be new technology. True white LED's were only invented in the lab a few years ago - they're not even available to buy yet (UV/phosophor ones are on the market).

      It's OK, I sent my friend at $bigLEDcompany a link to the Japanese paper last year. ;)

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    5. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Perhaps we should adopt some form of DC power distribution inside the house to keep away this conversion from the lamps

      The problem is with 10W (as 0.625A @ 16V, assuming 4V per LED with 4 LED's) over 100m (50m pair winding through your ceiling and walls via the light switch) of 1.5mm2 copper you've just lost 9% of your power as heat in the cables. 10W at 110V is only 1.3% loss, at 240V its 0.6% loss.

      In short, the closer to the load, the lower the transmission loss.

    6. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not feel the need for a USB enabled light bulb.

    7. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by gnu-sucks · · Score: 1

      It isn't the AC to DC conversion that is releasing the heat. It is the high voltage to low voltage conversion taking the 120 volts AC down to probably 14 volts AC or so (using a transformer, as you pointed out). Distributing DC has its merits, but your example isn't one. High frequency (400 Hz or so) might make more sense for this, since switching power supplies would be simpler.

    8. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      White street lamps may help you see more colors at night, but they're also a very effective astronomer-repellent. If you like things like astronomy, you may want to find out why cities with an active scientific community don't use white lights.

    9. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by hawkfish · · Score: 2

      I've seen a lot of partially-failed LED street lamps, which is how I know that the technology hasn't really been refined yet.

      I've never seen a partially failed incandescent ;-)

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    10. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I've seen a lot of partially-failed LED street lamps, which is how I know that the technology hasn't really been refined yet.

      I've never seen a partially failed incandescent ;-)

      Partially-failed, incandescent-lit sign: commonly seen out front of old casinos. Now: They're all LED-based. And more reliable :)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Too late, LEDs are here. by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      If I remember right, DC loses more power than AC on wire runs & has a higher shock risk.

      You got that completely backwards - AC loses more power than DC on wire runs. That's one of the reasons why the massive very-long-distance lines tend to be DC. I'm not sure about the shock risk, but I don't think it matters much anyway. The biggest issue is that A/C is very easy and cheap to "step down" to lower voltages, whereas it was extremely difficult to do for DC until just recently, and it's still pretty expensive.

      Your USB idea is interesting. I guess you could have a hub in the ceiling of each room, powered by the regular A/C current, then run regular USB cables from that to all lights, and a couple slots on each A/C outlet for other devices. If you connect all the hubs together, it would be awesome for a "Smart Home" - have a server in the basement that controls all your lighting and smart appliances, while acting as a media center and storage for your portable devices. It would be a niche market at the moment, but I could see it becoming more popular in the future. Of course, by then it will probably be a completely different standard anyway ...

  27. Re: Cheap by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    Capitalism is the only reason *anything* is cheap. Capitalism is when then the market (read you & I) control the price, not a central groverening authority. A monopoly is what you are thinking of. As long as there is competition in the marketplace the prices wil alway be as low as they can be.

    That explains why AT&T and Verizon are locked in a constant war of giving customers more services for less cost, right?

    The problem with the "competition will fix everything" capitalist model is that it eschews reality in favor of wishful thinking.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  28. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Riiiight... You are talking about that soft-focused fairy tale of "capitalism" and "the free market"... In which you just as much love to believe, as in other fairy tales like "Jesus", Santa, the "American Dream" or the picture of the "evil Muslim (terrorist)" that is so fashionable right now.

    Until you wake up to harsh reality, where in the US "market" 99% of the people are mere slaves with barely any rights at all, and big companies staying big because -- oh genius plan -- in the US you don’t vote people into office... you *buy* (aka "donate") them into office. No wonder you need all those delusions to keep going on. Otherwise you'd rampage in the streets and burn Wall Street and Washington down.

    Luckily, we over here don't give a fuck anymore. You treated the whole planet like shit. And soon you will be begging, but nobody will listen anymore. So have fun going down the hard way. Booo-hooo.

  29. Re:Cheap by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What would the incentive to make such a device in a non-capitalistic economy?

    I don't think you realize how much cheap stuff we have today in America?

    If you look at prices today and that of 60 years ago and adjust of inflation we will see that a lot of the stuff of the past was more expensive then it is today. Heck we have a lot of things that would be excessively expensive back in the day. Our $200 cellphones would have cost millions of dollars for the same power. And they were paying a hefty price for the normal phones which we would be able to get for under $10.00.

    It isn't that businesses are making things more expensive it is that we as a culture are demanding more things.
    Back in the old days for your monthly bills
    Mortgage, Car, Power, Telephone.
    Today
    Mortgage, Car, Power, Telephone, Internet, Cell Phone, Cable TV, Netflix...

    Expected homes of the 1950 would be small 1000sq/ft homes. Once Car for the family, one Telephone and they will only call rarely,
    For power they would power lights, heat, the refrigerator, washer and dryer, and a TV. All ran on AC power, and most when not in use were turned off.

    If we were to live like we did during the 1950's we would have huge amounts of income stored up more then ever, because we would be living extremely modestly.

    It isn't that things got more expensive they actually gotten cheaper, we just got more things.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  30. Display backlights? Wall-mounted panels? by Mal-2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It seems to me a light source that is inherently flat would be ideal for a display backlight. It probably won't make them much thinner than they already are, but it could make them less complex to produce and possibly more repairable (by replacing aged backlights).

    Also, being able to attach these directly to walls and ceilings rather than mounting brackets or cutting holes for lamps would allow a wider placement of light sources than is currently practical. I'd probably have (at least) one on every wall plus some on the ceiling, to make sure that I could get an ideal spread of light sources for whatever work I might be doing.

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    1. Re:Display backlights? Wall-mounted panels? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      We've already got those... they're called "Plasma Displays".

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:Display backlights? Wall-mounted panels? by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      Every plasma display I've ever seen has taken serious burn-in damage within five years and is completely unusable not long after that. This is damage to the emitters themselves and is not repairable. Even if backlights go through a similar degradation process (and they probably do), it won't be so site-specific and hopefully will be fixable by replacing the part.

      Admittedly I only ever see plasmas in big installations where they're on almost all the time, but using them less only delays the inevitable.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  31. Re: Cheap by MyLongNickName · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Um, no, actually you have explained why having many competitors is a good thing. A duopoly or oligopoly is a limited form of competition where bargaining power is collected with the very few sellers. In cases like this, especially where there is a valuable resource being limited, government regulation is very much appropriate.

    Capitalism, overall, is a very good thing and is responsible for our standard of living. It does not mean that it should be unchecked despite what our libertarian friends might think.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  32. Government regulation by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

    You mean they actually came out with better light bulbs? I thought government regulation of light bulbs was going to destroy the industry and cause untold damage! You'd have thunk!

    1. Re:Government regulation by NewWorldDan · · Score: 1

      Don't be retarded. New bulbs were coming with or without government. All regulation did was take away the bulbs I prefer before an adequate substitute was available and affordable. Except I went out and bought a four year stockpile of my preferred bulbs so I'm fine. I tried CFLs. They suck. They're slow to reach full brightness and they don't last any longer (in most cases, they die much faster than incandescants). I like LEDs, but they're expensive and they don't adapt very well to traditional bulb formats. And this new format doesn't actually exist yet. When it shows up at the hardware store, I'll check it out. And if I like it, I'll buy it. Free markets at work.

    2. Re:Government regulation by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

      Can you prove the new bulbs were coming out anyway? There was a pretty long stretch of time when there we're new light bulbs coming out.

      It sounds like your belief in free markets is a matter of faith.

  33. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, human rights, the environment, and natural resource depletion are sacred cows in communist countries.

  34. Cheap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given that these things include ITO (indium-tin-oxide) and an Ir-based polymer, I'm curious as to how "cheap" these things are likely to be.

    Not that the technology isn't interesting... or that they may be reformulated to use less exotic materials. But that's not mentioned anywhere.

  35. Re:Vision of the future... More hyped vaporware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    CFL's suck, they are only more efficient than an Incandescent lamp, which is a fairly easy mark to hit. LED's, though more pleasant to use, are marginally more efficient than CFL's, but not as efficient as a standard T8 florescent lamp (100 Lumens per Watt).

    Depends way too much on the LEDs and "standard" lamp to make a meaningful general comparison; both of them are phosphor-based devices, which gives you a tremendous amount of latitude in trading spectral quality for efficiency.

    But I suspect you're talking about dirt-cheap LEDs made with years-old tech and poor QC to boot, or LEDs stuffed into a CFL-like bad compromise design to shoehorn them into an Edison socket, or even both.

    100lm/W is not hard with current LEDs if you put them in a dedicated fixture, with lots of LEDs driven more gently and cooled adequately, instead of cramming everything in an incandescent form-factor. They're still kinda silly expensive to do right compared with T8 (thus really only applicable when fluorescents are ruled out for some reason -- for now...), but the main takeaway should be: cramming stuff into incandescent-bulb form-factor is stupid, do it right instead.

    I too am looking forward to hard numbers on efficiency and spectral quality. (I'd really like spectrograms. CRI sucks as a metric, but it's better than nothing.)

  36. Re: Cheap by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

    Capitalism is when the market(read you & I) control the price. That is right because you & I do not care at what price that product is made. Nevermind total cost of ownership. Nevermind when the total amount of energy used in its lifetime would make the more expensive one cost far less. Nevermind when the product will break so quickly that the more expensive one would have been cheaper. Nevermind making our foods heathy because it is not our concern how much health care cost. Nevermind how many people we pay at wages far less than the true cost to them because we can not afford universal health care. Nevermind the polution that comes from making this product. Nevermind the cost of disposing the product when it becomes useless. Nevermind supporting the product in the near future so when a cheap part breaks we can sell them a new one instead of repairing the old one. Yes capitalism keeps prices cheap because everyone hopes that they can be treated fairly but at the expense of treating everyone else very poorly.

  37. But at what cost? by garyoa1 · · Score: 1

    Only $500 each but guaranteed to last 500 years. Even tho in reality hold up for about 15 minutes. Here we go again.

    --
    Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
  38. Re:Cheap by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm very pro-capitalism in general, I was just repeating the usual criticisms levied against it around here.

    Also, your logic is faulty. There are choices besides just communism and capitalism. In fact, the examples of the soviet union are probably a better example of socialism than communism, which IMHO is a theoretical system only.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  39. Lumens per watt? by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A "normal" A19 soft white bulb is about 14.5 Lumens per Watt.
    A typical CFL is around 55 Lumens per Watt
    A good LED bulb is around 90 Lumens per Watt (and they're getting better)

    Fipel bulbs are "Highly Efficient".
    Anyone have an idea what that is in Lumens per Watt?

    1. Re:Lumens per watt? by ApodicticAce · · Score: 1

      anyone with access to the paper thereat science direct or

      Organic Electronics
      Volume 14, Issue 1 , January 2013, Pages 8â"18

      numbers would be nice for something like light :-)

    2. Re:Lumens per watt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I contacted them directly.
      The first 3x3" R&D panels made 2011-2012 are getting ~60 lumen/watt at 1000cd/m^2.
      First products targeted at 100-120 lumen/watt, 2k-4k cd/m^2, with 20k hour longevity in 2013.
      Aiming for volume production in 2014.
      We'll see if they can compete with the good quality LED lamps.

  40. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm very pro-capitalism in general, I was just repeating the usual criticisms levied against it around here.

    So you don't actually believe what you wrote? Were you karma whoring or just bloviating?

    Also, your logic is faulty. There are choices besides just communism and capitalism. In fact, the examples of the soviet union are probably a better example of socialism than communism, which IMHO is a theoretical system only.

    Pot, kettle, black.

  41. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you look at prices today and that of 60 years ago and adjust of inflation we will see that a lot of the stuff of the past was more expensive then it is today.

    Have you actually done this? I don't mean the kind of "I like the sound of it so it must be true" hand-waving you appear to be engaging in, I mean really done it: looking up actual numbers, finding a realistic baseline for comparison, and comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges (and being honest about things like relative technology levels)? 'Cause I have, and while you are absolutely correct that there is a lot more cheap stuff out there now, for the level of quality of goods which was considered normal half a century or more ago, most of what Americans buy has never been more expensive.

    In fact, the average American's purchasing power is in the basement relative to what it used to be. We cover this up nicely by importing fairly inexpensive and very low-quality goods so that people can still feel like they've got lots of "stuff," and making it easy to incur a level of debt which was pretty much impossible until fairly recently, but the fact is that for most Americans, they are spending more and getting less for it than they ever have before.

  42. So anyhoo... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Cheap? I'm old enough to remember the electric company giving out free lightbulbe in exchange for your burnt-out ones. It encouraged electricity use.

    Then came the usual corporate-government ripoff partnership where business interests used a left-wing (think: Theodore Roosevelt, Republican) concept of anti-competitive behavior. Phillips sued and a judge, not Congress, decided it shall be illegal.

    Most of you are confused by his post because you were trained in a meme-world based on a traditional left-right political axis, rather than a control-vs.-freedom axis, with anarch and dictatorship, facets of the same disease process, on one end, and a free yet secure state on the other, where neither thug nor government offical may seize yer stuff.

    This has the additional property of good explanatory and predictive power.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:So anyhoo... by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      Cheap? I'm old enough to remember the electric company giving out free lightbulbe(sic) in exchange for your burnt-out ones. It encouraged electricity use.

      I guess it all comes full circle. My electric company gives out new CFLs to its customers.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    2. Re:So anyhoo... by operagost · · Score: 1

      The Pennsylvania power companies, in exchange for deregulation, agreed to subsidize specific CFLs to make them cost $1 to the consumer. They also had set up funds to give people money for their old appliances.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  43. Re: Cheap by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    Yea, in retrospect the government-sponsored duopoly of cellular carriers was probably not the most effective example to open with...

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  44. Re:Cheap by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Heck we have a lot of things that would be excessively expensive back in the day.

    A simple everyday example is food.

    Most food has been reduced to near the cost of the transportation necessary to deliver it to your area. Evidence for this is the large fluctuations in food prices in lock step with fuel price fluctuations. Further evidence of this is that all food conglomerates are now also shipping conglomerates, and this is so because thats where the value creation actually happens with regards to food. The food is worth very little where it is grown and where it is processed because of the extreme efficiencies that we have achieved. It only attains value through shipping. Shipping is where the value creation happens with regards to most foods.

    Yes there are "brand names" that carry a premium, but much like Apple they are essentially niche irrelevant.

    More on topic, this is the historic price of light in terms of median US labor:

    year - hours of work needed to purchase 1000 lumen hours of light
    1800 - 5.387
    1850 - 2.998
    1900 - 0.2204
    1950 - 0.00188
    1992 - 0.00012

    here is the citation for those numbers

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  45. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    11. Post Crazy Rantings as AC on a Computer Network that Never Would Have Been Created in the Private Sector.

  46. Re:Cheap by Moses48 · · Score: 2

    Their house purchasing power has gone up: http://www.nahb.org/assets/docs/publication/fft2001_8142002101506AM.pdf

    Even adjusting for inflation we see that we are better off than historically. http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php I'm just not sure what data you are using to back up your argument.

    We don't have any more disposable income (adjusting for inflation) than in the past, but we have more luxeries and larger homes.

  47. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We would have had computer networks in the private sector... and we did. CompuServe, and The Source comes to mind. Places where you pay per month, you pay per minute logged on, per message sent, per E-mail. Content was predigested stuff from TV, and you didn't post... you requested that the message you were about to write to be posted, provided the company was OK with it.

    Heck with that crap.

  48. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is why the price of text messaging is so competitive, right? An incredibly cheap to provide service that is sold at wildly inflated prices with virtually no realistic price offered by any major carrier.

  49. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Capitalist: Noun

    1) I ignore my advantages and some luck I've had and claim I earned it 100%.

    There, fixed that for you.

  50. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All Hail Capatilism!

  51. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And ironically we are carrying more debt per person than ever before.

  52. Environmental causes are not necessarily liberal by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Environmental causes have long been seen as a very liberal thing ...

    Not really. The National Park system was vastly expanded by a Republican, Teddy Roosevelt. The Environmental Protection Agency was established by a Republican, Richard Nixon. Hunting organizations, whose members tend to lean right, do far more land conservation than any other type of private organizations.

    Certain environmental causes may seem liberal but that has more to do with a specific cause being politicized by liberals not because conservatives are inherently anti-environment. Regrettably both parties tend to automatically contest whatever the other party embraces, it does not matter if the other party embraces something worthwhile.

  53. Re:Cheap by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You're forgetting something - while your thesis that food costs are directly associated with fuel costs is correct, the reason that this is true is because fossil fuels comprise a large portion of the energy budget of food production.

    From a CNN article:

    Doing away with food imports could be seen as understandable if international transport played a dominant role in the food chain's greenhouse gas emissions.

    But in the UK 's case -- where much of the research into the "food miles" concept has taken place -- that doesn't seem to be the case. A sturdy 85 percent of UK food transport-related emissions actually derive from domestic road deliveries according to the DFID. Road freight traffic in the UK grew by 67 percent between 1980 and 2001, with the average journey length also increasing by 40 percent.

    By comparison, international freight contributes 11 percent of UK food transport-related emissions -- that's less than one-tenth of one percent of the UK 's overall emissions, the DFID says.

    Transportation as a whole contributes 2.5 percent of the food chain's emissions, says FCRN. Food refrigeration, on the other hand, accounts for as much as 18 percent (and notably 3.5 percent of the UK 's entire greenhouse gas emissions).

    The whole transport issue initially came to the fore after the "food miles" concept was coined in Europe to illustrate how fossil fuel-intensive the global food distribution network had become.

    But the relative blame that the transport sector should be taking for this is debatable.

    In the U.S., up to 20 percent of the country's fossil fuel consumption goes into the food chain, according to the UN's Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO), which points out that fossil fuel use by the food systems in the developed world "often rivals that of automobiles".

    To feed an average family of four in the developed world uses up the equivalent of 930 gallons of gasoline a year -- just shy of the 1,070 gallons that same family would use up each year to power their cars.

    The average developed world diet uses 1,600 liters of fossil fuels each year, according to the U.S. based Organic Consumers Association (OCA). Only 256 of those liters come from transporting the food, says OCA.

    By contrast, a whopping 496 liters goes into the chemical fertilizers used during the food growing stage, representing well over one third of the food chain's entire fossil fuel consumption.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  54. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's true, for capitalism this is bad, one way t get round it is to destroy production, for instance through military spending. All that energy and steel locked up into fat lumps that sit around all day waiting for a war to kick of so they can break stuff. Hey, it supports the price of energy an steel don't it?

  55. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brought on by artificially low interest rates that helped makes us believe everything was OK. If interest rates ever return to what is a historically normal range watch the carnage that results.

  56. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capitalism is the only reason *anything* is cheap. Capitalism is when then the market (read you & I) control the price, not a central groverening authority. A monopoly is what you are thinking of. As long as there is competition in the marketplace the prices will always be as low as they can be.

    Not so long as there are markets in which items and services are priced at what the market will bear, which produces the opposite pressure on price than competition. Many of these markets are not monopolies.

  57. Re:Vision of the future... More hyped vaporware... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    To me, the meaningful general comparison is what the great unwashed masses are most likely to buy at the value stores, because that's going to represent the largest installed base. And going by what you can buy in blister packs at the discount stores, original poster is demonstrably right on the money.

    Arguably, better products can be purchased at higher prices, and geeks who understand the technology and have the disposable income will buy those. But -- let's be realistic for a second -- that's not what Joe Dirt and his family are going to buy.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  58. 2013 Too late ??? by epSos-de · · Score: 1

    I would say that 2013 is dreamed too soon in this case. It is never too late to compete with LEDs, becasue they are overpriced at the moment. I bet that this guy is not going to sell his bulbs from 2013 on a massive scale, becasue he will need to sell his technology to many factories and then convince the vendors to stock up the bulbs. LEDs needed more than one year to do that and they were invented a while ago already.

  59. Re:Cheap by MightyYar · · Score: 1

    So you don't actually believe what you wrote? Were you karma whoring or just bloviating?

    No - probably just not communicating well. I was just astounded that he was claiming that capitalism would jack up the price... usually you hear people bitching about how it doesn't price in the true cost of things.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  60. Re:Cheap by Moses48 · · Score: 1

    Interest rates went up at the same time square footage went up from '63-'82. '82 the mortgage rates peaked at almost 15%. From 1963-2000 the rates went up and we still saw buying power and house size and amenities increase. What history are you using? The rates were even lower in 1950. We just recently reached as low as they have been, but all my data is during the time in which rates soared. Get your facts straight.

  61. Don't get excited yet... by Covalent · · Score: 2

    ...the plastic uses iridium. That's expensive stuff, even if used in incredibly small quantities:

    http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/iridium/

    Currently over $1,000 an ounce.

    --
    Great warrior...hrmph! Wars not make one great.
  62. Holy crap by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

    From the photos, I'd say this is the holy grail of backlighting for arcade marquees! Cut to the dimensions of your marquee and you have even lighting across the whole image!

    1. Re:Holy crap by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Not to mention their "no heat" claim to be considered for this application.

  63. Re:Cheap by snadrus · · Score: 1

    Back in the old days for your monthly bills
    Mortgage, Car, Power, Telephone.
    Today
    Mortgage, Car, Power, Telephone, Internet, Cell Phone, Cable TV, Netflix...

    Interesting list, but for me:
    no Mortgage, I'm renting
    no telephone for decades
    no Cable TV or Netflix
    I'm considering (like others) to have Internet service through the cellphone only, and possibly going to 1 car for the family, leaving:

    Renting, Car, Power, Internet/Cell Phone
    Where are all these riches you mention?

    --
    Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
  64. I am looking forward to these by kimvette · · Score: 2

    Imagine, the sort of panel lighting you see all the time in sci fi. If they can approximate black body spectrum of an incandescent, this would be amazing. I'd line the bottoms of shelves, and install panels on the ceilings and walls, under the edges of steps, under cupboards, even inside cupboards and closets and have light exactly where I need it. It seems that if this works, you can have light panels you can actually cut to size, which would allow for really creative, ultra-modern lighting installations. I would also install panels on the back of my televisions and monitors to provide ambient backlighting to increase the apparent contrast while watching movies.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  65. Made in USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems like so many of these companies that pick up university R&D will simply take it to China who will then walk off with the tech, and put the American company in the ground. So, if this guy was smart, he will keep it local and choose to export bulbs, rather than import.

  66. Umm.. by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    If someone wants to eat something that is potentially hazardous, that's their business.

    I guess we're assuming this someone has no dependents and has full medical, life, and funeral insurance?

    1. Re:Umm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether they do or not, it's still their business and theirs alone. Nothing can ever change the fact that a person's body is his own to do with as he sees fit.

  67. Lifetime is awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  68. Re: Cheap by PitaBred · · Score: 2

    He's actually correct. The problem is that we don't have meaningful competition in many sectors of our economy, we have industries tied up in regulatory capture (patents, copyrights, etc. overreaching, no-bid contracts, regulatory rules that benefit incumbents, etc.).

    The other issue is that "true" capitalism requires complete, perfect information and zero transport costs for the consumer. I can choose from any supplier with no cost of switching, and I know the full differences between all of them. Given that that is impossible, it's impossible to have proper invisible hand capitalism here in the real world.

    What we need to strive for is making sure the regulations are in place to protect the consumer against information "warfare" from the producers while simultaneously preventing corporations from abusing those regulations for their own benefit. Given the money that flows through government and corporations right now, I'm not holding out high hopes of that changing meaningfully any time soon...

  69. Been around for decades by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    Imagine, the sort of panel lighting you see all the time in sci fi.

    It's been available since the 1960s. Electroluminescent sheets have been around for over 40 years. They're on the expensive side and light output per unit area is low, but they work fine. Some versions last for decades. (Some don't, which is a big problem for permanent installation.) They make good night lights and somewhat dim display backlights.

    Here's a A3 sized white electroluminescent sheet. About 12" x 17", costs $125.

    So this is not a new thing. If the new version is a lot brighter or a lot cheaper, it might be useful. For now, it's another "nanotechnology" materials science article about an interesting lab phenomenon.

    1. Re:Been around for decades by kimvette · · Score: 1

      So, it's usable as a night light, and not much else. In other words, it really doesn't exist as a practical lighting solution yet. Thanks for proving why this development is so revolutionary.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  70. Re: Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Regulated capitalism, yes.

    Pure capitalism gives us the current miserable state of the airlines where a passenger is treated with as much respect as a prison snitch, except the guys meeting Bubba don't have to pay fees to do so.

    Pure capitalism gave us the Gilded Age which worked until the banks failed, and nearly destroyed the country.

    Pure capitalism has given us our beautiful state of telcos and ISPs...

    Pure capitalism has given us our mess of electric problems still in California with brownouts... while companies like Enron made billions, then walked off, leaving their mess on the taxpayers.

    Capitalism + wise government regulation, yes. Either of the extremes (pure capitalism or a command economy), and we have witnessed the failures of either.

  71. "used to be"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny enough, environmental causes USED TO BE a conservative position.

    It still is, and serves as one of the ways (some others: debt, marriage, marijuana) you can tell the difference between a conservative and a Republican.

  72. Both links are down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BBC - 404 - Page Not Found

    ScienceDirect - Sorry, your request can't be processed due to a system problem. Contact the Help Desk if the problem persists. [SD-008]

    Why?

  73. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Capitalist: Noun

    1) Some other guy that is making money, while I sit whining in my mother's basement.

    Capitalist: Noun

    1) I ignore my advantages and some luck I've had and claim I earned it 100%.

    There, fixed that for you.

    The antidote to dishonesty is not more dishonesty.

  74. Re: Cheap by operagost · · Score: 1

    If you think that telecommunications is an unregulated market, you are a friggin' moron.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  75. Re:Cheap by dywolf · · Score: 1

    love it

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  76. Make them high strength glass hybrids by tyrione · · Score: 1

    that way I have no regrets with littering the globe with them. We don't need more petroleum based polymers polluting the globe.

  77. Jesus, are you scared of milk? You're a coward! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or those people who often buy unpasteurized milk on the black market. Because they claim it tastes better and has nutrition. Does the difference in taste and a minor improvement in nutrition outweigh the serious illnesses you can get from it?

    Yes, unless you are such a coward you plan to live your life in a skinner box.

    Every single time you cross the street you put yourself in far more danger than you will drinking raw milk. You do realize millions of people have drunk billions of gallons of it, don't you? You're in more danger from hot dog carts, by far (look it up, seriously).

    Any idiot who thinks they are doing themselves a favor by decreasing their exposure to common bacteria is an anti-science corporate shill.

  78. Re: Cheap by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    Not as much of a moron as someone who posts such a statement, 2 hours after I make that very point myself.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  79. Re: Cheap by dywolf · · Score: 1

    The airlines were already in a miserable state due to the overregulation of the industry (they couldnt even drop unprofitable routes without approval, and frequently were denied that approval). the number of actors was already too small to truly function as a case of pure capitalism. even so, immediately after deregulation profit went up and the industry improved before the industry slid over to the other side of the scale, and became what we know today. and you're specific comment has more to do with the TSA and the magic word Terrorism than the airline industry as a whole. Verdict: Not pure capitalism

    the Telcos and ISPs? Also wrong.
    First telcos: There used to be one. AT&T. with a almost federally mandated monopoly for many years. then that went away but they were already big kahuna so it was too late. then they were broke up. into what were essentially regional monpolies with a few competing long distance providers. Notice, not pure capitalism. Eventually a congress forced all of them to allow competing carriers over their wires, resulting in the explosion of 10-10-220 type long distance companies. An explosion of competition and lower prices resulting from a state closer to "pure capitalism". Then enforcement of that fell off, and the baby bells began buying each other out until finally SWbell bought the others and AT&T itself out, so now there's just one AT&T again.
    Next: ISPs....phone companies covered above. Cable companies? Locally mandated/allowed monopoies.
    Result: also not a result of pure capitalism

    California brownouts? power companies are locally mandated/controlled monopolies. Fraid you miss the mark there too.

    The gilded age? Largely revolved around things related to railroads (another natural monopoly). Steel had just a few big actors. The railroads, same. Still not pure capitalism.

    Overall, your definition of pure capitalism needs work.

    Pure capitalism relies on having -many- actors acting in competition driven by self interest. The fewer actors, the less pure it is, and the more it tends and accelerates towards becoming a oligoploy, duopoly and finally monopoly. A well placed regulation or two can preserve the pure capialism state (see the bit about 10-10-220 long distance competition). A poorly placed regulation can cripple an industry (airlines forced to keep routes that lose money; good for the people served sure..but bad for the industry as they lose money).

    Essentialyl you're thinking of it in terms of a single axis line, with pure capitalism on one side and pure regulation on the other, the two extremes being essentially exclusive. That's wrong. It should be viewed as a 2-axis plot, minimum wont cover 3rd and 4th dimension axis), with capitalism being one axis (pure to monopoly) and regulation being another (good to bad).

    TL;DR: pure capitalism gave us none of those things. Your post is wrong except for the last line.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  80. re Offtopic by jelizondo · · Score: 2

    See a good doctor. Lasik is not for everyone and as they say, your millage may vary.

    I finally decided to see a doctor about it and ended up with intraocular lenses, because I was developing cataracts. Shitty eyes, near-sighted, astigmatism, far-sighted (from age) and then cataracts.

    I have worn glasses for more than 40 years so I decided the knife was worth it, if I could regain some vision even if I had to still use glasses; now I can see far without trouble but still have to get the reading glasses on small print, but I CAN SEE

    See a doctor, it is worth it. You can't imagine how beautiful it is to wake up, open your eyes and see!

    --
    Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. - Cardinal Wolsey
    1. Re:re Offtopic by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Agreed on everything you say. The new accomodating lenses sit on struts inside the lens capsule and allows focus, the older monofocal lenses require reading glasses.

  81. Re:I knew not jumping on the CFL bandwagon was rig by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Did somebody mention innovation?
    Time to resurrect all those expired light bulb patents by adding "from a light emitting plastic" to every claim!

  82. Re:Cheap by NEDHead · · Score: 1

    Capitalist: Noun

    1) Some other guy that is making money, while I sit whining in my mother's basement.

    1a) re product sold by the guy making money: " I could have thought of that if I wanted to"

  83. But but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the end of pro wrestling as we know it! How can you have a light tube death match when they're shatterproof?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAyQ1PvBk2o

  84. Re:Environmental causes are not necessarily libera by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Theodore Roosevelt was a progressive, an anomaly in the Republican party. A bully and a warmonger, it's no wonder he started the National Park System. Nixon's regrettable start of the EPA came about in the following manner:
    _Nixon ended the Vietnam War
    _Leftists, now devoid of issues, thrashed around to find new wounds, and found environmentalism.
    _Nixon undercut the leftists by forming the EPA
    _The leftists temporarily dropped environmentalism like a hot potato because their most hated enemy, Nixon, supported it.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  85. Re:Cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah, the cheapest way to make ammonia (i.e. fix nitrogen) is to strip the hydrogens from methane and stick them to nitrogen, using the heat from burning the methane.

    It would be super easy to turn farm vehicles into ammonia-burners. Belgian buses burned ammonia during WWII.

    But where to get vast amounts of cheap ammonia? We would need lots and lots of heat and electricity.

    Oh well, there's no way to use the strong force to get terajoules of energy out of kilograms of fuel. I guess we're stuck with fossil fuels and we'll have to change our lifestyle when we run out.

  86. RFI? by charlesr44403 · · Score: 1

    Will it generate radio interference?

  87. Depends .... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    It doesn't even mean that... shatter proof means it wont end up in a zillion razor sharp shards for you to step on. It could still be easy to break. Jello is shatter proof...

    Depends on how hard you hit it. I hear Jello shatters just FINE if you hit it fast and hard enough.

    Of course the sharp fragments don't STAY sharp in the timescales involved in stepping on one of them - or even getting to the floor from the "shattering" event.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way