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Inside the Raspberry Pi Factory

Posted by samzenpus on from the take-a-look dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Here's a photo walk through of how Raspberry Pi boards are made at a Sony factory in South Wales, UK. The factory says that the multiple automated and manual checks have meant that only two of the 150,000 boards made there have been shipped with defects."

120 comments

  1. Holy shit by ArcadeMan · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Whoever designed the photo album viewer never heard of XMLHttpRequest.

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    1. Re:Holy shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Nor have I. But I guarantee you I am much, much smarter and richer than you.

    2. Re:Holy shit by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whoever designed the photo album viewer never heard of XMLHttpRequest.

      It's all about "page views", baby!

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      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    3. Re:Holy shit by HaZardman27 · · Score: 0

      Assuming that's even true, the difference is that you are probably not employed as a web developer. It's safe to assume that whoever created the photo album viewer GP mentioned is employed as a web developer, and is obviously not very good at his/her job if he/she can't figure out how to pass content from the server with AJAX. Unless, as someone else mentioned, the point is to inflate page views.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    4. Re:Holy shit by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Am I the only person who misses having the internet viewable without JS? I mean, don't get me wrong, JavaScript can do great things but a lot of the time it really isn't necessary, and often doesn't fall back nicely when JS isn't available.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    5. Re:Holy shit by cheater512 · · Score: 2

      Yes its just you.

      You will always get shit code. Removing JS doesn't help that at all.
      Geocities caused horrible atrocities without any JS.

    6. Re:Holy shit by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      and is obviously not very good at his/her job if he/she can't figure out how to pass content from the server with AJAX.

      And if he were reaaally good at his job, he'd know that you don't need AJAX to swap pictures on screen. (Why did the GGP mention it anyway? I don't get it what it has to do with the task at hand anyway.)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Holy shit by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Obviously, I'm not saying I'd rather see JS gone (well, not without a replacement - JS as a language is ugh), but rather I wish more sites would fall back to a non-JS version.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    8. Re:Holy shit by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      By doing what, sending all of the images at once? That's great for a small album, less useful for large ones.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    9. Re:Holy shit by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      yes but people end up using JavaScript to much to do things that html and css can do.

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    10. Re:Holy shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      By passing all the image URLs and titles to the client once. Javascript can modify the DOM to replace the images at will by modifying the image source or adding additional image elements. That doesn't take any XMLHttpRequest requests to the server, so its not AJAX.

    11. Re:Holy shit by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Sure, but what's your point? It's easy to do bad things with Javascript, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a very flexible and useful language, and the only scripting platform supported by pretty much every browser.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    12. Re:Holy shit by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      and is obviously not very good at his/her job if he/she can't figure out how to pass content from the server with AJAX.

      And if he were reaaally good at his job, he'd know that you don't need AJAX to swap pictures on screen. (Why did the GGP mention it anyway? I don't get it what it has to do with the task at hand anyway.)

      At least you weren't trying to browse TFA on a tablet or phone...on my iPad, the first page and every other page after that was a warning that the page I wanted wasn't "mobile-optimized." If you can't code your page to be usable on all devices, you're doing it wrong.

      (One minor point in their favor: at least they're not using that abortion known as Onswipe. Whoever decided scrolling should be replaced with pagination should be taken outside and shot.)

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  2. Glad they're reliable by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

    only two of the 150,000 boards made there have been shipped with defects

    1 of 5 of the boards I ordered recently was defective. It has the "can't keep the USB running" error. They were the 'Made in China" versions. Hopefully the Sony-made ones will be more reliable.

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    1. Re:Glad they're reliable by Yetihehe · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If it's only one of five, it would be extremely interesting for RPi team they are actively working on solutions for usb problems (there were several found and some corrected already). Could you help them and write your experiences in this thread?

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    2. Re:Glad they're reliable by paskie · · Score: 1

      About 30 boards (ordered from European Farnell, IIRC all made in UK) went through my hands in the past few months; I had no problem with any of them.

      I would be the first to point out some dubious design choices and other not-so-good things about the Raspberry Pi, but myself I can't complain about defective items at all.

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    3. Re:Glad they're reliable by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While I can understand why they went with a cheap, standard, connector(rather than yet-another-goddam-slightly-different-barrel-plug), I suspect that the rPI support guys are cursing the day that they chose a USB socket as a DC-in jack.

      To put it politely, the quality of USB chargers and powered hub wall warts is excitingly variable. If you are trying to run an ARM SoC, a USB ethernet controller, and possibly a couple of other downstream devices, all with just a +5 rail of potentially erratic specs, that isn't good for reliability. By going with the USB socket, they opened the field to every last dollar-store iCharger knockoff and its creative interpretation of what +5vDC looks like...

    4. Re:Glad they're reliable by paskie · · Score: 1

      Yes. I think key in my good experience with RPi is that for all of them, I'm using the same type of uUSB PSU. It is actually a rather cheap OEM part, but it works reliably and I think many of the experienced problems with RPi stem from bad PSUs.

      --
      It's not the fall that kills you. It's the sudden stop at the end. -Douglas Adams
    5. Re:Glad they're reliable by Vicarius · · Score: 2

      In one of the images (#11) in the article you can see screenshot of the "Automatic Inspection" software. It says that the defect rate is over 1%, i.e. for 150,000 units it should have been more than 1,500 defective units. Of course, they did mention that it was "shipped" units they were bragging about.

    6. Re:Glad they're reliable by mspohr · · Score: 1

      " the quality of USB chargers and powered hub wall warts is excitingly variable"

      I have had some exciting times with USB wall warts... melting is not too exciting but when you get flames it can get very exciting.

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    7. Re:Glad they're reliable by mspohr · · Score: 1

      One of the two boards I ordered was DOA. The little red light would come on but nothing else... no boot, etc.
      The other board worked fine with the same memory card, cables, power supply, etc. so it had to be the board.
      Nice to know that I had the only 1 in 150,000... maybe I should try the lottery.

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    8. Re:Glad they're reliable by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Is there a way to test what power supplies are good for the Pi with a multimeter? Have any links to known good chargers?

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      Good-bye
    9. Re:Glad they're reliable by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 2

      Dave Jones' "EEVBlog" recently did a teardown of a couple knockoff AppleUSB chargers. Some pretty scary cruft inside, for sure.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi-b9k-0KfE

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    10. Re:Glad they're reliable by grumpy_old_grandpa · · Score: 1

      Don't know about good ones, but there's many bad:

      http://www.arcfn.com/2012/10/a-dozen-usb-chargers-in-lab-apple-is.html

    11. Re:Glad they're reliable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes: there are 2 test points on the RPi board.

      Incidentally, I tested several chargers. The more expensive (branded) Nokia and HTC ones are actually worse! I suspect that it's because to charge a 3.7V LiPo battery, a 5V source would actually be more efficient at about 4.7V, whereas for the Pi, we need the full 5V.

      I recommend shorting all 3 polyfuses (if present), to eliminate that voltage drop - it helps a bit.

    12. Re:Glad they're reliable by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Really to test properly a multimeter alone is not enough, you need a known test load.

      In other words hack together a board with a micro USB socket and a 5 ohm 7-10W resistor (technically 5W would be enough but I like to leave some margin). Then plug your PSU into it and measure the voltage. If you have a scope you can also measure to see if there is any significant ripple.

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    13. Re:Glad they're reliable by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The problem is quite real but you're mad to think that this is exclusively an issue of the USB connector. Barrel plugs come in about 6 different standard sizes with no standard voltage for a certain plug.

      By going with a common DC jack you not only open yourself to the same shoddy Chinese powersupplies as the USB chargers (my favourite of which was a 5V 2A charger without a heatsink which nearly melted supplying only 600mA) but you also open yourself to the risk of people plugging the wrong voltage charger into the RPi. Ebay an dollar stores are absolutely full of them.

      The only real way to avoid the issue is to supply a suitable powersupply to begin with. The USB option was actually quite clever in that the vast majority of people have solid brand name chargers thanks to the proliferation of USB charging and mobile phones.

    14. Re:Glad they're reliable by dasunt · · Score: 2

      To put it politely, the quality of USB chargers and powered hub wall warts is excitingly variable. If you are trying to run an ARM SoC, a USB ethernet controller, and possibly a couple of other downstream devices, all with just a +5 rail of potentially erratic specs, that isn't good for reliability. By going with the USB socket, they opened the field to every last dollar-store iCharger knockoff and its creative interpretation of what +5vDC looks like...

      Agreed. I picked up a microUSB "travel charger" for my Pi. Claims 1000 ma. It doesn't give the USB enough power to find a network with a wireless dongle.

      A kindle keyboard charger at 850 ma powers up the network every time. So does feeding the Pi off a USB hub.

      So, lesson learned. Weird issues -> check the power adapter.

    15. Re:Glad they're reliable by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Oh, don't get me wrong, I think that the USB connector is definitely the best of the (mostly bad) options. The bottom of the market in wall warts is fairly dreadful no matter what shape the connector is, and even people without access to a geek's-giant-bin-of-parts at least probably have a few of this flavor.

      The one really unfortunate side effect(although probably unavoidable at this price point) of going with USB is that it means +5v input(maybe a hair higher, quite often lower if the supply is drooping) for a device that is supposed to be providing +5v output. Because they start with no headroom, absolutely anything they do short of 'eh, just connect the USB rail straight to input power, I'm sure it's fine' increases the risk of browning out USB slave devices connected to the pi.

      In a device like the dockstar, this problem is skipped by going with 12v input, followed by DC-DC conversion in the little cluster of magnetics below the barrel jack. Since they start with 12, only rather nasty undercurrent, or seriously ghastly input, prevents putting out +5 for the slave devices. Of course, the DC-DC converter section isn't free and the rPI was aiming quite hard for a price point, so I imagine that they didn't have that luxury(and just burning the excess with a dumb regulator would be brutally wasteful at 12v, even 9 would get fairly toasty).

    16. Re:Glad they're reliable by richy+freeway · · Score: 1

      I power mine off the USB "service" socket on the back of the TV. Runs Wifi and a 16gb pen drive perfectly.

    17. Re:Glad they're reliable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love this guy, so enthusiastic about everything.

    18. Re:Glad they're reliable by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Actually when you think about it they didn't get this quite as wrong as you think.

      The vast majority of USB wall warts on the market are designed to deliver a far higher load than any USB socket. It's the whole quick charging issue. The USB2.0 spec does not allow drawing 1A from the socket, a usb wallwart does, and this combined with some load sensing circuitry is precisely why phones charge much faster when plugged into the wall. The most common USB wallwart variety is in excess of 800mA, and very few people if any will use a computer to power a computer.

      I don't think the load issues are quite as bad as you may imagine and for nearly every scenario there's plenty of power headroom. Though I agree a sagging powersupply can be an issue with voltage headroom.

      Also the DC-DC converter I personally would think is less of a cost issue and more of a space issue. The components for a DC-DC converter can be had for about twice the cost of a linear regulator which ultimately is a small price to pay (especially in bulk), but typically requiring a minimum of 5-10 components depending on design that would even in the most compact form take up a few sqcm of PCB space.

  3. Shipped WITH defects ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So even if they have defects, they still get shipped, despite the numerous automated and manual checks?
    What a way to keep people from being unemployed....

    [wdw]

    1. Re:Shipped WITH defects ?? by jcaplan · · Score: 1

      No. Board passes all checks and later fails. Imagine a weak solder joint for instance.

    2. Re:Shipped WITH defects ?? by rufty_tufty · · Score: 2

      So even if they have defects, they still get shipped, despite the numerous automated and manual checks?

      I'm not sure what you mean. No test can capture 100% of all possible faults especially if you include any of the faults that mean things work to begin with but then fail later on (e.g. a weak solder joint will work to begin with, but the increased current density will tend to exacerbate the weak point making it fail terminally).
      In any chip itself there will be hard to find points of failure (a metal contact problem causing the pipeline to not flow control properly for example). Or they could be a weak driver on a memory cell caused by an implantation fail that means that under hot temperature conditions the memory write doesn't always successfully occur. What if it is a shielding problem on one of your clocks so that one multiplier experiences cross-talk sufficient to corrupt data in a cold chip only when the PSU is working with components at the limit of their tolerance?
      You can find many of these faults but how much is it worth adding to the cost of the system to catch that last 1% or last 0.00001% of problems?

      Production test is a hard probabilistic field where many of the problems are none obvious. At the end of the day all you can do is have the best test methodology available with careful monitoring of defect rates backed up by a solid returns policy.

      --
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    3. Re:Shipped WITH defects ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just wanted to point out, that despite all the testing, two units still got shipped with defects.
      So, how many of them are now waiting in the RMA pool?

      tom ate o
      tom aa to

    4. Re:Shipped WITH defects ?? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      So even if they have defects, they still get shipped, despite the numerous automated and manual checks? What a way to keep people from being unemployed....

      [wdw]

      Of course you can get manufactured goods with 100% guarantee of functionality, just like in any industry - see the Space Shuttle software error rate per kLoC. But the point is that this will cost you a lot more. Beyond a certain point, performing extra checks and tests ceases to be economical and, frankly, even becomes a folly IMO. It's easier to offer free replacements with postal fees paid by the manufacturer at that point.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  4. Cases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Since when do they ship in a clear plastic case as in the article?

    1. Re:Cases? by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Must only be for the ones manufactured in the UK. I got a Model B from Newark Element 14 just last week, but mine was a "Made in China" model and did not come with the case. Same box, however.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    2. Re:Cases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is an optional item. I bought one, and am very impressed with it.
      quite pretty, to be honest.
      from my Order Confirmation email;

      Case-CLR 1 Raspberry Pi Type B Case - Clear US$6.47

  5. raspberry for chinese boards by freeasinrealale · · Score: 1

    From TFA only 2 bad boards so far? http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=20657 - see this problem on as detailed on rpi site.

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    1. Re:raspberry for chinese boards by csumpi · · Score: 1

      Make that 3. Mine was also not able to keep any USB connection alive, but I didn't return it.

    2. Re:raspberry for chinese boards by dlinear · · Score: 1

      I just hopped onto the Raspberry Pi bandwagon. I received two boards over the weekend (made in China) and both can't keep the USB/Ethernet on... I'm the last post in the parent's link.... It's very frustrating (even for an experience electrical and computer engineer) and I hope that they can get their quality control under ... control. I'd hate to see something as awesome as the Raspberry Pi ruined during it's early life because of poor hardware manufacturing. Without RTFA, I expect this recent post is to get some good PR out about the recent glut of defective boards.

    3. Re:raspberry for chinese boards by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Only 2 so far from the Sony factory in the UK, none of the boards made in China count towards that total.

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    4. Re:raspberry for chinese boards by psergiu · · Score: 2

      Get a DC Volt-meter.
      While RPi is running and accesing USB devices measure between TP1 & TP2 points on the board.
      If the voltage is near or below 4.75V or near or above 5.25V the fault resides in your power supply.
      The ideal powersupply should be a clean 5.1V one 1A or more - as you have some voltage drops over the polyfuses.
      I have two "original" 256Mb RPis Made In China and all the common USB issues i had were fixed with better power supplies (old 5V,2A PSP power brick & 5V,3A DC 7~24V to 5V step-down from dx.com)
      Also - use a powered USB hub.

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  6. Better "inside" view by iONiUM · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think this: post from Pi is a better "walk-through", as it includes descriptions as well as pictures.

    But, that's just me.

  7. 150,000 boards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we have a moratorium on Raspberry Pi posts until they get 1.5M boards out there? Hardly a day goes by without some kind of Raspberry Pi astroturfing going on here and elsewhere, and yet in the US they are still not generally available.

    1. Re:150,000 boards by HaZardman27 · · Score: 2

      If you order one from the Newark Element 14 place, you can probably get one in about 3 weeks (maybe not right now with holidays coming up), since they're the ones using the UK manufacturing facility and can complete their orders much faster. I ordered a Model B on November 3rd and got it last week.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    2. Re:150,000 boards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot has stories on unreleased products too (zero units shipped), and on supercomputers (a handful of units shipped). A story should be judged on it's merits, not on an arbitrary number.

      That said, TFA isn't very newsworthy.
       

    3. Re:150,000 boards by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

      Now you know how I've felt for the last year about the kindle fire.

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    4. Re:150,000 boards by Grumpinuts · · Score: 1

      Appreciate the info..trouble is for many large organisations (like the one I work for), you have to go with their approved vendor list, which RS are on, and getting a new vendor approved is a non trivial task.

    5. Re:150,000 boards by mspohr · · Score: 1

      So... they have about 1,000,000 boards shipped now... What is magic about 1,500,000?
      BTW, I can generally get them in about 2-3 weeks from Newark/Element14 so I count that as "generally available" in the US.

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    6. Re:150,000 boards by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      My 5 that were shipped to the US came from Newark.com and (as mentioned before) they were all Made in China.

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    7. Re:150,000 boards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ordered 34 of them back in September for my hackerspace from Newark Electronics in the states. Received in Canada in two days.

      Why so much media attention? Because people are using them for cool things. Because it's the first board our space was interested enough in to group buy in that quantity. Even more than Arduino or Propeller.

    8. Re:150,000 boards by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I have 4 of them, all bought one after the other, in separate shipments. If you want one, order it, it will come. My first 3 boards all arrived within a week, the last one took a month.

      --
      Good-bye
    9. Re:150,000 boards by camh · · Score: 1

      In Australia, I ordered two model B boards from element14 on Sunday and they turned up today (Tuesday), just under 50 hours after I ordered.

    10. Re:150,000 boards by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Mine is as well, because they're not exclusively using the UK facility.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
  8. They've still got supply issues in the UK by Grumpinuts · · Score: 1

    Ordered two from RS early October, along with peripherals. Other parts arrived with back order notice saying they would ship 26th November. Still hadn't arrived today so phoned RS who said shipping date was now 22nd December (a Saturday?). I'm sure the Raspberry Pi folk are a very nice group of people but honestly they just come over as a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs when it comes to global fulfillment.

    1. Re:They've still got supply issues in the UK by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      If you can get your money back, try ordering from Newark. See my earlier post.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
  9. Now start making the Model B's there. by gmarsh · · Score: 4, Informative

    Because in my experience, the yield from the chinese Model B factory is 50%.

    My first RPi is currently tied up in a work project, so I ordered another model B from Newark. It came in and I fired it up yesterday, no LEDs or any signs of life. Dead.

    Then I noticed the main BGA in the center of the card looked a bit askew, looked closer and noticed the BCM2835 was missing. The Samsung DRAM that ordinary sits on top of the '2835 was soldered straight onto the PCB. I understand the part shooter fucking up once in a while and missing a chip, but the board shouldn't have made it out of the factory.

    C'mon. I'd rather pay a few extra bucks for something that's most likely going to work, than do what I'm doing now and spending even more bucks mailing the fucking thing back, and crossing my fingers that the replacement works too...

    1. Re:Now start making the Model B's there. by lattyware · · Score: 1

      The ones from the English factory are Model Bs.

      --
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    2. Re:Now start making the Model B's there. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article discusses a Welsh factory, not an English one. Or are you saying there's a third factory, in England, which manufactures the Bs while the Welsh one makes the As?

    3. Re:Now start making the Model B's there. by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Sorry, that's just me remembering it incorrectly, I thought the factory was in England, not Wales. The welsh factory is producing Model Bs.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    4. Re:Now start making the Model B's there. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      That's because there is no foreigner on the ground in China checking quality. This is a common greenhorn mistake made by people who have no idea what they're doing sourcing from China, and who think it's too expensive to pay airfare, hotel, and salary for one of their staff to go over. You're going to get defective products, either because the factory is actively cheating you, doesn't understand your requirements, or just doesn't care. Chinese factories will do good work but they need supervision. If there WAS a foreigner on the ground, then he needs to be fired for incompetence.

      --
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  10. SONY factory? Do not buy RPi! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Raspberry Pi boards are made at a Sony factory in South Wales, UK

    Remember, if you were one of the people denouncing everything SONY after the 'rootkit' affair - DO NOT BUY a Raspberry Pi, and don't forget to e-mail the Raspberry Pi Foundation and let them know how you feel about them collaborating with the enemy.

    Don't be like TheGratefulNet who swore off SONY and then indirectly sent them his money anyway. In his own words: "sony is *fully* boycottable with very little pain involved. its easy to do." Perhaps he didn't know - but now YOU do. Do not buy RPi.

    This message brought to you by Boycotts-R-Hilarious.

    1. Re:SONY factory? Do not buy RPi! by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      The first batch of Raspberry Pi's were made in China. They wanted it to be made in the UK, so they're paying a Japanese company to do it.

    2. Re:SONY factory? Do not buy RPi! by psergiu · · Score: 1

      The ones from RS are still made in China - so you have a choice.

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    3. Re:SONY factory? Do not buy RPi! by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      They wanted it to be made in the UK, so they're paying a Japanese company to do it.

      Oh yeah, that makes sense.

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  11. Sony factory by Mustakari · · Score: 2

    I'd never have ordered mine if I knew Sony gets something from making these.

    1. Re:Sony factory by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Manufactured by Sony, but not designed or modified by Sony.

      I'm ok with that, I would actually prefer a Sony model vs the Chinese manufactured model.

      I do not like Sony in the least, but all they are doing here as far as I can tell is putting it all together and they do do that well.

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    2. Re:Sony factory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sony makes great products, great engineering, and great intentions. They just need to understand the market a bit better outside of Japan. Take your hate somewhere else. Try building something yourself!

    3. Re:Sony factory by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 2

      Sony is a big mess of a companies. It is a hydra moving in three directions. Most people are upset with Sony Music over the root kit thing. Or they are upset with Sony Computer Entertainment for removing linux from the PS3. Sony Corporation is the company likely making the Pis. Sony Mobile(formally Sony Erickson) makes Android phones. Each of these companies are headed by different people.

    4. Re:Sony factory by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sony makes great products, great engineering, and great intentions.

      Like intending to install rootkits on people's computers? Fuck you and your employer, shill.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. Perhaps a bit jaded...but... by raydobbs · · Score: 1

    Who read this as saying, "...the factory says that the multiple automated and manual checks have meant that only two of the 150,000 boards made there have been shipped DUE TO defects" I mean, could explain the supply problem. Much more plausible that the entire world is being supplied by a half-dead 89 year old electronics engineer hand-building each one, occasionally losing his glasses between runs, with a crappy 1960's era Radio Shack soldering iron...

  13. Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 0

    I don't see how the Raspberry Pi can compete with similar products like the MK808 or UG802. For $50 you can buy a cheap android on a stick PC loaded with built in features, and fully capable of customized the ROM. They have twice the computing power of the Pi, so why are people still interested in the Raspberry?

    --
    -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    1. Re:Better options for less by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Android isn't a desktop operating system.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    2. Re:Better options for less by Narishma · · Score: 1

      Because it's cheaper, has a huge community and doesn't come with Android.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
    3. Re:Better options for less by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Can you run Debian on it? Does it have GPIO?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Better options for less by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Good point, for an extra $20 MK808 has a dual core 1.6GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, 8GB flash and WiFi. It lacks GPIO and Ethernet though. The UG802 also lacks these.

    5. Re:Better options for less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lack of Ethernet? Seriously in this day and age, how can you not put a network connection on your embedded dev board?

    6. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      You can run Ubuntu, and perhaps other distributions. Besides, do you really need GPIO when USB will do? It just seems like a lot of hyper for nothing, when there are tons of similar boards already available from places like Alibaba. What can you do with the Raspberry Pi that can't be done with similar products?

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    7. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      Some will argue that. I can use Android OS just like any other desktop OS.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    8. Re:Better options for less by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Because not everything needs to be connected to the internet all the times and networking adds cost and complexity and security concerns. The base definition of a computer does not include networking.

      --
      Good-bye
    9. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      Model B of the Raspberry Pi uses a USB Ethernet adapter, same could be done with UG802 or MK808.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    10. Re:Better options for less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It runs Raspbian (Debian tweaked for the Rpi) Yes, it does GPIO. If your really into the GPIO project stuff I would recommened the Starter Kit from Adafruit
      http://www.adafruit.com/products/1014

    11. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      Review comparing the MK802 vs. Raspberry Pi - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKNPnBE-ouI , and the MK802 has now been replaces with a much faster MK808. Conclusion - the MK802 is the clear winner when it comes to value, unless you have a specific project that requires the Raspberry Pi.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    12. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      USB GPIO board. http://www.fivemanconspiracy.com/node/45

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    13. Re:Better options for less by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Twice the power for twice the price doesn't make it a better deal. If the Pi has all the power you need, why spend $25 more for a "better" one?

      Also, the GPIO pins. That's not a particularly Android-y feature.

    14. Re:Better options for less by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Me neither. If I knew then what I know now, I'd never have bought an R-Pi. Notably, that the R-Pi foundation would demo Android and then never release it. Bait and switch? Probably not really, but I wouldn't have bought an R-Pi except that they had an announcement about Android working.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Better options for less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but it's built on the board, so one less thing hanging off the device (and one less physical USB port used up)

    16. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the Pi will have its place in some projects. I just don't see why there is so much hype about it. The specs aren't that impressive, but seeing something like the MK808 that's 1/4 the size of the Pi with 4x the power, that's something to rave about IMO.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    17. Re:Better options for less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because a Raspberry Pi is an open device, you can do WHATEVER the FUCK you WANT with it, Mr. Seven Digit UID.

    18. Re:Better options for less by Hrshgn · · Score: 1

      How would USB be a replacement for GPIO?
      GPIO are useful for interfacing with low level components such as switches, LED, LCD etc. Using USB for this would be overkill.

    19. Re:Better options for less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So now up to three times the cost, and larger size? I don't have interest in the Pi because I use microcontrollers on my own board, but I can see quite a the difference between the Pi and the option you are suggesting, and why many people would want the former.

    20. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      You can get a small USB GPIO adapter, smaller than a flash drive.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    21. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      I've seen some mods with the MK808 with a usb hub, ethernet port, hdmi male2female adapter all rolled into a case no bigger than the ones used for the Pi. It may cost a bit more, but you get 4x the performance. It all depends on what your looking for, but I guess the Pi might be fine for projects like - xmas lights.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    22. Re:Better options for less by na1led · · Score: 1

      So are similar devices, like the UG802 and MK802,MK808, etc. All Open Devices, and can do WHATEVER the FUCK you WANT with it.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
  14. Every time you buy a Raspberry Pi... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Every time you buy a Raspberry Pi, Sony gets a dollar.

    1. Re:Every time you buy a Raspberry Pi... by PReDiToR · · Score: 2

      Please, don't.

      I have just run a Raspberry Jam (albeit a little one) because I believe in this Foundation and their stated aims, but I cannot abide SONY and their company ethos vis a vis customer respect and DRM.

      If I could I'd buy RasPis that had been made somewhere else. Both of mine came from China, but the one that I got for a friend came from SONY. As will my next one, unfortunately.

      Shitty SONY. Bad SONY. May everything you touch (aside from RasPis) turn to sand in your clutches.

      --

      Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
    2. Re:Every time you buy a Raspberry Pi... by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Yes, Sony was evil. Still is, for a large part.

      What do you think the best way to change that behavior is?
      A) Refuse to buy any of their products, even the non-evil or outright good ones, or
      B) Reward them for building good products by buying them, while punishing them by boycotting their evil products

      Path A causes them to just stop counting you as a potential customer. So they no longer care at all what you do. In a way, you're like a rabid PS3 fanboy who buys every one of their products - your purchasing decision is a known factor.
      Path B gives them the full stick/carrot combination. They get rewarded for doing good, and punished for acts of evil. I may not know much psychology, but I think that one is more likely to work.

    3. Re:Every time you buy a Raspberry Pi... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      A) Refuse to buy any of their products, even the non-evil or outright good ones, or

      Congratulations, you just failed to understand how corporations work. If I give Sony money for one thing, they can use it to develop products over which they intend to bend people and fuck them.

      B) Reward them for building good products by buying them, while punishing them by boycotting their evil products

      This is not about good products, this is about good behavior. We will reward them for their good behavior as soon as they start exhibiting it. If they don't want us to conflate the actions of Sony Music with Sony Computer Entertainment (both are gigantic douches, though... rootkits and lik-sang respectively, for example) then they probably shouldn't put the Sony logo on both, and the name Sony in both names.

      Path B gives them the full stick/carrot combination

      Carrot: If they are not evil and they make products worth buying, they can have my money. Stick: If they are evil, or they make no products worth buying, fuck them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Every time you buy a Raspberry Pi... by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Note: Whenever I referred to "good" products in my original post, I was referring to "good" as in "opposite of evil", not "of high quality". I thought that was obvious given how I structured my comparisons, but I guess not.

      You also seem to fail to understand how corporations work. I can flip your statement around and have it be just as true: if I give Sony money for one thing, they can use it to develop products to help people and perhaps redeem themselves.

      You apparently insist on a complete, 100% change before you will do any business with them. That is not going to happen. Corporations, like people, cannot change overnight. That works both ways - Canonical could not immediately turn into a draconian lock-in vendor, no matter what the people "in charge" try to do. Likewise, Sony can't immediately turn into the company we want them to be. They could hand the reins over to you completely and you still couldn't do it in less than a year.

      I for one do not make my purchasing decisions based on any single factor. One of those factors is indeed how "evil" a company has been, but if the product *itself* is not intrinsically evil, I would have no problems with it. This is one of those cases - it isn't even really a Sony product, just a product Sony is manufacturing on behalf of another company. And I would venture to say that the Raspberry Pi counts as an intrinsically non-evil product.

    5. Re:Every time you buy a Raspberry Pi... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Please don't what? Remind you of the facts?

  15. The competition isn't spamming by Animats · · Score: 1

    I don't see how the Raspberry Pi can compete with similar products like the MK808 or UG802.

    The other vendors aren't spamming all over tech sites.

    (The Raspberry Pi people just take a really good system on a chip from China, slap it on a badly laid out board, and act like they've done something important. Annoying.)

    1. Re:The competition isn't spamming by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Where is your non-profit company trying to kids interested in computers? Thats what the Pi foundation IS. All this selling to us geeks is just to build a community. The main purpose of the Pi is to educate.

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:The competition isn't spamming by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      All this selling to us geeks is just to build a community

      If they were trying to build a community they would be a lot more open. For example, they would give us their Android sources, and they would have shared that the memory would be getting bigger as soon as they knew. A community is simply happening.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  16. Cheap manufacturing always costs more in the end by znigelz · · Score: 3, Interesting
    This is slightly off topic, but still very related to the OP.

    The UK computer industry enjoyed a mini-rennaisance in 2012 thanks to the popularity of the $40 Raspberry Pi

    Are they serious? Do they even know where the ARM SoC is designed?

    It amazes me that the Arm Holdings stock was only around $20 a few months ago, when they are without question the most dominant, stable, and secure tech company in the world. Both Apple and Google are completely dependent on the licenses they have acquired from ARM to allow them to use their risc based ultra low power cpu in their devices, and to allow the manufacturers (samsung, ti, etc) to build those chips, and yet in some cases their stocks are twenty times more.

    This amazes me, but at least ARM's stock has doubled in the past few months. There is NO bigger player in the computer industry in the world than the UK. I make this claim upon the the fact that now mobile is the dominant platform, and ARM is the only real player in that game (as of yet). Anyone can license and manufacture these chips for cheap and give us crappy hardware as a result, but the ingenuity is in their reduced and low complexity instruction set which allows for their ultra low power design, which is why almost everybody is using their SoC designs.

    The only reason that nobody realizes this and their stock has been stagnant in the past is because they don't have a "ARM inside" sticker on every ARM based device made. It there was such a sticker, they would be beyond any doubt the most popular company in the world.

    Disclaimer: I am Canadian (and live there at the moment), but I am also a UK citizen. I also don't hold any ARM stocks, though I am kicking myself that I still have yet to acquire any, since it would have almost doubled in value over the past year.

  17. 25,000CPH?? by Budgreen · · Score: 1

    they have some really slow SMT placement equipment.. The lines I program could knock that out in about half the time for SMT, and do most if not all connectors inline. I see why they produce more in china than there..

    --
    The greatest right given is the right to be wrong...
    1. Re:25,000CPH?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They probably don't need anything faster for simple designs such as the RasPi.

    2. Re:25,000CPH?? by Budgreen · · Score: 1

      yeah.. it's relatively simple.. why not spend a week running them as opposed to 2 days? IMHO what they show pictures of looks like a prototype low volume line... NOT a volume production line.

      --
      The greatest right given is the right to be wrong...
    3. Re:25,000CPH?? by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      Raspberry Pi IS a low volume prototype product in the world of SMT placement.

      It takes cash to buy the parts and build them... They COULD build a years worth in a week... But that's a bad use of Capital investment to tie up money you don't have to. And it takes up floor space. The customer simply can't PAY for more at once. These guys sling parts to get paid... The parts and such are consigned to the end customer.

  18. Re:Cheap manufacturing always costs more in the en by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    I LOL'd. Yes, the real thing holding back the UKs perceived dominance in the industry is lack of 'ARM inside' stickers. You probably think RIM got a bad rap too amiright?

    --
    Good-bye
  19. Some earlier pictures of the Factory... by ArcadeNut · · Score: 1

    Can be found here:

    --
    Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
  20. Most are made in China though by Cito · · Score: 1

    I just got mine 2 days ago, a new Model B Revision 2 board...

    they claimed it was made in the UK but when I opened the static bag and pulled out the board a huge "MADE IN CHINA" stamped all over it

    here is photo I took of my new model B Revision 2 board - http://www.flickr.com/photos/qoaa/8233431330/

    you can clearly see made in china

    here is another angle with made in china at top - http://www.flickr.com/photos/qoaa/8233433632/

    My original order was placed in July 5th, 2012 and I just got it on December 1, 2012 in the mail. I live in Georgia, US so I knew it would take a while to get "across the pond" but was a let down seeing it was made in china when they promised revision 2 boards were made in UK and they clearly are not.

    and yes i confirmed it's revision 2

    cpuinfo/free/uname info - http://image.dude-suit.net/albums/userpics/10002/raspi1.PNG

    1. Re:Most are made in China though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given the incessant bitching about reliability woes by celebrity owners of Land Rovers, consider yourself lucky your board was NOT made in the UK.

    2. Re:Most are made in China though by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      My original order was placed in July 5th, 2012 and I just got it on December 1, 2012 in the mail. I live in Georgia, US so I knew it would take a while to get "across the pond" but was a let down seeing it was made in china when they promised revision 2 boards were made in UK and they clearly are not.

      I think you are misremembering.

      Quote from the "made in the UK" post

      "The upshot of all this? Element14/Premier Farnell have made the decision to move the bulk of their Raspberry Pi manufacture to South Wales."

      Note that it is only one of the two manufacturing partners and for that partner it is only "the bulk of their raspberry pi manufacture" not all of it.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  21. Re:Cheap manufacturing always costs more in the en by znigelz · · Score: 1

    Wow. You are really stretching my words to make that speculation. In no way did I refer to RIM, but just because I am Canadian you assume that I am a die hard RIM supporter. I am talking about the UK, not Canada. I will not go off topic of my own post, but responses like yours make me slowly loose hope for the Slashdot community.

    To reiterate, my comment was that if such stickers existed, then they would be the most popular company in the world, since their chips are used in everything, but unfortunately they wouldn't be used in everything if they had such a requirement. ARM definitely does not have a bad rap, so you are definitely way off on the point of my topic.

    If you think there is a lack of dominance from the UK in the industry, then you really know nothing about the industry. QED

  22. But creates British/Welsh jobs... maybe pragmatic. by fantomas · · Score: 1

    Maybe they got pragmatic and decided the best way to bring in local jobs (Raspberry Pi = British,so jobs in the UK) was to find an existing plant that could take on the work. Maybe setting up their own factory from scratch was unrealistic for the Raspberry Pi organisation (these guys aren't an existing multinational megacorp, just a start-up, effectively) but they could at least try to get them manufactured in the UK and create some British/Welsh jobs. Perhaps they also felt this would allow them better quality control (an easy drive across the country for a few hours rather than a flight to Shanghai to check on facilities) and also be more ethical in terms of production line worker conditions. Puts them ahead of Apple, at least...

  23. Mod parent up: embedded uses by fantomas · · Score: 1

    Indeed, mod parent up. Not all computers have to be networked, plenty of situations where that's a security risk, costs more for the unit.

  24. Failure Rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks optimistic to me. Granted, mine is a small sample size but two out of three have failed. One boots but freezes after less than 5 minutes with no load, the other runs but does so too hot to enclose in any kind of case.