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As Fish Stocks Collapse, Overpopulated Lobsters Resort to Cannibalism

The Maine lobster population is booming, but it turns out that's bad news if you're a little lobster: "'We've got the lobsters feeding back on themselves just because they're so abundant,' said Richard Wahle, a marine sciences professor at the University of Maine, who is supervising the research. 'It's never been observed just out in the open like this,' he said." Abundance caused by populations of their predators collapsing.

54 of 231 comments (clear)

  1. Soylent Red by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Soylent Red is lobsters!!!!

    1. Re:Soylent Red by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 3, Funny

      I thought it was crab people.

    2. Re:Soylent Red by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're laughing, but I'm sure that crabs have their own opinion of us. I can vividly imagine the dialogue...

      - Why are you scratching your cloaca?

      - I think I got humans.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  2. I guess the food supply by shentino · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...is getting pinched.

    1. Re:I guess the food supply by the_humeister · · Score: 2, Funny

      No no no. Here's the proper way to do it:

      I guess the food supply...

      *put on sunglasses* ... is getting pinched.

      YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHHH!!!

    2. Re:I guess the food supply by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hint:: There's a reason for it...

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    3. Re:I guess the food supply by organgtool · · Score: 4, Funny

      Error: "There's" is not in scope "Hint".

  3. Of course, by mbstone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want to order lobster in a restaurant they will still charge "Market Price."

    1. Re:Of course, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Lobster Fed Lobster requires a premium price.

      I'm super rich, so I only eat Lobster Lobster and Kobe Kobe (kobe beef fed with kobe beef). I look forward to the availability of kobe lobster lobster (lobsters only fed lobsters fed with kobe beef).

    2. Re:Of course, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is a good, free market, reason for this. If you live outside Maine, the cost of shipping live lobsters is mostly keeping them alive (water is heavy, temperatures need to be maintained, etc.). If you live in Maine, then the restaurants aren't limited by the price of their food, but by their seating/serving capacity. They can charge their normal price, and still fill all their seats, so why lower the price?

    3. Re:Of course, by mr1911 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you want to order lobster in a restaurant they will still charge "Market Price."

      Yes. Market price is what you, or the diner seated at the next table, are willing to pay. This price has nothing to do with their cost of procurement.

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      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    4. Re:Of course, by omnichad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can have your Lobster Lobster, but you can't have Kobe Kobe. Kobe beef refers to more than just a specific breed of cattle. It refers to how they're fed, too.

    5. Re:Of course, by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

      There actually is pretty cheap lobster in Maine in the right season. Absurdly cheap, really.

    6. Re:Of course, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, I mean it takes a lot of facelifts to get the nuts up to chest level to begin with, and harvesting them can be a painful process.

      They make for excellent pork however.

    7. Re:Of course, by cayenne8 · · Score: 2
      Hmm...well, if you have too many lobsters...ship'em down here, and we'll come up with a good Lobster Gumbo...or Etoufee, or Courtboullion, or Lobster Remoulade over Fried Green tomatoes...or Lobster and Corn Bisque...or.....

      Man...its tough to lose weight living in LA.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Of course, by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, most lobster is shipped packed with dry ice, watere is not necessary, and weight is not the issue. It;s nearly impossible to keep lobsters alive in shipping for more than 24 hours (read that as, 25+ hours), so they go by air if the truck can;t get there in time. And nothing quite matches the odor of dead lobster, even packed. Most airlines I know that take them do so with the caveat that if they are not picked up nearly immediately, they go in the trash.

      Nothing flies cheap any more.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    9. Re:Of course, by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, it is. my mom, when were were young, and on food stamps, used to buy lobster on sale - and people would stare. But a 1 1/4 lb lobster actually goes a long way, better than steak. You get enough to keep 2 pre-teen kids happy, pick the carcass for all the leftover meat and get a nice stew for another meal minimum. We were 5 kids, so 4 lobsters would feed us for 3 dinners, about $12-15 on sale. Not that we complained much...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    10. Re:Of course, by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Relevant:
      F: "You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs"
      L: "I hardly think they'd use broken eggs in executive room service, Gordon."

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKcNB3hKG7Y

    11. Re:Of course, by istartedi · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sarcasm and inference are both broken on the Internet. Please fix that.

      BTW, I know it can't be fixed and has nothing to do with the Internet. BTW stands for "By the way". Yes, I know that re-stating a common abbreviation is irritating. My sig is a joke. Yes I know the joke isn't funny if I say it's a joke. Yes I know this disclaimer is too long to read. This disclaimer is an object lesson in what I think ought to be one of "the laws" for the Internet, right up there with Godwin. It goes something like this: "if there's something ridiculous to be inferred from what you've typed in a forum, it will be inferred" with a corrolary, "no amount of explanation can prevent such inferences". Furthermore, I did not copy this from Chuck Lorre. Yes I know I'm not as good as Chuck Lorre. Neither are you. Yes I know that you can't Godwin something explicitly, and so on and so forth, ad nauseum until we all explode. No I don't have schizophrenia or live in my parent's basement. You do. Yes I know that's childish. Yes, any attempt to disclaim only leads to more misunderstandings. Thus, one can only conclude that this is a strange game in which the only winning move is not to play. That's a War Games reference. Yes I know you knew that. Yes I know you didn't know that. Yes I'll Google War Games for you. No I won't...

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    12. Re:Of course, by budgenator · · Score: 3, Informative

      In one of Peter Lynch's books he noted that the pilgrims had a clause in their contracts that they could not be fed lobster more than 3 times a week.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  4. This shouldn't be on Idle by calexontheroad66 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a worrisome development and means that overfishing is collapsing the local ecosystem.
    It's no joke, and it's happening all over the world, the scenario is converging for a catastrophic decline in fish populations.

    1. Re:This shouldn't be on Idle by ArcadeMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mad lobster disease, anyone?

    2. Re:This shouldn't be on Idle by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's no joke, and it's happening all over the world, the scenario is converging for a catastrophic decline in fish populations.

      Oh, come on, think of the bright side - This means great news for swarms of inedible poisonous jellyfish that can now thrive in the absence of their natural predators!

      You didn't like swimming, did you?

    3. Re:This shouldn't be on Idle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or so say the econazis and global warming hoaxists. Meanwhile there isn't a single shred of evidence backing any of these claims up. You leftists will say anything to impose new regulations and taxes on the free market though won't you?

    4. Re:This shouldn't be on Idle by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      While you are correct it seems no one is willing to do what we need too to stop it.

      Ban fishing of some species in some areas and use the navy/coast guard to enforce that.

      Fishermen will have to be bought out by government or forced out of business another way.

    5. Re:This shouldn't be on Idle by readin · · Score: 2

      While our governments are busy interfering in health care, hiring and firing practices, agricultural funding and a million things the market would manage - here we have Tragedy of the Commons problem custom-made for government solutions but our governments don't seem very interested in doing something about it.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    6. Re:This shouldn't be on Idle by khallow · · Score: 2

      It's a common theme that fishing boats have to fish more, travel further, and fish less desirable species in order to get a catch. This issue is also pretty orthogonal to most environmental issues, particularly, the notorious sky-is-falling rhetoric of catastrophic AGW. It requires some sort of controlled fishing either by governments or fishermen of wild fish stocks. It doesn't require you to buy in to the other issues.

    7. Re:This shouldn't be on Idle by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, it is being done, and is being enforced.

      Problem is, often the cost of fines and such are lower than the potential profits.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  5. Next in the news: by cyberchondriac · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Mad lobster disease.

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    1. Re:Next in the news: by adamanthaea · · Score: 2

      Can't happen. Animals like lobsters can't carry prion diseases.

    2. Re:Next in the news: by cyberchondriac · · Score: 2

      How about prawn diseases? ;-D

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  6. Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We go to the market and see the fish case always stocked. But the thing to realize, that as species are being fished out, they fill the case with other species. And prices on some species are skyrocketing.

    Farming isn't very viable in many cases because they feed the farmed fish wild caught fish and the cages pollute the ecosystem so badly that the wild fish start to die out. Trout and Talpia are the only ones IIRC that are farmed sustainably - definitely not salmon.

    And the thing that kills me, the next time you look at the fish case in the super market, bare in mind that at least half of what's in there will be thrown away.

    We are so wasteful that it's just disgusting.

    1. Re:Exactly by robmv · · Score: 2

      This will fix by itself, no food for humans, humans will resort to cannibalism. Sometimes I think we deserve to disappear from this planet

    2. Re:Exactly by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2

      They claim salmon and carp are the most farmed fish in the world.

      Just because they're the most farmed fish in the world doesn't mean they are sustainable. Passenger pigeons, at one point, were the most-harvested bird species in the US... turns out that wasn't sustainable. One difference between passenger pigeons and salmon is what the diminishing resource is... in the case of the pigeons, it was the pigeons themselves that were hunted to extinction. For salmon, the resource is ocean/shore localities suitable for farming.

      Carp, I'd guess, is sustainable, since it can be farmed much like tilapia.

      Salmon, on the other hand, is not really sustainable using current practices, though there is promise for integrated multi-trophic aquaculture (IMTA) and other methods to improve sustainability.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    3. Re:Exactly by denis-The-menace · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And we will.

      I remember reading about a TV show with Dean Stockwell that predicted 911 and was predicting a massive reduction in world population.

      Now I know how it will happen:
      http://www.businessinsider.com/peak-phosphorus-and-food-production-2012-12

      This, add Monsanto and laws against keeping seeds and voila: Starvation.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    4. Re:Exactly by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or we'll develop some technology that makes the food-related cost similar to what it is now. That's another "invisible hand" thing that happens. Before we chicken-little maybe we should consider the availability of phosphorus outside of the obvious sources.

  7. Worried! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

    I hope this leaves enough cave lobster for my Dwarves!

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  8. Re:So then... by slew · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why is Lobster still so expensive?

    Originally, lobster was originally poor-people's food. In the USA New-England area in both pre-colonial times, they were so plentiful that native americans and early colonists could simply catch them from tidal pools along the shoreline. This made lobsters cheap food to serve toe prisoners and indentured servant (those that bartered for passage to the "new-world" with labor contracts). With the Cod populations crashing, it sounds like we are going back to those times...

    The reason lobster got expensive was that transportation costs used to be a large part of the price. Also over time, with most profitible businesses, often the infrastructure determines the price more than the supply. People that own parts of the infrastructure (fishing territories, relay-holding ponds, lobster gangs, etc) demand a price level to keep their profit margin the same even when the underlying commodity supply goes up which would nominally send the price down.

  9. I think we're approaching... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think we're approaching a fishcal cliff...

  10. Re:Please explain once more by v1 · · Score: 2

    Why the fuck are lobsters expensive and considered luxury food? Supply obviously is far greater than demand.

    Quantity available is only one factor in price. Cost to acquire, transport, store, and market also add in. Live lobsters are expensive to transport and store, and lobster meet turns to mush if frozen.

    There's an old anecdote that's appropriate here. If there were a huge pile of gold bars on the moon, it wouldn't be economical to go get them.

    (seafood is typically cheap on the coasts, where beef is expensive. in the central and midwest, beef is cheap and seafood is expensive)

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  11. Re:I'll eat the lobsters! by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Funny

    Maine.

  12. First lobster cannibal's thoughts by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Funny

    "No wonder those humans are always trying to eat us...we're delicious!"

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:First lobster cannibal's thoughts by RajivSLK · · Score: 5, Informative

      Interesting fact about lobsters, they haven't always been considered delicious. In colonial times, lobsters were considered "poverty food." They were harvested from tidal pools and served to children, to prisoners, and to indentured servants. In Massachusetts, some of the servants rebelled and demanded that they would not be forced to eat lobster more than three times a week.

      In fact I met a old woman who told me that, when she was young, she would hide and eat her school lunch- her family was too poor to afford anything other than lobster and the other kids would tease her.

      I just goes to show you how society, culture and advertising controls our behaviour, beliefs and taste buds.

      As far as this lobster "overpopulated" lobster nonsense- call me when you can walk along the shore at low tide and just pick them up by the dozens (as was common in years past). That would be the natural equilibrium population before we started commercially harvesting.

      This whole "overpopulated" is clearly perpetuated by someone who wants increased quotas.

    2. Re:First lobster cannibal's thoughts by sodul · · Score: 2

      True story from when I started at Google, back in the good days years ago. It was on the last company wide ski trip, talking to an other employee.

        - So where is you office on the campus, what is your closest cafe?
        - It is Cafe Foo. (not real name)
        - Oh I like cafe Foo, good food.
        - NO! IT SUCKS! IT'S LOBSTER ALL THE TIME!!!

      She was dead serious. Nobody's complaining about too much lobster or kobe beef these days.

  13. Re:So then... by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Aren't tasty? what? Lobster is the ultimate white meat.

    preparation? A live lobster and a pot of boiling water. This is not hard, people. If you can;t tell if your lobster is alive, it probably isn't, and never cook dead (or dying) lobster.

    Quick primer. Boil until the shell is bright red, plunging the lobster in headfirst. It never realized it was dead.

    Serve with baked potato, corn on the cob or greeen geans, plenty of melted butter available. Crack the claws off and open, pull out the meat, drop it in the butter. inCrack off the tail, tear off the tail fins and suck on them like candy :). take a cunck of claw meat and eat that, making room for the tail in the butter. If you're lazy, this is it. Otherwise, the knuckles above the claw have meat, each leg has a thread of meat, those tail fins usually do also. there is meat all through the body (carapace), and a little work nearly doubles your haul. Or give it to someone who knows how to get in there. Avoid the tomalley if you don't know what it is.

    How to tell if yo got a Maine lobster? Measure the carapace, which had better measure between 3 1/2 and 5 inches from the end of the carapace to the edge of the eye socket. Cheating is very rare in Maine waters, lobstermen will send each other to jail over this... If it is shorter, good chance it came from Canada, or possibly Massachussetts. Those big spots the tail when raw/live? That is not a Maine lobster, probably a Longostino, which is not a lobster. Most are actually shrimp.

    Sorry, I love lobster, and miss it so.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  14. You've got to respect... by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Whoever first ate lobster.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    1. Re:You've got to respect... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 2

      I don't know about respect. I've got compassion for anyone who is starving to death. People in that situation will eat anything: grass, bark, dirt, rocks, rotten things, people, etc. You can be certain that people have eaten anything they can get their hands on. Most things that turn out to not kill you ends up in our regular diet, subject to cultural preferences.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
  15. Re:So then... by compro01 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Lobster doesn't freeze well.

    --
    upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  16. Never been observed? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe you're too young to remember, or you can't find it easily on the Internets, but back in the 60s when I was a kid, my family used to own French House Island off Jonesport in Maine, and we'd be up there every summer.

    It had been observed then.

    Now, that said, there's nothing better than Maine Lobster. We used to make blueberry pancakes from the blueberries on the island, and eat fresh lobster in butter, as well as clams we dug up and mussels.

    But just because you can't find it observed this century doesn't mean it's "never been observed".

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  17. They're just feeling crabby. by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    Wouldn't you?

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  18. They are not "resorting" to anything. by azav · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lobsters do this anyway.

    Source: my degree in Marine Biology.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
    1. Re:They are not "resorting" to anything. by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      What, proof by authority? Well, I sneer at that, and will do my own... wait, you're right.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  19. I blame by Krojack · · Score: 4, Funny

    all the vegetarians out there... They should eat more meat.

  20. Re:Where's PETA? Oh there they are. by budgenator · · Score: 2

    Considering the primitive brain those bugs have, I fail to see why anyone would be surprised at their cannibalism, the rule of thumb in the ocean is anything you can eat, you do eat. 90% of my goldfish and koi fry are lost to cannibalism and predation.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds