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USB NeXT Keyboard With an Arduino Micro
coop0030 writes "Ladyada and pt had an old NeXT keyboard with a strong desire to get it running on a modern computer. These keyboards are durable, super clicky, and very satisfying to use! However, they are very old designs, specifically made for NeXT hardware: pre PS/2 and definitely pre-USB. That means you can't just plug the keyboard into a PS/2 port (even though it looks similar). There is no existing adapters for sale, and no code out there for getting these working, so we spent a few days and with a little research we got it working perfectly using an Arduino Micro as the go between."
Honestly I feel it's not a waste. A lot of the older keyboards in the 80's were made to be a hell of a lot more durable then the flimsy plastic crap you buy now. I fondly remember my *old* IBM keyboard from the mid 80's that was very heavy but man oh man did it sound beautiful with the clicking noises it made and it felt great to type with it.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
For ADB NeXTs (i.e., Turbo 33/color workstations) - wouldn't an ADB to USB adaptor work?
Three Step Plan:
1. Take over the world.
2. Get a lot of cookies.
3. Eat the cookies.
I wonder why they didn't make it on their own. Customers love that shit!
Couldn't you just use an ADB to USB adapter? Guess that would be less amusing than reverse engineering the standard.
... that I may, someday, be able to find a use for that old 3-button DEC hockey puck mouse I have down in the basement. Cool.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Who cares if modern stuff is not durable. I can buy 10 modern keyboards for the price of one of these dinosaurs.
congratulations on devoting your time & money on doing something useless, thanks for sharing!
They're using a keyboard they like, where previously they could not. And in the abstract, they found a problem and solved it... which is reason enough for a hobby project.
Now go away, troll.
If a Next keyboard is the same as an AT PC keyboard, this is a trivial hack; you can do it with a PC LPT port (it's a single bit TTL signal that just needs a bit of waggling).
Much harder now there are no simple I/O ports on a PC.
All your ghosts are just false positives.
I love the "old" clicky keyboards. They feel much better on the fingers and the tactile freedback is wonderful. You can still buy them from UNICOMP who bought out the IBM keyboard factory upgraded with USB: http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD
You can also pick them up on 2nd hand on eBay from these resellers: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/
When I buy a laptop they're all equal EXCEPT FOR THE KEYBOARDS. Some are better than others, but none compare to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard Know people who type whole novels on their iPhone, but is it really the best way to do it?
Working on these at NeXT was an absolute pleasure. The key response allowed for longer sustained typing and fewer mistakes. I miss this keyboard as it sat at the right ergonomic angle.
If you like cheap keyboards just fine, then by all means, do that. Some prefer the older ones, and that's ok too.
It certainly doesn't hurt anyone to make those options available and it's not like they claim to have cured cancer... it's just a project.
Back in the 90s, a company called Northgate Computer Systems, based out of Minnesota, ranked right up there in terms of marketshare, etc as Dell, HP, etc. They had several government contracts which were exceptionally lucrative. They also made keyboards that everyone at the time lusted for because they were super-reliable, very comfortable to use, and quiet despite the snappiness of the keys. You simply couldn't find a better keyboard. Everything was looking great for them, until senior management made a series of horrible and totally avoidable blunders and within a year the company tanked. The one thing to survive the company's demise was their patents on keyboards -- bought out by a company called Avant Stellar (if memory serves). They charge a fortune for their keyboards, and they aren't as reliable as those old ones are.
I can understand why these guys decided to hack together a microcontroller assembly to get it working on modern hardware: human interface equipment back in that day and age was built to last forever. It could even survive contact with 5 year olds, as my keyboard frequently crashed onto concrete floors, was pissed on by animals, and crushed by falling monitors (remember: Back in the day, a 19" monitor weighed a good 50 pounds). Things that would kill today's keyboards dead, it simply brushed off as a non-event.
I wish things were built like that today, rather than this planned obsolesence bullsh*t. There's some things in this industry that just don't change: The power cord, the mouse, the keyboard, and the cases. Build those things to last guys. Really.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
If you like cheap keyboards just fine, then by all means, do that. Some prefer the older ones, and that's ok too.
I tend to live at my PC and over the years it just became so tedious keeping a good keyboard clean and working well. Now I just get whatever is cheapest at Walmart, maybe once or twice a year. Not the most Earth friendly option I know but I really, really hate grimy keyboards.
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
Wasn't 3D printing supposed to let us print our own electronics at home? What's this cable and soldering nonsense?
Some prefer the older ones, and that's ok too.
I assume that they're not Windows users. It would be annoying not having the Windows key. Same with Mac, but a Mac user wouldn't be caught dead using one of those, so I assume this was for a Windows or *nix user.
You, Sir, have the "consumer" mentality. Wasteful frivolity is the order of the day. Corporate chiefs and demons dance in glee, to see that you are so thoroughly indoctrinated. Go, Sir, and buy a dozen more useless trashy pieces of shit, so that corporate profits may increase.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Every keyboard and mouse produced by Apple after His return sucked.
I still use a Macally ikey, which is just like the ADB extended keyboard.
I find the Windows key annoying, even in Windows. Model M forever!
Not going to modify my NeXT keyboards... they are still connected to their lovely black hardware.
Like John Lennon once said, time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted.
I miss the space where the damn windows key is now. as well as the click clack of a good old keyboard...
If you expand your search of keyboards beyond Wal-Mart you can find plenty of modern keyboards that don't suck. There are hundreds of models of mechanical keyboards to choose from. The most popular mechanical switch brand is Cherry MX. I prefer Cherry MX red switches and have a Corsair K90 keyboard that has a lot of modern features such as back-lit keys, media keys, and a volume scroll wheel, and 26 key rollover. Cherry MX red switches only require 45 g of force so they require a lot less effort to press and I can type faster and with less errors because I don't miss keys.
The Official Site of 1337 Pwnage
Windows 8 will cure you of that!
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I thought all of his philosophy was discredited when they tore down the wall and started pulling down his statues?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
... how much has the price of NeXT non-ADB keyboards jumped on eBay since this was posted?
Any Mac user worth the name should be proud to have NeXT hardware.
Huh? does every hobby progject must solve some problem?
I have my nice pair of Model M 1986 & 1989 and a couple extras that have given up parts to the pair.
I look for them in thrift stores, where I found my second one; I've also seen some of the Northgates also.
The thing I like best, besides the springy keys and the responsiveness is the shaded keys; I really hate that modern keyboards are monotone. I like the grey on function keys, Enter, Shift & etc,
Oh hell yeah. A Model M keyboard wouldn't be destroyed even if you threw it into Mount Doom.
Honestly I feel it's not a waste. A lot of the older keyboards in the 80's were made to be a hell of a lot more durable then the flimsy plastic crap you buy now. I fondly remember my *old* IBM keyboard from the mid 80's that was very heavy but man oh man did it sound beautiful with the clicking noises it made and it felt great to type with it.
Remember? This post is being typed on one. This M just keeps going with the odd cleaning of parts in the dishwasher to make it look new again.
I think you are dead on with the plastic crap keyboards - the ones at the office simply aren;t as good. A pity all those great PC, XT and PS2 era keyboards ended up in the bin. The M2 is a great keyboard as well - but not as heavy so it is good on a desk.
This is a cool project for that reason. I think an arduino conversion of a M to USB would be great as I found the adapters don't work that well.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
I'm typing this on another M (mine was made on 9/25/91). I remember seeing a Model M for sale awhile ago on Ebay that had built-in USB. The last owner replaced the plug and whoever it was did a really good job on it--the plug was a bit longer than most but aside from that it looked like it was originally built that way.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
The PS/2 connector predates NeXT computers by a year, according to Wikipedia.
Not eating at the computer and washing hands helps keeping your keyboard clean.
Tomorrow is another day...
I'm typing this on another M (mine was made on 9/25/91). I remember seeing a Model M for sale awhile ago on Ebay that had built-in USB. The last owner replaced the plug and whoever it was did a really good job on it--the plug was a bit longer than most but aside from that it looked like it was originally built that way.
That sounds like a great mod, great score!!! My M is only about a year older and looking at the connector I see what you mean - a usb port would fit in there nicely.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
I used to love the old fashioned keyboards. My favorite was some PS/2 IBM model that I still have in the attic somewhere. When PS/2 ports started disappearing, instead of reaching for the soldering iron, I looked for a USB keyboard.
After much trial and error I discovered the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard. It is the best keyboard ever made. Less fatigue, awesome key action, silent and it's backlit. It's not cheap, but you get what you pay for.
From what I have seen, Windows 8 might cure me of Windows.
Are you talking about your own post, or the article? It's hard to tell, since both are equally useless and a waste of time and money.
I'm just going to assume you meant your post. Less logical disconnects that way.
They're using a keyboard they like, where previously they could not.
I have a story like that, back when I admitted to owning an iPaq 3950 PDA. The problem was the swiveling UDRL button on it was terrible for playing SEGA/SNES games - walking diagonally was nearly impossible and on-screen keypads were awkward. So, I hacked the keymap of an HP micro keyboard driver, and built a full fledged PS/2 keyboard adapter. The HP driver magically kept power supplied to the cradle connector, which I used for powering the keyboard. I generated the +/-12V (more like 8V) from a charge pump driven by signal lines. It was simple enough that no microcontroller was necessary.
It worked reliably, but the HP driver hurt performance, and it was just too bulky to be practical if there wasn't an empty desk nearby. It only took a week to build, so it was worth doing, but in retrospect all I really needed was a game pad.
About a year later, I bought a decent MSI netbook computer and shelved the iPaq forever. It has been better in every measurable way, and the only mod I've needed to do is improved cooling for the northbridge (it had no heatsink).
When I saw this was a thread about old keyboards, I was hoping I'd find someone recommending some newer quality keyboards.
I can add that I found the ABS Model M1 keyboard to be a great alternative to the very expensive boards (lists for $69.99, but I picked mine up on clearance for $40 a few years ago). I don't need any of the added "modern" functionality of media keys or backlight, but I did want a keyboard that had a solid, "springy" resistance, and a definite clicking sound when I used it. I just can't get by on the basic factory keyboards that come with computers out of the box. Those keyboards have the feel, and only slightly more effectiveness than typing into a bowl of pudding.
Granted, this ABS hardware has never had the solid response I got from my old IBM keyboards, and someday I'm sure dropping over $100 on a nice keyboard won't hurt my wallet or my spending conscience so bad. But in the meantime, this ABS board was a decent, cheap alternative.
John Lennon != Vladimir Lenin
Until the key action finally began to wear out, I used a couple of old Wang keyboards that I found in a dumpster. They had awesome klicky action, tons of macro buttons, a great layout -- and they weighed a ton! Plus the best part was no annoying Windows key to accidentally hit all the time.
I've tried a couple of newer clickly models - A Das Keyboard and now a Razer Blackwidow, but they still don't have quite the same feel -- and they have the annoying windows key.
If there's one thing I'd like to see hobbyists doing it's this. There's obviously too much waste in the world. If a culture could be built up of people seeking out modders to build computers and other devices using older parts and go betweens, I' be on for that. I think it's great.
The original NeXT keyboard was a bit clicky but not as clicky as an IBM Model-M. The ADB NeXT keyboards though were squishy, not clicky. Layout ergonomically they were a bit better but they felt much worse. I much prefer the IBM M15: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/12675
What about http://m0115.web.fc2.com/main.html#PS2NeXT http://m0115.web.fc2.com/ps2next_man_e.html ?
If you like cheap keyboards just fine, then by all means, do that. Some prefer the older ones, and that's ok too.
I tend to live at my PC and over the years it just became so tedious keeping a good keyboard clean and working well. Now I just get whatever is cheapest
A quality keyboard (quality anything IMHO) can be dismantled with real screws, cleaned and re-assembled and ends up like new. I use a 20 year old IBM AT keyboard that I clean about once every 2-3 years (I don't eat over it either). It is superb to use and worth the hour spent. Most modern keyboards are utter rubbish, and I have thrown quite a few away (like you get with new PCs) after trying a few keystrokes. What a waste of resources. It is like the difference between riding a quality bike and a riding cheap Chinese-made commuter hack, no matter how new and clean that hack is. If you are happy with the hack then I am happy for you.
John Lennon != Vladimir Lenin
or John Lennon != Jimmy Saville, but he was a POS anyway.
It's not consistently like that - an IBM serial terminal I've got at work has a case that's so poorly designed that the entire case and a visable portion of the main board (yes, you can see it behind the serial socket) flexes alarmingly when you just plug in a serial cable. Meanwhile the model M keyboard that pugs into the front of it is just about bombproof and seems to weigh almost as much as the terminal (which has a CRT in it). If a keyboard was as much "filmy plastic crap" as that terminal it wouldn't survive shipping. Each time it's used, which is rarely, I'm worried the thing will break. The keyboard doesn't have a compatible controller for anything other than that terminal but it's not worth adapting. It isn't difficult to get a PS/2 model M (like the one I'm creating noise pollution with now), and there's almost identical things available new.
There's a few hassles with the USB keyboard driver standard that get in the way with multiple keypresses. That's the main problem with the adapters.
It is also possible to learn to eat in a way that does not smear the keyboard.
I am a keyboard snob. The keyboard is the part of the computer with which I interact the most, so I hate the mushy feel of membrane keyboards that are based on the same technology as VCR remotes.
If you want to be a keyboard snob too (in a good way), then start by going to wasdkeyboards.com and buying their sampler kit ("http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/sampler-kit-1.html"). For $8, you get eleven keycaps in different colors, four Cherry MX switches (blue, brown, black, red), and fifteen dampeners in three types. This is a cheap way to understand the difference between the four kinds of Cherry MX switches and decide which you prefer. You can then buy a custom-made keyboard from wasdkeyboards.com, choosing the switch, keycap color, and text for each individual key if you want.
I don't use my numeric keypad much, so I opted for a tenkeyless keyboard. wasdkeyboards.com doesn't yet offer these (current estimate is March), so I got it from "http://elitekeyboards.com".
If you want an old-fashioned IBM Model M clacky keyboard, you can get it from "http://www.pckeyboard.com".
It's a pain in the ass, but it has good bones. I'm sure Windows 9 will address the multiple personality disorder somewhat. I'm hoping that Windows tablets don't fall flat in the marketplace so that we have some competition, but I have to admit that they aren't that compelling so it might all just go away.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
For quite a while I've been using the Matias Tactile Pro 3 (or thereabouts) keyboard. It has a Mac layout (similar to the older Apple keyboards) and uses microswitches for a clicky good time. And it's quite a bit more compact than the IBM PS/2 keyboard although it boasts more keys (including, of course, the Command and Option keys etc.). It's not the cheapest keyboard in town but if you like clicky and use Macs than it's probably the way to go.
Me too.
You can get brand new ones from pckeyboard.com
No sig today...
Might want to go get some meds, your aspberger's is acting up again.
Nope, this one wasn't a Unicomp. It was an original IBM but it had a plug just like the ones on that site.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
The model M I am typing on is a Unicomp built 3/31/99, got it direct from Unicomp less than a year ago after my former model M finally died. It's directly plugged in, but there are PS2 to USB adapters that work fine. My wife has one and she types 120 wpm.
End MGM. Get prospective parents of boys to Google: Men do complain
If it takes more than 15 minutes, buying a new $20 keyboard is cheaper than cleaning an old one.
You assumption that the AC is the same person reflects negatively on your intelligence
Wow, either a subset of Model M users have become religious group attacking those that don't see light and hear the click (can't we go back to traditional religious fights, like talking about how vi won and emacs is used by sore losers...), or someone is really upset that someone else did a cost-benefit analysis and saved some money.
Wow.. You need to replace your keyboard once or twice a year? What pieces of crap! (I sure hope you at least put the old ones in electronics recycling.)
I'm typing this on a Mac Pro on an "Apple Keyboard" (the one that came with the Mac SE, with the control key in the right place), with an ADBUSB converter. (And no, the "Happy Hacker" keyboard is similar, but not as good, and of course, I already have this keyboard.)
That's only true if by cleaning your keyboard, you're giving up an opportunity to work at $80/hour.
If it's the keyboard I use at work, then it's true.
Since the PS/2 system (and standard) came out in 1987, how long ago DID good ol' Steve the Magnificent leave Apple to form NeXT?
NeXT didn't not-use the PS/2 connector because it wasn't around; they didn't use it because it was an IBM patent. Before someone else points out, the 6-pin mini-DIN connector is not what was patented, the signalling scheme and pin-out was.
"Version N of windows sucks, but I'm sure version N+1 will fix all those issues!" has been the Windows mantra since version 3.11. I doubt very much that 9 will be that much better, simply because it will introduce it's own issues as it tries to fix the issues in 8.
That being said, there were some versions of Windows that weren't complete trash, 98se, XP, and 7 being the ones that come to mind. However even those versions had many issues that made working with them a pain. I think Windows will always be the OS that sucks.
DEMETRIUS: Villain, what hast thou done?
AARON: Villain, I have done thy mother.
Shakespeare invents 'your mom'
We had a Cheeto Bandito in our office that ate Cheetos all day long while working. I used to hate having to go to their cube to work on their PC, the homerow keys were all caked with the orange powder/flavoring. Skeeved me out everytime because there was an orange halo on the carpet around the chair and the cube was just really gross and always smelled like rotting food.