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Russia, China, and Others Seek Greater Control Over Internet

kodiaktau writes "A proposal put forth by Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Sudan and the United Arab Emirates seeks greater international control and government of internet addressing. 'A leaked draft (PDF) of the Russia-led proposals would give countries "equal rights to manage the Internet including in regard to the allotment, assignment and reclamation of Internet numbering." This could allow governments to render websites within their borders inaccessible, even via proxy servers or other countries. It also could allow for multinational pacts in which countries could terminate access to websites at each others' request.' The move would basically undermine ICANN and decentralize control of internet addressing: 'The revision would give nations the explicit right to "implement policy" on net governance and "regulate the national Internet segment," the draft says.'"

20 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. Oh FFS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, I knew it was coming. No "free" source of information can remain free forever. Here's to hoping they fail.

    1. Re:Oh FFS by Armakuni · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They likely won't fail completely. They will get some small victory, at least. Next time, they will get a little more. And the time after that. This is too important to governments to ever give up.

      --
      That's not Picasso, that's Kandinsky!
    2. Re:Oh FFS by LateArthurDent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They likely won't fail completely. They will get some small victory, at least. Next time, they will get a little more. And the time after that. This is too important to governments to ever give up.

      Sometimes I fear that I'll be telling my grand kids about how I remember when the internet was free. Actually, my biggest fear is that they'll be so indoctrinated they'll compare it to the wild west, and tout how all the regulation of the mature internet made it a safer place. I fear they'll just file my complaints about lack of freedom under "old man rambling" category.

    3. Re:Oh FFS by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't pretend the US administration, donkey or elephant regardless, doesn't want this.

      Okay, I won't pretend. They don't want this.

      The primary reason is that it's simply bad for business. Secondarily, they simply don't want Internet governance to become a matter of political and diplomatic negotiation with countries that don't love them. Tertiarily: There's a reason the EU, Canada, Japan and Australia are all lined up against these proposals: They actually do occasionally give a shit about human rights. I know it's not au fait to think so, but it's true.

      And regarding delegates' stupidity: Judge for yourself whether the US Ambassador to this event sounds stupid or not.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    4. Re:Oh FFS by kesuki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you can do something about that here and now.
      the government tried taking away alchohol, the people stopped following laws.
      it's not like the government can just make us think whatever they want us to think. even if they control the information people find ways to fact check, there have been people who sneak in digital cards with non state approved data on them in countries with tight controls.. before that they snuck in microfilm, and used whatever magnafier they could find.
      before that they printed papers and before that they wrote cyphers that could be decoded with innocent looking canes.
      the government has a contract with the people not just the top 1% they truly are the servants of all the people. the sooner they realize they are servants the better.
      the internet isn't free on the whole earth and probably never will be, freedom is fought for daily, almost everywhere. i know a lot of smart people and i know that i benefited greatly from freedom on the internet, maybe the internet will be reduced to walled gardens, but for some reason i think people will not tolorate the loss of the 'free' internet.

  2. Looks perfectly in line with the ITU by Halo1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the official speech delivered by the ITU's secretary-general at the first Plenary of World Conference on International Telecommunications in Dubai last week:

    We have the power to create a brave new world, where social and economic justice prevails – together.

    And no, that quote is not taken out of context.

    --
    Donate free food here
    1. Re:Looks perfectly in line with the ITU by Halo1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seems like my browser decided to log me out. So, again, logged in this time:

      "Social and Economic Justice" = Totalitarianism in a nutshell.

      I completely disagree with that statement, although it can be perfectly abused for that purpose of course. Then again, so can "spreading democracy".

      --
      Donate free food here
    2. Re:Looks perfectly in line with the ITU by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Internet is such a great success today, precisely because the ITU was not involved with it. If it was their creation, it would be their right to regulate it. The other countries just want a piece of the action of Internet control because it is now such an important resource to the economy of the world.

      Well, so is crude oil . . . so should the UN also declare that crude oil is a world resource and crude oil exploitation and distribution be regulated by the UN? Saudi Arabia might not be so happy about that.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  3. Time for a political solution.... by gadget+junkie · · Score: 5, Funny

    Instead of opposing it and then caving in, The western world could rip a page off the dictatorships' book: "the proposal has merit, but it has to be studied thoroughly: We could form a committee with ,oh, all the countries in the world, chaired by a non aligned country, Tuvalu [internet domain: *.tv], and wait until they come with a legal and technical proposal behind which a qualified majority, for example enough countries representing 95% of world population and internet domains, gathering at least 85% of the number of countries involved, could be found. Do you mind if we of the ole US of A get represented by all the 50 states individually? We know for a fast that Canada wants to do likewise, and to be fair, all the European countries have a vote each, so it would only be fair..... See you in 3.100 AD, ok? Of course, if some technical advance has taken hold in the meantime, the whole process has to be restarted."

    --
    "If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
  4. Folks on /. have been complaining about US control by StormyWeather · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Now is their chanc to experience the awesomeness ofRussian and Chinese control.

  5. Serenity's Core Planets by caspy7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This reminds me of the scene at the beginning of Serenity in which the children question why the Browncoat rebels would reject civilized living.

    1. Re:Serenity's Core Planets by aurispector · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember that the next time some idiot starts blathering about the need for gun control. Freedom can be dangerous. The most dangerous thing of all is an idea.

      Take away people's ability to defend themselves, then take away people's ability to educate themselves. The last hurdle is taking away people's ability to think for themselves.

      "1984" was a warning, but a lot of governments seem to be using it as an instruction manual.

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
    2. Re:Serenity's Core Planets by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's interesting here is that these countries already have plenty of control over the internet at home. They want to extend that control further abroad.

  6. end of US hedgemony is a Good Thing(tm) by 1s44c · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The current situation:
    One country can implement rules to abuse the whole world. Each country can implement rules to screw over its own citizens and manipulate traffic routed though that country. Many countries already abuse their own citizens ( China, UK, Netherlands, etc. )

    Without US control:
    Each country can implement rules to screw over its own citizens and manipulate traffic routed though that country. Many countries already abuse their own citizens ( China, UK, Netherlands, etc. )

    How can this not be a Good Thing(tm)?

    Besides the part in the summary about blocking access via proxy servers is bull. Even with the deep packet inspection currently implemented in the UK they can't block VPN links which can be easily hidden in other traffic.

    1. Re:end of US hedgemony is a Good Thing(tm) by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Be fair. There is a matter of degree. The UK has an extensive internet surveilance system and a secretive committe who have the power to ban any website without any oversight or accountability and maintain a secret blacklist which all ISPs are obliged to block (In the name of fighting child porn, of course), true - but we hardly ever use such powers. China, on the other hand, frequently and as a matter of routine blocks websites for posting non-government-approved oppinions, revealing facts that could impact the government's support, go against the rulers cultural ideals or even that could compete commercially with domestic companies. They may do the same thing, but China does it to a far greater extent. The UK has a lot of catching up to do before it can claim to be in the same category of oppression as China.

    2. Re:end of US hedgemony is a Good Thing(tm) by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One country can implement rules to abuse the whole world.

      It can, yes. But the problem, you see, is that it doesn't.

      Oh sure, it plays fast and loose with its own law enforcement against individual sites and services that piss it off, but it does not implement rules to abuse the world at large. In fact, it doesn't even implement rules at all, for the most part.

      What you're suggesting here is that we trade the potential for abuse of power by a national government that has a track record of avoiding any egregious abuses, for the certainty of abuse of power by a bunch of governments whose history is riddled with examples of some of the most appalling derogations of human rights in the history of the world.

      How can this possibly be a Good Thing(tm)?

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:end of US hedgemony is a Good Thing(tm) by cynyr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      some examples of breakage this would likely cause...

      UK decides that it would like to have control over *.com. Implements rules for it, and give out www.google.com to Microsoft (they paid more). Now what happens in the USA when I ask the root DNS servers for the IP(s) for www.google.com? Do I sometimes get UK Bing?

      If your answer was "simple, each country runs its own namesever!" How do I get to www.bbc.co.uk? Does the BBC have to setup a server in the USA?

      Actully what i think should happen is all non-countrycode TLDs should go away. Then we could have a international internet body (IIB) that basically agrees that the only allowed TLDs are country codes and that each country is responsable for maintaing them. *.com would then become *.com.usa *.gov would become *.gov.usa. In Australia they could have *.com.au, and *.gov.au. This would allow each country to have control, and wouldn't break the internet.

      Also it could be decided by this IIB that all servers must use the country code of the country they are located in. Recognized countries are the same set that the UN recognizes. So if google wants to setup www.google.bz they would have to have at least a forwarding server in Belize.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  7. 'Controlling' the internet? Good luck with that. by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    With today's centralized structure of backbone connections, it shouldn't be too hard for governments to 'squeeze the pipes'. Which for most users, should do the job of blocking 'undesired' sites. I don't see why a government would even need the help of outside organizations (or other countries) for that.

    Technically inclined users will be able to find ways around that. And it'll be very hard (if not impossible) to stop those users. That is, unless a government is prepared to f**k with such basics as encrypted connections. Which would make many legitimate uses (eg. online banking, webmail) impossible too. So from a government's POV it's basically a choice between "no internet at all", or "a mostly controlled internet, but with loopholes for those who know to find them".

    With wireless routers becoming very common, it's not hard to imagine that some mesh networking protocol will pop up. Retrieve firmware from your neighbor (to get around what government allows to be sold commercially), upload to your router @ home, send messages around the net by passing them to a neighbor's router, that router passing it onto the next neighbor, and so forth a 100 times until it reaches its destination. All in P2P style with full use of encryption technology. Maybe not efficient (or a replacement for general web browsing), but good luck blocking that.

  8. Wild west by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nostalgia aside, there are significant parallels to the wild west.

    - The Internet has been a place of wide open spaces and unparalleled freedom.
    - Everybody who wanted to could go stake a claim (domain name) somewhere, for next to nothing.
    - If you don't protect your own turf (Web site, community, etc.), often nobody else will.
    - Peddlers (Web ads) roam around selling goods you probably don't want or need, only to disappear when the goods don't turn out to be what was advertised.
    - Outlaws lurk around the periphery, and sometimes roam around causing damage to established communities, or you own computer.

    The wild west could not stay wild. As it became a more popular place to live, the old free-for-all could no longer be sustained. People demanded security and enforcement of laws to protect themselves and their communities. Whether we like it or not, the same thing will happen / is happening to the Internet. We must be vigilant to ensure that the new, "civilized" Internet is a place where people will want to live.

    1. Re:Wild west by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They wanted laws, not censorship. There is a difference.