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Chinese Firm Wins Bid For US-Backed Battery Maker
theodp writes "On September 13, 2010, President Obama called A123 Systems from the Oval Office to congratulate them on opening the nation's first manufacturing facility to mass-produce electric vehicle batteries, which the White House noted was made possible by a $249 million Recovery Act grant the company received the prior August. 'When folks lift up their hoods on the cars of the future,' the President said, 'I want them to see engines and batteries that are stamped: Made in America. And that's what you guys are helping to make happen.' But on Saturday, the assets of A123 Systems were auctioned off to the Wanxiang Group, a large Chinese auto parts maker. Wanxiang agreed to pay $256 million for A123's automotive and commercial operations, including its three factories in the United States. Forbes reports that A123's stock, which closed at 7 cents a share on Friday, is now worthless."
This is the free market in action. Would you rather the White House block the sale?
But it still sucks.
The Recovery and Investment Act was supposed to stimulate America's economy, not go to further prop up a regime with numerous humans rights violations. The last thing we need is more traffic because of these cheap batteries blowing up on the interstate.
It gets kinda embarrassing when nerds reinforce their own negative stereotypes to proclaim that anything that might actually relevant they're not interested in.
I love Firefly and Game of Thrones as much as the next nerd, but we're not helping our self image by throwing a temper tantrum every time "real" news shows up in the feed.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
the grants are to U.S. based manufacturers and the IP are US ones.
Chinese onwers may get ZIP.
I'd expect to see this in the business section of a news site, not slashdot. This isn't news for businessmen stocks that matter.
The united states of fail giving away their incomptetenly mismanaged and dearly needed money to their future masters. Why keep it partisan when it's your whole nation sinking?
A123 had actual contracts to put batteries in cars and had actual products. Does this mean that electric car batteries are not expensive enough? This is pitiful.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
As of 2012 $129 million of the grant was used to build plants in Michigan (Romulus and Livonia); the remaining grant money has not been tapped (the grant was extended to 2014, but with the company in bankruptcy...) Originally Johnson Controls was going to buy (and use) the plants; it is still unknown if the plants will be used, but speculation is that at least one of the plants will be used. Note that the grants were backed by all of the Michigan members of Congress, despite the party. All of them wrote letters of endorsement to the DOE. The loan program that issued the grants was created in fall of 2008. The loan program predates Obama's presidency; the company applied in January and Obama because president January 2009. Please don't make this a partisan thread. This is what looked like a promising company that had a market in 2009 and needed to build manufacturing capacity - and the market disappeared (Chrysler closing its EV division was the major hit)
Where were A123's "campaign contributions"? Where were the elected representatives busy pulling strings to shield A123 from failure? Where's the legislation to protect them to the detriment of everyone else? Couldn't Obama have started a war and provided some demand for batteries? Democrats have a boner for Hollywood and little else. You want to survive changes of administration? Okay, have all of the following under your business plan:
Oil, corn and military hardware (republicans)
Movies, music and homosexual weddings (democrats)
Gold, guns and assorted supplies for running personal armies and outfitting strongholds (Ron Paul)
That's your Obamanation! I hope you enjoy another four years of it.
If we add that A123 is the sole provider of batteries for the Fisker Karma, would you start to care? That A123 is a provider of MW-scale batteries to AES Corp, for use in windfarm smoothing and grid services?
I would have preferred that the government not gotten in the business of payouts to its campaign contributors, but elections have consequences. Usually corrupt consequences, but what can you do.
Our dictator Stephen Harper will most likely sign the worst deal ever known for Canadians if we don't stop him.
China and Obama!
Public money is best spent on things private companies can't/won't do.
The best long term thing Government can do to help the country is finance research and education that form the building blocks for new companies. By comparison there are boat loads of investment dollars floating around in the private sector, the Government has no special way of knowing who the winners will be over private investors and the dollars are less needed there anyway. Financing companies is much riskier always, I guess I can see floating a loan to an established company in a crisis, but that is about it.
Republicans and, worse yet, Democrats both have become overly hypnotized with the power of "Private Enterprise". But people who run private companies are still just people. Better for Government to refocus on what is does well and assure plentiful funding for that. So if you really want to help produce electric cars, put out money for research at Universities and have open contracts for US manufacturers to sell the Government electric cars.
Xerox Parc were famous for innovating like hell, but being completely unable to monetize that innovation. Other people took their inventions and ran with them.
The USA is doing this on a national level. America innovates -- China, buys or steals the IP, then destroys American business, and yet people whine about the lack of 'pure' free markets, as if the beggar-thy-neighbour, merchantilist Chinese are doing everything they can to destroy Western business.
Time for people, especially the free market idealists to pull their heads out of their arses, and realise that the crypto-fascist Chinese Communist Party is waging a long, generational war against the West, and are hell bent on world domination.
When competing with the Chinese, all options must be on the table. If that means we're not simon-sure free-marketers, so what? If the government puts up seed money to kick-start American national champions and the bet turns sour, so what?
Ideological purity will get us nowhere at the end of the day. Only winning matters. Time to grow some balls, and learn how to fight as dirty as the Red Chinese.
Batteries matter.
It gets kinda embarrassing when nerds reinforce their own negative stereotypes to proclaim that anything that might actually relevant they're not interested in.
I love Firefly and Game of Thrones as much as the next nerd, but we're not helping our self image by throwing a temper tantrum every time "real" news shows up in the feed.
The A123 story has been beaten to death though; this whole story should be modded flamebait since Slashdot editors know full well that the ensuing discussion will be a firestorm of politically motivated bickering that will stretch for 500+ posts (and generate a heap of ad impressions). Sure, for experienced users it's easy to ignore this kind of rabbit hole and never enter the discussion to begin with, but what kind of message are we sending out when the site's most active stories are all political ones? "Real" news would be some breakthrough (or letdown) on a line of battery r&d, or how a company is starting or stopping. This story is barely an addendum to their obituary (already over-covered on slashdot) and it will still get way more attention than a story about Linux or arduinos or other "properly" geeky pursuits.
Free markets are largely fictitious. They can only be maintained through heavy government intervention *cough* anti trust laws *cough* and require strong public infrastructure and an educated population. In short, there is not and never has been a "free market" except that which has been fostered and tended by a government relatively free of corruption. Without this government oversight, a "free market" quickly gets taken over by privately held monopolies that are then leveraged against other markets. The market then degrades into a highly capitalized form of fascism, as is happening now in the USA.
For example, even the USA at its height had much of its "private enterprise" industrial strength funded by public entities. here is an excellent example, makes for a fascinating read.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
If you have to give someone free money to get them to do something, it means it is economically infeasible. Doing such things will always hurt the economy in the long run.
It's a relatively free market here in the US. There is no such thing in China. There is no way a foreign company could buy a bankrupt company in China. They don't even let you do business there without a lot of concession which may involve allowing a Chinese competitor to make your product for their local market while you're allowed to export your shit out of the country. There's also the recent clamp down on export of some raw materials (rare earths) in order to bring their own manufacturers up to speed (Look at the price of NdFeB magnets over the last couple years). Also, the government over there is funding a lot of companies - this one may be partially state owned - I don't recall. Then there's the (lack of) regulatory environment over there which further tilts the playing field. So while it's a free market over here, it's anything but free over there. They view our openness with large grins.
If you view money as wealth you're an idiot. Warren Buffet views ones wealth as how much of the physical and economic world one "owns" - in that light the Chinese are gradually buying America with it's own money, while we have a bunch of dip-shits walking around saying "free market". Nothing good can come of this.
For all the words on this page, there's precious little fact sprinkled in. I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about.
Well since Fisker will probably go bankrupt as well, I might say no. But since China will probably then buy the remains of Fisker perhaps I care a little.
There was an engineering professor in California named Terman who taught his students that they shouldn't just study the technology, they should also look at how to start a business, and keep their eyes out for opportunities.
Two of his students were Hewlett and Packard.
China is not playing chess, they are playing GO (wei chi in Chinese). They have the entire playing field in view and it's huge - both the real world and the board game in the analogy. In chess you have straight forward tactics and what amounts to simple strategies to achieve relatively short term goals - like isolate a pawn or pin down a piece (the king for a win). With GO the game is literally about controlling territory - vast regions or lots of small ones, it doesn't matter - quantity is the only thing that matters. It's a game of world domination.
Is that their goal? I don't know, it's just a better way to play the game.
and bet the company buying the remains of A123 is government funded.
We would have saved USA farms, removed the ethanol subsidy, and had a home grown supply for the Colorado and Washington legalization demand. And we could have reduced the money spent imprisoning pot smokers, and dealt a serious blow to Mexico cartel gangs. Only one problem... we wouldn't have needed $250M in taxpayer funding, they could have accomplished all this success just by executive order, removing marijuana from DEA lists, legalizing it, taxing it, etc.
I don't smoke marijuana (or haven't in decades), but am tired of the prohibition insanity. Maybe the free market capitalists and the capitalism-skeptics on /. can find something here to agree on.
Gently reply
I am really horribly surprised that this isn't mentioned more.
Just 4 months ago Wanxiang offered $450M for 80% of A123. Now Wanxiang got it for $260M. A123 lost it's creditors quite a large chunk of money and now Wanxiang gets control of A123 debt free.
http://insideevs.com/wanxiang-takes-control-of-a123-again-as-it-wins-bankruptcy-auction/
A123 has been horribly mismanaged from the start. People have been clamoring for their cells for years - but they wouldn't sell to anyone but OEMs - so many people took to disassembling packs from drills or more recently buying them off the grey market (eBay).
Their batteries are very good, but they have been plagued by bad business decisions and some bad luck (like the big batch of defective cells they sold to Fiskar costing $55M to replace).
I would have rather seen A123 tech been bought by JCI rather than Wanxiang - I can only hope that they are able to sort out A123s problems and finally get their product to market successfully.
This should have gone to Johnson Controls, not China. I am disgusted that China does not allow any western nation to be majority owner in any Chinese company, but they are allowed to buy our tech at low prices.
Hopefully, the bankruptcy judge nixes this, but I seriously doubt it.
It's time to start buying up American assets with their trade surplus instead of treasuries. They are wising up.
Wanxiang has submitted the highest bid, but it has not been approved by the bankruptcy courts. There are a number of senators who are trying to have the buyout blocked because of A123's relationship with the Dept. of Defense. So while it's looking like our tech is heading East, it's not a forgone conclusion.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121209/AUTO01/212090327/1148/rss25
"But the sale excludes A123’s business with the United States government and its military contracts. That portion of the company will be sold to a small energy company based in Illinois, Navitas Systems, for $2.2 million."
Damn right. It's not really corporate welfare, because that implies you KEEP the corporation propped up. It's straight out cronyism and a deliberate policy of raping your own taxpayers and transferring wealth overseas.
Americans should not have any bars when it comes to face a COMMUNIST country.
Hmmm... remind me what would you call the "bailout" that saved some American banks? Or the GM one?
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Time to stamp them down before they resurrect!
remind me what would you call the "bailout" that saved some American banks
Graft and corruption
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
No shit. I did not know that. Interesting stuff.
Not sarcasm. Wow am I tired of feeling the need to say that haha.
You cannot just finger point something and say it's communism and thus evil, just because it was financed by the government, it's not that simple. I am not saying that bank bailouts were good or bad. I'm just trying to make the point that ideology alone is not sufficient to make political decisions.
Would you say that Interstate Highways are communist? Maybe they are, but they are essential to the competitiveness of the US economy. Some people have never been on a highway in their entire life, but their taxes were still used to build these highways.
Similarly, banks are very important to the US economy. Not because of their direct contribution to the GDP, but because they provide an essential service to the economy. Had the banking system collapsed in 2008, it would have had very significant consequences. A few examples: how do you cash your paycheck when your bank is shut down? How do you pay for your groceries when the bank that emitted your credit card is shut down? How does your company get paid for the goods and services it provides, when its bank is shut down? How will you retire when your lifetime savings disappear when your bank goes bankrupt?
Again, I'm not saying that bailing out banks was good or bad. I'm saying that it wasn't an easy decision to take, and that it was done for a reason. Saying it's communism does not help much in the debate.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
First:
I don't want my government run according to your parenting philosophy.
It sounds like a bad parody of a Monty Python skit.
You seem to be saying that the GOP feels that spin, sarcasm, misleading statements, and lack of trust, etc., are the way to govern/run a country?
NO, THANK YOU!
Second:
Your parenting style sucks donkey bollocks.
Seek therapy/counseling ASAP, for your kid's sake.
How do you expect your kids to become 'rational beings' with your example for them to follow.
I feel sorry for your kids, and all that will have to interact with your kids in the future.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Would you say that Interstate Highways are communist? Maybe they are, but they are essential to the competitiveness of the US economy. Some people have never been on a highway in their entire life, but their taxes were still used to build these highways.
Agreed. But allow me to restate: to certain problems, the appropriate solutions. And let the ideology aside
Again, I'm not saying that bailing out banks was good or bad. I'm saying that it wasn't an easy decision to take, and that it was done for a reason. Saying it's communism does not help much in the debate.
Do you feel you know well the problems in China? Are you absolutely sure that what their are doing now is springing from an ideology?
Because if not, why tag China as communist (as the post I was replying did)? How would this help the debate?
Some notes: /sq.km.
* China - population 1,347,350,000, population density: 141
* US - population: 314,931,000, population density: 34/sq km
The above consideration alone would make one think that maybe, just maybe, the Chinese society is pushed into favoring cooperation as a successful survival behavior and thus stays away from the individualism so characteristic to nowadays US. What the Americans calls "cheating", the Chinese may call "sharing" (you know? One of the values parents used to teach the kids a while back. Are they still teaching it now?)
How does adopting an ideologically rooted terminology helps one understand and deal with the actual realities in China?
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
just tax the hell out of them. Believe it or not people aren't just going to leave this country. At least not if we don't send our Military to help them when they get in a bind in a foreign country. If they want to go home that's fine, but they don't get to take the ball. It's ours.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Trolling for page views. Slanted political pieces are possibly even better than Apple/Samsung/Google/Microsoft hit pieces. Just as biased and uninformed (from the headline down to the -1 comments) but reach out to a broader base.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
n/t
A123 is the new Acme...