Slashdot Mirror


Ask Slashdot: Facebook, Twitter For Business, Is It Worth the Privacy Trade-Off?

cayenne8 writes "I've been a staunch advocate of NOT joining Facebook or Twitter or the other social networks to protect my privacy and to not voluntarily give all my personal information away to corporate America, or even the Government. However, I'm beginning to look into making money through various means on the side, one of them being photography/videography. With these mediums, being seen is critically important. Having a business facing site on Facebook/Google+ and even using Twitter can be great for self promotion, and can open up your business to a huge audience. If you were to open your FB and other social network accounts with business ONLY information, and keep your personal information (name, image, etc) off the Facebook account...will this keep your personal privacy still from them, or are their algorithms good enough to piece together who you are from the business only sites? Is the payoff worth the potential trade-off for generating potential customers for your business and guiding them to your primary website?"

33 of 158 comments (clear)

  1. Cookies and referers by Albanach · · Score: 4, Interesting

    See all those sites you visit with a facebook like button. Those images are usually served from facebook, not the site you're visiting.

    So, unless you're careful with your privacy settings, you are likely reporting a huge amount of your browsing to facebook.

    At the very least, I'd recommend logging out of facebook when you're done and trying to browse with 3rd party cookies disabled.

    1. Re:Cookies and referers by Albanach · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are you basically saying IF I did set up the business account, to make sure I was not logged into that business FB account when browsing around from one of my computers?

      I was replying on the presumption that you have no way to avoid a FB account in the line of work you want to pursue and that you'd like to protect your privacy as much as possible.

      Assuming that's the case, I'd make sure I was logged out of the account. Others have suggested there might be plugins that can help by blocking these links from third party websites, and I think that too would be worth your exploring.

      Social networks can only build a picture of you based upon what you give them. The trouble is that it's very very easy to not even realize you're giving them vast quantities of personal information as you browse third party websites.

    2. Re:Cookies and referers by edibobb · · Score: 4, Funny

      Aw, man... I've been doing it backwards!

    3. Re:Cookies and referers by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Facebook doesn't sell user info.

      I thought they did, but only indirectly.

      You can't buy the names and addresses of people from them, but you can request an ad be shown to gay males between 20 and 25 living in the Houston area, then it's up to you to track the IP addresses from your Facebook campaign, and gather the IPs from those people. You can now track them all you like by IP, place cookies (even malicious ones, if you don't mind getting banned from advertising again).

    4. Re:Cookies and referers by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      Hopefully the posting, not the underwear.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    5. Re:Cookies and referers by mlts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My mind gets blown by sites that demand you authenticate from FB in order to use functions like posting, seeing pictures, and other stuff.

      Call me crazy, but basic security 101 just says that you don't trust another site with the keys to your kingdom... especially with zero assurance that it might even work.

    6. Re:Cookies and referers by Roderic9 · · Score: 2, Informative

      My own experiments show that the facebook cookie is transferred by the site to Facebook even if you have logged out. The only way to ensure that facebook doesn't follow you around is to delete its cookies before going anywhere else.

    7. Re:Cookies and referers by hawkinspeter · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hosts file? Where can I find an expert to outline the benefits of that method?

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    8. Re:Cookies and referers by CaptainJeff · · Score: 2

      I'll always register a new account (usually easy enough) if I really want - too worried about such sites snooping my passwords.

      When you use a federated single-sign-on capability like this, your password is NEVER sent to the service provider (the one you're logging in to using you Yahoo/Facebook/Google/etc account). It is only sent to the authenticating service (the identity provider), who already has it, and then that provider generates a signed message in a specific format (OpenID, SAML, etc) that vouches for your identity to the other site. In this model, your password is actually exposed LESS than if you create an account at the site in question.

  2. Yes, and use a one-time-only address by jfruh · · Score: 5, Informative

    Having a social media presence is pretty crucial to doing the sort of freelance work you're describing, since so much of how you get business happens via word of mouth (and so much of "word of mouth" happens on social media).

    One of the simplest things you can do to protect your privacy is to create an email addres that you *only* use for social media accounts (like, a special gmail address that just forwards mail to your regular adress, or maybe facebook@yourdomain.com if you own your own domain). This rather horrifying article from the WSJ about the way that social media tracking work makes clear that your email address is a big part of how your identity is tracked online. If they can't match the email address you use for your Facebook login with any other aspects of your online identity, you have some protections.

    If you're using them strictly as a business tool, I wouldn't worry too much about photos -- I do think it's helpful to have a photo of yourself, especially in a one-to-one business like freelance photography. You can set your Facebook account so other people can't tag you in their photos.

    1. Re:Yes, and use a one-time-only address by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      Agreed... people are more likely to choose your business when they can connect the business with a face.

      Well, actually, a lot of the photographers that are donig well, on some webinars on CreativeLive...have been saying they found that posting TOO many pics on the FB account was detrimental.

      They mentioned to have your branding/logo stuff there, and a few of the high quality images, some of clients you've shot, but that the main thing you wanted to do with it, was to use the FB account to drive traffic to your main website.

      As for the email address. Can you register FB with one email (say, made up only for that logong), but in your FB text about yourself, have your company email address there? Would that cause any 'confusion' with FB, or d they suck up and use ANY information in your descriptions and your registration info?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Yes, and use a one-time-only address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For freelance yes social media is or can be a huge part of your networking, but for more established companies, this can often be just a big waste of energy and capital and time. There are lots of studies and anecdotes all over the place signing praise and scorn about social media for business, but if you look for numbers, the real hard numbers behind conversions and ROI for social media campaigns, they're either hard to find or embarrassingly bad.

      For example there was a widely publicized "case study" that the bloggers went nuts over a few years ago, one I like to keep around and show my bosses, etc. They compared walmart and target social media campaigns, call walmart dumb and said their campaign failed, called target smart and successful. But, both spent close to a million dollars on this crap and if you look at the actual numbers their cost per conversion was absurdly high and it would be quite a feat to say they achieved an ROI on those campaigns. Target, the "successful" one, spent $500,000 on their campaign and netted a glorious 7,100 members. Even a modest website can generate that kind of traffic in a month with minimal effort.

      Marketers love to go on about social media because of how successful it can be, and how low cost, but they always gloss over the time element. You have to be active and on it all the time to get anything out of it, what does that cost? It's time expensive, and that always goes directly back to money expensive, by labor or by your own opportunity cost, so it's just... well it's just expensive. It's like saying "hey do you want free energy, have some people turn the crank of this generator all day ... see free energy!" The only people who really get anything from it is the guy who sells the generator, or facebook.

      Basically it's good for people who have more time than money, and need customers, after that, it's really awful and burdensome and will usually cost you in the long run if you want to maintain it. Run a business not a social club. Get customers, not friends.

  3. They are that good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Their little data bots are good enough that they already have information on you whether you have an account or not. You and your browser are traceable if you visit any websites with their widgets, whether you are signed in or not. Just bite the bullet and set up a business account already and stop worrying. You aren't that special.

    Having a Facebook has certainly helped my business' promotion, it gets a lot more eyes visit our websites.

    1. Re:They are that good by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      Their little data bots are good enough that they already have information on you whether you have an account or not. You and your browser are traceable if you visit any websites with their widgets, whether you are signed in or not. Just bite the bullet and set up a business account already and stop worrying.

      Well, my browsers have Ghostery, no script and adblock on them, I honestly don't usually notice seeing any FB links or 'likes' on most websites I visit...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  4. What are the other options? by illumnatLA · · Score: 2

    What are your other options for self promotion? Ad in the newspaper? How many people will see it let alone act on it these days? Ad on TV? Is the Return of Investment worth it for what you're trying to do?

    Really, for better or worse "social" media is the best way to reach a target audience.

    --
    Web hosting that doesn't suck!Dreamhost
    1. Re:What are the other options? by scsirob · · Score: 2

      Just make an entry on your website named "Why am I not on Facebook". Explain why you do not join the rage and that you value privacy. Don't make it a rant, just state that you see no value in opening up your life there.You'll attract people who appreciate your value on privacy. They will know that *their* privacy is safe in your hands.

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
  5. of course not by fish+waffle · · Score: 3, Funny

    anything connected somehow is trackable somehow and eventually will be.

    ...unless you're clever, like Ronald McDonald or Colonel Sanders, the real identities of which are still mysteries.

    1. Re:of course not by msauve · · Score: 3, Informative

      Colonel Harland David Sanders (September 9, 1890 â" December 16, 1980) was an American businessman and restaurateur who founded the Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) restaurant chain.

      Really.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  6. Any studies that show by future+assassin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    >>>Having a business facing site on Facebook/Google+ and even using Twitter can be great for self promotion, and can open up your business to a huge audience

    actually increases sales?

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Any studies that show by grcumb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >>>Having a business facing site on Facebook/Google+ and even using Twitter can be great for self promotion, and can open up your business to a huge audience

      actually increases sales?

      That's a really good question.

      I've run a photography website for 9 years, promoting Vanuatu, a tiny but beautiful chain of islands in the South Pacific. Traffic has always been low but steady, and Google image search gives me a decent ranking for my decidedly niche category.

      In August, I got recruited to manage the Humans of Vanuatu Facebook page. The page is still tiny by global standards, but I get people visiting from around the world, a ton of positive feedback and a steadily increasing and solid fan base. I've been featured in an online culture magazine, and now have a regular series in a decent (4 color glossy) lifestyle magazine that focuses on the South Pacific. Three musicians have asked to use my work in their cover art, the local newspaper has offered me a regular feature and I've been solicited to shoot more weddings than I want to[*].

      In terms of actual revenue, the jury's still out. I have seen an uptick in website visits, but the vast majority of people prefer to wait for my daily posts. I haven't tried to leverage it much yet, but I've been asked to do an exhibition early next year, with the proceeds going to charity. If that goes well, then maybe I'll try selling prints or a book online.

      Best I can suggest at the moment is that a Facebook presence emphatically does increase your exposure, mostly because of what they call 'virality' - the fact that whenever someone Likes a photo of mine, all their friends see it too. This means that I get about ten times as many eyes as I have fans. Will this translate to money? Not sure yet. Why not Like my page and follow me to find out? 8^)

      --------
      [*] In fairness, I just loathe shooting weddings. So one would be too many.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  7. Privacy is an illusion by devforhire · · Score: 2

    They already have or can gain easy access to all that information. The govt already has a ton of info on you, tax records, dmv, etc. Business do also (you prolly get junk mail every day addressed to you.) It's a fact of life, it sucks, but thinking you can erase or hide your digital or paper trail is foolish. If you want to protect privacy spend your time fighting to protect it, don't waste it trying to hide.

    1. Re:Privacy is an illusion by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They already have or can gain easy access to all that information. The govt already has a ton of info on you, tax records, dmv, etc. Business do also (you prolly get junk mail every day addressed to you.) It's a fact of life, it sucks, but thinking you can erase or hide your digital or paper trail is foolish. If you want to protect privacy spend your time fighting to protect it, don't waste it trying to hide.

      Well, actually....after Katrina, I fell off a LOT of lists, and over the years, I've been pretty careful to not put my personal name out there again. I get very little junk snail mail. Over the past year, I've gotten a few. But moving around so much after the storm, addresses changed often, and I was lax in catching up most anything to those.

      Heck, even now, my car registration says out Parish, my drivers license say another one and another address, from the parish I currently live in right now.

      Registering for voting was a fun exercise, let me assure you that.

      :)

      No, I'm not invisible by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don't go out of my way to give information out to companies out there, I actually go out of my way to give disinfromaton whenever I can. Customer store cards, in some I'm a 98 yr old Hispanic lady name Sven, whose shopping habits HAVE to skew their system a bit, and most any time I fill out anything that isn't legal, I fudge the years and dates around, give out wrong or partially wrong names, etc. Anything that goes into a non-legal database usually has misguided information about me, but often to the correct address.

      It is funny to see some junk mail that arrives here that comes from the fscked up data I give them.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Privacy is an illusion by devforhire · · Score: 2

      I salute you, noise is most likely the best way to protect yourself. I do the same from time to time also. My main point is the effective use of time, if you can easily be invisible by all means be invisible and I sincerely hope you can stay that way. But once the helicopter spot light is on you, it might not be worth the effort to get back into the shadows. But that is for each of us to decided.

  8. So let me get this straight by enjar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You want to start working freelance and you don't want to publicize how people can reach you? I'd expect a decent head shot, a phone number, a short bio and an email address. Also representative galleries of past work, as well.

    You don't have to put your life story out there, but it's really not uncommon in business to have some small amount of "About Me" information posted with experience, education, sometimes martial status/number of children (especially if you are looking to photograph families/children).

    If you are going to set up a social media presence, you can't just set up a page and have it sit there. It does require tending and maintenance or it looks abandoned. If you do photography, post examples of good work at a steady pace, even if it's not paying gigs. Hopefully people forward it around and you get some notice.

    It sounds like you need to loosen up, or find another way of making money on the side that doesn't require social media. You can be a successful freelander without it, but you will still need to get your name out there somehow (personal networking, business networking groups, etc)

    1. Re:So let me get this straight by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      martial status

      I'm a corporal and I know ninjutsu.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  9. Ghostery by Frankie70 · · Score: 4, Informative

    See all those sites you visit with a facebook like button. Those images are usually served from facebook, not the site you're visiting.

    Ghostery blocks them

  10. Twitter: yes. Facebook: No. by Zadaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think Twitter is worth it because there are very few privacy concerns. Twitter is 98% public, and everyone who participates knows it. (I hope.)

    Facebook is a privacy nightmare, and is crap for driving business to your web site. It does everything it can to keep all information on Facebook, including jerking everyone around. And that will only increase.

    Once you post something on either service it's out of y our control. With Twitter it's pretty minor, 140 characters, and it will be gone eventually. (I believe they only archive the last 2000 Tweets or so.) Facebook is trying to make a timeline of people's entire lives and won't stop trying to make money off your content until well after you're dead.

  11. Re:online name by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've used my real name thousands of times on the Internet. I got paid $1000 for reviewing a book once, based on a letter to the editor I wrote once, using my real name and email. I've had people track me down 10 years later to send an email to me, after having seen me post something (I'm not sure what), or get a hit on my name from something else. But no bad has ever happened to me, nor has anything ever happened that I would consider a "close call".

    I'm ok posting real info, and I don't get the paranoia. What could possibly go wrong?

  12. Segregated logins by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

    Personally I had (past tense) a fb account but I haven't used it for many years.

    But my business does have a fb presence - it has its own fb account and in the office a cpu is dedicated for that fb account.

    Nothing important is on that dedicated cpu - so all the info fb can obtain from that dedicated machine is the ip (static) and the hw/sw info.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Segregated logins by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Funny
      Thank you!!

      That dedicated PC idea is fantastic!! I'll definitely use that one!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  13. How much does it *really* help? by bradley13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I see lots of businesses investing in Facebook and Twitter. This is driven by the marketing departments, and especially the younger staff that wants to prove something. Maybe I'm an old geezer, but I am not convinced - in the businesses I am familiar with, I haven't seen any sort of believable results, and the marketing departments can't produce any numbers, only "trust us, we know what we're doing".

    Has anyone seen actual, solid numbers from any business that prove that these marketing channels were worth the investment? If so, for what type of business?

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  14. Re:online name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ever post something controversial on Usenet? Google Groups search will make sure that if you were flamed or ridiculed for it, that it is on the first page of search results.

  15. I was a stauch advocate.. by msobkow · · Score: 2

    The article reads as "I was a staunch advocate for privacy until I realized I could make money by selling my soul."

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.