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Ask Slashdot: How To Collect Payments From a Multinational Company?
An anonymous reader writes "I run a small dev shop focused on web development, based in Europe. For the past six years we've had lots of successful projects with clients from CEE, Western Europe and the U.S. One of our main clients was based in the U.S. We started working for them in 2008, while they were a 'promising start-up' and everything went smoothly until they were bought by a multinational corp. We couldn't be happier to work for such a big player in the market, andwe even managed to get by with huge payment delays (3-4 months on a monthly contract), but now, after more than two years working for them, I have the feeling we're getting left out. We have six-month-old unpaid invoices and we're getting bounced between the E.U. and U.S. departments every time we try to talk to them. What can a small company do to fight a big corporation that's NASDAQ listed and has an army of lawyers? They've been getting a lot of bad press lately so I don't think that will scare them either."
Name and shame.
And point out that they're costing jobs by not paying invoices.
So there I was, scribbling down some notes off the PC screen by hand, when I reached for the keyboard and Ctrl-S'd.
Send them an invoice with the maximum late payment penalty that the law AT BOTH SIDES allows, with a giant red statement that they're half a year late, and send it it to the person responsible, with a clear explanation of how much each increased payment delay costs.
If they delay you even one month beyond that, send a new invoice with the expected increase, and cc: it with a copy of all the others you've sent to the person responsible, their manager, accounts receivable, and the office of the president.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
The anti-union types will hate this idea, but STOP WORKING FOR THEM!
If you're essential they'll find a way to pay you.
Three Squirrels
have an attorney in the usa draft them a letter asking for a simple explanation along with a detailed sequence of events.
this will mean they will ask their own attorney to give a response.
their own attorney will tell them they better avoid legal issues over a startup purchase. how would google look if it didnt pay off youtube debt holders when buying the site?
File a lien against them, and make sure you inform Dun and Bradstreet of the lien.
They do business in EU, as do you. The solution should be obvious. Drag them into court.
I've been in IT at a major corp and had a supplier that I worked with personally come to me due to non-payment. I had to go pretty far up my chain of command before I found someone who would apply pressure to finance to pay up on the contract that they signed and approved. Had I not been there to facilitate it would have taken even longer, if they got paid at all. The supplier was international so they got a runaround. Wish I had a better answer, but finance depts sometimes like to collect interest on their bank accounts even at the expense of the company's reputation.
Find a tentacle close to you and say that you have to pay rent so sadly you're going to have to sue said tentacle. Take an an onion and maybe a friendly, competent, but not-massively-expensive lawyer.
In the UK, any invoice not paid for 21 days beyond the agreed date renders the non-payer liable to liquidation. Liquidating clients is not great (though you should have acted on your credit control rather sooner) but I once had to threaten a major banking client with it and at the end of a memorable Friday I got my very very overdue money and my client got itself a new head of accounts, and I found that I had a few powerful friends inside the company amongst those pleased with my work for them.
6 months is technically known as "taking the piss".
Stop doing any further work until you get some sort of staged payment started, or start legal action. If you're entitled to the money and you take it slowly and gently and without grandstanding, you may well get it, and may even keep the client.
Start credit control earlier in future: that's your responsibility to limit damage.
Rgds
Damon
http://m.earth.org.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien
It might be too late and you'll need the assistance of an attorney familiar with international contracts. But the next time the board of directors flies that company jet into St. Moritz, its yours.
Have gnu, will travel.
Keep in mind that this is a huge bad sign. Either they don't have the money, they are too disorganized to pay some small fry, or they are just bad people. Any which way that is not how to run a business.
A potentially similar sign came shortly before the big sub prime disaster. A guy had money in a Big Euro Bank money market fund which, in theory, will return your money in about 24 hours. So a really good deal came up on a house (house prices were about to crash but hadn't yet) and he needed a big down payment of a million dollars. So he goes to his guy and says, "Withdraw a million." the guy invokes some obscure clause and says NO. He freaks out and then demands all his money. They say they can delay something like 30 or 90 days and they do. So it turns out to be fortunate and he misses out on the house and eventually gets his money. But when I told this to a person I know who is a huge trader he just told me I was wrong wrong wrong, the Big Euro Bank was probably the most sound bank in the world and that they were old and had a huge reputation and wouldn't screw someone like that in a million years. He went on to say my money market friend was probably lying to cover up the fact that he was out of money, not the bank. Needless to say that bank went right to the brink and without government intervention would have died.
The take-away is that either the people who are handling your account are incompetent, are mean, or that you now have a valuable insight into a company on the brink.
If you are providing ongoing work, use that as leverage. Inform the client that work will cease until they are current, this is VERY effective if there are open issues that the client wants fixed.
You could also send them an invoice along with a letter stating that the invoice is overdue and will go into collections if not paid within 30 days. You should be able to find a collection agency pretty easily, many of them work by buying the debt from you at ~25 cents on the dollar. Many companies will try to avoid collection as it will impact their D&B rating.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law - Aleister Crowley
Are you still working with them / do you want to continue working with them? If so, the approaches you might take may well be different to those if you were "just" after your money.
I've not idea where you live, but it's worth being careful that breaching a contract yourself (such as failing to provide services which you are obliged to provide) is not excused on the basis that the other party is not complying with its obligations — unless your contract says that you can stop providing services if you have not been paid, simply ceasing to do so might put yourself in breach. But consider what the risk is to you, if the company really is that far behind in payments to you.
Depending on where you are, how about a letter before action — that, unless you are paid, you will take legal action? Depending on the sum you are owed, you might have a route through a local small claims procedure, even a money claim online — if it's a case of a project manager causing delays to try and stretch their budget, this approach might just get it before the company's legal team. If you've got as strong a case as your summary suggests (that might be a big "if," of course), it may be in the company's interests just to settle, to avoid litigation; you may just be looking for their legal department to put a boot up the backside of the relevant business unit to stop messing about and get it paid. If no response, go to court seeking default judgment, or perhaps see if local laws support you applying for the company to be wound up on the grounds that it is not able to meet its liabilities as they are due — even if you do not want to wind the company up (you want your money), it can take something as drastic as this to get someone to sit up and take notice.
Some companies publicise their CEO's details — try looking for those, and writing directly. Else, write a snail mail letter to the CEO's office, or the head of legal, explaining the problem succinctly, and asking that they personally attend to getting the matter fixed.
If you have no other way in, contacting them via Twitter might work, even if they are already receiving bad press — as long as you are polite and accurate, could it do anything but help at the cost of a few (more minutes) of your time?
Many lawyers will offer a free / fixed fee initial consultation — if nothing else, find out how much they would charge to take your case. Push for a fixed fee; you'll pay more for the certainty, but you will have certainty rather than billable hours which are harder to control. If the cost of getting a lawyer involved increases the likelihood of recovery sufficiently, you'll get less overall than you were hoping for, but that might be better than nothing.
I dealt with this, myself. I worked as a hired gun for a very large TV marketing company in the US that decided they didn't want to pay me for my work as a developer. I regular ol' lawyer got me paid in a matter of hours (minus his cut, of course) by contacting their legal department. They were clearly wrong, and didn't want to spend more than a few minutes' of their legal time looking into it, so I was paid the same day my attorney first contacted them. It was for an amount in the low 5-figures.
Of course, I didn't want to have to pay an attorney every time I wanted to get paid for a job, so I quit working with those kinds of companies.
I don't respond to AC's.
For several years, I also ran a software business in Europe. When we started, our attorney had one bit of advice: never take a customer in the USA. We made exactly one exception, out of good will, and - sure enough, we regretted it.
If you are not based in the USA, it simply isn't worth the hassle and the risk. If they don't sue you (screw your contract, they'll sue you in a US court, which will claim jurisdiction using the long-arm doctrine), they'll screw you (as you are experiencing).
It doesn't help you in your situation, you're already there. However, for anyone else who may not yet have taken the plunge, don't. Ethics and law in the US reminds me of adventures in third world countries - it's just as dishonest and corrupt, only with prettier window dressing.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
I feel your pain. Solution: Pretend to be on good terms with them. Get yourself involved in a critical new project, then halt abruptly right when they need your work the most. Offer them an ultimatum - either pay up all the outstanding money or you are walking. After a brief round of bluffing, you will be surprised at how fast your bill gets paid.
STOP GIVING THEM UNPAID WORK! One of two things has happened here:
1. They can't or won't pay you. By refusing to work anymore you're effectively cutting your losses by not giving them more work that won't be compensated.
2. They have their heads up their ass. They want to pay you, but they can't figure it out. In this case, not working will light a fire under their ass and they'll pay you.
Moving forward, make sure that your contract contains a late payment fee. Also, make sure it specifies who is responsible for paying you and who will be held responsible for non-payment. GET A LAWYER INVOLVED TO DRAFT THIS NEW CONTRACT. Don't try to do it yourself, it won't work.
In any case, if they don't pay you within the month then you need to talk to a lawyer about suing them.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
Best advice my old boss gave me just before I left Big Corp to be a freelancer:
"Find the person (individual) in Accounts Payable who will actually process your invoice, and make friends. Show the person a sample of your invoices and ask if it is in the format they prefer. If not, alter the invoice till it is easiest possible to process (if necessary, split it in two to get amounts below the authorisation limits for the person you are doing work for so that it doesn't have to be escalated unnecessarily). Then when you have done work, and have prepared the invoice, get it signed off, and take it to your friend in Accounts Payable and hand it to them, or at least put it on their desk. Buy flowers or chocolates for this person on their birthday and Christmas, and whenever they have helped you, if they can accept such. At the very least be friendly, polite, and respectful. This approach not only sharply increases your chances of getting paid on time, it also means that when you don't get paid, you have an insider that you can ask what went wrong, so you can put it right."
I have used this approach at many clients, and it really helps.
"Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
Step 1, send an invoice with clear payment terms.
Step 2, send one polite reminder maybe 7 days after the due date.
Step 3, send a Letter Before Action, with a further 7 day deadline (use a firm like thomashiggins.com to turn the legal wheels very cheaply)
Step 4, file a claim in the small claims court (again, thomashiggins.com are very good for this). It may take weeks but you can add interest and all the costs you've incurred.
The few times I've done this (as a consumer) the company has coughed up at some point just before or just after the court papers have gone in. For a truly hopelessly disorganised company this is the only escalation method that works.
The furthest it ever got was with Enterprise car rentals - I had a bailiff threaten to tow one of their vehicles before they would write a cheque.
This is all advice for uncontested debts - obviously if the company has a problem with the debt they may choose to represent themselves and argue the point, but if they were going to do that, they'd probably have engaged you first!
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
The odds are that if OP didnt give us the name, its because he/she was not authorized to do so by superiors / legal department. Publicly calling someone out like that without being cleared first is a bad idea: for the poster, it could potentially cost their job, and for the company it could start a defamation lawsuit.
In a similar situation a friend of mine sent his "CFO", a very persistant slightly weird looking math professor, who happened not to believe in shoes....
He went to the company very politely presenting his set of invoices, and various "excuses" sent out in form of emails, and requesting to see his "equivalent" (their CFO), he spent two days comming at soon as they openned the office and leaving when they closed....
They could have called the cops, and threatened too, he explained that they could, his lawyer was waiting in front of the relevant police station just in case...
They could refuse to let him see their CFO, he didn't mind the lobby was warm and they had a coffee machine, and he brought newspapers and food.
They could throw him out, he had friends at various newspapers.
So he saw the CFO, who tried to explain that there was some reasons not to pay, so he called the office on his mobile phone putting it on speaker...
And for everything the CFO said the company had three people calling at once, on all numbers they had of anybody, and norbert made if very clear that he would not leave without closing all the loops and the cash...
Epilog, the company finally nervous accountant sent a payment order to their bank, and a copy to the company (on the insistance of norbert) the company sent a copy to the clients bank and to their bank to make sure that there was no error...
So they ended up being paid twice....
The client to "save face" and stop thinking about sent an "avoir" wich means the the company should provide an equivalent discount on future work...
Of course they never planned to bid on any new projects with this client....
Norbert got a large box of havanas...
If you're an individual, you can get the US Department of Labor to go to bat for you. They take an EXTREMELY dim view of businesses that don't pay for labor. (I was once on the receiving end from them -- long story, it was dispute with employee who would just come in to work without authorization and stack up hours, then complained when we didn't pay him -- and even though we were in the right in that particular dispute, WOW were they a pain to deal with.)
As others have suggested, you also do need to talk to an attorney -- but unless the invoices represent many thousands of dollars, it may not be worth it.
As for the comments here about how corporations can "rip you off" -- the deep, dark secret; the unspoken truth is, if someone won't pay you, your options are limited. Whether it's a neighbor who owes you for a lawn mower or a big corporation that owes you for work and services, you can take them to court, obtain a judgment, then execute same. It takes quite a while, though -- many, many months.
If the other party *can't* pay you, here's an even deeper secret: you're out of luck. Unless they have assets that you can seize, there's not a court in the United States that can force someone to invent money with which to pay you. I realize that's probably not the case here, but I state that just for completeness. Even if you win a judgment in court, if the other party CAN'T pay you, you have a pretty piece of paper and absolutely no money.
Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
Since I didn't see a ton of comments posted by people who have experience with this, I thought I'd add one.
Delayed payment is normal. Large companies have very complex rules about how to make payments and how to process invoices. You must be extremely persistent and gracious in order to get things resolved. Each company will respond differently, but I encourage you to make use of some (if not all) of these following tactics:
1) Get a "Master Vendor Agreement" in place with the customer that states invoicing terms. This contract may take months to negotiate and require guidance from a lawyer. Once this is done, all of your projects should be addendums to this original master vendor agreement. This reduces the amount of paperwork the large multinational company has to do to validate each of your invoices and speeds them up.
2) Provide both a discount for early payment and a penalty for late payment. Annotate these discounts & payments on each invoice. If you carefully track your effort, you can know how much it costs you to track long term overdue payments. You can use this to determine how much of a discount you can offer for prompt payment.
3) Designate someone within your company as the "Accounts Receivable" person. It is their job to contact each customer with an overdue payment once per month (or week). They should very carefully take notes on all of their conversations and correspondence, but they _must_ be friendly and relaxed. The goal is to establish a positive rapport with the "accounts payable" person on the other side. It may take dozens of polite phonecalls to get routed to the correct person though, so you absolutely must be willing to put in the effort while not creating bad will.
4) Be gracious when payment is offered. Many times, companies may refuse to pay late payment fees; you can simply say, "I'll remove the late payment fee if you wire the money by tomorrow".
5) If desired, you can contact your bank to find out if they will finance your receivables. Some banks will provide you with cash up front (and charge you a fee) since they know how this process works.
6) Don't harass your point of contact until the invoice is more than a reasonable amount late. Generally, in a big company, the person who signs the contract doesn't even know the person who actually pays the bill. You want to avoid harassing your point of contact (who is usually your biggest fan) until you really need their help getting the bill paid.
7) Know your customers' "approval limits". Generally, executives at a large company will have specific approval levels - for maybe $500 they can simply file an expense report; for $2500 they have to file one form with one signature, and for more than that they have to get approval from a VP level person. If you can keep your projects small enough, you can bypass some of the challenges.
8) Once you've read lots of advice on slashdot and picked a strategy, contact a lawyer before doing anything. Most lawyers will be able to confirm whether your plans follow the law quickly. It'll only cost you a small amount.
And finally, remember, "managing receivables" is part of the cost of doing business with large companies. Factor it into your project costs.
Agreed with most of what Joce640k writes.
The most likely explanation is not malice, but that the right person hasn't done their goods receipt so A/P can release the funds. Or they made a screw-up, closed a project or a funding source by mistake, and now need to go through three levels of horror and approvals to get the funding back.
Go and see a lawyer. The charge for the few hours of work will sting but it's surely going to be much less than you're owed. Take careful note of Step 2. Well, ask the lawyer about step 2 and take careful note of what they say. If you can do so, cease your work (hopefully you've got short term work you can get your employees to do in the meantime) and let the client know politely why you're doing so. (Get the lawyer to do it; they're much better at that kind of thing, and they're not going to get emotional. As Joce640k says, businesses are run by grown-ups.) It may feel satisfying to write a screed of anger, but it doesn't get results in the business world. Go out for a drink with a friend and rant to them, if you'll feel better. But be professional in your business dealings.
If lawyer says you can go ahead and stop working on this contract until things get resolved, then l
I wouldn't advise approaching the competitor, at least until you've heard the lawyer's opinion (yes, that too could be a breach of contract on your part).
Don't try the "name and shame" game. As others point out:
* Beware of libel lawsuits. ... that will agree to publish (newspapers are afraid of libel too, and it's probably not that interesting as a story, and classifieds in a big paper/commercial site are more expensive than the lawyer option)? ...that's big enough that the company will notice?
* Where will you go for the "naming" part?
*
*
* And even if they notice, they most likely won't care.
Just in case anyone thinks this is a good idea (and evidently some of you do, as this is currently scored +4 Insightful)...
No. Don't. You'll be sued, and you'll lose.
It might feel good. It might seem fair. There are plenty of people here who'll say they deserve it. They may even be somewhat correct. Don't do it.
If they're a large multi-national corporation, however, I doubt an external small vendor would have access to do this, fortunately.
Lastly, one should always carefully consider if one really wants to take advice from someone who's suggesting quite major actions of high impact and who gets confused between simple homonyms. (Joe_Dragon, you mean "their".)
You call the switchboard (it can take some digging) and request the office of the CEO, or (better) send an email to the entire executive suite. Frequently email addresses are publicly available or are some variant of first.last@example.com.
I've utilized both techniques at various times.
While travelling in Australia with an (I was told at the sales location) International-capable SIM-swappable phone, that I found out was in fact locked, I emailed the CEO of Cingular, copying a good friend of mine who covers the mobile sector for a tech publication, requesting the phone be unlocked (this after several rounds of frustration on long-distance international tech support). My host was awakened at 5am by a call from the US the next morning.
On discovering significant 419 spam transiting through Microsoft's Hotmail servers, I called the Microsoft switchboard, requested the SVP of the appropriate department, was transferred to him directly, he picked up within two rings, we spoke briefly, he promised that the person responsible would call me within the hour, fifteen minutes later I was talking with the person in charge of Hotmail abuse mitigation, and we worked to resolve the problem over the next several months. I'm no fan of Microsoft, but their response here impressed me immensely.
Another spam issue turned out to be a service run by a contractor at a southeastern university. After getting the brush off from the guy at his personal account (and tracking down his consulting gig), I sent a round of emails escalating one level up the university org chart, eventually hitting the president's office. By the third or fourth round I'd gotten the resolution I'd hoped for in the first place.
Issues with delivery through Yahoo (and months of zero useful responsiveness from their help desk and CTO and the self-reporting web tools) led me to finally email the entire executive suite (as far as I could identify -- this was a few CEOs ago) with an email subject line "Gentlemen, you have a problem", containing a brief synopsis and pflogsum extracts comparing delivery rates and times through Yahoo and other major email service providers. Got a response from the "concierge" desk and resolution within a couple of days.
In another case, an airline's exceptionally poor service led me to write an essay and post it to my website (as I'd promised the CSR I'd do when I requested hotel accomodations to compensate for fouling up both legs of my journey and stranding me at an airport overnight). I didn't get the resolution I'd wanted, but my piece generated a number of emails to me from both other frustrated passengers, and a number of airline employees and investors as the company struggled to stay solvent. It ultimately lost that battle, and I cried very, very little.
Look up "the art of turboing". Realize that politics and sociology of most businesses makes such embarrassments a very high priority to resolve, especially if they're chump change to the organization in question. http://macwhiz.com/blog/art-of-turboing/
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?