Slashdot Mirror
UK Government To Spy On Computers of the Jobless
An anonymous reader writes "Jobseekers will be offered the chance to look for work through the new Universal Jobmatch website, which automatically pairs them up with opportunities that suit their skills after scanning their CVs. It will also allow employers to search for new workers among the unemployed and send messages inviting them to interviews. However, their activities may also be tracked using cookies, so their Job Centre advisers know how many searches they have been doing and whether they are turning down viable opportunities. Iain Duncan-Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, said the scheme would 'revolutionize' the process of looking for work. He said anyone without a job after signing up to the scheme would be lacking 'imagination.'"
I appreciate that the headline just copies that of the original article, but I really do expect better of Slashdot. (I know, I know, I must be new here.)
It's official. Most of you are morons.
in Germany jobless people have to report any application for a job to the agency and they have to apply for a certain amount of jobs per month or they get no welfare. Still people say it is not enough and unemployed people should be a workforce of the government to clean parks etc. -.-
Any entity will always use any information they have for its own benefit, so why are cookies able to be used like that?
I wonder how quickly this Mr Duncan-smith would change his mind about lacking 'imagination' if he had to choose between picking up trash on the street and cleaning urinals at subway stations. Fuck people like this.. I call stuff like this the 'cry of the successful.' It's full of just as much bullshit as the 'cry of the entitlement princess' and deserves just as much derision.
Is this using a new definition of spying that I'm not aware of? Tracking sure but spying is a bit dramatic.
I just can't be bothered.
There's an opinion on-line that the UK is turning in to some sort oppressive totalitarian state. It seems like this summary was written with this view in mind. It makes a number of errors of omission.
The article says it's opt-in! It only applies to that web-site too. That's obviously a huge omission to make from the summary. The summary seems to imply that the government would snoop on all traffic of a job-seeker and it was mandatory.
Finally, people who are claiming Job Seekers allowance are requesting support from the government while they look for a job. It's not totalitarian to suggest that we ensure that they are actually looking for a job!
As a taxpayer and a liberal democrat, it's something I support!
Given how much permatemping runs rampant in the UK and EU (and if the US doesn't amend Right to Work to cover temporary workers, them too), it would be valid to turn offers for "temporary work" that isn't temporary. How about removing the avenues of labor classification abuse by employers as well as removing all the cost reductions?
Spying on the jobless is just like the job tryout program that Tesco abuses and that some security company abused for the London Olympics - doing nothing to employers and not equalizing the cost of temporary labor to FT/direct.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I find your post fascinating. How did you get past the caps filter?
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Website owner dares to track users' interactions with the site. Surely this can't be allowed? The end of the world is nigh!
The system doesn't work properly, its not easy to use and is maximally intrusive.
It was introduced without warning with three days "live testing" over a weekend at the beginning of November and was a complete surprise to users of the previous system. The data is dieplayed in an inflexible way, can't be sorted and jobs are impossible to categorise as the keyword search is up the shoot. Unreformed Scrooge (Are there no prisons? Are the Union workhouses still in operation? The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?) would be proud of it.
When they start enforcing it in the New Year, there's going to be a lot more beggars on the streets as they remove benefits from people who can't use it as the DWP envisage. And employers are going to be deluged with even more unsuitable applicants who are making the mandatory applications to keep on the treadmill.
As the world hasn't ended so far, I just hope Ian Duncan Smith gets a Ghostly Visitation on Christmas Eve and repents of his wicked ways.
Yep - fat chance.......
Judging from what's going on in other EU countries, I'd say this is likely just another tool to keep the poor in poverty-stricken wage-slavery.
This entire scheme is crazy. Why?
Number one: not everyone has a computer in the UK believe it or not, particularly the over 40's.
Number two: every government run JobXYZ service only has minimum wage crap which is usually supported by government schemes or has chains of hundreds of applicants. Hiding these jobs behind a web site is just going to hide the problem.
Number three: it's obviously a cost cutting exercise so they can stick some more booths in the JobCentre sites and get rid of more staff.
Number four: There aren't actually enough positions to fill in the UK. We've automated or contracted everything out to other countries. People will be unemployed as they are not needed to keep the cogs oiled. Solving the employment problem in the UK is only possible by loom smashing now.
Number five: the government manage to screw up every IT project out there. This will be another victim.
argh.
I was unemployed for a few months in California in 2003. Then, you could collect unemployment for up to 6 months. I maxed it out at $1,000/mo (my medical payments were slightly higher). I had to send to the authorities a list of companies I had sent my resume to at regular intervals. (I ended up sending ~200 applications before getting a job.)
Now I'm possibly facing a similar situation in Finland. Medical is provided by the government so I can actually live with unemployment, which for me would be ~$2,500/mo. I can collect the benefits for a year and a half, I think, but the pay gets worse over time. I don't think there's any obligation to show effort in finding a job.
They want a workforce, but they have to assume it'll be unskilled. They can't put these people to work on virtually anything done by local councils as the unions will go ape and strike. A whole load of demeaning labour is already being done by people on community service sentences and there would be riots if they started treating unemployed people like criminals. That leaves them with one option - making deals with companies in the private sector for cheap workers, effectively being a US-style Welfare to Work scheme. Why does that notion fill me with dread?
to be on the public dole. If you want to take money from everyone else, you had better accept the fact that your benefactors have a right to know whether you are simply stealing their money.
So, the Benefits Agency want to get people to apply for jobs through a website they run, and grind through some analytics to see who is applying for what - or even applying at all.
Come on, Samzenpus, I know you fell for the tabloid sensationalism and all, but I'd expect better than that from you.
SPACES, MY FRIEND, SPACES
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
I should probably add that the AC wasn't me.
:)
When I troll, I troll logged in.
And, oh, you must be new here
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Will be compulsory to use for jobseekers from next year (as in, 2 weeks from now).
Have a friend who uses it. They checked the terms and conditions of signing up to use it (remember this is mandatory for those people who wish to sign on for benefits, e.g. somebody who has paid taxes for 20 years and would now like a little back from the taxes to help them get by on important bills for the next few months til they find their next job). If you register on the system, the terms and conditions currently note that your personal data can be passed on to third parties outside the EU.
I don't remember us signing up to that agreement when we agreed to the contract where we pay taxes into society, and when we need some help we can get a little back.
I'll ask my friend to send over the details of the text and I'll post it.
I think a payment card (which the article also discussed) is way overdue and would cut down benefit fraud and stop people using money they should be spending on food using it to spend on drugs, booze, cigarettes or the geegees.
because it doesn't work. I had to use the site for a week or so after the change, and it was the worst website I have every used. I swear a 12 year old designed it (Actually that disrespects all the 12 year olds who can actually make a website).
And it is actually mandatory if you are on job seekers. You are required to either enter the branch or search online for a certain amount of jobs per week to obtain you funding. I am not against this, but as with all the UK government websites, they need to work correctly, which they don't.
It was approved of by someone whose nickname in the Army was "Drunken". Given that this was the British Army, where a certain officer was nicknamed "foggy" because he was wet and thick, that tells you a lot of what you need to know.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
This makes a strong argument for unplugging from technology altogether. I realize this article is probably a whole lot of sensationalism but it also serves as a slippery slope warning. If laws were enacted similar to this one, I would go old fashioned in my job search altogether. The reality of the situation is that only a small number of people will find ways to take advantage of a system. Should the majority be punished for the transgressions of the few? No, that is tyranny.
If this doesn't violate the rather extreme EU laws about privacy, then those laws are a joke and should be repealed since they're only getting in the way of the correct operation of the Internet.
Maybe the nuclear physicist should find a partner mechanic and start a business producing nuclear powered cars...
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Once their was an unemployed person who had his/her every move monitored onlline because they received unemployment/welfare.
Once thier job search activities were done, they booted into thier second partician and used thier other (Free as in Linux) operating system.
Or, for the less tech savey, they went to use their second computer to keep their activities from being tracked (spyed on) by a cookie.
The End.
If you pay taxes for 20 years then need a hand paying for bills for a few months, getting 50 / week back out of those 20 years taxes does not equal "free money".
Studying part time for certified courses costs money as well. Studying using free resources either requires access to the internet (costs money for net connection) or libraries (government seems to be closing them down, our local one isn't open on Saturdays any more, means no parent and child reading sessions if the parent is in work....).
Ya saw it coming this way, but Ya didn't see it coming that way, so we switch from positive to negative on ya ,wh ile ya were toking Luke usual up jah
Cookies are optional. They are little text files that your computer sends as part of the request when you request a page from a webserver. They can only be accessed from the domain that wrote them. If you are concerned, you can turn cookies off in every major web browser made since the 90's. I just checked, and currently Slashdot is using 8 cookies to track me!
It is fairly pathetic that first world countries in this day and age aren't able to provide the basic dignity of decent payed work to all its citizens.
Anyone living in a country with involuntary unemployment has no reason whatsoever to be proud of their country. Developed countries my ass. More like undeveloped barbaric countries. All modern first world countries have the capacity to afford to provide low skill jobs to all their citizens (and the job possibilities exists as well) . They just choose to not do so, because of greed, pure evil and utter stupidity (not necessarily in that order).
And no, European "socialist" countries aren't any better than the US. Being treated as a Lab rat or a Slave doesn't make much difference. I guess you feel better as a lab rat as long as you generally won't be subjected to any cruel experiments, but in both cases you are treated as subhuman and subject to the whims of your owner(s).
When the hell are you going to learn this kind of crap is what "tax the rich!" buys.
Jesus H. Fucking Christ
ZOMG! U.K. Government discovers teh cookies!!!!!!1111!!!
What's to stop some enterprising person from automating searches to generate cookies and collect cash for doing nothing?
Most EU countries got two systems, unemployment (typically limited in time and only available to the previously employed) and welfare (typically lower in amount but available to all who qualify by their need). It is NOT that easy to get kicked out of wellfare because it is after all meant to be a safety net to prevent people from sliding into absolute poverty.
The whole getting the unemployed to work is however a bit of a sham. For instance it has been revealed that programs to get mothers working COST more then they deliver. If it costs 100k to get a person to work for 40k, that is just pointless really. It looks nice in employment statistics but basically the state is subsidizing the employer and the state is you the taxpayer.
And if moms who work can't volunteer anymore at school and the school now has to hire people to do those tasks, you are even deeper in the red. And if they got to send their kids to subsidized daycare so they can work, that is even more money down the drain.
Always suspect government figures on this subject. The idea to get the unemployed cleaning parks for instance sounds fun. Who is going to pay for all the hardware needed? Transportation? Supervising?
It is often just really cheaper to have people sit at home on a minimum income. Not nice but if you want nice, stay out of politics.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
If people don't want to get interviews they could just fill their resume with typos etc. Then they can apply to enough jobs make the system happy and not have to worry about going to an interview or refusing an interview. People will always find a way to circumvent the system.
No unemployment (and really, you get a small fine last I heard) but welfare is DIFFERENT (Uitkering in Dutch). You don't have to job hunt on wellfare, it is for people that are unemployable for whatever reason, in fact, it is meant as safety net for EVERYONE. And it is almost impossible to loose.
"De (algemene) bijstand is in Nederland de inkomensondersteuning en ondersteuning bij het vinden van werk voor 'wie niet zelf in zijn bestaan kan voorzien' en voor wie geen aanspraak kan maken op voorliggende voorzieningen zoals de Algemene Ouderdomswet (AOW), de Werkloosheidswet (WW) en de WAO. De overeenkomstige uitkering in Vlaanderen heet leefloon."
The (common) assistance is in The Netherlands the income support and support for the finding of work for "who can't support themselves" and who can't claim on earlier services such as Old Age Pension, Unemployment and the Benefits for the handicapped. In north belgium it is called lifewages".
Apology for the lousy translation but a lot of the terms are unknown to me in English partly because the US probably doesn't have such things or at least they are not mentioned in popular media.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It is part of the taxes you pay when you get a job. It basically a form of insurance. Why shouldn't he claim what he has payed for? The system is WORKING as it should in this case.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
He said anyone without a job after signing up to the scheme would be lacking 'imagination.'
What this says to me is Iain Duncan-Smith has not held a job, such as one which he is wishing on us, in his lifetime. I've had some great contracts/jobs with teriffic clients/employers. Then there's the other ones; the "gap jobs" that tide you over between the good ones. Between insufferably clueless management, three hour per day commutes to minimum wage jobs, penurious support, "to the second" clock watchers, ...
Co-worker: "I need to take Friday off to attend the funeral of an army buddy."
Vince: "But I need two weeks notice!"
Hired to be a "Computer Operator": "I don't want you doing computer stuff until 4:00 PM!"
There are way too many jobs out there that make you want to bang your head on a brick wall or jump off a bridge. I like to work and create. I don't enjoy enduring boring and stupid un-fixable regimes which no-one should have to. Unfortunately, most of those sort of jobs out there are just that; tyrannical abysmal managers utterly unwilling to improve anything.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
People still use the letters CV? I keep thinking that CV is a set of numbers on the back of a credit card.
I use the word resume.
Bottom line is you put just enough credentials to get yourself the job.
Bzzzzt wrong answer.
This means lying about your employment history
When (not if) the employer finds out, they are well within there rights to dismiss you.
Oh, and in the UK, you have a hard time claiming unemployment benefit if you have just been fired for lying to your employer.
In Australia, you simply have to write down X employers that you contacted and their phone numbers. Then the govt agency can contact the employer and ask them if you turned down a job. Now monitoring the employer-employee interaction through online messaging (openly, using secure sign-in to an account, not through cookies), would be fine too. In fact it would be fairer on the job seeker since most low-end jobs have some conditions that are unlawful (e.g. below minimum wage, cash-in-hand, "contractor" positions that are really employer/employee relationships) and so it would be easy to see this and let the job-seeker off the hook. I know because I actually described a $10 an hour (minimum wage is about $15) job to the govt agency, and I was told I was free to take it but not required to.
Soon someone in our Brave New World will tell you that unless you are willing to work for $ 0.03/hr, you simply lack imagination.
I am currently unemployed and have signed up to this website. It differs from the old government site in that it also lists jobs from other sites, such as reed Hays and monster all in one site.
At present i have to supply activity information each time i sign on, which seems reasonable to me. Of they want to automate the process via the web that just seems to be how everything is done now, efficiency and cost rather than anything else.
The employment sitesi am registered with all have the option to have your CV searchable to employers andi have been contacted several times that way. I can not imagine that employers will want to employ anyone overqualified because there is always the risk they will leave to go toa higher paid more suitable position.
Were do love to complain about changes especially if that is government mandated.
> Why does that notion fill me with dread?
Because it should.
I'm recently off an 8 month stint of looking for work. Highly trained, specialized skill set. So yeah, 8 months.
Looking for work, done even moderately, can take half of each day. You have to be able to go to an interview at the interviewer's convenience, meaning not making unchangeable plans during the work day. For work like mine, interviews often take participation over the internet, which requires a non-stressful environment. That is, when the interview doesn't require you to commute to the work site.
Guess what you can't do, what you don't have time for, if you're being forced to commit workfare?
And "work training" that involves an unskilled position doing grunt labor is training only in the skill of "regularly showing up for work on time". An important skill, yes, but not one that is improved by weeks of labor.
So yeah. It's a scam. It looks good on paper, but stinks in execution.
Makes me want to shut off the computer throw it away and go fishing.
I need to write my own web browser that just dont allow it and go back to cheap dial up that gives a different IP each time I long on.I do not even trust VPN paid providers.
I wonder if this would work well in the case of those on unemployment in the U.S. Of course, now people are not entitled to actively seeking a job while on unemployment, causing more people to abuse the system. I would love to see these types of abusers tracked to see if they are still actually looking for a job on the web. Then my tax dollars wouldn't be used as much to pay the unemployment scammers who make more off of the government than I do working a full-time job.
I know this person.
"From someone who wishes to remain anonymous."
My experience with Atos:
I was working in Central London in a very well paid job that I’d had for about a year. I was struck down with a spontaneous genetic degenerative disease that I had no idea I had. I continued working though liver and kidney failure for the best part of a year. Every time I had liver failure, I went to hospital and returned immediately to work less 20% use of my liver. I did this three times and now have 40% total use of my liver.
After a year, and an accumulation of another two autoimmune diseases (arthritis being one) I was fired from my job. I was forced to apply for ESA, which I did.
I had someone fill in their forms as I said what to put and 13 weeks later I was told to come in for an assessment. The first one, I asked them not to put any pressure on my liver or kidneys when they wanted to do their exam because they were both very inflamed and I had severe cirrhosis of the liver. When the ‘doctor’ did the exam, she put pressure on me and I vomited on the floor. Unfortunately, when I vomit, I wet myself. I didn’t have a change of clothes so as I was going home I had to travel through London with vomit covered and pee covered clothes.
The second time I had to go, my kidneys were almost completely failing. I’d only been out of hospital a few days and my husband and I travelled through London to Atos again. Whilst waiting, I went to the bathroom and whilst in the bathroom a lot of blood was filling up the toilet. I stood up and the blood didn’t stop. My damaged kidneys were giving up. I fell onto the floor, dizzy through blood loss and I rang my husband (in the waiting room). He came in, took one look at me and shouted to the reception to call an ambulance.
The receptionist came in, shook her head and flushed the loo and told me to clear up the blood. She then told me that under absolute no circumstances could I rebook my appointment with their assessor and if I chose to leave in an ambulance then my ESA would be stopped as I would be marked down as a non-attendance. My husband pleaded with her and asked if there was anyone we could see now and she said no.
We sat in the waiting room for another half an hour blood soaking through my trousers and onto their chair. I was assessed by an assessor who seemed to be concerned more with the chair I was sat on than the fact I was bleeding and went through the questions. Another half an hour later, we finished and we asked her to ring an ambulance. 'I’m not a bloody receptionist' was her reply.
We went back through to reception where they refused to call an ambulance so we did, and I was taken to hospital.
They said that I was in the same condition as the previous assessment 3 months previous. They assessed me for the WRA group again.
When I got home and was feeling better I wrote a letter of complaint, which never responded to.
About 18 months after that, I wrote to the DWP and told them that I felt my condition had worsened enough to warrant a move to the Support Group. I added all of the evidence. They sent another ESA50. (That’s another thing. My husband and I have filled out over 10 of these. 5 sent by recorded delivery yet they claim they never got them. Hmmm...)
I told them under no circumstances was I attending their offices again, they can come to me if they feel that I need to be assessed again. They reassessed me again and put me into the Support Group six months ago. No ESA50s have arrived since but I am dreading the receipt of another one. Same fight, another day.
The government are proposing a "20 metre rule" - if you can move 20 metres by *any* means, you're not disabled "enough" to get disability benefits.
(copied from an email to my MP about someone else a couple of weeks ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKdKzalMhXc
For what it's worth, I've been in touch with other MPs offices this week regarding someone in London who had all their benefits stopped.
No money for food (she'd eaten twice in 12 days), she's disabled and unable to walk anywhere to try to get any help (her nearest foodbank was 7 miles away), no electricity and no gas to keep warm.
The council, DWP, and GP (who could have given her a prescription for Sustain, a food substitute, until she resolved the issue) amongst others like the utility companies, all blanked her.
This IS the position people are being put in, and the state of the country's welfare system in 2012, and she isn't the first person I've heard of left in that position.