Israeli Bill Would Allow Secret Blacklists For Websites

Slopes were made for slippin' by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2012-12-22 05:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

Oooh secret courts! Censorship! Illegally-obtained evidence!

So much for "never again". We have become our enemy.

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.

Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by flayzernax · 2012-12-22 05:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

I like how all of these current politicaly hip ideas " gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement" to regulate are all being lumped into the same bill.
I hate to say this but they are all nothing alike, and the reasons for blocking each individualy differ quite a bit. To make it secret is even worse. Why don't you do the internet a service and educate people about these issues directly.
Should some things be blocked, taken down, raided, removed from the group think, yep, definately child porn, but lets not erode everything else to do it. It can be done responsably.
I suppose you will take down WALL STREET's webs since their all about gambling. Or the myriad content producers who violate their own rules. (disney recently in the news asking google to filter its own results out of the web)
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:49 · Score: -1

Don't you dare criticize your jewish masters! They own your money through the banks, they own your mind through media, and now they are going to own your body as well. You'll be thrown in jail and you won't even know why, because it's a secret shared only in the synagogue. And you thought the "international jewry" Hitler raved about in the 1930's-1940's were just the ravings of a madman...
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:09 · Score: 0

So you court is saying Hitler was right. He just lost a war.
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2012-12-22 10:16 · Score: 1

I understand the desire to keep the list secret -- some people will use a published list as a catalog of sites to visit -- but, as usual, I strongly recommend against building tools of tyrrany. "We won't misuse it" is part of tyrrany's meme spread mechanism.

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by sortius_nod · 2012-12-22 12:03 · Score: 2

You don't think that a determined enough person can find these sites anyway? The lists should never be secret, the cases should always be open.
The idea that even the site's owner won't be notified shows a "guilty with no chance to prove innocence" process. I hate to skirt a Godwin, but this kind of activity reeks of fascism.
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 12:13 · Score: 0

Duh, no, the JEWS are our enemy, idiot.
"We have become our enemy" indeed.
Good old Israel, telling the world what to do...
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 12:33 · Score: 0

These Jews aren't stupid.
If you want to be successful like China rather than a shithole like the USA, then you need to emulate Chinese policies.
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by Sir_Sri · 2012-12-22 12:49 · Score: 2

If you were to think of it from the other direction. Construct a list of (website) businesses not allowed to do business in israel, what would they be?
Illegal gambling (that may be all gambling, that may be gambling not under a state monopoly, I'm not sure).
Illegal weapons sales
People smuggling
Terrorism
Hostile state propaganda (Iranian news).
Child pornographers.
Etc.
They're aren't on the list because they're equivalent crimes, they're on the list because the government only has the authority to take the *one* action against them if they're based outside of the country: Ban them from domestic websites. And even that is of dubious capability.
Now the thing is, the Israeli government may not have a great problem with people smuggling, they may actually want people to see what the Iranian press is saying, they may have more effective border control on arms sales than blocking websites (since those are going to the palestinians who theoretically have their own internet anyway) and so on.
But Illegal gambling, child porn, they're both illegal. And the Israeli state can't do anything about them if it's hosted outside israel. And the Israeli user action is the problem (giving money to an unlicensed betting firm, acquiring/distributing child porn, or downloading copyrighted works without license), a casino in the US that takes israeli money is behaving legally for them, etc.

I hate to say this but they are all nothing alike
well as I say, they are, in how you access them and who is responsible for doing so.

and the reasons for blocking each individualy differ quite a bit.

Blocked is blocked, why is for the law to sort out itself.

To make it secret is even worse. Why don't you do the internet a service and educate people about these issues directly.

Creating a list of places to go for illegal activity would seem counter productive. Especially since this would be basically a list for people in other countries to use as go to place for sources.

I suppose you will take down WALL STREET's webs since their all about gambling.

If israeli citizens are not allowed to invest on the NYSE then... sure it should be blocked if there's no public benefit to being able to see it (not taken down, wall street is operating legally within the US, that's the problem, the Israelis can't shut down a legally operating monaco gambling site but they can block access to it).
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by davydagger · 2012-12-22 13:55 · Score: 2

" " gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement""

as in trying to make taking away rights as attractive as possible, pushing people's emotional buttons
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by Johann+Lau · 2012-12-23 00:22 · Score: 1

"Germany lost the war, fascism won it." -- George Carlin
I guess it just takes an awful long time for the fallout of that to trickle through the generations.
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by slick7 · 2012-12-23 02:34 · Score: 1

Oooh secret courts! Censorship! Illegally-obtained evidence!
So much for "never again". We have become our enemy.
Obviously the RED Scare of the fifties with our lovable Senator Joe McCarthy is lost on the youts today.

--
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
Re:Slopes were made for slippin' by KingBenny · 2013-01-03 10:48 · Score: 1

you're right
there are no MMO's worth playing atm
i'm afraid you're mostly right about the other thing as well, it's not just israel though it's a generation thing it's not even geopolitical. Afraid to lose control
(imo)

--
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?

This is how it should be... by jkrise · 2012-12-22 05:22 · Score: 1, Insightful

Each nation should be able to legislate and govern internet access in the way it sees fit; and best suite for its citizen's good. What's good for the US may not be good enough for Israel or even the UK, China or India. Just because the internet as it has eveolved so far is inter-operable across nations, does not mean it should be governed by a single set of rules, protocols and conventions.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....

Re:This is how it should be... by CosmicMuse · 2012-12-22 05:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

While there's potentially merit in your argument, I think most people worldwide would agree that "government censorship through secret court proceedings using illegal evidence" is not a beneficial protocol for... well, any country. This proposal isn't a slippery slope, it's a canyon drop-off, and at the bottom is "government-approved communication" and "arrests without trial for dissenting speech".
Re:This is how it should be... by BSAtHome · 2012-12-22 05:45 · Score: 1

And let /. be the first on that secret list. There can not come any good from discussion, ever, how good or sad it is performed..
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 05:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Last I checked Human Rights were called Human Rights, not qualified with "only for citizens of Country-XYZ". If a state wants to be considered civilised then it should have a civilised perspective on and adhere to human rights, whether it be Israel, China, USA or South Sudan.
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 05:47 · Score: 0

The problem arise when sociopaths make the laws and the calls, while terrorizing their citizens and neighbours.
Re:This is how it should be... by RabidReindeer · 2012-12-22 05:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

Irony. You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.
Re:This is how it should be... by interval1066 · 2012-12-22 05:49 · Score: 1

I always love the "freedom of speech may work in the US but its not necessarily appropriate for my country..."

--
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:This is how it should be... by interval1066 · 2012-12-22 05:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

While there's potentially merit in your argument...
No, there's no merit to censorship. Its all about control and who rules. End of discussion.

--
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Re:This is how it should be... by jkrise · 2012-12-22 06:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

I always love the "freedom of speech may work in the US but its not necessarily appropriate for my country..."
Freedom of speech isn't the only thing at issue here; consider a company known to clandestinely distributing malware / legitimate software that monitors user's activities by reporting back to its servers. I'm talking about CarrierIQ which is installed in many mobile devices; reporting back keystrokes, messages etc., getting access to data even before it is encrypted on the device.
There was lots of noise about a year or so ago as I recall; followed by total silence. The Trevor Eckart's video revealed potential abuse of several federal laws, and yet the company seems to be operating unscathed.
Now, the Israel govt. has the choice to bring legal proceedings followed by lengthy trials etc.; but seeing as this matter has been hushed; might feel the publicity might not be worth the effort. So it could simply issue a blacklist order on all ISPs to simply blacklist the offending IP address and be done with it; pending investigation. This is not a Freedom of Speech issue; more of a national security issue.
There could be many more such scenarios.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Re:This is how it should be... by jkrise · 2012-12-22 06:07 · Score: 2

And let /. be the first on that secret list.
If democratically elected officials are following due process, and coming to arbitrary conclusions, their people deserve it, and need to elect someone else. That is a lesser burden on society than unfettered crime on the internet that does not go away.And if /. be deemed to be a dangerous site, so be it.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:09 · Score: 0

And who decides what's "best suited for its citizen's good"? If it's not a superior being then it needs to be voted upon by the citizenry.
Re:This is how it should be... by jkrise · 2012-12-22 06:15 · Score: 1

And who decides what's "best suited for its citizen's good"?
Democratically elected officials who are trying to get this Bill passed. They have the right to decide what's good for their citizens.
If it's not a superior being then it needs to be voted upon by the citizenry.
Not every single issue merits going through a public referendum. If it's such a big deal, the citizenry could vote out those in power and get a better party in its place.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Re:This is how it should be... by ugglybabee · 2012-12-22 06:16 · Score: 1

How it's going to be, maybe, but surely there are limits to what a govenrment can do to its people's rights and still have it be "the way it ought to be."
Here's the thing: if decisions are made ex parte and in secret, the odds that these decisions will be strictly limited to include only cases of "gambling, child pronography, and copyright infringement" are just about zero per cent.
Re:This is how it should be... by jkrise · 2012-12-22 06:26 · Score: 1

Here's the thing: if decisions are made ex parte and in secret, the odds that these decisions will be strictly limited to include only cases of "gambling, child pronography, and copyright infringement" are just about zero per cent.
Fair enough, maybe it was worded that way to make it palatable to the legislators... a bit like SOPA was worded, and later rejected. While Israleis are normally a very clever bunch of people, a sizable number of them might not know what is good for themselves, and might be falling prey to dangerous activities occurring on the internet. They might need to be protected from themselves and this legislation could be of help, and indeed might be the only practical way to limit great harm. It is an issue best left to the legislators voting on the Bill.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Re:This is how it should be... by Blue+Stone · 2012-12-22 06:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

>Each nation should be able to legislate and govern internet access in the way it sees fit; and best suite for its citizen's good.
They way you phrased this, someone could interpret you as saying that all governments act in the best interests of the people they govern.
That can't be what you meant, though, because I know nobody's *that* naive in this day and age.

--
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Re:This is how it should be... by terec · 2012-12-22 06:50 · Score: 1

I don't see anybody calling for Israel to be prevented from doing this. However, the rest of us can still comment on it, can't we?
Re:This is how it should be... by Sun · 2012-12-22 07:05 · Score: 3, Informative

The only good news is that I think (hope?) that this proposal has little chance of passing. Past experience with fighting such stupid proposals tells me that we (voice of reason) can usually garner enough support within the parliament to block such stupid law proposals.
Please remember that proposing such laws only require one member of Knesset. Passing them, well, that requires a little more.
Shachar
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:19 · Score: 0

Irony. You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.
That's not ironic, it's coincidental!
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:45 · Score: 0

Yes, and installing Why not incarcerate everyone in camps where their movements and activities can be more easily observed and controlled?
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:52 · Score: 0

Last I checked Human Rights were called Human Rights, not qualified with "only for citizens of Country-XYZ". If a state wants to be considered civilised then it should have a civilised perspective on and adhere to human rights, whether it be Israel, China, USA or South Sudan.

Last I checked Human Rights were called Human Rights, not qualified with "only for citizens of Country-XYZ".
That is a very common viewpoint, this is a conversation I had not that long ago about Moslem women and the their islamic dress-code:
A: Hijabs should be forbidden.
B: Why? We live in a democracy, if women want to wear headscarves and veils that is their right.
A: You know if I was a woman and I went to Saudi Arabia I'd have to wear a headscarf.
B: So because western women visiting Saudi Arabia are forced to wear a headscarf we should ban moslem women in our country from wearing one?
A: Yes.
B: Even though it is their right of moslem women under the constitution of our democracy to wear any kind of clothing they want like any other citizen?
A: Yes.
B: So If I understand you correctly, We should punish people from country X that live among us in our country because the government of country X is doing things you don't approve of. How about North Koreans? If you went to North Korea you'd probably be detained as a spy, should we start rounding up Korean people and lock them up in retaliation?
A: That's not what I said...
B: Well I picked that example to demonstrate how silly your POW is. You just said that Moslem women should not be allowed to wear a headscarf in this country even though it is their right to do so and you tried to justify it by pointing out that western women in Saudi Arabia are made to wear one. I don't really care what the Saudis are doing, I refuse to sacrifice our democratic principles to punish local moslems for something that is happening in another country just because you don't like headscarves.
A: Uhhhhhh.... you are twisting my words, I'm all in favour of this democracy thing but I just think Moslems should be banned from wearing headscarves....
B: *** sigh *** GOTO _beginning_
Re:This is how it should be... by davester666 · 2012-12-22 07:56 · Score: 1

I tried calling, but nobody picked up...

--
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:15 · Score: 0

You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.
1. It worked quite well for the source of the policy (the nazi government had no problems until they lost the war)
2. Politicians all over the world are well aware of 1
3. While all politicians agree that Nazis where evil there is also the attempt to limit information about how they did their evil - "nazis where evil but you do not need to know how we^W they manage to brainwash people into following us^W them". (at least that is what I see the politicians doing here in germany - scientific examination of nazi propaganda? freely available for the public? of course not.)
Re:This is how it should be... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2012-12-22 10:18 · Score: 1

"Each clustered local group of dominants should be able create control mechanisms that engender their continuation in power, and I encourage them to use memetic rationalizations that easily spread to the common worker cogs when doing so."
FTFY

--
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Re:This is how it should be... by Dunbal · 2012-12-22 11:06 · Score: 1

and "arrests without trial for dissenting speech"
Only at the beginning. Once people realize there are no consequences, it will just be arrests without trial. This has happened numerous times before, history is full of examples. It will happen again.

--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 11:09 · Score: 1, Insightful

Nazis were evil because we are told that they were evil.
Re:This is how it should be... by tftp · 2012-12-22 13:26 · Score: 1

"It's different when *we* do it"
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 16:27 · Score: 0

Irony. You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.
And they are the first to scream "Remember the holocaust!" and "Never again!" when anybody dares to criticize Israeli policy or behavior.
Re:This is how it should be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 19:23 · Score: 0

Exactly. Information control worked perfectly well for Germany. The "undesirables" thought they were being relocated, which isn't THAT bad compared to what was really going on. The people (be they from Axis or Allies nations) thought those imprisoned by Germans were going to work camps. That might sound bad today, but everyone had work camps back then: the USA did, the USSR did, and both imprisoned their own citizens too. The Axis lost the war more because of the impossible odds they faced (let's invade everyone at the same time, they'll never expect it!) than for controlling information. After they lost, sure, everyone knew what happened, but then it didn't matter anymore.
Re:This is how it should be... by alexgieg · 2012-12-23 02:59 · Score: 1

Irony. You'd think that a country home to so many Jews would remember how well that worked in Germany.
The problem is that Israel didn't become independent by the acts of the Jews who directly experienced the horrors of Nazism, but mostly by those of these guys here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
Holocaust survivors entered the picture more as propaganda boosts than prominent actors, and as a result much of Irgun's mentality carried over into the new independent Israel.

--
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.

Wherever their culture draws the thin line... by Art+Popp · 2012-12-22 05:27 · Score: 2

between "person who blogged about Olmert's overly aggressive war against Lebannon" and "Subversive Hezbollah sympathizer," that line needs to be in clear public view. It is a symbol of a country's bravery in times of fear. Ex-parte, non-disclosed proceedings will make it impossible for people to know the "why" and the balance the court has placed on fighting crime vs. sacrificing free speech. Without that visibility, there is zero chance that the line will be held in place, uninfluenced by politics.

Of all the people that I assumed would be on guard for the State taking powers that could easily be abused to silence the minority, I thought it would be them.

Re:Wherever their culture draws the thin line... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 05:41 · Score: 0

between "person who blogged about Olmert's overly aggressive war against Lebannon" and "Subversive Hezbollah sympathizer," that line needs to be in clear public view. It is a symbol of a country's bravery in times of fear. Ex-parte, non-disclosed proceedings will make it impossible for people to know the "why" and the balance the court has placed on fighting crime vs. sacrificing free speech. Without that visibility, there is zero chance that the line will be held in place, uninfluenced by politics.
Of all the people that I assumed would be on guard for the State taking powers that could easily be abused to silence the minority, I thought it would be them.
Israelis weren't on guard for the state putting Palestinians into concentration camps and stealing their land; why would Israelis be on guard for the state taking yet more powers that could easily be used to silence a minority and generally crack down any other vulnerable groups? Seems to me the Israeli state has simply expanded it's oppression efforts to encompass yet more vulnerable groups which is not exactly a new development. What interests me is how long will it take before the Israeli people get tired of living in a state of constant war with all the draconian 'security measures' that come with it? You'd think that half a century was enough to wear any population down to the point where trying to end the bloodshed began to seem like a good idea.
Re:Wherever their culture draws the thin line... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 05:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

this is the problem.
its not that some clear delineation exists between legal and illegal behavior and they just decided to keep it a secret
its a secret because there is no line. there is no distinction between a citizen exercising the right to a reasonable
and polite dissent of policies and a terrorist. if you get to be too much of a pain in the ass you will be silenced.
and if 10 years from now its expedient to circumcise some other behaviors, then you as the government dont need to
worry about any kind of messy legal analysis or political process...you already have a blank check to do whatever the hell you want.
Re:Wherever their culture draws the thin line... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:24 · Score: 0

this is the problem.
its not that some clear delineation exists between legal and illegal behavior and they just decided to keep it a secret
its a secret because there is no line. there is no distinction between a citizen exercising the right to a reasonable
and polite dissent of policies and a terrorist. if you get to be too much of a pain in the ass you will be silenced.
and if 10 years from now its expedient to circumcise some other behaviors, then you as the government dont need to
worry about any kind of messy legal analysis or political process...you already have a blank check to do whatever the hell you want.
So ISRAEL is learning from the US.
It seems that the rule of law will only be upheld in the EU at this rate.

Secret? by Frosty+Piss · 2012-12-22 05:36 · Score: 1

It's kind of hard to "secretly" block a web site, isn't it?

"Don't tell anyone, but no one can access this web site in Israel..."

--
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.

Re:Secret? by jonklinger · 2012-12-22 06:02 · Score: 1

Not really; the secret part is the arguments the court ruled on. Meaning, you'll get a court order saying "well, we'll block access to your website, but we can't let you see the evidence we have saying that there's gambling going on there".
Re:Secret? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:05 · Score: 1

Except if you use ISPs outside the nation? VPN, satellite connections, Tor, etc. etc.
But it is interesting how child porn is now on same level as copyright infringement. Very interesting. What's next stop? You don't agree with Israeli-Palestinian segregation and concentration camps? How about you don't agree with the First-Strike-on-Iran dogma? Those blogs and websites probably will not be available in Israel very long.

Tell Bill to knock it off by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 05:39 · Score: 0

Weirdo.

Let Israel build a wall around themselves by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 05:40 · Score: 0

Fuck Israel, let themselves segregate themselves into oblivion. I'm soo tired of hearing about ISREAL shut the fuck up about them. there are more worthy news topics out there.

TOR, VPN, Proxies by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 05:45 · Score: 0

Hi:

Good thing none of these things exist.

One impoertant piece of information is missing by alexo · 2012-12-22 05:58 · Score: 2

Which MP(s) are behind this initiative?

Re:One impoertant piece of information is missing by jonklinger · 2012-12-22 06:05 · Score: 2

This is actually not a private bill, but a governmental bill. Meaning it is not being presented by any specific member of Knesset, but by the government itself.
Re:One impoertant piece of information is missing by Sun · 2012-12-22 07:09 · Score: 1

This is actually not a private bill, but a governmental bill. Meaning it is not being presented by any specific member of Knesset, but by the government itself.
I am not 100% sure about this, but I believe you are wrong. "Governmental bill" means that the MP who signed off on this atrocity is a member of the government. There is still someone specific to blame.
When I get a chance, I'll go through Knesset site and search for the specific proposal.
Shachar
Re:One impoertant piece of information is missing by jonklinger · 2012-12-22 08:14 · Score: 1

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%97%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%94_%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9C#.D7.94.D7.A6.D7.A2.D7.AA_.D7.97.D7.95.D7.A7_.D7.9E.D7.9E.D7.A9.D7.9C.D7.AA.D7.99.D7.AA

This used to be a joke... by CanEHdian · 2012-12-22 06:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

block or restrict access to specific websites involved either in gambling, child pornography or copyright infringement.

It used to be a joke when "copyright infringement" was put in the same category as serious offences, see this wonderful video. Are these politicians out of their mind, or are these people bought and paid for as the video suggests?

--
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.

Re:This used to be a joke... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:46 · Score: 0

People might object to a pure anti-piracy bill. No one would protest an anti-child porn bill.
Pedophiles are always a very convenient boogyman for lawmakers.

communist laws vs human rights by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:00 · Score: 0

is governments getting rid of civil rights and human rights in favor of communist type of laws.

hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:01 · Score: -1, Flamebait

the jews are now acting worse then nazis all they need do is start a genocide oh wait ..palestinians anyone....

Re:hitler would be proud by kthreadd · 2012-12-22 06:11 · Score: 1, Insightful

the jews are now acting worse then nazis all they need do is start a genocide oh wait ..palestinians anyone....
Israel is not just Jews. This story is about the political power in Israel, it has nothing to do with Judaism.
Re:hitler would be proud by Nerdfest · 2012-12-22 06:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians. The converse however is not true.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:40 · Score: 1, Interesting

"I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians."
Of course they don't say it; they're much to smart for that. (Imagine the international repercussions.) Instead, they just methodically take slow steps towards that end, taking West Bank resources and land, effectively imprisoning Gaza, calculating just enough calories to keep Palestinians alive but stunt the physical and brain growth of their children to ensure a stupid and obedient next generation, etc.
Re:hitler would be proud by ladoga · 2012-12-22 06:52 · Score: 2, Informative

Except that if you want to get into politics in Israel you have to recognize the state of Israel as a Jewish state.

In other words, people who belong to certain religious group are more equal than others.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:55 · Score: 0

If the situation was reversed you might well hear it. As it is low cost worker have to come from some where.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians. The converse however is not true.
There certainly are extreme factions within the Palestinian community who want to kill all Israelis, just like there are extremists in Israel which want to kill all Palestinians. Wasn't it Rabbi Meir Kahane who called Arabs a "cancer" that had to be cut out of the flesh of Israel? How do his utterances differ from those of the most hateful of the Hamas extremists? The man advocated the abolishment of democracy in Israel in the event that Israeli Arabs became more numerous than Jews to secure the dominance of the Jews because otherwise, by the rules of democracy, the Jews would get outvoted. To me that sounds like a pretty close description of the apartheid state in S-Africa. There are ignorant fanatics on both sides, your attempts to try to convince us that the viewpoints of the most extreme of the Palestinian fanatics are the views of all Palestinians everywhere just serves to highlight how intolerant and ignorant you are yourself.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:08 · Score: 0, Insightful

Actions speak louder than words, and Israel's actions are unambiguously saying they want to displace or kill all Palestinians.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:09 · Score: -1

they didn't say they want to..... but they do it anyway
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:25 · Score: 0

Got a link to where "Palestine" in its entirety says "we want to kill all Israelis"?
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:01 · Score: 1, Insightful

Unless of course you're in the 20% of the Israeli parliament that's Arab or one of the many parties that doesn't care about religion or is anti-religious.
Israel is a Jewish state like America is a Christian country. I.e. they're not really.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:04 · Score: 2, Informative

You're entirely right, except you missed the part where Israel made Meir Kahane's faction illegal in the country.
Contrast this with Hamas or Fatah where Kill all Jews and destroy Israel is literally in their charter.
It might very well be that the view is extreme, but as long as that is the view of their government, that's the main view you have to worry about.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.
The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:15 · Score: 0

misinformation about israel?
man... now i've seen everything.
Re:hitler would be proud by sentientbeing · 2012-12-22 08:19 · Score: 4, Informative

This is bullshit. Israel defines itself as a Jewish state. It demands that other people recognize it as such.

The US specifically defines itself NOT as a Christian state.

--

------
beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:19 · Score: 1

No however they have been caught sending military memos that dictate that for every Israeli citizen killed they will kill ten Palestinian civilians. All Israelis are valid targets as military service is compulsory, the same does not stand for the Palestinians. Since this has already Godwinned, you really would think that any Jew and every Israeli would know what they are doing to Gaza is immoral and very close to that which they most hate. But that's the problem with post traumatic stress on such a large scale the people are still screwed from WW2.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:31 · Score: 0

I didn't know the JIDF visited slashdot.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:47 · Score: -1

Amen to that brother and may God bless America.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:54 · Score: -1

the jews are now acting worse then nazis all they need do is start a genocide oh wait ..palestinians anyone....
Fuck you idiot
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 09:17 · Score: 1

While jews in general are great peole and to stereotype them as such is is wrong.
The statement that "some Zoinists are becoming worse then Nazi's" may be fairly correct. I know nothing of the ones oversease, but there are a few congressmen and government officials in America who are very fascist in nature.
Of course theres great ones too. Thank god they more or less balance eachother out, however I would like to see more tolerance for everyone in politics. Even the worst of the worst people deserve some compassion in this world.
Re:hitler would be proud by dkleinsc · 2012-12-22 09:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

Technically correct, and completely symbolic and irrelevant.
Israeli policy in the West Bank has typically been to take land by force and demand that the Palestinians do nothing about it. Israeli policy in the Gaza Strip has been to blockade all shipments to the area and to forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, and then periodically "mow the grass" (this is the Israeli term for their periodic indiscriminate bombing of Gaza).
Any reasonably fair way of looking at the conflict in the Levant acknowledges three basic facts:
1. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been absolutely brutal, including attacking and terrorizing civilians.
2. Israel is currently winning by a wide margin. For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died, and approximately 10 Israelis died. Or you can look at who controls what land. Or you can look at the casualties over the last 10 years, which give Israel approximately a 6:1 advantage.
3. Neither Israel nor Hamas nor Fatah operate within the bounds of international law.

--
I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 09:48 · Score: 0

completely wrong. If Israel wanted to eradicate the palestinians they are more than capable of doing so.
Since they haven't it is obvious that that is not their goal.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 09:58 · Score: 3, Informative

You're entirely right, except you missed the part where Israel made Meir Kahane's faction illegal in the country.
Contrast this with Hamas or Fatah where Kill all Jews and destroy Israel is literally in their charter.
It might very well be that the view is extreme, but as long as that is the view of their government, that's the main view you have to worry about.
In 1948 a group of Jewish militia murdered count Folke Bernadotte. This was the same Folke Bernadotte who negotiated with the Nazis for the release of thousands of prisoners form Nazi death camps while most of the rest of the world was refusing to believe these camps existed. Bernadotte then became a central figure in organising a convoy of vehicles to travel from Sweden (running a gauntlet of Allied submarines and naval mines) to collect these people. Clearly these Jewish activists had murdered a man who by rights belonged on that deservedly much admired list of the Righteous among the Nations that the Yad Vashem in Israel keeps. Now if you thought that the state of Israel threw the book at the killers of this man, you would be wrong. They did convict them of murder but then immediately pardoned them. One of the shot callers behind the murder, Nathan Yellin-Mor, was even elected to the Knesset. The moral of this story is that the state of Israel has a long history, going back to it's foundation, of appearing to severely punish extremists like the Kahane faction only to let them off the hook once Israel's leaders feel the dust has settled.
P.S. In case you are wondering, the last time I checked Bernadotte had still not been added to the list of Righteous among the Nations even though his convoy rescued hundreds of Danish Jews from Theresienstadt concentration camp and thereby from certain death. The murder of Bernadotte continues to clog up relations between Sweden and Israel today, over half a century later.
Re:hitler would be proud by ddfire · 2012-12-22 10:07 · Score: 1

hey did you know there are muslims and arabs in the israeli congres? oh no? yes you are just an ignorant troll....
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 10:16 · Score: 1

completely wrong. If Israel wanted to eradicate the palestinians they are more than capable of doing so.
Since they haven't it is obvious that that is not their goal.
There is a difference between being able to do something and getting away with it. If Israel really let loose it's extremists and committed large scale pogroms on the Palestinians even the USA could possibly protect them but practically every other country on earth would embargo Israel and freeze it's assets. They got away with the pogroms in Sabra and Shatila because it happened in Lebanon and the people involved were mostly their Lebanese stooges. A Knesset investigation blamed Ariel Sharon and several army commanders for the Sabra and Shatila pogrom and not doing jack shit to stop it. Predictably Arial Sharon never suffered any consequences.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 10:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

Technically correct, and completely symbolic and irrelevant.
Israeli policy in the West Bank has typically been to take land by force and demand that the Palestinians do nothing about it. Israeli policy in the Gaza Strip has been to blockade all shipments to the area and to forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, and then periodically "mow the grass" (this is the Israeli term for their periodic indiscriminate bombing of Gaza).
Any reasonably fair way of looking at the conflict in the Levant acknowledges three basic facts:
1. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been absolutely brutal, including attacking and terrorizing civilians.
2. Israel is currently winning by a wide margin. For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died, and approximately 10 Israelis died. Or you can look at who controls what land. Or you can look at the casualties over the last 10 years, which give Israel approximately a 6:1 advantage.
3. Neither Israel nor Hamas nor Fatah operate within the bounds of international law.
I know a doctor who has been going to Gaza for years to operate on people injured and crippled in Israeli attacks. According to him, while the Israelis don't block medical shipments, they delay them until medications are time expired and they do things like store delicate medical equipment outside exposed to the elements until it is useless before releasing it or search sealed sterile containers without resealing them properly resulting in equipment arriving full of dust and dirt i.e. useless. If you want to get medical equipment into Gaza you are better off shipping medicine and medical equipment to Egypt and then negotiating with criminals to smuggle it into Gaza via tunnels. At least that way it will get to Gaza in a usable condition. The Israelis will also refuse medical professionals and aid workers entry after making them wait for weeks, without any rational explanation as to why they are being turned back.
Re:hitler would be proud by offerk · 2012-12-22 11:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

> For instance, in the last dust-up, approximately 1200 Gazans died
According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cloud_Pillar ) this is actually the number of Palestinians *injured*, not killed:
"Between 158 and 177 Palestinians died in the operation, with between 55 and 120 of them being combatants. An additional 1,200-1,300 Palestinians were injured, and between 350 and 700 Palestinian families displaced."

--
I learn from all my mistakes, I intend to be a genius at the end of my life.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 11:28 · Score: 0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.
The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant - It's official Hamas Policy.
The Fatah charter said it until 2010. Now it doesn't specifically name Israel or Jews, but still outlines the struggles against the enemy that must continue, so take that for what it's worth.
Are you really trying to tell us that just because Hamas says something it must follow that every Palestinian everywhere agrees with it? You are sticking a label on an entire population which is a strong indication of the fact that you are closed minded and ignorant.
Re:hitler would be proud by Mikachu · 2012-12-22 15:02 · Score: 1

And half of the debate in Parliament is whether or not "Jewish" refers to an ethnic group or a religious group.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 15:13 · Score: 0

I don't recall Israel saying they wanted to kill all Palestinians. The converse however is not true.
There certainly are extreme factions within the Palestinian community who want to kill all Israelis,
Right. They're called the Palestinian community.
Apparently you are not aware that the Palestinian identity was manufactured in the late 20th century as a propaganda weapon to assist one Arab terrorist organization, the Palestine Liberation Organization (formerly the Army of Holy War), in seizing the remaining free portions of the Jewish territory of Palestine from its rightful owners, the people who used to be called Palestinians in the early 20th century, the Jews.
The Palestinian identity exists for the sole purpose of inciting Arabs to kill the Jews and take their land.

just like there are extremists in Israel which want to kill all Palestinians. Wasn't it Rabbi Meir Kahane who called Arabs a "cancer" that had to be cut out of the flesh of Israel?
And wasn't Kahane declared a terrorist, expelled from Israel, and his party outlawed? Yes, he was.
Incidentally, Kahane was killed in one of al-Qaeda's first operations in the United States. They followed it up by bombing the World Trade Center.

The man advocated the abolishment of democracy in Israel in the event that Israeli Arabs became more numerous than Jews to secure the dominance of the Jews because otherwise, by the rules of democracy, the Jews would get outvoted.
Because without a generations-long forced re-education programme that would also threaten democracy, the Arabs would immediately vote to outlaw the Jews and take all their stuff on the grounds that the Arabs are the superior race. It offends the average Arab to see Jews in the middle class, let alone having their own government with an army. For centuries, Jews have been the lowest class of humanity -- in the good times when they were considered human -- and they were routinely raided for their property, when they managed to acquire any, or just for the fun of killing Jews. For any Jew to be better off than any Arab is an offense to all Arabs and is considered a capital crime for which the death penalty is appropriate.
The Arabs who have grown out of thinking that way call themselves "Israelis" and are proud of it.

To me that sounds like a pretty close description of the apartheid state in S-Africa.
To me it sounds like you've heard a lot of unjustified comparisons of racially-equal Israel with South Africa, you know nothing about Israel or else you would have immediately seen how stupid this comparison is, you are probably too young to have remembered apartheid South Africa, and you are just repeating what you've heard without thinking.
You are also assigning blame to all of Israel for a proposal by the Israeli equivalent of Lyndon LaRouche that never came close to being enacted.

There are ignorant fanatics on both sides
This is a meaningless statement that makes the reader stupider.
The Arab ignorant fanatics are in power. They run the school systems to ensure that the next generation is also ignorant fanatics. They shoot anyone who speaks for peace on the grounds that they must be collaborators. They are about 80%-95% of the population.
The Israeli ignorant fanatics have never been in power. They are about 2%-5% of the population. Even the right-wing and religious parties reject their views.
So yes, there are fanatics on both sides, but the fanatics on the Arab side are far and away a more serious problem than the fanatics on the Jewish side.

your attempts to try to convince us that the viewpoints of the most extreme of the Palestinian fanatics are the views of all Palestinians everywhere
You really don't get it. The Palestinians
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 16:12 · Score: 0

Israeli policy in the West Bank has typically been to take land by force and demand that the Palestinians do nothing about it.
That is a lie. First, all of the West Bank was ceded to Israel by the 1994 treaty, ending the dispute over who owns the land. Israel has since ceded the majority of Arab land to the Palestinians. The remainder, circa 80% of the land, is Israeli state property just as it was before Jordanian state property and Ottoman state property.
Some Arab land was taken to build the barrier to stop sniper fire and the movement of armed forces, but there was a clear need. All Israeli settlements since the late 1970s have been on state property or on privately-held Jewish property.
On the other hand, the Arabs are developing on land that Israel has not yet ceded and still technically owns, and Israel is doing nothing about it.

Israeli policy in the Gaza Strip has been to blockade all shipments to the area
That is a lie. Israel inspects all shipments to Gaza. Items of military value are restricted unless they are allocated for a specific civilian need. The vast majority of aid to Gaza goes through Israel.

and to forcibly prevent anyone from leaving
That is a lie. Workers travel across the border. Medical patients are routinely taken to Israeli hospitals. And if Israel did forcibly prevent anyone from leaving, it would be fully justified by the state of war.

and then periodically "mow the grass" (this is the Israeli term for their periodic indiscriminate bombing of Gaza).
There is at least one lie there. Israeli bombing is among the least indiscriminate in the world. They have a specific military target for every weapon fired and they are trained to have the most disciplined fire control in the world because there are so many news cameras on them. This is why so few civilians die in each bombing of Gaza.
Were you not aware that the bombings of Gaza were among the least harmful to civilians of any urban bombardments in human history? Maybe you should study military history.

Any reasonably fair way of looking at the conflict in the Levant acknowledges three basic facts:
1. Both Israelis and Palestinians have been absolutely brutal, including attacking and terrorizing civilians.
That is a lie. The Israelis have emphatically not been attacking or terrorizing civilians, and incidents of Israeli brutality are few, far between, and punished when they occur.

2. Israel is currently winning by a wide margin.
That is a lie. Israel has lost south Lebanon. Israel has lost Gaza. Israel is losing the West Bank. Israel at best managed a stalemate in its attacks on Hamas and Hezbollah, and its internal security is deteriorating.

Or you can look at who controls what land.
Ah, the infamous fake map. You don't really believe that bullshit, do you?
Panel 1: The green areas are all land not privately owned by Jews. Arabs owned about twice as much land area as the Jews and the remaining 70% was owned by the state, the Jewish National Home of Palestine. In brief, the map is lying. The terrorist organization now known as the "Palestinians" did not yet exist; "Palestinian" at this time meant Jewish. That is another lie. To expose a third lie, as of early 1946 Palestine Transjordan was under British mandate and the map should include it to be honest.
Panel 2: The map lies in claiming the green areas as Palestinian land because the proposed division would be between the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Palestine. The map lies in claiming a relationship to the first panel because the two panels show different things. The map lies again in implying that the UN partition plan would have meant anything because it was never accepted.
Panel 3: The map lies in claiming t
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 18:32 · Score: 0

I also hear they poison the wells and drink their blood...
Give me a break. When will you idiots stop spreading this nonsense?
Re:hitler would be proud by gidyn · 2012-12-22 20:06 · Score: 1

Meir Kahane's party was outlawed for its racist platform. The "fanatics" on the Palestinian side are the ruling power in Gaza.
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 21:55 · Score: 0

This is a simple, yet accurate and crucial statement.
When people understand that simple fact, they will understand the basics of the situation in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is not everything, but it is the most basic thing. However, if people fail to understand or to notice this simple fact, there is no chance they would understand anything meaningful about the conflict.
After recognition of this simple fact, it would be clearer to understand the following simple truth: any moment the Palestinian would decide "let there be peace" - there will be peace; Israel strives for peace, in its core, in its culture, and always did - the people and also their leaders - but the problem is that it takes two to make peace, and one to make war.
Re:hitler would be proud by OldKingCole · 2012-12-23 00:42 · Score: 0

You're talking about ONE individual who most people reading /. don't even know and was murdered in 1948 for reasons you fail to provide. Even if I accept your story fully, how does that show anything about Israelies wanting to kill all Palestinians? I suggest you read about Palestinian Fedayeen, maybe your logic will lead you to think all Palestinians want all Israelies dead (if you're not convinced by Hamas and Fattah official statements)
Re:hitler would be proud by rtb61 · 2012-12-23 08:14 · Score: 1

By that I guess you mean proportional representation including for those refugees banned from returning by the Israeli congress, hmm, what no, well you gotta be a propagandist troll them! Token representation by a few Uncle Toms is meaningless.

--
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Re:hitler would be proud by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-23 14:06 · Score: 0

While Stern gang, and other terrorist groups are considered national heroes and got to the top of the new government. Some of the organisations such as haganah became what is today israeli occupation forces and they are proud of their terrorist roots.

Seriously not flamebait... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:20 · Score: 1

Why is 'because holocaust' acceptable to defend deplorable acts of the Israeli government and yet 'because slavery' is not acceptable to rationalize the deplorable acts of a minority of people with a darker skin tone than their European cousins?

Re:Seriously not flamebait... by wonkey_monkey · 2012-12-22 06:28 · Score: 1

Why is 'because holocaust' acceptable to defend deplorable acts of the Israeli government
Who's saying it is?

the deplorable acts of a minority of people with a darker skin tone than their European cousins?
Which acts by the descendants of slaves are you thinking of?

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Re:Seriously not flamebait... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:00 · Score: 0

1) Any time anyone brings up things that the Israeli government does in bad light is branded anti-semitic by a very powerful and vocal group.
2) I'm talking about general street crime and social disadvantages as a result of racism. Slavery might have ended a while ago but segregation and state sanctioned racism is still well within living memory. When this is brought up however, we're told to 'get over it', that was 'a long time ago and has no relevance to society now'.
Re:Seriously not flamebait... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 11:10 · Score: 0

Why is 'because holocaust' acceptable to defend deplorable acts of the Israeli government
Who's saying it is?
Depressingly often, when I see Jewish activists and Israelis, arguing with other people about controversial things that Israel does, as soon as they get painted into a corner, they start to bringing up the holocaust or accusing their opponents of being anti semites. It's a very convenient tactic because it forces their opponent to stop successfully painting them into a corner about bombing the bajeezes out of the Gaza strip and killing 1200 people over a few Katyusha rockets and defend himself against charges of being a holocaust denier and a neo-nazi.
Re:Seriously not flamebait... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 15:12 · Score: 0

Because we had a battle for ownership of victimhood and cultural guilt a while back. The Jews won. The blacks lost.
Now just get over with it. Its 'facts on the ground' as they say.

Also, they should burn all the unjewish books by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 06:24 · Score: 0

Inappropriate?

dislosed? by wonkey_monkey · 2012-12-22 06:25 · Score: 2

will not be even dislosed to the owner of the website

And a few consonants will be removed.

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.

Why The Need for Such Secrecy? by hduff · 2012-12-22 06:30 · Score: 2

If they are trying to do good in a legal way, why does the government need such secrecy?

i.e. If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?

--
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert

There's a theocratic aspect to this by Animats · 2012-12-22 06:45 · Score: 5, Informative

Note that the proposed law gives the power to censor to the Israeli justice minister. Yaakov Neeman, the current justice minister, is kind of weird. News articles:

"A glimpse at the life of Israel's controversial justice minister" (Haaretz)
"Yaakov Neeman, Israeli Justice Minister, Says Jewish Law Must Become Binding " ""Step by step we will bestow religious law upon the citizens of Israel and transform religious law into the binding law of the state,"
Israel's justice minister advises rightists on how to seek pardons for Jewish terrorists (Haaretz)

There's a sizable ultra-orthodox faction in Israel which wants a political system where rabbis run things. Neeman is from that faction. Israel already has rabbinical courts, but they're currently restricted to ruling on religious issues and divorces. Neeman has said he wants to expand the authority of rabbinical courts, which in Israel are dominated by ultra-othodox rabbis.

Ultra-orthodox groups are very anti-Internet. This goes way beyond censoring pornography. There are special censored ISPs that only allow a list of 400 approved sites, most of which are religious.

So that's where this may be going, or at least where one faction would like to go. (Israel politics is currently deadlocked worse than US politics. There are many parties, none with a majority, and shifting coalitions. Different factions control different ministries as part of the deals made to put coalitions together. Just because the Justice Minister wants something doesn't mean the Government does.)

Its good to know we are not... by 3seas · 2012-12-22 06:48 · Score: 1

...individuals....

What the Fu& is this nations crap all about..... I'm not a nation and neither are you.

The more open we are about the fact of being individuals the less those in command and control over "nations" have over us individuals.

Who is editing the internet? by 3seas · 2012-12-22 06:57 · Score: 1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/18/wikipedia-editing-zionist-groups

Secretly blocking a site? by Threni · 2012-12-22 07:20 · Score: 1

How does that work? Either you can get to the site or you can't. Perhaps the IsItDownForJustMe type sites can be extended: IsItDownForJustOtherIsraelisOrEverythingElseToo.com perhaps?

Re:Secretly blocking a site? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:34 · Score: 0

No. The idea is that the site is blocked and the owner isn't informed about it. In addition, the site will likely behave as if it is broken. They won't display "blocked by the FBI" or whatever. It'll just say the site isn't accessible. Possibly some default message.
It'll likely work about as well as the Swedish child porn filter. (ie not at all)

Per country slashdot? by techhead79 · 2012-12-22 07:24 · Score: 1

Ok. I live in a country with 300 million plus inhabitants. Why should I care about a country with 8 million? Likewise why should someone in china give two craps about US tech news...

Re:Per country slashdot? by JustNiz · 2012-12-22 10:31 · Score: 1

Because for some reason, the US seems think everyone should be disproportionately concerned about Israel.
I guess thats an indicator of the degree of Jewish money/power/influence over the government and media in the USA.
Re:Per country slashdot? by tftp · 2012-12-22 13:39 · Score: 1

Israel is disproportionally important in technology and in politics. It's one of nuclear club countries. If the World War III starts, it probably will start somewhere around there.

This is a draft by the ministry of justice by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:25 · Score: 1

They don't have any elected officials behind this yet.
The government isn't behind this yet either.
We're one month away from the elections.
Literally everything legislative is on hold, which is why this didn't get any media attention in Israel.
The chances it gets started before 2014 are slim.
The chances it gets the approval of Netanyahu is zero.
He routinely kills such laws proposed by back benchers to limit the damage to Israel's reputation only to things he really cares about such as settlements...

Back to watching CSI re-runs...

Are you sure this is Israel? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 07:27 · Score: 0

This sounds more like a certain country just south of Canada.

Note: Access to the web site above may be blocked in your country.

Everyday in denmark since 2005 by pinkishpunk · 2012-12-22 07:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

In 2005 such a DNS based filter was rolled out here in Denmark, First toured as a filter against Child pornography, as a none binding aggrement between the danish branch of save the children and the biggest Isp. By design its ofcause a none public liste, later in 2006 allofmp3.com was blocked using the same system, then the pirate bay was added, then sites that sells medicin that requires a prescription, and the lates addion was gamling sites that doesnt pay danish tax. In 2008 the list was leaked ( http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Denmark:_3863_sites_on_censorship_list%2C_Feb_2008 ) , was found to be blocking sites not related to what it was intented to, legitime sites. It always starts out as against Child pornography, and then they will start put more and more into it.

Halleluja by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 08:24 · Score: 0

I heard there was a secret court
Knesset used and it pleased the horde
but you don't really care for justice, do ya?

A piece of non-news... by urdak · 2012-12-22 08:58 · Score: 2

The summary, as well as the article, contains the sentence "Israel is to attempt, again, to pass a bill ...".
Another way to phrase it is: "The bill did *not* pass last time, and may end up not passing again.".
Sounds less sinister, doesn't it? And non-news....

In other words., unlike some other countries (most notably the U.S.) where laws for taking down Websites have passed and have been used, laws outlawing various behaviors that have nothing to do with copying as "copyright circumvention", laws allowing people to be banished from the Internet have passed etc., - none of this crap exists in Israel. So if anything, the Internet freedom situation is *better* in Israel than in most countries.

Re:A piece of non-news... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 12:46 · Score: -1

OK Haim, don't get your knickers in a twist; I doubt the summary is an attempt to diss your very existence.
Re:A piece of non-news... by alexo · 2012-12-24 04:42 · Score: 1

The summary, as well as the article, contains the sentence "Israel is to attempt, again, to pass a bill ...".
Another way to phrase it is: "The bill did *not* pass last time, and may end up not passing again.".
Sounds less sinister, doesn't it? And non-news....
Raising awareness helps ensure it will fail to pass again.
This is what makes it news (or, at least, worth publishing).

Nazi Jews? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 09:24 · Score: -1

For a nation of people who suffered through a genocide by a fascist state, there couldn't be a more shameful thing than to turn their own country into a fascist state. UN gave them their country, and they should have it taken away for this kind of nonsense.

We shall condemn Israel by ComradeMauser · 2012-12-22 10:23 · Score: 0

Israel has to be condemned for trying to pass the law outlawing freedoms. If the law will fail to pass, we shall condemn Israel for condoning the crimes that the bill targets. Israel, what would we do without it?!!

Maybe I understand it wrong by skitchen8 · 2012-12-22 11:08 · Score: 1

But isn't copyright infringement a civil matter? The state can prosecute you for gambling, and child pornography, but doesn't an individual or company have to file a claim for copyright infringement? This seems like a ridiculous thing for a national level government to be concerning itself with.

IWF by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-22 19:41 · Score: 0

This sounds a lot like the the IWF blacklist in use in the UK.

Typical AC by SmallFurryCreature · 2012-12-22 23:13 · Score: 2

Google Mufti of Jeruzalem. A man much admired by Fatah and its leadership and one of the architects of the holocaust.

Your turn.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:

You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

Re:Typical AC by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-23 00:47 · Score: 0

Google Mufti of Jeruzalem. A man much admired by Fatah and its leadership and one of the architects of the holocaust.
Your turn.
So you are pointing at one Palestinian Arab Nazi sympathiser and trying to make the case that because he was a Nazi sympathiser all Palestinians must also be Nazis by association with him? There is actually a term for this kind of tactic: "reductio ad hitlerum". Once gain we can see just how intolerant and ignorant you are yourself.... and you forgot to anonymise the post like your previous ones.
Re:Typical AC by alexo · 2012-12-24 04:21 · Score: 1

You neglected to read the rest of his statement: "A man much admired by Fatah and its leadership"

Nacht und Nebel by hoboroadie · 2012-12-23 01:51 · Score: 1

Yes, let the Law have the all liberty it wants, wherever it live.

--
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.

This is how it should be in a secure state... by hoboroadie · 2012-12-23 02:07 · Score: 1

Not every single issue merits going through a public referendum.

Atta boy, Adolph!

--
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.

Why The Need for Secrecy? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-23 02:27 · Score: 0

If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?

Here's yet another subject to block: "J" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-23 02:43 · Score: 0

I'm surprised that no one brought up blocking Daniel Boyarin's material because he DARE blur the distinctions between Christianity and Judaism.

Everyday by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-23 02:59 · Score: 0

As a mature adult, I rather enjoy making my own distinctions and discerning whether I should benefit from exposure to sites on the internet. I browse /. at -1.

No thanks, bro, I can handle it.

Theocracy? Oh, no. It's THIS GUY again. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-24 03:54 · Score: 0

Ultra-orthodox groups are very anti-Internet. [nymag.com] This goes way beyond censoring pornography. There are special censored ISPs that only allow a list of 400 approved sites, most of which are religious.

Pornography and gambling are merely red herrings. There is a conversation out there the complexity of which rivals the Talmud itself. It is about a certain first-century Galilean and his talmidim and how that threatened the status quo and why. Since these already HAVE Israeli citizenship, it would be more difficult to exclude (i.e. Gary & Shirley Beresford). Daniel Boyarin has already blown a wormhole between the Jewish and Christian world. The rebbes are soiling themselves in fear for loss of their (information) control.

As for Halacha becoming a source of law in Israel, it already is in family law and personal status. It's a carry over from the Ottoman "millet system". The only foreseeable issues are when Law of Entry and the conversion and grandparent clauses in the Law of Return are abolished. This will make Israel into a true theoethnic state. The polity will consist solely of those born into the condition much like the vast majority of nation-states in the world. It's great for those who qualify. However, for those who are "Jew enough to gas and burn and not enough for the Law of Return", there will be problems. he Internet will make it impossible for people to hide their ancestry for the purposes of assimilation. The tefillin recovered from the bottom of the Hudson River some years ago attest to this.

Slashdot Mirror

Israeli Bill Would Allow Secret Blacklists For Websites

132 comments