Raspberry Pi vs. Cheap Android Dongle: Embarrassment of (Cheap) Riches

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Raspberry Pi vs. Cheap Android Dongle: Embarrassment of (Cheap) Riches

Posted by timothy on Thursday December 27, 2012 @03:22AM from the fight-fight-fight dept.

New submitter Copper Nikus writes "The price of Android Mini PCs have recently dropped to the point they are starting to make the Raspberry Pi look overpriced. This article compares the Raspberry Pi model B against the similarly priced MK802 II single core Android mini PC. IMO it can be argued that the mini PC wins that fight. It's worth noting that several new quad-core Chinese ARM SoCs have been recently released to the world, and it can be expected to see Android mini PCs start using them in the very near future. This should translate into even lower prices for the now 'obsolete' generations of single and dual core Andoid mini PCs out there." The target markets and base OS vary, but there's enough overlap for this comparison to make some sense — both have ARM chips, both can (to varying degrees) run either Android or a more conventional Linux distro, and both can fit in a small pocket.

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My god by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 03:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

who cares... Everything that needed a computer now has one, this is just toys for toys' sake.
hardware vs software by DECula · 2012-12-27 03:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

you are missing a critical point. break out the IO on the USB dongle. Make it turn lights on
and off. sure, you can slave it to other USB devices, but there is a nice IO header on the
PI for those who wish to play with it. it's comparing apples to oranges.
The PI was made with hardware tinkering in mind, the USB dongles - not so much.

--
dreaded scurrilous bit-twiddler from Oklahoma
1. Re:hardware vs software by Skapare · 2012-12-27 03:33 · Score: 2
  
  You mean it takes a Pi (as breakout box) to make the mini PC do useful stuff?
  
  --
  now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
2. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  You are on Slashdot; insightful comments should show up only after hundreds of lame jokes, stupid ideas and other typical garbage specific to Slashdot readers. Case in point, this comment.
3. Re:hardware vs software by samkass · 2012-12-27 03:41 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  indeed... from the comparison:
  Expansion Headers
  MK802: N/A
  RPi: Yes. Provide access to GPIO, I2C, SPI, etc DSI (for LCD display) and CSI-2 (for camera) interfaces are also available
  In addition, the MK802 runs the "source available, but developed in secret" Android OS, while the RPi runs the truly open source Debian by default and a zillion other true open source Linux distros with easy download.
  The RPi is for the tinkerer. The MK802 is for someone who wants pre-packaged plastic to do one of a limited number of preordained things.
  
  --
  E pluribus unum
4. Re:hardware vs software by slashmydots · 2012-12-27 03:42 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You're right. The words "cheap" and "Chinese" are sort of red flags that maybe you won't find such nice USB headers and will have power distribution problems or noise on the audio ports or heat issues or bad liquid capacitors or any variety of cheap hardware problems.
5. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 03:44 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  In Soviet Russia USB dongles you.
6. Re:hardware vs software by EGenius007 · 2012-12-27 03:45 · Score: 2
  
  I hope the Pi is the Apple in this comparison. Orange Pi sounds disgusting.
  
  --
  I know what you did last summer. Just kidding, I don't work at the NSA.
7. Re:hardware vs software by SJHillman · 2012-12-27 03:48 · Score: 2
  
  So you're saying it's no coincidence the Chinese flag is red?
8. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 03:48 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe because the Pi introduced itself, with full flagged OS notion, as mini PC, vs. micro controller.
  Like Arduino has always been, and still is, IMO, the best platform the that kind of work.
9. Re:hardware vs software by TheGratefulNet · 2012-12-27 03:50 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  pi should have been 5v tolerant and not stuck in 3.3v-only i/o mode. yes, condition the lines. oh, the shock and horror! junior hardware *learners* that will probably blow up their pi when they over-volt the gpios.
  also, no mounting screw holes? sheesh. miss the obvious, why don't you.
  I own a set of pi's and the latest update did seem to help fix the elephant usb bug. I think (need to bang on it some more).
  the pi is a good start, but there are things they really missed on. I'd like to see a real effort with all the things they've learned. and I'd like it standard enough so that we can all use it as our new 'engines' in the embedded world.
  
  --
  
  --
  "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
10. Re:hardware vs software by afidel · 2012-12-27 04:01 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  limited number of preordained things.
  What ever are you babbling on about? Android is a general purpose OS built on a Linux foundation that can run any code you want to run on it (I run Debian in a chroot environment on my Android phone as just one example). Now I agree that the RPi has a more hardware-hacker friendly design, but that in no way makes the Android device limited to only certain things.
  
  --
  There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
11. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:05 · Score: 1
  
  There is no good technical reason to design something to 5V logic in the first place especially not like the Arduino _HAD_ to worry about backward compatibility with 5V logic in the first place. They made a bad engineering decision and forgot about forward compatibility.
  Most of the chips especially the interesting ones are 3.3V. When you are squeezing down the geometries, the amount of voltages the transistors can handle scales linearly. The whole industry had moved on lower I/O voltage for more than 20 years now.
12. Re:hardware vs software by VortexCortex · 2012-12-27 04:08 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I never understood the point. Splice a parallel port to a bread board and hook it to any beige box PC that folks are literally giving (or throwing) away. They're better than the Raspberry Pi in every way except size. You can hook a LED (maybe w/ resistor) directly to many of the pins of the parallel port and they light up representing the individual bits. IO doesn't have to be serialized and deserialized, so you don't have to use a RS232 or any other integrated circuit chips. The beige box also supports Serial and Universal Serial Bus (USB), not to mention a 56k Modem. Old beige box has more RAM, more peripherals, EASIER to work with parallel interface for hardware. Man, I swear. If I spray painted them brown and called them "Chocolate Quaternion" people would be buying them just as fast as the Raspberry Pi were it to get the same level of press. I mean, it's like the folks buying these don't even search around for ways to do hardware projects with the machines they've got or even look for other single board computers before buying one due to all the damn press the Raspberry Pi gets. I mean, $25 is great, but there's other options with various speeds and features at other prices. It's not the only $100 computer with a nice IO header, damn. Seriously.
13. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:29 · Score: 0
  
  Pretty sure there is probably a USB adapter for such a thing. Remember, there is USB for anything. Even cooking.
14. Re:hardware vs software by OakDragon · 2012-12-27 04:33 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Cheap Android dongle?
  Isn't that what Tasha Yar said when the intoxicant finally wore off?
  
  --
  Dark Reflection
15. Re:hardware vs software by capedgirardeau · 2012-12-27 04:36 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Early models did not have mounting holes, all the recent models do have mounting holes.
  USB issues have been improved greatly.
  What seems not to be possible is pumping video larger than 640x480 over the USB ports, otherwise, it is apparently working fine.
  
  --
  Wax on, wax off baby!
16. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:38 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  When you're ordering parts from Digi-Key, maybe they are all 3.3V. I have about a zillion unused perfectly good 5V TTL chips (think 74xx series) sitting around in my garage that would be handy to use in conjunction with a Pi, but with the 3.3V logic, I'd have to get a buffer to hook them up.
17. Re:hardware vs software by Microlith · 2012-12-27 04:41 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That you run Debian in a chroot to get at its power is evidence enough of Android's inherently crippled nature. It runs on the Linux kernel, but shares virtually nothing with the common Linux environment encountered everywhere else. Not surprising, given that Android was proprietary to start then opened to the world. An entirely custom stack that continues to be developed behind closed doors and just results in a duplication of effort.
  But it puts Google entirely in the driver's seat, which is where they want to be.
18. Re:hardware vs software by Lluc · 2012-12-27 04:48 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Are you serious? The biggest advantages of the Raspberry Pi are the community, size, and power consumption. With your 10-year-old beige box you get none of these -- I'm imagining your beige box is probably a 10 year old Pentium3 or Pentium4 Dell that you pulled out of the dumpster for free. It probably needs a new hard drive, the ~300 Watt power supply might be going out, and it's full of dust. It would run a mainstream (GUI) linux distribution at barely-acceptable levels of performance, and no one in the linux distribution forums would reply to your questions about how to debug problems on ancient hardware.
  
  Sounds like a great idea to me!
19. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:51 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  The $25 price point is the whole point. The other examples you refer to from digikey are at least 5 times that expensive, and some 20 times that. Even $100 puts things out of the range of a kid who wants to experiment and who doesn't have a full time job.
  Your point about experimenting with a beige box is well taken, but what a hassle it is to drag one around to where you need it, and it makes having a high voltage main pretty mandatory. What if I want to build something into a go-cart? Do I need to drag around 50 pounds of additional crap and an extension cord? To top that off, just adding an SD card adapter to the PC will incur half the cost of a Pi.
  The Pi is awesome, not because of the brand, but because of the low cost, light weight, small size, and availability of system software and interfaces.
20. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:56 · Score: 0
  
  That idea is absolutely retarded.
21. Re:hardware vs software by CastrTroy · 2012-12-27 04:58 · Score: 2
  
  There's a couple big things missing with the Pi. Firstly, as you mention, no mounting holes. But also no case. I guess this is fine for some people but I want a case that doesn't cost $15-$20. There are finally some cases that are coming out in the under $10 range, but it took a long time for them to come around. It doesn't come with an SD card, or a power supply. Which is fine, many people have them already, and you probably don't need one. But the Android computer on a stick comes with a power supply, and some onboard memory, and a case. Which if you decided to buy them for the Raspberry Pi, would come out to $20 or more. Which makes the Raspberry Pi seem like it's overpriced.
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
22. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:59 · Score: 1
  
  There are more than 20 74XX families these days and the MAJORITY of them are 3.3V or lower.
  There is NO GOOD technical reason to support only YOU and your 74XX part from the 1970's. That's how old the technology is. I got 3 part drawers full of that too, but I won't miss any of that. New parts are lower power and so much faster too. They have even stop making 5V CPLD in the last while.
  I looked around and not everyone uses TTL (or even add their own parts) for their Arduino projects either. The Arduino crowd are mostly BUY BUY BUY crowd that like to BUY their pre-made solutions anyways.
23. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:05 · Score: 1
  
  The point is I don't want to put this giant 10+ year old computer with whirring drives, fans, huge power supplies, and consuming hundreds of watts of power in my living room to simply control the blinds, or play video to my TV from my share drive, or act as a burglar alarm.
  Having a unobtrusive device with no moving parts that'll last 10+ years without maintenance is huge, and makes this thing into an appliance rather than a big ugly brick that'll break down in a couple years from HD failure, PS failure, etc.
  Plus it's actually a standard platform that other people can build for, rather than a big unknown about what the memory/processing/graphics/etc capabilities are. When there's knowns in those areas, people can actually co-operate rather than writing for an environment totally different than the one you might happen to have.
24. Re:hardware vs software by 50000BTU_barbecue · 2012-12-27 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  1960s actually. What I find interesting is that 3.6V was also a standard in the 1960s.
  
  --
  Mostly random stuff.
25. Re:hardware vs software by TheGratefulNet · 2012-12-27 05:14 · Score: 2
  
  there are LOTS of cases. I have 2 styles and they are mostly fine (not designed for 'shields' that would plug into the gpio header, though).
  but there is no mounting holes on the orig pi's and the whole point of an embedded system is to be embedded IN some other chassis. in my case, some audio controller chassis, where I want to glue in an ip-stack (webserver mostly) and have that be part of my audio system. it would be nice to simply add an rj45 to my rear chassis and then have the pi be inside my box, where its safe and no one knows or cares what is inside. but with no holes to mount onto standoffs, they missed their mark.
  adafruit has some nylon standoffs that can edge-hold or corner hold things and that's quite clever. I'll also need that on the open-logic-sniffer board ($50 from seeed studio) and those guys ALSO forgot about mounting holes. it seems you can be a board level designer (pretty smart) but still miss some obvious usability points.
  
  --
  
  --
  "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
26. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:15 · Score: 0
  
  You cannot run risc os on some GPL violating Android mini dongle.
  You always get the best results with an OS designed for the architecture you are using.
  I don't want Android I hate it. (Have a Xoom and I think the OS is terrible. I want to get Tizen on it one day).
27. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:20 · Score: 0
  
  You probably best buffer the IOs of the Pi anyway. The lines are straight from the SoC and quite fragile compared to IOs on common microcontrollers like the ATMega and PICs. And quite a bit more expensive to replace.
  Also, 74HC runs quite happily on 3.3V.
28. Re:hardware vs software by poetmatt · 2012-12-27 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  actually, the opposite is true. He just enabled everything he wanted *from* android.
  So no, this is not android being crippled.
29. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:24 · Score: 0
  
  I for one welcome our Android overlords?
30. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:36 · Score: 2
  
  I have done my share of "beige box" PC hardware interface projects, but power consumption, size and noise is pretty important. Also, having a consistent supply of the exact same old PC model is difficult. Differences might not be big, and for simple one-off projects it works, but it's not very elegant.
  I recently connected the door-bell of a store to a Pi using a simple opto-isolation circuit. The Pi is screwed to the wall right next to the old ding-dong door-bell and logs everything. Every five minutes the log is transmitted to a web server and stored in a DB. An administrative interface lets you see nice graphs of how many customers arrive and when, broken down hour by hour or day by day.
  I could have done it with an old PC, but I didn't feel like screwing such a heavy item to the wall. Also, even if the old box only needs 40W, even 40W continuously add up in the long run.
  Of course, I could also have used an "arduino" or compatible with the Ethernet-shield. I might also need to add a real time clock since it gets annoying to get NTP-time and count it on the AVR-CPU. However, those two together is almost the same cost as the Pi, and then the logging, time-stamping and sending to the internet would be a lot more complex.
  Now I just have a Python-script that logs everything to a file. A cron-job uploads the entire file to the webserver every five minutes. Another cron-job rotates the logs at midnight. Even if the internet goes down for an extended period of time or the server is unreachable everything will still be logged and sent when it works again.
  I used to work with the Biffer-board (which was quite similar in some ways to the Pi, except that it was x86 compatible, only 100MHz and lacked any video) and modified routers before, but the Pi has such a big community and sees a lot more active development that it's just much nicer to base your project on it. Also, having a full Debian instead of running OpenWRT is nice. (Yes, the Bifferboard could run full Debian if you used had a USB-flash drive for storage (since internal Flash was only 8MB), but Debian in 32MB RAM is still no fun)
31. Re:hardware vs software by jeffmeden · 2012-12-27 05:37 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  indeed... from the comparison:
  Expansion Headers
  MK802: N/A
  RPi: Yes. Provide access to GPIO, I2C, SPI, etc DSI (for LCD display) and CSI-2 (for camera) interfaces are also available
  In addition, the MK802 runs the "source available, but developed in secret" Android OS, while the RPi runs the truly open source Debian by default and a zillion other true open source Linux distros with easy download.
  The RPi is for the tinkerer. The MK802 is for someone who wants pre-packaged plastic to do one of a limited number of preordained things.
  Let's be honest though; unless you are talented and/or have a lot of time on your hands, Debian and other Linuxes are filled with nothing but "preordained things" on them as well. If you are indeed talented or are so inclined, you probably are going for the Pi or a similar setup (since you don't really "need" something small to play around with) and GPIO is the only other dividing line here; if you need it then the raspberry pi is clearly for you. If you don't, then it is a toss up with vastly more powerful "toys" (a quick search reveals dual core 1.6ghz with 1g ram, gpu accel, etc) on the Android side. If you are interested in the Pi for it's media or more desktop-like functionality, you are well off to investigate the Android options instead as they are VERY capable and packaged very nicely (the units often come in a small chassis with enough cables to hide completely out of sight behind a TV.)
32. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:41 · Score: 0
  
  The hardware breakout is of limited utility, one of the first boards for the pi was essentially an arduino to provide better i/o. If thats the recommended route for the pi you mayas well do the same for the dongle.
  With newer dongles using the RK3066 dual core rather than the pretty slow and clunky allwinner A10
  at the same price point the comparison becomes even less favourable for the pi. The fact that the ethernet on the pi is routed through the usb also means this hardly stands out as an advantage.
  This point remains that the community momentum built around the pi is what gives it traction. Arduinos were never the most advanded of platforms in either hardware or dev environment but still it changed the nature and extent of the hobbiest world.
  The impact of the pi on education and hobby projects will probably be just as great.
33. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:42 · Score: 0
  
  Farnell has the cases for £5 (Or maybe $5 I don't remember).
  Good thing about the pi is a reasonable amount of clueful users have one.
  With any random piece of Chinese junk it is quite random as to whether there is a decent source drop and whether a clueful dev has one.
  The fact that the H264 on the pi is licensed likely adds some money to the final cost.
34. Re:hardware vs software by citizenr · 2012-12-27 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  You're right. The words "cheap" and "Chinese" are sort of red flags that maybe you won't find such nice USB headers and will have power distribution problems or noise on the audio ports or heat issues or bad liquid capacitors or any variety of cheap hardware problems.
  You just described Rpi problems. Another common one is bad solder joints. All from Farnells Chinese factory.
  
  --
  Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
35. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:52 · Score: 0
  
  Try running it on a couple of AA batteries.
36. Re:hardware vs software by blind+biker · 2012-12-27 06:08 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  That you run Debian in a chroot to get at its power is evidence enough of Android's inherently crippled nature.
  Not so fast. The poster you replied to uses chroot to run Debian so he can use the GNU userland. This is necessary because Android uses a different userland. That does not mean Android is crippled - it is just a different open source OS than Linux.
  
  --
  "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
37. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:12 · Score: 0
  
  I haven't laughed that hard all year, thank-you for a great end-of-year laugh that I really needed :)
38. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:15 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Way to completely miss the point. Everyone has been saying for six months the Allwinner A10 would mop the floor with the RaspberryPi. RaspberryPi is out for less than a couple of months and I have already taken delivery of an ARMv7 CubieBoard which has BETTER GPIO than the RaspberryPi for a comparable price and better specs. Give it a couple of months and the Quad-Core SoCs discussed in the article will be on the next "CubieBoard" type indiegogo project and the Allwinner A10 + GPIO will be old news.
  Did I mention my CubieBoard can run Backtrack 5 for ARM? RaspberryPi is ARMv6 so it has pwnpi, which is cute.
  Raspberry Pi foundation has married themselves to an unnecessarily small footprint and a rapidly irrelevant SoC. Their ability to innovate is only as fast as they can shovel 2cm^2 of SMT on to a 1cm^2 plot and Broadcoms legal team can discuss the issue via Memo's.
  At this point, I write the software and develop on the state of the art, and then by the time my hardware development is done all I have to do is swap development boards and my project has doubled it's horsepower. How is the RaspberryPi going to keep up with Moore's Law? The education argument is bullshit. The RaspberryPi foundation is hoping to be the next "Arduino" selling 8 bit microcontrollers for $40. It's a question of how big of a cult following can they gather before the tide of progress rushes past them.
39. Re:hardware vs software by afidel · 2012-12-27 06:25 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Exactly, I wanted the GNU/Linux toolset which has only been ported to Android in chunks by people that want certain tools, it was easier to run Debian in chroot and apt-get install whatever I needed than it was to track down the combination of ports needed to get what I wanted (or port them myself). This is in no way an indictment of Android, just that my particular use case was kind of atypical and so the software I wanted hadn't been ported in one package and I was lazy.
  
  --
  There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
40. Re:hardware vs software by dindi · 2012-12-27 06:30 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  No, there is an exposed populated header (pins). You can buy a breadboard compatible breakout board that comes with a cable. One version is the cobbler kit http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-pi-cobbler-kit/overview for 7.95.
  You CAN connect 3.3v electronics without this kit (e.g. you can connect an Arduino pro to i2c or serial and double your pins adding PWM, AD inputs and so on.
41. Re:hardware vs software by blind+biker · 2012-12-27 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly, I wanted the GNU/Linux toolset which has only been ported to Android in chunks by people that want certain tools, it was easier to run Debian in chroot and apt-get install whatever I needed than it was to track down the combination of ports needed to get what I wanted (or port them myself). This is in no way an indictment of Android, just that my particular use case was kind of atypical and so the software I wanted hadn't been ported in one package and I was lazy.
  Indeed. One could argue that it's actually a strength of the OS to allow you to run Debian that way.
  Anyway, Android is opensource, so anyone can make anything they want with it - and some do, like Amazon. That means the OS isn't crippled at all in any way or form.
  
  --
  "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
42. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:42 · Score: 0
  
  OTOH "cheap Chinese" is a green flag that at least you'll have USB ports, unlike [the usual suspects] Sony/Apple crap.
  The best stuff will of course be Taiwanese, as it always has, but even over there you find dodgy stuff sometimes.
43. Re:hardware vs software by Alex+Belits · 2012-12-27 07:03 · Score: 1
  
  Arduino is an 8-bit microcontroller, running code compiled from C++, with disgusting Java-based IDE that is not Eclipse on top of it.
  
  --
  Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
44. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 07:05 · Score: 0
  
  I want this on a sticker to put on the back of my Android phone. Well done sir/madam.
45. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  The average android phone doesn't give you root, and what about the drivers? I feel more in iphone-land than in linux-land with android. What about some android 4 phones with mtp-only sync? Having to patch/recompile a linux system's libmtp only to talk via usb to another linux system? in 2012?
  I'd say stallman's "it is GNU/Linux!!!!" ceased being a childish fixation with the advent of android based phones.
46. Re:hardware vs software by AJodock · 2012-12-27 07:27 · Score: 1
  
  It probably needs a new hard drive, the ~300 Watt power supply might be going out
  Well its a good thing that the Raspberry PI comes with both of those things!
47. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  Considering they are both closed chips what does it matter, they both run binary crap. Atleast with A10 you can probably get a lot of information from the A13 manual, but good luck with the rasberry pi chip.
48. Re:hardware vs software by oodaloop · 2012-12-27 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  Nerdiest. Joke. Evar.
  
  --
  Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
49. Re:hardware vs software by i_want_you_to_throw_ · 2012-12-27 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  I hope the Pi is the Apple in this comparison. Orange Pi sounds disgusting.
  Well try this!
  
  Orange Pie
  Ingredients:
  1 (9 inch) unbaked pie crust
  3 egg yolks, beaten
  1/2 cup white sugar
  2 tablespoons all-purpose flour
  1 tablespoon butter, melted
  1 tablespoon grated orange zest
  1 cup orange juice
  3 egg whites
  6 tablespoons white sugar
  1 large orange, sliced in rounds
  
  Directions:
  1. Preheat oven to 450 degrees F (225 degrees C).
  2. In a medium bowl, beat together egg yolks and 1/2 cup sugar until mixture is thick and lemon-colored. Add flour, melted butter, grated orange rind, and orange juice. Mix thoroughly, then pour into pastry shell.
  3. Bake in preheated oven for 10 minutes. Reduce heat to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C) and bake an additional 25 minutes, until custard is set.
  4. In a large glass or metal mixing bowl, beat egg whites until foamy. Gradually add 6 tablespoons sugar, continuing to beat until whites form stiff peaks. Spread meringue over pie, covering completely. Return to oven for 10 minutes, until meringue is golden brown. Cool before serving. Garnish with orange slices.
  
  Ummmmmmmmmmmmm,................pie...
50. Re:hardware vs software by makomk · 2012-12-27 08:48 · Score: 2
  
  In addition, the MK802 runs the "source available, but developed in secret" Android OS, while the RPi runs the truly open source Debian by default and a zillion other true open source Linux distros with easy download.
  That's not quite right. The standard option for RPi these days is Raspbian, which is actually a clone of Debian developed and maintained by Raspberry Pi users. So you don't have the support of al the actual Debian infrastructure like their package archives, download mirrors, etc. Meanwhile the MK802 can run either Ubuntu or Debian (or various other OSes). You need a custom kernel just like on the Pi but nearly everything else is standard Debian/Ubuntu. (Ubuntu can't actually run on the Pi at all because the ARM processor's too old.)
51. Re:hardware vs software by pclminion · 2012-12-27 09:12 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That you run Debian in a chroot to get at its power is evidence enough of Android's inherently crippled nature. It runs on the Linux kernel, but shares virtually nothing with the common Linux environment encountered everywhere else. Not surprising, given that Android was proprietary to start then opened to the world. An entirely custom stack that continues to be developed behind closed doors and just results in a duplication of effort.
  Your post makes no sense. The fact that you can install a Debian build on an Android device (just did it myself yesterday) means that Android is... crippled? You must be using some definition of crippled I haven't heard of before. Yes, Android has a non-GNU userland. What's your point? That anything that deviates from the 40-year-old UNIX way of thinking is inherently immoral?
52. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 09:21 · Score: 0
  
  You obviously have no clue as to what chroot actually is. Go away, look it up, then come back and apologies.
53. Re:hardware vs software by slashmydots · 2012-12-27 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  Lol, I never realized that "China" in just about anything from manufacturing to website ownership to shipping sources to language settings are all gigantic red flags and their actual flag is also one giant red flag, lol. It's like they know!
54. Re:hardware vs software by slashmydots · 2012-12-27 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  I actually didn't know that but hey, you get the cheapest anything en masse, it's going to be bad. Those $60 android tablets are terrible too and their screens last about 2 weeks. Without volunteering or extremely low assembly volumes (and thus manufacturing overhead), you're going to get a piece of crap for that dollar level. Like if I make a custom bitcoin mining FPGA and can make all 100 personally in my basement but still get volume discounts on parts, it's going to be awesome and cheap. But a 20,000 square foot plant in China, that has some overhead that can't beat my basement, lol.
55. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 09:41 · Score: 0
  
  You're going to spend more in shipping costs than what the Raspberry Pi costs in total.
56. Re:hardware vs software by MisterMidi · 2012-12-27 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  Most, but not all Arduino's are 8 bit. The newest, the Due is 32 bit. You don't have to use the Arduino "IDE", you can also use Eclipse or NetBeans.
57. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 11:44 · Score: 0
  
  http://cubieboard.org/
  Everything on the SoC is broken out on this board, it's just a bit taller than the crummy Broadcom-sponsored raspberri Pi, no heatsink.
  Fuck Rockchip, they have horrible documentation. A black box is a black box, a black box with i2c and GPIO is at least tinkering with.
58. Re:hardware vs software by cgimusic · 2012-12-27 11:46 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Exactly. I bought the RPi for hardware projects. If all I wanted was a cheap PC I could have just got an old Intel machine off ebay.
59. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 12:49 · Score: 0
  
  But it puts Google entirely in the driver's seat, which is where they want to be.
  Do they? What with their self-driving cars it seems even that is not their ultimate goal.
60. Re:hardware vs software by NemosomeN · 2012-12-27 14:11 · Score: 2
  
  The RaspberryPi doesn't run anything by default, as it comes with no storage.
  
  --
  I hate grammar Nazi's.
61. Re:hardware vs software by evil_aaronm · 2012-12-27 15:00 · Score: 1
  
  I'm an old software guy that's finding his youth again in hardware. Sorry to ask what may be a "noob" question: how do you "condition the lines"? Is it just a matter of a voltage divider? Some sort of transistor arrangement? Or a specific driver IC? Thanks.
62. Re:hardware vs software by arth1 · 2012-12-27 15:55 · Score: 2
  
  You don't have to use the Arduino "IDE", you can also use Eclipse or NetBeans.
  In other words, you have a choice between java, java and java?
63. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 19:49 · Score: 0
  
  The real issue is the fan. If you underclock the biege boxes, MAYBE they would work.
64. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 19:57 · Score: 0
  
  Cheap, but fully capable with various techniques.
65. Re:hardware vs software by quenda · 2012-12-27 21:47 · Score: 1
  
  . One version is the cobbler kit http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-pi-cobbler-kit/overview for 7.95.
  You could make that with an old floppy-drive cable and a $1 IDC DIL header.
66. Re:hardware vs software by cbope · 2012-12-27 21:49 · Score: 2
  
  Only the early Pi's were built in China. The newest models are manufactured in a Sony factory in the UK, and I believe that very few if any are still manufactured in China. In fact, the Pi Foundation has stated numerous times that they wanted the Pi to be manufactured in the UK from the start, but at the time this was impossible when considering the necessary quality and fixed selling price with little margin. Thanks to the Sony deal they are now able to do this.
  I have a first revision Pi from China, and it works flawlessly. I even applied the highest stock overclock (1GHz) and it's totally stable without any additional cooling. Also, note that many of the user problems are due to sub-standard power supplies or using USB devices which draw too much power from the USB ports. Remember, the Pi does not come with one, so the user has to supply one or buy a third party power supply. The quality of these vary widely. I purchased one that was pre-tested with the Pi and offered directly by the UK distributor and like I mentioned, I've had zero problems.
67. Re:hardware vs software by rephlex · 2012-12-27 23:26 · Score: 1
  
  Only the early Pi's were built in China. The newest models are manufactured in a Sony factory in the UK, and I believe that very few if any are still manufactured in China.
  You are wrong. A very significant number are currently made in at least two factories in China. Look at what Raspberry Pi Foundation representatives jamesh and liz say in these threads: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=20388 and http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=23248 and http://raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=24057
  
  In fact, the Pi Foundation has stated numerous times that they wanted the Pi to be manufactured in the UK from the start, but at the time this was impossible when considering the necessary quality and fixed selling price with little margin. Thanks to the Sony deal they are now able to do this.
  Yes, but have they ever said they wanted to manufacture in the UK exclusively? They may have done, but I haven't heard this.
  
  I have a first revision Pi from China, and it works flawlessly. I even applied the highest stock overclock (1GHz) and it's totally stable without any additional cooling.
  But have you stress tested it for at least 24 hours by generating a load which is both CPU and GPU heavy? This is essential, you won''t know whether you have a stable configuration or not until you do this. I get the feeling that many people who think they have a "totally stable" Pi actually don't. Some crashes or other malfunctions don't occur until you have been properly stress testing for hours. Also, watch out for overclocking induced SD card corruption.
  
  Also, note that many of the user problems are due to sub-standard power supplies or using USB devices which draw too much power from the USB ports.
  Some of these "sub-standard" power supplies that have problems powering the Pi aren't actually sub-standard, i.e. they maintain the USB standard 5 volts ±5% (4.75 to 5.25 volts) when measured at both of the test points on the Pi's PCB while it is under full load. The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from this fact is that it's the design of the Raspberry Pi itself which is sub-standard, which shouldn't come as a surprise at this point.
  
  Remember, the Pi does not come with one, so the user has to supply one or buy a third party power supply. The quality of these vary widely. I purchased one that was pre-tested with the Pi and offered directly by the UK distributor and like I mentioned, I've had zero problems.
  Unfortunately even this hasn't guaranteed success. I know of multiple cases where power supplies bought as part of a Raspberry Pi bundle have been unable to properly power it.
68. Re:hardware vs software by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-28 00:30 · Score: 0
  
  A toy for toys sake, you did miss the point. Check the toys of the 15th century, automobiles. Check the books of the 18th century, computers.
69. Re:hardware vs software by grumpy_old_grandpa · 2012-12-28 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  shares virtually nothing with the common Linux environment encountered everywhere
  
  Here's my usual plug; quote by Richard Stallman:
  
  “Android is very different from the GNU/Linux operating system because it contains very little of GNU. Indeed, just about the only component in common between Android and GNU/Linux is Linux, the kernel. People who erroneously think “Linux” refers to the entire GNU/Linux combination get tied in knots by these facts, and make paradoxical statements such as “Android contains Linux, but it isn’t Linux”. If we avoid starting from the confusion, the situation is simple: Android contains Linux, but not GNU; thus, Android and GNU/Linux are mostly different.“
  
  Linux has always been, and will always be just the kernel. Although the kernel is at the core of an operating system, it is not the complete OS. It sounds what you are looking for is the rest of the OS, typically the GNU tools. We can all save a lot of text and sweat by using the those three letters when discussing OS specific topics.
  
  What you call it when talking to non-technical people does not matter that much. However, here on Slashdot everybody will understand "Android is not GNU/Linux".
70. Re:hardware vs software by MisterMidi · 2012-12-28 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  Well, yes... Of course you could use your favorite editor and build/upload from the command line, or set up your favorite IDE. After all, those IDEs are just fancy frontends for CLI binaries...
71. Re:hardware vs software by dindi · 2013-01-04 17:42 · Score: 1
  
  well, add the breakout board and the time to etch it and if you only want a few (3 in my case) it is a better use of my time to work for the 24 bucks, and spend the hours on coding the project. Of course your mileage might vary. If you just need the cable, then yes, it is a lot cheaper. BTW if you have a case with a slot (hole for the cable) you might want the cable, connector be just the perfect height/width .... I am happy with them :)
72. Re:hardware vs software by quenda · 2013-01-04 20:26 · Score: 1
  
  What break-out-board? All that PCB does, so far as I can see, is convert from 0.1" to 0.3" spacing between the two rows.
  A DIL header will skip the redundant 0.1" step, connecting the cable to the prototype board, more simply, just without the silkscreen labels.
73. Re:hardware vs software by dindi · 2013-01-05 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  I think you mis the point. With this breakout board (yes it is just a pcb with labels) you can easily pop this into a proto-board. That's it.
  If you wanted it in production, yes, you would probably use your method, or use an actual shield (shield as in "arduino shield" - an extension board that pops on (mates with the) top of the Raspberry PI with whatever components on.
  Keep in mind, that I use these as a hobby. E.g. I would prototype something on a protoboard with jumper wires and components, then grab the whole thing and put it on an empty board (what's the name, it is like a protoboard (white thing with 2 sides and +- rails), but a PCB with holes and you make traces with your soldering iron). I do not (want to ) etch my own PCBs. I rather throw more hardware at a problem and then concentrate on writing the arduino/java/whatever code.
  So e.g. I would grab this PCB, and permanently solder it into a project (maybe with just 4-5 connectors connected to something). Wasteful? Yes. Time saving? Yes. I just simply feel, that on the hobby level my time is better used writing code rather than making professional electronics projects.
  Hope this makes sense :)
  You know, it is the same: you can get an AVR 368 for 2 dollars (or so) then build a project. Or you can spend 20-25 for an arduino, get a shield, and focus on coding. Maybe you then do the AVR + components, or just pop the arduino + shield in a box and use it like that (that way you can also easily re-purpose a shield, arduino, or anything because it is modular (some things are connected by headers that mate other shields easily)...
  Just my opinion. When I have too much time on my hand I promise I start to etch my own boards :)
It sparked a revolution by cod3r_ · 2012-12-27 03:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

RPI served a purpose one way or the other. The faster these things get while staying at a similar price point just means there will be much cooler garage made gadgets and hacks to play with. Until apple buys all the patents up and sues everyone that is.
1. Re:It sparked a revolution by PlusFiveTroll · 2012-12-27 05:00 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Not sure why this is marked flamebait other then he named Apple, who is pretty good at patent trolling. Stick the name of any of the 100's of patent trolling companies that are out there these days and it is true. Computers are getting faster and cheaper and the biggest issue with making one of your own is fighting established trivial patents.
2. Re:It sparked a revolution by JonnyCalcutta · 2012-12-27 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, just replying to remove bad moderation
3. Re:It sparked a revolution by viperidaenz · 2012-12-27 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps because you can't be sued for patent infringement if you build something for yourself or simply tell others how to build it.
4. Re:It sparked a revolution by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 09:49 · Score: 0
  
  >can't be sued for patent infringement if you build something for yourself
  Yes, yes you can. Patents are not copyright.
Apples, oranges, raspberries by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 03:33 · Score: 0

Android is nice if I want to play angry birds, use facebook or twitter, or watch a movie on netflix. The "mini pc" is really just an entertainment device. It's like telling me that I can throw out my desktop computer and replace it with a Roku or a smart tv.
I'm more interested in learning things and keep my it skills fresh, so I would rather build a tiny little server with a Raspberry Pi (or stick a nice distro on it to use when I travel) than play with whatever the android device of the week is.
1. Re:Apples, oranges, raspberries by SilenceBE · 2012-12-27 03:41 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The A10 machines runs ubuntu/linux for a while you know... The accelerated x11 drivers suck, but rpi as a desktop isn't partically a party also.
Mini-Cluster by DigiShaman · 2012-12-27 03:34 · Score: 1

So, when can we cluster a bunch of these nodes together to form a tiny cloud platform? Possible yet?

--
Life is not for the lazy.
1. Re:Mini-Cluster by dmesg0 · 2012-12-27 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, you can run a Beowulf cluster of them!
2. Re:Mini-Cluster by TheGratefulNet · 2012-12-27 03:53 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  WHY?
  these aren't compute nodes. not even close. they're not fast on i/o either.
  they're embedded systems. why can't people GET that?
  there are a class of problems that need ip-connectivity (ethernet) and a small footprint and low power, low/no noise. this fits that bill. for code that is larger than controller-size (arduino mega, say) you'd use one of these. for much smaller tasks, the arduino controller class of chips is the better choice.
  embedded, people. not generic host. this is not some compute node. never will be and isn't meant for such things.
  
  --
  
  --
  "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
3. Re:Mini-Cluster by oodaloop · 2012-12-27 04:07 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  No! I have to imagine it first!
  
  --
  Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
4. Re:Mini-Cluster by james_van · 2012-12-27 04:10 · Score: 2
  
  why? because we can. not because its a good idea, or because there's some potential great end to it, but simply because we can. there is a certain thrill in the accomplishment that transcends any need for a good reason why. and sometimes, just sometimes, "because we can" is the best damn reason ever. other times its utterly f*cking stupid, YMMV.
5. Re:Mini-Cluster by capedgirardeau · 2012-12-27 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, it has been done with the Raspberry Pis.
  Beowulf clusters in the Raspberry Pi world are called "Brambles"
  Visit the RPi forums and search for that for real world feedback on how to do it.
  
  --
  Wax on, wax off baby!
6. Re:Mini-Cluster by TheGratefulNet · 2012-12-27 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  if you enjoy clustering really underpowered nodes, hey, whatever floats your integer....
  
  --
  
  --
  "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
7. Re:Mini-Cluster by viperidaenz · 2012-12-27 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  .... it's just not very good at floating point, so what ever.... integers your integer?
8. Re:Mini-Cluster by Nethead · 2012-12-27 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  I need the cluster for my 5" floppy RAID-5 array!
  
  --
  -- I have a private email server in my basement.
9. Re:Mini-Cluster by Half-pint+HAL · 2012-12-27 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  Why? For me it's a great way to pretend your rented application-on-a-server is more sophisticated than it is.
  Make an app that can run on a wee ARM unit, shove in one or two extras to increase the concurrent user limit and have them back themselves up to two Ethernet-enabled hard-drives. Include an internal mini-router with NAS.
  As the components are so cheap, shove a couple of spare units and devise a suitably pseudo-technical "fix" process that switches out a broken unit for the internal spare, making you look good in front of the client!
  
  --
  Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
10. Re:Mini-Cluster by LordLimecat · 2012-12-27 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  Because by the time you get 5 or 6 of them, they will be absolutely dominated by an equivalent cost AMD 8 core processor. Get 9 or 10 of them and watch it get slaughtered by an Intel i7. And all the while the single-chip solutions have no IP stack or clustering overhead.
11. Re:Mini-Cluster by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 10:46 · Score: 0
  
  Last september ? I've read it from a famous nerd news site
12. Re:Mini-Cluster by evil_aaronm · 2012-12-27 15:11 · Score: 1
  
  Why would I want to go with RaspPi over, say, mbed, or the Parallax Propeller, both of which do IO? Sure, having a Linux stack is cool, but that alone doesn't sell me.
Compare to RK3066 by dmesg0 · 2012-12-27 03:37 · Score: 1

I would rather compare to RK3066-based miniPCs. It's a dual-core platform with very good performance and has a number of mini-PCs based on it (MK808, UG808, iMITO etc). Android is a joy to use on this platform, and linux is under development.
The price is 50-60$ including shipping, which is not a lot more than 35$+shipping
1. Re:Compare to RK3066 by amorsen · 2012-12-27 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  The price is 50-60$ including shipping, which is not a lot more than 35$+shipping
  Except in the EU where you get raped by the shipping company having to handle import duties. The duties themselves are practically nothing, but the handling fees are nasty.
  
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2. Re:Compare to RK3066 by dmesg0 · 2012-12-27 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  Even if you ship by regular registered mail (e.g. by HK post) and not by private companies like DHL/Fedex/UPS?
3. Re:Compare to RK3066 by amorsen · 2012-12-27 06:26 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, there is no really practical way to avoid that handling fee. You can collude with a friend outside the EU and get lucky sometimes, but that gets expensive in delivery costs.
  
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  Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
4. Re:Compare to RK3066 by mcgrew · 2012-12-27 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  The price is 50-60$ including shipping, which is not a lot more than 35$+shipping
  
  Uh, I think your slide rule is bent. 36 is almost half of sixty and it should cost less than five bucks to ship either one. Almost twice as expensive is NOT "not much more".
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
5. Re:Compare to RK3066 by cez · 2012-12-27 08:08 · Score: 2
  
  Well, interestingly enough, I have baked 6 pi's for myself and friends and family, mostly making them into XBMC media centers, and I saw an MK808 mini pc stick for a descent price before christmas so grabbed one to compare...
  
  Just arrived in the mail today, I'm at my office now but intially I must say it is snappy.
  
  I downloaded and installed XBMC in less then 2 minutes and was streaming cheesy college humor in 3.
  
  That is to say after 2 random crashes of Jelly Bean (android 4.1) right off the bat... one blue screen that made me reminisce of how bad windows 95 was.
  
  2 more crashes with XBMC Beta RC2 since demo'ing it for the guys here who aren't up on the latest gadgets...so lets see that's 4 crashes in less then 15 minutes, no heavy use and I can't imagine its over heated as its dangling in the air off one of our 60 inch plasmas....I guess the jury is still out though, I'm done playing with it for now as I'm working, but maybe after initial configuration (haven't set locales yet or anything) and see if an update is available, maybe it will be more stable. If not, it's going back. I can understand a crash or two on XBMCs beta, but the OS it shipped with itself!? I'm almost tempted to send back now.
  
  For what its worth, it is very snappy and the streams I did watch were of good quality and wireless. I'll be headed to Thailand for 3 weeks and wanted to incorporate it into my travel pi setup for back-hauling photos too my home NAS (ZFS on Linux FTW, dual core green processor, 6 TB of Green Disks in a Zpools zfs raid for
  Definitely was worth the money for me to see if its feasible.
  
  --
  Walk with Music;
6. Re:Compare to RK3066 by cez · 2012-12-27 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Woops, slashdot ate my "less than" sign, for anyone who cares. The home NAS setup with ZFS on Linux is killer for under 500 bucks, probably cheaper now since I've built it. ZFS on Linux is the way to go for sure, most cost is the Disks, I'm using 2 green cavalier 3Tb drives (bought an extra just in case but I'm not running any strenuous i/o). Hudson green processor, mini-atx, SSD head, 8 Gb ram all in a HTPC (with hdmi out and XBMC as well) case.....yum.
  
  --
  Walk with Music;
7. Re:Compare to RK3066 by Koutarou · 2012-12-27 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  Rockchip is one of the most (if not the most) source-release-hostile of all the chinese SoC makers.
8. Re:Compare to RK3066 by dmesg0 · 2012-12-28 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  I usually buy stuff on Amazon. Please check what Raspberry Pi costs on Amazon and then compare to Amazon's MK808 price. I checked a few sites like Adafruit that offer Raspberry PI for $35+cheap shipping but they don't have it in stock
  Don't forget that you have to add a case (~$10) and wi-fi adapter if you need wireless connectivity, while in in mk808/iMito it is included. No ethernet though, but I didn't need it anyway.
9. Re:Compare to RK3066 by dmesg0 · 2012-12-28 12:00 · Score: 1
  
  https://github.com/omegamoon/rockchip-rk30xx-mk808
10. Re:Compare to RK3066 by dmesg0 · 2012-12-28 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  You probably have a bad unit (either hardware or software). My iMito MX1 is rock stable in android. XBMC is not stable yet, there are occasional FCs, but it closes gracefully without any trouble to the OS.
I prefer Pi by mandark1967 · 2012-12-27 03:37 · Score: 1

I admit I'm biased but I prefer the Pi over the Android dongles.
It just seems like there's more of a fun factor in making a Pi-based system than just plugging in a dongle-type system.
At least with the Pi I get to play with legos
My Pi system based on the 28 port Manhatten usb adapter
http://imageshack.us/g/1/9907766/

--
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1. Re:I prefer Pi by M1FCJ · 2012-12-27 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  Those pics made my day!
If it doesn't run XBMC... by Jonah+Hex · 2012-12-27 03:39 · Score: 1

Seriously, all I want is mini computers smaller than a hearing aid battery that can run XBMC with enough power to watch any format/compression from YouTube to BluRay. Is that too much to ask? Of course it's coming, and these systems are a great step towards that (yes I know XMBC runs on rPi), but for now I'm sticking to my hand built full size PC system running XBMC. - HEX

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1. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by Kadagan+AU · 2012-12-27 03:42 · Score: 2
  
  There are alpha (and maybe beta) versions of XBMC for Android as well. I'm not sure if they run on this MK802 II or not, but I'm sure that's coming.
  
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2. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by Kadagan+AU · 2012-12-27 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  And now with linkage!
  
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  This space for rent, inquire within.
3. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by mandark1967 · 2012-12-27 03:46 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  My Pi runs XBMC fine and plays my BluRay Rips without stutter with 5.1 Audio. I believe it's limited to 5.1 though...
  
  --
  Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
4. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by Albanach · 2012-12-27 03:51 · Score: 2
  
  And this seems to be the problem with the USB sticks. When I was searching it looked like you don't get hardware assisted playback with XBMC on them.
  So the article seems to say they're better for media centers, yet the primary media center software wouldn't work well? The reviewer doesn't seem to say they're actually running XBMC or similar on one of the devices. If someone is running it successfully, with workable HD playback over wifi, I'd love to hear about it.
  Most the reviews I saw also mentioned the wifi support was woeful, with frequent freezes. WiFi is nice, but only if it's reliable and a reliable network connection is essential for a media player.
  I was really keen to buy one of these cheap sticks, and the initial specs did look good. But as I read the reviews from folk who actually own them I saw a lot of disappointment. It looks like, for now at least, the price is too cheap to deliver a reliable product.
5. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by kroyd · 2012-12-27 03:57 · Score: 2
  
  XBMC runs very badly on Allwinner A10 and A13 CPUs found in the MK802, since the stock Android they come with don't support the regular hardware accelration in Android. (I imagine this has something to do with licensing and patents.)
  There has been some work in making XBMC work better, but that requires flashing your own ROM file, and that can be a really big pain with the extremely cheap but really unsupported systems.. (See http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/11/12/xbmc-for-linux-on-allwinner-a10-devices-it-works-sort-of/ for an example of how to make it work.)
  The devices usually come with a custom video player which works really well (the MALI GPU is quite powerfull), and I believe the youtube app has also been optimized. Hopefully the producers of the cheap Android sticks and tablets can work together with the XBMC team - the market must be enormous.
6. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by rikkards · 2012-12-27 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  Good to hear since coincidently I ordered one and Brown Santa should be dropping it off today (total cost with Shipping from Newark with case, power plug and SD Card was $58).
  Any tips?
7. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by mandark1967 · 2012-12-27 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  The Power Supply was the number one problem I read about at the forums when I received mine. Make sure you have a good one.
  -or-
  Find a good powered USB hub and use it to power the Pi. I've used the 7 port MacAlly hub to power my Pi with no problems, as well as the USB 3.0 ports on the Manhattan Mondo Hub. I've also powered my Pi from my Samsung HD LED LCD TV's USB Port without issue for several weeks with no apparent problems.
  If speed is absolutely essential, you may want to install your distro of choice to USB Stick
  NEVER rush to the latest version of XBMC for Pi. There are always issues to work through...
  When I first got mine I spent so much time tinkering with it I didn't really have time to "enjoy" it.
  Then I bought 2 more (512MB ones) and now I can tinker with the 256MB one while I enjoy using and showing off the 512MB ones.
  
  --
  Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
8. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by cynyr · 2012-12-27 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  Where are your storing the rips? also are they a stream dump of of the blue ray disk?
  I didn't see an interface that would take a streamdump of my copy of serenity. ~30-40Mbps for just the video, and then add 5.1 or 7.1 DTS on top of that and the 10/100 ethernet won't keep up, nor an SD card, or a USB wifi dongle... My hardwired gigabit will though.
  
  --
  All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
9. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by mandark1967 · 2012-12-27 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  I use Make MKV to rip the BluRay and store the file (25-35GB) either on a share on one of my Windows boxes, or on an SDXC Card on my Pi's hub itself. I have a pair of 128GB Lexar SDXC Cards, a pair of 64GB SDXC Cards, and a pair of 32GB MicroSDHC cards in usb adapters for my Pi.
  My Pi has 5 internal USB 2.0 ports and 9 external USB 2.0 ports so I can plug in quite a bit of storage in the form of SDXC Cards and USB Sticks.
  
  --
  Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
10. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 09:54 · Score: 0
  
  I just use a usb cellphone charger with > 5W (Nokia) to power the Pi. No problems so far.
11. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by Koutarou · 2012-12-27 14:09 · Score: 1
  
  You can hack xbmc to make it use MX Player (which does do proper hardware accelleration on rk3066 sticks) do the heavy lifting.
12. Re:If it doesn't run XBMC... by cynyr · 2012-12-28 10:39 · Score: 1
  
  I'm just surprised that an SD card and USB2 can keep up with blue-ray files. Shame it doesn't have an option for gigabit ethernet that isn't just an internal USB bridge.
  
  --
  All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by Richard_J_N · 2012-12-27 03:44 · Score: 5, Informative

We just deployed 3x Pi in a warehouse. I have to say, I'm really impressed with them. They are small, robust, and best of all, fanless (our last Mini-Itx died from dust-inhalation). System upgrades are easy - just swap over the SD card.
Just a couple of gotchas:
* Overclocking isn't just about heat (I added a heatsink and the CPU runs cool). The jump from 950MHz to 1Ghz is a very steep one (it suddenly bumps up all the other system clocks by a large amount) and this can make it unstable, corrupting the filesystem. 950 seems to be reliable.
* Power for USB (especially WiFi) is dodgy. Hotplugging a dongle will make the Pi reboot from brownout. It seems to be worse because the "5V" supplies aren't actually 5V. I tested several; surprisingly, the branded Nokia/HTC ones put out about 4.7V, whereas the unbranded ones are nearer 4.9. I suspect that in a USB supply that is really designed to charge a 3.7V LiPo cell, the more energy efficient ones may aim to come in slightly under 5V to reduce waste. Even with the newest model B rev 2, there is still one polyfuse on the input: I shorted this to gain another 10mV.
Anyway, I really want a Model C, perhaps with a 1.5GHz CPU, 2GB of RAM, 4 USB ports, embedded Wifi/bluetooth, and a better power supply.
1. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by TheGratefulNet · 2012-12-27 03:57 · Score: 1
  
  ladyada had some modified 5.1v psu's that she sold for the pi.
  good idea, too. losses in just the cable, alone, can be enough to drop the voltage low enough to cause problems. add a little up front and you fix that problem. really good idea.
  I've seen the usb hotplug reboots. I don't even try anymore. if I need to change usb config, I shut down (like old win95, sheesh) and then change usb connections. not sure if this was psu related or just 'bad usb stack' related.
  
  --
  
  --
  "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
2. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by KiloByte · 2012-12-27 03:59 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  So try this one. More than order of magnitude faster than RasPi (4*1.7Ghz overclockable to 2.0 A9 instead of 1*0.7Ghz OCable to 1.0, ancient ARM11). Obviously, $69 for the 1GB 4*1.4Ghz model or $89 for 2GB 4*1.7Ghz is more than RasPi's $35+accessories.
  
  --
  The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
3. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:13 · Score: 0
  
  Get the LadyAda 5.25v USB supply, and use a very short USB cable (1ft or less). If that's too short, use an AC extension on the USB supply. Lastly, power the wifi using a USB hub if you can. A good USB hub is $50 not $12, and some will even support hungry 1A and 2A devices so you know the power is good.
  Don't hot plug mouse and kb... Access remotely.
4. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:18 · Score: 0
  
  Minimum operating voltage of a device is 4.4 V in USB 2.0, and 4 V in USB 3.0 as written in the specs. If they didn't design the Pi to run off USB power with that in mind, they have no one to blame but themselves.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Powered_USB
5. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by viperidaenz · 2012-12-27 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  But then your $35 computer is getting closer to $100. May as well buy a $49 Cubieboard and get more IO, sata, flash, ram, speed or the $89 ODROID for much more power and smaller size but no IO headers.
6. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  It's because of the power supply. Plugging in USB devices is very noisy on the power lines, and generally USB devices need to precharge capacitors. Most USB ports have special power management chips that handle this all automatically and don't disrupt the host's power supply. The RPi is too severely restricted in cost to use one of these chips.
7. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by rephlex · 2012-12-27 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  Overclocking isn't just about heat (I added a heatsink and the CPU runs cool). The jump from 950MHz to 1Ghz is a very steep one (it suddenly bumps up all the other system clocks by a large amount) and this can make it unstable, corrupting the filesystem. 950 seems to be reliable.
  Having the CPU clocked at anything above 840 MHz and/or the GPU/core at anything above 275 MHz has resulted in massive filesystem corruption on the SD card for me, but RAM clocked at 600 MHz along with CPU at 840 MHz and GPU/core at 275 MHz seems fine. Everyone seems to be experiencing something different though.
8. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by queazocotal · 2012-12-27 14:40 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Then there is the elephant in the room.
  The Pi is deeply unexceptional, and rather boring hardware.
  Even the price isn't that special.
  The exceptional bit is that there are a sizeable slice of half a million of them.
  This means that even if 99% of them are sitting on a shelf, you have many thousands of people banging on the hardware, and bugs are at least likely to be found in many cases.
  With most of the alternative boards, you're going to be the only one of a relative few with them.
9. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by rephlex · 2012-12-27 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  With most of the alternative boards, you're going to be the only one of a relative few with them.
  The Ouya has the potential to significantly outsell the Raspberry Pi.
10. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by queazocotal · 2012-12-28 11:34 · Score: 1
  
  Which is not completely, though largely irrelevant to the question of using them as small PCs or embedded controllers. The Ouya has - on a quick glance - no onboard accessable peripheral interfaces.
11. Re:Pi in deployment (careful with max OC) by rephlex · 2012-12-28 13:47 · Score: 1
  
  Which is not completely, though largely irrelevant to the question of using them as small PCs or embedded controllers.
  I'm sure the Ouya will be able to be used as a small PC.
  
  Ouya has - on a quick glance - no onboard accessable peripheral interfaces.
  But what percentage of Raspberry Pi owners will actually use these interfaces? I'd say well under 1%. The vast majority simply don't care.
SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by DavidClarkeHR · 2012-12-27 03:46 · Score: 3, Interesting

You're right. The words "cheap" and "Chinese" are sort of red flags that maybe you won't find such nice USB headers and will have power distribution problems or noise on the audio ports or heat issues or bad liquid capacitors or any variety of cheap hardware problems.
While you're technically correct today - on the other hand, a $50 dual core computer on a stick isn't a bad value proposition. Would you really want to put a $200 usb-sized computer through the wash by accident? Or take it travelling and have it filled with sand?

Also, I'm old enough to remember when "made in japan" was synonymous with the same sorts of quality issues that "made in china" represents today. Now, half my tech items are over-priced and underpowered sony products.

--
- Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
1. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by ShieldW0lf · 2012-12-27 04:27 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You're right. The words "cheap" and "Chinese" are sort of red flags that maybe you won't find such nice USB headers and will have power distribution problems or noise on the audio ports or heat issues or bad liquid capacitors or any variety of cheap hardware problems.
  While you're technically correct today - on the other hand, a $50 dual core computer on a stick isn't a bad value proposition. Would you really want to put a $200 usb-sized computer through the wash by accident? Or take it travelling and have it filled with sand?
  Also, I'm old enough to remember when "made in japan" was synonymous with the same sorts of quality issues that "made in china" represents today. Now, half my tech items are over-priced and underpowered sony products.
  He's being sarcastic. Raspberry Pi had all the hardware problems he referred to.
  
  --
  -1 Uncomfortable Truth
2. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by mcgrew · 2012-12-27 05:02 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Now, half my tech items are over-priced and underpowered sony products.
  Sony? SONY??? You would buy computer equipment from a company with a history of rooting its paying customers' computers, removing features you already paid for, and storing sensitive customer information in a plain-text internet-facing database?
  There's no fool like an old fool, I guess.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
3. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:42 · Score: 0
  
  Also, I'm old enough to remember when "made in japan" was synonymous with the same sorts of quality issues that "made in china" represents today. Now, half my tech items are over-priced and underpowered sony products.
  Apparently you missed the tech booms in South Korea and Taiwan, now home to many quality companies. If you are still buying Sony products, you have been asleep for the past 20 years.
4. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:18 · Score: 0
  
  That's actually a problem I have with the Raspberry Pi.
  It's manufactured in SONYs factory in UK.
  I hear the factory is very nice, and it bears no part in SONYs other shady dealings, but it still bears the name SONY.
  Although, for the Pi, they just place the components, reflow the boards, test them and box them. It's not like SONY had a hand in the development or anything.
5. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:18 · Score: 0
  
  They also make other entertainment devices. Remember the walkman? Now get off my lawn.
6. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Alex+Belits · 2012-12-27 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  Sony still makes nice cameras (I prefer new Fujifilm still cameras, but they are just as Japanese and just as expensive).
  Of course, my laptop is Chinese Lenovo Thinkpad X220, and I have nothing negative to say about it.
  
  --
  Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
7. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 07:14 · Score: 0
  
  There's no fool like an willfully ignornant fool, I guess.
  Fixed that for you. Name 2 other large tech companies with the same size and scope of sony that havn't screwed over their users once or twice. I'm well aware of the problems that plague sony, but I much prefer them to dealing with the other big company that is frequently compared to sony: Apple.
8. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by DavidClarkeHR · 2012-12-27 07:16 · Score: 2
  
  Now, half my tech items are over-priced and underpowered sony products.
  Apple? APPLE??? You would buy computer equipment from a company with a history of installing bloatware on its paying customers' computers, removing features you already paid for, planned obsolescence, insane markups on generic hardware, arbitrary restrictions on what you can and can't install on your own hardware, encumbered DRM, refusal to support common standards and storing sensitive customer information in an easily bypassed security system?
  There's no fool like an old fool, I guess.
  ... oh wait. You meant SONY ...
  
  --
  - Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
9. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 08:17 · Score: 0
  
  But their video cameras are so very very nice... :/
10. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 09:10 · Score: 0
  
  What's the problem here? You finally coming to grips with the fact that even most Slashdotters don't really care about the whole techno-political side of things?
  
  For as much as we hear that bad press turns the unwashed masses to more "correct" solutions the fact of the matter is that few really care. A couple might understand the problem but the majority of the handful who actually pay attention only do it because they want to look "geek" among their friends. So today Apple is out and Samsung is in and as the tide changes these people will roll with it and embrace whoever the new good guy/bad guy is but they really don't understand the reasons why.
  
  It's like trying to get people to be more in tuned with enviromental concerns on a personal level. Few see the point and those that go along do it because it's the acceptable thing to do among their peers. The good fight was lost before it began.
  
  Wannabe-geeks are a fickle bunch. You'll spot them when you talk about anything above the Science Channel/G4 level and their eyes start to glaze over. I deal with a lot of them and I just pander to what they want to hear. Treating it like you're on a crusade wastes your time and makes you look like a goof. Most of these guys who pat themselves on the back for rooting their phone or putting some Linux distro on a 5 year old laptop are going to lose interest in that nonsense the minute they find a girlfriend or get a real job. Real geeks won't really need your guidance in the first place.
  
  Maybe you feel good about being modded up but really, no one actually cares.
11. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by slashmydots · 2012-12-27 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  I am? lol. I've never used, seen, or read reviews on the Pi. Is it bad? For $25 I wondered if maybe some parts were sub-par. I helped modify the design for a custom FPGA miner for a major manufacturer and my main contribution was swapping out the main capacitors with Japanese solid polymer ones because its' like $600 so why the hell not? But trying to duck under a ridiculous dollar amounts usually means you got your components out of Asia's bargain bin, lol.
  Well if they both have problems then screw it, get a real computer, lol. There actually are a couple decent android tablets for about $125.
12. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by slashmydots · 2012-12-27 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  They're like 3rd in laptop quality though. Their cameras and TVs are nice so hey, if they have a reputation for making quality gear, people go with them. I don't buy Apple products on pure principal because of their lovely policies and history but Sony's more of a joke and only a small section of their product "strategies" were a litigation-worthy level of evil.
13. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by LiENUS · 2012-12-27 13:58 · Score: 1
  
  The ultimate irony is that if you buy a raspberry pi it's either made by god knows who in china, or sony in the uk. The chinese ones have had quality issues suppoesly but given sony's track record i was thankful i got the chinese made ones.
14. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by evil_aaronm · 2012-12-27 14:54 · Score: 1
  
  Am I allowed to buy their camera gear? I promise I won't use the related software.
15. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 20:24 · Score: 0
  
  I hate a lot of big companies, but I have a special place in my heart for Sony.
  Screwing customers has become par for the course, but Sony distributed fucking ROOT KITS on music CDs that installed automatically and silently. That, to me, shows they're in a whole different level of disregard for customers.
16. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by WGFCrafty · 2012-12-27 22:22 · Score: 1
  
  Lol you are clairvoyant.
17. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by mcgrew · 2012-12-28 01:48 · Score: 1
  
  Nobody's stopping you, but don't complain when uploading pictures from it to your computer infects it with a trojan, don't complain when they remove features you paid for, and don't complain when your credit card and social security numbers are published in a plain-text internet-facing database.
  Photos are digital these days, the camera itself has a computer and built-in software. It ain't your grandpa's Kodak Brownie.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
18. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by mcgrew · 2012-12-28 01:58 · Score: 1
  
  I personally don't give a rat's ass when one corporation shits on another, so I have no quarrel with Apple (even though I own no Apples) or Microsoft (even though I think they write shitty software and OSes), but when a company shits on its paying customers like Sony has time and time again it deserves to die.
  XCP
  OtherOS
  Clear text internet facing database with customer info
  What are these stupid, evil people going to do to their customers next??
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
19. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by mcgrew · 2012-12-28 02:46 · Score: 1
  
  Sony manufactures them??? Well, I just changed my plans. I no longer want one. Only a fool buys from as customer-hostile a company as Sony. The Sony Pis probably have XCP pre-installed and other nastiness.
  I'd rather have the flaky Chinese ones, if at all. No Sony ANYTHING for me if I can help it. I want that company to die a horrible death.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
20. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by mcgrew · 2012-12-28 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I'm no fan of Apple and own none of their gear (except an old unused G3 someone gave me) but I absolutely HATE Sony. Apple, at least, hasn't deliberately installed malware on its paying customers' computers.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
21. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by thejynxed · 2012-12-28 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  That depends on your opinion of iOS and iTunes, does it not? :)
  
  --
  @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
22. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by LiENUS · 2012-12-28 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  Sony manufactures the ones made in the uk, idk who makes the ones made in china but they aren't sony. I have two 512mb models made in china and one 256mb model made in china.
23. Re:SOMETIMES cheap and chinese are bad words ... by mcgrew · 2012-12-29 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  Since I don't use either I don't have an opinion. As to iTunes, I get my media in physical format.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
Cubieboard for IO Breakout by jonsmirl · 2012-12-27 03:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

If you need IO breakout get a $49 Cubieboard, http://cubieboard.org/
Same ARM Cortex CPU/RAM/flash/HDMI as the Android sticks plus a 96 pin header including I2C, SPI, SATA, RGB/LVDS, CSI/TS, FM-IN, ADC, CVBS, VGA, SPDIF-OUT, R-TP..
1. Re:Cubieboard for IO Breakout by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  Except you can't. Unless you where in on the Indiegogo-campaign, which ended over a month ago.
  So, the big question is *if* and if so, *when* they will get a second batch and start shipping new orders.
2. Re:Cubieboard for IO Breakout by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 18:17 · Score: 0
  
  Or the wandboard.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 03:53 · Score: 0, Insightful

...but I'm willing to pay more for an ARM-based board made right here in the good ole' US of A (BeagleBone).
No virus-laden Chinese crap for me.
If by "old fashioned" you mean "racist", then yes - you're old fashioned.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by RogueWarrior65 · 2012-12-27 03:54 · Score: 1

I was just thinking that. How do we know they haven't modified the ARM design to include stuff like backdoor decryption or tracking capabilities?
Expensive and Chinese by tuppe666 · 2012-12-27 03:54 · Score: 0

You're right. The words "cheap" and "Chinese" are sort of red flags that maybe you won't find such nice USB headers and will have power distribution problems or noise on the audio ports or heat issues or bad liquid capacitors or any variety of cheap hardware problems.
This topic is about good value Android/GNU products not Apple products.
The RasPI is all about... by djsmiley · 2012-12-27 03:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

Connectivity.
The GPIO pins and everything else. It was never about a super low cost computing platform, its simply shown the manufacturers that such an item would sell like hotcakes, if produced for the low enough price.

--
- http://www.milkme.co.uk
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:05 · Score: 0

Poe's law.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:09 · Score: 1

AC does not understand the difference between racism and xenophobia....
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:10 · Score: 0

His adjective was describing a "thing", not people.
He said "Chinese crap". Is it racist to say french wine is better? how 'bout their cheese? Are spices better from the middle east? Am I racist because I prefer Greek cuisine over others? German Cars are better, right?
It doesn't exist yet. Stop spamming... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:14 · Score: 1

...all these crowd sourced projects. What you make them look like when you do this is a product hawked by billie mays hays...in fact its worse. Its vaporware. If they don't have a R&D budget and products on hand, don't refer to them as a 'solution'.
Which one can you actually purchase? by MeBadMagic · 2012-12-27 04:23 · Score: 0

I signed up to buy a Pi when I first heard about them. After several releases, I got an email that said they were in stock. I gave my CC# and placed an order. Got an email saying they were back ordered and I would be notified when sent. Never got sent. Got lots and lots of their advertising emails. Shit loads. Then another 'available' email. Tried to order again. Nada. Called customer service. The guy reminded me of Ocean Marketing. Like I was pestering them to take my money. WTF?
I hope maybe I can finally buy one of the other available options.
B-(

--
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
1. Re:Which one can you actually purchase? by capedgirardeau · 2012-12-27 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  Raspberry Pi supply problems are long over. You can get one overnight now if you want.
  I still wouldn't order one from RS though, their performance during the supply shortage was terrible, no more of my business for them ever.
  
  --
  Wax on, wax off baby!
2. Re:Which one can you actually purchase? by Microlith · 2012-12-27 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  The Pi is available, in fits and starts. I got mine many months ago. A co-worker just ordered one and got it in short order.
  Whereas many of these silly cheap boards from other sources I have yet to actually see, and I suspect I never will.
3. Re:Which one can you actually purchase? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  Just stop this already.
  I ordered two (more) Pis a month ago. I ordered on late thursday evening. Monday at lunch I had them in my hand.
  Also, there is a store just 1.5 hours drive away where I can buy them over the counter. And I live in Sweden.
  If you actually ordered them (and not just trolling), it sounds like you did not order from any of the two distributors that where available at the start when they first begun taking ordered, and instead ordered from some other (scam or otherwise) place. To the best of my knowledge, every single initial order with RS and Farnell was completed ages ago.
4. Re:Which one can you actually purchase? by M1FCJ · 2012-12-27 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  Farnell is a bit of a mess really. I ordered two USB power supplies, three Pi's, and four cases, got two Pi's and two cases and an unwanted SD card. Called them to ask about the missing bits, USB powers finally arrived last week but they sent me my missing Pi and some other unwanted stuff. They also advised that they'd be sending a UPS guy to pick up all unwanted stuff within 48h, the reception is still waiting for the "right" UPS guy, he never turned up asking for the extras.
  The call desk lot were really lovely,, the people I spoke over the phone were extremely helpful but it was obvious that the warehouse pickers were a bit low on IQ. What was in the package and on the dispatch printout were completely different things.
  All of this happened in mid-Nov to mid-Dec.
Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by LuxuryYacht · 2012-12-27 04:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

$49 Cubieboard Allwinner A10 + 512M/1GB DDR3 , 4Gb Nand Flash, 10/100M Ethernet, HDMI, 2 USB Host, 1 micro SD slot, 1 SATA, 1 ir, 96 GPIO pins ncluding I2C, SPI, RGB/LVDS, CSI/TS, FM-IN, ADC, CVBS, VGA, SPDIF-OUT, R-TP
http://cubieboard.org/
£40 Allwinner A10 + 1GB RAM, 4Gb NAND, Wifi: 802.11 b/g/n, 3.5mm Earphone Jack, 1x Mini Usb, 1x Hdmi Out, Micro Sd slot,
http://gooseberry.atspace.co.uk/
$65.00 Allwinner A10 1GB RAM, 4GB NAND, 3.5mm microphone jack, 3.3v TTL 4-pin header, 2 x USB A 2.0, 10/100 Ethernet, Realtek 802.11n WiFi, HDMI up to 1080p, 3.5mm composite AV, 3.5mm component Y/Pb/Pr, SDHC card slot
https://www.miniand.com/products/Hackberry%20A10%20Developer%20Board
$89 Freescale i.MX6 Duallite, 1 GB DDR3, Audio, Optical S/PDI, HDMI, Camera interface, SD Slot, Serial, Expanison header GPIO, USB, USB OTG, GB-LAN, WiFi 802.11n, Bluetooth
http://wandboard.org/
$89 Exynos4412 1.7Ghz ARM Cortex-A9 Quad Core, 10/100Mbps Ethernet, 2 x High speed USB2.0 Host,HDMI, SD Slot, Headphone jack
http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
1. Re:Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by leeac · 2012-12-27 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  I got an rpi, an mk802, and can't wait for the exynoses to come in. All pretty cool projects for slightly different markets. the mk802 is an easy choice for smartin' up my projector. the rpi is an easy choice for robotics tinkering and some home automation. while the exynos may serve a decent desktop thin client. ^ forgot about the 2gigs of ram woot!
2. Re:Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  People buy the Raspberry Pi for a lot of reasons. It's not (just) the price. Active development community, I/O, HDMI output, USB/Ethernet availability, etc.
  I make enough money to afford any combination of the above devices. The developer community is what's important to me. Knowing that even if the people making this device go under, knowing that the people using the device will be available for me to ask questions is huge.
  I bought 2 RPi model B units so far. One runs XBMC for the kids' TV. The other runs a NAS (with better performance than the one I got from Netgear, no less). Through questions asked through the forums, I am comfortable installing debian and managing a headless debian system.
  Do these other boards have vibrant developer community forums? If so, maybe they're worth another look for when I want to buy another headless system.
3. Re:Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  Thats nice and all, but what is the developing community behind these boards like?
  Or are they all just shipped with a pre installed Android and no support?
  The thing I like the most about the Raspberry Pi is that not only have they sold close to a million of them, there is a huge community and very active software development on it.
  There are boards with nicer hardware at relatively good prices, but that alone does not make a product great. If I got a problem, I know that if I search the forums I will probably find a solution to it, written by someone who actually has the exact same board. Or of not, then I could just ask myself and probably get an answer.
4. Re:Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by c0lo · 2012-12-27 11:48 · Score: 1
  
  Keep an eye on EOMA68 cards. Sometime in the future, the IO may be made extremely easy
  
  --
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5. Re:Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by rdnetto · 2012-12-27 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  $89 Exynos4412 1.7Ghz ARM Cortex-A9 Quad Core, 10/100Mbps Ethernet, 2 x High speed USB2.0 Host,HDMI, SD Slot, Headphone jack
  http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php
  
  The Exynos 4 is actually pretty recent tech. Once again I am tempted to design my own phone from scratch....
  
  --
  Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
6. Re:Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by ikaruga · 2012-12-27 18:13 · Score: 1
  
  By your logic then everybody who wants to do embedded programing should buy a freaking arduino.
  If you know the basics of programing and electronics and the product developer has the necessary documentations available(datasheets and sample programs) it really doesn't matter what you use. Linux is the same linux. Electronics are the same electronics(Analog, SPI, UART, HDMI, etc). The Raspberry is decent but it has problems and limitations. I actually very recently got an ODROID-X2 board and most my knowledge from previously using a Tegra2 Toradex board was completely transferable. And if I have a problem I can't solve by myself, just looking at the info from other boards, including the Raspberry, is enough.
7. Re:Other Low Cost ARM Boards to Consider ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 19:28 · Score: 0
  
  rpi for robotics is pretty underwhelming.
  The rpi has shit for GPIO. The GERT board is a retarded concept and a bandaid to the fact that they neglected to breakout a reasonable number of traces. Nothing more fun than using the soundcard DAC as a PWM (NOT).
  The processor is underpowered for object recognition which is the standard we really should really hold these boards to at this stage in the game. Example: the Samsung Galaxy SIII has a quadcore ready to spit out frame rates >20 doing OpenCV face recognition... on a virtualized operating system.
  The rpi is still backordered to shit making it's actual value way higher than the price tag in terms of lead time & disposablity. You can get used smartphones on ebay for less than the price of a raspberrypi+GERT board+webcam+USB Hub+GPS+IMU and you will have saved yourself tons of development time doing component integration. You also don't need a $20 HDMI cable and a $30 LCD monitor to work on them.
  Find one with an unlocked bootloader and you can ROOT/Jailbreak your way to victory with a $3 microUSB cable.
  I'm not even going to cheerlead a specific alternative simply because there are so many to choose from. Bottom line: on every criterion including ghz/$ the Raspberry Pi is mediocre. It's biggest claim to fame is hype. I got caught up in it myself until I started price checking against other SoC development boards and realized I couldn't drive servo motors with it.
  Also, I just talked to someone who renewed their Verizon Family Plan for another 2 years. Lolwut? Has anyone price shopped Verizon's 2Gb data/ $100 month against prepaid carriers recently? Verizon is a fucking rip off for anyone who doesn't live in the sticks to a tune of around $840/year. T-Mobile has a 5Gb data/ $30 month Walmart exclusive. I hope Verizon sales reps get paid well for doing the work of the devil. No one with a conscience can claim that $70/month is supportable by anything other than consumer ignorance and inability to weigh the initial radio capital outlay against the monthly pound-foolish tax.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:36 · Score: 0

Come on, you started thinking, keep going... imagine they have backdoor decryption on their chip, what are they going to do with it? Send their evil Chinese spies to your house and steal the strategically valuable data that you just happen to have stored on your tiny usb-computer?
It has to be said: "Beowulf Cluster!" by garyebickford · 2012-12-27 04:44 · Score: 1

I know, shades of the past and all that. I haven't seen a Beowulf comment for what seems like years.
But in this case it could actually be interesting! :)
So, take one big-a$$ USB hub, plug a whole bunch of the Android dongles into it. Use a Raspberry Pi as the USB router and another one or two Pi as I/O and scheduling processors. Run Beowulf.
Let me just say IANA HW guy... :P I may have some details missing or wrong... But if I get thing correctly, you can have 127 dongles on one controller. I don't know (didn't do any research) about whether the cited dongles can be used as controllers (hence using the Pi). You can have, on one small board, one Pi and 127 dongles (handle power to the dongles directly rather than through the controller's USB connection). Use ethernet between boards - this also helps with the problem of USB bandwidth. Stack boards as 'high' as might be interesting, useful and feasible.
Who knows? With enough of these processing boards combined, one might achieve the same performance as a high-end Intel chip! :P

--
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Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 04:53 · Score: 0

Well that whole facebook privacy stuff is right out the window if they are just sending it straight home anyway now isn't it?
...but could exist by tuppe666 · 2012-12-27 04:55 · Score: 1

...all these crowd sourced projects. What you make them look like when you do this is a product hawked by billie mays hays...in fact its worse. Its vaporware. If they don't have a R&D budget and products on hand, don't refer to them as a 'solution'.
I'ts moving off topic to discuss crowd funding, but lets be honest. Small hardware projects fit crowd funding like a glove, The cost accounting (patent problems aside) are built into the strategy, and you instantly get real feedback on whether there is a market for your project, better than any expensive research could do, with [potential] customers getting involved early with the product to help shape it. Its better than banks/venture capitalists who take cut, of your borrowing...and potential future business.
Directly related to your comment. It is perfectly acceptable to propose *any* crowd sourced product as a potential 'solution', as long as you are aware of the risks inherent in this.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Thiez · 2012-12-27 05:00 · Score: 1

Okay, that changes things. Not only has the device a secret backdoor decryption thingy (whatever that might be), the CPU will also send (easily detected) packets over your network, but nobody has detected these packets yet because of... reasons. And the Chinese are *so* interested in you that they would risk getting caught performing something as bizarre as this scheme of yours just to get a glimpse at your facebook friends.
This conspiracy theory of yours sounds rather far-fetched.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Charliemopps · 2012-12-27 05:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

There is no evidence that the Chinese have done this... although it is likely. There is, however, concrete proof that the US government is definitely doing it. In the Windows environment and Cisco equipment at least... probably a lot of others. All Chinas government can do to you is spy... the US government can arrest you, put you in jail, send you to secret prisons in other countries to be tortured or even put you to death.
I'll take my Chinese backdoor over your US government backdoor any day.
Android's multitasking sucks by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 05:21 · Score: 0

Androids lack of windowed multitasking really sucks. You can b e more productive on a Dos box running Desqview. Android's requirements are also becoming ridiculous.
The MK802 apparently has problems by sl4shd0rk · 2012-12-27 05:23 · Score: 1

At least from the Amazon reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Rikomagic-Generation-Android-Google-Player/dp/B0091UHMHO

* Not happy at all with the product and returning it back to HongKong is not worth the time and effort.
* The only form of support you cant turn to is the forum community, trust me they are frustrated.
* The only way to turn it on again is by unplugging the usb power cord and connect it again, or turn off/on the tv.
*Had to return it because it stopped working after two attempts. I think this is a nice concept but the hardware needs to mature a bit.

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1. Re:The MK802 apparently has problems by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  The MK802 probably does have its problems, but I'm not sure how much weight I would put on these Amazon reviews. One guy is unsatisfied because he can't stream HD video from netflix (which I would have never expected to work anyways). Another one says "Had to return it because it stopped working after two attempts. I think this is a nice concept but the hardware needs to mature a bit."
  Really, two attempts? It sounds as though he put in about 2 minutes of time before deciding it "stopped working"
2. Re:The MK802 apparently has problems by viperidaenz · 2012-12-27 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  Really, two attempts? It sounds as though he put in about 2 minutes of time before deciding it "stopped working"
  Or damaged it in one of the several "attempts"
3. Re:The MK802 apparently has problems by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 14:39 · Score: 0
  
  I'm using mine right now. For the power "issue", I use a powered USB hub with a switch on it convienently located on my desk, which also has a mouse and the keyboard I'm typing this on. Its an amazing thing having such a cheap and capable (and quiet) desktop computer (at least that is what I'm using this mk802iii for). I really recommend installing an aftermarket rom to get the full 1080p and overclocking ability though.
raspberry pi is to ARM SoCs as Arduino is to AVR by leeac · 2012-12-27 05:27 · Score: 1

raspberry pi isnt a cheap computer. it never was supposed to be, that was the goal of OLPC. Raspberry Pi is a development platform. From the ground up people can hack it at any level, get copious documentation at almost any level, versus the arguably cool, but completely closed allwinner based systems.
Is it for your TV or other Project? by na1led · 2012-12-27 05:29 · Score: 1

If you're looking for something to connect to a TV, the MK802 or MK808 is clearly the winner. If you're looking to make a toy, or run some lights, than Pi is the choice. I have the UG802 and it's very small/powerful for all that it does, but XBMC doesn't support HW decoding yet. Raspberry Pi looks cool, but the specs are lousy compared to the alternative. Another obvious choice that no-one mentioned are used Android Phones. I just upgraded my phone and have a Galaxy S phone no longer being used. Still looking for a good project to make use of it.

--
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Community Support, and Expansion Possibilities by hattig · 2012-12-27 05:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

There are a lot of reasons to pick a slower Raspberry Pi rather than one of the dozens of other cheap ARM boards and systems that have become available.
The primary one is the community that has built up around the device. This means the device is well supported.
Also the lack of case means you can access the headers - and there are headers to interface to.
And you can then add your own case, rather than put up with cheap-ass plastic.
I am sure that there will be a Mk2 RasPi within a year that will fix the CPU performance issue - it's a natural next step.
We also have to consider that the RasPi is now entirely assembled in the UK, and it's worth supporting local industry (or using it as an example to encourage local assembly of electronics in your own country).
1. Re:Community Support, and Expansion Possibilities by LiENUS · 2012-12-27 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  The cpu itself isn't that big a deal. It's the available bus bandwidth that really holds it up.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by RevDisk · 2012-12-27 05:48 · Score: 1

Wanting to buy locally is racist? Crud. Here I've been buying produce and food from local growers and farmers. The Amish around here have a good reputation when it comes to quality food. PRC food products, not so much. I wasn't aware I was being racist, considering quality was my sole concern and not genetic superiority or inferiority. I'm just not fond of melamine in my milk. On the other hand, I'd don't buy electronics from the Amish and do buy Made in PRC electronics.

I like buying locally when I can because I've had better success at contacting and communicating with the the folks that made the product. One theoretically could prefer to buy American, because there is less statistical chance of an ethnically Chinese person would be making or assembling the product. That would be oddly specifically racist, but indeed racist.
Render Farm? by koan · 2012-12-27 05:53 · Score: 1

USB hub with ~20 ports, 20 MK802 III's running Ubuntu and your preference of rendering software, now I know it isn't going to be powerful but at the price point, it's scalable, cheap, low power consumption.
Has anyone tried this? What do you think?

--
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
1. Re:Render Farm? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  A mac mini is about 600$.
  For the price of 15 raspberry pi, you get 500 times the power.
  I think the choice is clear.
  The raspberry pi is unable to compete in any kind of cluster or server application.
  It's not even able to run a web browser correctly.
  - A disappointed Pi user.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:28 · Score: 0

Call me old-fashioned, but I'm willing to pay more for a tube-based board made right here in the good ole' united Kingdom (SSEM)
No silicon-laden ARM crap for me.
Re:It doesn't exist yet. Stop spamming... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:33 · Score: 0

The thing you call "vaporware" has been shipping for weeks: http://www.indiegogo.com/cubieboard?c=comments
But don't let the facts get in the way of your rants.
Android on a "server" by dindi · 2012-12-27 06:42 · Score: 2

I once got an Android phone. I didn't do my research and I expected that I would have a normal Linux with root access, some decent package manager and that I could access most everything from the command line, and of course a graphical interface that has all the things on it. I imagined, that I could dial with a script, read sensors, or do IP over USB and other neat tricks easily just like I do with a linux box. I was so freaking wrong.
Now we are comparing a USB stick that has this limited crap on it to a full blown Debian server. I go with the Debian for the servers and back to my iPhone that at least has a neat developer tool (yeah, need to pay $100 a year to develop my own utils on the phone .... big deal, Xcode saves me enough time to justify that $100)....
I by the way run a little java app for automation on the PI. They have arduinos hanging on them doing most of the actual switching/sensing/human IO. It is a perfect architecture because I am allowed to use all the Unix/Linux services that OS has to offer without programming too much micro controllers but taking advantage of both words. I figured that an Arduino with ethernet shield is $70 while the PI is $35. An arduino + pi is $65. A little more juice is used but less coding of basic stuff, more time for logic and you still have a snappy micro controller one i2c or serial pin away.
i ordered from RS online by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:48 · Score: 0

waited 14? weeks then cancelled the order, RS told me it was already in transit and had been for three weeks. it arrived the very next day from a us supplier
Yay... it runs Skype! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 06:55 · Score: 0

That's what I need from the Pi but it does not do it. I need Skype and I am glad to see other players on the market that will run Skype.
Linux is a Kernel. Android is not *GNU*/Linux. by DrYak · 2012-12-27 07:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

What ever are you babbling on about? Android is a general purpose OS built on a Linux foundation that can run any code you want to run on it
This is one of the few cases where RMS's rambling about GNU and how distros should be called "GNU/Linux" actually makes sense.
LINUX is only a KERNEL.
As in the stuff that directly talks to your hardware and handles low-level stuff.
Above this kernel, you need a "userland" actual regular programs which are called.
And Android DOES NOT use the same GNU userland as most distributions.
Whereas regular distribution are "GNU/Linux" (i.e.: runs the Linux kernel and a bunch of userland program, lots from the GNU project [for low-level stuff like C library, shell, etc.], but quite a lots of other stuff [KDE, Firefox, LibreOffice.org]) and are fully POSIX compatible and can run almost any general purpose UNIX software out of the box (as long it was compiled for it), Android is Linux kernel + a very special userland made by Google (among which the most well known part is the Dalvik java-like environment. Even the C library is Google's own Bionic instead of the usual glibc, ulibc and other forks).
Out-of-the box, Android doesn't run most Unix software because several parts are missing.
(This is different from other mobile OS: Maemo/Meego/whatever-the-nom-du-jour-is, OpenMoko's SHR, Palm/HP WebOS, etc. all run a normal GNU/Linux stack, although in WebOS case, it uses a non standard gui instead of X.
Even router provide a unix like environment, only using more light-wieght embed-friendly components like Busyboy and ulibc or eglibc and without a graphic interface at all)
Again, the usual user-land, the "GNU/" part of "GNU/Linux" is missing.

(I run Debian in a chroot environment on my Android phone as just one example).
That's what your compensating by running a Debian chroot. You provide the missing userland.
You share the same kernel (Linux), but run a different set of userland programs on it. You provied a C library (I think Debian moved to eglibc ?) a shell, and hundreds of other part that make the userland environment. You provide back the "GNU/" part of "GNU/Linux".
And now, thanks to all the pieces provided by your chroot, you can run any Unix code.
Now, indeed, this is possible because Android uses the Linux kernel as a foundation, and its opensource make it possible to port a Debian userland to Android and run it along the normal system. So in a way you're right.
But I insist, Android is unlike any other GNU/Linux distribution around. (And until recently, it needed some special kernel functions that weren't in stock kernels).
This is unlike other Linux based mobile device, which already are based mostly on these pieces. You don't need to provide them. You can already run most of what you want on Maemo/Meego, OpenMoko, webOS based device (except for the part of webOS lacking X out of the box).
Out of the box, an Android machine is designed to run the default apps packaged with it and to fetch special android-apps from a special app market.
Now, thank to the general openness of the platform, it is possible to repurpose it, but out of the box, this is not your regular Unix-like OS. You need to install a chroot, or at least a lot of userland components.
And that's what the parent was referring to:
- Android stick : runs android, designed to run a few android apps (but you can do more if you want).
- RPi : runs a GNU/Linux disto, designed to pretty much do anything you want out of the box.

but that in no way makes the Android device limited to only certain things.
Android makes the device limited to run only Android apps out-of-the-box, unless you go out of the way and install the missing userland bit to turn it into a full Unix-like box.
But thanks to the open nature of the Linux kernel, this is actually possible. (It's not a locked down device that needs to be hacked)
Android and the classic Unix-like userland (of debian) are completely orthogonal one to another.

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1. Re:Linux is a Kernel. Android is not *GNU*/Linux. by LordLimecat · 2012-12-27 09:00 · Score: 2
  
  Your points arent generally wrong, but I disagree with your opinions, like that Android isnt "Unix-like". You can make kiosk or appliance style *nix distros, and they are in fact common: OpenFiler, pfSense, a LOT of NAS boxes out there, etc. Some of them it is easy to get to the "unix" part of them (pfsense, etc); others it is very difficult (many NAS boxes). That doesnt make them "fake NASes", any more than a Windows box set to hide explorer and launch a locked down firefox is "fake Windows".
  Android was designed to run on a phone, and as such it has certain design constraints and goals. One of the goals is not to have a terminal window directly accessible to 99% of its userbase; another is to require no maintenance despite allowing people to install whatever programs they want. On Android, you can install packages all day long, then uninstall all of them, and be assured that your phone wont have any problems. Try that on a normal GNU/Linux. For instance, go into Ubuntu and do an 'apt-get remove --purge evolution', and then try to get your system back to where it was with a functioning Gnome (dunno if this still works, but it definitely caused problems in 10.04 and earlier).
  The "out-of-the-box" limitations are a reflection of its intent as an appliance OS, not of some anti-FOSS, anti-*nix, or anti-GNU philosophy from Google.
2. Re:Linux is a Kernel. Android is not *GNU*/Linux. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 10:36 · Score: 0
  
  Out-of-the box, Android doesn't run most Unix software because several parts are missing.
  Android and the classic Unix-like userland (of debian) are completely orthogonal one to another.
  Wow, in that entire rant you don't mention the licenses that the non-GNU portions of Android use-- namely the Apache and BSD open source licenses, which arguably offer MORE freedom than GNU, depending on what side of the "freedom" fence you happen to be on, philosophically speaking.
  So if your point is that Android is somehow not open sourced or offers less "freedom" as a result of not using GNU for everything, well I have to disagree. If that wasn't your point, then what was?
  You also neglect to mention that Android does in fact incorporate a ton of non-kernel GNU-licensed software, from ALSA to dbus to sh to bluez. When Google develops its own userspace software, it tends to use the Apache license, mostly to make things more palatable for the telecom industry to adopt since they can keep their modifications closed. You don't like it? Don't use it...
  I guess I don't see what the point is of your revelation that Android userspace and the traditional Unix userspace are different.. Yeah, Android isn't exactly UNIX-compliant "GNU/Linux", which is why it has its own name. So?
3. Re:Linux is a Kernel. Android is not *GNU*/Linux. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 12:05 · Score: 0
  
  The fuck are you babbling about licenses all of sudden when GP is talking about technical differences?
4. Re:Linux is a Kernel. Android is not *GNU*/Linux. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 12:53 · Score: 0
  
  Because no fucking shit Android/Linux and GNU/Linux have different user spaces. They're different OSes that share a common kernel. My point is that the technical difference is due to different license requirements from Google. The license restrictions w/GNU userland is very much why so many parts of Android were rewritten and continue to be fully re-implemented under an Apache license, with every iteration of Android requiring less and less GPL licensed userspace. Though, as I pointed out, there are plenty of GPL/GNU components still being used.
  The use/lack of use of GNU userspace is primarily a licensing, not a technical driven issue, although there are a lot of technical improvements that have been made along the way by not worrying so much about POSIX compliance.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by viperidaenz · 2012-12-27 07:30 · Score: 3, Informative

The raspberry pi is now made in the UK. Only the first batch was made in China.
different uses by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 07:49 · Score: 0

I have
- a TPLINK 703N with openwrt (~17 Euro)
- a Rpi (model B, 256 MB RAM) (~35 Euro)
- a MK802 II (~30 Euro)
i Hvae to say I use them all, for different purposes
. 703N: less than 100 mA, perfect for always on torrent macine
. mk02: very nice as a meda device, attached to the tv. having android is better for this
. Rpi: all kinds of tests using the gpio
I Hardly think one serves all the purposes
Wrong. by viperidaenz · 2012-12-27 07:49 · Score: 1

It is the primary goal of the RaspberryPi.

The idea behind a tiny and cheap computer for kids....
http://www.raspberrypi.org/about
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by gmack · 2012-12-27 07:55 · Score: 1

For that price you can go Korean with a 1.7 ghz Quad core from Hardkernel.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Half-pint+HAL · 2012-12-27 08:30 · Score: 1

His association of "Chinese" with "viruses" was rather narrow-minded and not empirically supported.

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It does exist. I have one by Alphadecay27 · 2012-12-27 08:32 · Score: 1

Took about a month to ship. They had a protype ready when they asked for funding so there was no need for R&D at that point. I also have a Raspberry Pi. I'm pretty happy with both of them, they each have their niche. Takes a bit of hacking/tweaking to get them working the way you like but that's why I bought them. I don't know how products like these would exist without crowd funding so I am willing to do the research and take a risk when I find one that appeals to me.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 08:44 · Score: 0

How do we know they haven't modified the ARM design to include stuff like backdoor decryption or tracking capabilities?
Because to make use of it, they would have to transmit the compromised info from your house to China. Your secret MegaWatt radio station will chave incredible battery drain, unless they also somehow shipped the unit with a multi-megawatt-hour battery included on the SoC. And if they can do that then they deserve to learn your homemade+proprietary kegorator's lagering temperature.
But that aside (maybe your device will be allowed to talk on internet to 'em) you don't know. That makes it slightly safer than US manufactured devices where they're more-than-average likely to spy on you, and by parties who are more interested in you.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by LordLimecat · 2012-12-27 09:24 · Score: 1

A post like yours would be greatly enhanced by a link or two.
IT Skills by demon+driver · 2012-12-27 10:39 · Score: 1

Hmm.... I chose an Android device for a mobile phone because of its potential in letting me learn things and improve my IT skills, beside other reasons. And I think it's quite amazing what you can do on Android if you only know some Java. I'd imagine there won't be much you couldn't do with that Cheap Android Dongle. Although, of course, you'd do it a different way than you might do it with a RPI running Linux.
Portable Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 12:06 · Score: 0

You can boot a mildly old version of Ubuntu off a microSD card on many of these cheap android dongles, but because Ubuntu happens to be so demanding it operates fairly slow if the device is clocked lower than 1.2gHz, But portable/pocket able Ubuntu is amazing in my mind, also it would be very easy to run Arch Linux (what I run at home) on many of these devices, and it would most definitely operate very smoothly.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by rephlex · 2012-12-27 12:15 · Score: 2

This isn't true. The Raspberry Pi is currently being manufactured Sony's UK factory in Pencoed, Wales AND in China.
It appears that the number of Raspberry Pi's shipped faulty appears to have significantly increased in the last month or so with one report on the forums from someone who claims that they recently received three faulty Pi's out of ten and another from a person who claims both of theirs are faulty. These reports have been described by Raspberry Pi Foundation representative who posts on their forums as jamesh as "statistically insignificant". This is the same person who incorrectly claimed in August that the Raspberry Pi was still in beta.
There have also been recent reports of poor packaging with the damaged PCB unsecured and rattling around inside, solder bridges between header pins causing constant rebooting as well as multiple instances where PCB holes have been inconsistently filled with solder. See here: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22473 and http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=24571
Re:raspberry pi is to ARM SoCs as Arduino is to AV by rephlex · 2012-12-27 12:59 · Score: 1

How is the Broadcom BCM2835 SoC that the Raspberry Pi uses more open than the Allwinner A1x SoCs?
Re:It doesn't exist yet. Stop spamming... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 15:56 · Score: 0

I've taken delivery of a CubieBoard and it's a kick ass piece of hardware. They delivered the product AHEAD of schedule, unlike the foundation's endless douche-baggery. I had mine in my hot little hands for several weeks and am already running Debian off a BerryBoot bootloader. You may think crowd-source is a scam, but some people see niche products as a prospect worth the risk of investing in. If you're too cynical to appreciate that, it probably just reflects on your own lack of integrity resulting in an inability to trust others.
Caveat Emptor, but if you can't afford to roll the dice with small sums of money it's probably too boutique for your sensibilities. FIY, this practice has long precedence in group-buys on message boards. Small groups of people frequently do not represent a sufficient market for a principle investigator to risk staking an initial investment in R&D. Pre-Orders are flaky. Crowd-sourcing fills this space nicely and allows products that otherwise would have died in the cradle to see the light of day.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by arth1 · 2012-12-27 16:19 · Score: 1

His association of "Chinese" with "viruses" was rather narrow-minded and not empirically supported.
Depends on what kind of viruses. Influenza viruses seem to break out in the far east in general and China in particular far more than other places.
This is probably linked to population density, urban fowlkeeping, as well as unhygienic traditional practices (like double-dipping from shared dishes and using the same knives and cutting boards for poultry and vegetables).
For computer viruses, well, there aren't a lot of them anymore. Too few low-level programmers in the new generations, I guess.
But unlike trojans, computer viruses do tend to spread more where people are likely to use pirated copies of operating systems which they may not easily get security updates for. China, Brazil and India tend to top the statistics for viruses, while the US, Netherlands and Russia tops it for trojans.
So yes, the GP does have a point. That doesn't mean he's not a ***ist, but it also doesn't mean he is.
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by mirix · 2012-12-27 16:28 · Score: 1

My brand new revision 2 board, from Newark - is made in China.
Maybe only boards sold in the UK are made there or some such..?

--
Sent from my PDP-11
Re:raspberry pi is to ARM SoCs as Arduino is to AV by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 18:47 · Score: 0

The RaspberryPi made an open source IDE for ARM development that greatly reduced the barriers to entry for developing embedded code using fast 32 bit processors, then paid themselves for the effort by releasing and selling a development board that was both plug and play compatible with the IDE and idiot-proof enough to endure basic torture tests such as 5V+ inputs on the ADC and Digital IO, reversed polarity on the power supply, and shunting power outputs to ground?
Oh wait, no they didn't do any of that. They made a compact & low cost ARM SBC which trumpeted an RCA video output + HDMI support as its main selling point. They claimed the ability to plug their PCB keychain in to their parents TV would turn an entire generation of nose-picking children in to brilliant computer scientists and electrical engineers through the sheer power of curiosity.
Trouble is, everybody looked around and realized that they had taken the last of their analog displays which accepted RCA inputs to the dump years ago. Then they stuck a microSD card in the slot and booted up Debian/Ubuntu/Sugar and realized that Linux is hard, and doesn't have any cool games like Call Of Duty Modern Warfare.
The RaspberryPi foundation skipped the whole part about making ARM/Linux development accessible to children. They didn't write a sick new IDE, and they hoped that the OLPC foundation would pick up their slack with Sugar or something organic involving hackers would happen. Here's the thing: "not your personal army".
Arduino sold like hotcakes because it was the board that was proven to work with the least amount of bullshit with an intuitive IDE with well commented example code included. They got away with charging $40 for an $6 MCU because nobody wants to put together a Digikey order from a BoM and solder their own programmer together from components. Nobody wants MicroChip's proprietary JTAG bullshit or Code Composer Studio cripleware.
The Raspberry Pi foundation thought they were the next Arduino. All they managed to build was a BASIC Stamp with a faster clock-rate. They are to ARM SoC dev boards what the OLPC was to Netbooks. The Dreamcast was to PS2.
They blew their load on the wrong SoC and ignored the IDE. They're already irrelevant.
USB problems continue on RasPi by Anonymous Coward · 2012-12-27 23:59 · Score: 0

Recent revisions of the RasPi board have improved the power problems substantially. Unfortunately there are some 300 thousand boards of earlier revisions out there that won't go away, and eBay will keep recirculating them. Buyer beware.
Power problems aren't the only kind on the RasPi though. Probably the biggest problem is the broken USB handling. The USB controller on that particular Broadcom SoC device has severe limitations and makes invalid assumptions about the Linux kernel, and that cannot be fixed because it's hardwired in the device silicon. As a result, even the latest board revisions have major USB problems that make the board unusable for certain applications.
1. Re:USB problems continue on RasPi by rephlex · 2012-12-28 01:03 · Score: 1
  
  Recent revisions of the RasPi board have improved the power problems substantially.
  Not really. They've just fixed the idiotic voltage regulator error with the LAN9512 chip (see http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14489) and removed the USB polyfuses. The instability problems the Pi has with power supplies which output a low but still within USB specification voltage, such as 4.8 volts, are still present.
  The USB revision means that certain devices can now be successfully powered directly from the USB ports on the Pi, whereas before they would malfunction if this was attempted. However, an unfortunate side effect of this change is that merely hotplugging a USB device into a revised Pi can be enough to reset or crash it.
  
  Power problems aren't the only kind on the RasPi though. Probably the biggest problem is the broken USB handling. The USB controller on that particular Broadcom SoC device has severe limitations and makes invalid assumptions about the Linux kernel, and that cannot be fixed because it's hardwired in the device silicon. As a result, even the latest board revisions have major USB problems that make the board unusable for certain applications.
  Spot on. The Raspberry Pi Foundation still believe this problem can be fixed though, judging from the comment Foundation representative jamesh made in this thread: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=23053. I think he's kidding himself, especially when it's considered that the USB issues jamesh apparently considers solved have just been worked around, not truly fixed.
Raspberry vs Cheap Android Dongle by lsatenstein · 2012-12-28 10:23 · Score: 1

With these small devices becoming ubiquitous, I got to thinking that one of them could eventually replace the bios on a typical mother board.
Does anyone know what processor is used on the motherboard to start the x86 one from Intel or AMD? Is it too complicated to make a mother board that accepts one of the cheaper devices? We could do our own UEFI and avoid the headaches that bios writers are facing.

--
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Historically no. by DrYak · 2012-12-28 16:56 · Score: 1

Because no fucking shit Android/Linux and GNU/Linux have different user spaces. They're different OSes that share a common kernel.
That's what I've said, too.

My point is that the technical difference is due to different license requirements from Google. The license restrictions w/GNU userland is very much why so many parts of Android were rewritten and continue to be fully re-implemented under an Apache license, with every iteration of Android requiring less and less GPL licensed userspace.
Yes and no.
Your comment is correct regarding things like the C library. Currently Android uses google's own Bionic. Previously it had used components coming from the GNU ecosystem. Among the reason why google developed it, the license is indeed one of them: Bionic come from the BSD userland and is BSD licensed, thus giving more freedom to 3rd party to hack it without needing to publish their modifications. (But thus restricting the freedom to hack of the end users themselves). On the other hand, the predecessor inside android, glibc had several short comings too. (eglibc, which tries to adress several of these shortcomings, notably by being easier to port on embed architecture, and being easier to build a lightweight version by disabling features, only started to gain acceptance later).
But for the rest, that isn't exactly the case.
Android started being developed almost 10 years ago (2003).
As a reference, iOS got released officially in 2007. And even if it was the same usual BSD-derivative architecture under the hood (with only a different user interface and application layer slapped on it), the user-facing elements were designed with non-multi-tasking in mind.
As another reference, in the Palm/Handspring world, from 2002 until 2005, Treo were running PalmOS (a OS that I personally appreciate a lot, having own palm IIIc and T3) which is not even multi-tasking (Palm OS 5 did introduce some very limited forms of multi-tasking). Windows Mobile (as shitty as it is, at least is truely multitasking) was only introduced in 2006.
Back then, smartphones weren't that much popular yet. Most of the phone were simply feature phones. Most of the phones didn't have that much processing power anyway.
Putting a whole unix platform on a phone was considered insane: its a huge overkill of resource.
If you're doing a firmware for a phone, most likely you're making a big monolithic app. You're not trying to cram a whole workstation OS inside a phone (Nokia's Maemo/Meego got such a huge popularity among geeks when it was released in 2005 exactly because of that: Unlike everyone else back then, Nokia successfully managed to cram a whole Linux distribution with the whole stack into a pocket device. And this device still wasn't mainstream/typical even when it was released).
If a phone happened to "run Linux", it would most likely be only the kernel (to leverage its hackability and to use the capabilities of the kernel itself: resource management, filesystem access, etc.) and over it, instead of a whole linux workstation stack, you just found a big monolith. (Very often Java was popular in this bundle). Motorola's RAZR2 is a nice example of that. It uses a Linux kernel. It was released later (2007) so it contains much more pieces of actual Linux (they could afford more) but the biggest part is still a blob.
So back in 2003, when developer started working on Android, they did what everyone found logical in this field:
- They took the Linux kernel because its nice, customisable and contains lots of well tested parts (ressource management, file system, etc.)
- They made a big blob to run on it.
- Java being popular a lot, they created the java-like dalvik.
They didn't as much replace one by one the various part of the usual linux userland with inhouse stuff because of the license, as much as they simply refused to start using them in the first place, because back in 2003 cramming an actual linux stack inside a feature phon

--
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Entirely different beast. by DrYak · 2012-12-28 17:37 · Score: 1

I disagree with your opinions, like that Android isnt "Unix-like". You can make kiosk or appliance style *nix distros, and they are in fact common: OpenFiler, pfSense, a LOT of NAS boxes out there, etc. Some of them it is easy to get to the "unix" part of them (pfsense, etc); others it is very difficult (many NAS boxes). That doesnt make them "fake NASes", any more than a Windows box set to hide explorer and launch a locked down firefox is "fake Windows".
If we take your example of "fake windows":
- most Linux based embed systems with a Unix-like userland, would be the equivalent of taking Windows "XPe" keeping it almost as-is, disabling only the shell, and using firefox as a shell instead. Or taking a Windows Server. and installing it in "headless" mode, not running any graphical interface, but running in command-line mode.
It doesn't visually look at all like a regular Windows, but under the hood most of the pieces are here. It still uses Aero and/or DirectX for graphics and sound, CMD is there if you need it, etc.
99% of the files are the same, even if visually there's a lot of difference.
- Android, and the firmware of a few NASes and Media Players, would be the equivalent of only using a small subset of the ".SYS" files of Windows (the various peace of the kernel), only those for accessing hardware, filesystems, task switching, etc. Absolutely everything else is replaced by a huge custom .EXE (and its attached .DLLs) no trace of anything from the original Windows beyond the kernel (these NASes and media player usually take over from the INIT process it self and provide a huge custom monolithic stuff from this point onward. To keep the metaphor, this .EXE+few .DLL is entirely written in .NET because C# is popular (Android use massively Java because its popular). But instead of compiled to bytecode running on the classical .NET DLR virtual machine it runs uses Perl6's ParrotVM :-P (Android doesn't use the JVM, it use its own Dalvik).
Only a couple of .SYS files inside "system32" are shared is a regular Windows. Most of the rest is taken care of in this big weird .NET .EXE. It doesn't even have support for Win32 api.

Android was designed to run on a phone, and as such it has certain design constraints and goals.
I agree. But back in 2003 when the development started, the main constraints for anybody in this field was: there's no way to cram a full Unix environment in a mere phone, its a crazy idae and an awful waste of resource, no current phone hardware could sustain this. Let's instead implement everything we need in a light-weight userland that we're writing from scratch. (And lets use something similar to Java for it, because it's popular and enterprisy)

One of the goals is not to have a terminal window directly accessible to 99% of its userbase;
Not only is the terminal window missing (because as you say 99% of the users don't give a shit about it). But absolutely everything under the hood is missing.

not of some anti-FOSS, anti-*nix, or anti-GNU philosophy from Google.
Unlike other people rambling in this thread, I never accused Google of being anti-FOSS.
I just responded to the discussion: the parent was astonished that Android was considered limited by some. His argument being: you can run anything you want and this is all thank to Android "being Linux".
My counter argument are: unlike any other regular Linux distribution, Android doesn't share much in common beyond the kernel. What is usually done by the regular Unix-like stack in any random other distro, is handled by parts in the the Java-like userland.
You can run anything you want, but for most stuff you'll need to put back that regular Linux stack for this to function.

--
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Re:Call me old-fashioned... by Charliemopps · 2012-12-31 07:00 · Score: 1

A question like yours could be easily answered by a visit to Google.
How about strait from Ciscos documentation?
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_2sb/feature/guide/ht_ssi.html
Microsoft Denys they put a backdoor into Windows, but the NSA worked directly with them on development of every OS since XP:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141105/NSA_helped_with_Windows_7_development
The NSA doesn't generally help private companies with their products, and Microsoft doesn't generally take advice from their customers on their design. I doubt that whatever the NSA was really doing to help with the product was anything we'd consider good.