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Texas State Rep. Files 2 Bills To Ban RFID In Schools

Posted by samzenpus on from the no-track-zone dept.

BeatTheChip writes "The day Andrea Hernandez lost her federal case against expulsion for refusing a school mandated RFID badge, Rep. Lois Kolkhorst moved to file two bills on the first day of the Texas Legislative session. Kolkhorst has sponsored several anti-RFID bills for schools over the years. This year they are HB 101 and HB 102."

39 of 297 comments (clear)

  1. Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by sam_vilain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I mean, it's not like the kids have to be implanted with the badges. You can easily leave the badge somewhere if you want to go somewhere naughty. Is there something I've missed?

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    1. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because some people have a sense of dignity and object to being treated like cattle.

    2. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Is there something I've missed?

      Yup. The accounting scheme by which schools are funded. It's not based on the number of students attending a school, but the number of seat hours. RFID offers a better way of tracking students while they're on campus, which in turn increases the number of seat hours while holding down the costs of keeping detailed attendance records. It actually has absolutely nothing to do with tracking students. You know those little ID batches you have to wear to work (office workers everywhere know this)? Same technology. Adults do it all the time, and nobody complains about how MegaCorp Inc is watching where they're going once they're off work because they're carrying an RFID card. Your credit card probably has an RFID too. Your cell phone may even have one. The crap you buy at the superstore... yup, there too.

      But stick it on a kid and suddenly everyone goes full retard. As if.

      --
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    3. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      Follow the funding. A blob of plastic over a chip, been sold to one area today. Then the county, state. Once a few big states have it- nation wide.
      This will ensure a generation thinks they are tracked everyday.
      Recall what the 'free' laptops with webcams did in US schools?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District ie the ... "seeing him eating the candy in a webcam image"

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Recall what the 'free' laptops with webcams did in US schools?

      Just wait until this guy finds out what teenagers do with the ones their parents paid for. In other news, sometimes people drink and drive. The solution is therefore to ban cars. Sometimes people shoot other people. Solution? Ban guns. And sometimes, very rarely, people on the internet say stupid things. Obviously... we need to ban the internet too. Or perhaps we should just accept that sometimes people do stupid things, and rather than punish everybody, we just punish the stupid people. Unless of course children are involved, in which case, feel free to go bat shiat crazy. It's the popular thing to do right now. I'm looking at you, Obama.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    5. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that most ID badges aren't being used to track where I am at the office. They aren't being used to see if I'm there at work, they're being used to let me into the building, more of a virtual key. There's a HUGE difference between an electronic key and being treated like cattle.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    6. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by Sarius64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because over-zealous administrators and government officials that deem it necessary to control every moment of a human being's life could not possibly be the nut in the equation.

    7. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by Ferzerp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One need not be a religious nut to see the danger in indoctrinating children to accept this level of location tracking, even if it is only within the confines of a school, it still opens the door to more by creating a generation of individual's who are less averse to privacy invasion due to familiarity.

    8. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      You know those little ID batches you have to wear to work (office workers everywhere know this)? Same technology. Adults do it all the time, and nobody complains about how MegaCorp Inc is watching where they're going once they're off work because they're carrying an RFID card.

      That's because Adults get to decide where they work, and if they're worried about carrying 'the mark of the Beast' or whatever religious belief, then they can choose to quit and work elsewhere. It's true the kids could quit school too, but it's not nearly as easy because of zoning and their parents might not be able to home school them, and the schooling is mandatory so they can't just protest by not attending.

      Not that I'm saying it's rational thinking, just explaining since you don't seem to understand why these folks go "full retard." Honestly, it doesn't seem like you're trying to understand the situation or answer the question to which you relied. Having fun shooting fish in a barrel? "Oh look! Irrational folks acting Irrationally -- And I'm pointing it out!" How Interesting . Fuck you mods.

    9. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by Xeranar · · Score: 2

      You wear an RFID badge if you work in a high-tech firm. You wear an RFID badge if you work in a high-security building. You wear an RFID badge in numerous situations that employ lawyers, engineers, and various other professionals. Why is this an issue? Oh that's right, it is /. and any of normal monitoring and security is an infringement of their constitutional right to be a belligerent dick.

      Side note: Yes, schools can do this. Is it right or wrong? Really depends on how they use it but it is how you use the technology not the technology itself.

    10. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      They aren't really being used to track the kids either. They "can" and that's enough to set off lots of people. I have to swipe in and out of multiple doors at work. Maybe they don't track me, but it would be trivial for them to do so. I've worked other places where bored executives do track people. They want to see when people get to work and how long they stay. Much like most companies don't read everyone's email, but the capabilities are there, and some people do. I know I have, though only under written orders from an exec for a specific purpose.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    11. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am also open to the notion that the only way we will better understand human activity is to study it.

      If you want to do social studies then get consent from randomly selected citizens. A curiosity to study human nature in no way entitles anyone to track people *who cannot refuse to be tracked due to a massive power imbalance* (eg. pupils). To want to track people aligns with totalitarian and fascist impulses. The student in question was completely right to refuse to be tracked, and anyone who opposes it is completely wrong and against the freedoms in the spirit of the US Constitution. The fact that anyone would seek to justify such tracking beggars belief.

    12. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by Baloroth · · Score: 2

      You know those little ID batches you have to wear to work (office workers everywhere know this)? Same technology. Adults do it all the time, and nobody complains about how MegaCorp Inc is watching where they're going once they're off work because they're carrying an RFID card.

      Nope, don't have one of those.

      Your credit card probably has an RFID too.

      Nope.

      Your cell phone may even have one.

      Well, sort of, they have to communicate with towers. Cell phones have RFID built in by definition, thats how they work.

      The crap you buy at the superstore... yup, there too.

      Aaand nope. Some of the newer ones, maybe, and expensive product is generally tagged with a badge that sets off the exit alarms, but it gets removed/disabled after you walk out, and it doesn't track the movement through the store (that stuff is far more expensive than most megamarts are willing to spring for). Besides, I'm not exactly going to complain over what someone else does with the stuff they own, am I?

      In any case, the point is if I don't want to, I don't need to be tracked, by anyone or anything. Students, however, don't get that right. They can't object, courtesy of this case. And if teenagers when they are most impressionable are being tracked, they get used to it and start to accept it as adults... which means very soon our sort-of democracy sees no problem forcing everyone to be tracked by the government. And that every right-minded individual should have a very big problem with.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    13. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by Ferzerp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In every example that you present, you are in the environment due to your own choice. You are free to refuse the badge and leave at any time. Therein lies the difference.

    14. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by girlintraining · · Score: 2

      Because some people have a sense of dignity and object to being treated like cattle.

      If these hypothetical people equate RFID badges to the undignified and bovine because it might allow someone to track their movements, I can only assume they also don't work at any place that requires keycards or ID badges for entry (most are RFID-based), carry no credit cards, have no plans on ever leaving the country (passport), don't own a cell phone, do not drive a car (automated number plate recognition), only buy from an increasingly-limited number of stores who don't embed RFID tags in their products for inventory control, and in the near future will have to avoid taking certain drugs (RFID-tagged pills on things like pain medication, etc., for medication management is in the works)...

      Pray tell, where do these hypothetical people live, with the Amish? RFID is everywhere. It is a pervasive technology, and until someone suggested tagging high schoolers with them, nobody's sense of dignity and bovinity was called into question. I suspect there's a sense of something here that's driving most people who have a problem with this -- but it's not dignity.

      --
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    15. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > You wear an RFID badge if you work in a high-tech firm.

      I've spent my working life in high-tech firms and have managed to somehow avoid this. Furthermore, those function as ACCESS CONTROLS. They are keys. They aren't intended for Big Brother spying nonsense.

      Even if the tech were the same (which it isn't), the intent is quite different.

      Corporate beaurocrats have better things to do with their time and money (fortunately).

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    16. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are free to take your kid out of school and homeschool them if you're scared of government intrusion blah blah blah shut up

      You're also free to pull your kid out of school because the teaching is incompetent, the school environment is crap.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    17. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      If these hypothetical people equate RFID badges to the undignified and bovine because it might allow someone to track their movements, I can only assume they also don't work at any place that requires keycards or ID badges for entry (most are RFID-based), carry no credit cards, have no plans on ever leaving the country (passport), don't own a cell phone, do not drive a car (automated number plate recognition), only buy from an increasingly-limited number of stores who don't embed RFID tags in their products for inventory control, and in the near future will have to avoid taking certain drugs (RFID-tagged pills on things like pain medication, etc., for medication management is in the works)...

      And the same people are probably posting their location all over Facebook, FourSquare, G+, and all the dozens of other places (including photo location tags). And they carry cellphones, which is a very nice tracking device that a lot of people have. Heck, I bet even the opponents of RFID tracking carry 'em. And tracking systems for phones exist - they may not be able to match a person to a phone serial number, but they can follow that serial number anywhere.

    18. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by grumpy_old_grandpa · · Score: 2

      Well, where my mate works, the access swipes are timestamped, registered, and stored. Access to the logs are restricted, but in HR related cases, they can look at when you came in, and where you walked.

    19. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by khallow · · Score: 2

      While I feel a knee-jerk reaction against such privacy invasion myself, I am also open to the notion that the only way we will better understand human activity is to study it. As the schools aren't open about any such goal, and probably don't even have one I suppose we can discount it in this case. Data on human activity is of immense worth however, and to stand in the way of harvesting it for no rational reason is akin to religious nuttery.

      To elaborate on the point the other replier made, human research in the developed world generally is based on the informed and voluntary consent of the subjects of the research.

      As for the dangers of indoctrinating children.

      One need only look at student loans in the US. There's a huge disaster brewing there from millions of college students borrowing large amounts (on usurious terms, creating unique debt that cannot be discharged or ameliorated in a bankruptcy proceeding) for the risky process of obtaining a credential with dubious value, the college diploma.

      What exactly are the ill effects you perceive of more people knowing your shit? The next generation are telling everybody their shit voluntarily anyway.

      And we're seeing some of the more obvious effects, such as losing jobs or relationships because of something that got online (and not necessarily by the intent of the victim).

      But I have to ask here, why should I be in favor of a problem that can result in fraud, theft, blackmail, or other crimes against me? Or which can result in powerful entities knowing too much about me and using that to harm me and those I care about?

    20. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      We've actually run a couple of experiments tracking building use and interaction by using badges that report their position to observe people in the building. In both cases, wearing the badges was entirely opt-in (and required signing a form saying you understood exactly what data would be collected), and even then the ethics committee imposed some restrictions on the data that could be collected and how it had to be anonymised. It amazes me that a deployed system would have far weaker privacy constraints than an experiment.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    21. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2

      As someone who's admin'd a smart card based access system, I can tell you that I know exactly when you got into the building, when you went for coffee, which route you take through the building and how long you take walking it... I can even tell you if you prefer to take a dump in the morning or afternoon just by which doors you use and when you return through them.

      Just because all that you see is "My card lets me through this door, but not through that door" doesn't mean that is the only functionality available. Even better than this, all of this information is logged so it can be used by managers to discuss time management, for example. Big Brother is definitely watching you.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    22. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      They aren't really being used to track the kids either. They "can" and that's enough to set off lots of people

      Unfortunately "can" translates to "will" given enough time, we've seen that time and again whether it's forcing kids to take off shirts with religious messages (which has happened) or whether it's this. Employers don't track employees because they won't stand for it. But if we train them to accept it as kids, they sure will. This is the first stage of acceptance training. Remember, our grade school system was not designed to maximize learning. It was designed to produce obedient factory workers and soldiers, and this tendency has only been enhanced since its creation with initiatives like "no child left behind". Yes, we'll send them all to die for the profits of the rich.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:Can someone remind me why this is sinister? by RaceProUK · · Score: 2

      posting their location all over Facebook, FourSquare, G+, and all the dozens of other places

      By choice.

      And they carry cellphones

      By choice.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
  2. Negative Ghostrider... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... she's a conservative Texas politician who actually wants to do something to curb the out-of-control expansion of statist government bureaucrats.

    We need more like her. It's time to start shrinking this "Feed me Seymour, Feed Me!" little shop of horrors that our government has become before it devours all of our rights and liberties.

  3. Bah, skip it! by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    Trying to ban RTFA? Sounds good to me.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  4. I love how... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I love how /. rightfully rails against the erosion of rights that occurred as a result of the decision in Andrea Hernandez' case, but then the first comments here are almost all attacking the bill's intent and the representative as being a religious nut from Texas. Whether that's true or not (I don't know this representative, so I couldn't say, nor have I read the article or bills) is irrelevant.

    Religion doesn't always have to be against what the /. groupthink believes is right. In this case, religious nuts may be off-base, but they came to the right conclusion regardless. Even if their math doesn't add up correctly, we can all agree that it's the right solution.

    *said by a deeply religious person who thinks the religious nuts in this whole mess really are nuts*

    1. Re:I love how... by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      RFID tags in school IDs isn't an erosion of rights unless you're a crackpot. These same students will have RFID tags in their driver's license when they're old enough to drive and if their state has enhanced ID systems.

    2. Re:I love how... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You do realize that citing more examples of ways that our right to privacy is already being infringed or violated is not exactly a great way to make your point, right?

    3. Re:I love how... by fredprado · · Score: 2

      The more devices like this you have attached to you the less likely you will get any privacy. The fact that some exist, and some are even mandatory, does not make it acceptable to impose more. Actually even those mandatory ones, like passports, are abusive in my view.

      If you opt for being tracked it is your choice, but nobody should be forced to accept it.

    4. Re:I love how... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      I'll repeat: you do realize that citing more examples of ways that our right to privacy is already being infringed or violated is not exactly a great way to make your point, right?

      Just because cell phones can track us does not mean that it's acceptable for them to be doing so. Just because one abuse has occurred does not mean we must tolerate more. Just because you're okay with sacrificing a right you don't exercise does not mean that others of us who also don't exercise it feel that the right should be sacrificed so readily.

      This isn't a matter of getting with the times. These same issues existed in every "Papers, please" society and have been around for decades, if not centuries. The technology may have changed, but the problem hasn't changed, and our obligation is to defend our rights, even if we're not using them, so that they are still available to future generations. If anything, you're the one out of touch.

  5. Re:Can you really not figure out what comes next? by Goaway · · Score: 2

    Remember, if somebody you don't like hasn't actually done anything bad, you can just make something up and accuse them of that!

  6. Re:A confession by SourceFrog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whatever method they use, I personally don't have a problem with a school keeping track of attendance in an automated way

    The problem with this statement is you're stating that you don't mind them doing it to the kids of other parents. You're "consenting" on their behalf for something done to them. That's about as meaningful as saying "I consent to slavery because I'm not black". It's one thing to consent to your own kids being tracked, but I think the school should at least have to get permission from every parent, and not track those who do not give permission. Actually, I'm not even sure that goes far enough; kids do have some rights that are outside the domain of parental consent.

    --
    My other UID is three digits.
  7. My View by Murdoch5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    RFID can have its place in schools, for young kids I think it's a great idea, for teens not so much. However another interesting point is that RFID tags could introduce a new level of security in schools. If you have 200 kids and teachers all armed with RFID tags then you can simply lock the doors for the day and not let anyone else in, why is this a good idea? Simple school shooters, they can't get in the school so potentially you create a safer environment. Another great feature is being able to detect if your kids is skipping school or not! No more attendance and calls home.

    Now as for people who have privacy issues with it, I can understand where your coming from however when you want to argue it DO NOT QUOTE RELIGION! The entire issue I have with Andrea is that she tried to being her faith as a reason to not wear a badge. You can't use this kind of argument, if you allow it then you must allow EVERY SINGLE religion based argument with no issue. I could just as easily state that my religion states I must bring semi automatic guns into the classroom and as soon as I say that you have to allow it! Or I could say something like I don't allow people of color in the classroom, then you need to make accommodations. Hence why I think when you fall back to religion as an argument you don't make a good case.

    If your arguments however are focused on privacy and personal space and all of that then you have a case to fight and I'll stand behind you. Pick logic over god and I'll stand there and agree with you, pick god over logic and your out before you start. If RFID can be brought into the classroom with out invading the privacy of students and without being used as a means to an end of targeted advertising then it's a good idea!

  8. already dehumanizing enough by bcrowell · · Score: 2

    Hallelujah!

    (a) High school is already enough of a dehumanizing experience.

    (b) I have two teenage kids. Their generation is growing up thinking that it's some kind of crime to walk home from school and kick pinecones instead of getting driven straight to soccer practice and then SAT prep.

    (c) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

    --
    Find free books.
  9. burying the lead by slashmydots · · Score: 2

    I think they're forgetting the first fact, which is this is so falsifiable, it's comical. One badge on your shirt, the other in your pocket. Tada, you and your friend attended class. It's idiotic and a complete joke of a system.

    Okay, you can all go back to ethics and morals now, lol.

    By the way, the political bill-namers could have a field day with this one! Anti-children as livestock bill. Anti-child tracking bill. Kid-tagging bill. Pretty much any title sounds bad, let alone if they try to do it on purpose.

  10. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  11. Re:Can you really not figure out what comes next? by fredprado · · Score: 2

    Educate yourself:

    http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

    http://www.amazon.com/Go-Directly-Jail-Criminalization-Everything/dp/1930865635/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Tyranny-Good-Intentions-Constitution/dp/0307396061/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z

  12. actually it does. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually it does.

    If some asshole is going to hold me accountable for the location of their brat, then I've going to stick an RFID on the brat. And those assholes hold me accountable for their brat until that brat enters the front door of their house.

    So fuck them and their brat, they brought this on themselves.