Australian Spy Agency Seeks Permission To Hack Third-Party Computers

New submitter LordLucless writes "ASIO, Australia's spy agency, is pushing for the ability to lawfully hijack peoples' computers — even if they are not under suspicion of any crime. They seek the ability to gain access to a third party's computer in order to facilitate gaining access to the real target — essentially using any person's personal computer as a proxy for their hacking attempts. The current legislation prohibits any action by ASIO that, among other things, interferes with a person's legitimate use of their computer. Conceivably, over-turning this restriction would give ASIO the ability to build their own bot-net of compromised machines. Perhaps inevitably, they say these changes are required to help them catch terrorists."

Comments

How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

The only thing I can think of at the moment is to use Linux and make sure I've closed all uncessary ports...?

What else? I am not a security buff. Encryption doesn't seem particularly useful, since the problem here isn't that ASIO is accessing our files (although they would probably definitely be doing that too), but that they're using our bandwidth and processing resources.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Scarletdown]

Hopefully, someone with some significant power there in the Australian government cordially invites them to piss off.

Re:How do we stop them?

[sabri]

I am an Australian.

Find the nearest Equadorian embassy and request political asylum :-)

Re:How do we stop them?

[jamesh]

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

Over here! We have a troublemaker!

Seriously though, I wouldn't worry too much. All the hardening you already do to you computer to keep the existing viruses out will be just fine. The only possible problem will be that the antivirus vendors may be persuaded to ignore government sanctioned malware, but such a thing will be self correcting when the malware authors figure out how to mimic government malware.

Re:How do we stop them?

[MichaelSmith]

Most likely they will instrument your operating system or hardware in your absence so look at ways to keep it secure while you are away, or keep it with you at all times. Remember that they could log keystrokes with a simple device inserted into your machine.

Re:How do we stop them?

[drankr]

Why aren't you using Linux already?

Re:How do we stop them?

[ChunderDownunder]

If you read the article. it's a senior member of the government proposing the legislation.

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

i doubt much of the australian government has any idea who they are even dealing with

Re:How do we stop them?

[spazdor]

Or, if the ASIO really needs the resources it says it needs, let them go to the Australian people with their hat in their hands and ask for volunteers to run an Aussie-Government 'network agent' on their Internet-connected PCs to help them catch child molesters and plane-bombers for the good of the homeland, and if appeals to patriotism don't do the trick, let them offer money, and we'll find out how much a person's Internet privacy sells for on the open market.

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

Find the nearest Equadorian embassy and request political asylum :-)

or just burn all your aussie id, hire a boat and go find a navy vessel off the north west coast

you get more government benefits as an illegal immigrant in australian detention centres than you do as an australian citizen (unless you're aboriginal or a torres strait islander, in which case you're set for life)

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

don't use windows as your os for starters

Re:How do we stop them?

[MichaelSmith]

I assure you they do. The official cracking industry employs a few very smart computer security people.

Re:How do we stop them?

[ChunderDownunder]

So it's okay for Conroy to ban technology company Huawei from supplying equipment for the NBN over spying concerns yet it's okay for our government to target its own citizens. Hmmm...

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Find the nearest Equadorian embassy and request political asylum :-)

or just burn all your aussie id, hire a boat and go find a navy vessel off the north west coast

you get more government benefits as an illegal immigrant in australian detention centres than you do as an australian citizen (unless you're aboriginal or a torres strait islander, in which case you're set for life)

This post is racist, it is factually incorrect, and it is pretty much just a paraphrase of one of the moronic soundbites coming out of Tony "Stop the Boats" Abbott's mouth.

Kindly take your bullshit somewhere less enlightened. Slashdot doesn't need your taint.

Re:How do we stop them?

[bakuun]

How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

ASIO would come in the same way that normal cybercriminals would, so it's a matter of standard common-sense security precautions.

If you're using Windows, keep it up-to-date and use a decent antivirus program - Microsoft's security essentials works fine. Don't click links in emails from strange people. Don't open email attachments from strange people. In terms of software, a good rule, originally by Brian Krebs I believe, is not to install software if you didn't search for that software in the first place (with other words, don't install if it comes to you by email, or if it pops up when you're browsing around generally, etc etc).

In addition to the operating system, a few other pieces of software are fairly important to keep up-to-date: Your internet browser. Adobe flash and reader, if you use those. Java (or better yet, disable Java in the browser completely).

Re:How do we stop them?

[MichaelSmith]

Yeah because we elected him.

Re:How do we stop them?

[GoodNewsJimDotCom]

I've been concerned Microsoft already has back doors into computers already with the whole warrant-less wiretapping in the US. Maybe AUS will force MS and Apple into compliance and force backdoors onto computers. Then as governments are known to do lately, just adopt a law that is 'working' in another nation. They don't try this stuff as much in the US first anymore because we had massive public backlash against SOPA/PIPA. Maybe its time for the people AUS to stand up now. I always think it is a beautiful thing when the people stand up against bad laws and stop them.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the days of remote admin exploits for Windows are long gone. Or at least they are on par with what's available for Linux or Mac OS X.. which is very rare nowadays. Or do you have evidence that current Windows versions are inherently buggy on that front?

That beings said, no system can withstand dumb users clicking where they shouldn't.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Scarletdown]

I did actually have a look at the article, and saw that it was Australia's AG that is proposing this. Surely there are more people higher up the government food chain than the AG?

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

install linux (i prefer debian stable, but that's just me)

closed all uncessary ports

that's usually a function of your router, but linux can also be used for routing functions using an iptables script... here's an example that you can execute from /etc/rc.local (on a debian machine anyway):

#!/bin/bash
echo -n "Loading iptables firewall..."
iptables -F
iptables -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
iptables -P FORWARD DROP
iptables -P INPUT DROP
iptables -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -m state --state RELATED,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -j DROP
echo "done."
exit 0

not the most locked down firewall that you can make with iptables, but its probably a similar configuration to what you would find in most off-the-shelf routers by default. you only need to add more exceptions if you run servers of sorts (ports 80 and 443 for httpd, 25 and 110 for mail, 53 for dns, etc). you can also nat between networks with iptables.

edit /etc/hosts.deny and make the only non-commented line ALL:ALL, and make sure there is nothing (except comments) in /etc/hosts.allow

also be sure to configure all users except human users and root so that shell is /bin/false in /etc/passwd and /etc/passwd-

also, don't install any programs from sources other than official repositories (except for things like flash from adobe website) and don't install garbage apps and avoid torrrent clients which are a breeding ground for malware for all operating systems. i tend to favor stable repositories (with auto security repos update), with many vulnerabilities being due to inadequately tested updates. despite the hype, the testing aspects of both waterfall and extreme programming methodologies are rarely followed in open source projects, with the most common being the "code and test" or (derogative) "cowboy coding" methodology.

use shields up @ https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 to verify if you have any exposed ports

also, to protect your wifi network(s), only use wpa2 (don't use wep) and set up an access list so that only registered mac addresses will be able to connect

always use https for online banking and make sure the top and 2nd level domains are what you expect (most modern browsers highlight them)

some of this stuff is less to do with asio and more to do with security in general. no doubt other /. users will chime in if i've said something wrong or if i've missed something obvious. there's also other security things like wheel group, and there are hardening tutorials for most major distros out there. debian has a good one here: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ but for controlling remote access, the best way is to harden your browser settings (uninstall/disable any unneccesary plugins, disable java, etc), tighten up your wifi security and make sure no router ports are open

the internet is a scary place, but most viruses and malware is unintentionally installed by users from a web browser or email client (in windows). hacking is a problem, but its only serious if you're hosting. look up how a router works and that may help cool some of your fears. grc has a good info page here: http://www.grc.com/nat/nat.htm
summary: think of a nat router as sort of being like a one-way valve, so you can make requests out but only responses to your requests can come back in (ininvited requests are dropped)
if your computer is part of a botnet, there's a good chance that you unintentionally installed software from your web browser or email (or junkware/shareware) that caused it. malware rarely if ever gets onto your pc on its own, and also having malware or virus infected files on your machine is ok as long as they aren't op

Re:How do we stop them?

[whoever57]

If you're using Windows, keep it up-to-date and use a decent antivirus program -

I you are using Windows, then the simple answer is that you can never be sure that your machine is secure. You can never know if Microsoft has put a backdoor into the system that hides itself.

Even if you are using anti-virus, it is ineffective. I have seen 2 machines compromised in the last year that both had fully up-to-date antivirus. Only a couple of days after the compromise did the anti-virus detect the issue (in the first case, I tracked down the executable and submitted it to a site that tests against multiple anti-virus engines and most did not detect it until a few days later).

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

i hate tony "budgie smuggler" abbott, and i'm not racist because i hate all races equally

go take your politically motivated garbage elsewhere

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

windows isn't overly buggy... it's just inherently insecure

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

you're assurance isn't reassuring. i doubt most politicians know what asio does on the hacking front. they probably know asio is a security organisation with a website and a building

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

The courts... Which is why they want legislative support.

Otherwise if they get caught working for the RIAA and Hollywood, like happened in New Zealand, they might get asked difficult questions.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

- set up safefromasio.com.au (make sure it's hosted out of the country and doesn't use WordPress or a similarly insecure product).
- solicit advice from local experts.
- sell ads.
- profit!
- use your new wealth to move to a less oppressive country (such as Somalia?).

Re:How do we stop them?

[epyT-R]

So it's only ok to have racist government policy that gives entitlements to certain races and not others, but not ok when someone complains about it on the internet?

You've drunk too much PC kool-aid.

Re: How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really the AG is pretty high up. She is a totalitarian bitch though, along with Conroy they plan to make Australia worse than China. I am honestly considering moving countries because both major parties are evil.
I really hope the Green party have something to say about this, they seem to be the only voice of reason in regards to anything in relation to privacy and government powers.
Time for a massive change in politics in Australia.

Re:How do we stop them?

[TheGratefulNet]

antivirus will NEVER catch government approved bugs!

if you think about it, you'll understand.

and you won't ever trust antivirus apps again. they only block the things 'theyre allowed to'.

and yes, I'm serious. this has been covered several times before.

Re:How do we stop them?

[davester666]

You can use this argument to do anything

-open and read every piece of mail
-listen to every phone call
-attach gps monitors to every vehicle
-install and record video cameras everywhere
-require every computing device to have a backdoor so the gov't can search through it unhindered
-stop and search everyone in a given area

The gov't would potentially 'catch a terrorist' with any of these things. Obviously, they must be implemented immediately.

Re:How do we stop them?

[davydagger]

basic iptables config

*filter :INPUT DROP [0:0] :FORWARD DROP [0:0] :OUTPUT ACCEPT [0:0]
-A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT
-A OUTPUT -o lo -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
COMMIT

save that in /etc/iptables/iptables.rules and /etc/ip6tables.rules

and make sure if your distro doesn't have an iptables rc unit or something similar, to add

iptables-restore /etc/network/iptables
ip6tables-restore /etc/network/iptables

to your /etc/rc.local

that works great for desktops.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

i was actually referring to those whom asio seeks permission from having no idea

i have no doubts that asio is proficient in performing all manner of duties, many of which are clandestine

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Australia the Security agencies are part of the A-G, most media is handled and attributed to the A-G's department..

This s a proposal from the agency, not from the A-G.
They have lots of proposal, this will get knocked on the head too.

Re: How do we stop them?

[Scarletdown]

I reckon the other option would be for Australian citizens to take up their knives and baseball bats and... Nah. Don't think that would be very effective due to the super short range of those things. :/

Re:How do we stop them?

[AHuxley]

Run haiku-os.org, most of Australia's task forces and spooks buy in Windows, Mac (ppc/intel) and Linux (ppc/intel), ios, droid 'software' from friendly US, Canadian and UK security cleared providers.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBFS might be fun for them to wonder about everytime your OS fails to phone home :)

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? You think they're not going to break into anyone's house? Or do you think software can protect against physical access?

My best security advice is to use a hardened firewall (something like OpenBSD), only Free Software and some sort of non-obvious physical tamper-detection if you want to be safe against this. Building your own custom hardware (like this guy would be the best solution for physical access, since they're unlikely to devote the resources to reverse-engineer your hardware before they can do anything.

It's a tough one, though. You'd have to check everything for tampering every time you come home, etc. That'd defeat the whole purpose of the exercise, since the cops will just point at it as prima facie evidence that you're hiding something.

Here, you can use some of my tinfoil now.

Re:How do we stop them?

[pla]

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

Now why oh why would you want to help the terrorists, Citizen?

More seriously, how would that play out in the courts, if you discovered your computer participating in a "legal" police operation and chose to clean their BS malware off?

Re:How do we stop them?

[The1stImmortal]

He's a Victorian Senator (and is in the half of the Senate that got elected 2010 and won't be up again next election). I didn't vote for him (NSW here) - in fact I doubt many people at all actually voted for him (below the line on the ballot paper). Thanks to the way the senate gets elected combined with the inertia of the two major parties (the coalition might as well be one party these days), it'd actually be rather hard to vote him out - He's second on the ticket, so as long as Victorian Labor manages to get two seats worth in the 2016/2017 elections (not too hard) he's back in.

What I don't understand is how he's survived two prime ministers and countless cabinet shuffles in the exact same post. Normally ministers get rotated around a bit more, especially when they're as troublesome and controversial as Conroy. While I hate the idea of an Abbot-let Coalition government, the thought of another 3 years minimum of Conroy screwing up the IT & communications industries in Australia bothers me deeply.

Re:How do we stop them?

[AHuxley]

Its Australia, so they own you down to the exchange/rim/nbn 'card' with not much trouble and will log your net traffic 24/7.
CALEA export hardware is wonderful in that way :)
So expect any desktop consumer OS or hardware to be wide open by default.
If that fails, expect a sun tanned "tradie" to be at your home while your at work :)
2 plumbers, one day.
If your under ASIO watch, its still not so bad.
If you upset the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, they have a different origin in Australian law.
Their training, origins and methods are more US centric :)
The file system is the key, if the Win/Apple/Linux/droid spyware does not work, they have to get to the hardware - keyboard/service layer.

Re:How do we stop them?

[rtb61]

I am an Australian and I find the whole idea of the gutless and cowardly attack appalling. ASIO is proposing to leave some poor innocent nobody holding the bag for when the attack is detected. Some innocent person minding their own business acceding the internet, who suddenly finds the local swat team raiding their home and threatening that family with death. That whole family now finds itself on trial for espionage and treason a death penalty offence in many countries. That trial will be accompanied by torture. At which point will the Australia Government have the courage and stand up and tell the truth to the country so that the innocent family are no longer standing under the threat of execution.

This all smells of a request by the US government who has all sorts of laws to deny any rights at all to foreigners. Sounds like those people at Pine Gap have been up to some naughty business and are looking to tidy up the legalities of a 'Joint Facility', Australian and US, doing stuff that is legal for the US part of the partnership but illegal for the Australian part of the partnership and as the attack must eventually leave the joint territory and cross Australian land it is subject to Australian law.

It is well known that the US consider innocent third parties as nothing more than statistics and collateral damage, to be lied about in press releases but the Australian government better think long and hard about likely sending people to their death because those other countries aren't all rank computer security amateurs who wont detect the attack, after all if they were ASIO could attack direct or more accurately stand idly by and ignore the US led and controlled attack.

You only have to look at the MEGAupload case to see how badly it can go when you trust the US inJustice system.

Re:How do we stop them?

[TheSpoom]

How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

Against a nationstate with effectively unlimited resources where essentially all hacking has been declared legal? Nothing. You're screwed.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another racist piece of shit. We have too many of them here in Australia.

It's fucktards like crutchy that make this country worse and help convince the government to propose this kind of crap.

Re:How do we stop them?

[AHuxley]

Re -install and record video cameras everywhere.
Line your own home with the better quality gum stick video recorders - add storage, test the battery life for 12h?.

Re:How do we stop them?

[SigmaTao]

This is not hacking from the outside alone. This would validate ASIO entering your home and adding spy software/hardware directly.
Any idea of avoiding this would be very difficult.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple. Stay offline.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

another ignorant racist dipshit trying to accuse others of being racist when he himself is the racist turd

if you don't like that true australians feel free to hang shit on all races, then you don't belong here... fuck off back to retardistan you racist un-australian wanker

Re: How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is, if you make it too hard for terrorists to use computers/phones etc (ie they are/can be monitored), they simply switch to communicate via hand delivered notes written on paper.

Re:How do we stop them?

[jamesh]

Here, you can use some of my tinfoil now.

Wait a minute... how do I know you haven't tampered with it?

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh boy... this is bad. Politiks will inevitably reach the conclusion that it's easiest to get pre emptive back doors.

Here's what you do.

1: You need a clean, read only cd rom obtained from a trusted party. Check the sha1 on the ISO, and keep copies on drives
2: Yeah, download an O/S you trust. Sorry, but windows is pretty much out of the question
3: You have to run your own core services, or host them off country.

At a minimum this means dns, email, and VPN.

These are the common 'ports' of entry to a computer (Not the VPN, but people not using one).

They can send you emails, fake and spoof emails from friends, edit attachments to files you were expecting. Your DNS is nastily vulnerable.

If you're ultimately paranoid, you should also go in and remove any AUS owned CA's from your browsers.

Beyond that, you should get some of the hardening guides... there used to be tools like SARA/SAINT/SATAN a decade ago. Their pages will probably link to more modern and appropriate utilities.

Finally, learn. You just...can't secure yourself when you're in a position of blind faith and trust because of ignorance, because you're relying on the good will of others.

Re:How do we stop them?

[santosh.k83]

also, don't install any programs from sources other than official repositories (except for things like flash from adobe website) and don't install garbage apps and avoid torrrent clients which are a breeding ground for malware for all operating systems.

I've been using Transmission, Deluge, and KTorrent since several years and I've not encountered a single instance of malware which I didn't specifically download myself. Things might be different on Windows though where I guess it's popular to bundle malware with freeware torrent clients, but that just means you need to use a well known and trusted client; no need to avoid torrents.

Re:How do we stop them?

[LordLucless]

I don't think this is raw CPU cycles they're looking for here. It's more like: "We're trying to grab information on this guy. We see he visits www.somesite.com.au an awful lot. Let's get access to the computer of somesite's developer, grab his access keys, and modify somesite to deliver our trojan to the target."

Of course, once you've compromised a computer, are you going to just clean it up and let it go? After all that trouble of getting a warrant? Pfft, no - what if you need it again? You're going to list it as a resource and add it to the pile of private computers your agency owns.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't trust Microsoft, and don't allow automatic updates. If you do trust Microsoft and do allow automatic updates then you have a system that is totally accessible to a number of 3 (and 4) letter agencies. How naive the whole world appears to have become!

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

... higher up the government food chain than the AG ...

The AG is the stand-in for a King/Queen with 3 basic duties. Proposing policy or law is not her duty. Australians never admit their subservience to the US military but it's not difficult to imagine who is driving this.

Comparing the American system: The functions of the US president is split between the AG and the prime minister (essentially the head of Congress).

Re: How do we stop them?

[Antarius]

along with Conroy they plan to make Australia worse than China

Fortunately that one has been cancelled.

Re: How do we stop them?

[Antarius]

Baseball bats? Surely you meant "cricket bats?"

Re: How do we stop them?

[Scarletdown]

That was actually what I was thinking, it just came out baseball instead of cricket, due to distractions here.

Re: How do we stop them?

[dryeo]

Probably be a lot less deaths then the American revolution of 1861. Has their ever been a case of a violent revolution improving things besides the odd one that ended up as a successful war of separation?
Most successful revolutions seem to be the majority of the population doing civil disobedience with minimal violence and even that only works some of the times.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Scarletdown]

The AG is the stand-in for a King/Queen with 3 basic duties. Proposing policy or law is not her duty. Australians never admit their subservience to the US military but it's not difficult to imagine who is driving this.

I suppose there is a decent possibility of that. But surely Australia and other First World nations can descend into an Orwellian nightmare on their own without our coaching?

Re:How do we stop them?

[dryeo]

Well as all of your list also works very well for catching dissidents they'll all eventually be implemented. Dissidents are a much bigger threat to the established powers then terrorists.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not just how to stop them, but why are we in a position that we even have to?

As I see it, this is asking for the ability to infect unrelated peoples computers for the use of bringing down criminals. Thoughts for abuse by requiring peoples computers to: Launch DDOS attacks, Locate torrent users, Sniffing TOR exit nodes, follow transactions of bitcoin, etc etc.

Hacking/infecting a criminals computer to bring down a criminal ring is one thing.
Hacking/infecting MY computer and then using it to attack someone else is another thing entirely - this is like asking for policeman to be given lockpicks to break into other peoples cars, in case they need to borrow it to run someone over. A further point is when it is found it was my car used to kill someone, and no-one else was given access, will the police own up to borrowing my car?

Why do we have a people in a position of power whom think that it is fine to even ask for the authority to treat citizens like criminals?
Does this not signify that they are not fit the role of protecting it's citizens from foreign powers that seek to do the same?

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

antivirus will NEVER catch government approved bugs!

if you think about it, you'll understand.

It is worse than that.

If you rely on comparing software against a blacklist before running it, you'll eventually be owned. Nevermind any theories about collusion.

Re:How do we stop them?

[davester666]

Dissidents ARE terrorists, at least from the point of view of those in power.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

spot the linux fanboy

Unix, Windows and BSD are all fine if competently set up. This rarely happens. Since Windows workstations outnumber the stars in the sky, there are many Windows compromises. This actually makes Windows safer for the individual, since the problems are addressed and patches rolled out.

Re:How do we stop them?

[dryeo]

Partially true. For example both Romney and Obama probably cared a lot who won the presidency whereas those pulling the strings only cared that the Paulians and various third parties were removed from the running. The parties while subservient to the powers that be do still have quite a bit of power and want their golden retirement plan.

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

spot the windows fanboi... the proof is in the pudding... the number of linux kernels operating in the world (including beneath android and in embedded systems like set top boxes) far exceeds the number of windows installs, and yet no malware or virus problems, yet windows STILL needs antivirus and even then it gets infected

windows is only competently set up if it has antivirus... linux doesn't need it

keep drinking the microsoft kool-aid, moron

Re:How do we stop them?

[Mike Frett]

Exactly, the OS they are going to be Hacking will be MS based. Shit they don't even need to hack it, just pay MS to add a back-door, we already know they do this; no need to hack.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Z00L00K]

Linux with MLS enabled, but it will require you to learn how MLS works, and it's something that can cause dandruff just by reading the first page.

Using random unusual operating system can also work.

• Concurrent CP/M-86
• HP MPE
• OS/2
• TRON
• Sintran
• FreeVMS
• AROS

At least it will cause them to scratch their heads for a while.

Re:How do we stop them?

[dryeo]

I don't know much about Australia but around here the original owners of the country who happen to be a different race made a deal to sell their land on a payment plan and now the buyers are trying to weasel out of making their payments. How would you feel if you sold something on a payment plan and as soon as the buyer occupied the property you sold started claiming that due to your race you shouldn't get paid?
It is a problem with payment plans but when you're dealing with someone who doesn't recognize that pieces of paper or chunks of rock have value you're reduced to barter and when taking someones lively hood they're going to want something of equal value in return.

Re:How do we stop them?

[pjt33]

I think you're confusing the Attorney General with the Governor General.

Re:How do we stop them?

[maxwell demon]

Next step, they'll make it illegal to take countermeasures they cannot circumvent.

Re: How do we stop them?

[maxwell demon]

The thing is, if you make it too hard for terrorists to use computers/phones etc (ie they are/can be monitored), they simply switch to communicate via hand delivered notes written on paper.

Then forbid paper as a terrorist's tool.

Re: How do we stop them?

[craigminah]

If they used cricket bats it could take days to finish the beatdowns...and it would be boring to watch.

Re:How do we stop them?

[daem0n1x]

I'm so glad the Eastern Socialist Block came crumbling down in pieces. Now we can enjoy the joys of freedom and democracy our Western Capitalist governments give us.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

if they do implement it then demand a tax credit, because the government is using your resources. Heck i wonder if that could count you as a government employee and entitle you to at least some pay.

Re:How do we stop them?

[currently_awake]

you would have no way to tell it was legal.

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

i think your stoush is actually with the europeans (who settled the land)

history is full of conquerors and conquered... do you see italy still paying off any of the people it conquered during the roman empire? how about france for napoleon's endevours? ...or the united states for almost eliminating native american-indian culture?

most australians (born in australia at least) don't really give a shit about race... aussie is aussie, as long as you play by the rules and treat others as you would like to be treated (and by the way i don't mind being criticised and poked fun at, as long as it is in jest), but when you get laws that favour certain race, blaming the government that maintains those laws is a poke at the government, not the race for which they favour, and we live in a country where our freedom to blame the government is as important as our right to drink beer

the real racists of the world are the ones who get their back up over race in the first place

i don't give a shit what race you are, if you get more than me from the government than me merely because you're a certain colour, the government is a bunch of fucking nit wits

Re:How do we stop them?

[Namors]

The Australian Aborigines didn't sell their land (in fact they had no concept of buying or selling land) they saw themselves as caretakers of it.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

ASIO is proposing to leave some poor innocent nobody holding the bag for when the attack is detected

Yes, and it may not be the government that knocks on your door, depending on who was being attacked via your compromised pc. They are even less understanding than the feds.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're confusing the Attorney General with the Governor General.

You think?!

Parent is patently confusing the AG with the GG.

Re:How do we stop them?

[GumphMaster]

No, the article clearly says it is the Attorney-General's department (the public service organisation that contains ASIO) through an anonymous "spokesman for the Attorney-General's Department" not the Attorney-General herself that is "pushing for new powers for the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation to hijack the computers of suspected terrorists." ASIO playing the fear card in public arenas and making excessive demands is the typical method of ratcheting up their existing powers to some some lesser degree.

Re: How do we stop them?

[Ghaoth]

The Greens are watermelons. Green on the outside, red on the inside. I hope you're happy about that.

Re: How do we stop them?

[Antarius]

Distractions... You obviously weren't watching the cricket then. ;)

Re: How do we stop them?

[Antarius]

Touche.

Though I vaguely recall some Kiwi in the early 90s beating a shark off with a cricket bat...

Re:How do we stop them?

[Anonymous Coward]

...You figure that the same people that run the US system are letting the governments of other countries alone? That kind of mindset isn't stopped by an national boundary, law, ideology, or morality; They want power, and if it means corrupting yet another nation to do it, they will.

It's not a US vs. AU thing, and by seeing it that way you're just playing into the hands of the people pulling the strings.

Re:How do we stop them?

[Occams]

The AG is the minister for both ASIO and the AFP. It is the AFP that should have these powers, if any agency really needs them, because they actually catch people who are committing real crimes and they get prosecutions in court. The Federal Police are: well trained, highly disciplined, well managed and can defend themselves against real bad guys. ASIO is not any of those things. It just snoops for intelligence, most of which is hearsay and inadmissible as evidence, and it makes scary reports to the AG.

Re:How do we stop them?

[DirtyLiar]

I am an Australian. Assume this passes. How can I harden my computer against being used as a node in an ASIO botnet?

Don't worry, they'll make doing that illegal.

Besides, why do you hate Australia? Any Australian patriot should be proud to help their country in the new cyber-war against terrorism. Even if that does put you in the cross-hairs of any retaliation.

Re:How do we stop them?

[DirtyLiar]

All they need to do is follow the CIA's phylosphy:

If it didn't happen in-country, it didn't happen.
If someone is not a citizen, they have no rights.

So the REAL question is why even bother leagilizing it?

Just target computers outside Australia, no privacy problems, no breaking and entering problems, no search-and-seazure problems, no civil rights issues.

All because it didn't happen in Australia.
And it wasn't us anyway, prove it was.

Re:How do we stop them?

[SigmaTao]

I'm guessing it makes it easier for personnel from other agencies (police et al) to be told to ignore what is going on.
I also allows them to legally use resources outside ASIO to do things on their behalf, and redirect information acquired to other entities without finding they are breaking the law.

Re:How do we stop them?

[metrix007]

counting android? Windows doesn't need anti-virus, stupid users need anti-virus. Big difference.

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

a lot of people don't really understand android... yes android is linux, but its also not. android is a layer running on top of linux. you can infect your android device with a virus, but it won't infect the underlying linux kernel operation. android may be insecure, but android is merely an application layer with some kernel mods; the kernel is still secure.

stupid users on a linux machine don't need antivirus... from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware "There has not yet been a widespread Linux malware threat of the type that Microsoft Windows software faces"... this is not merely due to linux users being smarter, as there are plenty of linux users who are just as ignorant of security aspects as their windows counterparts... most popular linux distributions come with security defaults that would protect even the most idiotic user from infecting the operating system, despite it being possible to infect user files. it's thanks to the way system file permissions are set by default, and also (in gdm anyway) a user can't login as root from the login user interface. also, any root function requires typing in a password rather than the overly simplistic (and widely ignored) click-through privelige escalation in windows.

btw i agree with your sig... although the /. mod system is also fucked

Re:How do we stop them?

[metrix007]

First of all, android rootkits inject into the linux kernel. Second of all, most distributions are no more secure than windows after XP. They both prompt for a password to do administrator things, and both allow user files to be overwritten and infected silently.

Re:How do we stop them?

[crutchy]

have you got any sources for you first claim?

your second and third points are just plain bullshit... if i install a program in windows 7 that needs admin access, i get a popup box where i just click accept and the program installs

user files can be overwritten in linux, but good luck trying to infect any system file without a root password

if windows 7 were as secure as linux, you wouldn't need a virus scanner for windows either

Insanity

[xtal]

So what happens when one of these third parties is detained as a spy, if their compromised computer is detected at a border? Depending on where you go, taking a machine with you sounds like it could actually put your life - or at least, your freedom - at risk?

Have we given up even maintaining the facade of the rule of law now?

Re:Insanity

[Occams]

No doubt ASIO has been doing this for years already. Now it wants to use something that it has discovered this way as evidence. To do that it must show where it came from, and it that was not legal then they cannot do so.

Huh...

[Anonymous Coward]

You know... you start trespassing on peoples property and eventually you find some people who do the same back at you.

I don't have the remotest sense of faith anything public servants or defense personnel put together in this country could stand to defend against penetration attempts from vetted software security experts.

Is this really a smart idea? It's like asking for backlash, with the risk of having potentially sensitive information exposed as a result.

Re:Huh...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like asking for backlash

Definitely. You will know your machine has been used as a proxy by ASIO when the organized crime comes knocking the doors down.

Re:Huh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or when your transfer (used to be download, but most a lot of isps count bytes in both directions now) quota vanishes....

Re:Huh...

[AHuxley]

You will find a laptop in suburbia running Windows logging you from a house rented by a front company.

All Governments

[grantspassalan]

These days are justifying their actions with âoehelp the childrenâ or âoecatch terroristsâ.

What happens if you get rid of their backdoor..

[NettiWelho]

You get charged with interfering with law enforcement operation?

Re:What happens if you get rid of their backdoor..

[girlinatrainingbra]

Re:What happens if you get rid of their backdoor...
.

Probably something similar to what happened to the guy who found the FBI's GPS tracker on his car and ended up with them coming to him to retrieve it :
.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/10/08/1413240/College-Student-Finds-GPS-On-Car-FBI-Retrieve

.

http://www.blogrunner.com/snapshot/D/5/1/caught_spying_on_student_fbi_demands_gps_tracker_back/

.

CBS News: FBI Spies on Student, Retrieves GPS Device
.

.

Then, in March of 2012, the FBI claims that it turned off about 3000 GPS tracking devices following a Supreme Court of the USA ruling that was not in their favor. Techdirt points out that they claim to have turned off 3000 GPS trackers and that they were having trouble retrieving them.

Re:What happens if you get rid of their backdoor..

[AHuxley]

Your computer will be infected again with consumer quality spyware next shift.
The ip it reports/logs back to will look like a local bonnet.
If you have the telco skills/a friend... the ip will be a house in a state capitol running a consumer computer/OS.
Just like any bonnet....

Re:What happens if you get rid of their backdoor..

[AHuxley]

Australia is not the USA. We had our state police running around suburbia "looking" for bank robbers in the 80'/90's.
Getting the wrong house attracted the print press and tv.
There will be no digital 'raids', nothing beyond another AV product not protecting a computer in time.
The spyware will be the usual suburban type and any ip linked from it will an endusers home.

I can hear a dingo...

[Anonymous Coward]

...eating your rights!

Re:I can hear a dingo...

[Anonymous Coward]

we keep telling them to chew with their mouths shut but they just don't listen

Ha

[Moe1975]

I'd like to see them do that to someone's OpenBSD box!

Re:Ha

[MichaelSmith]

Key logger

Re:Ha

[Moe1975]

Not remotely.

Re:Ha

[MichaelSmith]

Sure. Break in to the guys house to install your logger, with a cellular network connection. ASIO can break into houses easily enough.

Re:Ha

[Moe1975]

Right. Which would defeat the whole purpose of what they aim to achieve in this instance: use people's computers in a lawful, discreet, and efficient manner.

Re:Ha

[Anonymous Coward]

You're talking about modus operandi when they want to catch the owner of the box.

Article and GP speak about ASIO making people "volunteer" CPU and bandwidth for proxies and botnets.

I really hope that they don't yet have government permission to break in and bug houses at random.

Re:Ha

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, they'll just make secure systems illegal.

Re:Ha

[MichaelSmith]

Its lawful because they can go to the parliament to get the power to do it. It can be discreet and efficient because they can set themselves up to do it properly. Follow all the people who live in the house. Employ lock experts. Buy vehicles and brand themselves as electricians, whatever. Just walk in and do the job.

Re:Ha

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be more efficient to simply get their own hardware/software resources to achieve the objective (use other people's machines) than to do all that, and more discreet. Going to parliament every time, the administrative resoources needed to set it up, personnel to run surveillance, locksmiths, vehicles, disguises, all that, costs money and time and other resources, plus it is not as discreet as it may sound. Why do all that to get at someone's OpenBSD box when they can just basically waltz in to a Windows box? That has been my point, and I will say it again, I would like to see them remotely hijack an OpenBSD box.

Re:Ha

[Anonymous Coward]

They might want to break into your computer because it has already been compromised by someone else and they want this someone else to keep using it so they can collect enough evidence. If they have to break into your house and install something, so be it. They currently don't have that ability (under current law).

There is NO freaking operating system capable of protecting you when the attacker has physical access. And when I say no I mean no.

Re:Ha

[Anonymous Coward]

In the hands of the wrong user from their point of view, even with physical access it would be nearly impossible: I myself would be able to tell if something is off with my keyboard cable in seconds which is where a hardware keylogger would go, and I am NOT going to use a wireless keyboard - ever. And as far as gaining access to the OS, if the whole disk is encrypted and you have an adequate login password, there is no way to get into an OpenBSD box. Now, keystrokes can be snooped upon from a distance, but that is not easy to do either.

Re:Ha

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, you can surely only watch "antitrust" so many times before it gets boring

Re:Ha

[MichaelSmith]

Congratulations Mr AC. Due to your fanstastic karma score Thinkgeek have given you a brand new Das keyboard for your ongoing posting convenience.

Who is terrorizing who?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is terrorism even a thing to worry about down under? (other than from the government)

Re:Who is terrorizing who?

[MichaelSmith]

Its partly because of our close relationship with the US. We have to keep track of terrorists living in Australia, and possibly migrating here.

Re:Who is terrorizing who?

[crutchy]

australia is a backwater country with a small population and small economy (even though standard of living and per capita stats are good)

there are some large cities (melbourne, sydney, brisbane) but there isn't really much in the way of populated landmarks that would make good targets like the wtc in nyc

there are very few nuclear facilities (lucas heights) and a huge sparsely populated landmass to hide military facilities in

even our government is pretty tame in the big scheme of things

guess that's why its called the lucky country

Re:Who is terrorizing who?

[Anonymous Coward]

australia is a backwater country with a small population

Australia's 22 millions people puts it at 52 out of 242 countries. It would be 9th largest country in Europe.

and small economy

Australia has the 12th largest economy by GDP. That's in the top 5%.

there are some large cities (melbourne, sydney, brisbane) but there isn't really much in the way of populated landmarks that would make good targets like the wtc in nyc

Are you on crack? All of those cities (like every other modern city in the world) has large commercial and residential towers that would make excellent targets for a 9/11 style attack. Anything that isn't in the top 1% is not a backwater.

Re:Who is terrorizing who?

[crutchy]

have you ever been outside australia?

Re:Who is terrorizing who?

[Namors]

Who needs to leave the country ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_bombing#Accusations_of_conspiracy (search ASIO)

Re:Who is terrorizing who?

[crutchy]

there has been a bombing in melbourne too, and also a botched asio operation (after which parliament temporarily suspended permission for asio officials to carry firearms). sorry don't have links but giyf

we're still a backwater country... in many other countries bombings, terrorism and widespread violence are commonplace

Status of ASIO members ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Outside of Australia, what would be the status of ASIO members and those that authorize them?

Re:Status of ASIO members ?

[crutchy]

asio is probably akin to the cia in the states

Re:Status of ASIO members ?

[AHuxley]

ASIO ~MI5/ classic anti Soviet FBI unit. They will interview anyone directly in Australia, try and turn with 'cash'.
Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) ~MI6/CIA - unknown policy/past. Policy papers hint of been very, very direct until early 1980's.
DSD Defence Signals Directorate ~GCHQ/NSA/CSE - keeps codes safe, taps all telcos in Asia.
The public face of the Australian spooks has been ASIO, a hunt for communists, keeping its ranks pure and records shared with state police on all local groups, clubs, political types, gov workers, celebs during the Cold War.
Keeps the press and authors busy and away from the other agencies :)

The Aussie government is criminal.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems fitting somehow, since the original settlers of Australia were
people who had been branded as criminals by the power structure in
England at the time. Of course the truth is that those who were deported
to Australia were more often economically disadvantaged and not actually
any sort of hardened criminals. The current Australian government on the
other hand is looking like a very seasoned and very hardened criminal right now.

Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the NWO?

[Anonymous Coward]

https://brontebaxter.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/is-george-carlin-dead-because-he-spoke-of-the-new-world-order/

I donâ(TM)t know about you, but I find it very curious that comedian George Carlin died of chest pains a few months after his new, scathing routine on the powers-that-be got excerpted in a you-tube video, and five days after it was announced to the press that âoeCarlin was being awarded the 11th annual Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, which will be presented Nov. 10 in Washington and broadcast on PBS.â (quote from AP article appearing on yahoo! this morning)

Were the bad boys afraid of what would happen if honor-laden Carlin spoke his mind about the global conspiracy on national public television to millions of intelligent viewers? Stranger things have happened. I attended a lecture 12 years years ago by Bill Cooper, a retired naval intelligence officer who had written a book, âoeBehold a Pale Horse,â that spilled many secrets he had been privy to during his service.

Cooper said he had taken an oath, as a military officer, to defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, domestic and foreign. He believed it was his duty to that oath to expose the truth that was being kept from the American public, threatening American freedom. He had received warnings on his life and said if he wound up dead, it would prove everything he had been saying was true. Three years later I read that he had been shot to death on the front yard of his home.

Bill Cooper was not the first âoetrutherâ to be assassinated, but itâ(TM)s a name that sometimes gets forgotten on the list, which is reason enough to mention it. Was George Carlin a victim of something similar? Hard to say. But when an outspoken, fearless man with a growing public image steps forward claiming the people who âoeownâ the country have swallowed our freedoms and intend to swallow those few remaining, that tends to get noticed by the âoeownersâ he is talking about. How could they let Carlin stay on the loose?

Assassinations show us that aware people must collectively shoulder the burden of speaking about the whatâ(TM)s really happening in the world, quietly and in our personal circles. We must also, when we feel our numbers are great enough, act en masse, in huge nonviolent demonstrations and broad, collective acts of civil disobedience, against rules that infringe on basic human rights.

The few who become public targets by revealing information that points to the guilty (heroes like David Kelly, the Kennedys, David Icke) find themselves murdered or their reputations murdered. We can prevent that happening when we are everywhere, acting in a grassroots, âoethought-guerrillaâ fashion. The little mice, in the fable, freed the lion. The big beasts couldnâ(TM)t do it.

I discovered this you-tube announcement for a âoeRally Against the New World Orderâ scheduled to take place in London and in Washington, D.C. on July 4. We can support our heroes by standing with them on this day. Donâ(TM)t let David Icke, Alex Jones and other brave individuals try to stop the emerging fascist state alone. The time comes when each of us must do something.

Those who want to microchip humanity and establish a global government can sniper-shot our leaders. They canâ(TM)t kill millions of people who choose to oppose their strategies.

Itâ(TM)s time for us to speak out together. I believe the time has come to demonstrate, to make our message and presence widely known to the world.

The press canâ(TM)t ignore demonstrations that take place in massive proportions. Will these rallies be massive? Are we ready yet? Where will you be on July 4?

Bronte Baxter

© Bronte Baxter 2008

Anyone may republish this article on another website as long as they include the copyright and a back link to this site.

all large organizations are the enemy

[Anonymous Coward]

anytime an organization gets large enough it is invariably taken over by sociopaths and used to further their personal agendas

governments, corporations, churches are all the enemy of the individual

because the way the evil people at the top think unless an individual is their puppet, or under their thumb then the individual is a threat and power must be expanded until everyone is of that status

the "leaders" will use any excuse or lie to justify their power expansion but the results are always the same, larger budgets, more power, less accountability

there is no way to "fight" because I'm not evil enough to use their tactics, so all I can do is live quietly and hope they don't notice me or my family

I'd worry about a Tempest virus

[Anonymous Coward]

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/19.60.html#subj9

"I'd worry about a Tempest virus that polled a personal computer's
CD-ROM drive to pulse the motor as a signalling method:

* Modern high-speed CD-ROM drive motors are both acoustically and
    electrically noisy, giving you two attack methods for the price of one;

* Laptop computer users without CRTs, and the PC users that can afford
    large LCD screens instead of CRTs, often have CD-ROM drives;

* Users are getting quite used to sitting patiently while their
    CD-ROM drives grind away for no visibly obvious reason (but
    that's quite enough about the widespread installs of software from
    Microsoft CD-ROMs that prompted Kuhn's investigation in the first place.)"

Re:I'd worry about a Tempest virus

[MichaelSmith]

"I'd worry about a Tempest virus that polled a personal computer's CD-ROM drive to pulse the motor as a signalling method:

Why bother when it could use a small cellular modem?

What will Woz Do?

[Macrat]

Will Woz still want to buy Aussie citizenship if this is allowed?

TEMPEST Attacks! LCD Monitor leaks to FRS!

[Anonymous Coward]

TEMPEST Attacks! LCD Monitor leaks system noise to FRS

This post is one example of why Tor developers should focus on anti-TEMPEST-ing the Tor Browser, in color, fonts, etc.
===
I don't operate any wireless equipment at my living location. This includes computers, computer equipment, routers, non-computer equipment, etc.

I'm having a problem with one of my LCD monitors.

It works without problems. That was until I picked up some heavy static noises from a hand held radio. I eliminated all sources of generating this type of noise until I came towards an LCD monitor. When the monitor is on and there is content on the screen the radio makes several types of garbage(static) sounds. As I manipulate contents on the screen, maximize and minimize windows, open different applications, the radio responds with scratchy(static) noises to match the activity on the screen. This includes typing and mouse movement.

When I switched the desktop background to a solid black color without wallpaper, the radio noise went down to almost nothing. But when I loaded any program with a white background, the noise from the radio exploded in volume.

When I passed the radio across different computer and non-computer electronic devices other than the LCD monitor, the wired mouse made a high pitched squeal sound within the static. None of the other computing devices such as the tower generated any noise.

I tried CRT monitors and separate computers attached to the CRT monitors but they did not generate any noise in the radio. On the computer connected to the net, I unplugged the cable leading to the router to rule this out but it made no difference, the LCD monitor is at fault.

While monitoring the radio noise, there were several instances where the noise on the channel being monitored stopped, and I switched to another channel and the same noise appeared. Why would the noise from the LCD switch channels during normal use of the LCD? Back and forth throughout the day the noise generated by the LCD would switch from one channel to the next and back to the first channel again.

The noise extends several steps within my living location. I'll test this another day to determine if it extends outside my living location and if so by how many feet.

The computer/monitor are grounded and attached to a surge protector. I'm not sure what I need to do to stop this, or if I should ignore it.

I assumed LCDs would be quieter than CRTs when it came to noise.

Unless I have a radio tuned to a specific channel, the LCD does not generate any noise which I can detect, unless it's above my hearing capacity.

The LCD monitor also functions as speakers, and while the sound cable is connected to the tower, I have disabled the onboard sound in my BIOS. The only other connection is the DVI cable to the tower.

How may I decrease this noise or eliminate it? It seems like the LCD is a mini radio station. When I turn it off the noise in the radio stops, if I blacken the screen the noise lessens. When I switch to a colorful background or load white screened applications like a web browser the noise jumps up loudly. I've tried grabbing and moving a browser window around the screen and the movement matches the noises in the radio.

Would any of this be considered normal?
==-
This certainly isn't unheard of, it's because some part of the monitor is unshielded. The more fix-it stuff is at the top of the following, with the technical backdrop that just might be good to know is at the bottom.

Unfortunately, the issue is most likely the panel charging the LCs. The only thing you can do is see if the manufacturer will replace it or upgrade you. Complain to the manufacturer, be sure to come up with some important thing it's interfering with(if I recall some medical devices use some sort of radio).

If the issue is actually internal wiring which is highly unlikely as detailed below, and it isn't in warranty, attempt to shield it yourself. To shield it yourself, you'll need thin foil(not kitc

Re:TEMPEST Attacks! LCD Monitor leaks to FRS!

[graphius]

Does this get the record for the longest TL;DR reply? It has to be in the running

What happened to the "free" of the "Free World" ?

[Taco Cowboy]

Last time when we talk about Soviet Union and/or China and/or Cuba and/or Iran and/or North Korea or East Germany, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

And they deserved it, for those countries never about the human rights of their citizens, and those countries spied on their own citizens.

Nowadays, countries that are supposed to be "FREE", such as Australia, New Zealand, United Kingdom and United States are becoming more and more like those rogue states.

What the fuck has happened to the spirit of "FREEDOM" of the free world?

(ENF) Electrical Network Frequency analysis

[Anonymous Coward]

Archived @:
http://slexy.org/view/s21UWKzafS
http://hpaste.org/79175
https://paste.debian.net/plain/216145
==
The hum that helps to fight crime (ENF) Electrical Network Frequency analysis

"For the last seven years, at the Metropolitan Police forensic lab in south London, audio specialists have been continuously recording the sound of mains electricity.

It is an all pervasive hum that we normally cannot hear. But boost it a little, and a metallic and not very pleasant buzz fills the air. ...

"The power is sent out over the national grid to factories, shops and of course our homes. Normally this frequency, known as the mains frequency, is about 50Hz," explains Dr Alan Cooper, a senior digital forensic practitioner at the Met Police.

Any digital recording made anywhere near an electrical power source, be it plug socket, light or pylon, will pick up this noise and it will be embedded throughout the audio.

This buzz is an annoyance for sound engineers trying to make the highest quality recordings. But for forensic experts, it has turned out to be an invaluable tool in the fight against crime.

While the frequency of the electricity supplied by the national grid is about 50Hz, if you look at it over time, you can see minute fluctuations. ...

Comparing the unique pattern of the frequencies on an audio recording with a database that has been logging these changes for 24 hours a day, 365 days a year provides a digital watermark: a date and time stamp on the recording.

Philip Harrison, from JP French Associates, another forensic audio laboratory that has been logging the hum for several years, says: "Even if [the hum] is picked up at a very low level that you cannot hear, we can extract this information."

It is a technique known as Electric Network Frequency (ENF) analysis, and it is helping forensic scientists to separate genuine, unedited recordings from those that have been tampered with."

- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20629671
- http://cryptogon.com/?p=32789

#

Met lab claims 'biggest breakthrough since Watergate'
Power lines act as police informers

- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/01/enf_met_police/

#

Noisy, muffled, incoherent recordings are an audio engineerâ(TM)s worst nightmare, but all too often they contain vital evidence in criminal trials. Itâ(TM)s the job of the forensic audio specialist to extract that evidence.

- http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/articles/forensics.htm

#

(discussion forum) Electrical network frequency analysis, Mains frequency variations detectable in digital audio recordings?

- http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=81346

#

Met Police use electrical 'hum' to solve crimes

The Metropolitan Police is using the "hum" of background noise produced by mains electricity to help solve crimes, it has been disclosed.

- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9739037/Met-Police-use-electrical-hum-to-solve-crimes.html

#

Related Research
- http://www.ece.umd.edu/~ravig/Research.html

#

Engineers Use Electrical Hum To Fight Crime

- http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/12/12/1331243/engineers-

I'd like to report a terrorist

[thegarbz]

Dear ASIO, The only people (and I use that term loosely) currently terrorising Australia are you. Kindly take your hacking desires against lawful citizens and shove them.

CIA Head: We Will Spy On Americans Through EA's

[Anonymous Coward]

Archived @:
http://slexy.org/view/s2w3SOkgpA
http://hpaste.org/79169
https://paste.debian.net/plain/216147
===
CIA Head: We Will Spy On Americans Through Electrical Appliances

Global information surveillance grid being constructed; willing Americans embrace gadgets used to spy on them

Steve Watson | Prisonplanet.com | March 16, 2012

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cia-head-we-will-spy-on-americans-through-electrical-appliances.html

"CIA director David Petraeus has said that the rise of new "smart" gadgets means that Americans are effectively bugging their own homes, saving US spy agencies a job when it identifies any "persons of interest".

Speaking at a summit for In-Q-Tel, the CIA's technology investment operation, Petraeus made the comments when discussing new technologies which aim to add processors and web connections to previously 'dumb' home appliances such as fridges, ovens and lighting systems.

Wired reports the details via its Danger Room Blog[1]:

"'Transformational' is an overused word, but I do believe it properly applies to these technologies," Petraeus enthused, "particularly to their effect on clandestine tradecraft."

"Items of interest will be located, identified, monitored, and remotely controlled through technologies such as radio-frequency identification, sensor networks, tiny embedded servers, and energy harvesters - all connected to the next-generation internet using abundant, low-cost, and high-power computing," Petraeus said.

"the latter now going to cloud computing, in many areas greater and greater supercomputing, and, ultimately, heading to quantum computing." the CIA head added.

Petraeus also stated that such devices within the home "change our notions of secrecy".

Petraeus' comments come in the same week that one of the biggest microchip companies in the world, ARM, unveiled new processors that are designed to give practically every household appliance an internet connection[2], in order that they can be remote controlled and operate in tandem with applications.

ARM describes the concept as an "internet of things".

Where will all the information from such devices be sent and analyzed? It can be no coincidence that the NSA is currently building a monolithic heavily fortified $2 billion facility[3] deep in the Utah desert and surrounded by mountains. The facility is set to go fully live in September 2013.

"The Utah data center is the centerpiece of the Global Information Grid, a military project that will handle yottabytes of data, an amount so huge that there is no other data unit after it." reports Gizmodo.

"This center-with every listening post, spy satellite and NSA datacenter connected to it, will make the NSA the most powerful spy agency in the world."

Wired reports[4] that the incoming data is being mined by plugging into telecommunications companies' switches, essentially the same method the NSA infamously uses for warrantless wiretapping of domestic communications[5], as exposed six years ago.

Former intelligence analyst turned best selling author James Bamford, has penned a lengthy piece[6] on the NSA facility and warns "It is, in some measure, the realization of the 'total information awareness' program created during the first term of the Bush administration-an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans' privacy."

--

Steve Watson is the London based writer and editor for Alex Jones' Infowars.net[7], and Prisonplanet.com[8]. He has a Masters Degree in International Relations from the School of Politics at The University of Nottingham in England.

(C) 2012 PrisonPlanet.com is a Free Speech Systems, LLC company. All rights reserved.

[1]

Re:Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the N

[graphius]

I donâ(TM)t know about you, but I find it very curious that comedian George Carlin died of chest pains a few months after his new, scathing routine

or maybe the fact he was 80 years old, with a history of heart problems....

ASIO

[Anonymous Coward]

AH. For the good old days. Way back in the day the then Attorney-General personally led a raid on the HQ of ASIO on the grounds that he believed that ASIO had not given him full or accurate information about...yes...terrorist activity in Australia by Croatians. And this was back in the early 1970's

The kicker was that he did not consult with the Prime Minister or the Cabinet before he did it. The Government of the day had a great mistrust of Intelligence agencies

Welcome to communist Australia....

[Anonymous Coward]

Please hand over your freedoms to your nearest politician.

Sounds like...

[holophrastic]

...commandeer a vehicle. Makes sense, as long is it's obvious and understandable. I'd happily back away from some work if a big message popped up saying that they needed my machine for a while. And since they don't have a warrant to search my machine, anything they find is inadmissable I imagine? That works for me. And if it's obvious, especially if I can't use my machine concurrently, then bot-nets aren't an issue.

Re:Sounds like...

[crutchy]

as long as they don't steal your kiddie pr0n collection

Re:Sounds like...

[maxwell demon]

Or plant kiddy porn there, for convenient later use.

so... uhhh.... question!

[Anonymous Coward]

what's the difference between cops and criminals again?

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time when we talk about Soviet Union and/or China and/or Cuba and/or Iran and/or North Korea or East Germany, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

I seriously doubt that.

Translation

[russotto]

Headline: "ASIO is already breaking into third-party computers unlawfully, but is tired of covering it up."

''The purpose of this power is to allow ASIO to access the computer of suspected terrorists and other security interests,'' : "The purpose of this power is power".

''(It would be used) in extremely limited circumstances and only when explicitly approved by the Attorney-General through a warrant.": "We'll use it whenever and order several redundant sets of rubber stamps for the warrants"

'The Attorney-General's Department refused to explain yesterday how third-party computers would be used, ''as this may divulge operationally sensitive information and methods used by ASIO in sensitive national security investigations.''' : "We use them for all sorts of things no one in their right mind would approve of"

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a FISA like situation in the US. Except later on, after 9/11, they decided to scrap whatever respect they gave the Bill Of Rights and went full Kangaroo Court.

If ASIO gets this through the door, it WILL get expanded at some point in the future, and not for the better. Jut like FISA in the US!

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

good translation from Political/Legal English into English

Now my main concern would be, once a the ASIO get hold of your machine, and starts downloading copyrighted terrorist animal porn over an encrypted link, what protections would you have (from our foes - Assuming the will not admit to having compromised your internet connection, being a spies and that).

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Runaway1956]

Pal, Australia. What does the word conjure up? Think. I know you had history classes in school. Australia was a penal colony. Meaning, they were rogues before they ever got to Australia. They are EXPECTED to be rogue! Putting the words "Australia" and "rogue" in the same sentence is redundant and repetitive.

Probably

[Anonymous Coward]

Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the NWO?

Probably.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck has happened to the spirit of "FREEDOM" of the free world?
 
The UN doesn't believe in a free world. How's it feel to get fucked by the powers that be? Welcome to 1984.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

Reds under the bed, eh?

Suggestions:

[thedarb]

* Run a BSD or Linux system. - Secure it. If you don't know how to do this, do your home work.
* Use a snapshot capable filesystem, and take snapshots (ZFS / BTRFS). - You can use these to identify file that have changed.
* Use Tripwire or a clone like AIDE. - This is a second level of checking for file changes.
* Manually audit your system regularly.
* Use OS repositories from outside Australia.

And the list would not end there.

Re:Suggestions:

[Anonymous Coward]

Run a honeypot and spy on them.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly how an Australian government action morphs into a UN action isn't clear UNLESS we have yet another Jesus rode dinosaurs 6000 years ago, the earth is flat, cutting corporate taxes while increasing personal income taxes will reduce the deficit, black helicopter rightard speaking

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Yaa 101]

It got sold away under your ass...

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[CrimsonAvenger]

Last time when we talk about Soviet Union and/or China and/or Cuba and/or Iran and/or North Korea or East Germany, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

Well, technically, Iran has never been a "rouge nation". On the other hand, that's an apt description for all the communist nations...

On the other hand, if you really meant "ROGUE nation", then Iran would also fit nicely.

Why do so many supposedly educated people get "rouge" and "rogue" confused?

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Phrogman]

The Spirit of Freedom has been bought and sold to the mega-corporations and their client governments. Privacy doesn't need to be dead, but its more advantageous to the business community if it is, therefore things like this proposed legislation to "Combat Terrorism" - i.e. to combat those whom the Media Industry wants to close down and prevent from copying their copyright works.

Where have I heard this before?

[Anonymous Coward]

"You are being watched. The government has a secret system: a machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it. I designed the machine to detect acts of terror, but it sees everything. Violent crimes involving ordinary people, people like you. Crimes the government considered irrelevant. They wouldn't act, so I decided I would. But I needed a partner, someone with the skills to intervene. Hunted by the authorities, we work in secret. You'll never find us, but victim or perpetrator, if your number's up... we'll find you".

Good news

[KeensMustard]

Ever since terrorism became such a huge problem in Australia, ASIO have been unable to catch a single terrorist. So hampered were they by a lack of access to my computer, they have been unable to foil a single, credible terrorist plot. In the last decade or so, an attack by terrorists has been imminent, at any moment, I expect to be attacked by terrorists. The lack of an actual attack, the lack of any suspicion of an actual attack, the lack of any identifiable group with any plausible reason to attack, the lack of any identifiable person associated with any group planning to attack, these are simply indicators of how clever these devious, brown people are. If only someone would use my computer to hack into theirs, then Australians would know the reason for the constant stream of messages telling us to fear.

Re:Good news

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry for my ignirsnce. But who terrorizes Australia? I did not hear about it in the various news I read.

Re:Good news

[Anonymous Coward]

Insightful but not actually correct. 3 terrorist plots have been foiled in Australia since 9/11:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sydney_terrorism_plot
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Nacer_Benbrika
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holsworthy_Barracks_terror_plot

ASIO definitely had involvement in the second one, not sure about the others. I'd be more inclined to suggest that actually they are doing their job just fine with the powers they currently have.

Re:Good news

[AHuxley]

Re But who terrorizes Australia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_bombing
Our version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the word you are thinking of is "alcoholic", not "rogue".

Ermahgerd

[Anonymous Coward]

In free societies, spy agencies still do (necessary) "evil" - but they ask permission first.

and you want blood you got it

[Anonymous Coward]

to use a slightly differant little australian rock bands music lyric.

how about we on earth all hack every australian pc and see how there govt thinks about that after...

Re:Is George Carlin Dead Because He Spoke of the N

[swalve]

And a long life of drug abuse.

in other news...

[crutchy]

...ASIO computers have been hacked!

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Pf0tzenpfritz]

Brian damage, perhaps?

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Archfeld]

No, buying is a bad practice in the corporate world. It has just been co-opted by the DiscoverCard Spirit of Freedom(TM), brought to you in part by McDonald's, and by the generous donation of the Monsanto Corporation. They are "Loving It"

If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists

[kawabago]

I'd rather have terrorists.

Re:If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't agree more. I'd have to see dozens of deaths per day at the hands of "terrorists" before allowing my computer to be rooted by a government organisation even became an option. However, I suspect this is not the normal attitude.

Indeed, if we disregard advertising and assume all market participants are well-informed and rational it seems that the majority of people would pay considerably more for a pre-compromised device than a reasonably secure but otherwise roughly equivalent one. The notion of getting this feature for free and fighting terrorism is a big vote winner in my opinion.

Re:If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

You already do. Australia's local terrorist group is called ASIO.

Re:If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir sound like a terrorist!

Re:If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

At that point, you already do. Domestic enemies...?

Re:If you need hack my computer to stop terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather the real terrorists weren't using our tax dollars.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[TheGratefulNet]

freedom was ok when there weren't so many things the folks in charge could invade and bug or tap.

but now, there is so much out there to bug and snoop on, well, you can't blame a kid for being hungry in a candy store, can you?

THEY WANT IT!

and they have most of the power to do whatever they want. in fact, 'asking' is just a formality, these days. if you are on a network, folks in charge think they have a right to your data.

THIS is the brave new world. huxley had zero idea about what the real future was going to be like.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[TheGratefulNet]

...got to keep the loonies on the path.

(and that means, you and me!)

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[stymy]

It sounds like you need to brush up on your own history classes -- unless they were in the US, in which cases they made some important omissions. Such as the fact that England started shipping its inmates to Australia only after the American Revolution made them lose their favorite penal colony. Prior to then, many punishments for criminals consisted of them having to spend several years or their whole lives in the US.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[ikarys]

"ROUGE"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

im from ASIO

[strack]

im from ASIO, and theres a terrorist in your vagina. and i have to catch it with my penis.

Re:im from ASIO

[Anonymous Coward]

But I don't have a vagina.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

It died in September 2011.

That was the day the intelligence world decided that ANYTHING was permissable in the 'fight against terrorism'.

No blood or treasure was too much, no budget could be refused, no cost benefit analysis was necessary, no rights or priveliges for the public, no freedsoms and no rights to privacy .... nothing was to get in the way of the War. And then other interests piggy backed on the intelligence community. The copyright and IP industry, the music and movie industries, various sectrors of the economy undergoing stress etc etc ...

And Joe Public went along with it. He was a willing stooge.

Getting all those freedoms, rights and privileges back will probably be a centuries long struggle - but I've basically written all those rights and privileges off.

Naomi Klein has the right of it.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Runaway1956]

But, of course! Why do you think the 2nd amendment is so important to us? It's important that all us criminals can defend ourselves from each other! Not to mention that we don't want the warden or his gang to come back!

Revolutions are comparatively straightforward

[Anonymous Coward]

As satisfying as it may be to put the boot into your oppressors, in order to run a nation you need to start with a plan and execute a million details. The "good guys" typically stop at quotable twaddle about the dignity of man and some heroic defiance. It's only the "bad guys" who have carefully considered world domination plans.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[dryeo]

Well rouge is the colour of political parties that preach one thing while doing the opposite, usually making things free for the common person while concentrating power in the powerful. Of course most political parties are doing that.
I see that your user name is a synonym for the rouge avenger :)

I broadly agree but there are flaws with that

[Anonymous Coward]

Specifically, if you like tits and bums, you inevitably see the occasional underaged picture whether you like it or not. Technically this is a career destroying crime. ASIO used this specific scenario to destroy someone I know who was silly enough to use his position as in the Northern Territory bureacracy to annoy them for personal entertainment. I warned him they were well set up to hurt him if they ran out of patience, and eventually they did. OK, I don't actually know it was ASIO but they had both opportunity and motivation at the time of the incident. I have a transcript of the trial, and although it is obvious the judge accepted that he was not into kiddie porn (0 day sentence, no monitoring) nevertheless a conviction was recorded and he lost a senior position and has been unemployed since 2001.

While I doubt ASIO would deliberately compromise an unknowing informer network, sooner or later some do-gooder will think of piggybacking automated sniffing onto sanctioned intrusions, and the legislation will pass easily because it contains the magic phrase "protect the children". Struth, just listening to my own tale I have a sudden urge to purge, because although I find the whole kiddie porn thing repellent, saying urgh and hitting the back button will still leave a copy of an illegal file in a cache, and that's enough to get you convicted if someone finds it. These laws are draconian and unassailably politically correct.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

Freedom is a concept that must be fought for and protected. Much to many people that live in countries where "Freedom" is given to them as a right take that fact for advantace and feel that it should just be handed to them on a silver platter.

Freedom must be something that is strengthened, protected, defended and fought for, not take for granted, which causes it to weaken adn depreciate.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[maxwell demon]

Last time when we talk about Soviet Union and/or China and/or Cuba and/or Iran and/or North Korea or East Germany, or any of those countries we used words like "ROUGE COUNTRIES" to describe them.

I seriously doubt that.

Well, Iran was certainly not considered red, but the other countries clearly were.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[maxwell demon]

It sounds like you need to brush up on your own history classes -- unless they were in the US, in which cases they made some important omissions. Such as the fact that England started shipping its inmates to Australia only after the American Revolution made them lose their favorite penal colony. Prior to then, many punishments for criminals consisted of them having to spend several years or their whole lives in the US.

Prior to then, the US didn't yet exist. So England may have sent their criminals to America, but certainly not to the US.

we dont need you to handle terrorist

[Anonymous Coward]

we can just leave a trail to run to you as a bait, and they will come to talk to you, so then we will be there to handle it.

but if we get tired of waiting at your door step, dont worry, you won't know it was coming. you can relax.

Being seen as a 'front' for an intelligence agency

[D4C5CE]

...may conceivably spell doom for some of the innocent (but possibly identifiable) "third parties" implicated by remote control without their consent or knowledge.

Shouldn't our taxes at least buy us the due diligence of authorities to consider the most obvious and grave dangers before trying to get such plans implemented?

The Eternal Jew is behind this, as always...

[Anonymous Coward]

... can't have those damn 'cattle' finding out that they are being controlled by Jews, can we! Let's spy on everything they do, take away their right to free speech, and put any of them who speak out, in prison. Brendan O'Connell, for example.

www.jewishproblem.com

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[snero3]

Prior to then, many punishments for criminals consisted of them having to spend several years or their whole lives in the US.

Don't tell the Yanks but that is still the case!!

ASIO's new mission

[Anonymous Coward]

Defending tyranny from freedom.

I think I know how this will work out...

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Identify political agitator, Julian Assange, etc.
2. Lawfully access agitator's computer in order to target the scapegoat of the month
3. While in agitator's computer "find" something illegal
4. Never have to deal with criticism again.

Totally wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, this is really bad, what a terrible idea. This will go badly for them in so many ways:
  - Legal consequences are endless; this is the verge of thought police, I mean to have and inspect someone's computer is to really be in their head in a sense.
  - Rabbit hole investigations where there is no crime
  - Abuse of the network put in place by 3rd party, hack ASIO... and of course "insider attack"

Fascinating that they don't think implementing it is actually a problem.

How far is too far?

[uvajed_ekil]

Citizens the world over have voluntarily given up numerous freedoms and control of parts of their lives in order to maintain security against enemies. How far is too far? Should we do every single thing possible, giving up all privacy, allowing our governments to take away our freedom, to stop [most] terrorists? If it causes you to alter the way you live your life, doesn't that mean the terrorists are winning? You've got to draw a line somewhere and stick to it, rather than continually moving it back, little by little forever. In this case I really hope Australians stand up to their government and say "no" to them greasing an already slippery slope. Protection at all costs is far too expensive, so find another way, I'd tell them.

Godwin

[Nefarious Wheel]

I'd like to amend Godwin's Law to include any mention of Tony Abbott.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that we don't want the warden or his gang to come back!

When it comes to a competition between the warden and his gang and the 2nd amendment powered citizen the result is is sadly predictable. Search up 'Mt Carmel, Waco TX'

OTHO, it's probably a good idea for the citizenry pro-actively to protect themselves from each other.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Jimbob The Mighty]

Rouge? Nah, that's just sunburn, mate.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

It's what he puts on right after the wig before going out for a Saturday night in Darlo.

I'm infected by ASIO what do I do now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unsolicitied Advice to Australians...move to New Zeland now while you still can. Your whole country is turning into California at an alarming clip lads.. so sad..

Qubes OS

[Burz]

This looks interesting: http://qubes-os.org/

Its based on Linux and uses some newer virtualization features in CPUs to increase system security, and is able to enforce (and represent) security context in the GUI. They even tout a feature (anti-Evil Maid) that foils attackers with physical access (though they say nothing is perfect).

They say that garden variety VMs like VirtualBox and VMware increase security to some extent, but that they were mainly designed to make computing more convenient and efficient (i.e. they are not the most secure usage of virtualization technology). Qubes seems to have the goal of making high security convenient, so I will surely be trying this out soon.

Not to ASIO

[Occams]

ASIO is not a law enforcement agency. It does not collect evidence or catch offenders. Its role is to asvise the AUS govt on threats to national security. It only collects intelligence, which nay not always be reliable because that is the nature of intelligence. ASIO is not capable of collecting evidence that can be used in court. This kind,of privacy intrusion should be done by a properly disciplined police service acting under a warrant. In AUS that means the Australian Federal Police. If it is necessary, give the AFP the power to do this as a Service to ASIO.

Re:What happened to the "free" of the "Free World"

[Anonymous Coward]

Pal, Australia. What does the word conjure up? Think. I know you had history classes in school. Australia was a penal colony. Meaning, they were alcoholics before they ever got to Australia. They are EXPECTED to be alcoholic! Putting the words "Australia" and "alcoholic" in the same sentence is redundant and repetitive.

Yeah, you're right, that works way better.

Just who the hell does the ASIO think they are?!

[DirtyLiar]

The CIA?