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Samsung Won't Release Windows RT Tablet In US

Posted by samzenpus on from the not-for-you dept.

New submitter sandoval88419 writes "During CES the U.S. head of Samsung Tablet business announced they won't release Windows RT devices in the U.S. Explanations are low demand, heavy investment to educate the consumer on the differences between windows RT and 8 and more importantly the effort to keep a low retail price with the Microsoft offering. "

46 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. No big loss by colinrichardday · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not that I wanted Windows RT

    1. Re:No big loss by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This makes complete sense.

      Why should Samsung expend resources to push a platform that will likely have the third best market share in Mobile OSes. They need to concentrate on keeping Android the best mobile platform.

    2. Re:No big loss by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Arguably, this is not true. Samsung has a vested interest in being the brand consumers associate with mobile products; the more they build up any one OS, the less their individual brand grows. They need to balance the risk that Google poses with Motorola with their association with Android.

      However, Microsoft doesn't offer them any improvement over developing their own platform, since they can't create a Samsung "look and feel" on that platform.

    3. Re:No big loss by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually its such a failwhale I seriously doubt it'll even get third, more likely a distant fourth. first will be either iOS or Android 4, next will be the one of those two who doesn't have the top spot that week, followed by Android 2.x which while starting to finally die out still has a pretty good share, and finally MSFT WinRT. Honestly if you count the Symbian units still being sold most likely MSFT would make fifth since the sales of Surface are so bad they had to cut their order in half and it looks like they sold less than a million units for the fourth quarter, that is just terrible numbers.

      Seriously how many negative indicators is it gonna take for the board to put down the crack pipe and fire the Ballmernator? The man has wasted something like 40 BILLION in the past 6 years on failed ventures, his few successes certainly haven't even wiped all the red ink from his bad moves, much less made a profit, honestly they would have had a better return with no strategy at all, just putting the money into T-Bills or blue chip stocks. When even Forbes is calling the 00s "MSFT's lost decade" and naming the Ballmernator worst CEO, how much more proof do you really need? the man is an unmitigated disaster and I bet if you compared how much money the Pepsi guy lost for Apple with what Ballmer has blown on harebrained ideas like Zune, Kin, Sidekick, Bing, etc Ballmer would make the Pepsi guy look like Steve jobs, he is THAT bad.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    4. Re:No big loss by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am sure they will sell Windows tablets just not Windows RT tablets.

      You got to look at it this way. Windows RT exists only as a way for Microsoft to be price competitive and hopefully squeeze Android out without being seen as cannibalizing their higher priced higher margin product Windows. Microsoft biggest fear is droid or some Linux variant successfully moving "up market" and being sold on anyone's top line hardware because if the market place embraces it well, the value of the Windows property declines sharply.

      Samsung lives with this reality.

      They have customers who *need* windows for compatibility reasons, a large portion of those would not be served by WinRT anyway.
      They have successful Android product lines they have already done the startup investment in so margin is higher
      The "tablet PC" space were Windows (proper) lives from a cost of production standpoint is likely going down while prices remain much higher than the "tablet" space.

      All sinking money into Windows RT would do is eat into their Droid products market. Their is no reason to do it.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    5. Re:No big loss by Tridus · · Score: 2

      Given that Samsung is going to be pushing Tizen, the gospel that Windows will be third "because it's Microsoft" is really pushing it. It's a non-factor right now.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    6. Re:No big loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except RIM has been on the decline for some time now, while windows phone has been growing. Take a look at Gartner's quarterly unit sales over the past year. BB10 still isn't out, and if it reversed rims fortune at all, will take many months to do so.

      Except RIM still holds about 11% of NA marketshare compared to about 2% for Windows Phone. And as we've seen Windows Phone isn't exactly growing.

  2. I heard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I heard they'd cost an ARM and a leg...

  3. interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Funny the Slashdot community skipped right over the news Microsoft sold 60 million licenses so far. this place really is the fox news of tech.

    1. Re:interesting... by sribe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Funny the Slashdot community skipped right over the news Microsoft sold 60 million licenses so far. this place really is the fox news of tech.

      Because:

      1) That's actually a low rate for Windows adoption;

      2) More importantly, it provides no information at all on sales of Windows RT tablets.

    2. Re:interesting... by Kenshin · · Score: 4, Informative

      How many of those licences are installed on computers currently sitting in warehouses and on the shelves at Best Buy? They're in the channel (on all new PCs, whether people want it or not), not necessarily in the end user's hands.

      --

      Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    3. Re:interesting... by Missing.Matter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't that the same argument that was made when they sold 40M? Presumably, if there were still 40M licenses sitting on shelves, OEMs wouldn't buy 20M more to further sit on shelves.

      OEMs try to keep as little inventory as possible. They only buy as many as they think they can sell. So how many exactly are in consumer's hands? Less than 60M and more than you care to admit.

    4. Re:interesting... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A better statistic would be to find out what percentage of new PC purchasers would pay a bit more for a Windows 7 downgrade.

      C'mon, Microsoft. We dare you to make that offer. The statistics would be helpful, even to you.

    5. Re:interesting... by ClaraBow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And Windows 8 licenses are NOT Windows RT licenses! This confusion between the two different operation systems is really going to bite MS at some point!

    6. Re:interesting... by Cinder6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mandatory corporate upgrade? I haven't heard of any corporations that are moving all of their users to Windows 8, but I guess they may exist. It's my understanding that corps like to wait it out and make sure that everything works before moving over (thus why many are only now moving to Windows 7).

      For myself, I bought Windows 8 because it was less than a third of the cost of Windows 7, and Internet hyperbole aside, it behaves basically the same way as Windows 7 in all the ways that actually matter. I actually prefer it over 7 (if you care enough to know why, it's in my posting history...somewhere...).

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    7. Re:interesting... by Tridus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because of the large numbers of those that are immediately downgraded back to 7 by corporate customers?

      8's actual usage is pathetic.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    8. Re:interesting... by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      All the ones I heard from (including at my own employer) say "Windows 8: No way until MS provides the old UI or an emulation."

      Nobody is going to retrain the entire workforce and face their wrath.

      --
      thegodmovie.com - watch it
    9. Re:interesting... by Swampash · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or put another way

      Windows 8 Usage Sinks Below Vista Levels
      Windows 7 had more than 10 times the usage at this point in its lifecycle

      http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+8+Usage+Sinks+Below+Vista+Levels/article29546.htm

    10. Re:interesting... by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      ...Microsoft sold 60 million licenses so far. this place really is the fox news of tech.

      Stuffed down the throats of hapless consumers who don't want them, more like it. The number of dazed, confused people not buying computers in the Windows 8 aisle at Frys the other day was truly epic.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    11. Re:interesting... by Elbart · · Score: 2

      "It is exactly the same as Windows 7 in same time after launch." This would be a valid comparison, if Windows 7 had been sold for 30 bucks in the first two months, too. But it wasn't. It was sold at full price, except for a very short (a couple of hours), very limited sale (couple thousand licenses) on Amazon, I think.

  4. No surprise by blind+biker · · Score: 5, Informative

    You don't become the leading smartphone manufacturer by being a sucker.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  5. Poor naming by EdZ · · Score: 3, Informative

    heavy investment to educate the consumer on the differences between windows RT and 8

    I still think it was an absurdly foolish decision not to make Windows 8 and Windows RT obviously and distinctly separate products. Call it Windows Tablet or something. Even for people who do know the difference (8 = 7 with a wider start menu, RT = locked down tablet OS), you often need to drill down to the 'tech specs' page when looking at tablets in order to tell whether it has a useful OS or not.

    1. Re:Poor naming by DMiax · · Score: 5, Funny

      you often need to drill down to the 'tech specs' page when looking at tablets in order to tell whether it has a useful OS or not.

      Can't you just check if it says "Windows" on the cover?

    2. Re:Poor naming by bfandreas · · Score: 2

      Yep. This is beyond idiotic.

      When I buy a device that's running Windows I want to be able to run the stuff on it I already own. I'm not interested in repurchasing everything again.
      It is a completely separate eco system. And I'm already invested in Android.

      Also reviews and product tech specs are often done so lazily you can't even be sure which one of these are running on the device. I predict lots of returns by confused customers.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    3. Re:Poor naming by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      How many of your Android tablet apps will run on your desktop/laptop?

      My desktop and laptop don't run Android.

      Every Windows RT app that I've bought works on both my Surface RT and my two Windows 8 machines.

      Yeah, great.

      Out in the real world, we don't buy a new version of Windows (sorry, I guess it's Window now since it's all designed for full-screen apps) so we can run new apps on an old version of Window, we buy a new version of Window to run old apps from old versions of Window and DOS on the new one. If those apps don't run, there's no reason to pick Window over a more robust and user-friendly operating system.

      Microsoft astroturfing is really getting lame.

  6. Re:Not clear? by Iceykitsune · · Score: 2

    Thunk about the non tech-savy people.
    "What do you mean it's not Windows 8? It looks the same!"

    --
    GENERATION 24: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
  7. Re:Not clear? by bfandreas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Windows RT is anything but clear

    I'm actually interested in a Tablet PC ecause I'd ike to run windows binaries on that form factor without recompiling myself. Which I can't.
    But every tablet device is advertised and reviewed so lazily that it is hard to tell if it is runing Windows 8 or RT. RT is a whole new eco system to invest in. Currently I'm running Android, Windows and Linux. I do not want another OS in my life.

    This RT/non RT thing will confuse people for another few years. How would you market a 10" super thin tablet with 8hrs+ battery life and x86 architecture running Windows 8? How would you distinguish it from the hordes of Windows RT devices?

    The name "Windows" has become diluted beyond belief. This has to be the most bone-headed marketing move ever.

    --
    20 minutes into the future
  8. Tell your parents that Win8 won't Win8 programs by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Grandma bought Microsoft Office and it says right on the box "designed for Windows 8". She bought a Windows 8 machine from you. Explain to grandma how she didn't just get ripped off. Remember she has no clue what "x86" is.
    Further, explain to ANYONE why they should spend $400 on a WinRT tablet that's less functional than a $180 Android tablet.

    1. Re:Tell your parents that Win8 won't Win8 programs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Grandma can take Microsoft Office back for a refund because it is already included in RT

    2. Re:Tell your parents that Win8 won't Win8 programs by DavidD_CA · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that Windows RT comes with Microsoft Office, for free, already installed.

      I get your point, though. But the same argument can be made for so many other things.

      Grandma bought $app (for Mac OS) because she has an iPad and knows that it's made by Apple.

      Grandma bought $app for her Android (v1.23) tablet because she knows that it runs Android. Except it is only supported on v4.56.

      Yes, there is a lot of confusion in the marketplace. But Microsoft does not have the monopoly on it.

      --
      -David
    3. Re:Tell your parents that Win8 won't Win8 programs by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      Except that Windows RT comes with Microsoft Office, for free, already installed.

      First of all it's not the full functional Office that you would expect. It is Office for RT which has reduced functionality which is somewhat understandable given the difference in UI and architecture.

      Grandma bought $app (for Mac OS) because she has an iPad and knows that it's made by Apple.

      Apple clearly distinguishes iOS and OS X. There are separate app stores for both. MS has blurred the lines with Win 8/RT. This has the same makings of the Vista Ready/Capable disaster. It is rather impossible for her to install an OS X app on her iPad and vice versa.

      Grandma bought $app for her Android (v1.23) tablet because she knows that it runs Android. Except it is only supported on v4.56.

      Not the same. This goes beyond a version problem. Windows RT cannot run legacy x86 apps not that newer RT programs won't run on an older OS. There are no legacy apps for RT. Microsoft should not have named it "Windows" at all to avoid the confusion. That's the point.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re:Tell your parents that Win8 won't Win8 programs by swillden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Grandma bought $app for her Android (v1.23) tablet because she knows that it runs Android. Except it is only supported on v4.56.

      Then she didn't buy it from the Google Play store or any other decent Android app store. They check compatibility.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:Tell your parents that Win8 won't Win8 programs by Missing.Matter · · Score: 2

      Jobs never said that iPhone ran OS X.

      Jobs said exactly this at the original iPhone keynote, to tech journalists and Apple customers (the only people who watched that sort of thing in those days). Not just developers. Developers weren't even allowed on iPhone back then, so I don't know how you remember that it was specifically targeted toward developers. From the keynote:

      iPhone runs OS X! Why would we want to run such a sophisticated OS on a mobile device? It's got everything we need. Multitasking, networking, power management, graphics, security, video, audio, core animation... It let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the crippled stuff you find on most phones. These are real desktop applications.

      Emphasis mine. He unequivocally stated iPhone runs OSX. This was further emphasized on Apple's website under the original iPhone product page, which I think you will agree is targeting consumers, not developers:

      iPhone uses OS X, the world’s most advanced operating system. Which means you have access to the best-ever software on a handheld device, including rich HTML email, full-featured web browsing, and favorite applications including Address Book and Calendar. iPhone is also fully multi-tasking, so you can read a web page while downloading your email in the background. This software completely redefines what you can do with a mobile phone

      Emphasis mine. So again, from the start, Apple was saying iPhone OS = OSX. Then they went back and changed a single letter, calling it iOS. My girlfriend still gets confused about the difference. So I'm not saying Windows 8 vs. Windows RT isn't confusing, but I think it's a leap to say iOS vs. OSX is crystal clear.

  9. Don't put new wine into old wineskins by Marcion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Until very recently computing has all been utilising the benefits of this year's more powerful and more resource hungry x86 processor. Relatively cheap laptops are more powerful than supercomputers 15 years ago but the user experience is not particularly more responsive because software gets increasingly bloated.

    ARM devices are really a different proposition, on the plus side they have no moving parts and a long battery life, however they are a very different architecture to x86, and making the OS perform well requires lots of differences. Linux (and therefore android too) was always built to be a modular system and one thing it does well is support different platforms with many compatible but swappable components at every level. The world's top supercomputers and the £25 Raspberry Pi both happily run Linux.

    Windows is very different. It is a set of very tightly integrated libraries, which has its benefits, but they all need to be scaled down to work on ARM, you cannot just swap out some resource hungry component for some open source project because the system is so interdependent. Scaling down software is much harder than scaling it up.

    Therefore I am not suprised that Samsung found Windows' ARM version slow and resource hungry. Just because Windows dominated the x86 era, it does not mean it will be suitable for the new and disruptive ARM age.

    --
    My little Linux and tech blog
    1. Re:Don't put new wine into old wineskins by dimeglio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      During the last 10 years, there was this ghz race. Processors were built with inefficiencies (power consumption) over raw power and time to market. With the (re)birth of ARM, Intel likely came to realize that raw power might not work for everyone. So they are now engineering their flagship processors the way they should have in the first place.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    2. Re:Don't put new wine into old wineskins by fermion · · Score: 3, Insightful
      My intel I7 computer has no moving parts. And it can run in 128 GB of mass storage. Three years ago it ran on 64GB.

      Windows has lot of bulk, some might call it bloat. As a result it does not lend itself so much to a solid state device, which is where computers have heading for 50 years.

      The mistake that Windows has made it to label both these devices WIndows. Apple labeled their legacy OS Mac OS X and their tablet OS iOS. The consumer is going to see these as separate devices.

      Some of the problems are going to unavoidable, like the netbook. People are going to be looking for a cheap computer, and then complain that it does not run windows, and demand a return. But other problems are avoidable.

      I am sure that some of the problem is that MS is playing the money game, like it has done with Windows for a long time. Supply an arbitrarily limited OS that can be sold on inexpensive computers. Then they demand additional monies to unlock the full feature set of the WIndows OS.

      And we have seen this hardware issue with MS Vista. Contemporary computers being sold as MS Vista ready. when they weren't. MS has put themselves in the position in which consumers assume that every computer sold today is going to be able run the MS Windows sold today, and the OEM is going be held responsible if it doesn't. Does it surprise anyone if Samsung does not want to deal with the consumer backlash.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    3. Re:Don't put new wine into old wineskins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Windows is very different. It is a set of very tightly integrated libraries, which has its benefits, but they all need to be scaled down to work on ARM, you cannot just swap out some resource hungry component for some open source project because the system is so interdependent. Scaling down software is much harder than scaling it up.

      I am not a fan of WinRT and some of the decisions made, but this is total bullshit.

      With every year that passes, there is more and more distance between the performance of current machines (even ARM ones) and the performance of those that Windows NT ran smoothly on when it was first introduced in 1993. The performance of the base operating system and its core user mode components on low-end hardware is not the problem. The problem is the shitty, incomplete, half-baked tiled thingy they put on top of it, and the decision to cripple its available APIs in a feeble attempt to copy Apple's iOS brain damage. That part was produced in 3 years by some not very capable people. (I used to work at MS and I know some of them.)

    4. Re:Don't put new wine into old wineskins by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      There was never a problem with netbooks other than that manufacturers faced very low profits after MS forced them to put Windows on them, which didn't run well on the weak hardware.

      With a lean distro an Atom has sufficient power to run all your typical applications like email, browsing, word processing and spreadsheets that aren't humongous. The only problem is with video, which isn't accelerated due to the proprietary PowerVR drivers.

      Those systems are still very viable - they're just called Chromebooks today and are more powerful than ever at the $200 price point. See e.g. this one with a Sandy Bridge Celeron: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215914

      --
      thegodmovie.com - watch it
  10. Why would Samsung release RT elsewhere either? by unixisc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, aside from the US, why would Samsung even do an RT tablet anywhere, when they have one of the most successful Android products in both the Galaxy phone & the Galaxy tab?

    If they wanted, it might make sense for them to do an Atom/Fusion based Windows 8 tablet, and that would probably be the only good platform for Windows 8 in that it will be able to run Wintel apps as well.

    Windows RT will be an even bigger fiasco than either Windows NT on RISC (Alpha, MIPS) or Windows Server 2008 on Itanium ever was.

  11. Re:Those are OEM sales by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Informative

    OEM buys the licenses beforehand.

    All MS has to do is say "Ok, instead of having 1 months supply of Windows 8 licenses I need you to buy 5 months ahead of time!"

    Then MS releases a press release saying "OMG DEMAND FOR WINDOWS 8 WENT UP 500%!" Intentionally, exgerated of course but that is my point. We all know the accounting tricks of Vista numbers where people and businesses bought them but wiped them and downgraded to XP.

    Online website counters are the real way to predict adoption. If anyone is interested in the real number of people *actually using* windows 8 click here from statcounter who checks millions of websites each day? Windows 8 was 2% the last I looked. In comparison Windows 7 jumped 3x more in the same time period 3 years ago!

    In otherwords it is a dud.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
  12. Dumping by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you dump mass licenses of W8 to OEMs with W7 downgrade rights this is going to happen. They save up millions of licenses and bring down their costs - they have to to remain competitive. But this has nothing to do with which version of the software gets delivered to the customer, nor how popular it is.

    Go to dell.com or HP.com and look at their premium desktops. Windows 7 gets top billing still and Windows 8 is an option. In HP's case there are more preconfigured options with SUSE Linux than Windows 8. In Dell's case not one system comes with Windows 8 by default.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  13. "third best market share in Mobile OSes" - no way by CdBee · · Score: 2

    Pretty sure it'd be at best 5th. RIM and Symbian might be dying but WinRT was stillborn

    --
    I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
  14. Re:Not clear? by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Informative

    You don't buy something for your Macbook and expect it to run on your iPhone "because it's all Apple, look, it's similar"

    iOS and OSX look completely different.

    You don't buy something for Android and expect it to run on your Linux desktop "because it's all Linux underneath, right?"

    I've never seen a Linux distro with an Android-like UI out of the box. The closest I've seen are the tablet UI's for KDE or Enlightenment e17, but neither of those are enabled out of the box, either, and it'd be difficult to mistake either one for Android even if they were.

    You don't buy something for your Windows 8 desktop and expect it to run on your Windows tablet. IMHO, Microsoft has the advantage in that it's going to deliver a tablet with actually Windows 8 x86 capable of running those apps "grandma bought".

    Oh wait. I can't make the same argument, here. The two UI's are virtually identical in this case.

    You're not thinking like a user.

  15. Re:Not clear? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought it was clear enough that Windows RT is to be the Windows version for ARM tablet devices that will compete directly with iPad and Android tablets..

    End users don't grok these differences that seem obvious to you and to me. Here's a snippet of conversation I've had multiple times:

    User: I've been thinking about switching to Mac.

    Me: I really like my Mac, but you need to think about how you use your computer. Do you have any Windows-specific software you need to run?

    (Clarification about what that means)

    User: Yeah I've got Program X that I need for my work.

    Me: That wont run on a Mac. There may be Mac-based alternatives, or you could probably buy virtualization software and run it that way.

    User: Why does a Mac need different software? ...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  16. Ass Backwards by xigxag · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Microsoft is releasing their new Surface devices in the wrong order. Instead of bringing RT devices to market, and then Windows 8, they should've ONLY released full Windows 8 devices, let people become familiar with the dual paradigm, waited for the app store to fill up nicely, THEN came out with the RT devices, which would be much more appealing if they had plenty of software available, and if people were already accustomed to getting things done in RT mode.

    As things are now, RT has been tainted, possibly irreparably. Maybe it could be saved if it had the ability to run Windows Phone 8 apps. Why that was not part of the plan seems like a huge failure to me.

    --
    There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
  17. Re:Not clear? by Patch86 · · Score: 2

    You don't buy something for your Macbook and expect it to run on your iPhone "because it's all Apple, look, it's similar"

    Apple's two products look and function completely differently. The interface is different, the layout is different, the visual styling is different. They also have a completely different naming scheme- "Apple Mac" for the Mac OSX ones, "Apple i[Name]" for the iOS ones.

    You don't buy something for Android and expect it to run on your Linux desktop "because it's all Linux underneath, right?"

    Linux is just the kernel. Android is not the same as, say, Ubuntu. They're called different things. They look different. They're marketed differently. Android doesn't even use the word "Linux" in their marketing. Everything about them is different, except for the kernel (and only geeks would know that).

    Windows 8 and Windows RT look identical. The interface is identical. They were launched at the same time. The branding is identical (apart from the suffix of the name). In the case of the Microsoft Surface, the hardware looks identical and the name is the same.

    Can you see how there would be a difference?