Slashdot Mirror


Aaron's Law: Violating a Site's ToS Should Not Land You in Jail

Freddybear writes "Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren proposes a change to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) which would remove the felony criminal penalty for violating the terms of service of a website and return it to the realm of contract law where it belongs. This would eliminate the potential for prosecutors to abuse the CFAA in pursuit of criminal convictions for simple violations of a website's terms of service."

246 comments

  1. Depends on... by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the violation of ToS is due to an illegal action like posting things that are illegal both for the location of the site and the poster it should still land into the legal system, but the large volume of ToS violations should at most render the offender a permanent banning from that site or in milder cases a temporary ban.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    1. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      If something is illegal in it's own right, then it still remains illegal, even if it also happens to be a violation of the ToS.

    2. Re:Depends on... by SampleFish · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It doesn't depend on anything like that. If you broke a law in your land that is the law that applies. It doesn't matter if the TOS includes reference to a law. The TOS cannot change a law and should have no legal authority.

    3. Re:Depends on... by Capsaicin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the violation of ToS is due to an illegal action like posting things that are illegal both for the location of the site and the poster it should still land into the legal system.

      Say what?!

      No one is talking about removing ToS violations from the legal system. Rather the idea is that a breach of contract (such as violating a ToS) be dealt with under contract law, where imprisonment is unavailable as a remedy. While the mere breach of contractual terms would no longer be a crime in its own right, any crimes committed in effecting or pursuant to such a breach they would still be dealt with by the criminal justice system. Obviously.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    4. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is more along the lines of a sites ToS stating "You shall not offend anyone for any reason"
      This is justification for being banned from the site, NOT justification for going to prison.

      Currently, it is a federal crime to "offend someone for any reason" if that is listed in the sites ToS. Or to put it another way, all I have to do is claim your statement offends me and oops you just committed a felony.
      This change is simply trying to remove that insanity.

    5. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No. The ToS violation still shouldn't land you in jail, it should be the illegal action that lands you in jail. The fact that you also violated a ToS shouldn't add to your sentence.

    6. Re:Depends on... by chrismcb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It shouldn't depend on anything. If you are doing something illegal, like posting things that are illegal, then you should land in the legal system. No MATTER what the TOS is. In this case, it shouldn't matter that you broke the TOS (other than maybe the site banning you),
      But if you do something that is legal (like say give your password to your spouse) but is against the TOS, that should NOT land you in the legal system. Any more than any other breach of contract. Seems like a big case of "DUH" to me.

    7. Re:Depends on... by Cryacin · · Score: 2, Funny

      What is it with all the 's laws that are coming out?

      I have one. Handicapped parking should be called Sheldon's law... "You're in my spot"

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    8. Re:Depends on... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "It doesn't depend on anything like that. If you broke a law in your land that is the law that applies. It doesn't matter if the TOS includes reference to a law. The TOS cannot change a law and should have no legal authority."

      But that is exactly the issue here. Because the law as enacted was rather vague, some prosecutors have been claiming that violation of TOS means violation of the CFAA law... regardless of the fact that a TOS can vary widely from company to company or site to site.

      If so, that would mean, in effect, that a company (or just website) could write its own law by just putting it in the TOS... which is absolutely contrary to our customary legal principles and concept of justice here in the U.S.

      THAT is why we want it changed, and clarified.

    9. Re:Depends on... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Seems like a big case of "DUH" to me."

      Tell it to the prosecutors, because some of them don't seem to understand that.

    10. Re:Depends on... by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the violation of ToS is due to an illegal action like posting things that are illegal both for the location of the site and the poster it should still land into the legal system, but the large volume of ToS violations should at most render the offender a permanent banning from that site or in milder cases a temporary ban.

      Evading the ban, or continuing to access the site after ordered not to, by the owner, should land you in jail :)

    11. Re:Depends on... by shentino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's like going to a restaurant.

      By default everyone is welcome.

      Now the management can kick you out for any reason they want, for violating rules (and techinically even if you don't)

      And unless/until that happens you're welcome.

      If you go back, however, it's trespassing.

    12. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right, this is more like when someone does something that may be repugnant but not technically illegal like create fake accounts on a message board to harass your kid's ex. What is happening is some prosecutors were trying to claim the violations of the TOS was a violation of criminal law even though they were the only violation of law. Moving it back to contract law means they can't find wording in a private document (the TOS) that construes a criminal violation when things like this happen.

    13. Re:Depends on... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2, Funny
      My website is my sovereign territory, and I can make the laws on it any how I wish. I can baptise children and mary adults any time I choose.

      -- just so long as the server is in international waters and outside any country's territorial limit!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    14. Re:Depends on... by Swampash · · Score: 2

      No, that's not the way it works. It's "if you broke a law in your land or if you didn't but what you did was still against the law in the USA, even if that's not where you were".

    15. Re:Depends on... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Funny

      For that jaded Grammar Nazi who thinks he's seen it all...

      What is it with all the 's laws...

      *looks for something dull and rusty to gouge eyes out with*

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    16. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did this get modded insightful?

    17. Re:Depends on... by jonbryce · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In the UK for example, it is illegal to access a computer system without the owner's permission. You could argue that the TOS set out the terms under which the owner is prepared to give permission to access their system, and if you violate them, you don't have permission to access the site, and are therefore breaking the law. I guess it is much the same in the US.

      How do you deal with that? How do you draw the line between a website that is clearly open to the public and an intranet site that is only open to selected people?

    18. Re:Depends on... by anagama · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why? I mean seriously why does everything in America have to involve jail. Do you really think that makes us safer? Eventually somebody will do the math -- 35 years for TOS violations, 15 for rape -- and figure that rape looks like a better deal. You know, if your going to do the time, might as well do a crime to fit it. And that ultimately makes us all less safe. That's the problem with Americans' draconian attitudes.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    19. Re:Depends on... by anagama · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And just how much time could you be threatened with for that real world trespass? Days -- maybe a month or two at most. But apparently for digital trespass, the correct measure is virtually the rest of your life apparently.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    20. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, those things are already illegal, there's no reason to add violating the ToS on top of that other than to force people to plea bargain.

    21. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't fix stupid.

    22. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the 's bills

      Like "Bruiser's Bill", to name one

    23. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Google? Is that you?

      *waves*

    24. Re:Depends on... by sjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It should be fairly amusing to see you attempt to extradite people who violate your TOS.

    25. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I guess that's like cole'slaws, or some other cabbage/salad-based concoction.

    26. Re:Depends on... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ToS aren't even a viable contract IMHO. No-one reads them, if you edit them the web site rarely bothers to check before accepting your terms and quite often the terms are unenforceable anyway.

      We need to move to a system of standard ToS and EULA agreements defined in law that a web site or software vendor can apply to their products. That way we only have to deal with a handful of licenses which are known to be reasonable and will stand up in court.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    27. Re:Depends on... by Threni · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? It's a website. Obviously they can't shelter you from the rule of the law - that's ridiculous and no-one's suggesting it. It's only slightly more ridiculous than suggesting that Slashdot can create laws just by virtue of being a website. They're both stupid. I'm guessing this is an american thing, right? "Land of the free...if you can afford the lawyer to keep you out of prison".

      I wonder how many sites say you have to be honest, because I lie all the time on the internet; not sure I've ever given my real date of birth, address, mother's maiden name etc etc. Why would I? It's a security risk. The worst thing that should happen is that the owner of the site blocks you. I can live with that. No site is worth any amount of trouble, as there are a billion other sites you can use instead.

    28. Re:Depends on... by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ToS aren't even a viable contract IMHO. No-one reads them, if you edit them the web site rarely bothers to check before accepting your terms and quite often the terms are unenforceable anyway.

      Many of them also include "we may change this ToS at any point of time", which is pretty much the opposite of a contract. For example, cell-phone companies could not enforce a mandatory fee for a paper-bill, because that technically constitutes a violation of the already established contract.

      Even better, some ToS state that it is YOUR responsibility to regularly visit their website to see if they changed it (i.e. they are not even responsible for notifying you of the change). So it better be unenforceable...

    29. Re:Depends on... by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you deal with that? How do you draw the line between a website that is clearly open to the public and an intranet site that is only open to selected people?

      An intranet site that is only open to selected people should have a frigging password protection. Hacking that is presumably a crime on its own accord

      Making a public website and putting a ToS file that says "this is a private internal site" should not be the way to go.

      If I bought a huge parking lot in the city and put a little sign that said "no trespassing" in the corner of the lot -- is that enough to prosecute anyone who steps across an unmarked border? (i.e. I have no fence marking my lot)

    30. Re:Depends on... by Mitreya · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why? I mean seriously why does everything in America have to involve jail. Do you really think that makes us safer? Eventually somebody will do the math

      Someone already has done the math

      Private prisons are a booming industry (instead of being an abomination that should not exist).
      Private prison contracts have clauses guaranteeing prison utilization (~90% or ~95%). Some states may be in danger of defaulting on their prison contract... so that's probably why.

    31. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      35 years for TOS violations, 15 for rape

      But remember, rape is violation of the TOS!

    32. Re:Depends on... by TFAFalcon · · Score: 1

      But there is no need for a special law for this. If something is illegal, then it's illegal. The ToS don't even come into the equation. The problem with the law was that completely legal actions could suddenly become crimes if they conflicted with a site's ToS (which only a few % of users will ever read).

    33. Re:Depends on... by AlanS2002 · · Score: 1

      What were you doing, thinking you were going to get a free parking spot in the first place

      --
      Not all conservatives are stupid,
      but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
      - Hume
    34. Re:Depends on... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      OK, there's lots of sites where you have to sign up for an account before you can get in, and accessing the content requires a password. If slashdot decided not to allow Anonymous Cowards it would be an example of such a site. Would that make it an intranet site?

    35. Re:Depends on... by IAmR007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Under this law you could make an incredibly abusive TOS: It is illegal to "intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains ... information from any protected computer." A definition of "protected computer" is anything connected to the Internet. You could easily write a TOS that forbid any access to a website, and merely loading the homepage would be illegal the way the law is written. Bypassing authentication is not required to break the law. Even worse, if there were no TOS at all, there would be no authorization given. Although it's way too broad, it's apparent why authorization was made the only consideration: If, conversely, if any data a server offered freely to public requests was termed authorized, then injection attacks could be said to be doing exactly what machine was programmed to do unless a TOS specifically detailed what was authorized input. That brings things right back to the TOS being able to define what is authorized. The law needs to be much more detailed to avoid being too broad, yet avoid "it's not a bug, it's a feature" type defenses.

    36. Re:Depends on... by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      If the violation of ToS is due to an illegal action like posting things that are illegal both for the location of the site and the poster it should still land into the legal system

      Yes...and the sky is blue.

    37. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An intranet site that is only open to selected people should have a frigging password protection. Hacking that is presumably a crime on its own accord

      So... you might like JSTOR and MIT both have right?

    38. Re:Depends on... by asylumx · · Score: 1

      The fine for sharing a movie on peer-to-peer in the US is up to $250,000 according to the legal warning on every DVD I've bought recently, and yet the fine for KILLING a highway worker is $7,000 in my state. I'd say we definitely don't have our priorities straight.

    39. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm curious how they managed to pass a law that is obviously and clearly unconstitutional. There are a couple of amendments that can be easily violated if somebody writes their TOS that way.

    40. Re:Depends on... by khakipuce · · Score: 1

      I suspect that if you put up website such that it is publically accessable then there is every expectation that people will access it and by publishing the website you have granted them permission to do so. If, OTOH you put a password on the first page, then you have denied access and any attempt to bypass the password is a mis-use

      --
      Art is the mathematics of emotion
    41. Re:Depends on... by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Precisely. Yes, I agree with the general idea that this should generally be a civil matter, but there are cases where jail time is appropriate. I'm pretty sure there are clauses in my online banking T&C which would be considered serious fraud if I breached them. The problem is prosecutors trying to set themselves up as "internet specialists" by pushing for convictions under unsuitable laws instead of going for the simple, pre-existing (but less interesting on a CV/resume) fraud laws.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    42. Re:Depends on... by retchdog · · Score: 1

      the fine is in addition to the proper criminal penalty for manslaughter, murder, or whatever is appropriate. arguably, the fine for killing a highway worker should be $0, since they aren't any better than anyone else.

      for p2p, the fine is all there is. it's still a fucking ridiculous amount (and it will eventually be found as such), but it's purely a civil matter. well, sort of.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    43. Re:Depends on... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      It doesn't depend on anything. If you completely do away with the law, you still have a law that covers the scenario you describe. By way of example: There is a law against murder. Sometimes someone is mean to a person, and then he murders them. The current trend is to shout from the rooftops: OMFG! We need a law against being mean to people, because sometimes people are mean to people, and then they end up murdering them! How else will we stop people from murdering but passing a law against being mean to people! The whole phenomenally ridiculous argument ignores the fact that there is already a law against murdering people, and that didn't stop them. Ergo, a law against any other behavior that one might erroneously ascribe a causal relationship will likewise be ineffective. In other words, there is no need for a law against TOS violations. We already have a law against the actual criminal behavior.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    44. Re:Depends on... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      He used the words "reasonable" and "court" in the same sentence. ROTFLMAO ....

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    45. Re:Depends on... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      In the UK for example, it is illegal to access a computer system without the owner's permission. You could argue that the TOS set out the terms under which the owner is prepared to give permission to access their system, and if you violate them, you don't have permission to access the site, and are therefore breaking the law.

      The computer misuse act, as it stands, doesn't really apply very well to modern networks. It says you need permission to access a computer system - well when was the last time you asked google for written permission to use their website? The act come from a time when computer systems didn't tend to be open to the public, so demanding that you get permission before accessing it was sane; now it isn't.

      Also, I will perpetually argue that one-time click-through licences aren't worth anything - you're not collecting a signature so how do you prove that a specific person agreed to the licence?

    46. Re:Depends on... by smotpoker1 · · Score: 1

      The second they put the clause they can change the terms of services at will. Or the fact you have no right to abridge or address the TOS should VOID the TOS contract.How it even makes it to court is mind boggling to me.

    47. Re:Depends on... by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, if you broke a different law you still broke a law! This is similar to all the other 'with a computer' or even the 'with a gun' laws out there. If somebody robbed somebody with a chainsaw why should they get less jailtime then the guy who used a gun?

    48. Re:Depends on... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Just look at it this way - the site owner should only care about legal matters if it's clearly illegal at both ends. Otherwise a lot of site owners in the US may have to report on Chinese citizens discussing democracy.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    49. Re:Depends on... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Precisely. Yes, I agree with the general idea that this should generally be a civil matter, but there are cases where jail time is appropriate. I'm pretty sure there are clauses in my online banking T&C which would be considered serious fraud if I breached them. The problem is prosecutors trying to set themselves up as "internet specialists" by pushing for convictions under unsuitable laws instead of going for the simple, pre-existing (but less interesting on a CV/resume) fraud laws.

      I found a better set of laws to charge you under.

    50. Re:Depends on... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      AC said "can't fix stupid." Stupid isn't the problem.

      More like:
      It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! -- Upton Sinclair

    51. Re:Depends on... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Handle it the same way as you handle physical trespassing.

      You can set up rules for how people behave on your property (within reason - you can't discriminate/etc). If somebody violates the rules you can ask them to leave, and if they refuse they are trespassing.

      What you can't do is notice that somebody is violating the rules and just call the police without bothering to ask them to leave.

      Oh, and even if you do call the police then most likely the police will just nicely ask them again to leave and do nothing if they comply, unless they had broken in or something.

      So, if you violate some online service's TOS they can ask you to leave and lock the doors behind you, and they have no further recourse unless you actually break in.

    52. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now the management can kick you out for any reason they want, for violating rules (and techinically even if you don't)

      This has been my experience with Dairy Queen. Dairy Queen has also not received another single dime from me. I have a feeling this is a normal tactic of theirs: charge the customer, get their money, claim that the food needs to be cooked, then call the cops before delivering the food. Quite a few have gone out of business around me. Good riddance.

    53. Re:Depends on... by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

      You've lost me - if you're suggesting I should be prosecuted for fraud instead of under the T&C breach then that was exactly my point.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    54. Re:Depends on... by bondsbw · · Score: 2

      "we may change this ToS at any point of time"

      it is YOUR responsibility to regularly visit their website to see if they changed it

      Are you my health insurance provider? Seems I had this exact conversation with them just a few days ago.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    55. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because Americans have always been dependent on invasion, slavery and domination?
      Until the people come to terms with its past, present and future potential, these problems will continue to pop up.

    56. Re:Depends on... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Well in the UK, trespass isn't a criminal offence. Aggravated trespass is..

    57. Re:Depends on... by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2

      Exactly, and this is how the Misuse of Computers Act is applied. The clue is in the name. A Government spokesperson has already advised people not to use their real names on social media websites, often contrary to the TOS, for security reasons.

      --
      From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    58. Re:Depends on... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      In the UK for example, it is illegal to access a computer system without the owner's permission. You could argue that the TOS set out the terms under which the owner is prepared to give permission to access their system, and if you violate them, you don't have permission to access the site, and are therefore breaking the law. I guess it is much the same in the US.

      "Access a computer system without the owner's permission" is meant to mean "hacking into someone's computer" and similar things. If I leave my Mac on the table, and you open it and delete all the files, that's supposed to be covered by this. Or if you spread a virus to my computer. Or if you use your boss's password to access things that you are not supposed to access.

      But accessing a website against the owner's TOS is nothing like that. It's not hacking anything. If their TOS say "no swearing", then posting a message that contains foul language is not hacking into their computer. So the problem, especially bad in the USA, is that they created a law to make certain things criminal, but because of stupid wording of the law, it makes things criminal that are not supposed to be criminal.

      An unrelated example: In my company, there is some HR person who is responsible to enter salary amounts into a computer so you get paid the right amount. That person has write access to the salary amounts, I don't. If I hack into the company computers and double my salary, that is hacking. If that HR person doubles his or her salary, that is not hacking, and should not be punished as hacking. Of course it is fraud, but not hacking.

    59. Re:Depends on... by WhatAreYouDoingHere · · Score: 1
      Dear Mr/Ms/Mrs Anonymous Coward,
      Your sentence,

      This change is simply trying to remove that insanity.

      is offensive to me. Please turn yourself in to the nearest federal penitentiary.
      Have a nice day! Best regards,
      Your Local Lawmaker

      --
      "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
    60. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And just how much time could you be threatened with for that real world trespass? Days -- maybe a month or two at most. But apparently for digital trespass, the correct measure is virtually the rest of your life apparently.

      Add that in Real Life (TM), looking at a storefront does not count as trespassing, but following a link to the index page of a site you are banned from would be enough to count as infringement.

    61. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's certainly something in what you say. This map shows Louisiana and Oklahoma with more prisoners per capita than any other states, and half of Oklahoma's private prisons have no oklahomans in them.. However, New York and Illinois have outlawed them, but both are almost in the middle (slightly lower than 50th percentile) of the list of incarcerations per capita (see map).

      Personally, I don't think private prisons should exist.

    62. Re:Depends on... by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Precisely. Yes, I agree with the general idea that this should generally be a civil matter, but there are cases where jail time is appropriate.

      And these would be? (excluding existing laws that need not be included in a TOS)

    63. Re:Depends on... by idontgno · · Score: 1

      That's what I like about analogies. You can structure them however you damn well please, and the weak-minded in your audience will think you've proven something.

      I can play that game, too. And, in closer adherence to the letter and the spirit of Slashdot law, it'll be a pizza (restaurant) analogy.

      Your local pizzeria has decided to go upscale and requires coat and tie for their male clientele. You like the pizza, so you decide "coat and tie" is worth it. You get all monkeyed up and pay the establishment a visit. You are seated by the server (who has obviously given you a good shufti to make sure you're appropriately attired). You order, and your wonderful pizza arrives. You begin eating, but don't want your "good clothes" ruined with pizza sauce, so you remove the jacket and tie.

      The owners of the restaurant call the police and have you arrested on the spot. The prosecutors threaten you with the maximum sentence under the Restaurant Fraud and Abuse Act (RFAA), 35 years, unless you'll plead guilty, in which they'll graciously try to get the recommended sentence reduced to just a single-digit number of years of federal incarceration.

      Ridiculous? This precisely mirrors the events at MIT that day. Aaron had authorized access (allowed into restaurant) but exceeded the "intended limits of access" (took off his tie). Rather than terminating his access (asking him to leave the restaurant), MIT had Aaron arrested and pressed charges.

      If you want to get increasingly literal-minded with the analogy, instead of "suit and tie", we'll say "one trip to the salad bar". That's very close to the nature of the limitation that Aaron violated. In the pizzeria analogy, the salad bar is limited to one trip per patron. You go back because the plate they give you is ludicrously small, and you don't like mixing dressed green salad with fruit salad anyway. They have you arrested as you return to the table.

      Aaron was authorized to download a limited number of documents. He overrode the limit and downloaded more (second trip to the salad bar). Total lack of hilarty ensued.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    64. Re:Depends on... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Well duh. If you do something illegal, it doesn't matter what the ToS say about it, since you broke some law (that's what illegal means after all) and can be charged under that law.

      So nothing you said is relevant to the proposed legislation change.

    65. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law was written in 1986 before the web as we know it even existed.

    66. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read TFA... Aaron Swartz *had* an MIT account and thus legal access to JSTOR. He violated JSTOR's TOS by downloading more articles than allowed in a month. That's it. He didn't "hack" into MIT or JSTOR.

    67. Re:Depends on... by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 1

      No, evading the ban or continuing to access after ordered not to by the owner should get you fined - provided you didn't do any damage. If you do damage during unauthorized access, THEN you get sent to jail. If the damage exceeds a certain monetary value, THEN it can be a felony.

      By the way, do you have any evidence that MIT told him to stop? I don't think blacklisting his MAC address counts as correspondence. Perhaps they should have considered asking him to stop before calling in the cops.

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    68. Re:Depends on... by cyberidian · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing...people cannot be allowed to just do whatever they want simply because they want to do it or think the law or TOS is unfair. We have laws and rules that govern society for a reason and if they are broken eggregiously enough the person should go to jail. It is often a tough call in these situations and that is why we have due process of law and jury trials. If a company or government entity is going to all the expense of providing a public website, they should absolutely be able to set their own TOS as long as it does not conflict with existing laws. Repeated or planned effort to purposely break the TOS should be a crimnal offense. It does not matter how you justify what you did it. To think that it is OK to break a law just because you disagree with it is absurd. There are people who truly believe some other person does not deserve to live - does that give them the right to commit murder without prosecution? The US is a Democracy and there are channels for changing laws one disagrees with and ways of rebelling that are more effective than violating a website's TOS or breaching a computer system's security. There is no excuse for purposely by violating a computer system's security or stealing its data for any reason. I am not sure why there is so much fuss over enforcing website TOS. I seriously doubt minor, accidental violations are being prosecuted at all. From what I read, Adam Swartz purposely violated the TOS for JSTOR to make a political point and when one chooses to do that, one must accept the consequences of ones actions. It does not matter that his cause was valid - he had other means to promote that cause legally and even make meaningful change. If he was a Stanford grad who had joined the Harvard Center for Ethics, he had the access to promote change legally. He was by no means a disenfranchised individual and could have made his point another way. Instead, he arrogantly felt that he was entitled to do as he pleased and then apparently was shocked when the US Government said laws applied to him too. If the evidence showed he was innocent, he would have been acquitted at the jury trial or he could have taken the 6 mos plea bargain and got on with his life. Jail is no fun, but if you choose to promote your political opinion through criminal actions, that's where you land. There are many, many activist for causes much more valid than the right to free academic papers (a dubious right actually) that have received lengthy prison sentences. Legalizing marijuana activists immediately come to mind. If you are going to take on the government with unlawful actions, you need to expect to have problems and do jail time. If you don't want that to happen, find a legal and less confrontational approach. A Democracy does not mean that any one person gets their way all the time, instead it means that decisions are made by the majority with all view points considered. Without laws, anarchy would reign and since the only way for laws to be fair is to apply them uniformly, the US Government must prosecute individuals that violate laws regardless of their reasons. Certainly, there should be a difference between accidentally violating a TOS and purposely doing it and the TOS should not conflict with State & US Law, but there is really no excuse in my mind to ever purposely violate a TOS. It's not your website or your data. If you can't follow the TOS, don't use the site! You can always create an altenative site or write a grilling op ed article and promote your opinion, but if you choose to take matters into your own hands and break the law, you should accept the consequences without blaming others.

    69. Re:Depends on... by cyberidian · · Score: 1

      If you went back to the restaurant repeatedly and refused to leave, you would be arrested. If you broke in later or stole something, you would go to jail. Swartz was offered only 6 mos jail time in a plea bargain. That is not much different than what you would get if you broke into a restarant and stole from them.

    70. Re:Depends on... by demonlapin · · Score: 1
      M. Simon says:

      When you make vice a crime, crime becomes merely a vice.

    71. Re:Depends on... by shentino · · Score: 1

      DDoS isn't just looking at the storefront

      It's more like hiring a mob of people to hog the entrance so nobody can do business there.

    72. Re:Depends on... by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Eventually somebody will do the math -- 35 years for TOS violations, 15 for rape

      I'm not in favor of that.

      I would say 25 years minimum for rape. Excepting circumstances that arise, which may be called rape, by technicality. Eg. Under certain circumstances, a consensual sexual act might be declared rape, even though there was no force used, weapon, or threat of injury made. So called "date rape", where both partners were drunk, and therefore incapable of providing consent due to legal rules, or where willful consent of a partner was legally void due to statute, because one or both partners were a year too young in the eyes of the law; one or both might be guilty of rape by statute.

      (In those cases, 25 years, or even 15 could be unjust).

      1 year for minor fraud, involving hundreds of dollars of losses.

      10 years for moderate fraud, ToS violations or theft, involving thousands of dollars.

      15 years for major fraud, involving hundreds of thousands of dollars.

      20 years for massive fraud, involving millions dollars in loss or theft.

      30 years for 10s of millions.

      For repeat offenders, double the time, and require that they make full reparations with their own blood and sweat, before they can be fully released.

    73. Re:Depends on... by mysidia · · Score: 1

      By the way, do you have any evidence that MIT told him to stop? I don't think blacklisting his MAC address counts as correspondence.

      That concept doesn't make any sense. It's not possible to blacklist a MAC address from accessing a web site, period. (Except in the very unlikely case that you can guarantee the person you want to blacklist is always on the exact same local area network as the web server)

      By the way, do you have any evidence that MIT told him to stop?

      I don't care about the MIT guy. I'm speaking to the general case.

      If you are ordered to cease visiting the site, they can confirm you receive the message, and a technical measure is used to ensure you can't visit the site, then bypassing the measure and connecting back, and continuing to harass members of the form or conduct other abuses, should be criminal trespass / fraud, and abuse, with a potential to incur jail time.

    74. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He used the words "reasonable" and "court" in the same sentence.

      Courts are actually the place where reason in one of its purest form is adhered to. Newspaper court reporting, OTOH, seems to exists in order to convince it's readership otherwise. If you really do ROTFLYAO when you read 'reasonable' and 'court' in the same sentence, I'd guess that you spend more time reading journalist's reports of decisions than you do reading the actual opinions. If you lack formal legal training I can understand why.

      What I don't understand is why you seem so proud to show your ignorance off in public?!

    75. Re:Depends on... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Courts are actually the place where reason in one of its purest form is adhered to."

      You have clearly never been to court.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    76. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have clearly never been to court.

      You're dead wrong on that too. Moreover I've read countless judgments while at Law School and since. While it's true that some decisions at first instance are dubious, the court system as a whole rests upon a game or reason (to which for the most part it stays true). True at the highest levels ideology can unfortunately intervene, but that is the exception. In very few avenues of life are decision made on a more reasonable basis than those reached in a court informed by competing counsel restrained by the rules of evidence.

      Trust me on this, your failure to appreciate the reason of law is not predicated on the functioning of courts, but on your own ignorance. Get a law degree and then come back and we'll talk about it when you have some pertinent knowledge. Alternatively we could have a discussion where I spew out some ill informed clichées about a subject where you have some expertise. I mean there is such a subject, or?

    77. Re:Depends on... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Moreover I've read countless judgments while at Law School and since

      I apologize. If I knew you were a moron I would have left you alone to your devices.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    78. Re:Depends on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I knew you were a moron.

      You wrong there too. My IQ is >3 sd above mean. Can't you get anything right? Not anything at all?!

      But seriously ... I'll accept your waving the white flag here.

    79. Re:Depends on... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1
      Your assertion that ""Courts are actually the place where reason in one of its purest form is adhered to."" flagged you as either ignorant, a moron, or both. You then went on to make it clear that you couldn't claim ignorance. Ergo, you are a moron.

      "You wrong there too. My IQ is >3 sd above mean. "

      Me wrong, is me? ROTFLMAO. The fact that you think IQ is relevant is furtherance of my point.

      " I'll accept your waving the white flag here."

      You actually thought that was clever. I rest my case.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    80. Re:Depends on... by dywolf · · Score: 1
      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  2. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    no the power will get to who ever is in the chair and turn them into an a-hole. power corrupts.

    --
    ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
  3. While I think this is ostensibly a good idea... by Omnifarious · · Score: 5, Informative

    While I think this is a good idea, I think that it's really too superficial. It very narrowly addresses a very specific problem with the law.

    There are two really great little tidbits I found online that talk about what the actual problems with the law are:

    The first link is actually a really great series that provides a very nice explanation for a lot of things about how criminal law works.

    1. Re:While I think this is ostensibly a good idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but your comic strip is full of shit.

      I work in a very lightly regulated industry and we still spend a great deal of time on compliance with local, state, and federal laws. The Lacey Act prohibits receiving illegally harvested wildlife, it's a good law serving a good purpose. If his business is Turtle Soup and he has nation wide suppliers then YES, YES, YES, HE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD KNOW IF ONE OF THEM IS VIOLATING FEDERAL LAW. If he makes rare, Madagascar turtle soup he absolutely should know whether he can harvest Madagascar turtles. This is called "due diligence" and the fact that the artist knows nothing about it tells me that the artist has obviously never done much beyond artistry. If you run a hospital you comply with literally thousands of regulations that may only apply to certain parts of your operation at certain times, you're telling me Turtle Soup guy can't audit his vendors?

    2. Re:While I think this is ostensibly a good idea... by Omnifarious · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And you demonstrate his point perfectly. How many people know that collecting stray bird feathers lying on the ground might get them jail time? Is that an intended consequence of the law? It sounds like you know that regulation better than anybody and don't even care about any wider implications that will have surprising and awful effects, just like the bureaucrat guy in the comic.

      As for the turtle example, the comic author explicitly gives the common snapping turtle as an example. A non-endangered species. State X passes a law about the snapping turtle at time T. And time T + 10 he does a vendor audit and after a lot of effort realizes that one of his vendors is now in a jurisdiction in which its illegal for them to sell him common snapping turtles. Unfortunately, the feds noticed at time T + 1. Oops, he's guilty and intent has nothing to do with it because the law isn't written that way.

    3. Re:While I think this is ostensibly a good idea... by Weezul · · Score: 1

      I trust you've all signed the petition to Fire Assistant U.S. Attorney Steve Heymann

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    4. Re:While I think this is ostensibly a good idea... by elvis+the+frog · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget to sign the petition to Fire U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz

    5. Re:While I think this is ostensibly a good idea... by Weezul · · Score: 1

      Agreed, I stopped spamming people with that one after it reached the 25k, which Heymann's petition hasn't reached yet.

      After her bullshit self applause today however I'm all in favor of pushing her petition over 100k before they respond.

      "I feel comfortable and I support the process that was done here..." - Carmen Ortiz, commenting on the aftermath to the Swartz case.

      "Ortizâ(TM)s statement is a template for all that is awful in what we as a political culture have become. And it pushes me â" me, the most conventional, wanting-to-believe-in-all-things-patriotic, former teenage Republican from the home of Little League baseball â" to a place far more radical than I ever want to be." - Lessig

      http://lessig.tumblr.com/post/40845525507/a-time-for-silence

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    6. Re:While I think this is ostensibly a good idea... by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have. I tend to limit the number of exhortation to action posts I make, but I will likely post about that one sometime soon.

  4. Felony Abuse by velvet_stallion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is high time we rollback the number of crimes that result in felony convictions. The "Get Tough On Crime" era only resulted in overstretched state budgets and the creation of an entire underclass of citizens who are barred from certain employments, voting, etc. just because politicians sought to score political points in order to get re-elected. There is a very stark contrast to what the term "felon" implies with regards to the seriousness or violence of the crime, and the rather lackadaisical manner in which it is applied in the legal context.

    1. Re:Felony Abuse by symbolset · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well we are talking about some serious crimes here. 6 months divided by 13 felonies is like what, 14 days each?

      Yeah, maybe at least a year for a federal case, or its disproportionate to call it a felony and ruin a guy's life over.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    2. Re:Felony Abuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6 months was the leveraged plea bargain not the actual sentence, not even the mandatory minimums.

    3. Re:Felony Abuse by anagama · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Get off your Smug Horse because that's not how it works -- even with the "six month" plea agreement he could have spent years in jail, maybe decades:

      Some have blithely said Aaron should just have taken a deal. This is callous. There was great practical risk to Aaron from pleading to any felony. .... More particularly, the court is not constrained to sentence as the government suggests. Rather, the probation department drafts an advisory sentencing report recommending a sentence based on the guidelines. The judge tends to rely heavily on that "neutral" report in sentencing. If Aaron pleaded to a misdemeanor, his potential sentence would be capped at one year, regardless of his guidelines calculation. However, if he plead guilty to a felony, he could have been sentenced to as many as 5 years, despite the government's agreement not to argue for more. Each additional conviction would increase the cap by 5 years, though the guidelines calculation would remain the same. No wonder he didn't want to plead to 13 felonies. Also, Aaron would have had to swear under oath that he committed a crime, something he did not actually believe.

      http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/01/towards-learning-losing-aaron-swartz-part-2

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    4. Re:Felony Abuse by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      And if the judge disagrees with the terms of the plea bargain and wants a harsher sentence, the defendant is given the chance to change their plea to not guilty. Otherwise no one would take a plea bargain, ever.

    5. Re:Felony Abuse by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Being chewed up by an insanely corrupt system, Aaron had no reason to believe this. Or anything.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    6. Re:Felony Abuse by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Ignoring the overly stiff penalties for a second, he should have ABSOLUTELY been stuck with a felony for putting a laptop in a wiring closet. That is a serious no-no and a felony level crime.

      --
      Good-bye
    7. Re:Felony Abuse by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Ignoring the overly stiff penalties for a second, he should have ABSOLUTELY been stuck with a felony for putting a laptop in a wiring closet. That is a serious no-no and a felony level crime.

      The overly stiff penalties are what characterize a felony. A felony is supposed to be an extremely serious crime. In the US, it comes with the loss of the right to vote, own firearms, take certain jobs, etc. A felon is basically a pariah that is branded as permanently unredeemable to society. The classic felonies are murder, treason, rape, arson, grand theft, and so on.

      It is crazy what passes for felonies these days, and putting a laptop in a wiring closet isn't even in the same ballgame as murder or rape. If you can call it a "no-no" without sounding sarcastic, it shouldn't be a felony.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    8. Re:Felony Abuse by cyberidian · · Score: 1

      That's hard for me to believe since most criminals usually only do part of their sentence. In California, I think it is typical for only 2/3 of the sentence to be actually served. Why would it be different with this case?

    9. Re:Felony Abuse by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      You are right. Thanks for some perspective.

      --
      Good-bye
    10. Re:Felony Abuse by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Ignoring the overly stiff penalties for a second, he should have ABSOLUTELY been stuck with a felony for putting a laptop in a wiring closet. That is a serious no-no and a felony level crime.

      If I walk up to you and punch you in the face that isn't a felony (hitting you with a wrench probably would be). How is sticking a laptop in a wiring closet and causing little actual harm to anybody (besides having to find/remove it) more serious than that.

    11. Re:Felony Abuse by symbolset · · Score: 1

      You have completely misunderstood me. It happens.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    12. Re:Felony Abuse by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Of these you are the one who understood what I was saying.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    13. Re:Felony Abuse by symbolset · · Score: 1

      State prisons are different. The federal prison system doesn't have probation or parole any more unless the crime occurred before November 1, 1987. Good time can reduce a sentence to 85%, taking up to 50 days off a year. If you are sentenced to a year, you do 10+ months at least. They also tend to be generally less pleasant to be in because federal punishment is intended only for the most serious crimes and they are packed with the most serious and violent career criminals. Hence when someone is making a big deal of a minor issue, the phrase "making a federal case out of it."

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  5. Too little too late by dyingtolive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fantastic fucking idea. You know what would have made it better? If it never was a felony to begin with.

    Don't mod this up. Common sense doesn't need moderation points. I'm venting.

    --
    Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
    1. Re:Too little too late by Cryacin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't mod this up. Common sense doesn't need moderation points.

      Mod him DOWN!!!

      Common sense has no place on slashdot!

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:Too little too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, Slashdot should have a running poll to see how long Ortiz stays in office. I'd say you wouldn't need longer than six months as being the longest and the winner's receive a free Slashdot T-Shirt or Coffee mug.

    3. Re:Too little too late by dyingtolive · · Score: 2

      That's fine too. I have karma to burn and I'm still too angry about this to care.

      I mean, seriously, the guy had promise and vision. I don't consider myself a depressed person, but I'd probably off myself too if JSTOR fucked me in a federal court and then rubbed salt in the wound by giving away for free everything they fucked me over for.

      --
      Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
    4. Re:Too little too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: JSTOR didn't fuck him in a federal court. MIT were the ones who fucked him.

  6. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by SampleFish · · Score: 1

    You must secretly be an asshole, waiting for your day to shine. Power attracts certain dysfunctional personality types. It's not that good people are so rare but it is so rare that good people find themselves in powerful positions.

  7. This is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CFAA needs to be repealed for being too broad.
    ToS violations were already ruled legal in U.S. vs Drew

  8. I'm confused... by kgeiger · · Score: 1

    Aren't violations of contracts (like ToS) subject to civil law instead of criminal law?

    --
    Vision with execution is hallucination.
    1. Re:I'm confused... by fnj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Aren't violations of contracts (like ToS) subject to civil law instead of criminal law?

      A law, duly enacted, which makes it a felony to violate such ToS, makes criminal procedure apply. That law has to be fixed, and then that particular violation of contract will revert to the normal civil procedure.

    2. Re:I'm confused... by Pinhedd · · Score: 2

      Generally, but not always.

      Breach of contract is something that is generally settled in civil court but there are some laws which can add criminal teeth to breaches of contract.

      misappropriation of trade secrets is a breach of contract which can have contractual, civil, and criminal remedies depending on what's involved.

    3. Re:I'm confused... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no lawyer, but it clearly can't be that simple. Unauthorised access to a computer/network for example is and should be a crime. But the terms of what access is granted and how is and should be entirely up to the operator of the device(s). The terms on which access to the service is granted would be a ToS.

    4. Re:I'm confused... by c0lo · · Score: 1

      I'm equally confused...
      A Democrat not siding with the ...IAA of the content providers??

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:I'm confused... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "A law, duly enacted, which makes it a felony to violate such ToS, makes criminal procedure apply. That law has to be fixed..."

      The thing is: Congress probably never intended it to apply to a mere violation of TOS. The ultimate problem is that it is vague, and some prosecutors have chosen to interpret it that way.

      The central issue is not "How can we prosecutors interpret this law to put more people in jail for worse 'crimes'?" There are actually two other questions here: "What was the intent of Congress?" and "Does that represent justice?"



      "The first and governing maxim in the interpretation of a statute is to discover the meaning of those who made it." -- James Wilson, Founding Father.

    6. Re:I'm confused... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Justice hasn't been the concern of prosecutors or judges for a very long time. That will continue until people take action to make it not continue.

    7. Re:I'm confused... by ockegheim · · Score: 1

      That sounds eminently sensible. Therefore, good luck getting it through the current Congress!

      --
      I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
  9. Re:No one reads the TOS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have a document in my backpack; my personal ToS. It states that everyone who shakes my hand must give me $20. By shaking, they agree.

    Fails. Firstly other party is unaware of the terms prior to the hand shake and as you will remember from 1st year law school, past consideration is no consideration. Even if they were it still fails for lack of consideration: the other party suffers a detriment both in paying $20 and in shaking your hand, so the consideration only flows in the same direction ... twice. :p

  10. Its not like fixing tech problems! by xs400 · · Score: 1

    Ever notice how technical problems HAVE to be fixed? or else? How sportsmen are banned for life? This never happens to people who commit fraud in finance (or create financial instruments that simply suck money from us) or those who frame laws that are faulty! The real world is ruled by the powerful and logic does not apply.

    1. Re:Its not like fixing tech problems! by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      You just don't understand THEIR logic.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    2. Re:Its not like fixing tech problems! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Greed is not logic.

    3. Re:Its not like fixing tech problems! by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      Greed is extremely logical. It's self-gratification on a feedback loop.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    4. Re:Its not like fixing tech problems! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps, but when one analyzes greed logically one cannot help but conclude that it is seldom in one's own self-interest. So it may be perfectly logical in a simpler creatures possessing no self awareness or social structures, but in adult humans (or even the higher primates) I'd suggest that it borders on the irrational.

    5. Re:Its not like fixing tech problems! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "Greed is extremely logical. It's self-gratification on a feedback loop."

      It may be logical, but it is not logic. Two different things.

  11. This is sad by Sigvatr · · Score: 1

    Leave the damn guy alone.

    1. Re:This is sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was a hacktivist. It only makes sense that his death be abused for political gain, just as he or any other true hacktivist would have done as per the hacktivist philosophy.

  12. Don't reward suicide. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This might be a good law, but don't reward suicide by naming it Aaron's law. Troubled fools will be offing themselves left and right for their favorite causes.

    1. Re:Don't reward suicide. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's all the more reason to do it. Martyrdom is beneficial in that it at least rids us of martyrs.

  13. Re:Feel good law for political gain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It still would be a useful reform. Remember that woman who 'trolled' a teenager into killing herself? She was almost prosecuted for violating the MySpace TOS, which would have been a terrible precedent, as it would make trolling actually illegal.

  14. Profit by Improv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd probably draw a distinction between when money changes hands relating to TOS-violations, and otherwise. There need to be tools to fight botters, for example.

    --
    For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    1. Re:Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>There need to be tools to fight botters, for example.

      Yes, but those tools need to technical, not legal.

    2. Re:Profit by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I'd probably draw a distinction between when money changes hands relating to TOS-violations, and otherwise. There need to be tools to fight botters, for example.

      If the ToS and the site requires you represent something, that the organization running the site is entitled to rely upon the accuracy of due to the ToS requirement, and you intentionally make a false representation, in violation of the ToS, in order to profit from the situation, and you do derive that benefit.

      They ought to still be able to nail the violator with wire fraud charges

    3. Re:Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "botters"

      That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    4. Re:Profit by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Civil or commercial/contractual laws should be enough even for money changing hands.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:Profit by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      I'd probably draw a distinction between when [...], and [...]

      Then narrow the law.
      Far too many of our laws are written with the broadest possible application,
      even if the legislative intent is narrow and focused on a specific problem.

      Like how the anti-terrorist Patriot Act is mostly being used to go after drug dealers, money laundering, and organized crime.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    6. Re:Profit by Improv · · Score: 1

      I'm quite aware what it means. I was a volunteer moderator for a moderately large MMORPG, and spent considerable time using tooks to boot the thousands of bots that were continually swarming onto the system.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    7. Re:Profit by Improv · · Score: 1

      And by tooks I mean tools. Sorry. It's late at night :)

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    8. Re:Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like how the anti-terrorist Patriot Act is mostly being used to go after drug dealers, money laundering, and organized crime.

      I think you are confused. The politicians need the drug dealers, financial wizards committing fraud, and prostitutes for their own benefit and to oppose the rest of society. After 50+ years the War on Drugs has proven to be a failure. After 100+ years the War on Organized Crime has been proven a failure. After 1000+ years the War on Prostitution is a failure. In any normal enterprise these failures would have resulted in those responsible for eliminating these societal ills being fired. But no because it is Government these failures go unpunished and worse the laws are intended to keep the masses under threat of imprisonment while the self-appointed elite of society skate around the legal system.

    9. Re:Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm quite aware what it means.

      I'm actually not sure you are. It certainly seems you've never visited any Commonwealth country...

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=botter

    10. Re:Profit by Improv · · Score: 1

      The definition I was using shows up first on that list. You may be very disappointed I am not using one of the other definitions provided there, but your URL undermines your argument.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    11. Re:Profit by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Well, by all means make botnets illegal, but you don't have to make a generic "violate TOS is a felony" law to do that.

      I'm not convinced that merely running a botnet should be a felony either, though using it to defraud people of money and such should be. I'd focus more on outcomes than on means.

  15. You know we have a problem when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can get more time for breaking a ToS than for...

    - Manslaughter
    - Robbing a bank
    - Child porn with intent to distribute

    among other things. Pathetic.

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/14/1441211/killers-slavers-and-bank-robbers-all-face-less-severe-prison-terms-than-aaron-swartz-did/

  16. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That is difficult to fix because senior prosecutors use their position to run for office or become a judge while junior prosecutors use their position to become senior prosecutors. Both of these require making a name for yourself. And there are no penalties for overcharging and intimidating defendants because the prosecutor can simply claim that they were following the law and that their plea bargains are reasonable (so reasonable that even innocent people commonly take them /sarc). Congress isn't going to change the laws because they are owned by the corporations. So the public is fucked. Nothing short of a revolution is going to fix this, and even then I am highly skeptical. The rich will loot the system, the politically connected will get away with high crimes (like HSBC and every other bank), and the common man will continue to get shafted. But at least with a revolution, we can occasionally put some of these fuckers against the wall.

  17. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by oztiks · · Score: 1

    Sorry but the sheer mechanics of what your proposing totally and utterly mind boggling.

    I'm pretty sure no matter how good the prosecutor is, his/her's a sphincter is actually going to occupy that chair. Then you're proposing that people who do sit in a particular chair should be thrown in jail?

    Lunacy! but not so far fetched considering what the US Govt. did to Swartz.

  18. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must secretly be an asshole, waiting for your day to shine. Power attracts certain dysfunctional personality types. It's not that good people are so rare but it is so rare that good people find themselves in powerful positions.

    This is the most unfortunate problem inherent in any democratic system. The rule of the petty tyrants.

  19. Gotcha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    1) Your navigation to this website is considered agreement to the following terms
    2) You shall not view, consider or think about this website
    3) Breach of these conditions will result in all your base belong to us.

  20. I for one by stms · · Score: 3, Funny

    Think that if you violate a TOS you should land in jail it only makes sense.
    --
    Note: by reading this comment you agree to pay me a fee of $1,000,000 if the fee is refused I reserve the right to throw you in jail.

    1. Re:I for one by 88Seconds · · Score: 1

      Having read your post and seeing the ToS you apply I was wanting to know how to make the payment.

      Please can you post the following details so payment can made most quickly

      Full Name
      SSID Number
      Address
      Bank Account Details
      Credit Card Details
      Email Address
      Telephone Number(s) - both landline and cellphone

      Thanks in advance

    2. Re:I for one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you should be caned for using sarcasm online
      --
      Note: by making a thread you agree to let me fuck it up, I reserve the right to ignore anything else you may post.

  21. Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes, the law is supposed to distinguish between a non-criminal civil dispute between two private parties (Aaron and JSTOR) and a crime which is "an act so horrendous it is against society" - I am paraphrasing a law professor. Aaron's acts don't come close to that. Yet there he was looking at prison.

    ArsTechnica has a good article on this case, which quotes Columbia law professor Tim Wu on the appalling behavior of federal prosecutor Carmen Ortiz:
    In our age, armed with laws passed in the nineteen-eighties and meant for serious criminals, the federal prosecutor Carmen Ortiz approved a felony indictment that originally demanded up to thirty-five years in prison. Worse still, her legal authority to take down Swartz was shaky. Just last year, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals threw out a similar prosecution. Chief Judge Alex Kozinski, a prominent conservative, refused to read the law in a way that would make a criminal of “everyone who uses a computer in violation of computer use restrictions—which may well include everyone who uses a computer.” Ortiz and her lawyers relied on that reading to target one of our best and brightest... The prosecutors forgot that, as public officials, their job isn’t to try and win at all costs but to use the awesome power of criminal law to protect the public from actual harm... Today, prosecutors feel they have license to treat leakers of information like crime lords or terrorists. In an age when our frontiers are digital, the criminal system threatens something intangible but incredibly valuable. It threatens youthful vigor, difference in outlook, the freedom to break some rules and not be condemned or ruined for the rest of your life.
    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/opening-arguments-in-the-trial-of-public-opinion-after-aaron-swartz-death
    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/01/everyone-interesting-is-a-felon.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/17/silverglate-three-felonies-book

    Academic publishers have been price gauging universities and students for a long time, but to their credit at least JSTOR had the brains to tell the feds to back off. Oritz should have listened to them. Their behavior is merely greedy. Hers is unforgivable: there is no place in government for public officials who abuse their power and harm the public for their own personal advantage.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/apr/24/harvard-university-journal-publishers-prices
    http://enculturation.gmu.edu/knowledge-cartels
    http://boingboing.net/2010/01/03/prescription-for-con.html
    http://academhack.outsidethetext.com/home/2012/ending-knowledge-cartels/

    1. Re:Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what you and the majority have failed to mention is that the American justice system is already designed for this. The case did. NOT. finish. trial. Read that again. That Kozinski example you cited? The judge was able to throw out that conviction because that similar case went through trial. There was a conviction. How about that? Aaron Swartz was convicted of nothing, because Aaron Swartz decided to forego the trial and kill himself. Further, if the bar for deciding whether a prosecution goes forward is simply does the victim of a crime want to proceed, then I guess we can go ahead and stop prosecuting any crimes where the accused has the ability to intimidate the victim.

    2. Re:Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by anagama · · Score: 2

      Right -- after you're bankrupted, your career destroyed, maybe even some time in jail, your conviction gets tossed. Do the Feds give you your life back? Fuck no. It's a lose/lose situation caused by people who lost sight of their job -- to protect people from bad guys, but the Feds are more interested in making everyone a "bad guy" because it means they just have more power. The power of tyranny and we get to suck it up while they enrich their benefactors.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    3. Re:Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by dkf · · Score: 1

      Academic publishers have been price gouging universities and students for a long time

      FTFY...

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    4. Re:Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you. That one always gets me. :-)

    5. Re:Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I guess we can go ahead and stop prosecuting any crimes where the accused has the ability to intimidate the victim.

      Troll, straw man. I guess we can go ahead and stop prosecutors from bullying defendants, full stop. If they can't win without bullying they clearly should lose.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

      "The power of tyranny and we get to suck it up while they enrich their benefactors."

      Under the under the second amendment of the U.S. Constitution, The right of the people to form a private militia shall not be infringed. It is there to protect the country being decayed into another North Korea.

    7. Re:Conduct of Federal Prosecutor Carmen Ortiz by anagama · · Score: 1

      Problem is, 50% of the country LIKES it this way, and 25% doesn't give a shit.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  22. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which is why the scope of democratic authority needs to be limited, so that megalomaniac nutcases must needs look elsewhere for their control fix.

  23. Re:Feel good law for political gain by shentino · · Score: 1

    Changing mac and ip addresses for the purpose of evading a ban is much closer to the sort of trespass the CFAA was designed to prevent than mere tos violations.

    It's like a bar.

    You can get 86'ed any time by the bartender but that's the worst they can do.

    Go back and it's trespassing

  24. Re:Feel good law for political gain by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

    Yes, it would have been a terrible precedent to use that law for that purpose, but the fact she escaped any legal responsibility for her predatory behavior is also a terrible precedent. From my POV the US justice system failed to deliver justice in both cases.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  25. Proof of Tyranny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the more reason to never allow infringement of your right to bear arms.

  26. Re:No one reads the TOS. by c0lo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have a document in my backpack; my personal ToS. It states that everyone who shakes my hand must give me $20. By shaking, they agree.

    Even if they were it still fails for lack of consideration: the other party suffers a detriment both in paying $20 and in shaking your hand, so the consideration only flows in the same direction ... twice. :p

    Easy fix: switch the places between the hand and the ToS... put the hand in the backpack (detach it if necessary) and offer the ToS to be shaken.

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  27. Re:Great cases make bad law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well what a happy bouncy chirpy kind of guy you are. You would probably look at six months jail as a chance to win six months of free rent, food and medical care. Courts are very stressful places. You've obviously never been before one. Don't sit on your high horse and tell us how wonderful and fair they are, because you don't know shit.

  28. Re:No one reads the TOS. by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

    I have a document in my backpack; my personal ToS. It states that everyone who shakes my hand must give me $20. By shaking, they agree.

    Fails. Firstly other party is unaware of the terms prior to the hand shake and as you will remember from 1st year law school, past consideration is no consideration. Even if they were it still fails for lack of consideration: the other party suffers a detriment both in paying $20 and in shaking your hand, so the consideration only flows in the same direction ... twice. :p

    I believe that is how most TOS and EULA's seem to work anyway.

    --
    ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
  29. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by c0lo · · Score: 1

    You must secretly be an asshole, waiting for your day to shine. Power attracts certain dysfunctional personality types. It's not that good people are so rare but it is so rare that good people find themselves in powerful positions.

    This is the most unfortunate problem inherent in any democratic system. The rule of the petty tyrants.

    And it's easy to understand why: good people find better use for their time than power games.

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  30. Unfortunately, this "law" cost a life by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I agree that there are way too many "laws".

    It's just unfortunate that in this case this particular "law" cost the life of a very promising young guy.

    The damn system did him in.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Unfortunately, this "law" cost a life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no he did himself in.

    2. Re:Unfortunately, this "law" cost a life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The system didn't do him in. PEOPLE caused his death. By taking away all other acceptable options.
      The powers that be decided he must be "MADE AN EXAMPLE OF". Because "minor maybe crime" on a "computer" (ooo scary! hackers! cyber! oh nos!).

      And he was smart enough to realize just how totally screwed he was. Now and in the decades coming of his future.
      He took the only option left to anyone who doesn't like rape and a ruined life plus being billed for it. Death.

      And the powers that be. Will never miss one night of sleep over it. Nothing will ever happen to them. And they will continue to do this to other people.

      The wheels of the american justice machinery grind exceedingly slow and very fine.
      Beware you don't get caught in them. Or else death is the only logical option open to you. Unless handcuffs, bars, rape and abuse is your thing.

    3. Re:Unfortunately, this "law" cost a life by gmuslera · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The "because" probably was more related to that he was a major voice behind the efforts of against sopa/pipa and other movements. That minor maybe crime was the excuse to get it and then try to make an example, you know, like rape charges by someone associated with the CIA. If you go against or scare them, somehow, even for a parking ticket, you will get into deep shit. Taking away a particular tool that they used once don't mean that they are stopped from using them, or any of the other alternatives.

  31. Repeat after me: by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Terms of Service are a contract. For breach of a contract you are entitled to economic damages*. You are not entitled to throw the other party in jail. Only the government can imprison people and only when the breach is criminal. See post below.

    *JSTOR could have sued him for lost earnings or copyright, but chose not to.

    1. Re:Repeat after me: by mysidia · · Score: 2

      The Terms of Service are a contract.

      The ToS can only be a contract, if the person who signed up to access the site, furnished accurate information, and actually intended to abide by the terms. If you sign a document, in real life, supplying a false name, or false address, or someone else's identity, and/or have no real intention whatsoever to make good on the terms, while you take off with whatever thing of value you received from the other party, then in this case, it's not merely a breach of contract, but a crime in real life, you go to jail, and you should go to jail if you do that online, as well.

      A breach of contract is a failure to satisfy all your obligations, but before you can be merely in breach, you have to have actually have agreed to the contract in good faith, and intended at one time, to adhere to the contract. Deceiving the other party into thinking you two have an agreement, so you can rob them virtually or physically: is fraud.

      For a document to actually be a contract, it has to meet certain legal tests. For a document to be a contract, there has to be a meeting of minds, and there has to be consideration such as payment, or items of monetary value, received by both parties.

      If they furnished false information, eg a fake name, when a real name was required, then they have committed a criminal act that goes far beyond simple breach of contract.

      In most cases a ToS will not be a contract, because nothing prevents you from accessing the site without verifiably agreeing to it. The ToS is something else.

      A ToS is more like a "No trespassing" sign; or more like a "No trespassing; No admittance, except if you follow these rules ...."

      In the event, you don't follow the rules, then you committed the crime of trespass.

    2. Re:Repeat after me: by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      The Terms of Service are a contract.

      ToS are not a f**king contract. Almost every ToS "contract" states that it can be changed (by one side -- I'll let you guess which one) at any time. That's pretty much the OPPOSITE of a contract.

      In some cases, the ToS can be changed without notification to you. Then it is your responsibility to visit the website and see if they changed it.

    3. Re:Repeat after me: by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 2

      That is not true. You merely have to accept the contract to be bound by it. What you are thinking at the time you accepted it is immaterial. The so called "meeting of the minds" is no longer used as a test for contract acceptance because it was too hard - impossible - for the courts to know what the parties were really thinking. Instead the courts determine whether a contract is formed by how the parties act. For example if you are sending me work and I am doing it the courts will hold we have a contract, even if there was never any written or even oral agreement. http://e-lawresources.co.uk/Offer-and-acceptance.php

      Once you accept the contract you are bound by it even if at the time of accepting it you do not intend to adhere to it or were not acting in good faith. For example, if you are selling me a Picasso for $5 because you don't know what it is, and I do know and intend to screw you over big time, the courts will uphold that contract in my favor. US Courts do take consider good faith, but not like that. Other Common Law countries don't place any weight on good faith at all.

      If you use an alias on a contract, you're still bound by it. You can even have a contract without either party knowing who the other party is. You can still legally use an alias - suppose you want to get away from bad people - though thanks to new laws against identity theft it now means you can accidentally end up on the wrong side of the law - even when no identity was stolen and even when there was no criminal intent. This is a big change in the US that people need to be aware of:
      http://news.cnet.com/police-blotter-is-it-legal-to-use-an-alias-anymore/2100-7348_3-6213284.html
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/nov/17/silverglate-three-felonies-book

      > If they furnished false information, eg a fake name, when a real name was required, then they have committed a criminal act that goes far beyond simple breach of contract.

      "Fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual." Aaron didn't do what he did for personal gain, or with the intention of damaging JSTOR.

      > In most cases a ToS will not be a contract, because nothing prevents you from accessing the site without verifiably agreeing to it. The ToS is something else.

      For a contract to be formed it has to be offered to you and you have to accept. If you are presented with the ToS beforehand as a condition of accessing a site, yes, it is a contract and you are bound by it.

      > A ToS is more like a "No trespassing" sign; or more like a "No trespassing; No admittance, except if you follow these rules ...." In the event, you don't follow the rules, then you committed the crime of trespass.

      If it was never offered to you, then there never was any contract. Also as @Mitreya points out: If they are changing the contract and not telling you let alone getting your agreement, then that's no contract. Civil Law puts a very big emphasis on "reasonable". It's not reasonable to expect consumers to go and check the TOS of every company they buy from every day and sift through thousand work legalese agreements trying to spot changes.

      BTW any good lawyer will come up with half a dozen ways to get out of a contract. An easy one with TOS and shrinkwrap agreements is the companies that offer them know most people don't read them and most people wouldn't understand them even if they read them. A lawyer could argue a client didn't know what they were agreeing too and so claim the contract never existed. http://busines

  32. *FUCK* *YEAH* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And this slashdot post is the start of it! Go! Go! Go!

  33. Re:Great cases make bad law by seebs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is some serious bullshit there. The "guilty conscience" thing? Seriously, that's just crap. That is not how people work, and that is not how reality works. There are lots of people who know perfectly well that there is a law they have technically broken, but who do not feel guilty about it at all -- but who might not be surprised to face jail time if a prosecutor happened to pick them to make an example of. The problem with this, apart from the victim-blaming, is that you're assuming that "violated a law" and "guilty" are the same thing in any kind of ethical sense. Similarly, "he knew he was guilty, so the probation he would have recieved was deserved."

    This doesn't logically follow, because "deserve" is a moral claim, but you're basing it on the legal system. Legal systems are not moral systems. You can quite easily be fully aware that you have done a thing which is prohibited by a law, but not feel that you deserve jail time for it. Or you might feel that a misdemeanor charge that's in some way related to what you did is justified, but that multiple felony counts aren't.

    The fact is, nothing he did merits years of jail time, and the claim that the prosecutor was "asking for" six months minimum security is highly misleading at best. They were, quite clearly, aiming to make an example of him. Look at previous cases Ortiz prosecuted against people who could afford defense teams, and tell me how "deserved" those outcomes were.

    Long story short, even if we ignore the fact that he was depressed, this was a crazy thing and your attempts to make it look less crazy are disturbing. The just world fallacy is called a fallacy because it is not actually valid reasoning. Your attempts to make yourself feel okay with the world by pretending that what happens is okay and justified are unpersuasive at best. And yet. We know he was depressed, and we know a fair amount about what depression does to people's ability to evaluate things and make decisions. It's bad enough that prosecutors are trying really hard to make dramatic examples of people by going after huge piles of charges without regard to the actual severity of the underlying acts; cherry-picking for depressed people because they're easier to bully is despicable. So's trying to defend it.

    --
    My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
  34. rediculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the violation amounts to large scale theft, it must be treated as a serious criminal matter.

  35. Re:Great cases make bad law by 88Seconds · · Score: 2

    The guy was a felon

    No he was an alleged felon. He had not been convicted of any of the crimes he allegedly committed.

    But then since you're posting anonymously, you don't appear to me to be prepared to stand behind the statement you made.

  36. Redundant by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 2

    Yes. But the illegality of that action is completely independent from the site's ToS. ToS just do not belong in criminal law. In fact they are there almost nowhere else in the world.

    --
    Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
  37. Re:No one reads the TOS. by xenobyte · · Score: 2

    Wrong.

    Courts have upheld the ToS/EULA contained within a shrink-wrapped bundle in a way unreadable from the outside that states that by opening this bundle you agree to the contents and forfeit any rights to return the merchandise except where covered by warranty. Microsoft used these for a decade.

    The correct way to handle the Microsoft EULA was to not open it and by other means access their website, read the EULA there and then you'd still have the option to return everything. Later they simply packaged their EULA in a separate loose pamphlet and only shrink wrap software and manuals.

    Actually, most ToS are also 'impossible' - they usually state "...by accessing this site you agree to..." but you need to access the site in order to read that. which means that simply by reading the ToS you agree to them.

    --
    "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  38. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 1

    In other words: The chair fills the asshole...

    --
    Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
  39. Re:Great cases make bad law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well let's just stop prosecuting criminals at all then, since some of them might be sensitive flowers that just can't handle facing consequences from their deliberate actions.

    U.S. prisons are notoriously shitty, but you can't use that as an excuse that no one should serve a sentence for any kind of time. Half a year of prison is not an extraordinary sentence.

  40. Re:No one reads the TOS. by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

    I have a document in my backpack; my personal ToS. It states that everyone who shakes my hand must give me $20. By shaking, they agree.

    Fails. Firstly other party is unaware of the terms prior to the hand shake and as you will remember from 1st year law school, past consideration is no consideration. Even if they were it still fails for lack of consideration: the other party suffers a detriment both in paying $20 and in shaking your hand, so the consideration only flows in the same direction ... twice. :p

    So put the TOS document in shrinkwrap, then it should be binding.

    --
    This space unintentionally left blank.
  41. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by manicb · · Score: 1

    I'd settle for having somebody constantly watching over them... "Sure you want to do that? Looks like an asshole move to me!"

    They could have a quota for identifying a minimum number of asshole prosecutors, and their career progression could depend on declaring powerful people to be assholes.

  42. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by azalin · · Score: 1

    In other words: The chair fills the asshole...

    We all have seen some of the more colorful parts of the internet.

  43. Re:Feel good law for political gain by jopsen · · Score: 1

    Yes, it would have been a terrible precedent to use that law for that purpose, but the fact she escaped any legal responsibility for her predatory behavior is also a terrible precedent. From my POV the US justice system failed to deliver justice in both cases.

    I don't know the case, but it sounds like she was only guilty of harassment and the victim was dead.
    The fact that the victim committed suicide doesn't change the crime she committed. Anyways, I imagine that harassment is hard to prove, especially with the victim being unable to witness...

    I'm not saying what she did was acceptable, nor that it wasn't technically illegal, but that if you have free speech, convicting people of bullying can be very hard... And even when done, the punishment is often insignificant (after all bullying is a minor offence).

  44. Re:Great cases make bad law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Sometimes people need to come together and say crap the system is broken let's fix it. Aarons case is a good excuse to get a lot of people together to fix some pieces of the system.

    There is a case to be made that Aaron didn't even violate TOS. He walked into an unlocked building and entered an unlocked closet and put a laptop in there. His laptop by making lots of requests for journal articles proceeded to DOS the site (effectively slashdotting it). Apparently they were not actually prepared for people to download journal articles (the purpose of the site). Various network admins then got involved to figure out what was going on, and how to slow things down. Somehow that got the feds and the Secret Service involved and there was a nasty over reaction at the end.

    Having read the proposed law it seems like a nice patch to the legal code. I don't know that it fixes the whole problem but it makes things better.

    Frankly I think what Aaron did was rude behavior and he probably deserved some kind of slap on the wrist so Aaron would realize how rude it was. A felony conviction and lots of jail time seem way over the top.

  45. news! by Tom · · Score: 1

    It is a crime right now?

    Seriously?

    AFK - I need to add "you agree to only use this site while standing on your head naked at the center of a busy intersection" to my ToS. Burried somewhere in the middle. And then send out anonymous invitations to everyone I dislike...

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly are the conditions on which ToS are valid? If I browse the web, I only request content from the web pages aI browse to, not e.g. by advertisers. If my browser sends data (like tracking cookies) to the advertiser, I could say it is providing them a service (because, after all, I don't have an advantage from that, they do), for which I could define ToS. So if I define as ToS that anyone who uses this service provided by my web browser owes me ten million dollars, is that an enforceable ToS, and if the advertiser who tracks me doesn't pay, I can land him in jail? :-)

  46. No, you need another amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No law shall be enacted which makes civil offences criminal ones.

    THAT would solve a lot of problems with your present justice system.

  47. WHAT?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Prosecutors abuse overbroad laws?!? When did this start happening?

    I was assured, ASSURED that they have the best interest of the public at heart.

  48. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by AlanS2002 · · Score: 1
    --
    Not all conservatives are stupid,
    but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
    - Hume
  49. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by AlanS2002 · · Score: 1

    More likely to see the otherwise ordinarily bullied up against the wall first in revolution.

    --
    Not all conservatives are stupid,
    but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
    - Hume
  50. Serious crime commited (with a computer!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The dude downloaded a few files. He should have been locked up forever!!! This is serious stuff. It's not like he KILLED MICHAEL JACKSON or something... then I could see being a bit more lenient... like 4 years in jail or something.

  51. Re:Feel good law for political gain by ami.one · · Score: 2
    Replace 'Bullying' with 'Blackmail' and you can get a better perspective.

    Offering 6 months if you accept guilt and waive your right to a Trial V/s We will get you for 50 years. That's as bad as the mafia asking for protection money - Pay $100 a day OR we'll demolish everything in your shop or break your knees.

  52. Re:No one reads the TOS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fails. Firstly other party is unaware of the terms prior to the hand shake and as you will remember from 1st year law school, past consideration is no consideration

    So, your law school taught you that the TOS of a web site is not valid. Maybe you should inform this Aaron of that.

  53. Re:Feel good law for political gain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Changing mac and ip addresses for the purpose of evading a ban is much closer to the sort of trespass the CFAA was designed to prevent than mere tos violations.

    It's like a bar.

    Like a bar that bans the guy in the blue shirt. When you come back wearing a red shirt, should you be punished for changing clothes, or should the bar fix their policy of banning clothes?

  54. Re:Great cases make bad law by retchdog · · Score: 1

    would you be in favor of this law if it had been proposed out of pure wisdom and legal consideration?

    if not, GTFO. seriously. kill yourself.

    if so, why does it matter what prompted it?

    --
    "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  55. Agreed, but ideally one should drop plea bargins by Weezul · · Score: 1

    I'd agree we should repeal the CFAA entirely, ditto PATRIOT Act, etc.

    Ideally, one should halt plea bargains entirely as well though, civilized countries forbid that barbaric practice. It's plea bargains that create the need for these insane laws with which prosecutors beat defendants into guilty pleas.

    I doubt we'll correct these systemic problems though because the prison-industrial-prosecutorial complex has far too effective a lobby.

    I suspect me must demonstrate the capacity to derail the profesional lives of overzealous prosecutors and law enforcement before they'll back off enough for us to fix the underlying laws.

    You should sign the petition to fire both Stephen Heymann and Carmen Ortiz of course, especially the one for Heymann who previously drove another accused hacker to suicide.

    We must take this well beyond simply firing these two abusive prosecutors though. We should obviously prevent them from ever winning any primary elections or being appointed for other political posts, especially judgeships.

    If they lose their jobs, we should then target any private sector law firms that hire them for corporate law. You should not harass said law firms directly of course, but attempting to raise a stink with their clients might work.

    If these two powerful prosecutors wind up as lowly defense attorneys, even highly paid ones, then we'll basically have sent a clear message that abusing the CFAA isn't necessarily such an effective way to make a political career for yourself.

    There are numerous other people deserving of the same treatment as well, but at present we've no method of organizing it.

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
  56. Bullying begins at the top of the U.S. food chain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Very true. Once you are charged or sued no matter how bogus your life is ruined. Courts can make mistakes and if the federal prosecutor gets a sympathetic judge you can find yourself in jail with no one to listen. She threatened this guy with 35 years jail. How would that make any college kid feel? Even if he won, that is years off his life, the stigma of being charged, jailed and a crushing debt.

    Here are some very nasty stories of federal employees like Oritz who made people's lives a misery "because they could": SAN FRANCISCO — A year after this bizarre charge — that she lied about the interaction with the humpback that produced no charges — more than a dozen federal agents, led by one from NOAA, raided her home. They removed her scientific photos, business files and computers. Call this a fishing expedition. This pursuit of Black seems to have become a matter of institutional momentum, an agent-driven case. Six years ago, NOAA agents, who evidently consider the First Amendment a dispensable nuisance, told Black's scientific colleagues not to talk to her and to inform them if they were contacted by her or her lawyers. Since then she has not spoken with one of her best friends.To finance her defense she has cashed out her life's savings, which otherwise might have purchased a bigger boat. The government probably has spent millions. It delivered an administrative subpoena to her accountant, although no charge against her has anything to do with finances. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20120803gw.html .

  57. Yeah? So? That is how life works by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 0

    Due diligence exists because the alternative is allowing ignorance of the law to be a defense. And that does NOT WORK. Proof? Patents. IBM advises its people NOT to research patents to see if they might already have been filed or if prior art exists because in patent law, ignorance IS a defense. And it SUCKS!

    If you allow ignorance of the law to be a defense, anyone can simply claim of anything at all that they didn't know and get of free. Your turtle soup maker could import turtles from anywhere at all, endangered as hell and simply say "I didn't know" and get away with it. Your idea is totally unworkable UNLESS you are one of those libertarians who think there should be no law in which case I will just book a one way ticket on your credit card to Somalia.

    No doubt you think killing of endangered species for soup is all perfectly fine. Of course if I set foot at night on your lawn to ask directions, you are free to gun me down. Laws only are right when they protect you, when they stop you from harming others, they are wrong. Right?

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    Oh and it would help if your really bad artist friend actually linked to some real cases, with the FULL story. Not like people talking about the 3 strikes rule and then ONLY mention the last light crime, NOT how the cookie thief was out for one hour after serving 20 years for eating babies before being thrown back in jail to rot.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Yeah? So? That is how life works by WillerZ · · Score: 1

      You are conflating ignorance of the law with ignorance of the facts (and you appear to have copious amounts of both).

      A pre-existing patent is not law, it is fact. IBM advises its employees to remain ignorant of other patents while working on products because if those products are later found infringing then their liability is reduced.

      I was a Master Inventor at IBM before I quit in 2010 and we absolutely did check for pre-existing patents before filing anything new. Occasionally this would lead to wasted effort within IBM because a proposal would get further through the process than it would if the inventors had looked for relevant patents before starting work.

      --
      I guess today is a passable day to die.
    2. Re:Yeah? So? That is how life works by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      Oh and it would help if your really bad artist friend actually linked to some real cases, with the FULL story.

      This artist is not 'my friend'. This comic is a random tidbit of information I found on the Internet, and I have no idea who it is that drew it, and I've never met with them or interacted with them before in my life. (At least, not to my knowledge.)

  58. Is there a larger issue here though? by popo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A larger problem however is the expectation of non-legal laymen to read and agree to what are ostensibly binding TOS contracts.

    I have seen TOS contracts that (in non-digital format) would be dozens of pages long. Users simply click "Ok" with the assumption that "There's probably nothing bad in there". But this assumption is clearly false in a large number of cases when one considers privacy and security clauses.

    I have seen "Digital trespassing" (which are protected by the DMCA) buried in the TOS carrying agreed monetary damage amounts.

    Consider that a TOS could expressly forbid users to use AdBlock and consider all users of AdBlock to be digital trespassers. You say "Bollocks" (as would I, for the record) but that doesn't change the fact that a TOS can say whatever it wants and the law has already decided that online consent to contracts can be binding. (Not to confuse the greater issue with the legality of this one example of course.)

    The issue ultimately comes down to:
    1) The expectations of lay-people to understand and agree to complex, binding agreements, the vast majority of which are never read.
    2) The binding nature of a click-to-sign agreement.

    --
    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
    1. Re:Is there a larger issue here though? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Frankly I'd get rid of all contracts of adhesion. Contracts should only have the force of law if they are original creative works authored by both parties. For standard transactions like buying homes/etc you can use a form-based contract, but only if it is embedded in a law (ie the government explicitly approves all standard contracts and their terms).

      Really this amounts to nothing more than actually enforcing the whole "meeting of the minds" bit which is supposed to be at the center of contract law anyway. There is no meeting of the minds when your boss says "sign this or I will fire you" or whatever.

    2. Re:Is there a larger issue here though? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AdBlock won't be an issue in the future, or so I suspect. More and more websites are making it a pain in the arse to view them when ads are blocked. So, in order to read the article, either you have to have better tools or knowledge to circumvent the ads, or you can just give up and let the ads flow.

    3. Re:Is there a larger issue here though? by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have often thought that a binding TOS / EULA should be mandated to take the following form, with very clear language:
      >>
      You agree not to distribute a bazillion copies of our software [Yes] [x No]
      You agree that we own your content [Yes] [x No]
      You agree that we are not liable for damage [Yes] [x No]
      You agree to not sue us if we lose your credit card information [Yes] [x No]

      I'm sorry, it seems we cannot agree on a contract. In particular, these terms are mandatory:
      * You agree not to distribute a bazillion copies of our software
      * You agree that we are not liable for damage
      * You agree not to sue us if we lose your credit card information
      The following would be stored as a user preference:
      * You agree that we own your content: NO (Note: May limit functionality)

    4. Re:Is there a larger issue here though? by redlemming · · Score: 1

      I have seen TOS contracts that (in non-digital format) would be dozens of pages long. Users simply click "Ok" with the assumption that "There's probably nothing bad in there". But this assumption is clearly false in a large number of cases when one considers privacy and security clauses.

      Legal professionals, as a class in society, are in a position of ethical conflict of interest with respect to the nature, scope, and form of the legal system.

      In the USA, the inability of the public to understand what should and should not be considered ethical for legal professionals has allowed this conflict of interest to create all sorts of problems within the legal system. It is not a huge stretch to say that "Of the people, by the people, and for the people" has morphed into "Of the lawyer, by the lawyer, and for the lawyer".

      In other words, as a results of ethics problems, the US legal system is an unholy mess.

      The ongoing attempt legal professionals have been making to infringe fundamental rights (such as privacy rights, the right to long term public oversight over business, the right to not have one's time wasted, and the right to not be subject to excessive law) through long, complex, difficult-to-read, and difficult-to-understand click-to-sign contracts is yet another aspect of this very serious ethics problem.

      Contract law is one of the foundations of legal practice, and in many ways is the bread-and-butter of the legal profession. If the legal professionals can make this aspect of the legal system more complex, and applicable to everybody in a wide variety of circumstances, they automatically increase the long term demand for the services of their profession. This creates an ethical conflict of interest with respect to the nature, scope, and form of contract law.

      In other words, the binding nature of current click-to-sign agreements (and shrink-wrap-licenses, which are often equally long, and equally infringing) can reasonably be presumed to be a reflection of unethical legal practice.

    5. Re:Is there a larger issue here though? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Happens all the time. It isn't stated that way. More like "if you sign this I'll keep paying you" and your salary is considered the consideration.

      Or "sign this and you'll get six months of severance pay, otherwise you get two weeks."

      This stuff happens all the time, and right now courts tend to back it up I think.

  59. Re:Feel good law for political gain by shentino · · Score: 1

    Both.

    Clothing bans are a stupid policy.

    That said, the bar still has the legal right to ban whoever the fuck they want to for no reason whatsoever. It's their bar and they'll run it as they darn please.

  60. It's how I got my ex in jail for life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Created a website, breaking the TOS was coming to it, and the penalty was jail for life.

  61. Re:No one reads the TOS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duh. My whole point was that no one is aware of the ToS.

  62. any trespassing cases based on odd store rules? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    any trespassing cases based on odd store rules out there??

    And let's say there is some whites only rule at one (let just say it's old but is still on the books or say on a sign that may be still up even if it's just for show or history) that can still be used as a part of a Throw the Book at someone in court.

    1. Re:any trespassing cases based on odd store rules? by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Store rules are actually a good way of looking at this sort of thing.

      If you do something really obnoxious in a store they can ask you to leave. If you refuse to do so they can call the police. You can of course sue the store for discrimination, and the police might not even make you leave if the basis for the removal is so egregious.

      Website TOS's should be similar. If somebody doesn't like what you're doing on their website they should ask you to leave, and if you cooperate then no crime has occurred. Unfortunately that isn't what this law was being used for - imagine if you wear a hat in a store that has a "no hats" policy and the owner just called the police, and they showed up, and then charged you with a felony for violating the store rules.

      Trespassing is only trespassing if somebody actually asks you to leave. Now, if you walk into a store and set fire to it then you can be arrested on the spot, but not for trespassing.

    2. Re:any trespassing cases based on odd store rules? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Trespassing is only trespassing if somebody actually asks you to leave.

      Not entirely. Disregarding properly posted notice is enough to trigger an arrest for trespassing. If you go wander into... say, MIT's server closet with a big "PRIVATE" sign on the door... the president of MIT doesn't have to come down to the server closet to let you know you're trespassing and ask you to leave. Unintentional trespass - say, wandering onto a farmer's land while taking a walk - would generally not have anything in the way of legal liability, though the farmer could STILL call the cops and get them to remove you from his property.

      the police might not even make you leave if the basis for the removal is so egregious.

      Actually, they would make you leave. If the owner of the store (or his duly appointed representative) wants you to leave, then he has the legal standing to have you removed from the store by law enforcement - he doesn't have to give you a reason. If you feel his reasons are discriminatory, you can certainly file a civil suit against him after you've been removed, but the police are not judges or juries or lawyers - If you own the property, you get to determine who can be there.

    3. Re:any trespassing cases based on odd store rules? by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 1

      You're exactly right.

      So, did that door have a big "PRIVATE" sign on it? No.

      Was it locked? No.

      Was it in a publicly accessible area? Yes.

      So, what was your point?

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    4. Re:any trespassing cases based on odd store rules? by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      I'm actually fine with having Aaron charged with trespassing for going in that server closet. However, that should really be a misdemeanor, as should be trespassing in general.

      In the US at least in most areas I could actually walk up to the store owner and punch him in the face and it would only be a misdemeanor, as long as I didn't proceed to beat him into a pulp, and I didn't have a history, and I didn't rob him/etc.

  63. Re:Great cases make bad law by Hatta · · Score: 1

    Making laws that affect millions of people need on ONE sensationalist case is how you end up with really bad law

    This is not just one bad case. Any of us could be Aaron Swartz. Fewer that 3% of those accused of a federal crime exercise their right to a trial. When was the last time the government was 97% accurate about anything? Ever? We know for a fact that we are imprisoning innocent people who are too afraid to go to trial. That needs to stop.

    Aaron didn't just violate a TOS. He physically entered a network closet he shouldn't have been in and hid computer equipment in there that crashed the network, so other people couldn't use it

    The bastard, clearly he deserves 35 years in prison for that.

    The prosecutor was asking for six months minimum security

    If the prosecutor thought 6 months was an appropriate punishment for what he did, she should have charged him with crimes where 6 months was the punishment and taken him to trial on that.

    New laws based on this case just aren't needed

    The need for new laws existed long before this case. Prosecutorial abuse is rampant in this country and it's time it's addressed.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  64. changing a IP so rebooting a modem can = lockup? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    changing a IP so rebooting a modem can = lockup?
    and MAC addresses most routers can clone macs from any system hooked to them and that dates back to the days of cable systems try to change per IP just like they have that BS outlet fee for each TV.

    That is why the laws need to change.

  65. Re:Great cases make bad law by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    minimum-security prison is no picnic. The trick is: kick someone's ass the first day, or become someone's bitch. Then everything will be all right.

  66. Re:Feel good law for political gain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They better not cry about it when they go out of business, then.

  67. Did anyone actually read this? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    First 30 posts, and nobody has actually realised what the problem is. This law is intended to make it illegal to hack into a computer. Which is fine. Of course I should be allowed to access a computer if I'm authorized. Which also makes sense. Now let's say Apple has their music and the customer accounts on the same computer. I'm authorized to access that computer (to download music), but if I somehow manage to put $100 into my account, that would be hacking which we want to be illegal. Even though I'm allowed to access the computer. So how do we put this into a law? They called it "exceeding my authorisation" and made it illegal.

    But now people have been claiming that doing something that is against the TOS is "exceeding my authorisation" and therefore illegal hacking. So if Slashdot's TOS said "you must not swear in any posts", then this post would be a bloody violation of these TOS and equivalent to computer hacking.

    A similar situation is this: Some employee has access to a customer list stored on the company's computer. It's part of his job (for example to send spam to customers). He sells the customer list to a competitor. Clearly a bad thing, and clearly in some way illegal. But now it is claimed that accessing the customer list on the computer exceeded his authorisation, so he is a computer hacker. No, he isn't.

    1. Re:Did anyone actually read this? by almitydave · · Score: 1

      Right, so if you do a Google image search, and use one of the results on your website, that violates Google's TOS and you're now a felon and if convicted can no longer vote nor own a firearm? Does the punishment fit the crime?

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
  68. William Blake by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1
    "Prisons are build with stones of the Law, brothels with bricks of religion".

    Prophetic.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  69. So no need to prosecute under T&Cs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seemed to be VERY easy to lose you.

    Why do you think that is?

  70. Pony! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Frankly I'd get rid of all contracts of adhesion.

    Yes. I would also like a pony.

  71. Re:Just make assholes illegal! by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    ABSOLUTE power corrupts, absolutely. That does not mean all levels of power will corrupt. The true measure of a man is what he does with power.

    --
    Good-bye
  72. Some Fixes by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

    1 having the first N pages be a set of boilerplate definitions (this causes you to go into a MEGO mode before any rules are stated)
    Fix: move those to the END of the doc

    2 stuff that hacks earlier clauses
    Fix: forbid later clauses from changing the nature of earlier clauses UNLESS there is a link/reference

    3 Use of nonstandard definitions of things like Week/Month/Year/Unlimited
    Fix: Webster overrides anything not "In the Context of the Normal Practice of the Business"

    4 EULA/TOS being way to long to read
    Fix you get 2 QRcodes (not counting the definitions part) with an allowed extra code for Business Corp and Personal rules

    5 Choose Your Own Adventure writing
    Fix: require these to be in separate blocks with the Personal (or smallest business) version being the template

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  73. Re:changing a IP so rebooting a modem can = lockup by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    I knew someone would say this. He changed his MAC for purposes of evading IT, that is the crime. Its like being at the mall and being told to leave so you put on a disguise and go back. If you are unmasked, you are getting arrested and charged with trespass.

    --
    Good-bye
  74. Re:Feel good law for political gain by cyberidian · · Score: 1

    It happens everyday to many other people. I know many people forced to take plea bargains for DUIs or traffic accidents to avoid excessive jail time. Why is no one making a big deal about them? The US Justice system is not perfect. It has flaws and people should challenge those flaws to improve it. However, hacking and breaching computer system security is still wrong. The US Government has a real obligation to ensure the security of the nation's computer systems. Swartz could have easily promoted his political opinions another way. Breaking the law was his choice.

  75. More Serious Than ToS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm curious what role or relationship Aaron had with MIT, if any. I've seen no indication of any authorization for Aaron to be in that network closet. This is a serious breach of network security in its own right. Universities deal with some quite sensitive infomation and quite a bit falling under various regulatory schema (PCI, FERPA, HIPAA, &c). The integrity of the network starts with good physical controls. He had a key to the IDF for f's sake. I'm quite suprised MIT did not appear to take this as a serious matter.

    I'm also having a bit of trouble lionizing this guy; if your going to take on the 'man' you have to have the balls to do it. This is not a battle for the sensitive.

  76. Re:Feel good law for political gain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one's arguing about breaking the law. We're only worried about the injustice of plea bargaining being used as blackmail by DAs to further their own careers.

  77. Petition to show support for bill by Zoe Lofgen by napsterization · · Score: 1

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reform-computer-fraud-and-abuse-act-reflect-realities-computing-and-networks-2013/qMvdwVNw And it's under the 25k rule for review by the White House. Yes.. they don't lead on legislation, but it's a great place to short support for her bill. Thanks,

  78. This was more than a TOS case. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do I think the AUSA in the Distruct of New York was too aggressive. Yes. Facing 30 years in prison, is no joke. Aaron Swartz did more than just violate a TOS. Aaron Swartz allegedly broke into a closet at MIT and tapped into JSTOR.

    There has to be a balance between what damage was done, whether the principal, not the agent, wants to push for prosecution and what are the damages. Intellectual property is a very serious business.

    I disagree with Zoe Lofgren about 99% of the time, but she's on the right track with this. I would recommend a tiered action, based upon damages. Someone copying and distributing CD's or DVD's illegally should get the 30 years, with a felony conviction. Someone doing illegal downloads? Depending on the quantity of material found, fine the person $10 a song, plus court costs or 30 days of incarceration, for each song or album, up to 100. At 99 cents a download from Amazon, or super cheap CD's and DVD's from EBay, there's no excuse to rip off music or movies.