Survey Suggests P2P Users Buy More Music

Big Shock by UltraZelda64 · 2013-01-20 16:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

Not all people are dumbasses, and some actually prefer to make sure that what they end up blowing their money is not complete garbage. Is that a crime?

Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Not all people are dumbasses,
[citation needed]
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:17 · Score: 5, Funny

You are not a dumbass, therefore not all people are dumbasses.
QED
Feel free to disagree with my premise.
Re:Big Shock by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-01-20 17:09 · Score: 4, Informative

"Is that a crime?"
It would seem so, since I saw similar survey results clear back in 2000... that is, 13 years ago.

The music industry has known about this. Their campaigns and lawsuits are not about fairness. They are about screwing as many people over for $$$ as possible.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:17 · Score: 4, Funny

What is this fallacy called? Proof by seduction?
Re:Big Shock by TrekkieGod · 2013-01-20 17:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

You are not a dumbass, therefore not all people are dumbasses.
QED
Feel free to disagree with my premise.
I will gladly do so.
Hey, if you tell me you've never done anything in your life that caused you to think, "man, I'm such a dumbass," then I'll know you're both a dumbass and a liar :)

--
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

People who put forth the effort to download music are more likly to have an interested in music.
Re:Big Shock by Genda · 2013-01-20 17:41 · Score: 5, Interesting

I don't think so. I think its way bigger. I think they want to have the right to control all media. They want to own "The Absolute Right" to control the traffic of all IP. This means draconian punishment for listening to/viewing owned media today, but in the future means that they will need to be paid every time you hear, or watch, or use, or make physical items from, or create Intellectual property (including the future IP involved in producing 3D printable goods.)
This is just one of the many corporate wars on what will be possible in the future. We will either build a robust free (as in liberty) system of trading IP not produced by the bankers, or our heads will be fitted with meters from birth and we'll never escape our indebted servitude. We'll either be exalted to the stars or die in the dust of our own greed and petty avarice. So while most people (52%) just regurgitate the stupid they're spoon fed at the theaters while they watch that 10 minute COKE commercials that they paid $15 to see, people with a measurable brain wave and an interest in something other than Jersey Shores, will mourn the loss of Aaron Swartz, and work diligently to preserve a future in which life is worth living.
Re:Big Shock by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-01-20 17:53 · Score: 1

"I don't think so. I think its way bigger. I think they want to have the right to control all media."
That's not bigger. It's actually a subset of what I was saying. Why would they want to control all media? One reason only: to screw as many people out of as much $$$ as possible.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 18:48 · Score: 0

And if they keep it up the problem will solve itself. They haven't made as much money since then at any point in the last decade or so.
I personally used to buy a ton of albums, now I buy basically one a year or less, from RIAA studios and that's just because I got homesick, for the last 7 or so years, I hadn't bought any at all from them.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

So while most people (52%) just regurgitate the stupid they're spoon fed

The problem is, this happens for 100% of people, just in different categories of stupid.
Show me the man who understands why the *AA are wrong and copyright law needs reform, and I'll find you something else he's merely parroting about.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:46 · Score: 0

But having refused to concede that a particular moment in his life defines his nature would indicate that he is not a dumbass!
But he is not you... but... he might be one counter-example, which is really all we need, right?
Oh god, brain shut down imminent...
Re:Big Shock by shentino · 2013-01-20 19:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Nobody will listen to studies like this, because the producers with a deathgrip on the market don't care about profits. They care about control of the market.
Which is why they get all whiny and bitchy at TWO things:
1. piracy
2. artists bypassing them and going directly to customers
As far as they are concerned, it doesn't matter if money is dodging their own pockets by fair means or foul.
They don't just want to succeed. They also want everyone else to fail.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:54 · Score: 0

You are not a dumbass, therefore not all people are dumbasses.
QED
Feel free to disagree with my premise.
What does quantum electro-dynamics have to do with it?
Re:Big Shock by shentino · 2013-01-20 20:10 · Score: 1

Surprisingly that doesn't prove anything.
At best it's a case of *inductive* reasoning that assumes among other things that everyone has done dumbass things.
Re:Big Shock by philipmather · 2013-01-20 22:06 · Score: 2

You've made an unfounded assumption that Anonymous Coward is a person, you'll need a citation for that as we all know that on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

--
Regards, Phil
Re:Big Shock by Bert64 · 2013-01-20 22:13 · Score: 1

The problem from the greedy and arrogant perspective of the movie industry, is that p2p users tend to be far more discerning as they will often try before they buy... That is, while they may well buy more music overall they are far less likely to purchase the drivel that is cheaper (and thus more profitable) for the industry to produce.

--
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Re:Big Shock by bzipitidoo · 2013-01-20 22:47 · Score: 1

I think there's more to it than $ or even control. The entertainment moguls are a bunch of dumb cowardly dinosaurs, trying to turn back the clock, hang on to a lost world or perhaps a world that never was, which they believe they like and think they understand. Never mind whether it makes sense, or is fair. Or that it would lead to stagnation and decline, and threaten our children. That takes more than any amount of money and power can accomplish, but this detail doesn't seem to have dissuaded them from trying to grab all they can to swing the biggest hammer money can buy at this imaginary problem. They have a frightful amount of expertise in working us and our systems in order to pursue this nightmare.
The question is, are we going to heed them? Our survival may depend upon us not following where they lead. Aaron Swartz had the right ideas, and the entrenched powers drove him to suicide. If Climate Change is a serious problem, and we can't freely apply our best solutions thanks to us being too obedient to opposition from entrenched interests in the form of ridiculous extrapolations of property rights to the immaterial, too willing to fall for their dangerously wrong fantasies and siren songs about the way life ought to be, then perhaps we deserve what's coming. We're too stuck in our wasteful, unsustainable lifestyles, and if we won't change our ways, nature will change them for us with no guarantee any of us will survive. We figured out what happened to the dinosaurs, but we haven't done all we could to make sure the same doesn't happen to us. Another killer meteor could be headed our way. Are we smarter than the dinosaurs? Then there's still the specter of nuclear war. And there are other problems. If we are alone in the universe, is it because it really is that difficult to for life to reach our level? Or is it not so hard, and what's hard is yet to come, and other intelligent life blew it and are no more?

--
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
Re:Big Shock by Joce640k · 2013-01-20 22:52 · Score: 1

52% of Americans also said that downloading infringing content should be a punishable offense.
Most Americans when asked would like to see more healthy food choices at McDonalds.
Would they actually buy them? Nope, they'd just like to see them before ordering their bucket of mechanically recovered chicken chunks.

--
No sig today...
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 23:12 · Score: 0

> Is that a crime?
Yes, because are probably not blowing your money on media produced by MAFIAA members.
Re:Big Shock by yotto · 2013-01-20 23:37 · Score: 2

So what you're saying is that no person on Earth has formed a 100% informed opinion about every single issue, idea, or viewpoint known to man?
I agree.

--
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 00:42 · Score: 0

I think it's different than that: I think "music" is a life-cycle product. That is, there is a stage of one's life during which the discovery and enjoyment of music is very dynamic, after which you learn what you like, find more demanding ways to spend your time, and enter what might be called a maintenance phase. A long winded way of saying "Teenagers and young adults consume more music than older people."
Old folks don't stop buying music because they've discovered torrents, they stop because they have a substantial collection that largely satisfies their need. Or their listening is superseded by their kids.
Meanwhile, kids have a voracious appetite for music, and it doesn't much matter whether it comes from torrents, legal downloads, or concerts.
Re:Big Shock by fa2k · 2013-01-21 01:37 · Score: 1

People who put forth the effort to download music are more likly to have an interested in music.
This is a more plausible argument. There are plenty of ways to sample (big label) music legally for free, and easier than Bittorrent.
Re:Big Shock by kelemvor4 · 2013-01-21 02:41 · Score: 1

"Is that a crime?"
It would seem so, since I saw similar survey results clear back in 2000... that is, 13 years ago. The music industry has known about this. Their campaigns and lawsuits are not about fairness. They are about screwing as many people over for $$$ as possible.
I don't think they're necessarily out to screw people. I think they want to get as much $$$ as possible, and they don't care if it screws people in the process (or not). All the screwing is just a side effect. That's how business is done these days, and is a fundamental flaw in large entities such as MPAA/RIAA. Now that ethics aren't a factor in business, the only motivator is money. The only rare exception would be if you had a privately held company and the owner(s) believed that making money at all costs was not the overarching goal.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 03:44 · Score: 0

So I can break into your email account and view its contents before paying for access from the blacknet, to enable me to try before buying. That's okay, right? I mean a catchy slogan like "buy before try" shouldn't just be limited to doing things you want to do in complete ignorance of the actual method of trying, right?
Re:Big Shock by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · 2013-01-21 03:47 · Score: 1

You are not a dumbass, therefore not all people are dumbasses.
QED
Feel free to disagree with my premise.
What does quantum electro-dynamics have to do with it?
Applying its principles to this discussion will result in the "Big Shock" referred to in the headline.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 04:23 · Score: 0

The music industry has known about this. Their campaigns and lawsuits are not about fairness.
And, apparently, their campaigns and lawsuits are not even about maximizing revenue.
If P2P correlates with increasing sales, then the music industry is actively acting against its own financial interests in attempting to shut it down.
P2P might very well save the music industry, if the industry would only allow it. It's quite ionic that the music industry's failure to shut down P2P could be the very key to its survival.
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 05:48 · Score: 0

Challenge accepted!
Sure I have some awesome skills in a few areas, but outside of that I am a total dumbass. That's my general observation of humanity: general sea of dumbassery with a few isolated islands of competence or even excellence.
Re:Big Shock by UltraZelda64 · 2013-01-21 07:18 · Score: 2

I think the only "punishment" that should be done is a police officer taking the "criminal" to the store and forcing them to buy whatever album they downloaded. If they downloaded Britney Spears, then embarrassment may obviously be a part of the punishment. Once bought, the person should be forced to open it so they can't just take it back for a full refund, and the receipt should be confiscated.
Simple, and amusing. Why insist upon millions of dollars worth of damage when you could just fuck with them instead, creating no permanent record and not destroying lives? And used CDs, which already had their share transferred to the rights holders, should be valid too--they're perfectly legal too!
Of course... it is much more fun to use the full extent of the law possible to nail them into the ground, fuck their lives, as long as they get their 12 bucks from the latest shitty pop album...
Re:Big Shock by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 10:14 · Score: 0

Your premise is flawed; it assumes the subject is a person.
Re:Big Shock by Omestes · 2013-01-21 12:52 · Score: 1

Problem: While people who use P2P might buy more music, they might not buy more music from big labels.
I will admit that I use P2P to demo music (30sec snippets aren't enough), and I now spend more money on music than at any previous point in my life, I haven't bought a single album from an RIAA label in over 7 years. Most of my music is from small, independent, labels or directly from bands. I'm not boycotting RIAA labels, I just legitimately haven't really found anything I like, if I found a good album, I'd buy it. Further, most of my money now goes to live music and merch, and not physical albums, or even digital downloads.
I'm older, and most RIAA labels only produce pop music, and "hip" music. I'm not in that market anymore. So none of it appeals to me, much.
Piracy (in the try-before-you-buy sense) is bad for them. It leads to greater exposure, which leads to broader spending habits, which very well might lead to smaller profits.

--
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Re:Big Shock by TranquilVoid · 2013-01-21 13:54 · Score: 1

Similarly, the guy down the corner shop strategically places lollies at child eye height and so on. The only reason is to screw as many people over for $$$s as possible. Or possibly that's just business and we all know it? Fairness doesn't enter into it, or it wouldn't be capitalism, although we may expect regulators/government to moderate somewhat.
Labels currently have a right over their IP and it's the long view of protecting this that drives their behaviour, not short-term litigation profits. The most interesting part of the survey results is that only 4-13% of people believe all copying to be ethical so the law does reflect the population's opinion (you can get the opposite impression reading Slashdot). If that ever flips we may see the right to control copies disappear.
Re:Big Shock by RivenAleem · 2013-01-23 01:33 · Score: 1

You make the mistake of splitting your argument into 2 points. They are one and the same thing. Piracy IS the method by which artists can bypass them and go directly to customers.

Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:01 · Score: 5, Interesting

I hated Far Cry 2, thought it was a terrible game and regretted buying it. A few weeks back I saw a stream of Far cry 3 and thought it looked fun so torrented it. This lead to be really enjoying the game and completing the pirated version, which lead me to buy it for Co Op, with another friend who bought it on my recommendation and a 3rd who grabbed it after.

I pirated 1 copy of the game (-£0)
I sold 3 copies (+75)

Ubisoft can thank me later.

Re:Far cry 3 by Genda · 2013-01-20 17:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

You missed something, what part of they still want the $25 for the pirated copy plus damages for circumventing their business model is unclear. In the eyes of purveyors in this society today... you are an end-looser. A guy in China ate a bowl of spicy soup that burned a hole though his stomach because the restaurant was able to shave a few pennies off of the more expensive chili paste by buying a cheap chemical substitute, that just turned out to be lethal. To the modern corporation you are simply a resource to be bled dry and discarded (at both ends of the buy and sell equation.) Your labor is bought wholesale, and sold to users by the corporation at retail. You buy other services and products from corporations at retail prices for which they buy or manufacture for wholesale or less. Labor is a commodity, they buy life insurance policies on you hoping you'll die and make them a windfall. When profit supersedes humanity, the final use of human beings is predictably inhumane.
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:07 · Score: 0

I pirated 1 copy of the game (-£0)
I sold 3 copies (+75)
You need to tell me where you guys bought those games! None of the stores I've been to accept plain numbers as a currency.
Re:Far cry 3 by rjr162 · 2013-01-20 23:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

And if the co-op had worked with the pirated version? Would you had still purchased the legit copy?
Re:Far cry 3 by Ash+Vince · 2013-01-21 00:10 · Score: 1

Ubisoft can thank me later.
They will, the subpoena for the illegal copy you downloaded is in the post :)

--
I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
Re:Far cry 3 by AmiMoJo · 2013-01-21 00:39 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm glad we have avoided going down that road in Europe. We have strong employment laws that prevent us being treated like cattle, for example, and strong consumer protection laws that prevent companies leeching off us. It isn't perfect but it does for the most part work quite well.
That's why I feel bad for Americans when they talk about such laws taking away their freedom to made deals. The employee and the consumer are almost always the weaker party, easy for the corporation they are trying to strike a bargain with to crush. Sure enough American workers have few rights and few holidays, and often no sick leave*, and consumers get boned all the time.
* Did you know that in Europe if you take holiday time off work and get sick, you can get the holiday time back? Holiday time necessary for a human being's mental wellbeing, employers have to pick up the cost of people being sick (within reason).

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 01:15 · Score: 0

You suggestion that socialistic policies are way better are off.
The first thing to remember is that in the US in some states, you can actually do a contract that you want. It's not like there are three parties, where the 3rd (government) tells you that the contract must have these and these clauses, as is the case with European countries. Nobody is forcing anybody to accept contracts that they do not like. If you accept a contract you are essentially also agreeing with the company policies.
The 2nd thing is that what happens in Europe should you get hurt by a product? Are you going to sue the company or perhaps complaint to the government? I would guess your first action is that you will complain to the government in hopes of the government doing something for you. In the US you would directly sue the company in hopes for a big check.
I absolutely agree with free and sick time being absolutely essential to all parties - some companies have extremely generous paid holidays and sick days. What I do not agree is the reasoning, that these should be dictated by bureaucrats. Instead of teaching kids to rely to government to come to the rescue, instructing to sue and demand better treatment would be a lot more effective.
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 01:52 · Score: 0

I'm glad we have avoided going down that road in Europe.
Not so true I'm afraid. Here in Greece things are getting out of hand with low-paid part time jobs. I know at least a bunch of people that work 16 hours a week (4 days/4 hours a day) that get paid 210-280 euros per month. Unemployment among younger people [18-24] is officially at 60% so practically most are willing to work for as little as that. In reality it is a bit lower than that though since a lot of people do not register as workers if they can avoid it - mainly for the benefit of the employer (no insurance) and secondarily for the employee (translates to "more cash"). ...And the worst have yet to come I think.
Sadly, this is a model that will eventually spread to other parts of Europe as well.
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 03:43 · Score: 0

Gosh, so if not co-op you wouldn't pay for it. And that's how single player games died.
Because of stupid "no one lost anything when I completed pirated game" retards.
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 04:08 · Score: 1

No, we don't _suggest_ that it's better, we've provided you with the hard numbers that prove it's better.
What's happened here is that you believe a bunch of stuff that's untrue. And because you're committed to believing in it, when we point out that the facts are the opposite of what you require, you just insist the facts are wrong. But the universe doesn't care, it does not give a flying fuck what you want to believe.
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 04:13 · Score: 0

The situation in Greece is that the Greeks as a culture won't pay for what they want. Paying your fair share is seen as being a "sucker". When they were economically independent that meant their country was a shit hole, and everybody who could left. Having spent the German's money for a decade or so they're now going back to that situation. Too bad, maybe time to learn how to pay for the things you want next time.
It takes amazing cognitive dissonance to protest against government spending cuts and then go back to claiming to be unemployed to avoid tax. But that's OK, the Americans above demonstrate that cognitive dissonance is popular with the simple-minded.
Re:Far cry 3 by Jawnn · 2013-01-21 04:15 · Score: 1

A guy in China ate a bowl of spicy soup that burned a hole though his stomach because the restaurant was able to shave a few pennies off of the more expensive chili paste by buying a cheap chemical substitute, that just turned out to be lethal.
That's the free market at work, pal. All the Rand fan-boys here on /. will thank you to stop suggesting that the real world doesn't really work the way that their messiah envisioned it, you insensitive clod.
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 04:15 · Score: 0

Single player died because it takes a lot less effort to make multiplayer last longer. One more hour of singleplayer either means new content or pointless filler/retreading, while multiplayer just requires making sure gameplay is fun enough to hook people for another hour.
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 06:36 · Score: 0

The situation in Greece is that the Greeks as a culture won't pay for what they want. Paying your fair share is seen as being a "sucker". When they were economically independent that meant their country was a shit hole, and everybody who could left. Having spent the German's money for a decade or so they're now going back to that situation. Too bad, maybe time to learn how to pay for the things you want next time.
It takes amazing cognitive dissonance to protest against government spending cuts and then go back to claiming to be unemployed to avoid tax. But that's OK, the Americans above demonstrate that cognitive dissonance is popular with the simple-minded.
Sadly your views on the Greek economic matters are skewed by what the mainstream media is broadcasting. The fact is that the Greek debt is mainly public debt (as in "created by the Greek state") and not private debt therefore indicating a highly corrupt political system rather than cumulative chaos created by dishonest public philosophies.
Your argument regarding the "sucker" mentality holds some merit but the hypothesis that "Greeks as a culture won't pay for what they want" does not. I would add to that "if someone else is not paying too". This is why tax evasion is also high: when tax reductions apply only to the highest income ranges the people that fall in the lower income ranges will avoid to pay taxes by all means. It makes sense, doesn't it?
Re:Far cry 3 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 07:45 · Score: 0

In China? Do you proofread what you post, or are you simply programmed to think "free market == bad"?
Re:Far cry 3 by robsku · 2013-01-21 07:47 · Score: 1

That's worthy of *applause*

--
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
Re:Far cry 3 by Jawnn · 2013-01-21 09:50 · Score: 1

In China? Do you proofread what you post, or are you simply programmed to think "free market == bad"?
China participates in mythical "global free market". They routinely and deliberately foist inferior or outright dangerous products on unsuspecting consumers. Those consumers, being ignorant of those defects, and having no reasonable means to educate themselves other than after-the-fact, can not participate in a "free market". So, no. I am not programmed to think "free market ==bad". I know, for a fact, that "free market == impossible".

So... by Arancaytar · 2013-01-20 16:02 · Score: 1

I wonder how many of those 52% actually download infringing content on a regular basis.

Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:20 · Score: 0

I wonder if they feel copying their own professionally shot wedding pictures should be punishable. In many cases it's equally illegal.
Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:27 · Score: 0

it all depends on the wording of the survey questions, how they're delivered, and how the participants are chosen.
Re:So... by Rockoon · 2013-01-20 16:27 · Score: 1

More to the point, we can translate the headline into:

"Survey suggests that people that show an active interest in media buy more media"

--
"His name was James Damore."
Re:So... by torkus · 2013-01-20 20:06 · Score: 1

I wonder where that 52% came from. In my experience a large percentage of people engage in piracy openly and without remorse. Plenty more are indifferent.
52% of politicians on the MAFIAA dole said piracy should be punishable?
52% of 65+ upper class?
Or did they present punishment as a monetary fine equal to the value of what was downloaded instead of the 250000x that it is today
I *loathe* misused statistics like this. 4 our of 5 doctors agree. The 5th one we fired.

--
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 20:27 · Score: 1

"10 out of 11 doctors agree: Fish fingers with custard tastes awful."
Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 20:41 · Score: 0

But not necessarily equally unethical.
Re:So... by zAPPzAPP · 2013-01-21 06:26 · Score: 2

10 out of 1 doctors approve human cloning.

Control for interests? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:03 · Score: 1

Might as well posit that people who steal cigarettes buy more tobacco products.

Re:Control for interests? by Runaway1956 · 2013-01-20 17:03 · Score: 0

Does not compute. Theft of a physical, tangible asset != making a duplicate of that asset. The so-called "theft" of digital goods = making a duplicate of that good, which in no way detracts from anyone's inventory, assets, or ability to continue selling those goods.

--
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Re:Control for interests? by Genda · 2013-01-20 17:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

You have to understand the mentality... they've been raping and robbing artists for a hundred years. So when you're dealing with cheats and criminals, all they can see is when they aren't getting paid its a crime and you must be cheating them. Its called projecting and its as common as sunrise. Problem only exists when these scum bags buy laws codifying and ultimately imposing their criminality on society.
Re:Control for interests? by shentino · 2013-01-20 19:58 · Score: 1

Once they buy the laws it isn't a crime anymore.
Re:Control for interests? by jones_supa · 2013-01-20 20:47 · Score: 1

Does not compute. Theft of a physical, tangible asset != making a duplicate of that asset. The so-called "theft" of digital goods = making a duplicate of that good, which in no way detracts from anyone's inventory, assets, or ability to continue selling those goods.
By that argument, should Steam online game downloads then be free too (or just cover the bandwidth costs)?
They can send unlimited copies of the product too without running out of inventory.
Re:Control for interests? by Runaway1956 · 2013-01-20 20:55 · Score: 1

Ahhh, but you're no longer talking about a published game, so much as a "service". But, I don't much like that distinction, because companies like Steam are purposely moving away from published content, toward services. I'm not real sure how to deal with that - except that I don't subscribe. I have only one subscription, it's pretty cheap, and if something happens to it, I'll be a bit pissed, but I'll get over it quickly.
People who have several hundreds, or even thousands of dollars "invested" in Steam don't seem real bright to me. They play at Steam's whim, with absolutely no guarantees that the content will be available tomorrow.

--
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Re:Control for interests? by jones_supa · 2013-01-20 21:33 · Score: 1

Well, my same question could be asked for GOG.com.
Re:Control for interests? by N!k0N · 2013-01-20 23:57 · Score: 1

Way I figure it with GOG, I'm paying them about $5.00 (or, rather, $4.99) for their offered services:

- Packaged Installer
- PDF copies of any relevant documents for the game (user guide, quick reference card, etc)
- "Key Generators" to replace any card-based references -- e.g. the "star chart" wheel from "Starflight"
- Bandwidth
- Taking the time to fight with DOSBOX, so I don't have to for *every* game

Once I have the game on my HDD, GOG doesn't care what I do with it (barring re-distribution ... I'm OK with that). Full details
Re:Control for interests? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 00:36 · Score: 0

People who have several hundreds, or even thousands of dollars "invested" in Steam don't seem real bright to me. They play at Steam's whim, with absolutely no guarantees that the content will be available tomorrow.
Yeah, we understand that. I'm totally aware that steam could be gone tomorrow, and all the games i have in steam also.(actually not all, they are all on my computer, and you don't need to have steam client running to play some of them)
I'm using steam because it's _easy_. Steam is way easier than warez releases, easier than physically going to the store and buying boxed copy, easier than ordering physical copy. I see a game i might enjoy, have the funds, it's 1-20 minutes of downloading and i'm playing. I pay for that. It's not like most of the games have any replay value anyways.
Re:Control for interests? by tverbeek · 2013-01-21 01:58 · Score: 3, Informative

In your knee-jerk parroting of the "filesharing isn't theft" semantic argument, you missed the AC's point: to be meaningful the survey would need to control for the users' level of interest.

This is a classic example of the correlation-equals-causation fallacy. While it's being trumpeted by filesharers as proof that it results in people paying for more music and movies, it can just as easily be interpreted as indicating that people who are sufficiently into commercial media that they spend 30% more money on it, also fileshare it. Which would be totally unsurprising, and also a lot less of a challenge to the MAFIAA's argument, because it's possible that these people would've spent 40% more if they didn't have access to stuff without paying. Or maybe not. This survey doesn't tell us.

Don't be like a Creationist, looking for and latching onto any dubious study that seems to support the belief you already hold. Demand – as AC suggested – better studies that control for interest, to show whether or not your religious beliefs are sound or not.

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http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Re:Control for interests? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 15:53 · Score: 0

You have to understand the mentality... they've been raping and robbing artists for a hundred years. So when you're dealing with cheats and criminals, all they can see is when they aren't getting paid its a crime and you must be cheating them. Its called projecting and its as common as sunrise. Problem only exists when these scum bags buy laws codifying and ultimately imposing their criminality on society.
Gosh, I never knew every recording artist in the music industry was a victim of sexual abuse. That's really awful to hear

e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Zombie+Ryushu · 2013-01-20 16:10 · Score: 1, Flamebait

This goes to show that more than half of the USian population believes in the tyranny produced by the power elite and believe in punishing people for non-crimes. That the population of the US is so badly educated and brainwashed that they believe these things. It goes to show that the US is not a civilized nation with rational, reasonable laws that make sense in any sense of the word.

Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by mooingyak · 2013-01-20 16:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

This goes to show that more than half of the USian population believes in the tyranny produced by the power elite and believe in punishing people for non-crimes. That the population of the US is so badly educated and brainwashed that they believe these things. It goes to show that the US is not a civilized nation with rational, reasonable laws that make sense in any sense of the word.
Waves hand.
I believe downloading infringing material should be punishable.
I also believe that the current penalties are absurd and way out of proportion with the offense.
And, just for the hell of it, I also think current RIAA anti-piracy efforts are counter productive and they should instead focus on delivering their content in ways that make infringement less appealing, rather than ramping up DRM and suing people.
But hey that's just me supporting the tyranny of the power elite.

--
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by fredprado · 2013-01-20 16:32 · Score: 1

But hey that's just me supporting the tyranny of the power elite.
Unfortunately yes, it still is. Although I should commend you for doing it in a sensible way.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:38 · Score: 0

It's not tyrannic.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by poity · 2013-01-20 16:45 · Score: 1

Interestingly, if you look at the comparisons on the latter half of the report, German internet users are more likely to support blocking copyright infringement, and support heavier fines, than their US counterparts.

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your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:47 · Score: 0

Censorship, loss of real property rights, and numerous abuses of power (domains get confiscated without any due process, businesses have their servers confiscated for ridiculous reasons, etc.). The first two problems exist under any copyright system. Sounds pretty tyrannical to me.
Ah, well. Thanks to the Internet, copyright is now practically unenforceable (maybe unless you resort to draconian measures that hurt even innocents, but such a system would be harmful, wouldn't it?). You people have lost.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by poity · 2013-01-20 16:50 · Score: 1

Hear hear. If they they would make low res/low bit rate streams of their content freely available, even with ads, they'd get many more people on their side, and those who pirate films/music would have no more legit excuses to hide behind.

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your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:53 · Score: 0

Did you expect more out of a populace that tolerates the TSA, Patriot Act, free speech zones, and ridiculous copyright lengths? People who support copyright are mere brainwashed imbeciles.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Runaway1956 · 2013-01-20 17:09 · Score: 1

Ohh, good idea. Give away shit copies of your work, then no one will want to steal your real work.
That's just batfuck crazy. Let's go back to "entertainment". If/when you entertain the people, the people will reward you. When you stop being entertaining, the people will stop rewarding you. Sing and dance, then at the end of the day, you can count the coins in your money bowl. If the money isn't adequate to your needs, then you need to learn how to sing and dance in an entertaining way. The world doesn't owe you a living just because you sing and dance to the tune of some corporate big shot.

--
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Runaway1956 · 2013-01-20 17:11 · Score: 2

Nope. People who support SANE copyright laws aren't brainwashed. We are willing to reward artists for original stuff. Give them their copyright for a decade or so, give or take a little.
Life plus 100 years (or any variation on that theme) is just insane.

--
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by grcumb · 2013-01-20 17:43 · Score: 0

Ohh, good idea. Give away shit copies of your work, then no one will want to steal your real work.
That's just batfuck crazy. Let's go back to "entertainment". If/when you entertain the people, the people will reward you.
Seconded. Nothing drives me crazier than people who think anti-features build any kind of goodwill, ever.
It's a bit like serving free draft but making customers pay for the bartender to stop pissing in it....
... then again, most of you are Americans, so you would never know the difference.

--
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:51 · Score: 0

oh for fuck's sake.
Equating your sense of entitlement that Britney Spears' new album should be free with slavery is morally repugnant and ludicrous even if we make wide allowances for your stupidity.
Please go stick your head in a jet engine.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Genda · 2013-01-20 18:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

This is STUPID... I can go over to Spotify for free this very second and listen to nearly anything my heart desires. Then when I hear something I just love, I listen to the whole album, and I find damn that's wonderful and I BUY IT because I want it in high fidelity. Or its a piece of rancid wombat feces and I flush it. I buy tremendously more music this way, try things I would never consider buying then go wow, that's not bad and a sale is made that wasn't ever gonna happen.
So the media moguls don't give a flying fsck about selling content. They care about controlling access and creating artificial scarcity so they can bleed the public. That is all, there is no sane argument to the contrary, no meaningful defense, no "But, what about..." There are only two futures, the Spotifys will inherit the earth or the current Media Moguls will legislate free (as in liberty) access into oblivion.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Genda · 2013-01-20 18:17 · Score: 2, Funny

That's the point... the corporate powers will just keep moving it out further and further until its life plus the time to the universe's heat death. This is three card monty with the future. If you have a burning pain in your rectum its because a CEO somewhere is raping you, and you might consider that he hasn't even bothered to send you roses.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by AK+Marc · 2013-01-20 18:42 · Score: 1

Define Tyrannic. I read Websters, and it meets my interpretation of the definition.

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Learn to love Alaska
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by shentino · 2013-01-20 20:05 · Score: 4, Informative

You don't have a choice.
The 99 percent police crackdown proved that the elite are willing and able to use force to silence their critics. Said elite also hold a collective monopoly on the mass media that wanna-be politicians need to get elected.
Finally, the elite use their money to support whichever candidate will kiss their ass, and they threaten to support the opposition if they don't. You either kiss their ass or get sold out to someone who will.
The only way you will get into a federal office is with the backing of the power elite. If they don't like you, they will:
a) Bankroll your opponent's campaign
b) Refuse you air time entirely
c) Violently suppress your wanna-be constituents
The power elite already have the country by the balls and they know it.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 22:14 · Score: 0

I believe downloading infringing material should be punishable.
Why? Because you deprived them of a government-guaranteed monopoly of sale?
Fuck them. They want to restrict our internet. They want to be able to monitor what you do. They want to be paid by you, over and over and over again.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Bert64 · 2013-01-20 22:56 · Score: 1

Ramping up DRM and suing people is only happening in the west, where infringement rates are relatively low anyway and the laws are easily bought and heavily stacked against end customers...
Over in asia and eastern europe where copying is far more common, they are actually competing by making content more easily and cheaply available.

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http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by fredprado · 2013-01-21 01:06 · Score: 1

Lets see. Tyranny means that someone has usurped the power and exerts it in an oppressive way. In democracy the power comes from and should be exerted for the people.

Well, corporations have laws and the government enforcement disproportionally protecting their interests and can actually buy politicians and governments. Furthermore justice is unaffordable to all but themselves. More and more power is exerted from them and for them. First point checked.

Power has also been exerted oppressively. Check the draconian prosecutions of people that go against the interests of corporations, like Aaron Schwartz, and all the people who ended paying millions for downloading a few musics.

And before you say that it is still much better than working camps, just wait and see. Things can and will get much worse yet as long as people just remain apathetic.
Re:e.g. 52% of Americans believe in thought crime. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 07:47 · Score: 0

I believe downloading infringing material should be punishable.
Return copyright to 14 years and I'll agree with that.

Survey Suggests by checkitout · 2013-01-20 16:14 · Score: 2

Survey suggests P2P Users lie through their teeth. Who is going to answer a survey about illicit activity honestly?

Re:Survey Suggests by QuietLagoon · 2013-01-20 16:25 · Score: 2

And the RIAA apparently knows that online P2P is not the major source of privacy.
Re:Survey Suggests by poity · 2013-01-20 16:25 · Score: 1

I can imagine if they started with questions about piracy habits first, that people would likely try to cover their asses later on when they got to asking about purchasing habits. Took a glance at the PDF and saw only 4 or 5 of the survey questions, but they didn't mention how, or in what order, they were asked.

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your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Re:Survey Suggests by rtb61 · 2013-01-20 17:04 · Score: 1

I don't P2P and I buy zero music. I started to hear the greed, the narcissism, crappy lyrics and, repetitive rhythms. I started to get really put of by drunken, drugged up minstrels thinking and carrying on like they are the most special people in the world. It got all so boring, seriously 'BORING', that listening to car noise, the sounds of nature, the background hum of the metropolitan environment became preferable.
You want lying through their teeth, the MTV and the whole industry basically bullshits about every single thing to do with it. As an industry it has had it's day and should be passed over as utterly defective and worthless.

--
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Re:Survey Suggests by Runaway1956 · 2013-01-20 17:19 · Score: 2

Well, a survey wasn't necessary to determine that RIAA and MPAA lie through their teeth. If we were to believe THEIR lies, they and all their member corporations would have been bankrupted with the advent of the internet. They've already lost more money from the year 2000 to the year 2005 than they've made between the years 1990 and 2010. WTF?

--
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Re:Survey Suggests by Xeno+man · 2013-01-20 17:46 · Score: 1

Fuck, the internet? It's been the same song and dance since any recording device has been available. When the cassette tape recorders was released there was lawsuits claiming the same thing. They lost that but didn't die. VHS recorders released, same thing. DVD burners, computers, Napster, the internet. It's been the same song and dance because if they ever get their way, they can make more money.
Re:Survey Suggests by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 18:03 · Score: 0

Yeah, it would be like surveying priests to see who is a pedophile...., the survey will show none of them are, and yet more and more of them end up in prison
Re:Survey Suggests by Genda · 2013-01-20 18:32 · Score: 1

There are so many fine indie groups now, and their music has variation, its clever, slick and honestly grittier and more intelligent than the homogenized, pasteurized, sanitized for your convenience white bread musical sewage they crap out of the radio these days through the roboplayers that are 99% of the stations airing today. I have a large network of friends of diverse age and culture. So I can find some sweet new grass band, get a msg to check out some nuevo flamenco, then listen to a classical rock band like Cosby Stills and Nash on their website. All my favorite bands now out of the media spotlight are still making amazing music to be had online. Music is alive and well, you just can't hear it through a Clear Channel Station. So stop trying. If you find a good station.. in the Bay Area we have KFOG, real people, real music, then enjoy, otherwise go hunting, the wilds are full of great performers to be cherished and enjoyed.
Re:Survey Suggests by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:00 · Score: 0

Indeed, the bigger problem tends to be finding the good ones. They generally don't have marketing campaigns and guest appearances on talk shows to support them.
Years back, I liked weedshare, it was a clever idea, the tracks themselves are free to share with whomever you like, but you had a limited number of times you could listen without paying. You'll never see that sort of innovation from a major label. They're too focused on tricking people into buying subpar music.
Re:Survey Suggests by rtb61 · 2013-01-20 19:13 · Score: 1

Seriously why waste all that time and effort trying to find it. Too me the best music has always been that shared with good company and that in reality is regardless of the quality of the music. So pfft, fuck it all, it's just background, the activity and the people in the foreground is what counts.

--
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Re:Survey Suggests by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:18 · Score: 0

Madness - The only band to ever cause an earthquake.
Re:Survey Suggests by shentino · 2013-01-20 20:07 · Score: 1

Darn straight it's not a source of privacy.
Dratted IP addresses gaping like goatse out in the open.
That is why everyone should torrent via Tor.
Re:Survey Suggests by AmiMoJo · 2013-01-21 00:47 · Score: 1

Music sales have been decreasing for quite some time now, but not due to piracy. People listen to music on streaming services like Spotify and Pandora, or on YouTube, instead of buying it. When they do buy they can now get just the tracks they want, instead of having to buy the whole album or a crappy CD single with five terrible remixes on it.
I bet the amount of music people listen to now is about the same or has even gone up, it is just the amount sold that is going down. I expect that if you look at the distribution of sales it has shifted downwards from the manufactured popstars to more varied smaller artists too, because now the barriers the big labels put in place to prevent people finding them (e.g. payola) are being circumvented.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

Music Today- of little interest by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:18 · Score: 0

The problem is that for my generation there is hardly anything of interest being released let alone want to buy.

'My Generation'? Yep, I'm of that generation. Who, Stones, Hendrix and all that.

We will have pretty well everything we want to listen to
- on 12in Vinyl
- on Cassette
- on CD

So why would I even bother to look inside music stores(if you can find one these days) or browse online stores when we know that there is nothing for us of interest?
Ok, the likes of Joe Bonamassa are making stuff I want to listen to these are small fry compared to the huge volume of shite that is around today.

Now if the record companies would release some of the old John Mayall live sets esp the one where Eric Clapton featured and their 1969 set at the Marquee then I'd be interested otherwise, Meh! I'll pass.

Re:Music Today- of little interest by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:46 · Score: 0

The problem is that for my generation there is hardly anything of interest being released let alone want to buy.
What a sad comment from a self-described music lover. I guess for you, music just stopped somewhere around 1978, huh?
If you can't find any music that's being released today that's good, then you're not looking. That's just sheer laziness masquerading as "selective taste."
Re:Music Today- of little interest by Genda · 2013-01-20 18:46 · Score: 1

Darlin', I'm only a skip ahead of you... and I enjoyed all these guys too, though I was a wee tot at the time... So many great performers are still making great music. This era was particularly hard, because so many were lost to chemical habits. The survivors though have active lives as artists you need to make a list of maybe your top 20 favorite performers and see what they've been doing since the 60s. You might be pleasantly surprised of the amazing body of music that never made it to the top 40 machine. That and if you're willing to wind through independent music sources, there are some amazing young'ns carrying on the traditions. Don't let the sterile flavorless pap that is popular music today make you think for a moment that nothing good is happening.
Re:Music Today- of little interest by Anne+Thwacks · 2013-01-20 21:18 · Score: 1

If you can't find any music that's being released today that's good, then you're not looking
He did say released
I tend to agree - the only music I have bought since CDs were invented has been re-releases of old stuff I have (or had) on vinyl, or would have bought it it had been distributed better. However, I have been to see numerous live bands since. None of whom are featured on the TV.

--
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII

more like US vs DE demographic by beckett · 2013-01-20 16:23 · Score: 1

This article was as much about the differences between the populations surveyed in germany and USA. from TFA, Germans that responded to the survey were almost twice as likely to obtain free music. it also pointed out Germany still bought lots of physical media (82% sales were CD), while the trend in USA was in favour of online downloads (more than 50%).

Additionally, while 52% US citizens believe that downloading free music is some sort of crime, 59% of Germans surveyed believe this too. By leaving this point off the summary, /. does not present the whole story in TFA.

Re:more like US vs DE demographic by GigaplexNZ · 2013-01-20 17:54 · Score: 1

If the summary presented the whole story, there'd be no point in reading TFA.
Re:more like US vs DE demographic by Anne+Thwacks · 2013-01-20 21:27 · Score: 1

52% US citizens believe that downloading free music is some sort of crime, 59% of Germans surveyed believe this too.
Probably a larger portion of Germans think that "crime" is too broadly defined as to take it very seriously. Putting things in the same category may or may not make them "the same". (According to the Bible, gay sex is an abomination but then again, so is eating shellfish.)

--
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Re:more like US vs DE demographic by gnasher719 · 2013-01-21 00:55 · Score: 1

Additionally, while 52% US citizens believe that downloading free music is some sort of crime, 59% of Germans surveyed believe this too. By leaving this point off the summary, /. does not present the whole story in TFA.
These numbers would firstly depend an awful lot on the exact wording of the question asked. Obviously downloading free music is not a crime at all. I've downloaded plenty of free music, directly from the musicians, some from iTunes, all completely legally. Downloading music that isn't free without paying may be a crime, but what answer you get depends on the question asked.

And translating a term like "some sort of crime" accurately is very, very difficult. A word like "crime" is one on a long chain of words describing objectionable behaviour, and it is quite common that another language has a similar chain, but the various words don't match exactly. So German might have one word that is slightly weaker than "crime" and one that is slightly stronger. Which one you choose again changes the percentage.
Re:more like US vs DE demographic by beckett · 2013-01-21 06:43 · Score: 1

the summary presents a slanted view of the article; it doesn't summarize the more balanced point of view in the article.
Re:more like US vs DE demographic by beckett · 2013-01-21 06:44 · Score: 1

right; this would have put some of the other discussions (e.g. 52% americans believe in thought crime) in perspective. the article does define what 'crime' is ambiguously.

And Faux News says by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:24 · Score: 0

Yes, yes, P2P are all evil leeches that contribute nothing to society.

you know... by buddyglass · 2013-01-20 16:41 · Score: 2

People who want music will get what they can online and buy the rest. People who don't care to own their own music just listen the radio or stream Pandora. It's no surprise that people who listen to music and want to own some of their own are both more likely to purchase music *and* more likely to acquire it illegally. The $64,000 question is how much music this group of folks would be purchasing if file-sharing were somehow no longer an option.

Re:you know... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:17 · Score: 0

Who would be dumb enough to pay $64,000 to find out the answer to a question as stupid as that? Who cares? It will always be an option. Not even independently watermarking every audio file with the SSN of the customer who bought it will stop file-sharing. The only thing that will stop file-sharing is for the market for it to dry up. Youtube has done more to kill file-sharing than iTunes ever did.
Re:you know... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 18:12 · Score: 0

"Youtube has done more to kill file-sharing than iTunes ever did" which goes to disprove a number of things
1. "I only want to buy one track not the whole album", you can on iTunes
2." I want to be able to hear before I buy" , you can on iTunes
Of course Youtube2MP3 allows people to grab heaps of music from youtube and keep it too, and there are equivalents for video in HD.
"The only thing that will stop file-sharing is for the market for it to dry up", is correct, is just like nothing will stop rape, assault, murder, theft, fraud.....
So long as you have people, you will have dishonesty.
Re:you know... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 00:06 · Score: 0

I just trust there will always be enough videos and music on youtube for me to listen to so I don't have to grab anything from there. iTunes? Right. Not touching apples tainted software.
My extensive MP3 collection still sits on my HD, mostly unused, as now i just stream everything from spotify of listen from youtube. Also every radio station around here has a net stream. Why would i buy music when it turns out the record companies didn't actually sell me the music, they sold me defective "almost CD" discs, trojans and some kind of stupid half-license-half-goods packages where it's always the option that suits them the best, and which takes a lawyer to understand what i'm actually buying. SCREW THEM. Not going to buy anything from them. I'll look at adds in youtube, or rent the music from spotify.
Re:you know... by strikethree · 2013-01-21 01:37 · Score: 1

The $64,000 question is how much music this group of folks would be purchasing if file-sharing were somehow no longer an option.
I think I can answer this question in an authoritative manner: None
I really like several genres of music. Wild ass number: 90% of all music is crap. Without file sharing (tape recording), I would have never bought any music at all. As it is, since I do not do file sharing any more, I have no idea what is good or not and no way to find out. If anyone thinks that I am going to pay $20 a cd to find good music ($200 via that wild ass number to find one good cd), they are insane. I just do without nowadays.
In other words: I am sure there is good music out there that I would love to buy, I just have no way of finding it. That means zero dollars spent and zero artists enriched... erm, not artists, middlemen enriched.

--
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Re:you know... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 01:37 · Score: 0

I'm pretty sure, Anon, itunes doesn't, let you hear the whole song before you buy.
Re:you know... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 01:55 · Score: 0

In my case i REFUSE to buy music from anyone associated to the RIAA. I used to purchase a lot of music in the 90's and 90's, aided by previewing using sneaker-net and then later P2P. I like 'odd' music and don't want to throw money away just to find out i don't like it, but if i do like the music, i want to support the artist.
Now that i know the RIAA are a bunch of evil bastards and the artists don't get supported, they no longer get *any* of my money. If there is a band associated with the industry that i like, ill download their stuff, then send them a money order directly to the band ( or buy concert tickets, if they tour ).
Re:you know... by buddyglass · 2013-01-21 04:00 · Score: 1

My personal experience is the opposite. I highly suspect there's some music I would have purchased had it not been available for free in digital form at little effort and with negligible legal risk. (i.e. borrowing a friend's CD and ripping it.) It's entirely possible I'm not representative of most people, but I suspect I'm not the only one like this either.

Re:Nihao, bitches!1 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 16:44 · Score: 0

Woof woof! Doggy Style!

Survey says: everyone pirates but pirates buy more by Anubis+IV · 2013-01-20 16:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

Based on the article's writeup of the survey, the survey seems to suggest that everyone is "pirating", with the only difference being where they get their music from. As we'd expect, P2P users had larger libraries with a larger proportion of their library being made up of illicitly acquired music, but in raw numbers, they still purchased more than non-P2P users. Meanwhile, non-P2P users had smaller libraries and were found to be acquiring music through shady means nearly as much, with the distinction being that they were getting it from friends and family as opposed to from the Internet.

Long story short, P2P or not, people are pirating these days, but the P2P folks have a larger appetite for music, and that includes purchasing it in larger quantities. Nothing really earth-shattering for most of us, though hopefully it'll be a wakeup call to the RIAA and their kind.

Well, we can hope, at least.

Survey biased on Internet sharing by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:13 · Score: 0

From TFA:

"But only a small minority of Americans—between four and 15 percent—say it's reasonable to upload copyrighted content for public consumption, post links to pirated content on Facebook, or sell unauthorized copies of copyrighted materials."

so here the survey has grouped making music available via BitTorrent with selling illegal copies. That looks like bias in the survey to me because the selling of unauthorized copies of copyrighted materials is quite different to making it available on facebook or elsewhere.

Re:Survey biased on Internet sharing by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:08 · Score: 0

Legally it's no different. An unauthorized copy is an unauthorized copy, you probably wouldn't even get off lightly because you didn't profit from it.
Re:Survey biased on Internet sharing by Attila+Dimedici · 2013-01-21 01:16 · Score: 1

Actually that is not entirely true. One element in determining whether or not someone can use the "fair use" defense against a charge of copyright infringement is whether or not they profited from the use. If you made an unauthorized copy of copyrighted material and profited from it, the burden of proof (not quite the correct term, but I cannot think of a better way to phrase it at the moment) to claim fair use is far higher than if you did not profit from it.

--
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison

How many studies proving this do we need? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:24 · Score: 0

Hm? I think we're at least up to 100, by now.

Clearly unpossible. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:33 · Score: 0

We all know that information wants to be free.

Why would a p2p user be stupid enough to pay, and thus support THE MAN?

Google is, clearly, trolling.

Re:54% believe angels are real. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 17:33 · Score: 0

Just like you!

Re:Survey says: everyone pirates but pirates buy m by Cassini2 · 2013-01-20 17:52 · Score: 2

Everyone is pirating. Today's copyright laws can't be followed, even by people actively trying to follow them. Someone put a nice essay together to detail how incredibly absurd we are right now. If you walk around in public, singing along to your iPod, you are violating copyright. Current copyright law is so nebulous, that average person will violate it somehow, every day. The only good news is that no one cares about most peoples infractions.

The real problem with copyright law, and increasingly all IP law, is that it is impossible to avoid bankrupting lawsuits by following an obvious set of rules. This is evidenced by the fact the biggest copyright lawsuit in Canada was filed against the music labels. The university library copyright collection agency imploded. The copyright collection agencies have lost many lawsuits at the supreme court.

If the music industry can't follow copyright law, why should anyone else?

Old technology was awesome by dtjohnson · 2013-01-20 17:59 · Score: 2

I recently obtained an old-fashioned turntable at a garage sale. Playing LP records on that thing makes the music come ALIVE. I am listening to The Band's "The Weight" cut from the Bob Dylan 'Before the Flood' live vinyl LP album and, comparing it with the either the CD or MP3 version is like comparing HDTV with pre-hdtv. The music is so much richer and fills the room. I never realized before what was lost when the switch to CDs was made. So...those downloaded tracks from a P2P source are only offering a fraction of the audio experience that used to be available decades ago...and the music companies are to blame because they must have known at the time what they were doing...selling less for more. Yeah, you couldn't get those LPs for free but then they were actually worth a lot more because they provided a much richer audio experience. The record companies should have worked a lot harder on an analog format rather than the CDA format they ended up with on music cds. Why? Because music is analog and the conversion to a digital format loses something. Hey record companies...here's some free advice. Give the digital files away for free...that's all they are worth...and sell us a new analog format on an optical disc.

Re:Old technology was awesome by SuricouRaven · 2013-01-20 19:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

Converting to digital at CD standard loses nothing you can hear. The frequency range covers all of human hearing, and the quantitisation noise is too small to notice on a properly normalised track. What you hear isn't anything inherent to the CD medium: It's just that the preferred style of mixing has changed in the intervening years, something commonly referred to as the 'loudness wars,' as labels seek to make the music stand out more in a public setting by increasing the average volume at the expense of dynamic range.
With MP3s, you get as good as you allocate bits for. 64kbit music is going to sound like rubbish, but you'd need superhuman hearing to notice anything changed at 384kbit. Better, newer codecs can easily match that quality at a lower bitrate - MP3 is quite dated now, technologically. It achieved such dominance while it was the best around that when better codecs came along it was too entrenched to displace.
Re:Old technology was awesome by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 22:21 · Score: 0

I hope you paid the media companies after purchasing those LPs. The original owners in fact just bought a licence to listen to the music.
Re:Old technology was awesome by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 02:26 · Score: 0

In theory, yes. In practice, no. With 44100Hz sampling rate, ideally a 22050Hz sinusoid can be reproduced. In this case, reconstruction is done with only 2 samples per period. Even at 5kHz there are only 8 samples per period.
Enter real music, and sinusoid signals are replaced by complex waveforms with many harmonics that extend to well above 22kHz. Reconstruction of these signals inherently introduces loss due to missing data (during the time between samples). Even in the analog medium there is loss in the form of high-frequency rolloff. Both loss mechanisms have different distrortion characteristics.
So in the end it comes down to which kind of distortion sounds more acceptable to the individual listener. As it seems, there are many who prefer the analog distortion and many who prefer the digital kind.
Re:Old technology was awesome by joelholdsworth · 2013-01-21 02:46 · Score: 1

Mod parent up.
Re:Old technology was awesome by dtjohnson · 2013-01-21 02:55 · Score: 1

Converting to digital at CD standard loses nothing you can hear.
You are theoretically right, of course, and I would have agreed in an instant before I had my own listening experience. It all starts with our ears and our brain, though. Those are analog devices. When we take digital data and attempt to simulate analog music you can hear the difference and it is not subtle. Put it on a scope and no doubt the waveform would look right. It should be right. It IS right...but it does not sound the same...and that's all that really matters in the end. The record companies should come out with some sort of analog format for people who want to pay for it. Maybe it could be some sort of chromatically-tinted clear plastic disc. Obviously, however much anyone might like the old analog lp format, there is never going to be any new music released for a technology that consists of dragging a sharp object through a vinyl groove. I bought the old turntable to convert old LPs to digital format but now I don't want to listen to the digital format. Unfortunately, though, no one will sell new needles or cartridges and the LPs will wear out and so...the future is digital rather it's better or not.
Re:Old technology was awesome by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 02:58 · Score: 0

Do you listen to your music through a solid state amplifier?
Re:Old technology was awesome by Sedated2000 · 2013-01-21 03:44 · Score: 1

Honestly just being curious here... is it possibly because you were just used to the imperfections and the nuances of records before? It seems similar to the 24fps argument (true movies have flicker and motion blur so 48fps without the same motion blur seems amateur and soap opera-like). I had to readjust my perceptions when I thought of it that way. Your brain can trick you in to feeling that the better quality looks unprofessional.
Re:Old technology was awesome by SuricouRaven · 2013-01-21 04:52 · Score: 1

You're wrong, but if you want to indulge your wrongness there is a solution for your vinyl maintainance problem. You could get a laser turntable. No needle, and thus no wear on the record at all. They do cost a fortune though.
Re:Old technology was awesome by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 06:24 · Score: 0

my hobby; playing two of the same mp3 tracks at different bitrates and see how many self-professed audiophiles can actually tell the difference. my (admittedly limited) research into this has lead to the conclusion that the more adamant someone is about how well they can tell the difference, the less likely they are to actually determine the higher bitrate version.
disclaimer: my hearing is terrible and i can only tell the difference in extremely low bitrate encodings.
Re:Old technology was awesome by Fruit · 2013-01-21 07:13 · Score: 1

You may find this paper interesting.
Re:Old technology was awesome by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 14:29 · Score: 0

Give the digital files away for free...that's all they are worth...and sell us a new analog format on an optical disc.
The 'touchless' laser turntables sold at
http://www.elpj.com/
are EXPENSIVE but will play black vinyl analog ('broken') records with maximum fidelity with no wear and tear to the record. Now, all the labels have to do make them MUCH cheaper, make the vinyl records CD-sized, and encase them permanently in protective plastic to protect the groove. This might be possible...if not, we are STILL stuck with CDs...
CAPTCHA: bawled (food for thought...)

Re:54% believe angels are real. by ArcadeMan · 2013-01-20 18:02 · Score: 1

Oh, angels are real but they're also extremely deadly. My advice is: don't blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back. Don't look away. And don't blink.

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Re:52% of Americans by ArcadeMan · 2013-01-20 18:05 · Score: 1

Indeed.

If only they knew that life on Earth was started by some dumb alien kid who was on vacation on Earth with his family and didn't properly follow the intergalactic garbage laws and just threw away his sandwich...

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duh by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 18:34 · Score: 0

Always here about this again and again. Obviously those who are more interested in music, are going to buy more music. It doesn't mean that pirating music actually encourages people to buy more music, quite the opposite obviously.

Re: Survey says: everyone pirates but pirates buy by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 18:37 · Score: 0

Nothing really earth-shattering for most of us, though hopefully it'll be a wakeup call to the RIAA and their kind.

You mistakenly assumed their target is to earn more profit by getting more people to buy more songs.

WRONG. Their target is to earn more profit by gaining a monopoly on how anyone can get songs, then they can jack up prices as much as they like and get huge profits with as little investment and risk as possible.

So ANY alternative for getting music must be stopped, regardless of whether such alternative is helping or hindering sales.

Re:Nihao, bitches!1 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:05 · Score: 0

Wow, Koreans speaking Chinese are going to be the masters of America? Now I've heard everything.

Re:Nihao, bitches!1 by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 19:29 · Score: 0

Poor Gui Lao, at least you can see it coming and plan accordingly. Most of those poor knuckleheads in Kansas going to the "Bible Museum" with the Flinstone dioramas depicting Fred and Wilma on Dino's back before the flood are going to get their economic asses handed to them. Might I suggest Mandarin first then a coin toss between Japanese and Korean... Japanese more important now, Korean more important in... say ten years, maybe five. I'd be way more afraid of automation in the long run (10-15 years.) because even in the next 5 years, most factory jobs are going bye bye, no sleep, no breaks, more accurate and more reliable, robots are coming fast and nobody is going to stop that.

Good news is Asian music is actually pretty good. bad news is that robots are moving in there too.

Re:54% believe angels are real. by SuricouRaven · 2013-01-20 19:47 · Score: 1

The really silly thing is that angels as most people see them aren't actually in the bible. The text does describe many denizens of heaven, including some usually referred to as angels, but none of the descriptions are anything like the traditional image of the man in white robes with a pair of wings and a halo. That is a figure from pagan mythology - like so much, early Christian artists took inspiration from what came before and adapted it into their own works.

As a pretty huge 'pirate'... by Pubstar · 2013-01-20 19:53 · Score: 2

As someone who has TBs of pirated games, I have a pretty decent steam account ($1300 last I checked). I have a huge vinyl collection and a massive download folder from Beatport.com (Due to who I DJ for, I have to own all tracks that I use in sets), yet I have a huge download folder. Why do I pirate so much and yet buy a ton of stuff? I pirate games because I get sick of being burned by shitty games, and the clips on Beatport are not nearly long enough to get the gist of the track. Youtube, you say? Good luck trying to find some obscure Minimal, Tech House, and Techno that I play.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Re:As a pretty huge 'pirate'... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 03:00 · Score: 0

soulseek dooder... all the minimal you can ask for haha...
its true though... beatport top 100 djs sound like shit, and to really find the underground stuff you have to trawl harder then reading a few blogs, scoping forums and checking out playlists/soundcloud
Re:As a pretty huge 'pirate'... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 03:07 · Score: 0

ps.. real djs use vinyl anyways. (as im sure you'd agree)
Re:As a pretty huge 'pirate'... by Pubstar · 2013-01-22 15:26 · Score: 1

Ill have to take a look. Its been ages since I've used Soulseek. Thanks for the heads up.
Re:As a pretty huge 'pirate'... by Pubstar · 2013-01-22 15:29 · Score: 1

Not sure if trolling. Vinyl is a dead format. It needs to die. Sure, I can buy vinyl, but you really only get 20 good plays out of them due to using high tracking force in environments with lots of bass. Sure, airbags help, but having to rebuy my collection over and over again is just a waste. I've been using Serato for years, and I don't really have an issue with it. Most audio techs at clubs/raves have no clue what the hell they are doing, and even if you had the most pristine sounding vinyl, a bad tech will make it sound like shit. That, and most of the shows I'm at, I'm not on Function One speakers - Just some shitty JBLs on low end QSC amps.

The problem. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 20:19 · Score: 0

Scenario 1: Music gets pirated. RIAA (or whatever the equivalent is in one's nation) takes some of those pirates to court and the court finds them guilty. Music continues to be pirated, but people buy music out of guilt and/or fear.

Scenario 2: Music gets pirated. No legal action is taken by any party. Music continues to be pirated and profits fall because there is no reason to buy music when you can just download it.

I hate to say it (and I'm sure Slashdot people will mod me down for this), but I'm kinda glad the RIAA exists when looking at those two scenarios. Do I like the fact that people pirate music and get imprisoned for it? Certainly not! However, the fact is that without the RIAA, there really wouldn't be a reason to buy the music if we could all just download it, right? It's already stored on our computers, usually DRM-free, making it more convenient than buying it on iTunes or on a physical audio CD, which we'd just rip anyway. RIAA, thanks for all your work!

Now if you'll excuse me, I must return to my cell...

nothing new; the labels knew this with napster by jsepeta · 2013-01-20 20:43 · Score: 2

when napster was first out (before they were sued and sold and reorged), music sales were up in college towns where p2p was popular. the more exposure young people have to new music, the greater the likelihood that they will buy new music. duh.

--
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.

Re:nothing new; the labels knew this with napster by peace_fixation · 2013-01-20 21:33 · Score: 1

Here's a statistic for you. I have an extensive music collection. At retail, which I paid for it, $30000.00+. Yes, that's thirty thousand dollars, more actually, but let's round it down a bit. The split is about equal between CD and vinyl, and some bought online and downloaded for good measure. I'm also a pirate. Why? Because it's an efficient way to trawl and find what I like. How else would I do it? Well, I could go to the physical record store that doesn't stock much, if any, of the music I like. I could fiddle around on a big internet store and listen to low-bitrate 30 second samples via some crappy embedded player. Or I can just queue up the album p2p and get a half decent mp3 copy, figure out if it's for me, and then if I feel that it's worth owning a nice hi-fi copy I'll go and buy one and play it on a good stereo. I'm not alone. This is how people who listen to a lot of music shop for it these days. We are the people who keep indie artists afloat, we are the people who go out and see bands and buy the new album on the way out, we are the reason there is a music industry beyond the pop charts. The big labels and RIAA and whatnot would have us drawn and quartered because we are apparently cheating them, but they just don't understand and to be honest, I couldn't care less.
Re:nothing new; the labels knew this with napster by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 22:30 · Score: 0

How much have you spent since Napster?
If it's more than $90, then you've been blowing your money. Surely there's something better in the world to spend your cash on than padding some dickhead celebrity's already thick bank balance.
I don't know, why not pirate, then give the money you would have spent to a charity for homeless dogs or something.
Re:nothing new; the labels knew this with napster by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 22:48 · Score: 0

you missed the part about them wanting not $30,000 from you but $60,000 or even $100,000+ for all the nonrefundable sales of all those albums and songs you didn't like.
Re:nothing new; the labels knew this with napster by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 00:42 · Score: 0

P2P is much like radio was back in the olden' days. It is where people tune in to listen to new music and then go buy what they like. Much like with radio, the music industry is trying to find a way to make money directly off P2P. With radio, stations must pay licensing fees and such.
Re:nothing new; the labels knew this with napster by Attila+Dimedici · 2013-01-21 01:53 · Score: 1

What you fail to realize is that the big labels and the RIAA do not care about the stats. They believe that if they can control what you hear and when you hear it, they can determine what you will like. If they can do that, they believe that they can lower their costs and increase their profits. The fact that the evidence suggests that they are wrong does not stop them from trying. They suffer from the fallacy of central planners everywhere. They believe that by gathering the correct information and controlling the flow of information they can more efficiently control what people spend their money on than people will do on their own.
This fallacy continues despite repeated failures of every effort to put it into practice because it allows people to believe that they can be in control of the world around them.

--
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison

Re:How to fix the broken system: by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 20:57 · Score: 0

One word: Inflation.

Yay, the government printed off a trillion dollar coin! Too bad ramen noodles now cost $350/pkg.

More digital music maybe by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 21:37 · Score: 0

From TFA
"The average American on a peer-to-peer network has a music library of almost 2000 songs. Of these, 760 (38 percent) are reported to be legitimately purchased. In contrast, those who say they are not P2P users (but do collect digital music files) have an average library size of 1300 songs. Of those, 582 (roughly 45 percent) were purchased from legitimate sources. Most of the others were ripped from CDs or copied from friends and family."

Correct me if I am wrong but that way that is worded seems to suggest that non P2P users buy less music from digital sources rather than less music. I fail to see how "ripped from CDs" does not count as a legitimate purchase if you bought the CD yourself.

Re:Nihao, bitches!1 by Anne+Thwacks · 2013-01-20 21:51 · Score: 1

You have obviously missed the Ghanaians dancing Gangnam style! http://ghanaleak.net/video/azonto-gangnam-style-ghana-style-zigi-african-parody

--
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Re:52% of Americans by Dr_Barnowl · 2013-01-20 21:55 · Score: 1

Just wait until they come back to sterilize his mistake....

Re:How to fix the broken system: by Genda · 2013-01-20 22:10 · Score: 1

We only need to inflate the currency to support the addiction to borrowing money from the Federal Reserve which in the end is bleeding this nation dry. Bleeding all nations dry. Who do you think owns all those millions of foreclosed on houses that haven't been put back up on the market, they will sell those homes when the interest rates are better for the bank and real estate values rise again, and then do exactly what they did before. Not a single banker punished. Not a single action taken to stop banks from making further gambles on property, derivative swaps, cheating their own customers, no a single thing has changed since 2008. This is simply a big wealth siphon and the Federal Reserve is the biggest parasite on the human race in all of recorded history.

Enough already. kill this thing and put it out of our misery.

Proper Statistics guys by efarng · 2013-01-20 23:39 · Score: 1

Did you guys READ the article? It's important to remember what the article points out very clearly. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Without a controlled randomized test, it is very difficult to determine causation. While intriguing, this survey doesn't say _anything_ about whether P2P is good or bad for the industry.

Secondly, it is likely that some people surveyed lied about their answer. However, it is also possible that the survey was constructed to minimize lying with standard survey techniques. Unfortunately, the article doesn't go into detail about how the survey was performed.

Biased Poll by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-20 23:44 · Score: 0

Isn't it begging the qustion when they say "52% of Americans also said that downloading infringing content should be a punishable offense."
The question should have been "How serious an offence do you think downloading copyighted material for personal use should be?"
With a multiple choice answers of :
- Not an offense (considerered to be Fair Use)
- Civil suit by copyright holder
- Roughly equal to a parking fine
- Misdemeanor
- Felony
- Death Penalty

52% supports punishment by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 01:50 · Score: 0

This means the *AA's marketing plan to manipulate the sense of reality in people is slowly working. ( assuming the number is accurate, and not like most surveys )

Re:Survey says: everyone pirates but pirates buy m by TiggsPanther · 2013-01-21 02:05 · Score: 1

Long story short, P2P or not, people are pirating these days, but the P2P folks have a larger appetite for music, and that includes purchasing it in larger quantities. Nothing really earth-shattering for most of us, though hopefully it'll be a wakeup call to the RIAA and their kind.

Well, we can hope, at least.

This resonates with something I've come to realise over the past week or so with regards to my own purchasing habits. And it's not just down to "I buy what I download", although you can easily oversimplify it out to that.

If I'm listening to a lot of music, I want to buy music. If I watch a lot of Anime, I want to buy Anime. If I'm watching a lot of genre TV, I want to buy genre DVDs. This includes if listened via radio or Spotify, or watch stuff on TV or on DVDs I already own. Consuming a certain type of media makes me want to consume more, and when I'm browsing the shops just after payday, that type of media is foremost in my mind.
I don't always buy exactly what I've already watched, although I sometimes do, but it puts me in the mindset to buy something.

So whether it's via torrents or via radio/TV/Spotify/VOD/rental, if I've just really enjoyed something then see something similar on the shelves of a shop, or in an Amazon search, then I'm more likely to buy it than when that kind of thing isn't on my mind.
I buy more media when I'm consuming media. This goes for things I see or listen to legitimately, too. But it's easy to understand why some people who pirate music will also buy a lot. They either want what they've listened to or just want to buy some music.

--
Tiggs
"120 chars should be enough for everyone..."

must be someone else by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 02:19 · Score: 0

I haven't bought any music for 5 years, somehow I have every new album I'm interested in though. Perhaps I'm an outlier. I'd rather go to the concerts and support the bands that way than give them ~$0.20 of the $25 I drop on a album (I'm into death metal and the albums are even more inflated in price than mainstream stuff AND never on sale in the stores where I live).

Re:Survey says: everyone pirates but pirates buy m by Anubis+IV · 2013-01-21 03:36 · Score: 1

I definitely agree. I don't think that we can reasonably use such a defense as justification for pirating (morally or legally), but I do believe that the RIAA would be well-advised to approach the situation with that sort of thinking and awareness. Rather than viewing these people as customers that have been saturated with advertising and the culture of music (as Neil Young put it, "piracy is the new radio"), they're treating them as opponents. Jobs had it right when he went to the music industry with the idea of the iTunes Store and said that people were "spending an hour to download four songs that you could buy for under $4 from Apple, which means you’re working for under minimum wage" and that they'd be willing to go to the services that provide a decent service at a decent price. And then they followed that up with the whole iTunes Match service, which basically acted like amnesty for all previous acts of piracy, thus encouraging people to break out of that habit while making it trivial (both in terms of simplicity and in terms of cost) to do so.

Other companies have been championing that cause as well, but it feels as if they're having to drag the RIAA along, kicking and screaming.

Maybe so by sunking2 · 2013-01-21 03:48 · Score: 1

But the real question is are they spending as much as they would have if they weren't pirating at all. Of course this is impossible to determine. But just as one side can through surveys like this at you, the other can throw out things like the decline in record store sales (which may or may not be offset by increases in downloaded sales), etc. Both sides of this issue can come up with valid arguments when you cherry pick the stats you want to.

Statistics don't lie by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 04:00 · Score: 0

At some point you have to accept what the numbers are telling you.

Bottom line by Anonymous Coward · 2013-01-21 05:05 · Score: 0

If you were not interested in CO-OP, you wouldn't have bought the game.

Re:52% of Americans by Overzeetop · 2013-01-21 05:10 · Score: 1

Come on. How bad could it really be?

Oh, right.

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Survey Suggests P2P Users Buy More Music

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