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What Will The Expanding World of ChromeOS Mean For Windows?

Nerval's Lobster writes "Hewlett-Packard is the latest PC manufacturer to jump into the Chromebook game, whipping the curtain back from a 14-inch device loaded with Google's Chrome OS. Powered by a dual-core Intel Celeron processor, and touting roughly 4.25 hours of battery life, the HP Pavilion Chromebook follows in the footsteps of other Chromebooks released by Acer and Samsung over the past few months. While these manufacturers continue to produce devices loaded with Windows, the growth of Chrome OS could spark some worry among Microsoft executives, who have become used to their hardware partners operating as Windows-only shops. But is Chrome OS a true threat to Windows, or just a way for manufacturers to gain some additional leverage in negotiating with Microsoft over licensing fees and other matters?"

263 comments

  1. The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Shame that it's in a creepy, Google-centric way. Goodbye, last vestiges of privacy!
    (also, first post)

    1. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by binarylarry · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't get why they're pushing ChromeOS (I mean I do but it's fail).

      We want a fucking Android Desktop flavor.

      Linux hardware support + big company with lots of OEM friends and lots of capital to put towards ironing out issues + a popular platform everyone knows and trusts = death to windows.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Why would you want Android on the desktop? I love Android, but I don't want it on my desktop.

      Besides, if you want that, you can get a tablet and a bluetooth mouse/keyboard. Or get an Asus Transformer with the keyboard/touchpad/battery attachment.

      I'm happy with both Windows 7 and Mint on my desktops just now.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by miletus · · Score: 1

      I bought the $199 Acer chromebook, and threw Chrubuntu on it. It runs quite well, even Skype works haflway decently on it, and in a pinch I can do real work on it.

    4. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by davester666 · · Score: 1

      It's NOT Android. It's ChromeOS, which is basically the Chrome Browser running on Linux.

      Everything is the web, man.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    5. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not to mention with the ChromeBook all you are doing is trading the openness of X86 for a system that is as locked down as a cellphone. With a Windows laptop i can be booting up in under 10 minutes with any flavor of Linux or BSD that I want, I'm not beholden to ANYBODY to continue support of the machine as its mine and i can run what I want. With ChromeOS you have to 1.-Go into "dev mode", 2.-Wipe the OS completely (no dual boot allowed!), 3.-After all that you can run ONE and ONLY ONE OS, and that is a bootloader hacked version of ubuntu run by just one guy. if he quits hacking Ubuntu bootloaders or doesn't support your ChromeBook? Tough shit, regular Linux and BSd WILL NOT RUN on a ChromeBook.

      So while i'm all for breaking up the MSFT monopoly on X86 this is NOT the way to go about it, we are trading one corporation for another that is worse in every single way. With Windows laptops if you don't like the latest from MSFT, or they no longer support your hardware who cares? You have dozens of distros to choose from that will have updated software so your device is still usable. With this you're getting the worst of X86 (shorter battery life, more heat) and the worst of ARM (locked down hardware, little support outside the OEM) with the upsides of neither.

      What we need is an open laptop running the latest Android NOT a locked down Internet only OS. There are still a lot of places where free WiFi isn't available and if all the ISPs go to 6 strikes you can kiss free WiFi goodbye anyway so unless these have a SIM card slot and you buy a data plan they are gonna be paperweights quickly enough. Maybe its just me but I want a system i can use offline and on, that I can put whatever OS I want onto, and which isn't gonna be locked down like a cellphone and be a PITA for other OSes to support.

      I thought MSFT locking systems down with UEFI was wrong, and its still wrong if a company does it while claiming they "do no evil". So I hope these bomb, maybe they'll give us open Android systems instead.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    6. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ask and ye shall receive:

      http://www.android-x86.org/download
      http://android-x86.googlecode.com/files/android-x86-4.2-20121225.iso

      Boot off the iso and you can try it out, if you like it, install it.

      I have it running on my dell mini 10v and android on the laptop is amazing.

    7. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I don't get why they're pushing ChromeOS (I mean I do but it's fail).

      We want a fucking Android Desktop flavor.

      Because you don't win against Microsoft by waiting for the merge to be done to get to market. Patience, grasshopper - the OEM's who have signed on for ChromeOS know they'll be hitting the ground running with Android laptops. But now is no time to taint the Android brand with the current status.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    8. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by interval1066 · · Score: 1
      I predicted Siri by 12 months (no, seriously, I did), so I feel duly empowered to answer and predict all questions on the HID front.

      I love Android, but I don't want it on my desktop.

      Not as long as desktops are around, which won't be forever. Prounouncing the death of the desktop now would be premature, but lets face it, 20 years from now, 10 even, people aren't going to be using a mouse, dude. Lets get real.

      Is it going to be that "Metro" horror? I doubt it. Applications like Siri will be ubiquitous, they will be more intelligent and there will be an ansi standard for the protocol that describes them. They will have a generic name, in a short sci fi story I wrote (wherein I made the "Siri" prediction) I called these applications and called them "Digital Butlers", but I have no idea what the actual designation will be. But I do believe they will be infinately customizable, including looks and and persoalities. You want a sexy Geisha to be your digital assitant? Done. Three Headed Hydra that speaks French? You got it.

      And for direct manipulation of digital objects, gestures a la Minority Report, but no need for special gloves. Just reach out and manipulate the objects that will be shown from a 3d projector that your cell phone is equiped with.

      Quick portrait of the future; an engineer is walking around downtown when he gets a call from his boss that a change needs to be made to a product design asap. The engineer ends the conversation using his cell phone and then whips out a can of instant LCD and sprays it on a convinient wall in a rough 32x32 box. The spray contains nanite machines that assemble the components of the spray into the LCD + a wifi (or bluetooth or other, new gen, interface). The engineer then tells his digital buter application (in his phone) to connect to the display that he just sprayed on the nearby wall, and to bring up the product plans. He then makes changes using his hands to manipulate directly the product parts. Then tells his digital assistant to save the changes, puts his cell phone in his pocket, and moves on. The connection to the spray-on LCD terminated, the nanites from the spray can dissassemble the spray-on LCD, rendering the wall the same as it was before.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    9. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What we need is an open laptop running the latest Android NOT a locked down Internet only OS

      Yes, that's what WE need, but the vast majority of users want a secure machine that only runs signed code, because they REALLY don't want to do system administration, way more so than they care about software choice.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    10. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      Why would you want Android on the desktop? I love Android, but I don't want it on my desktop.

      Nobody would want the CURRENT Android on their laptop. But they'd sure love a consistent and portable environment that works for all their use cases, preserves app store purchases, provides access to all their data, etc., if it could do what they need a desktop OS to do today.

      Right now the ChromeOS laptops can take a SIM card. Give it a couple years, and they'll take the whole phone, and the thing will switch into "laptop mode" when it's in (or near) the KVM case.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    11. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have it running on my dell mini 10v and android on the laptop is amazing.

      And fast. Fast, fast, really fast.

      I'm running the AndroVM flavor in VirtualBox, and, hey, I like my phone (a little bit) but damn, JellyBean boots in a couple seconds on my laptop.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    12. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dual boot with Chrubuntu on my kids C7. With Chrubuntu, they can play Minecraft, my daughter can do her video editing. Then I can boot to ChromOS to use my google services.

      It does lock up every once and while, but that's because my kids are addicted to minecraft and the poor little box can't keep up. But then again, they lock up and overheat the windows laptop as well. Not the fault of the system, the fault of Java, which needs to die.

      AC - because I forgot my password and didn't want to wait for the email... on it now.

    13. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Not as long as desktops are around, which won't be forever. Prounouncing the death of the desktop now would be premature, but lets face it, 20 years from now, 10 even, people aren't going to be using a mouse, dude. Lets get real.

      They've had the ability to do touch-screen displays for well over 20 years. They even tried to do it in the 1980's. However, they found that it was not practical for a desktop - and produced what got coined as "Gorilla Arm". That's why Touch Screen will never take off on the desktop.

      That said, I still think you are right that the desktop won't really be around in 10-20 years except for in some very niche cases. Touch-based systems will replace it, but they won't be desktop's like you think today. They'll be mobile systems integrated in a fashion that provides the same functionality most people need from a desktop now.

      And for direct manipulation of digital objects, gestures a la Minority Report, but no need for special gloves. Just reach out and manipulate the objects that will be shown from a 3d projector that your cell phone is equiped with.

      Personally I think it will be more akin to the keyboard in "Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within" than what was shown in "Minority Report". One company - HelioDisplay - pretty much already has the technology in one form (ionized air + projectors) but it is still a long ways from the requisite capabilities.

      Quick portrait of the future; an engineer is walking around downtown when he gets a call from his boss that a change needs to be made to a product design asap. The engineer ends the conversation using his cell phone and then whips out a can of instant LCD and sprays it on a convinient wall in a rough 32x32 box. The spray contains nanite machines that assemble the components of the spray into the LCD + a wifi (or bluetooth or other, new gen, interface). The engineer then tells his digital buter application (in his phone) to connect to the display that he just sprayed on the nearby wall, and to bring up the product plans. He then makes changes using his hands to manipulate directly the product parts. Then tells his digital assistant to save the changes, puts his cell phone in his pocket, and moves on. The connection to the spray-on LCD terminated, the nanites from the spray can dissassemble the spray-on LCD, rendering the wall the same as it was before.

      More like, the engineer drops his cell phone on the table, and the wall lights up with the display. The touch interface on the table in front of him activates and allows him to start manipulating the display and operate the computer running from the cell phone. Additional processors and memory, if needed, are supplied by the table to help run the software using NUMA techniques.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    14. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      It's NOT Android. It's ChromeOS, which is basically the Chrome Browser running on Linux.

      Everything is the web, man.

      The person you were responding to was responding to someone who said he wanted Android on the desktop.
      Please read.

    15. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by Teckla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to mention with the ChromeBook all you are doing is trading the openness of X86 for a system that is as locked down as a cellphone.

      Which is great in some places (e.g., education) and for some people (e.g., very non-technical users).

      With a Windows laptop i can be booting up in under 10 minutes with any flavor of Linux or BSD that I want, I'm not beholden to ANYBODY to continue support of the machine as its mine and i can run what I want.

      Running Linux or BSD on the desktop appeals to, what, maybe 1% of desktop users?

      So while i'm all for breaking up the MSFT monopoly on X86 this is NOT the way to go about it, we are trading one corporation for another that is worse in every single way.

      Wow! Claiming Microsoft is worse than Google in every single way is quite an extraordinary claim!

      What we need is an open laptop running the latest Android NOT a locked down Internet only OS.

      What's wrong with having both?

      I thought MSFT locking systems down with UEFI was wrong, and its still wrong if a company does it while claiming they "do no evil".

      This hyperbole is beneath you.

    16. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Not to mention with the ChromeBook all you are doing is trading the openness of X86 for a system that is as locked down as a cellphone.

      It's not locked down at all and it's well documented how to install other Linux distros.

    17. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by kllrnohj · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not to mention with the ChromeBook all you are doing is trading the openness of X86 for a system that is as locked down as a cellphone.

      Go educate yourself, seriously. All chromebooks come with a dev mode switch that unlocks the bootloader and lets you do *whatever you want* to the hardware. Such as installing Ubuntu.

      Only on Slashdot can such an ignorant, and *factually wrong* post get modded "insightful"

    18. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      google makes their money by selling your privacy and access to your information, really how much worse can you possibly get? locking yourself into google is worse in every possible way. You have literally gone from in the frying pan to sizzling on the devils dick.

    19. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read the referenced posting to say that Google is worse than Microsoft. Can both of us be correct in our interpretation?

    20. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      The only person that need an education is YOU friend, why do you think that one guy puts out "ChrUbuntu" anyway? For his health? No its because the ONLY way to run another OS is with a bootloader hack because "dev mode" does NOT give you an open BIOS, its still as locked down as ever. in fact "dev mode" is just that, a way for developers to test their applications on ChromeOS, its NOT made to allow you to install any alternate OSes.

      Again I don't give a flying shit WHO locks down the hardware, locked down hardware is wrong PERIOD. Its wrong when Apple does it, its wrong when MSFT does it, its wrong when Google does it. Just because they say "do no evil" doesn't absolve them of dickish behavior and turning bog standard X86 units into a locked down platform is wrong and very much evil in my book.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    21. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      As I pointed out in another post above, having Android on a PC would repeat the same mess we've been seeing on Metro, GNOME 3 and Unity: putting a tablet interface on a PC. Also, ChromeOS, as described above, is there for both Xeons and ARMS. The reason the ARM version has to be locked down is that it's not going to run Windows apps, as the Atom versions can, under Crossover. Also, ChromeOS neatly sidesteps all the pitfalls of the various Linux distros out there. If one likes struggling w/ ALSA or PulseAudio or getting WiFi support on their distro, ChromeOS is not for one. But if, as most people, one just wants it to work OOTB, then you at least have Google working w/ hardware vendors to ensure that their hardware will work w/ ChromeOS. The open alternative to this would be Chromium OS, but how many people do you know who would compile the OS from source before installing it?

      However, I do think that Google could have done better by taking ReactOS, doing their version of it while letting ChromeOS be a placeholder, and then introducing it to the market. Model it on Windows 7, where win64 support would be built in and have Virtual PC w/ XP Mode running on it, so that win32 support would be there as well. Once that was complete, they wouldn't have to re-spin new versions, and they could probably get companies like Symantec or Kaspersky to do the security maintenance for the OS.

      But otherwise, I agree w/ the ChomeOS strategy. Google can position it towards the cheaper ARMS for those who are just looking for prices in the $200 range, while also feed it to the top of the line i7s. And given how Linux has done, I prefer ChromeOS to get a shot at taking over the desktop market.

    22. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by kllrnohj · · Score: 1

      No, dev mode lets you do whatever you want. It's full access. It doesn't give you a BIOS because there isn't a fucking BIOS on ARM.

      There is not a single possible way you can call a chrome book "locked down". That's just horseshit. I agree locked down hardware is wrong - good thing Google isn't doing it with *any* of their devices. Their Android phones aren't locked down, their tablets aren't locked down, and their laptops aren't locked down. Hell, their failed experiments such as the Nexus Q aren't locked down.

      And FYI dev mode very explicitly supports running other OSes.

    23. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does Sergey's cock taste?

    24. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by bluescrn · · Score: 1

      I'll admit that I've not tried ChromeOS yet. But I see nothing appealing about an 'operating system' that only runs HTML+Javascript apps...

      (Or is there some sort of native code support too? NaCL maybe?)

      If I want a device for browsing the web/content consumption, there's a plentiful selection of Android/iOS devices out there already. And they run native apps too.

    25. Re:The Year of the Linux Desktop arrives? by freeshoes · · Score: 0

      Instant LCD, Jesus. Sound like you've take one too many LSD.

  2. Celeron? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If it has a celeron in it, there is no need for Microsoft to worry.

    1. Re:Celeron? by Jawnn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really? And compared to your average tablet, how does the Celeron fare? The Chromebook's niche is not that of a PC. Hell, it's not even like that of a traditional notebook. Given that, the Celeron processor is more than up to the task.

    2. Re:Celeron? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, my Cray supercomputer really makes these web apps FAST!

    3. Re:Celeron? by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      but the article is about chromeos replacing desktop use os...

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:Celeron? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who cares? CPU isn't the limiting factor on either a tablet or a chromebook. The lack of productivity software is.

    5. Re:Celeron? by Guspaz · · Score: 2

      The dual-core SandyBridge celeron you find in the HP units is significantly faster than any ARM processor currently on the market. Of course, it also draws far more power, since it's a different class of processor. Apples and oranges there.

    6. Re:Celeron? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      So, how's that hernia working out for you? Have you hired a gorilla to carry the Cray for you yet?

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    7. Re:Celeron? by Teckla · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who cares? CPU isn't the limiting factor on either a tablet or a chromebook. The lack of productivity software is.

      What lack of productivity software? I have a quad core i7, and Gmail/Google Drive is my "productivity software".

      I understand what you're trying to say, of course, but for many, many people, web based software is more than enough for them.

    8. Re:Celeron? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The prices have gone way up since everybody started buying them.

    9. Re:Celeron? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      But does Intel still cripple the power saving features in the mobile Celeron? This is one of the reasons I always stuck with AMD in mobile, Intel was too quick to kill useful power saving features in their mobile chips to try to force an upsell. if you want to kill features like hyperthreading or virtualization fine Intel but killing useful power saving features like advanced Speedstep is just DUMB.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:Celeron? by nogginthenog · · Score: 2

      Newer celerons are actually pretty decent. Dual core, 64-bit.

    11. Re:Celeron? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Celeron CPU is also more than enough for those people, and so is an ARM tablet. If you bought an i7 to read emails and browse the web all you've done is waste a couple of hundred dollars.

    12. Re:Celeron? by Teckla · · Score: 1

      A Celeron CPU is also more than enough for those people, and so is an ARM tablet. If you bought an i7 to read emails and browse the web all you've done is waste a couple of hundred dollars.

      I have an i7 for software development. If I didn't do software development, a ChromeBook / ChromeOS + Gmail / Google Drive would probably be more than enough for me. And my point is that most people fall under the latter category.

    13. Re:Celeron? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Considering the Celeron 847 is one of Intel's ULV processors, with a TDP of half that of the lightest i3 Sandy Bridge, I really doubt they're disabling any power saving features. The whole point of their ULV line is to provide minimal power usage. Intel ARK seems to list the Celeron 847 as having all the same power management features of the full Sandy Bridge. It doesn't have demand-based switching, but no Sandy Bridge chip does.

      Ivy Bridge ULV chips perform significantly better, hitting much higher clockspeeds at lower power usage levels, but that's to be expected, since the primary focus of Ivy Bridge was power reduction (via the 22nm die shrink, tri-gate transistors, new power saving features, etc). In fact, since we're on the cusp of Haswell, I'd expect that to improve even further. But the 847 is still going to turn out decent performance.

    14. Re:Celeron? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't mean that's not the limiting factor overall in the marketplace. It just means it's not a limiting factor for you.

    15. Re:Celeron? by Teckla · · Score: 1

      Doesn't mean that's not the limiting factor overall in the marketplace. It just means it's not a limiting factor for you.

      As a software developer and tech support geek for friends and family, it's my experience that at least half of them would be better off with a Chromebook than they are with Windows.

    16. Re:Celeron? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well from the spec sheet you are correct in that they didn't disable speedstep like they did on previous Celerons but 1.1Ghz is awfully slow for a modern CPU and according to the comparison charts (listed below on the same page i linked to) its bested by a Bobcat E series and even by the Atom N450 on a couple of tests.

      Personally I think I'll stick with my E-350 netbook, as it lets me run any OS I wish while still getting 5 hours on a battery. Its nice to see plenty of choices in the low end though and I can't wait to see what Intel's answer to the jaguar is gonna be, having 4-8 cores in a netbook or laptop sounds nice and with any luck it'll make Intel drop their prices on their ULV quads. In any case the next year or so ought to be damned nice for tablets and laptops, plenty of choices and at prices that won't make your wallet cry.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  3. is Chrome OS a true threat to Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For the reasons stated in the summary, from the manufacturer's standpoint it just doesn't matter. The effort to port ChromeOS, measured in engineer hours, could easily be paid for by a 50 cent drop in the per laptop licensing fee for Windows. It's a good gamble. It's a win either way.

    Personally though, a Nexus 10, with all those pretty pixels, and a bluetooth keyboard seems to fill this niche better than anything I've seen with a hinge.

  4. Windows 8 by schneidafunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Windows 8 is the true threat to windows.

    --
    Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Windows 8 by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 4, Interesting

      MS aren't doing themselves any favours. If Windows 8, Windows Mobile, Surface and the planned changes to Small Business Server are anything to go by, it appears their new hobby is committing economic suicide. That's a pretty big threat to Windows and I know a lot of Windows server administrators who are starting to get nervous.

    2. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, Microsoft really is on the brink of economic ruin. Especially with Windows 8, which grew revenues by 24% to $6 billion in the last quarter, selling 60 million copies. Ruined I tell you! And Surface, selling a million units at a net profit per unit. They're really burying themselves with that stinker! By expanding production and availability of Surface, they're going to earn even *more* profit! What are they thinking?!?!

    3. Re:Windows 8 by Agares · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with you say, and that is why I try to learn as much as I can about every peice of technology I come into contact with. That way I am not tied into a single thing that could eventually die off some day. Nothing lasts forever everyone knows that, and that is why I think knowing just Windows, Linux, or Mac OSX is a bad idea. You are putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

    4. Re:Windows 8 by Seb+C. · · Score: 1

      That and the new licensing model for Office. If they go for subscription only, customers will fly like a pack of birds...

    5. Re:Windows 8 by seant2013 · · Score: 1

      Windows 8 is the true threat to windows.

      I agree with this statement. There is nothing the Chrome OS can do to Microsoft or Windows 8 that they are not already doing to themselves. Microsoft will be it's own down fall in the end.

    6. Re:Windows 8 by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't usually respond to ACs, but when figures need correcting I make an exception. MS shipped 1.25m Surface tablets Q4 last year but sales figures were only around 700,000. Compared to iPad sales of 22million over the same quarter, that's awful for a major-league product from a tech titan like MS: http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-surface-with-windows-rt-tablet-sales-disappoint-in-fourth-quarter-7000010688/

      Windows 8 also doesn't have anywhere else to go but up. It's first quarters numbers will always be inflated by people chasing the latest and greatest at any cost, large enterprises stockpiling licenses early. Also, while it's profit isn't exactly weak, it's certainly not as dominant as it was was 2010 Q1 and previously, especially compared to other tech companies - the eponymous Apple being on of them - that seem to be capitalising nicely on Microsoft's slow erosion. Whether it can be halted is another matter but based on recent sales figures, it's not looking good for Microsoft ever returning to it's former glory days.

    7. Re:Windows 8 by binarylarry · · Score: 0

      Mmmmm what does that koolaid taste like?

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    8. Re:Windows 8 by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 1

      I do exactly the same thing - I work on a helpdesk that supports both Windows and Mac. I'm also teaching myself Linux on the side, although where on earth do you start figuring out basic Linux desktop support in an environment so fractured and chaotic?! Loving CLI servers though ;)

    9. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft will be it's own down fall in the end.

      True, but not before they litter the industry with piles of litigation around over-obvious patented content.

    10. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do exactly the same thing - I work on a helpdesk that supports both Windows and Mac. I'm also teaching myself Linux on the side, although where on earth do you start figuring out basic Linux desktop support in an environment so fractured and chaotic?! Loving CLI servers though ;)

      Focus on Ubuntu and/or Red Hat for a start. Those 2 distros alone, along with their derivatives with minimal differences, should account for the vast majority of cases you would ever deal with. Really, if you only focus on Ubuntu, you'll get the biggest slice of the Linux pie along with, by far, the highest portion of users that might actually need helpdesk support.

    11. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy. You say "We support Gnome 3 desktop."

      You may install and use any desktop model you like, but we will not help you with them.

      Please ensure that you are logged into Gnome 3 when you contact us, since that is the first thing we will ask.

    12. Re:Windows 8 by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Creative accounting aside - Microsoft's share of the market is shrinking. Bear in mind that their share is so huge, that any measurable shrinkage is freaking HUGE!

      If Linux adds five million users to it's share, it will make a huge bump in the charts. When Microsoft loses five million users, it's hardly noticeable. But, over time, continued losses will add up.

      Economic ruin? Not for awhile yet.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    13. Re:Windows 8 by flappinbooger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      MS will always be around, they are too big to just disappear, but in what capacity, health and excellence they are around depends on how they deal with this portable tech iPad/iPhone/Android phenomenon.

      Everyone wanted windows 7 and it is amazing IMO and the true successor to XP but I just don't .... want ... anything they're making right now. Give me Win 7, Server 2008R2, Office 2008 and my Android devices and leave me alone for about 5 years and then come around again and see if we need anything ok?

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    14. Re:Windows 8 by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has lost the consumers, but it has not (yet) lost business. The people that think their tablets are intended for consumers are dead wrong. If consumers buy them great, but comparing iPad to Surface is an apples to oranges comparison.

      No one is currently putting line of business apps on mobiles, neither iOS nor Android. They're designed for consumer utility and entertainment not LOBs. Microsoft is betting big that they can fill the vacuum and thus fortify their position with their biggest/best customers. Does Windows 8 on the desktop offer a poor user experience, the consensus seems to say yes. It's also pretty obvious that the Windows 8 UX wasn't designed for the desktop, it was designed for mobiles. Why would they do that? I think they're probably smelling the future. Desktops are becoming increasingly niche, slowly replaced by portable form factors. While business may lag in this trend I think Microsoft sees them going the same way. They've cast their chicken bones and are making a desperate gambit based on that reading to get back on top.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    15. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is loading business apps on IOS and Android because trying to do business on a tablet is going full retard. You never go full retard.

    16. Re:Windows 8 by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Focus on Ubuntu and/or Red Hat for a start. Those 2 distros alone, along with their derivatives with minimal differences, should account for the vast majority of cases you would ever deal with. Really, if you only focus on Ubuntu, you'll get the biggest slice of the Linux pie along with, by far, the highest portion of users that might actually need helpdesk support.

      I dunno...if doing this professionally, I'd say concentrate more on RHEL. From my experience, that is the predominate (if not only) version of Linux out there in big business and govt. server rooms.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    17. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glory Days? You mean the glory days when Apple's stock was at 11 bucks and MS had to lend them money? Are you fucking Joe Analyst from I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about Indiana?

    18. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >No one is currently putting line of business apps on mobiles, neither iOS nor Android.

      Why is it that everywhere I look I see iOS and especially Android devices popping up to handle transactions in retail, restaurants, taxis/limos, etc? That may not quite be what you mean by "LOB", but tons of vendors seem to be using Android for pretty much anything that might be a role for the MS Surface.

      I think that Microsoft is counting on the "no one gets fired for choosing Microsoft" factor more than anything else. Unfortunately for them, that isn't nearly as strong of a selling point now as it was 5-10 years ago. I remember at a previous job when we ditched GroupWise for Exchange for no particular technical reason, just because the IS boss wanted to "standardize on Microsoft".

    19. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Office 2008.... on Win7 or 2008 R2? You gotta share with me how you did that....

      Perhaps you mean Office 2007 or 2010?

    20. Re:Windows 8 by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Not to mention Windows 8 got a lousy 2.25% marketshare and that was with MSFT selling Win 8 Pro at just $40! Now that they have raised the price of Windows 8 to $110 for Home and $200 for Pro? Yeah I don't see those numbers climbing much after this.

      I can tell you that as a retailer this is the first MSFT OS since WinME I'm actively not carrying, I've got nothing but bad feedback from those that tried the Win 8 units in the shop. From what I've seen if there is a Win 7 unit and a Win 8 unit side by side the Win 8 unit can have better hardware but nobody will care, they will pass right by it to buy the Win 7 unit.

      so while MSFT may be able to sell some tablets and cellphones with win 8 on the desktop and laptop nobody wants metro, they just don't like the UI. Can't say as I blame 'em either, I tried running Metro and was planning on using it 6 months but after the first 3 weeks I was ready to pull my hair out and going back to Win 7 felt like a breath of fresh air, its just not a good UI for a keyboard and mouse.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    21. Re:Windows 8 by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      leave me alone for about 5 years

      Don't worry, the licensing will change and cause cross-product incompatibilities so you have to upgrade. They're fairly genius about engineering their upgrade and licensing treadmill into their software.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    22. Re:Windows 8 by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      MS will always be around, they are too big to just disappear,

      If that is the primary reason you believe they will always be around, I guarantee you are wrong. Far bigger, and more important, entities than Microsoft have easily disappeared off the earth.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    23. Re:Windows 8 by dimeglio · · Score: 1

      Why do you think SAP (and many other business tools) is available for iOS? Exactly for l-o-b usage. It's not the consumer version of SAP.

      That so called "media consumption" device in fact does plenty more.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    24. Re:Windows 8 by dimeglio · · Score: 2

      This is going to show us if Microsoft can in fact be hurt badly enough that it will have to restructure and dump products which do not sell. I'm expecting fewer and fewer free services from them.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    25. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the eponymous Apple being on of them .

      In the words of Inigo Montoya, " You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

    26. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but if Microsoft dies (which is looks like they are trying for) it will be a long, slow death. They have the cash reserves to last a long time, quite possibly long enough to find a way to turn their business around.

    27. Re:Windows 8 by symbolset · · Score: 1

      You don't like FB integration in your PDC?

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    28. Re:Windows 8 by bazorg · · Score: 1

      yeah, yeah. +5 funny. Easy joke on Windows 8.

      I installed it on a machine that was running 7 perfectly and it took me two days of casual use to overcome the "who moved my cheese?" feeling. The eBay app was probably the first that showed me why even on a normal sized 15" laptop the de-cluttered interface works well. Now I'm just hoping that more and more applications are re-done for the modern UI.

    29. Re:Windows 8 by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > knowing just Windows, Linux, or Mac OSX is a bad idea. You are putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak

      Yeah, covering 99.999999% of the market is just dumb. Ignore Netcraft, BSD is coming!

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    30. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lemon, lime with a little bit of an almond-ish aftertaste. Oh sh...! [thud]

    31. Re:Windows 8 by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Personally I think the board will finally put down the crack pipe and punt kick Ballmer like a 30 yard field return. Hopefully they'll lure one of the actual engineers back, maybe Ozzie or Allchin, who know what windows users want and will be happy to give it to them, starting by killing TIFKAM and making Metro strictly a tablet/phone UI where it belongs. But from the reaction of my customers I'm predicting that win 8 will be a megaflop, making Vista look like a hit by comparison.

      The sad part is if they would get a CEO with a brain they could be making money hand over fist. You see the company they should be aping is NOT Apple but IBM, selling services on top of Windows so it won't matter if the user buys the latest and greatest or not as they can still make money off the existing userbase. for examples imagine being able to log into your home PC from work or vice versa as simply as plugging in a flash drive (something you have) and inputting a password (something you know) with MSFT servers taking care of authentication and key management. Or making deals with all the major content providers to sell channels in Windows Media Center, similar to what they used to have with Internet TV only with more channels and the content providers actually on board instead of fighting them. Or how about backporting the Windows appstore to Windows 7 and making deals so that all the free software you have on the machine is updated automatically? No more wondering if your software is out of date, simply hop into the appstore and it'll tell you and have download links ready.

      There is just so many ways you can make money from existing users that it isn't funny, all they need is a CEO with some common sense and a knowledge of what the Windows user wants. Hell you could even make money off of all those XP installs, a business doesn't want to upgrade? Just buy a yearly OS extension license and as long as enough companies pay they could keep providing security patches. Just give the customers what they want and watch the money roll in, continue trying to be an ersatz Apple and all they will do is fail fail fail. After all if we wanted an Apple we'd bloody well buy an Apple wouldn't we?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    32. Re:Windows 8 by Alarash · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure Windows 8 SP1 will get rid of the "don't call me Metro" UI. What else is the problem with W8? What's wrong with Windows Phone for that matter (except that it's not iOS or Android) ? It's just seems trendy to say Microsoft is going to crash and burn, while what I'm seeing is they got a kick ass Cloud platform, they are more and more involved in open standard (MPEG-DASH for instance) and projects (libgit2 or jquery), and they are more and more interoperable. I mean, seriously, what is the problem except they are not the Linux Foundation?

    33. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the subject has scued off the tangent.. Windows8 sucks, thats been agreed upon on /. %100 fold. But the discussion is ChromeOS, which is a brilliant OS, but has flaws.. What the hell are you going to do with it Offline? Dependecy on interent conncectivity urks me, I don't spend alot of time on the Web, Most of my daily computing is done Offline on Programs that will never be available on ChromeOS.. Cloud computing for lack of a bettter word, is annoying...

    34. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having everything on the cloud is annoying, problematic, and puts you in a position to be scrutinized by Admins of the cloud. I am my own Admin not to be scrutinized by the douche bags of Frobozz electric, and then have me pay for storage that is being scrutinized and searched through by these asswipes.. Do you see it yet? Probably not... I see it.. Let me show you where Waldo is... Anything and everything put on the internet even cloud is subject to federal and Administration review. The Admins of these cloud services have little minions that search through your data everyday to see what your doing.. Look at from another stand point, it's the same as letting some stranger on your "PC" which I think the acronym makes people forget that it stands for "PERSONAL COMPUTER" emphasis on personal, anyway it's the same as letting a stranger on your PC to search and look through all your data and then confront you about it.. and paying him to do it.. If your a social media fanatic ChromeOS is perfect, if aren't and care about your privacy then ChromeOS is not perfect for you..

    35. Re:Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol... Failure to do so and you will be TotmeiZed....

    36. Re:Windows 8 by jseale · · Score: 1

      I dunno...if doing this professionally, I'd say concentrate more on RHEL. From my experience, that is the predominate (if not only) version of Linux out there in big business and govt. server rooms.

      Let's not forget that Ubuntu is based on Debian which is just as good a server OS as RHEL is, no LTS policy like Ubuntu has unfortunately.

    37. Re:Windows 8 by Agares · · Score: 1

      What I meant by that was only knowing one of them, and not more, is a bad idea.

  5. LiveBook by spacemky · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Introducing the new Microsoft LiveBook. Boots right in to Microsoft's cloud-based OS. Skydrive, Skype, Office365, Bing search, Hotmail. Coming your way in 2015 or sooner.

    --
    640YB ought to be enough for anybody.
    1. Re:LiveBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's too late for Micro$oft. Everybody now knows there are other options. Buh buyy M$! Good riddance!

    2. Re:LiveBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's too late for Micro$oft. Everybody now knows there are other options. Buh buyy M$! Good riddance!

      From my parents' home in Wyoming, I stab at thee!

    3. Re:LiveBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good reference. Especially since it references a warning against "palladium". Which 10 years later became the "UEFI" bullshit that, as predicted, is nothing more than a weapon for Micro$oft (Yeah, I dollarised it too, fucking sue me) to wield against Linux and other competing OSes.

    4. Re:LiveBook by Seb+C. · · Score: 1

      2 years (or more) too late... Too bad, MS... I would shed a tear if you've not been that bad previously...

    5. Re:LiveBook by DrStrangluv · · Score: 1

      This is what Surface RT was _supposed_ to be. Too soon to say whether it's working... it's selling slowly, but it is selling.

    6. Re:LiveBook by fermion · · Score: 1
      My issue with MS is licensing and the time it wastes, as well as version support. For instance, on a Windows 7 machine I use, which is licensed, a dialog keeps popping up telling me my software my not be genuine. Why do I want to waste my time with this. I buy a computer to be productive, not fulfill someones else marketing scheme.

      So far Google has not been so bad in focusing on end users. It's development of current product, like Docs, has been disappointing but these are still useful in a limited basis, and are worth the price of free. I can see buying a chrome book if they are a good value. This would mean around $300, battery life on the order of 10 hours, 32GB SSD, and sim card so it can be used wireless with most vendors. Hard disks are unacceptable for mobile devices. I would also say more than three or so pounds would put in the class of transportable rather than mobile.

      Google seems to be having problems getting into the economy niche currently occupied by low end MS Windows machines. I don't know if anyone sees Google as a premium product. The S3 is selling as the number 2 phone in the US, but that is at the same price as the basic iPhone 5, so presumably people are paying more for the iPhone 5, even thought the S3 will have equal memory as top iPhone 5 for around $280 instead of $400. And the Note does not appear to be selling.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    7. Re:LiveBook by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

      Introducing the new Microsoft LiveBook. Boots right in to Microsoft's cloud-based OS. Skydrive, Skype, Office365, Bing search, Hotmail. Coming your way in 2015 or sooner.

      The problem is that this cannibalizes Windows to an extent that I don't Redmond is prepared to accept. They could just simply offer a cheapish tablet with features like this without it necessarily being a direct threat to Windows.

    8. Re:LiveBook by fishthegeek · · Score: 1

      That shouldn't be a problem. Either your cannibalize your own products or your competitors will do it for you. Better to the control it methinks.

      --
      load "$",8,1
    9. Re:LiveBook by binarylarry · · Score: 0

      How's that koolaid taste bro?

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    10. Re:LiveBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get linux to boot on UEFI, but it should support it out of the box. You are correct, this is something that should be implemented. The idea that we should still cling to the aging platform that is BIOS is unfounded. Having support for both is not hard. OSX does it, Windows does it, Linux should do it natively without any tinkering.

    11. Re:LiveBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So a cheaper Surface with Skydrive?

    12. Re:LiveBook by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

      > Having support for both is not hard. OSX does it, Windows
      > does it, Linux should do it natively without any tinkering.

      lilo and GRUB both support booting on UEFI. The problem is that MS is using its monopoly power to force manufacturers of ARM-based PCs to lock down UEFI to only boot with a bootloader signed by MS.

      --

      I'm not repeating myself
      I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
    13. Re:LiveBook by jimicus · · Score: 1

      This was pretty much Apple's reasoning behind the iPhone - almost every mobile phone on the planet could already play MP3's at the time, it was only a matter of time before someone put a half decent user interface on one.

      Thing is, it's a very difficult, very unusual pa for a large business to take. Usually they get so entrenched in their ways that by the time it becomes apparent they recognise a need to seriously rethink what they're doing, it's too late.

  6. Evolutionary Niche by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems that Chromebooks are trying to slide into the market slot that Netbooks are currently vacating. I'm not entirely sure I understand what's going on there, netbooks were well refined products that seem to have gone out of favour and everyone is designing Chromebooks from scratch. Considering these are effectively the new dumb terminals, you'd have thought they could've done better than a Celeron and 4.25 hours of battery life - netbooks were rather more capable than Chromebooks appears to be, cost about the same and had far superior battery life.

    Or has everyone (finally) just realised that 10" is really not that comfortable a form factor?

    1. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not entirely sure I understand what's going on there, netbooks were well refined products that seem to have gone out of favour and everyone is designing Chromebooks from scratch.

      Um... so... a product class fell out of favor, companies are redesigning said product class in an attempt to put it back in favor... and you're confused about this turn of events?

    2. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10" is ok but it depends on the form factor. Just like there are some dog chromebooks there were some really nasty netbook form factors out there. (Half screen heights, odd keyboard layouts, etc). 14" seems a little odd though, and you're dead on calling them out on battery life. It should be somewhere in between tablets and ultra books/mac air.

    3. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Chromebooks are going to be a big hit in education. I work in schools and am testing a Samsung right now. The battery life on it is rated at 6 hours, which will get you through a school day with no charging. Add to that, many school districts are taking advantage of Google's free Apps for education domains, which gives you the same version of Google Apps that businesses are paying for.

      For as low as $250 on some models you get a device that does 95% of what students need to do with it, lasts all day without charging, has a screen big enough to satisfy most kids and has a full keyboard.

      What's not to like?

    4. Re:Evolutionary Niche by geminidomino · · Score: 2

      When you consider that their "redesign" is keeping the low power and lousy battery life that played a big role in making said product class unfavorable, and focused on adding an even shittier UI...

      No, I guess it's still not confusing. That seems to be the new Tech Company M.O. these days...

    5. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel like the niche that netbooks were filling is being filled by tablets now. Most people who wanted a netbook wanted one for its small form factor and portability, and the honest fact is that a lot of people find tablets more suitable for this purpose, and they are 'hip' to top it off. As far as how Chromebooks will affect Windows? I've never had a Chromebook, but I'm eager for some more competition in the OS environment. Even if it is only like 1% of the market, ChromeOS stealing users from Windows would add variety into the market and relieve some small amount of pressure on OEMs to collapse to Microsoft's demands.

      Captcha: insolent

    6. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ChromeOS has one niche that hasn't been exploited yet, but in the day and age of VDI and wanting to not just keep devices encrypted, but preferably have no data at all that can be taken, a ChromeOS device + a Citrix Receiver can be an effective tool for a number of enterprise uses.

      In business, a ChromeOS machine solves the fear of laptop seizures across borders (nothing on the laptop, so another one can be shipped.)

    7. Re:Evolutionary Niche by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yeah, 6 hours is all day for school. When I was in school that's how much time I spent in school and doing homework. I'm not sure what's so confusing to you about that. When you figure the computer is turned off during lunch and breaks that's about what you get. Even an 8 hour a day job is really only 7 hours or so when you factor in breaktime.

    8. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How will six hours get you through a school day? My daughter's school day is 6.5 hours (8:30 till 3pm.) I guess you might be able to manage that if you don't use the laptop at lunch, but that six hours is a optimum time limit. What's the chance the kids are going to use the laptop at the right brightness level? And what are you going to do after six months when the battery performance has degraded?

    9. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chromebooks are going to be a big hit in education.

      No, Chromebooks are being given away to educational institutions for free by companies in an effort to drum up interest in their product, and what better way to indoctrinate new users than by getting to them when they're 8 years old? The history of the industry is full of examples where a new turd gets pushed out, and hailed as "the next big thing to totally kill microsoft," and it quietly fails and dies about 6 months later. There is no reason to expect that Chromebooks will be any different.

      Battery life "rated at 6 hours" means that you're likely to get 4-5, if you're doing anything other than staring at a dim screen, which means you need to have a plug at every desk, and plug it in to do homework. If you want to give kids a device that runs on battery power, it's going to need at LEAST 10 hours of battery life on a single charge to be usable in an educational environment - preferably 12 or more. With a seven hour school day, a half an hour on the bus to/from school, a couple hours of homework, maybe a trip to the library after school to do some research... you'd need to charge your 4-6hr device at least once a day, perhaps even twice if you're doing a lot of school work.

      For as low as $250 on some models you get a device that does 95% of what students need to do with it

      Meaning you have to spend another couple hundred on another device to do the remaining 5% of things students need to do; all the while subjecting them to Google's advertising and tracking; and 95% of what "students need to do with it" is about 5% of what "students actually want todo with it."

      Chromebooks are an idiotic choice for an educational environment. The OLPC was a better choice, and THAT was pretty fucking dumb in a developed country, too. Ultrabooks (and perhaps tablets, with a keyboard accessory) were a better choice than both of those, and a full powered "small & light" laptop with a solid processor, decent amount of ram, good networking, and decent local storage is better still.

    10. Re:Evolutionary Niche by water-and-sewer · · Score: 3, Funny

      I wouldn't count on it. Remember that at lunch and during breaks is when the kids will be hoping to use their Chromebooks to update their Twitter feed, check out Facebook, and Google for porn.

      You thought they'd put away the Chromebooks and sit nicely at the table to eat their sandwiches while studying their geometry lessons?

      --
      If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
    11. Re:Evolutionary Niche by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 1

      When the redesign ruins those things that actually gave that segment it's appeal in the first place, damn right I'm confused.

    12. Re:Evolutionary Niche by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 1

      Ah, now it starts to make sense. It's a play by Google to wean the office drones of the future off Office. And I guess 6 hours is okay for education when you can charge them up at recess.

    13. Re:Evolutionary Niche by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 3, Insightful

      14" isn't too bad actually, around 13-15 inches is a nice sweet spot for the keyboard if you're trying to build for people with big hands. To be honest, the best way to improve laptop usability would be to ditch that shiny coating for matt non-reflective screens instead.

      Yeah, I love my Thinkpad and I don't see myself getting over it any time soon ;)

    14. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For as low as $250 on some models you get a device that does 95% of what students need to do with it [...] What's not to like?

      The fact that a 5% of what students need to do with it are missing?

    15. Re:Evolutionary Niche by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 1

      I can dig that point of view. I saw those covers you can get for tablets with the Bluetooth keyboard built in and immediately liked the idea. If a Chromebook can manage a fast enough start-up time it could compete against tablets in the convenience stakes for a certain type of user with low requirements. However, they'll need to do something pretty special if they're looking to break any significant market share away from the current established players (I'm looking primarily at Windows, good luck luring in Mac users!) so more power to the lot of them if they manage it.

    16. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Chromebooks are going to be a big hit in education. I work in schools and am testing a Samsung right now. The battery life on it is rated at 6 hours, which will get you through a school day with no charging. Add to that, many school districts are taking advantage of Google's free Apps for education domains, which gives you the same version of Google Apps that businesses are paying for.

      For as low as $250 on some models you get a device that does 95% of what students need to do with it, lasts all day without charging, has a screen big enough to satisfy most kids and has a full keyboard.

      What's not to like?

      The other 5% is the killer.

      That pitch sounds good to people who don't understand that computers are tools. To paraphrase the sentiment with a different tool: "instead of buying a screwdriver with interchangeable heads why not spend 2/3 as much on one that can only be used on the most common size of screw?"

      The answer is of coarse: "I need something that works on more than one type of screw. Just because that type is a minority of the screws I work with does not mean I can ignore it, and buying two screwdrivers at 2/3 the cost each is both inefficient and more costly."

      Similarly while a Chomebook does 95% of what teacher/students need and costs less, teachers and students actually need a tool that does 100% vof what they need, and that isn't a Chromebook.

    17. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main problem with netbooks is that, in order to be classified as a netbook by MS, they were required to remain with the 10" screen size, have severely limited hardware and basically, remove the sex appeal. On top of that, MS' FUD against the Linux desktop meant normal users were scared to try anything not made by MS or Apple. Google changed that and now Chromebooks are a thing. Since MS can't dictate what Google does, these have potential to be much better than a netbook ever was.

    18. Re:Evolutionary Niche by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      Considering these are effectively the new dumb terminals

      Thats the problem.

      These aren't dumb terminals. The web sucks with dumb terminals. Turn off plugins and javascript, THAT would make it far more like a dumb terminal, though not completely.

      Chromebooks are just a halfassed attempt to make you think its a dumb terminal. Your Chromebook still has to run the browser, display graphics, render OpenGL, process sound and apply effects and tons of other stuff.

      A TV with a keyboard attached to the network sending key strokes to the server who then updates the display image and sends nothing more than a rendered image back to the display is how dumb terminals work.

      Chromebooks are just excuses for you to tie yourself to Google under the cover of what acts like a 'dumb' terminal.

      Chromebooks gain none of the advantages of dumb terminals, all the problems of an unpopular full blown OS and an invasion of privacy on levels not before seen in computing.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    19. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      I'm not entirely sure I understand what's going on there, netbooks were well refined products that seem to have gone out of favour and everyone is designing Chromebooks from scratch.

      The storyline that I've heard is that Microsoft killed the Netbook with their licensing requirements for Windows. To qualify for cheap copies of Windows, the hardware had to stay shitty. 2 gigs of ram, slow and small hard drives, weak CPU's and GPU's.

      So, for the consumer, why would you want to pay $300 for a laptop with 3 year old hardware when for $350 you can get a larger screen, more ram, dual core processor, etc etc...

      Which is why I think Microsoft are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to force everyone to their shitty Windows 8. Either Chrome or Windows 8 will break their previous user experience, so why not try the cheaper Chromebooks? Major PC manufacturers ditching Windows for some of their laptops is another sign, since that would have been unheard of 5 years ago...

    20. Re:Evolutionary Niche by c-A-d · · Score: 1

      >That pitch sounds good to people who don't understand that computers are tools. To paraphrase the sentiment with a different tool: "instead of buying a screwdriver with interchangeable heads why not spend 2/3 as much on one that can only be used on the most common size of screw?"

      As someone who uses screwdrivers on a regular basis, the reason not to buy the interchangable heads is - depending on the type - weight. A heavy screwdriver is tiring to use and having to hunt around for the bits can be a pain. A driver that stores the bits in the handle are, I find, bulky. The picquik style of drivers are nice, but heavy. A dedicated screwdriver, however, is light and easy to use. And I've also found that they are built to higher tolerances than interchangable drivers. It's just a better tool, even if its not as versatile.

      To take this to the chromebook/notebook comparison, the chromebook is lighter and for most people will actually do everything they need. They'll work social sites, web search sites and google drive (for the spreadsheet and work processing apps) which is akin to having a slotted, phillips and robertson head driver in your pouch (I'm Canadian. We use a lot of Robertson up here. So no comments about how uncommon they are). Not everyone needs a Torx or a Spline Wrench (think gaming or corporate data).

      --
      some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
    21. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      Schools could just shut off the wifi at lunch.

    22. Re:Evolutionary Niche by DrEldarion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you'd have thought they could've done better than a Celeron and 4.25 hours of battery life

      Look at the newest Samsung one, then: ARM processor and 6-8 hours battery life. I have one and it's a great little piece of equipment. ... and the 10" form factor was terrible. Screen too small for keeping at arm's length, and don't even get me started on the reduced-size keyboards.

    23. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Changa_MC · · Score: 1

      6 hours, which will get you through a school day with no charging

      >>6 hours
      >>all day

      lolwut?

      Indeed, can you spot the misquote that your created inside your head? "All day" is completely different wording than, "school day," with a different meaning.

      --
      Changa hates change.
    24. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Changa_MC · · Score: 1

      Turn it off during lunch, recess, and while doing math, reading books, or practicing hand-writing?
      If your kid is allowed to use a laptop for more than 4 out of 6.5 hours at school, you might want to consider sending her to a real school.

      --
      Changa hates change.
    25. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Even an 8 hour a day job is really only 7 hours or so when you factor in breaktime."

      "You thought they'd put away the Chromebooks and sit nicely at the table to eat their sandwiches while studying their geometry lessons?"

            You both are forgetting battery life is not a constant factor. It may last 6 hours new but within a few months to a year of heavy use that battery pack will last 5 or less hours. This eventually reaches a point of replacing $30 to $50 batteries every year or plugging in the unit all the time. Some how it doesn't seem cost effective figuring that in.

    26. Re:Evolutionary Niche by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      My impression is that a Chromebook is a low-end notebook that's sufficiently different from a generic machine that MS can't demand the manufacturer put Windows on it.

      After all, Windows is what killed netbooks.

    27. Re:Evolutionary Niche by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Chromebooks are way more powerful than netbooks and you can put generic Linux on them.

      The *only* difference from other low end laptops is that they don't come with Windows.

    28. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can do the other 5% at home when they do the rest of their homework.

    29. Re:Evolutionary Niche by swillden · · Score: 1

      For as low as $250 on some models you get a device that does 95% of what students need to do with it

      The Acer C7 is $199.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    30. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only have a single screwdriver in a single size. Been working fine for me for the last decade. Maybe not for you, but then the people who made the screwdriver I bought didn't need to get 100% of the market to make money.

    31. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      The true answer is you buy the one with interchangeable heads *and* the fixed-head ones. Each has their use.

    32. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      The netbook was supposed to be cheap, semi-shitty, low power hardware. Putting Windows on it meant the specs had to be bumped and hard-drives had to go old-school instead of SSD. Suddenly you're back in regular laptop territory and your point applies. They should be $200, not $300.

    33. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really hope ChromeOS doesn't take off. If you thought the UI changes that Microsoft made to Windows 8 were drastic and bad, then wait until Google starts fucking up the ChromeOS UI. They've already destroyed Gmail, Youtube (several times), Google Play, Google Image Search and plain old Google Search.

      Gmail: New shitty interface that offers nothing the old one didn't, only the new one is much slower.
      Youtube: No more customization, eyeball blinding white for everything, huge blank areas wasting space and recommendations that nobody wants.
      Google Play: Now with pop up ads every single time you download or buy anything and now you MUST have a Google+ account if you want to leave a review or rating.
      Google Image Search: Now safe search is constantly enabled unless you add "porn" to the query. No more all encompassing results.
      Google Search: Now it has overly aggressive "correction" and search results are much less relevant. It's almost impossible to find anything beyond simple and popular.

      I used to like Google, but they shit all over their users and don't listen to any feedback. I've made the transition to Bing (though it's not much better) and my next phone is definitely not going to be Android.

    34. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. Google started this by giving all K-12 and higher ed schools free Google apps domains. I'm not going to knock it as it is a hell of a lot cheaper for already cash-strapped schools.

    35. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would somebody please illuminate me as to what this mythical 5% of vital tasks are, that a Windows machine can do but a Chromebook can't?

      Are these schoolkids going to be setting up exchange servers? Do they absolutely need to be running powerpoint? Maybe the school has some DirectX-only educational games, or we should all be holding back progress yet again to cater to some crappy in-house IE6-dependent administration system.

      Someone upthread pulled this 5% figure out of their bunghole and now everybody is arguing about screwdrivers. I don't see how the Chromebook offers any less than 99.9% of what a student realistically needs from a laptop. Any significant gaps that do appear will certainly be plugged soon enough either by Google (who aren't exactly short of resources and programming talent) or by the community or by the schools themselves.

    36. Re:Evolutionary Niche by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      What's not to like?

      Ehm, the thought of a billion dollar corporation specializing in data mining and -capitalization keeping tabs on citizens since their childhood?

      It should always be opt-in.

  7. It will mean nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because most human beings value privacy, and acknowledge the concept of ownership rights.

    Microsoft is leaps and bounds ahead of Elgoog in this regard. Azure has a better chance of gaining a broader audience than ChromeOS IMHO.

    1. Re:It will mean nothing. by gander666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, no. Most people care about having shiny baubles, and them being cheap. They may "claim" to care about privacy, but in practice, they give it up pretty freely.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    2. Re:It will mean nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, no. Most people care about having shiny baubles, and them being cheap. They may "claim" to care about privacy, but in practice, they give it up pretty freely.

      Uh, yes. There is a huge difference between giving up freely, and being coerced.

      There is not a single human being on Earth that does not keep a secret they would give up freely, including you. However, they might be coerced into giving it up.

    3. Re:It will mean nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you know all recent Windows versions comes with a virus called Windows Genuine Advantage?

      Or, dare you visiting an unknown website using IE and without any shiny anti-virus software?

      As for Windows 8, Microsoft expect you to use their service the same way as you use Google's service.
      You get greater privacy by switching from GMail to Outlook? Google Drive to SkyDrive?

      To be 100% safe, you really need to build your GNU/Linux system from source code (which can be reviewed by anyone in the world).

    4. Re:It will mean nothing. by Windowser · · Score: 1

      Azure has a better chance of gaining a broader audience than ChromeOS IMHO.

      Yeah, specially if you want to take February 29th off

      --
      Avoid the MS tax, always buy I.B.M. PC's (I Built-it Myself)
    5. Re:It will mean nothing. by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. Most people care about having shiny baubles, and them being cheap. They may "claim" to care about privacy, but in practice, they give it up pretty freely.

      You always said people don’t do what they believe in,
      they just do what’s most convenient, then they repent.

      And I always said, “Hang on to me, baby,
      and let’s hope that the roof stays on”.

      – Bob Dylan/Sam Shepard, “Brownsville Girl”

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    6. Re:It will mean nothing. by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      The truth is, that Google can find you even when you're actively trying not to be seen.

      For instance, my Android is not tied up to my regular Gmail account, but I bet Google knows just by browsing habits. (Yes, Android and Gmail are both Google products; but they are the best and cheapest.)

      People think about what they "share" in terms of the explicit. But it's knowing the implicit information that is really valuable to Google and Facebook, and scariest for the users.

      So it's more like people not knowing what they are agreeing to. It's a problem for individual rights and will become a problem for democracy (if or when Google bevlvomes a Govt agency).

  8. Of course it's a threat! by rs1n · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Chrome OS is a threat in that it enables users to easily make use of Google's applications. As far as operating systems go, Windows 8 is the biggest threat to MS (in the sense that it is probably causing a lot of users to steer away from MS). But as a platform for using Google's services, MS definitely will have to worry seeing as how many of Google's applications (e.g. Google Docs) eat into Microsoft's profits.

    1. Re:Of course it's a threat! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS definitely will have to worry seeing as how many of Google's applications (e.g. Google Docs) eat into Microsoft's profits.

      If my experience is normal then Google Docs is pretty much the one Google application Microsoft doesn't need to fear. We've been using Google Apps for Business at our place since last year. There are only twelve people in our office and we still can't leave Office without losing too much functionality. Docs is a decent replacement for Word and barely a replacement for Excel. It doesn't come close to replacing the whole Office suite.

      We use Excel/Access/Outlook integration heavily so of course YMMV.

    2. Re:Of course it's a threat! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until the cloud has 100% uptime, probably not.

  9. Re:Windows? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    Because you live in the real world where Windows is pretty much the corporate standard and there's no way to get away from it?

    You can get away from it on personal machines, but in any office environment -- Microsoft isn't going anywhere.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  10. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And why would I want to pay for a poorly wriiten piece of crap?

    I dunno. Why would anyone want to read your poorly wriiten comments?

  11. Re:Windows? by water-and-sewer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd otherwise have agreed with you, but I'm starting to see change. A guy I know who works for the US government (probably the organization you'd expect to leap on board new tech trends *last*) reports his new CIO is aggressively investigating Google products, google hosted email, and so on.

    If that's true, there's hope. Face it: Microsoft was a real innovator in the early 90s. Maybe even the late 90s. And for a while there, Microsoft software was useful in ways other software was not.

    That age ended long ago, and increasingly Microsoft finds itself struggling to catch up. They have no mojo with the "young" generation, and since Windows/Office has produced no software worth writing home about. Google now has enough brand name recognition even the most easily scared/reticent CIOs can suggest Google products without fear of getting "the blank stare."

    Good times for everyone. Bad times for Ballmer (who should've gotten his ass thrown out the Microsoft door - or is it a window - many, many years ago). That guy is sinking the Microsoft ship.

    --
    If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
  12. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you speaking from qualitative experience of the Windows source code there, or just repeating what all the cool kids on the forums say?

  13. For content consumption, perhaps by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    For casual use, content consumption, sure. It fills the same niche as those netbooks of a few years ago, and tablets (for the most part) now. But for content creation, they need apps that are currently only ported to Winders and OSX. So, will Chrome OS be a threat to Winders? Don't ask me, ask the developers. I couldn't possibly care less what OS the device is running. I'm only concerned about what I can do with it.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:For content consumption, perhaps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      that chromebooks have an SSH app is a big plus for anyone doing dev work - this, a cheap vps, github, an online editor like cloud9, a simple image editor like pixlr, and you're away. the flow isn't quite as good as using a desktop (the basic chromebook does complain quite a lot with lots of tabs open) but it's a hell of a lot smoother than windows 8 - for such a young platform, it's really quite usable.

    2. Re:For content consumption, perhaps by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I could easily see it being used in my field (education) as a general-use student machine. If they need to do anything heavier (video editing, graphic design) they could move to a workstation.

    3. Re:For content consumption, perhaps by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > but it's a hell of a lot smoother than windows 8

      Damning with faint praise.

      But you're right, depending on the *kind* of development, there are inexpensive tools out there to do that. I do photography, and I basically need the Adobe suite. (Don't say Gimp. Just don't. Yes, I have used it, and it's better than nothing. My workflow doesn't fit with its assumptions.) At the moment, my solution on a slate or a non-Windows (non-Apple) laptop, is to remote into a Windows box or Mac running my tools, which is ... less than satisfactory.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    4. Re:For content consumption, perhaps by breeze95 · · Score: 1

      For casual use, content consumption, sure. It fills the same niche as those netbooks of a few years ago, and tablets (for the most part) now. But for content creation, they need apps that are currently only ported to Winders and OSX. So, will Chrome OS be a threat to Winders? Don't ask me, ask the developers. I couldn't possibly care less what OS the device is running. I'm only concerned about what I can do with it.

      Why does Chromebook need apps that are currently only available on Windows or OSX? The average person creates virtually all their content using a word processor, spreadsheet and presentation software. You can add video creation for the purpose of uploading to social networks to the list. The average person can do all of those things with Chromebook. Also, Chrome market has applications for small business or personal use in accounting, finance, ERP, SaaS, business tools, education, utilities, etc with more productivity apps added frequently. Granted, Chrome doesn't have the rich and diverse ecosystem as Windows, but the apps available to Chromebook market meets the need of the average user.

  14. Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I *need* Windows, the apps I run can only run on Windows. Yet I cannot find a Windows PC that's suitable.

    I want, i7 or i5, 4Gb+ ram, big portrait monitor for code, these days 2500 vertical pixels I think should be the minimum. I want mouse and window system, because touch doesn't really work on a big screen. I want quiet, I want DVDR+-, card reader, reliable big hard disks, RAID perhaps, maybe SSD if the price come way down.

    I took a look at the Windows 8 all in ones, there's a Dell one with a big 27" screen. Yet you can't rotate the screen into portrait for code editing, the DVD is on the side, and would be on the bottom if you rotated it! I also see them use touch in the review video by tilting the screen till it's almost flat. Seriously? Do you imagine anyone wants to use it like that?? What are they going to do? Tilt it to touch and move the mouse, then tilt it vertically to read the screen??

    It's like Microsoft's directionless right now, a ship without a captain, just trying to copy Apple or Google depending on what day of the week it is!

    So, IMHO, Chrome will take the just-for-surfing market, because Ballmer seems quite clueless. But the core development/business market they could still keep simply by basic competence. Yet they push Windows 8 to everyone????? Why! Seriously why push a touch OS on a non-touch user??

    1. Re:Agreed by dingen · · Score: 0, Troll

      I *need* Windows, the apps I run can only run on Windows.

      I suppose you mean "the apps I want to run are only available on Windows", because obviously there is no such thing as software that is only able to run on Windows. A computer running Windows is just a turing machine, like any other computer and thus cannot execute code another computer can't.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    2. Re:Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you want a desktop.

    3. Re:Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rather than shop for all-in-ones or tablets, perhaps you should shop for a desktop that meets the specifications you outlined. Download a copy of Windows 7 from your faggot-friend's wares FTP.

      Wow, slashdot. Rein in your fucking posters or get the fuck off the internet.

    4. Re:Agreed by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Funny

      This isn't informative. Its pedantic and unuseful in every possible way.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    5. Re:Agreed by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Just go DIY, then you can have it YOUR way and run whatever you want. From the specs you listed it sounds like you want this kit which is an i5 with 12GB of RAM, although personally I'd say the best bang for the buck is this AMD kit which gives you 6 cores and 8GB of RAM for less than $250.

      I've built a couple of the 1045T based kits and they are pretty nice, I'd change out the stock cooler for a Hyper 212 or N520 though as they drop the temps pretty significantly over the stock coolers.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    6. Re:Agreed by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      He didn't say "algorithms that run only on Windows", he said "apps that run only on windows".

    7. Re:Agreed by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > the apps I run can only run on Windows
      > > I suppose you mean "the apps I want to run are only available on Windows", because obviously there is no such thing as software that is only able to run on Windows. A computer running Windows is just a turing machine, like any other computer and thus cannot execute code another computer can't.

      Shit. Is this my ex-wife? It sure sounds like her.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    8. Re:Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen!

  15. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure that's what Blackberry makers thought, only to watch their smartphone dominance go *poof* in just a few years.

    Do you know how corporate players will see Chrome OS? Easy to install, zero maintenance needed, secure and trustworthy sources. All the benefits of Linux and Windows combined. Security of the first and ease of use of the second.

  16. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will see about that soon enough. I'm guessing when most sysadmins and enterprise users "use" something else at home, the enterprise will have no choice but to follow. How do you think windows got into the enterprise? Certainly not because of it was better than anything else available at that time.

  17. right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And revenue down 20% overall...

  18. What is the market niche of ChromeOS? by JDG1980 · · Score: 2

    I'm not really sure where ChromeOS is supposed to fit in. For people who want to do heavyweight stuff, it's no substitute for a full-fledged OS, and people who just want a content consumption device have mostly already switched to smartphones and tablets running iOS or Android. I sort of see where it fits into Google's marketing strategy – it's an OS for people to live their entire life "in the cloud" – but is there any actual demand for that? One thing we should have learned from the WinRT and WinPhone fiascos is that just because a company thinks a product is strategically important doesn't mean that its customers are going to agree.

    1. Re:What is the market niche of ChromeOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google seems to be targeting education pretty heavily with Chromebooks. There have been a number of posts and articles about this. I believe they are offering them at $99, although I haven't confirmed this and I don't know what model(s) qualify.

      Outside of that, they are pretty handy around the house as a secondary light laptop that can be brought into any room for quick lookups, forum posts, etc (similar to tablets and phones but with a builtin keyboard.) I understand university students like to use them on campus as a relatively cheap device that they can use with campus wifi for research and writing papers.

    2. Re:What is the market niche of ChromeOS? by metrometro · · Score: 1

      It's a tablet with a keyboard.

    3. Re:What is the market niche of ChromeOS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter how much market share ChromeOS gets. As long as it's more than zero, manufacturers can negotiate a very good price for there Windows licenses. Remember when Microsoft EOL'ed Windows XP? Netbook manufacturers said: "Yes, you are right, maybe we should stop selling XP. Did you see the recent spike in Ubuntu netbook sales?" And they got there XP licences, at a price probably between 1 and 10 dollars each, some large manufacturers may even have negotiated a negative price.

    4. Re:What is the market niche of ChromeOS? by guitarMan666 · · Score: 1

      I bought a Chromebook to act as a secondary machine after my laptop died. I wanted something that had decent battery life, a keyboard and the ability to connect to the internet. I wasn't looking to play games (I have a phone, tablet and desktop for that), I wasn't looking to do heavy graphics work (I don't do it) or even my music hobby (again, desktop). The Chromebook boots up in seconds and lasts more than six hours on a charge (comparing 1.5 hours on my previous laptop). The use of the Google Apps on the Chromebook (or any webapp) is just so much easier. It's just another option to have. It's for people who want to use cloud services and need quick access anywhere that sits between a tablet and a full-fledged laptop.

    5. Re:What is the market niche of ChromeOS? by snadrus · · Score: 1

      For people who need to do Real Work in Cloud apps. Email, IM, Accounting, various Management, Online Education (outside CS), Data Entry, Blogging, Web Content Creation & more are all available on a device no-one is going to screw-up easily. They're high reliability (low setup & virus risk) systems for people who don't mind being limited to just the Internet.
      The wide variety of platform dev targets is causing anything & everything with a UI to consider a Web/Cloud app interface (for all the devices your regular development missed).

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
  19. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "... poorly wriiten piece of crap?"

    Kinda like your comment?

  20. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I totally agree. Look at that ship sinking under Ballmer's tenure. The shareholders must be furious over 12 straight years of billion dollar profits. http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427ee35g2o7iim

  21. Good riddance to instability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    People just want something that works and requires little to no maintenance to maintain stability. That's why Android phones and tablets have been very successful globally. On the other hand, just performed a clean install of Windows 8 Pro and while it's noticeably less laggy than Vista it still brings the headache of instability.

  22. Not much by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    People and systems need Windows, I don't think we'll reach a point where we can finally sever the birth cord to it, no matter what at some point there will need to be a windows computer running. Microsoft might see sales drop off a bit but they wont, at least for a long while, need to really worry.

    1. Re:Not much by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      I don't need Windows for anything except as a platform to run certain applications on. Games, Office, Photoshop, Lightroom and TaxCut are the key actors.

      As soon as something without the monkeybusiness that Windows exposes me to (i.e. needless churn) like this Windows 8 malarkey is available I'm no longer a Windows user.

      I don't particularly see it happening any time soon, but who knows, we might get lucky.

    2. Re:Not much by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1
      You just mentioned

      Except as a platform to run Certain Applications

      Thats my point, most people at some level need Windows even if it's for that one application that they forgot about.

    3. Re:Not much by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      I don't need Windows. I need the applications I listed.

  23. Re:Windows? by dingen · · Score: 1

    Good thing I can get away from corporate office environments then!

    --
    Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
  24. Chrome OS is Linux with a shell running by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I find it interesting that Google can repackage Linux with their own web browser and call it an operating system, and we have no problem with that, yet will engage in lengthy discussions about whether Stallman really invented GNU/Linux.

  25. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The US government is not a monolith. In the USDA where I currently contract, Google Chrome is banned from installation. There is alternating reticence and enthusiasm from the various agencies I've worked with lately about cloud solutions, so there a patchwork of 'progress' depending on how that's even defined.

  26. Chrome OS is great for what it is... by zoid.com · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've been using Chrome OS for over 2 years since google sent me a CR-48. I use it daily to catch up on news, emails, comics, facebook .... It sits on my nightstand is perfect for how I use it. The OS is really nice and easy to use. I would no hesitate to buy one of these devices for my dad, aunt, etc where I have to be "tech support".

  27. Niche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a niche market in which Windows has only been the traditional default OS by virtue of brand recognition and stability versus other Linux variants -- sorry, but as much as I wish otherwise, that latter bit is true for the userbase at which this product is aimed.

    So, the "expanding world" of Chrome OS will pretty much mean two things for Windows: jack and shit.

  28. Re:What will it mean to microsoft? by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 2

    Yes, but if that half of the ass is the only part you use (Docs, web browsing, web 2.0 apps) Then it's a good, cheap alternative.

  29. When TCO approaches zero... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It starts becoming a threat when Google makes it very cheap (approaching free) to own a Chrome OS device.
    This will eventually be possible because Google is not in the software or hardware business, they are in the advertising business,
    an industry that values collecting personal information to profile a potential sales audience.
    Google will cause the collapse of the traditional software and hardware vendors because they will not be able to compete with free.
    User content is king.

    Well at least that is my 2c prediction...

    1. Re:When TCO approaches zero... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TCO only approaches zero if your personal information has no value to you.

      I'd be happy to pay money for devices and software that are free of intrusive advertising and tracking.

    2. Re:When TCO approaches zero... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sure there would be more people who would prefer a free mobile/tablet/netbook in exchange for their personal information than those who would not.
      I tell ya.. Poverty makes people do the strangest things.

    3. Re:When TCO approaches zero... by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      >> Poverty makes people do the strangest things.

      Yeah, like not caring so much about using the Internet, whether it's free or not.

      Are we talking developing countries or junkies?

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
  30. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in a software development environment for embedded Linux. IT has to make provision for allowing Linux hosts to connect despite IT being a Windows shop. Now any sole can use Linux in our enterprise because engineers forced the need to use Linux desktops.

  31. K12... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In North America, Chromebooks are largely an education (K12) play. The "traditional" OEMs are seeing tremendous market share erosion to iPads in schools - So this provides them with something to sell. The schools struggle with iPads because they're expensive (next to no edu-discounting from Apple), fragile, difficult to manage and are theft targets. It's also difficult to create content (such as writing and essay) on iPad.

    1. Re:K12... by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      In North America, Chromebooks are largely an education (K12) play.

      Just like netbooks initially. Remember they were Intel's reaction to the OLPC project.

    2. Re:K12... by swillden · · Score: 1

      In North America, Chromebooks are largely an education (K12) play.

      I disagree. They may well be useful in that space, but the fact is that they've been flying off the shelves at Best Buy, Amazon, etc., and it's not schools that are buying them. Everyone I know that's used one really likes it. They're not (yet) a good sole computer for most people, but at the price point they are a great additional computer for a lot of people. My daughter uses one for most of her computing, and I bought one that we just keep in the kitchen for random use, even though most of us have laptops.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  32. Re:Windows? by macbeth66 · · Score: 2

    Oh, I have NO idea what the source code looks like. I just know how it behaves. If it were written well, it wouldn't have to reboot it so often nor would it crash on me all the time. Both the Mac's OS and Linux are better choices.

    Although, I do have to say, Windows XP was well done. Security was questionable, but over all, from a user perspective, it was well thought out. However, how long ago did XP come out.

  33. Why? Because of Office? Visual Studio? Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, you should use Open Office, or Libre Office.

    I think Visual Studio in software development has already been Eclipse'd by Eclipse, when developers started focusing on Android & server side Java, Eclipse works better for that. Well at least that's what's happened with us, Visual studio isn't used now.

    We still have Office licenses at work, but I can't think of the last time I wrote a text document for print out. So I've never opened MS Word! Excel is use by who? Not by me! Maybe someone in accounts? Database? We use Oracle, why would we use SQL Server?
    Source control? Perforce, I don't even know what comes with that MS bundle anymore. Management order it, but I don't know why! Habit? I don't want it, they just buy a per-seat license and nobody ever wonders if we actually need it!

    So you can say Microsoft aren't going anywhere because they own the corporate, but that's really just to focus on Chrome and ignore the fact they've been replaced in all areas by free or better products!

    What killer app is locking Microsoft into any market now?

    1. Re:Why? Because of Office? Visual Studio? Excel? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Seriously, you should use Open Office, or Libre Office.

      Seriously, you should try suggesting that a multi-billion dollar, multi-national. Small shops, maybe, but larger corporations? I doubt it.

      There's a lot of inertia involved to start moving corporations to something like Open Office, and corporations want to be sure they have support contracts with a vendor who can actually fix the problems -- not someone who can look at the code and submit a patch. They don't want to post on some internet forum, they want to be able to hold someone to the terms of a contract -- and I'm not convinced Open Office even covers all of the functionality people expect.

      It's all of the non-technical people in all of those other jobs that keep businesses running which are going to howl the loudest if you start removing Microsoft products. And Slashdot frequently forgets that, as a group, we are NOT representative of how the rest of the world uses computers, and most of us are even further removed from how they buy software.

      What killer app is locking Microsoft into any market now?

      I don't disagree that for many people, there are alternatives -- but Microsoft is firmly entrenched, and is now like IBM was in the 80's and 90's, it's what everybody uses and they don't feel a strong need to move away.

      But don't confuse the fact that there are alternatives with the fact that companies will continue to go with Microsoft for years to come. I can see them losing market share for home users, but a lot of places already have invested a lot in it, and continue to invest more into it for things like Sharepoint.

      Many companies are now spending literally millions of dollars to roll out Win 7 ... and they're not going to walk away from that expense.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Why? Because of Office? Visual Studio? Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me about it, we are still seing a lot of access97 database and Excel97 workbook. We've just migrated to office 2007 3-4 years ago...

    3. Re:Why? Because of Office? Visual Studio? Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS will keep going for quite a while on inertia, but that doesn't mean they are immortal. The universal use of Microsoft in the business world is less than 20 years old, which *seems* like forever, but is just a brief episode in the larger picture. If you go back a generation further, folks might have said "no multibilllion-dollar multinational corporation will ever use anything but IBM mainframes". At some point the paradigm will shift again, and the Windows "business desktop" will go the way of the buggy whip.

    4. Re:Why? Because of Office? Visual Studio? Excel? by c-A-d · · Score: 1

      I don't think Microsoft will go that far (buggy whips). Their dominance on the desktop will decrease and they'll focus on server side becoming just another vendor in a sea of vendors. I think that scares them the most. No longer can they sell their products from their name. Instead, it'll be, "Yeah, you're Microsoft. So what?".

      --
      some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
  34. What you're getting is by DiamondGeezer · · Score: 1

    A piece of hardware that boots very fast to a browser and is semi-useful when connected to the Internet.

    When the Internet is not available, you have a useless metal brick.

    --
    Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
  35. Backwards compatability by jader3rd · · Score: 1

    If Chromebooks are a hit, it's evidence around how much backwards compatibility is important; or in other words, how it might be unimportant. Windows is full of bugs, which don't get fixed, or have really nasty work arounds, because somebody has a crappy written piece of software that they tell the Windows team that they can't live without. So Windows merrily, goes along shimming, or not fixing existing bugs. Perhaps a successful Chromebook would show the Windows team that the type of customers who refuse to pay for updates to broken applications are also the type of customers who aren't going to buy new copies of Windows. Giving Microsoft the guts to risk breaking 15 year old software, is what Chromebooks might do to Windows.

    1. Re:Backwards compatability by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      I would imagine that the iPhone and the iPad would have shown that to Microsoft. Unfortunately, Ballmer is beyond the point of realization. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, especially when the dog is stuck in a rut playing the single trick it learned as a pup.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
  36. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you know how corporate players will see Chrome OS?

    yes, as another pain in the ass to manage, configure, and deploy.

    Also, corporate players are big on "corporate standards" - single standards that everybody uses. Chromebooks might be sufficient for "those guys in sales." They're not gonna cut it for "the guys in Engineering." Corporate standards are selected on the basis of "which device satisfies ALL of the needs of ANY of our users?"

    Which means the engineering guys get slightly-slower-than-they wanted hardware, the sales guys get way-faster-than-they-needed hardware, and EVERYBODY runs Windows, Office, and Sametime for easy sharing, administration, and communication.

    Also, there's going to be a (very legitimate) fear of Chromebooks opening holes through which corporate data will end up leaked or stolen, since all of their data storage and applications are "online in the cloud."

    Why is it that whenever there's a "cloud" story on Slashdot, the overwhelming response is "LOL UR AN IDIOT IF U TRUST THE CLOUD," but as soon as Google offers a "cloud" based, only-available-online set of tools, the overwhelming response seems to be, "Google! Your dick! I need it in my mouth now"?

  37. Re:Windows? by macbeth66 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Yes, my company laptop uses Windows 7. But I did not pay for it. I use Outlook because it hooks into their email system that combines scheduling and tele-conferencing.

    Everything else is open source because I have that choice. My development work is all on Unix.

    Microsoft isn't going anywhere

    Everyday, I am hearing of more and more people using an iPad or and Andoid tablet as their daily working machine. Sure, they still have that Windows desktop, but many days, it isn't even turned on. How much longer will the wallets of that 'office environment' be willing to shell out for an unused system?

    So in a few years, can I quote you about MS?

  38. re-revolutionary niche. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    I feel like the niche that netbooks were filling is being filled by tablets now.

    No netbooks as a more portable cheaper, laptops never went out of fashion...look at a Macbook Air or a Surface. Microsoft killed the netbook, Tablets simply are immune to Windows.

    1. Re:re-revolutionary niche. by Teckla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microsoft killed the netbook, Tablets simply are immune to Windows.

      I think this is one of the most insightful comments here.

      Microsoft went out of their way to make sure the netbook experience sucked, thus it's no surprise the netbook market has shrunk considerably.

      Fortunately, Microsoft has not been able to sabotage the tablet market.

    2. Re:re-revolutionary niche. by symbolset · · Score: 1

      They tried. But the iPad took off so fast they couldn't snipe it on the runway. They got caught looking.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  39. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are not using the computer right or you have some faulty hardware or drivers if you are experiencing Windows OS crashes "all the time." You should only have to reboot when you install updates (and generally not every time).

    Yea, I think you have some serious issues with either yourself or your computer(s).

  40. All things Google.. beware! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pure NSA/corporate spyware

  41. What cannot be done with a modern browser? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Professional development:
    Yes, we probably cannot do real-world programming projects merely inside a browser.
    But old school people should really do a Google/Bing search to see how many online compilers / IDEs / interactive learning environments are already available.
    Yes, I've seen low-end embedded chips with proprietary and Windows-only supply software.
    But how many people ever seen "embedded" and "chip" been put together; who cares?
    Anyway, how many normal people still have ideas about programming today?

    Professional authoring:
    We all know there are Google Apps.
    There are a shit load of sophisticated online graphical editor already.
    Yes, there is no Adobe Crappy Suite.
    Crappy Suite is cryptic enough for some people to make a living, quite cool.
    Most personal could take a break away from Adobe stuff at some point, though.

    Professional gaming:
    Most non-hard-core game should be available right in iPad or Android tablets.
    There are Windows-only hard-core games.
    What about waiting some time for PlayStation 4 or Xbox next, though?

    I'd like to see if someone can add something new into the list.

  42. Disagree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "because obviously there is no such thing as software that is only able to run on Windows"

    If they don't port it, it doesn't run, and their commercial decision isn't a turin machine. There *is* such a thing as software that can only run on Windows.

  43. ChromeOS does not work like that by tuppe666 · · Score: 3, Informative

    A piece of hardware that boots very fast to a browser and is semi-useful when connected to the Internet.

    When the Internet is not available, you have a useless metal brick.

    ChomeOS and Google Docs do not need a permanent internet link. The work offline quite nicely. Here is a quick overview...I Googled it. http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/landing.html

  44. Apple arn't even in the fight. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Google itself has no chance against iOS

    Seriously you been asleep. iOS could be made from magic of unicorns tears and nobody would care. Its not its kind of stuck in a time loop from 2007, but the fact is they take profits over Market share which makes them irrelevant.

  45. Its not a tablet by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    It's a tablet with a keyboard.

    Right now it doesn't even have touchscreen; it has more in common with your standard desktop. I personally would like ChromeOS to come touchscreen with a little android compatibility thrown in :)

    1. Re:Its not a tablet by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I personally would like ChromeOS to come touchscreen with a little android compatibility thrown in :)

      I can't for the life of me figure out how you'd mix a keyboard and a touch screen and have that make sense.

      Ergonomically, it would suck to have to reach up to your monitor from typing ... it would look like hitting the carriage return on an old typewriter or something. :-P

      On my desk, my monitor is about a foot or more behind my keyboard, I'd need to lean forward to even touch it.

      Either I'm suffering from a large lack of imagination, or all of these people clamoring for a keyboard and a touch screen haven't thought this through. It seems more like you'd get a bad compromise of both.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Its not a tablet by monkeykoder · · Score: 1

      I'm waiting for the days of 55" touchscreens with virtual keyboards as standup workstations.

    3. Re:Its not a tablet by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      I can't for the life of me figure out how you'd mix a keyboard and a touch screen and have that make sense.

      Ergonomically, it would suck to have to reach up to your monitor from typing ... it would look like hitting the carriage return on an old typewriter or something. :-P

      On my desk, my monitor is about a foot or more behind my keyboard, I'd need to lean forward to even touch it.

      Either I'm suffering from a large lack of imagination, or all of these people clamoring for a keyboard and a touch screen haven't thought this through. It seems more like you'd get a bad compromise of both.

      Let me first be clear: I agree with this. However, all you wrote doesn't still mean that having Android compatibility in ChromeOS wouldn't be a good idea. After all, some Android apps are better suited for phones, others are better (or actually exclusive to) tablets, and this trend is going to continue as Android tablets take ever larger chunks of the tablet market. I can easily imagine companies modifying some of their tablet-centric apps to run well on a keyboard-and-mouse device such as a Chromebook. It really isn't rocket surgery.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    4. Re:Its not a tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I've seen it from someone with a laptop and a touch screen, it's a second row of F keys that maps to your open apps. Which is fater alt-tab-tab-tab, or pressing a virtual 'key' above F6. It's also egronomically nicer to scroll stuff with your thumb using the bottom corner eg: read stuff with one hand balancing the laptop on your knee while scrolling, and have the other hand free to drink coffee/whatever.

      Believe it or not you get used to it really quick, and I can't see my next laptop not having a touch screen.

  46. Small quiet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YES please, a desktop, but much smaller much quieter, and with a RAID and Windows 7 and less fuss.

    When I look, I get Nettops (too slow) or faster all in ones (but Windows 8 touch), I then need to add the RAID myself, (if possible which I doubt).

    It's like you can give me what I want, but only in a big box from the last millenium, and even then I have to modify it to add the RAID. The 1990's called, they want their mini-tower case back.

  47. nokia was just a trial run by iainmalcolm1 · · Score: 1

    Looks like what M$ did to nokia was just a test run before doing it to themselves

  48. Give it 10 years and then we'll see by daniel_l_mills · · Score: 1

    In ten years chrome may provide a commensurate level of productivity that Windows does today. But by that time Windows will have achieved a new level of being all together. What's most disturbing about Chrome is the short-sighted strategy that it will be an alternative to Windows without acknowledging how much ground it has to make up. If you want me to be excited about Chrome give me a vision, not just some hype based on anti-Microsoft sentiment. I’d love to see Chrome do something meaningful in computing and society but right now it’s on the wrong track and the only fuel for its marketing engine is irrational exuberance.

  49. Competition = Good by Drethon · · Score: 1

    Except for those with the near monopolies...

  50. Re:Windows? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    So in a few years, can I quote you about MS?

    Sure, go ahead ... statistically I'll be no more wrong than pundits, economists, analysts, and CEOs will be on the topic; and I've got a 50/50 chance of being right. ;-)

    If I was an Australian economist, those would be good odds.

    If you're making long-term, high-dollar decisions based on what I or anybody else on Slashdot says ... well, you'd have to be an idiot to do that. In fact, from what I've seen, all those companies making choices based on what Gartner or any other market analyst says would be as well off flipping their own coins.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  51. Goodbye MS by crhylove · · Score: 1

    Microsoft should be scared shitless. I've done ONE test install of Windows 8, HATED it. I've been installing Linux Mint xfce edition (x64) all OVER the place. Love it. Same functionality as XP, more stable, quicker boot, better software selection out of box.

    The ONLY problem with mint atm is that skype is not quite as good (go figure). If google steps up the game and gets google hangouts as good or better than skype and/or gotomeeting (the screen sharing in google is totally unusable right now), I don't see Microsoft as having a chance at all in any market.

    At least not amongst the IT educated who see all the other options.

    And Mac? How can any shop justify the pricing? LOL

    Our sysadmins are all on nagios/android now with anag in particular. Most of us aren't even using linux except when we're doing the actual installs. Everything is android now. And the prices keep dropping.

    It's game over. Microsoft and Apple are done, and I'm not going to miss them at all. Corporate scum bags should've been put out of their misery years ago. Especially apple with their drm crap. When I explain to apple users how they've been screwed by apple.... Which is not hard to do, they relook at my jellybean phone and tablet, realize that both of them TOGETHER are cheaper than an iphone, and instantly vow never to buy apple again.

    I don't know a single person who has any feelings about Windows 8 other than abject hatred. NOBODY is switching to that here. Even on calls where a client got a new machine, their question is always, "How can I downgrade?" For the majority of them (non-gamers in particular), I convince them to use Mint xfce edition, and they couldn't be happier. Now with Steam growing it's library on Linux? The gamers are next. As soon as Civilization 2 comes to steam, I won't even need my old microXP VM any more!

    These are good times for Linux, for open source, for human freedom, and for the tech industry. I for one welcome our new open source overlords.

    PS Not to be an unabashed google fanboy. I disable google now everywhere I go (battery chewing spyware), as well as killing all the maps background data processes, etc.. Google is great, but only if you install android fresh and turn off all their spyware.

    --
    I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
    1. Re:Goodbye MS by goruka · · Score: 1

      lol

    2. Re:Goodbye MS by elucido · · Score: 1

      Microsoft should be scared shitless. I've done ONE test install of Windows 8, HATED it. I've been installing Linux Mint xfce edition (x64) all OVER the place. Love it. Same functionality as XP, more stable, quicker boot, better software selection out of box.

      The ONLY problem with mint atm is that skype is not quite as good (go figure). If google steps up the game and gets google hangouts as good or better than skype and/or gotomeeting (the screen sharing in google is totally unusable right now), I don't see Microsoft as having a chance at all in any market.

      At least not amongst the IT educated who see all the other options.

      And Mac? How can any shop justify the pricing? LOL

      Our sysadmins are all on nagios/android now with anag in particular. Most of us aren't even using linux except when we're doing the actual installs. Everything is android now. And the prices keep dropping.

      It's game over. Microsoft and Apple are done, and I'm not going to miss them at all. Corporate scum bags should've been put out of their misery years ago. Especially apple with their drm crap. When I explain to apple users how they've been screwed by apple.... Which is not hard to do, they relook at my jellybean phone and tablet, realize that both of them TOGETHER are cheaper than an iphone, and instantly vow never to buy apple again.

      I don't know a single person who has any feelings about Windows 8 other than abject hatred. NOBODY is switching to that here. Even on calls where a client got a new machine, their question is always, "How can I downgrade?" For the majority of them (non-gamers in particular), I convince them to use Mint xfce edition, and they couldn't be happier. Now with Steam growing it's library on Linux? The gamers are next. As soon as Civilization 2 comes to steam, I won't even need my old microXP VM any more!

      These are good times for Linux, for open source, for human freedom, and for the tech industry. I for one welcome our new open source overlords.

      PS Not to be an unabashed google fanboy. I disable google now everywhere I go (battery chewing spyware), as well as killing all the maps background data processes, etc.. Google is great, but only if you install android fresh and turn off all their spyware.

      FLStudio still only runs in Windows. They still have a monopoly on that. They also have gaming.

    3. Re:Goodbye MS by crhylove · · Score: 1

      My larger point is that this is becoming the exception rather than the rule. And I addressed gaming directly. Steam is a huge part of the gaming market, and it's on Linux now, with titles being added almost daily. Then of course, all the nintendo emulators work great in linux... :)

      --
      I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
    4. Re:Goodbye MS by virgnarus · · Score: 1

      TL;DR: This is the year of the Linux desktop!

  52. Microsoft is really in trouble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only on the desktops MS is on top, but it's not 90s anymore when there was only desktop market. The market has widened to desktop, phones and tablets. Android and iOS (OS X) has dominating 65% share and it's growing fast, pic: http://www.cultofandroid.com/19298/how-ios-android-are-murdering-microsoft

  53. Another question title? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like /. can't run out of interrogation marks.

  54. Samsung Chromebook by elliott666 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I just picked up a Chromebook yesterday and am fast at work getting Ubuntu running on it. It's a great little machine, fast, light, great battery, cheap as heck. It's perfect for just getting online fast.

    These things are going to really slice away at the low cost PC market which in turn will take a real dig at Windows. When I see the market share numbers for where Windows is at I see most of it as just people picking up the cheapest thing they can find to get online. These Chromebooks are perfect for that and undercut the price by a huge amount. This Samsung was $215 from Best Buy. All the Windows 8 machines they had there were several hundred dollars more.

    1. Re:Samsung Chromebook by wallsg · · Score: 1

      But will it run Crysis?

  55. Stop thinking single input by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    I can't for the life of me figure out how you'd mix a keyboard and a touch screen and have that make sense.

    I use a keyboard and mouse for 3D shoot'em action; A Joypad for Platform ....and touchscreen for RTS. Why would you want to be confined to the one form of input.

    1. Re:Stop thinking single input by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to be confined to the one form of input.

      It's not that I wish to be constrained, I just can't figure out how having my desktop machine have a keyboard and a touchscreen would work from an ergonomics perspective.

      I would need to extend my arm fully and lean forward six inches to reach my monitor -- so I can't even begin to think of how this would be usable.

      Even in a laptop, it seems like it would be weird, and it seems like it would be harder to do anything with the touchscreen than the mouse would be. You're just not sitting in front of it in a way that seems to make the touch very helpful or comfortable.

      Maybe it's because I've never seen a demo of how you'd do this, but it seems it would be very uncomfortable to try to use a vertical touch screen in conjunction with a keyboard sitting on the desk.

      A lot of what I'm seeing amounts to "ZOMG, we need to make teh tuch screenz", but not a whole lot of detail on why this would be beneficial, or how the ergonomics of it would work.

      Sitting here in front of my monitor, I can't figure it out. Less so if I had dual monitors like so many places have now since we'd be talking about 4-5 square feet or so to cover with waving your hand.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Stop thinking single input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pull your monitor up to your keyboard. If you can't touch your touch screen it looses a lot of effectiveness.

    3. Re:Stop thinking single input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I need the large transparent touch screen to organize the pre-cog dreams!

    4. Re:Stop thinking single input by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you wouldn't be waving your hand. You'd be doing things and every once in a while you'd roll your eyes and tap the screen because mom's Skype window popped up in the corner asking about your day, or there's an error message you just want to banish so you lash out at it and that actually works. Also, pinch zoom is basically the best zoom gesture ever devised, naturally giving you precision of both centre-point and ratio -- irrelevant to some, critical to others.

      I have a webcam but usually it's off and doesn't do anything. I have a joystick that I haven't used in at least a year. My TV has controls built into the box that I don't even remember exist on the rare occasion when the batteries are dead on the remote and I'm trying to turn it off -- the controls on that touchscreen are far less ergonomic than a touchscreen. My iPhone has Siri which is nearly useless almost all the time (especially since the Apple maps debacle made "bus route home" a useless command), can still give me a quick search in the rain. Just because an input method exists, doesn't mean it has to be primary for your every use.

      I've had a touchscreen on my desktop for about a year and a half now, for work. Taking out the times I use it specifically for work and just considering the rest of my use, I wouldn't say I use it every day. I do think I use it most days, for the things I mentioned -- pinch zoom a high-res image, pinch zoom an annoying animated ad out of view while reading something else, make an obnoxious error message go away, open an application while my mouse-hand is holding something else. Certainly far more use than Siri.

      And I have DEFINITELY touched non-touchscreen monitors expecting something to happen before realizing, oh, duuhhh, can't do that on this monitor. I think the day may come when people will be surprised that non-touchscreen monitors ever existed, even if they are still largely using a mouse and keyboard.

  56. Re:Windows? by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative

    Face it: Microsoft was a real innovator in the early 90s.

    Uh, what exactly did Microsoft innovate? As far as I can tell, people who think Microsoft innovated in the 90s only think so because Microsoft's products are the first place they saw some things, not because Microsoft was the first, or even the best, to do them.

    They did have sharp business practices. I will give you that.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  57. Re:Windows? by filthpickle · · Score: 1

    I guess it depends what field you are in...or maybe just where you happen to work. The Sysadmins here are all complete 100% windows guys. They couldn't get a job in any other environment. Some of the employees are windows only at work people...but the infrastructure guys are all windows only. It has been this way at the last couple places I have worked. I haven't changed companies in a while, however.

  58. Totally for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A few less ways for clueless users to get malware and contribute to stinking up the Internet.

  59. The Wii was a massive success by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    I just can't figure out how having my desktop machine have a keyboard and a touchscreen would work from an ergonomics perspective.

    I'm sorry I suspect your talking to the wrong person, I would never suggest touch for the sake of it. I find the Dual environment of tablet/Desktop in Windows 8 messy, with Microsoft trying to make traditional desktop Applications touch, programs where a mouse and keyboard are simply better choices like say Gimp/LibreOffice.

    I would love an environment where keyboard and mouse are prefered say Gimp/LibreOffice in as desktop environment it would stay in desktop [keyboard and mouse] and only Applications specifically designed *and* preferable to being touch would be touch enabled. like manipulating share graphs/maps [with fat fingers]....in a mixed *windows* environment. The simple method of getting this working would be windowed Android Apps [I'd run them on Ubuntu rather than ChromeOS]

    To me the *preferable method* of input decides which is used not whether you are comfortable or not.

  60. Chrome OS is no threat to Windows.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There will be no massive waves of people migrating from laptops to Chromebooks because of one simple fact:

    People are used to the Start menu, and they won't find it in Chrome OS.

    Wait a minute.....

  61. MS will lash Office to Win 8 by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Naturally if anyone creeps up on their market share they'll lash Office tighter to Win 8. In corporate environments they do that by default through AD and Sharepoint.

  62. Better question by El+Rey · · Score: 1

    What will the expanding world of ChromeOS mean for privacy?

  63. HP doesn't get it - as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The idea of a chromebook is to be small, light, inexpensive, fast booting, and long battery life.

    Samsung gets it with $249 chromebook. HP doesn't get it.

  64. I have a Chomebook.. by aklinux · · Score: 1

    and it works in my world. Maybe it doesn't in yours...

    I don't have it set up yet, but I noticed someone said these can't be dual booted. Yet I find sites where people state they have these things dual booting w/ Ubuntu & Fedora. I plan on trying this shortly.

    If all the ISPs go in strike, I'm shut down anyway... My cellphone is AT&T which I hear is essentially a voip system, or rapidly being converted to one, any more. My office is all voip telephones. I do real estate and that entire system is net based anymore. Even if I still had a land-line at home, I don't, if the local ISPs go on strike, they are also our local phone companies. I suspect that if one side goes down, so does the other.

  65. Crippled ware by aNonnyMouseCowered · · Score: 1

    The chief academic attraction of Chromebooks is precisely their crippled nature. As true "netbooks", the ordinary users can do less harm with them than with laptops running a full OS. Would-be computer geeks can of course repurpose them. But I suspect that these classroom versions, classChromebooks, will include a "security" feature that will prevent casual modification.

    1. Re:Crippled ware by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      True. Plus, they integrate with our existing Google domain, which means that when students log in, they we can apply policies depending on their grade level. Anything from turning off the webcam to disabling web browsing. And it's all built in to the management console we already use to manage their e-mail and other Google services.

  66. Re:Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What sharp business practices? They have systematically alienated every single sector of their customers by ignoring them and overcharging them for the last 10 years. They appear to be screwing their products one-by-one and making alternatives look better and better every single day.

    When they tell system admins that they have removed a heap of useful functions from Windows Server 2008 to 'decrease cognitive loading' in the GUI it gives an insight into a company that has completely lost the plot. They are supposed to make OSes - systems for operating computers. They have forgotten that.

  67. Threat? No. by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    I don't think Chrome OS is any more a threat to Windows than Windows is to itself. The Windows business model may not work anymore, but it has worked so long that Microsoft could (and probably will) glide along on inertia for a very long time. So are Netbooks going to destroy Windows, no they didn't. Is Android? Nope. Chromebooks? Nope. Tablets? No again. Will Microsoft realize too late that the rest of the industry has switched to a different business model, (which, incidentally, is the real issue, of which all the other technologies above are only symptoms) and make increasingly desperate attempts to win back the market, both trying unsuccessfully to play in these new markets and with decreasing success to force the market back into their comfortable space? One could say that's already happening. But it will continue to happen for a very long time, and a lot more chairs will fly, before the company is to the point where people would say yes, right now, they're threatened. Potential threat, meta threat, maybe, but not real threat.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  68. A better reaction would have been ReactOS by unixisc · · Score: 1

    But the whole point about Metro, GNOME 3.x and Unity was that having the same interface for laptops and tablets is a bad idea. The people who got it right so far have been Apple, w/ iOS & OS-X being different, the KDE folks, who made Plasma Active for tablets, and the normal KDE for laptops. Now, Google is doing the sensible thing - leaving Android alone for tablets, while using ChromeOS for desktops.

    Good thing about Google driving this is that there is some viability here, instead of the usual distro wars that one sees. Only thing - I think they ought to take ReactOS, make it as close to Windows 7 as possible, and run w/ it - covering all the win64 apps. Include in that Windows VirtualPC (XP-Mode) and the win32 apps and run w/ that. The advantage of that approach is that no one would have to toss their current PC apps - be it their games, work applications or whatever - or run it under Crossover. Just let it run normally under a Google Windows, and let the current ecosystem - like Symantec, Kaspersky, et al help maintain their security updates, instead of the OS itself.

  69. Microsoft services for Windows? by unixisc · · Score: 1

    The thing is that Microsoft already has an Enterprise software called Dynamics, which it tries to pitch against Oracle, SAP and others. Now, if they got into services, they'd again get into the same trouble they got into w/ the DoJ for simply bundling Internet Explorer w/ Windows. IE was small potatoes - now, if they get into services, they'd instantly be accused of leveraging their Windows monopoly for this.

    I do think that at this stage, Microsoft should declare Windows as complete, and that from now on, they'd only be doing maintenance fixes. If they did something like Symantec and just issued patches for an annual fee of, say, $49.99, they could easily get huge business. In fact, if they throw in support for pirated versions in exchange for such a fee, their gravy train will grow even more. Honestly, most of their apps are mature enough, and any improvements can be released as patches, again for a fee.

    As it is, they've seen what it is being in the crosshairs of the DoJ, so becoming even bigger should not be their goal. Maybe, they could start paying dividends on their stock to justify low growth in stock value. Leave the mobile wars to Google & Apple, and just focus on what's already theirs.

    Before they lose it completely!

    1. Re:Microsoft services for Windows? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I don't see how the DoJ could say squat when all MSFT would have to do is point to how Apple and Google both sell services to their respective OSes and Apple pretty much has a monopoly on the PMP and have a good sized chunk of the mobile market. Remember that to be labeled a monopoly you do NOT have to have 100%, or even close to 100%, you merely have to "be able to leverage your existing market to influence other markets" and we have perfect examples of that with Apple affecting the price of eBooks with iTunes.

      But I agree that they can not longer count on users replacing all their gear every 3 years, the MHz bubble has burst and now X86 is so powerful and has so many cores, even on the low end, that even the bottom of the line systems being sold today are insanely overpowered compared to what users actually do. During the MHz war we saw that users really had no choice, software was released to take advantage of those faster clocks (because making software to take advantage of single core performance is trivial, taking advantage of multiple threads and cores is anything but) so that the 3 year old PC they had simply couldn't run the latest and greatest without a serious struggle. Now the only real gains made by both AMD and Intel are in the realm of power management, because with so many cores cranking the clocks just wastes too much heat, so that 6 year old Phenom X3 has no problem running the latest software. even we gamers just don't upgrade like we used to because the games just can't keep up anymore. from 93-06 I built myself a new PC just about every year, after 06? I've built exactly 2, and the second was really just an excuse so I could give my youngest my Deneb quad and get a Thuban 6 core for myself, its not that I NEDED 2 more cores, I just wanted it. Now I don't even feel a need to go higher even though my board supports 8 cores, what do I need more power for anyway?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  70. SpyBook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Chromebooks won't be a hit when people find out that Google is harvesting all their personal data and violating their privacy in the worst way imaginable.

    Idiots need only apply for a SpyBook.