German Science Minister Stripped of Her PhD

An anonymous reader writes "In a move likely to have major political implications, the University of Düsseldorf has revoked the doctoral degree of Germany's science and education minister, Annette Schavan. The committee investigating allegations of plagiarism came to the conclusion that she 'systematically and deliberately claimed as her own intellectual achievements which she had in fact not produced herself.' Schavan wants to appeal the decision in court and has not resigned from her post so far."

Comments

PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

Having a PhD in germany is a status symbol more than anything. I expect this type of thing to happen more often since plagiarism is the easiest way to achieve this status symbol.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[grumpy_technologist]

That's a sweeping and unfair generalization.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

As opposed to PhDs in other places, like, America!

Re:PhD's in Germany

[vlm]

Google search for "That's a sweeping and unfair generalization." shows 14 results... Looks like you've got some explaining to do, Mr "I don't use footnotes", or you're about to be stripped of your second post achievement.

Now I'm doing it right, put my post in quotes and google for it and "did not match any documents" is the result.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

You are missing the crux of the issue: this completely debunks AGW.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

I get a hit on this other website. You have obviously copied vlm's comment word for word, not even bothering to change the username on your post.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[wonkey_monkey]

People will soon find a way to avoid their sentences returning any search results purple monkey dishwasher.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[osu-neko]

If that's all it was, this wouldn't have major political implications, nor would there be questions about her resigning her post. If something gets you your current job, it's a lot more than a status symbol...

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

The damn it is!!!!!

Plagarism carries different social stigma's in Germany. It's widespread. It's well know that it's widespread.

Inform yourself.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, it's the same across the Western world, I'm afraid.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, right along with cutting in line.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

She failed Germanies acid test - PH DENIED!

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

A PhD is a status symbol more than anything else? I agree that there is a status symbol aspect to the thing, but if that's all it were good for all PhDs would be whipping out the title all the damn time. Instead the honorific title of Dr. is typically used in limited formal situations, like the initial correspondence with another researcher in the same general field of study or official correspondence, or I suppose a low ranking employee talking to say the vice president of research or something . Otherwise it's pretty informal and usually first-name basis and has been that way for decades.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[WoOS]

Well, I don't know whether a potential resignation of a (education & research) minister counts a "major political implications" in the first place.

The potential break-up of the CSU-FDP coalition in Bavaria over the (non)-abandoning of university tuition fees, that is something which could have major political consequences.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[redwagonfive]

I take this is a comment from someone without a doctorate from the US. I know nothing about other nations' practices, but in the US you would have been tossed out for plagiarism. Legacy kids are getting bounced from Harvard undergrad for cheating. Yes, professors can be oblivious and there are high profile cases. In the sciences your dissertation also requires publications in the process. This would require that no one notice plagiarism in peer review.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Swiper]

Not in Germany, Whilst I have colleagues who don't care about being addressed as "Dr", most insist on having their title mentioned at every possible opportunity. Having done my doctorate in the UK, I can assure you that it's an entirely different perception and social climate. The difference does tend to be based on the type of doctorate, the DPhil in Germany is the one you can get by just spouting your mind instead of doing any actual research, and they are the ones who tend to insist on the title.

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a close observer of Germany :) (dutch, currently living in Switzerland) I have to confirm that PhD is viewed in Germany (and Austria) more than elsewhere as a status symbol.

Of course there are the true scientists like everywhere else. But there are not many societies where "Herr Doktor" etc. is so "important" for many. We always used to joke about it (in holland).

Re:PhD's in Germany

[bitfarmer]

Hey! The "purple monkey dishwasher" is MY thing!

Re:PhD's in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

I've worked with a lot of people for years before I knew they held doctorates. Dave held two! However, there were two I worked with who were dumb as boxes of rocks -- those were the only two who insisted on being called "Doctor name" and signed things with "name, PhD."

I always wondered how those two idiots ever got out of their freshman year of college, let alone obtained a doctorate. I always suspected they either cheated, or had someone in the university without many ethics who got them through it. The rest? Some of the smartest people I've met (especialy Dave, he was sharp as a razor).

someone had to say it

[Anonymous Coward]

"Annette Schavan stripped"

do NOT want!

Re:someone had to say it

[Moses48]

I read this "for her PhD" instead of "of her PhD". I was really confused how that works.

Re:someone had to say it

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe she was awarded a PHD instead of a PhD?

Re:someone had to say it

[techno-vampire]

My first thought was that PhD was an abbreviation for something naughty and/or sexy in German. I must say, I was disappointed to learn that it isn't.

Re:someone had to say it

[KingAlanI]

well, that would be one way to raise money for university.

Re:someone had to say it

[antek9]

Oh my, that depends entirely on context. Dunno if it will make you happy, but do a search on 'Doktorspiele'.

Re:someone had to say it

[redwagonfive]

Someone had to say it because it is a female politician so we have to make it about sex. Oh I hope you are less of a twit when you are no longer a virgin.

Re:someone had to say it

[Anonymous Coward]

the TSA has yet to weigh in on the issue.. if she ever visits the USA, she may very well find herself on some convoluted watch / strip / feel-me-up-scotty search list due to her academic fraud.

Oh, the irony!!

[MightyMait]

"A university committee yesterday evening confirmed accusations, first aired last May, of plagiarism in Schavan’s ethical-philosophical dissertation entitled ‘People and conscience — studies on the conditions, necessity and requirements for formation of conscience today’."

Naturally!!

Re:Oh, the irony!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the irony gets even better.: A year ago she publicly humiliated another politician because of his shoddy "copy & paste" PhD. http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-press-review-of-the-annette-schavan-plagiarism-scandal-a-881783.html

Re:Oh, the irony!!

[Anonymous Coward]

"A university committee yesterday evening confirmed accusations, first aired last May, of plagiarism in Schavan’s ethical-philosophical dissertation entitled ‘People and conscience — studies on the conditions, necessity and requirements for formation of conscience today’."

Naturally!!

To her credit, she followed the ethical principles outlined in the disseration, to the letter.

Re:Oh, the irony!!

[Trailer Trash]

Yeah, she was ragging on his copy/paste skills, not the fact that he copied and pasted his PhD. Let's face it, she's apparently an expert in copy/paste PhD work.

Re:Oh, the irony!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Was it a paper on psychological projection?

Re:Oh, the irony!!

[jonadab]

I guess she did OK with the copy/paste part, but she appears to have omitted too many citations. Maybe her doctoral supervisor should have gone through the thing and helpfully added {citation_needed} to the end of every sentence and passed it back to her.

She was stripped?

[tekrat]

Pics or it didn't happen... Ohh la la.
Come on, I can't be the first one to think of this joke....

Re:She was stripped?

[Frosty Piss]

Pics or it didn't happen... Ohh la la.

Seriously? Have you seen the woman?

Into "Granny Porn", are you?

Re:She was stripped?

[RatherBeAnonymous]

But you have to admit, they really know what they're doing.

Re:She was stripped?

[tekrat]

Just found out what she looks like..... Never mind. Can we strip the German Chick from Top Gear instead? Sabine Schmitt?

Re:She was stripped?

[bickerdyke]

You're definitly not german. That happend often enough (3 times during the last 2 years IIRC) to politicans that a PhD is the first thing I think of that can be stripped....

Sad, I know.

Re:She was stripped?

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Can we strip the German Chick from Top Gear instead? Sabine Schmitt?

Yes please. Sabine Schmitz. My moter always warned me about fast women.

Re:She was stripped?

[macraig]

Would you even think to make that joke if Schavan was a man? Food for thought.

Re:She was stripped?

[Anonymous Coward]

put your dick back in your pants. this is the internet, not the locker room at school.

Re:She was stripped?

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you even think to make that joke if Schavan was a man? Food for thought.

Have you got something against gays? Food for thought.

Re:She was stripped?

[macraig]

It's the same food I just baked up! I'm glad you liked it enough to jot down the recipe and hack it.

Re:She was stripped?

[DerPflanz]

My moter always warned me about fast women.

Nice, in-context typo.

Re:She was stripped?

[serviscope_minor]

Interesting comment.

It's certainly a guy thing. Is it sexist?

Well, I know a guy, a computer scientist. Since he's gay, in an entertaining turnaround from the usual, he comments on other male computer scientists hotness, but completely ignores such things for female ones.

Re:She was stripped?

[tehcyder]

Since he's gay, in an entertaining turnaround from the usual, he comments on other male computer scientists hotness

That would be like one of those joke "The World's Shortest Books..." lists, presumably.

Re:She was stripped?

[macraig]

Are you sure he's not abusing the stereotype to make the same point that I was? If his analytical skills aren't restricted to his work, I'd bet that he is.

Re:She was stripped?

[Walter Carver]

Me.

She'll have to wait

[Ukab the Great]

Until she can copy off someone else's letter of appeal.

Re:She'll have to wait

[icebike]

Until she can copy off someone else's letter of appeal.

No problem, shes studying for her law degree right now.
Started yesterday, should be done tomorrow.

Re:She'll have to wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Or until she can blame it on the patriarchy and get all the sisters running to her defense.

Re:She'll have to wait

[JamesSinton]

The courts prefer plagiarism as precedence.

Re:She'll have to wait

[Sique]

She's a member of a christian-conservative party, so no, she wouldn't blame it on patriarchy and ask the sisters for help.
Nice insight in your ideas about women's rights tough.

Re:She'll have to wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? She a member of the Christian Coalition, so she can't believe in the mythical beast known as "the patriarchy"?

Basically.. she's a woman. When she fucks up, she blames a man. It's what they do - even the Christian ones.

Nice insight into your pussy whipped nature though.

Re: Have you seen the woman?

[DougOtto]

Not in the biblical sense.

Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gotta love a good smear campaign.Whether she's doing a good job has relatively little to do with any titles she might now not hold any more.

Independently of the smear campaign, I might not be convinced she's doing a very good job.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[h4rr4r]

It is now a smear campaign to point out someone is a cheater and a liar?

She has had many years to admit this. She chose not to.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[Chris Mattern]

When the University officially strips you of your degree, it's moved from "smear campaign" to "substantiated charges".

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just today made aware of the fact that the way the University ndled this case is dubious and has drawn criticism from other leading scientists .because of missing rigour. I will have to look into this some more, but I expect that this decision will land in court and might be overturned.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[lgw]

So you assume she's guilty on the basis that she was accused? Sounds like an effective smear campaign!

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[Anonymous Coward]

What accused? She's already been found guilty. The summary alone specifically says her PhD has been revoked.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I assume she was guilty on the basis that the university revoked her PhD. They don't do that shit for fun.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[Anonymous Coward]

no.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[moronoxyd]

Whether she's doing a good job has relatively little to do with any titles she might now not hold any more.

Generally speaking, you're right.

But there are a few more details to take into account:
- She is the secretary of education. If she does/did not conform to the standards, how can one expect the current students and faculty to do so?
- She criticized a former colleague when he lost his PhD under similar circumstances.
- Like him she would not lose the job as a secretary for loosing the PhD, but due to lying during the whole affair instead of admitting guilt.

All of this, obviously, only if the appeals court comes to the conclusion that she was rightfully stripped of her PhD. Which is very likely, as so far German courts always (?) upheld such decisions from Universities.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[moronoxyd]

Yes, people from her party claimed that the University didn't handle the case properly.
Just as people from opposing parties said the opposite.

This is just the usual politics.

The decision to strip her of her title was made by a commission with 15 or 16 members, with 2 opposing and 1 abstention.

So far, the German courts always upheld such decisions from Universities.

Mrs. Schavan has the right to appeal the decision. Doesn't mean she will get the result she's looking for.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[Tom]

Whether she's doing a good job has relatively little to do with any titles she might now not hold any more.

Oh yes, it does. She's the minister for education and science.

I could accept someone in that position who doesn't have an academic title. It would be a bit odd, but hey, we've had defense ministers who didn't go to the army (back when military service was still compulsory).

But one who had acquired an undeserved academic title through intentional deceit? Sorry, that's a slap in the face for everyone who worked hard on their titles, and such a person can not be the one in charge of the educational system and academia.

Re:Smear campaign or missing job qualification?

[grumbel]

It is now a smear campaign to point out someone is a cheater and a liar?

She got her doctor title 30 years ago, not last week. You might not call it a smear campaign, as it is based on truth, but I find it always rather iffy when something that somebody has done 30 years ago counts more then all that which he has done since then. It's not like it was noticed that she cheated because of incompetence at the job, but just because it's currently a trend to dig through old doctor thesis of politicians in Germany.

Did she copy Lobachevsky?

[eddy_crim]

No one wil ever say it better!
The great Tom Lehrer

Re:Did she copy Lobachevsky?

[slew]

Maybe...

She went to university in Bonn
Whose sister city is ....Minsk!

(of course Tom Leher copied from Danny Kaye's Stanislavsky sketch from the Jack Benny show, but he gave him credit)

Should have done better

[Anonymous Coward]

Romania's prime minister, Victor Ponta, was also accused of blatant plagiarism and it was all over the TV. His paper was nothing more than copy-pastes. So what happened? Well, there was this committee that was investigating these things and they were supposed to give their opinion on whether it was plagiarism or it wasn't. Two hours - TWO HOURS - before they were to give their response, the committee was officially dismantled. That didn't stop them from saying that it was plagiarism of the worst kind, but their response had no legal value. Welcome to Romania.

What a coincidence and what good luck the prime minister had... /s

Re:Should have done better

[ryzvonusef]

HA! I can top that!

In Pakistan, there is this organisation called "Higher Education Commission", which administers our universities; our court asks them to assess the degrees of our, ahem, *elected* politicians, because there was accusation of them being fake. Guess what happens, the politicians try various tactics, and in the end, decided to end the damn commission itself!

The bloody commission that governs our entire higher-educational system!

To speak in American terms, it's like eliminating the entire DMV-system to get out of ticket.

"has not resigned from her post so far."

[znrt]

why whould she? a phd is of no use for a science minister, but the skill of fabricating merits is very much. all good, keep moving.

Re:"has not resigned from her post so far."

[Meeni]

Society doesn't value lying, cheating and deceptive practices for political carriers. At least not openly. Be careful of what you want. It's not because it's all commonplace behind the scene, that you want it to become the new normal, as it will just make it another grade worse.

Re:"has not resigned from her post so far."

[Anonymous Coward]

Society doesn't value lying, cheating and deceptive practices for political carriers

AHAHAHA thanks you've brightened my day.

Re:"has not resigned from her post so far."

[vlm]

It was a meta joke where OP was lying about the public not liking being lied to, to make the humorous point that the public likes it.
I LOLed at both the post and your response that missed the point, but it would have been much funnier if OP merely cut and pasted some historian or philosopher writing about the same subject, seeing as that was the whole point of the story.
Something like "It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles." other than Machiavelli probably could never have predicted he'd be quoted WRT a chick (formerly) with a PHD.

Churchills "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." would be a hilarious companion to the verbiage about "stripping" this woman.

Now back to work, all of us, as Stevenson said "On the plains of hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who at the dawn of victory lay down to rest, and in resting died. "

Re:"has not resigned from her post so far."

[Bigby]

Well, at least she doesn't have a PhD anymore, so better take the jobs you can get. If that means keeping the current one, then all the better.

She wouldn't be the first

[excelsior_gr]

Defense Minister Guttenberg resigned from his post for the exact same reason a while back. Getting a PhD in Germany is a hardship and I can well imagine that some people would like to "cut some corners" to reach their goal.

Re:She wouldn't be the first

[WoOS]

Mr. Guttenberg resigned because his whole Ph.D. - done outside the university while he was already a politician - was a lousy Copy&Paste job including copying papers done by the research arm of the parliament for him. Especially also in places where he claimed original thought.

Mrs. Schavan did the Ph.D. at the university before she started her career and seemingly ca. 15 years before she went into heavy politics. As far as I understand her Ph.D. was revoked because of incorrect citations (i.e. she named sources but not marked text as direct citation) in her literature section.

The only commonality is that both lost their Ph.D..

Re:She wouldn't be the first

[Anonymous Coward]

Defense Minister Guttenberg resigned from his post for the exact same reason a while back. Getting a PhD in Germany is a hardship and I can well imagine that some people would like to "cut some corners" to reach their goal.

It might be hard, but they could have taken the legal short cut that most hacks use: Getting their Ph.D. in America. As long as you avoid ivy league schools, American Ph.D's are practically pulled from a vending machine relative to European ones.

Re:She wouldn't be the first

[Anonymous Coward]

Read. The. Fucking. Article.

She copied and pasted entire chunks... not just incorrect citations.

Re:She wouldn't be the first

[Swiper]

Yep, Gutenberg based his political career on his doctorate, that was the sole reason for his Ph.D. Schavan on the other hand is already an established politician, and, whislt the entire circumstances surrounding her doctorate are a bit...strange (no previous degree), it was not the basis of her career.

Re:She wouldn't be the first

[tehcyder]

Getting a PhD in Germany is a hardship

Getting a PhD anywhere should be a hardship. If you could just get one by sending off a coupon on the back of a cornflakes packet it wouldn't mean a lot.

Re:She wouldn't be the first

[Tom]

No, if you actually follow the university announcement and the evidence, it turns out that her actions are considerably worse than Guttenbergs.

He was lousy even in his plagiarism. She intentionally rephrased and covered up where the copied from. Guttenberg did a copy&paste job - Schavan copied and then rephrased so if you would put the phrase into a search engine, it would come up empty. But she only changed words, she didn't add any original thoughts.

That's plagiarism at its worst - intentional and deceitful.

Re:She wouldn't be the first

[excelsior_gr]

I totally agree.

However, in Germany, PhD students are more often than not in the total mercy of arrogant professors with even sadistic tendencies and nobody to control them. Compared to doing research in a british, dutch or american university (based on people I know), being a PhD student in Germany is a very lousy deal. The doctorates get relatively good money with full benefits, but that doesn't really sweeten the pill.

Meanwhile in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

current Committee on Science, Space and Technology member Paul Broun...

" embryology, evolution, and the Big Bang are "lies straight from the Pit of Hell ... lies to try to keep me and all the folks who are taught that from understanding that they need a savior."

former Committee on Science, Space and Technology member Todd Akin...

"If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. "
on Evolution - "I don’t see it as even as a matter of science, because I don’t know if you can prove one or the other."

-------
I'd love to see that kind of zeal put on the backgrounds of US politicians.

Re:Meanwhile in the US

[StatureOfLiberty]

Amen,

If people want to get all religious about things, one of the worst sins has to be willful ignorance.

Re:Meanwhile in the US

[Graydyn Young]

Here in Canada, our Minister of State for Science & Technology is a former chiropractor who doesn't believe in evolution...

Bribes-for-PhD's scams reported in Germany.

[Andy Prough]

There are some very interesting articles on the "bribes-for-PhD" scam in Germany: In 2008 Time Magazine reported on an investigation into around 100 cases of bribes for PhDs: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919339,00.html. One blogger claims 500 to 700 PhD's are illegitimately "purchased" each year by aggressive career-climbing German lawyers, managers and politicians. The blogger provides numerous citations: http://ktwop.wordpress.com/tag/guttenberg-fraud/. In 2011, the DW German news outlet called some German PhD's "cut and paste": http://www.dw.de/academic-consultants-target-phd-wannabes/a-14852460-1.

Re: Bribes-for-PhD's scams reported in Germany.

[Anonymous Coward]

Had to reread that- I thought at first it was "Brides for PhDs" and wondered how such smart people couldn't get laid... Must be math professors?

Re:Bribes-for-PhD's scams reported in Germany.

[Anonymous Coward]

...and NOVA continues to be correct in assumptions that most scientist, are not.

Re:Bribes-for-PhD's scams reported in Germany.

[Anonymous Coward]

We do it all the time in the US. Degrees issued by Johny come lately colleges, particularly education over the net types of schools are almost always nonsense. Another method often used is to use a entirely different certification system such that a school appears to be accredited but is not. Drilling down even deeper we can find universities that are legitimate and accredited but not every department within the university happens to be accredited. That is really sick as some students complete their training before finding that employers will never touch them.
                              The first solution is to allow only one, government controlled accreditation source. Then the next step is to make certain that no one can accept money for training if the school and department are not accredited.
                                Right now we have numerous teachers who get advanced degrees in order to boost their salaries who have degrees that are totally fraudulent. You know that Ph.d from Harvard just might be from the three week course at "HARVARD of Costa Rica". But that degree looks great on the wall and the Costa Rica part doesn't show at all.

Re:Bribes-for-PhD's scams reported in Germany.

[Andy Prough]

Not the same as the degree mill scams in the US that you refer to. Apparently, from reading the literature, these are real PhD degrees from real institutions in Germany that are obtained through bribery. Probably very expensive bribery.

But was her PhD in a science-related field?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure that studying the development of a conscience is necessarily science (beyond the fact that science is contained in the word itself).

Makes me think of an old Tom Lehrer song...

[RevSpaminator]

'Plagiarize, Let no one else's work evade your eyes, Remember why the good Lord made your eyes, So don't shade your eyes, But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure always to call it please "research".'

Obligatory Merkel Titanic image

[12WTF$]

Plagiatsvorwürfe gegen Merkel!

http://www.titanic-magazin.de/typo3temp/pics/b08249c126.jpg

too smart

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe she had written a book of college papers and someone else posted one of them as his

"Dr" Martin Luther King

[Anonymous Coward]

Big time plagiarist.

should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[bzipitidoo]

How does a university not know a dissertation is full of plagiarism? Only by wearing blinders!

Dissertations are supposed to be carefully checked by at least 3 professors. Her major professor and committee was at best rubber stamping her work without bothering to check anything. Or they were so incompetent or lazy that none were aware of whole areas of work in their field? How else to explain a failure to recognize plagiarism? And how could they not notice that a student's ability and knowledge had wide gaps? Shop talk should have exposed her as a fraud long before she got anywhere near graduation. Also, she may have a history of cheating, unless she earned a B.S. and M.S. honestly, and only resorted to cheating for the PhD? I suppose that could happen-- someone who had an easy time in school and never experienced failure might be tempted when facing it for the first time.

So how could this happen? They were deliberately overlooking serious problems because it suited them in some way. If it wasn't outright bribes and implied threats, as in, her family was a large donor who might not wish to donate any more if she didn't receive the degree, it could be that the department or school was too eager to boost their numbers.

This kind of crap is a black mark for everyone who legitimately earned a PhD.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[rtb61]

Get real. Computers make detection of plagiarism so much easier and combined with the internet and digitisation of so many literary works pretty much guaranteed. Of course it makes creating truly original equally difficult and the likelihood of similar works which were not glimpsed let alone researched much more likely but of course if you want to earn your doctorate you should be forced to add something new and original to the field, really that is the whole point.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[WoOS]

How does a university not know a dissertation is full of plagiarism? [...] So how could this happen?

A) The Ph.D. thesis in question was submitted 1980. Long before computer checks and internet groups gathering to check Ph.D.s.
B) It was not "full of plagiarism". You might want to fetch (non-marked) copy from the net and find the sentences in question before you accuse others of intent.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[bzipitidoo]

I don't read German, so unless there's an English translation, I'll have to pass on reading a copy. Are you speaking from knowledge or have you not read it either?

I'm not doing the accusing. Schavan herself admitted "careless mistakes". She's not denying that the dissertation has problems! She's only trying to wiggle out of characterizing those "mistakes" as plagiarism. Most damning is that the university agreed that what she did is indeed plagiarism. Revoking a degree, and not just any degree but the PhD of an important official, is such an unusual and damaging move-- no university wants to admit they messed up and take a reputation hit-- that I'm satisfied they wouldn't do it unless they were certain. Likely the only question they were really debating when voting on the matter is whether it would be less trouble to just ignore the whole thing and let her keep her undeserved degree. But it's not just her-- academia has to constantly watch for and take action against cheating, or they lose their reputation. Undoubtedly some didn't want to do anything, but they felt they had to act on this matter. Since it was done in 1980 as you pointed out, it's likely her entire committee is retired or dead, so the university will not have to confront them which makes it easier to act. There's not as much to do.

One of the scarier things about working on a dissertation is being warned to keep it quiet until the degree has been granted, because if you don't, it's virtually certain it will be stolen. They may patent it, or they may use it as their own dissertation and either get a degree from a diploma mill, or more likely use it to fool a real university. Yes, cheating is that rife. Her lawsuit sounds more like a desperation move to drag things out or bully or tire the opposition into giving up, rather than a serious attempt to exonerate herself by raising good points. Lance Armstrong is only coming clean because he has no plausible denials left. Texas A&M didn't screw up or lie about George Deutsch having a degree in journalism, he took it upon himself to do that. Hwang Woo-suk got away with misconduct for a while because he was a trusted insider.

If her dissertation isn't "full of" plagiarism, the most important part, the new findings, was not her own work. If that wasn't so, it would be easy to fix. Just add a few more citations. Instead, it was plagiarized, and the plagiarism irreparably compromises the integrity of the work. She is a plagiarist.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[dunkelfalke]

She has got neither B.S. nor M.S, going straight for the PhD after her high school diploma.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[moronoxyd]

Her lawsuit sounds more like a desperation move to drag things out or bully or tire the opposition into giving up, rather than a serious attempt to exonerate herself by raising good points.

That won't happen.

This year we have federal elections here in Germany and the opposition will not let this chance to weaken the ruling coalition go to waste.
Especially since their own candidate for the position of chancellor it doing his best to sink his own candidacy.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[tehcyder]

She has got neither B.S. nor M.S, going straight for the PhD after her high school diploma.

Is that normal in Germany? I'm pretty sure you couldn't do that here in the UK even if you were some sort of genius.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not normal, and it is practically impossible now. However, it was allowed in some subjects a long time ago, when she got her PhD.

Re:should censure U of Dusseldorf too

[WoOS]

You can have a look on the possible plagiats on http://schavanplag.wordpress.com/ (google translation might be necessary for non German speakers). Note that this is basically the 'prosecutors' position (except that in this case the prosecutor is a community of people on the net) not the findings of the university.
How many of them would you have found without computer help?

And I don't believe that "important officials" are less likely to have their degree revoked in Germany. I think it is actually more likely for them. If she wasn't a politician, nobody would have spent all the work necessary to come up with the above list. If she wasn't, the university wouldn't have to make absolutely sure that nobody suspected them of granting her a favor. If she wasn't, the internal analysis of the university prosecutor wouldn't have been leaked making this a year long affair.

A. seems pretty inapplicable 4 a Science Minister

[gatesstillborg]

and B. the profound irony re. matters of ethics/"conscience"!

Schavan’s ethical-philosophical dissertation entitled ‘People and conscience — studies on the conditions, necessity and requirements for formation of conscience today’.

You mean a politician is a cheater and liar?

[ark1]

Looks to me like she is now better than ever qualified for the job.

Re:You mean a politician is a cheater and liar?

[leon.rj.brooks]

Perhaps she wishes to switch to a religious career?

As an Atheist or Mithraist (Roman) she would probably do fine... she probably hasn't accumulated enough chutzpah to make a passable imam khatib?

CEASE AND DESIST

[Anonymous Coward]

I have trademarked Purple Monkey DIshwasher (TM)

mean ol dusseldorf

[Anonymous Coward]

gryffendor and slytherin must be worried

Oh and I have a PhD

[Anonymous Coward]

"so what do you do?"
"I write erotic novels....for children"
"oh god!"
"I know, they're WILDLY unpopular"
"I also have a PhD"
"oh you do?"
"Yep, a pretty huge dick!"

Uh Oh !

[Anonymous Coward]

The Bismarck has taken a round at mid-ships exploding the weapons magazines.

Listing to Port her deck is awash.

No saving her nor German Science.

Some punk grabbed her camera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad, hope it didn't cost her more than a couple hundred bucks. Although it's been awhile since I've heard them called PhD's.

but women do not cheat !

[Anonymous Coward]

but women do not cheat ! they are all ethical !

this is misogynists stymieing good women on top !

Re:but women do not cheat !

[Anonymous Coward]

but women do not cheat ! they are all ethical !

this is misogynists stymieing good women on top !

But she's a German first and a woman second

Intentional Irony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Post about plagiarism by "anonymous" starts with an attributed, word-for-word copy of the lead sentence in the Nature story?

Non-news for Germans

[maweki]

Since this is now the 7th member of the ruling coalition that has been stripped of his or her title (beginning with defence minister Von Guttenberg), something like that seems like non-news to Germans like me.

Re:Non-news for Germans

[Erikderzweite]

Still, it is a new low: a Science Minister lost her PhD. She has also been very vocal in criticizing von Gutenberg for doing basically the same. On top of that she has no university degree at all now which is funny for a Science Minister.

Re:Non-news for Germans

[Hentes]

This is a PhD in philosophy, it would be pretty much worthless even if it was legit. It's far harder to cheat in an actual science.

I'm sure she deserved her doctorate

[Chrisq]

I'm sure she deserved her doctorate as much as Dr Ian Paisley deserved his.

Re:I'm sure she deserved her doctorate

[tehcyder]

From a googled BBC article about Paisley:

"His doctorate is an honorary one, bestowed by the Bob Jones University, in South Carolina but he likes to use the title."

In other news, Bob Jones University is some sort of racist Xian degree mill, and amusingly it's logo is a "BJ", which would probably appall the fascists in charge if they knew what it meant.

Oh my God!

[bolanskidrow]

Unfortunately this situations are increasingly. The students are losing the references and the teachers are losing the good reputation.