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Ask Slashdot: Buying a Laptop That Doesn't Have Windows 8

Posted by timothy on from the craigslist-if-available dept.

First time accepted submitter Sagan's Pie writes "I'm starting to look for a laptop for college, and the only thing I seem to find are laptops or tablets that have Windows 8. I have used Windows 7 for a long time now, and would not have a problem giving it up, but not for Windows 8. After visiting many major online retail sites, I've found that finding either a Windows 7 laptop, or even a laptop without an operating system is nearly impossible. So where should I go if looking for laptops sans os, or at the very least sans Windows 8?"

81 of 570 comments (clear)

  1. Try NewEgg by GeckoFood · · Score: 5, Informative

    NewEgg still sells Windows 7 laptops. Go into the laptops/notebooks section and enter Windows 7 as a keyword. Some of the units that come back are refurbs, but some are brand new.

    --
    Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
    1. Re:Try NewEgg by rudy_wayne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Buy a computer that has the specs you want, then wipe the hard drive and install Windows 7. Problem solved.

    2. Re:Try NewEgg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or check out this site: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop .

    3. Re:Try NewEgg by linebackn · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Buy a computer that has the specs you want, then wipe the hard drive and install Windows 7. Problem solved.

      Except it is not always that simple. Supposedly there are already some laptops out there that lack drivers for Windows 7. The number of incompatible laptops will increase as time goes on.

      There is also the problem of support. Vendors may refuse to support your hardware if it does not have the factory provided OS or software on it.

      And on top of that, you would be paying for an additional windows license.

    4. Re:Try NewEgg by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Have you tried the Apple store?

      No windows 8 there.

      :)

      However, on a more serious note...you could get a nice macbook pro....and install VMWare on it...and get a OEM copy of Win 7 (I still seem them on newegg for a decent price)...and run it in a VM.

      This combo allows you to have the best of all worlds on one computer...OSX, Windows (your fav. flavor) and Linux...etc.

      That's actually the route I went.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:Try NewEgg by gQuigs · · Score: 4, Informative

      From what I understand that will depend on the UEFI implentation of the Windows 8 machine. That may no longer work depending on the manufacturer.

      If you can't disable secure boot you won't be able to even install Windows 7, much less my preferred Ubuntu.

    6. Re:Try NewEgg by Hatta · · Score: 5, Informative

      Buy a computer that has the specs you want. Then wipe the hard drive and install Debian. Return the Windows 8 license for a refund. Problem solved.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:Try NewEgg by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The questioner didn't say where he lives. Novatech do OS-free laptops in the UK. Yodobashi and Sofmap still do Windows 7 and even a few no-OS models.

      You can also just buy a Windows 8 laptop and wipe it immediately, then claim a refund for it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Try NewEgg by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      pretty much all of them will boot win7. every one of them that wouldn't are still slashdot story worthy.

      that's of course unless the poor sob is stupid enough to buy a windows rt machine... ms is really digging a hole with their approach to this whole mess - but all in the name of pushing their appstore.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    9. Re:Try NewEgg by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Funny

      We just bought eight Toshiba Satellites with Windows 7 installed. Funny part was they didn't even ask if we wanted Windows 7. It wasn't until they were just about to ship it that my rep called and said "I forgot to ask whether you wanted Windows 8 or not." I imagine they're getting so few business customers wanting Windows 8 it slips their mind.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    10. Re:Try NewEgg by kwiqsilver · · Score: 2

      I don't know a single Mac user who uses windows on a Mac. I have Linux VMs on mine for VPN access, school work, and general tinkering, but my only windows installation is my gaming PC.

    11. Re:Try NewEgg by DancesWithRobots · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or check out this site: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop .

      Uh. . .I'd be careful with this. I've been using Ubuntu exclusively for years and have had no serious problems UNTIL I tried to log into the online portion of a course via McGraw Hill Connect. The log in screen bounced me out for no other reason than because I was using Linux. The ironic part is when I found a way in that bypassed the courses official log-in screen, the online portions ran just fine.

    12. Re:Try NewEgg by camperdave · · Score: 3, Funny

      LOL

      in my last job I asked for a Mac Pro because I wanted a *nix workstation that wasn't Linux. Because if it was Linux I'd spend half my time messing around with customising it. OSX is so amazingly uncustomisable I'd have to focus on my work. And its *nix under the hood and a great powerhouse workstation.

      That's like gluing your Lego together.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    13. Re:Try NewEgg by arth1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      you can disable UEFI in the bios

      Huh? UEFI is what new machines have instead of BIOS.
      Some older designs have UEFI with a bios emulator (like InsydeH2O), where you can turn off UEFI boot and rely on BIOS boot only. But that depends on having a BIOS or BIOS emulator in the first place, which is no longer a given.

      What you might have thought of was turning off UEFI secure boot, which is what prevents you from installing operating systems without a secure key that the UEFI manufacturer knows and allows. Which again may or may not be possible, depending on the model.

    14. Re:Try NewEgg by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Theoretically, a website shouldn't even know what OS you are using. It is more likely to be looking at which browser you are using via the user agent, and sometimes this can be a giveaway as to which OS you are using (e.g. you are probably running Linux if you are running iceweasel). This user agent field is changeable to whatever you want, it is usually there to help web servers send you stuff that is going to work in your browser. Usually websites either give you a version of their website that is customized for your browser or some generic default if they don't recognize the browser you are using. Maybe the McGraw Hill Connect website is just written sloppily and it is rejecting your user agent. Depending on your browser, there is probably a way to change it. There may even be a way to change it for just that one web site.

      There is also a possibility that you are using a browser that is blocking popups by default. Some websites assume you are using IE and therefore likely have popups enabled. This is kind of dumb, because I am not even sure IE allows them anymore.

    15. Re:Try NewEgg by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

      All Win8 machines that have the "designed for Win8" sticker are required to have the ability to disable UEFI Secure Boot.

    16. Re:Try NewEgg by gQuigs · · Score: 2

      That is true that Microsoft does have that as their requirement for all x86 machines. ARM is not that case at all, and you can't turn secure boot off at all.

      There is nothing that I could find requiring it to be easy. What if you have to contact the company and request it? I see no reason they couldn't do that. (That's a similar model to what the OLPC people did). It's not so hard to fathem that they don't bother if you have less than 100 machines...

      That's why I said "depending on the manufactuer". Do you think Microsoft will revoke an x86 vendors sticker because it's very difficult to disable "secure" boot?

    17. Re:Try NewEgg by DancesWithRobots · · Score: 2

      Theoretically, a website shouldn't even know what OS you are using. It is more likely to be looking at which browser you are using via the user agent, and sometimes this can be a giveaway as to which OS you are using (e.g. you are probably running Linux if you are running iceweasel). This user agent field is changeable to whatever you want, it is usually there to help web servers send you stuff that is going to work in your browser. Usually websites either give you a version of their website that is customized for your browser or some generic default if they don't recognize the browser you are using. Maybe the McGraw Hill Connect website is just written sloppily and it is rejecting your user agent. Depending on your browser, there is probably a way to change it. There may even be a way to change it for just that one web site.

      There is also a possibility that you are using a browser that is blocking popups by default. Some websites assume you are using IE and therefore likely have popups enabled. This is kind of dumb, because I am not even sure IE allows them anymore.

      TELL me about it. There was a page in the support section to test a computers suitability. Compatible browser, Java installed, Flash installed, pop-up blocker turned off, COMPATIBLE OS. I hit every mark except Linux got red-flagged. Pissed me off immensely and their support agent was as expected--no help. I found another page on McGraw Hill's Connect web site that asked for log in info, and it sent me right to the courseware. Been completing lessons ever since. Also taking advantage of every soapbox I can find to warn folks that McGraw Hill is unfair to Linux users.

    18. Re:Try NewEgg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      If the device you buy has Windows 8 Professional, you automatically have downgrade rights to Windows 7 Professional. It's been in place on the Professional Windows versions since Windows XP. Get Windows 7 install media, call Microsoft and they provide a license.

    19. Re:Try NewEgg by westlake · · Score: 2

      Buy a computer that has the specs you want. Then wipe the hard drive and install Debian. Return the Windows 8 license for a refund. Problem solved.

      Even if this ploy is successful --- it's a perfectly ridiculous waste of time and money that will net you next to nothing.

      Microsoft has released licensing rates for OEM Windows 8, including US$60-80 for Windows 8, US$80-100 for Windows 8 Pro (with Office) and US$50-65 for Windows RT (with Office), according to Taiwan-based notebook supply chain makers.

      Microsoft unveils Windows 8 OEM licensing charges

      Then there is the small matter of warranty service and technical support.

      You purchased a system with hardware, software and drivers certified for Win 8, remember. Diagnosing and repairing problems associated with any random --- and customized --- Linux distro was not part of the deal,

    20. Re:Try NewEgg by masshuu · · Score: 2

      I have a co-worker who spent i think they said 4-5 hours total between 3 phone calls to whichever company produced their computer, i forget who it was.
      After complaining and yelling at them for 4 hours, they revoked the windows 8 licence and mailed them an OEM copy of windows 7 with drivers and they are quite happy now.

      --
      O.o
    21. Re:Try NewEgg by bemymonkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "You should be able to find the drivers for your mobo, gfx card, soundcard, nic etc direct from the pages of those manufacturers. Not as straightforward as slamming in the recovery disk but I doubt the hardware on new laptops won't support Windows 7."

      That's just it - the hardware supports Windows 7 just fine, but releasing customized versions (the customizations are necessary for things like battery life optimization) of Windows 7 drivers is expensive and time-consuming... many manufacturers simply won't bother unless they're still selling the same hardware with Windows 7 anyway, or offer an official downgrade option (like Dell or Lenovo on their business models)...

      If you just download a generic driver from Intel/nVidia/ATi, you usually won't get everything your hardware has to offer - be it things like OSDs for display of volume/brightness or battery life (example: Installing straight-from-manufacturer [i.e. all original Intel drivers] on a Thinkpad instead of the Lenovo-customized drivers will reduce your battery life by about 40% - it's a *huge* difference).

    22. Re:Try NewEgg by David+Gerard · · Score: 2

      UA string change extensions aplenty.

      For the bludgeon method: Windows Firefox running in Wine. It thinks it's on Windows, the site thinks it's on Windows, luvverly.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    23. Re:Try NewEgg by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      LOL

      in my last job I asked for a Mac Pro because I wanted a *nix workstation that wasn't Linux. Because if it was Linux I'd spend half my time messing around with customising it. OSX is so amazingly uncustomisable I'd have to focus on my work. And its *nix under the hood and a great powerhouse workstation.

      That's like gluing your Lego together.

      So it doesn't fall apart. This is work.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    24. Re:Try NewEgg by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 4, Funny

      Typical internet advice:

      Q: "So where should I go if looking for laptops sans OS, or at the very least sans Windows 8?"

      A: "Buy a laptop with Windows 8, then..."

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
  2. apple.com by SirJorgelOfBorgel · · Score: 2, Funny

    See comment subject. Doesn't come with Windows 8. Guaranteed.

    1. Re:apple.com by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      And is willing to do a wipe/reinstall. Which works on Apple as well.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
  3. system76 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    https://www.system76.com/

    1. Re:system76 by cab15625 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just to clarify for the AC, system 76 sells/ships laptops, desktops, and servers with Ubuntu. If you are a linux user or feel like you might be ready to take the plunge, this is a good place to start. At least their systems are fully linux compatible. Even if you don't like ubuntu and have some other pet distribution, it has a better chance of working on one of these than if you get a windows laptop and flush the hard drive to install linux. Bonus: no windows tax, and no money to MS (except for possible hidden patent trolling on hardware or firmware).

    2. Re:system76 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/laptop-computers/
      Good deal, you can choose Windows 7, or "No operating system required" to spare 79 pounds. I have one for six months, serves me well with Debian Wheezy on board.

    3. Re:system76 by catchblue22 · · Score: 2

      I'm typing this from a recently purchased System76 Gazelle laptop, and the experience has been good so far. I am coming from running a Macbook Pro, which I had for several years. The mac was a nice machine, but have been getting creeped out by Apple's apparent slow drift towards the "post pc world". My iPad feels like a jail (perhaps more a luxury jail, but a jail nontheless) since I can only run what Apple allows, and I don't think I should have to jailbreak my own computer to gain proper control over it. Microsoft is far far worse, and I will never again buy an MS product. Their recent moves, specifically requiring UEFI secure boot on all computers sold with Windows 8, and requiring that it be turned on on all tablets with Windows sounds to me like a deliberate attempt to reduce my ability to choose computers and to run the operating system of my choice. If a computer maker needs to write their own implementation of UEFI, then they must test it with the OS that they will be running. If they don't test it adequately for Linux, then we will end up with situations like the recent Linux installations bricking Samsung laptops. It seems likely that computer makers won't adequately test their UEFI systems for minority operating systems. This therefore will reduce the inventory of laptops that will run Linux. .Microsoft's recent investment in Dell seems likely aimed to prevent Dell from selling tablet computers that can run Linux. Dell already sells Linux computers, and they seem to be a good candidate to make a non-android Linux tablet.

      My choice to run a Linux laptop is partly political and partly a decision that I believe is in my own personal interest. I miss some things about my mac. The touchpad on my Macbook Pro was outstanding, and I really miss the way the Preview software on OSX deals with pdf files, specifically making a box selection on an existing pdf file and creating a new vector-based pdf from the boxed selection. I am not even sure this is possible on Linux, and it is at least difficult to do in Windows (perhaps using Illustrator?). However I have found I can do almost all the things I need to do in Linux, even if sometimes I have to search. The processor is an i7 so it is very fast. There is no real lag apparent in desktop graphics, even Unity. Overall I am happy I made the choice to move to Linux, and I hope more people will follow me.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
  4. MacBook or Dell by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Informative

    Get a Macbook and then put Windows 7 on it.

    Dell also has a Windows 7 page.

    I'm sure any business-friendly vendor will have the same if you poke around.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    1. Re:MacBook or Dell by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Replying to myself... Dell links to Windows 8 laptops from their Windows 7 page... ugh.

      Still, they have Windows 7 laptops:
      XPS 13
      Their m5030 is in the stores.
      Latitude 2xxx
      Latitude E5xxx

      Go to their Business site, select laptops, and check the box for Windows 7.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  5. eBay, Dell Outlet by Lewie · · Score: 2

    spring to mind immediately...

    --
    This sig washed every five years whether it needs it or not!
  6. Dell.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can go to Dell.com and they have the option to build your own laptop with the OS you want.

  7. Just use windows 8... by oic0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Install a third party start button program that also takes you straight to desktop. At that point you basically have windows 7, just dont hold your mouse cursor in a corner or that not so lucky charms BS appears. Wish there was a way to turn that off.

    1. Re:Just use windows 8... by TimCook7314 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, please don't do this. M$ needs to know what a hunk of crap they've released reflected by low sales.

    2. Re:Just use windows 8... by SScorpio · · Score: 2

      Are you using Start8 or Classic Shell? Both have options to disable the charm bar.

    3. Re:Just use windows 8... by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've been using windows 8 for a while (got it for free) and I'd have to say it is far from a "hunk of crap". Yes, metro sucks, but you don't have to use it, which is what GP suggests.

      Some things I like about 8 are this: reduced memory/disk footprint, easier access to commonly used functions (mouse to the far bottom left, right click; works with start8 too, though some start menu replacements disable this useful feature) more efficient copy dialog that even shows instantaneous rather than average transfer rates (pretty nice feature to have, yet shockingly windows 8 is the only OS that does it) better explorer functions like e.g. "admin console here", and built in support for mounting iso's. With windows 7 you have to add these in on your own, with windows 8 they are already there.

      If you want to show your distaste with metro, enable the customer experience reporting setting and just don't use it. They actually do make design decisions based on that.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    4. Re:Just use windows 8... by wolfemi1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Tim Cook? You're hardly a disinterested third party. :)

    5. Re:Just use windows 8... by steelfood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      reduced memory/disk footprint

      Wait, what? Smaller disk footprint?

      better explorer functions like e.g. "admin console here", and built in support for mounting iso's. With windows 7 you have to add these in on your own, with windows 8 they are already there.

      With windows 8, you need to add the start button on your own. I'll take the start button over some little-used run cmd as admin anytime.

      If you want to show your distaste with metro, enable the customer experience reporting setting and just don't use it. They actually do make design decisions based on that.

      I have a better idea. Instead of we the end user put up with Microsoft's crap just so we can give them feedback, why not just give them feedback by not purchasing it at all.

      Is that Stockholm syndrome I smell?

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    6. Re:Just use windows 8... by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      I have no problem doing that. I wasn't the one with the problem.

      But I still find the effect jarring, and seeing as there is absolutely no advantage to Windows 8 on the hardware I currently own, I don't see any need to subject myself to it.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:Just use windows 8... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      GP mentioned Start8 for a reason.

  8. Have you actually looked? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2

    Amazon has many. Just put in Windows 7 as one of the filters.

  9. Downgrade Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Windows 8 licensing includes downgrade rights. If you have the key and a Windows 7 disk you can re-install to Windows 7 with minimal problems. Double check to make sure this won't void your warranty though, if you care about that.

    1. Re:Downgrade Rights by coastal984 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not so easy. Microsoft eff'd consumers with Windows 8 by embedding the keys in the BIOS - they are not use-ably retrievable. My shop used to clone PC batches by building a clean install of 7, then cloning it to others, and activating Windows with the key on the box. Not possible anymore - they are trying to force us into getting a volume license agreement, stating that cloning is a "right granted to volume license customers". Total crap by M$.

    2. Re:Downgrade Rights by omnichad · · Score: 4, Informative

      That has nothing to do with using downgrade rights. You have to get downgrade media from the OEM, however.

      http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx

    3. Re:Downgrade Rights by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 2

      The problem is, then Microsoft will not only count you as a Windows 7 customer/user, but also tally you in as a Windows 8 customer/user. Even if the entire reason for choosing to downgrade was to not have to touch (or count yourself as a user of) a steaming pile of shit in the first place. You're better off just getting a system with Win7 and not helping to improve Microsoft's Win8 stats. The next best solution would be to get a system with a "no OS" or "FreeDOS" option and getting a retail Win7 disc to install... avoid the dual-counting, crapware and other garbage, but Microsoft charges an arm and a leg for it.

      This is exactly the reason I do not use Windows. Microsoft is crooked, they gouge your ass no matter what you do.

  10. Another alternative. by murph · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://zareason.com/

    --
    I don't care about your karma, I don't care about what's hip. --Weird Al
  11. Lenovo by b_dover · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Order it an you can choose 7 instead of 8

  12. Buy in the small business section by metrometro · · Score: 5, Informative

    The big PC maker's online storefronts have a consumer and business section. Your milage may vary but the business section of say, Dell or Lenovo, tilts towards good build quality, OS flexibility, and less crapware. Finding a Win7 machine is no problem at all.

    http://shop.lenovo.com/us/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x230

  13. Clevo / Sager by oic0 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Clevo based laptops typically come configured however you want and lacking whatever you don't want. No OS? no problem. You can also get em without hard drive, memory, chip, video card, whatever. They can be bought bare bones or with as much as you want in em. Also, the screen selection on them is usually much better. You can opt for much higher resolution than youll get in a dell etc...

  14. Do you use the start menu often? by Kelbear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I never do.

    Really, the biggest change in Windows 8, is that I have to press the windows key when I login. Nothing else really changed in the OS for me. I still just hit win+r for the "Run" prompt, or click a shortcut in the number of places I've aggregated them that make much more sense than Win 7's start menu layout. I got Windows 8 because it was just $15 for a valid windows license.

    I'm in full agreement that there's no reason to upgrade from windows 7 to windows 8. But if you get windows 8, it's not the end of the world (unless you're really married to the start menu). Or hell, if you really need the start menu, just go download it and install it. If you're on slashdot you should know how to do this. This askslashdot is kind of a no-brainer.

    1. Re:Do you use the start menu often? by Nimey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      *eyeroll*

      Ctrl-Esc does the same thing. You just don't get the Windows-key shortcuts that you've been missing all these years, like always.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
  15. Amazon by Lester67 · · Score: 2

    I'll reiterate Newegg, and add Amazon.com. Their list of top 10 selling laptops for Christmas, none of the top 5 were Win8, and all of those models are still for sale.

  16. System76 by Kryai · · Score: 4, Informative

    I just purchased a laptop from https://www.system76.com/ their laptops come only with Ubuntu, had excellent customization options, and reasonable pricing (why is it so hard to customize laptops nowadays, when did this happen =\ ) My colleague recommended them and I get my laptop Monday so I don't have first hand experience yet, but I just had to make this decision and that's what I ended with selecting.

  17. Thinkpad by oGMo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Get a Thinkpad. I just got a W530 with a 1920x1080 screen, one of the few you can find outside Apple. It has great Linux support, even down to the silly fingerprint reader. I can easily get 7 hours or so on the battery with the recommended tweaks. There's a whole wiki just for Thinkpad stuff.

    It ships with Windows 7, but you never have to boot into Windows. You can blow away the whole drive, "recovery" and "boot" partitions, and never look back. It has a conventional BIOS in addition to UEFI (disabled by default; leave it that way), so you shouldn't have any issues there.

    It's a tank, it's not terribly sexy like an ultrabook, but it's great if you want a desktop-fast Linux-friendly workstation laptop.

    --

    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    1. Re:Thinkpad by damn_registrars · · Score: 3, Informative
      I'm not the OP here but I am a thinkpad guy so I thought I'd offer my $.02. I recently upgraded from a very much battle-worn R32 to a new T510. The former was a value series but indisputably an IBM thinkpad. The latter is a Lenovo from the regular line-up. I've owned both since new, the latter of which I ordered custom-built.

      What's your opinion of the new keyboards

      I think the new keyboard is still great, easily better than any other on the market for a laptop. Response is great, a nice tactile feel. Keys are 95% size IIRC and no problem to type on. I type quite a bit - just finished my PhD thesis - so I probably know my keyboards better than most. I do have a couple IBM M series full-size keyboards (with trackpoint, of course) that I use for heavy-duty typing but there are times when a silent keyboard is called for and the T510 is great for that time.

      My only complaint on the keyboard is that the finish leaves something to be desired. I have naturally oily skin which seems to eat the finish off fairly quick. My left mouse button, for example, looks quite a bit older than it actually is. I do keep a silicone skin on my keyboard most of the time, FWIW.

      If so, any opinions as to changes in quality, keyboard or otherwise?

      All in all, I would say my T510 is still a great unit. Hardware wise my only gripe is that this particular model (or any T510) doesn't have the ultrabay, and hence is limited to the system battery (though I do have the 9 cell). I can also tell you I have dropped my thinkpad from table height - while running - more than once already and that has caused absolutely no noticeable damage whatsoever to any part of the system.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  18. DreamSpark (formerly MSDNAA) by Nichotin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Do you have access to DreamSpark via your school? I study IT in Norway, and with my Microsoft DreamSpark login I can get a good bunch of their operating systems for free. If you do, then get a Windows 8 laptop (just make sure Windows 7 compatible drivers are available), then install Windows 7 from DreamSpark.

    Another option is to install Start8 from Stardock or similar, if it is the new interface stuff you don't like. I found Windows 8 quite likable with a proper start menu.

    --
    Dvorak on Doomtech
  19. Windows 8 is not a big deal. by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2

    I had the RC for a while. If you absolutely hate Metro you can download tools to can it and give yourself a reasonable replacement Start Menu, though the best ones cost money. StartMenu8 was the best of the free ones IIRC, while Stardock's Start8 was the best of the best but is like $20 or $30 or something like that. Then it's just like using Windows 7 with some minor enhancements (it doesn't get a lot of love but I love the Ribbon UI, and now Explorer has it).

  20. You can't by sproketboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    and your IP has been reported to Balmer. ;)

  21. Re:Just use windows 8...Pirate 7 by Jeng · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sure Microsoft isn't just working to get paid twice?

    Once for the Windows 8 license that the oem pays for and once for the Windows 7 that the customer puts on it for twice the price the oem paid for Windows 8.

    So screw that, the pirated copies of Windows 7 are getting much better, just go with that.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  22. Or just f'ing use Win 8... by The+Dancing+Panda · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously. It's the same, with a small UI change. The Start Menu is now accessed by moving your mouse to bottom left corner of the screen, and it's redesigned in a tile format. Other than that small change (which people make way too big a deal of), and moving the Control Panel to the settings menu (bottom right corner, click Settings), it works exactly the same, in my experience.

  23. Windows 8 not much different by onkelonkel · · Score: 3, Informative

    At the risk of not actually answering the question you asked, why not use Windows 8? One click and you are on the desktop, and the experience is roughly the same as windows 7. If that one click is too much effort, install Classic Shell, and get almost exactly the same experience as windows 7. It works for me (YMMV).

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  24. did i end up on Ehow.com ?!? by hurfy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Get out of the stores with 3 choices, perhaps?

    here
    http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-14-G4-2149se-Butterfly-Blossom-Design-Laptop-PC-with-AMD-A6-4400M-Processor-and-Windows-7-Home-Premium-with-Windows-8-Upgrade-Option-bundled-with/21191020

    Newegg had 144 hits (lots of refurb, but better than craigslist suggested below!) on win 7 home premium alone.
    Dell, Tigerdirect, even Walmart all had them.

    I think this was meant to be posted next year...... ...and all those refurbs will still be there, even if new isn't....

  25. Before you ditch Windows 8 by gsgriffin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Try a convertible like the Lenovo Yoga. I got one for my daughter off at college, and she LOVES it....she had been on windows 7 ever since it came out. When you start using a laptop with a touch-screen and Windows 8, it all makes sense and is really something great. A windows 8 laptop without a touch screen doesn't work for me either.

    --
    jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
  26. Re:Why Win7 fan so against Win8? by armanox · · Score: 2

    Personally, I find Windows 8 to be ugly. It looks horrible compared to Windows Vista/7, Mac OS X, GNOME/KDE/Unity, etc.

    --
    I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
  27. Re:Is it normal ? by Fishchip · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't go ruining another great Slashdot Win8-bashing thread so early. That's the only reason I can think of for the existence of this thread because it was over with the guy who said 'Wipe it and install Win7'. Really, is that so much of an ordeal over finding a new lappy retail without Win8?

  28. Ubuntu.. by Paracelcus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Problem Solved!

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  29. Simple Fix by Deathlizard · · Score: 2

    1) Buy the laptop you want with Win8 on it.
    2) Download Classic Shell

    The only big interface change is the Metro Start Menu. everything else in desktop mode is what you know from Windows 7. If you don't want to deal with Metro, Classic shell will get rid of that for you.

    --
    In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
  30. Re:Is it normal ? by myowntrueself · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.classicshell.net/

    Windows 8 is fine, its pretty fast, and with one simple third party UI extension is actually usable.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  31. Just wipe the thing by WillgasM · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sure the subsidies microsoft paid to have Win8 installed on that laptop actually make it cheaper overall than buying a laptop without an os. If you were thinking of moving to a linux distro, just wipe the damn thing.

  32. Re:Why Win7 fan so against Win8? by jones_supa · · Score: 3, Informative

    Everything in Windows 8 looks like they are just single-color HTML <div>'s with some margins splattered around.

    Compare also the boot logo of Win7 to the amateurish logo of Win8.

  33. I agree by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

    What with doing Windows support for a living I use the new and old Windows versions all the time. I run 8 at work, 7 at home. 8 is fine, once you get a start menu back. Start 8 is my favourite, costs $5. Start is Back costs $3 and actually restores the Windows start menu, the code is still in Win 8, at least most of it. Classic Shell is of course free and works fine, I just don't care for it as much.

    One that is there, it works real well. It is fast and stable, and it has some improvements I like, the new task manager is quite nice.

    It isn't worth rushing out to upgrade, it isn't OMGbettar than 7, if you have 7 stick with it. However it isn't problematic. It runs every program I've tried on it that also ran on 7 (and I've tried a lot) and it isn't problematic to use.

    For that matter even the new start menu is perfectly usable, it is just more clunky than what it replaced. It isn't hard to use, just slower and inelegant. Perfectly usable though, we leave it on the 2012 servers we have.

  34. Just Kill Metro by Sarusa · · Score: 2

    If you just disable Metro and get your start menu back with Start8, RetroUI, Classic Shell, or other options, you've got Win7 with a few nice upgrades. It's not worth a lot of effort or extra money to stick with Win7 (though if you can for the same price, go for it) Nor would I suggest most people pay the upgrade price for an existing Win7.

    I do this at work - nobody even notices except one of our IT guys when he saw my lock screen, which looks a bit different under 8. More to the point I can swap back between it and Win7 machines and not even care or notice except that Win8 has a nicer copy/move box.

  35. Re:Why Win7 fan so against Win8? by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why does everyone seem to forget that god damn "Charms" bar and those fucking Metro-style system notifications when they try to claim the Windows 8 desktop is no different than the one in Windows 7? Or the lack of start menu which requires third-party programs to bring back, unless you want to deal with that shitty start screen designed as the basis for Metro and an interface for touchscreens? Or the fact that they literally gutted core Windows system dialogs and replaced them with Metro versions? Windows 8 is far from being "not much different" than Windows 7.

  36. Re:Is it normal ? by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, wipe and reinstall win7 is not cheap. Windows 7 is not given away, and if you don't have an old non-OEM version hanging around it will cost you.

    Really the reason so many people have Windows is because it comes free or close to free with computers. If people ever had to pay full non-OEM prices then it would die quickly.

  37. Re:Is it normal ? by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 2

    Do you find it normal to whine about features that are no longer useful? Is your desktop really that barren of frequently used program icons that you must use the start menu functionality more than a handful of times a week? Are your most commonly changed settings that far away when clicking the charm menu vs start/control/subgroup/etc? Did you even try to find out if there might be other alternatives in place like... ctrl-x? Or just right clicking over the mini-start screen in the bottom left corner?

    Its all there, some of it quicker to use, some of it perhaps a click further for less used items. Please, get on with your life and stop fixating on start menu.

  38. Re:Is it normal ? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 3, Funny

    Agreed... In general sticking to whatever OS the laptop came with will give you the least amount of trouble.

    ...and will prompt many a Slashdotter to mutter, 'Turn in your geek card, buddy,' between sips of the mornng cuppa.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  39. Re:Is it normal ? by Chalnoth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes. I purposefully keep my desktop clean, and almost exclusively use the start menu to access my programs. I do not like clutter, and only use my desktop for a couple of widgets and temporary file storage.

    The start menu is vastly, vastly better for multitasking than a desktop: the desktop is already hidden by the programs that are already open, and I don't want to have to go back to it just to open a new program.

    So no, I think the Windows 8 UI is a stupid attempt to bring a user interface that is okay for the tablet into the desktop/laptop space where it absolutely does not belong.

  40. Re:Is it normal ? by marcello_dl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do you find it normal having to re-learn how to do stuff with your pc because the OS producer needs to make his products unique so you have more trouble using the alternatives? Every 3 years?

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    ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol