Ask Slashdot: Buying a Laptop That Doesn't Have Windows 8

First time accepted submitter Sagan's Pie writes "I'm starting to look for a laptop for college, and the only thing I seem to find are laptops or tablets that have Windows 8. I have used Windows 7 for a long time now, and would not have a problem giving it up, but not for Windows 8. After visiting many major online retail sites, I've found that finding either a Windows 7 laptop, or even a laptop without an operating system is nearly impossible. So where should I go if looking for laptops sans os, or at the very least sans Windows 8?"

Comments

Try NewEgg

[GeckoFood]

NewEgg still sells Windows 7 laptops. Go into the laptops/notebooks section and enter Windows 7 as a keyword. Some of the units that come back are refurbs, but some are brand new.

Re:Try NewEgg

[rudy_wayne]

Buy a computer that has the specs you want, then wipe the hard drive and install Windows 7. Problem solved.

Re:Try NewEgg

[Anonymous Coward]

Or check out this site: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop .

Re:Try NewEgg

[linebackn]

Buy a computer that has the specs you want, then wipe the hard drive and install Windows 7. Problem solved.

Except it is not always that simple. Supposedly there are already some laptops out there that lack drivers for Windows 7. The number of incompatible laptops will increase as time goes on.

There is also the problem of support. Vendors may refuse to support your hardware if it does not have the factory provided OS or software on it.

And on top of that, you would be paying for an additional windows license.

Re:Try NewEgg

[cayenne8]

Have you tried the Apple store?

No windows 8 there.

:)

However, on a more serious note...you could get a nice macbook pro....and install VMWare on it...and get a OEM copy of Win 7 (I still seem them on newegg for a decent price)...and run it in a VM.

This combo allows you to have the best of all worlds on one computer...OSX, Windows (your fav. flavor) and Linux...etc.

That's actually the route I went.

Re:Try NewEgg

[gQuigs]

From what I understand that will depend on the UEFI implentation of the Windows 8 machine. That may no longer work depending on the manufacturer.

If you can't disable secure boot you won't be able to even install Windows 7, much less my preferred Ubuntu.

Re:Try NewEgg

[Hatta]

Buy a computer that has the specs you want. Then wipe the hard drive and install Debian. Return the Windows 8 license for a refund. Problem solved.

Re:Try NewEgg

[MightyMartian]

We just bought eight Toshiba Satellites with Windows 7 installed. Funny part was they didn't even ask if we wanted Windows 7. It wasn't until they were just about to ship it that my rep called and said "I forgot to ask whether you wanted Windows 8 or not." I imagine they're getting so few business customers wanting Windows 8 it slips their mind.

Re:Try NewEgg

[DancesWithRobots]

Or check out this site: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop .

Uh. . .I'd be careful with this. I've been using Ubuntu exclusively for years and have had no serious problems UNTIL I tried to log into the online portion of a course via McGraw Hill Connect. The log in screen bounced me out for no other reason than because I was using Linux. The ironic part is when I found a way in that bypassed the courses official log-in screen, the online portions ran just fine.

Re:Try NewEgg

[camperdave]

LOL

in my last job I asked for a Mac Pro because I wanted a *nix workstation that wasn't Linux. Because if it was Linux I'd spend half my time messing around with customising it. OSX is so amazingly uncustomisable I'd have to focus on my work. And its *nix under the hood and a great powerhouse workstation.

That's like gluing your Lego together.

Re:Try NewEgg

[arth1]

you can disable UEFI in the bios

Huh? UEFI is what new machines have instead of BIOS.
Some older designs have UEFI with a bios emulator (like InsydeH2O), where you can turn off UEFI boot and rely on BIOS boot only. But that depends on having a BIOS or BIOS emulator in the first place, which is no longer a given.

What you might have thought of was turning off UEFI secure boot, which is what prevents you from installing operating systems without a secure key that the UEFI manufacturer knows and allows. Which again may or may not be possible, depending on the model.

Re:Try NewEgg

[TsuruchiBrian]

Theoretically, a website shouldn't even know what OS you are using. It is more likely to be looking at which browser you are using via the user agent, and sometimes this can be a giveaway as to which OS you are using (e.g. you are probably running Linux if you are running iceweasel). This user agent field is changeable to whatever you want, it is usually there to help web servers send you stuff that is going to work in your browser. Usually websites either give you a version of their website that is customized for your browser or some generic default if they don't recognize the browser you are using. Maybe the McGraw Hill Connect website is just written sloppily and it is rejecting your user agent. Depending on your browser, there is probably a way to change it. There may even be a way to change it for just that one web site.

There is also a possibility that you are using a browser that is blocking popups by default. Some websites assume you are using IE and therefore likely have popups enabled. This is kind of dumb, because I am not even sure IE allows them anymore.

Re:Try NewEgg

[shutdown -p now]

All Win8 machines that have the "designed for Win8" sticker are required to have the ability to disable UEFI Secure Boot.

Re:Try NewEgg

[Anonymous Coward]

If the device you buy has Windows 8 Professional, you automatically have downgrade rights to Windows 7 Professional. It's been in place on the Professional Windows versions since Windows XP. Get Windows 7 install media, call Microsoft and they provide a license.

Re:Try NewEgg

[bemymonkey]

"You should be able to find the drivers for your mobo, gfx card, soundcard, nic etc direct from the pages of those manufacturers. Not as straightforward as slamming in the recovery disk but I doubt the hardware on new laptops won't support Windows 7."

That's just it - the hardware supports Windows 7 just fine, but releasing customized versions (the customizations are necessary for things like battery life optimization) of Windows 7 drivers is expensive and time-consuming... many manufacturers simply won't bother unless they're still selling the same hardware with Windows 7 anyway, or offer an official downgrade option (like Dell or Lenovo on their business models)...

If you just download a generic driver from Intel/nVidia/ATi, you usually won't get everything your hardware has to offer - be it things like OSDs for display of volume/brightness or battery life (example: Installing straight-from-manufacturer [i.e. all original Intel drivers] on a Thinkpad instead of the Lenovo-customized drivers will reduce your battery life by about 40% - it's a *huge* difference).

Re:Try NewEgg

[Digital Vomit]

Typical internet advice:

Q: "So where should I go if looking for laptops sans OS, or at the very least sans Windows 8?"

A: "Buy a laptop with Windows 8, then..."

system76

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.system76.com/

Re:system76

[cab15625]

Just to clarify for the AC, system 76 sells/ships laptops, desktops, and servers with Ubuntu. If you are a linux user or feel like you might be ready to take the plunge, this is a good place to start. At least their systems are fully linux compatible. Even if you don't like ubuntu and have some other pet distribution, it has a better chance of working on one of these than if you get a windows laptop and flush the hard drive to install linux. Bonus: no windows tax, and no money to MS (except for possible hidden patent trolling on hardware or firmware).

MacBook or Dell

[MightyYar]

Get a Macbook and then put Windows 7 on it.

Dell also has a Windows 7 page.

I'm sure any business-friendly vendor will have the same if you poke around.

Re:MacBook or Dell

[MightyYar]

Replying to myself... Dell links to Windows 8 laptops from their Windows 7 page... ugh.

Still, they have Windows 7 laptops:
XPS 13
Their m5030 is in the stores.
Latitude 2xxx
Latitude E5xxx

Go to their Business site, select laptops, and check the box for Windows 7.

Just use windows 8...

[oic0]

Install a third party start button program that also takes you straight to desktop. At that point you basically have windows 7, just dont hold your mouse cursor in a corner or that not so lucky charms BS appears. Wish there was a way to turn that off.

Re:Just use windows 8...

[TimCook7314]

Actually, please don't do this. M$ needs to know what a hunk of crap they've released reflected by low sales.

Re:Just use windows 8...

[AlphaWolf_HK]

I've been using windows 8 for a while (got it for free) and I'd have to say it is far from a "hunk of crap". Yes, metro sucks, but you don't have to use it, which is what GP suggests.

Some things I like about 8 are this: reduced memory/disk footprint, easier access to commonly used functions (mouse to the far bottom left, right click; works with start8 too, though some start menu replacements disable this useful feature) more efficient copy dialog that even shows instantaneous rather than average transfer rates (pretty nice feature to have, yet shockingly windows 8 is the only OS that does it) better explorer functions like e.g. "admin console here", and built in support for mounting iso's. With windows 7 you have to add these in on your own, with windows 8 they are already there.

If you want to show your distaste with metro, enable the customer experience reporting setting and just don't use it. They actually do make design decisions based on that.

Re:Just use windows 8...

[wolfemi1]

Tim Cook? You're hardly a disinterested third party. :)

Re:Just use windows 8...

[steelfood]

reduced memory/disk footprint

Wait, what? Smaller disk footprint?

better explorer functions like e.g. "admin console here", and built in support for mounting iso's. With windows 7 you have to add these in on your own, with windows 8 they are already there.

With windows 8, you need to add the start button on your own. I'll take the start button over some little-used run cmd as admin anytime.

If you want to show your distaste with metro, enable the customer experience reporting setting and just don't use it. They actually do make design decisions based on that.

I have a better idea. Instead of we the end user put up with Microsoft's crap just so we can give them feedback, why not just give them feedback by not purchasing it at all.

Is that Stockholm syndrome I smell?

Another alternative.

[murph]

http://zareason.com/

Lenovo

[b_dover]

Order it an you can choose 7 instead of 8

Buy in the small business section

[metrometro]

The big PC maker's online storefronts have a consumer and business section. Your milage may vary but the business section of say, Dell or Lenovo, tilts towards good build quality, OS flexibility, and less crapware. Finding a Win7 machine is no problem at all.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x230

Clevo / Sager

[oic0]

Clevo based laptops typically come configured however you want and lacking whatever you don't want. No OS? no problem. You can also get em without hard drive, memory, chip, video card, whatever. They can be bought bare bones or with as much as you want in em. Also, the screen selection on them is usually much better. You can opt for much higher resolution than youll get in a dell etc...

Do you use the start menu often?

[Kelbear]

I never do.

Really, the biggest change in Windows 8, is that I have to press the windows key when I login. Nothing else really changed in the OS for me. I still just hit win+r for the "Run" prompt, or click a shortcut in the number of places I've aggregated them that make much more sense than Win 7's start menu layout. I got Windows 8 because it was just $15 for a valid windows license.

I'm in full agreement that there's no reason to upgrade from windows 7 to windows 8. But if you get windows 8, it's not the end of the world (unless you're really married to the start menu). Or hell, if you really need the start menu, just go download it and install it. If you're on slashdot you should know how to do this. This askslashdot is kind of a no-brainer.

Re:Do you use the start menu often?

[Nimey]

*eyeroll*

Ctrl-Esc does the same thing. You just don't get the Windows-key shortcuts that you've been missing all these years, like always.

System76

[Kryai]

I just purchased a laptop from https://www.system76.com/ their laptops come only with Ubuntu, had excellent customization options, and reasonable pricing (why is it so hard to customize laptops nowadays, when did this happen =\ ) My colleague recommended them and I get my laptop Monday so I don't have first hand experience yet, but I just had to make this decision and that's what I ended with selecting.

Thinkpad

[oGMo]

Get a Thinkpad. I just got a W530 with a 1920x1080 screen, one of the few you can find outside Apple. It has great Linux support, even down to the silly fingerprint reader. I can easily get 7 hours or so on the battery with the recommended tweaks. There's a whole wiki just for Thinkpad stuff.

It ships with Windows 7, but you never have to boot into Windows. You can blow away the whole drive, "recovery" and "boot" partitions, and never look back. It has a conventional BIOS in addition to UEFI (disabled by default; leave it that way), so you shouldn't have any issues there.

It's a tank, it's not terribly sexy like an ultrabook, but it's great if you want a desktop-fast Linux-friendly workstation laptop.

Re:Thinkpad

[damn_registrars]

I'm not the OP here but I am a thinkpad guy so I thought I'd offer my $.02. I recently upgraded from a very much battle-worn R32 to a new T510. The former was a value series but indisputably an IBM thinkpad. The latter is a Lenovo from the regular line-up. I've owned both since new, the latter of which I ordered custom-built.

What's your opinion of the new keyboards

I think the new keyboard is still great, easily better than any other on the market for a laptop. Response is great, a nice tactile feel. Keys are 95% size IIRC and no problem to type on. I type quite a bit - just finished my PhD thesis - so I probably know my keyboards better than most. I do have a couple IBM M series full-size keyboards (with trackpoint, of course) that I use for heavy-duty typing but there are times when a silent keyboard is called for and the T510 is great for that time.

My only complaint on the keyboard is that the finish leaves something to be desired. I have naturally oily skin which seems to eat the finish off fairly quick. My left mouse button, for example, looks quite a bit older than it actually is. I do keep a silicone skin on my keyboard most of the time, FWIW.

If so, any opinions as to changes in quality, keyboard or otherwise?

All in all, I would say my T510 is still a great unit. Hardware wise my only gripe is that this particular model (or any T510) doesn't have the ultrabay, and hence is limited to the system battery (though I do have the 9 cell). I can also tell you I have dropped my thinkpad from table height - while running - more than once already and that has caused absolutely no noticeable damage whatsoever to any part of the system.

DreamSpark (formerly MSDNAA)

[Nichotin]

Do you have access to DreamSpark via your school? I study IT in Norway, and with my Microsoft DreamSpark login I can get a good bunch of their operating systems for free. If you do, then get a Windows 8 laptop (just make sure Windows 7 compatible drivers are available), then install Windows 7 from DreamSpark.

Another option is to install Start8 from Stardock or similar, if it is the new interface stuff you don't like. I found Windows 8 quite likable with a proper start menu.

You can't

[sproketboy]

and your IP has been reported to Balmer. ;)

Re:Just use windows 8...Pirate 7

[Jeng]

Sure Microsoft isn't just working to get paid twice?

Once for the Windows 8 license that the oem pays for and once for the Windows 7 that the customer puts on it for twice the price the oem paid for Windows 8.

So screw that, the pirated copies of Windows 7 are getting much better, just go with that.

Windows 8 not much different

[onkelonkel]

At the risk of not actually answering the question you asked, why not use Windows 8? One click and you are on the desktop, and the experience is roughly the same as windows 7. If that one click is too much effort, install Classic Shell, and get almost exactly the same experience as windows 7. It works for me (YMMV).

Re:Downgrade Rights

[omnichad]

That has nothing to do with using downgrade rights. You have to get downgrade media from the OEM, however.

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx

did i end up on Ehow.com ?!?

[hurfy]

Get out of the stores with 3 choices, perhaps?

here
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-14-G4-2149se-Butterfly-Blossom-Design-Laptop-PC-with-AMD-A6-4400M-Processor-and-Windows-7-Home-Premium-with-Windows-8-Upgrade-Option-bundled-with/21191020

Newegg had 144 hits (lots of refurb, but better than craigslist suggested below!) on win 7 home premium alone.
Dell, Tigerdirect, even Walmart all had them.

I think this was meant to be posted next year...... ...and all those refurbs will still be there, even if new isn't....

Before you ditch Windows 8

[gsgriffin]

Try a convertible like the Lenovo Yoga. I got one for my daughter off at college, and she LOVES it....she had been on windows 7 ever since it came out. When you start using a laptop with a touch-screen and Windows 8, it all makes sense and is really something great. A windows 8 laptop without a touch screen doesn't work for me either.

Ubuntu..

[Paracelcus]

Problem Solved!

Re:Is it normal ?

[myowntrueself]

http://www.classicshell.net/

Windows 8 is fine, its pretty fast, and with one simple third party UI extension is actually usable.

Re:Why Win7 fan so against Win8?

[jones_supa]

Everything in Windows 8 looks like they are just single-color HTML <div>'s with some margins splattered around.

Compare also the boot logo of Win7 to the amateurish logo of Win8.

I agree

[Sycraft-fu]

What with doing Windows support for a living I use the new and old Windows versions all the time. I run 8 at work, 7 at home. 8 is fine, once you get a start menu back. Start 8 is my favourite, costs $5. Start is Back costs $3 and actually restores the Windows start menu, the code is still in Win 8, at least most of it. Classic Shell is of course free and works fine, I just don't care for it as much.

One that is there, it works real well. It is fast and stable, and it has some improvements I like, the new task manager is quite nice.

It isn't worth rushing out to upgrade, it isn't OMGbettar than 7, if you have 7 stick with it. However it isn't problematic. It runs every program I've tried on it that also ran on 7 (and I've tried a lot) and it isn't problematic to use.

For that matter even the new start menu is perfectly usable, it is just more clunky than what it replaced. It isn't hard to use, just slower and inelegant. Perfectly usable though, we leave it on the 2012 servers we have.

Re:Why Win7 fan so against Win8?

[UltraZelda64]

Why does everyone seem to forget that god damn "Charms" bar and those fucking Metro-style system notifications when they try to claim the Windows 8 desktop is no different than the one in Windows 7? Or the lack of start menu which requires third-party programs to bring back, unless you want to deal with that shitty start screen designed as the basis for Metro and an interface for touchscreens? Or the fact that they literally gutted core Windows system dialogs and replaced them with Metro versions? Windows 8 is far from being "not much different" than Windows 7.

Re:Is it normal ?

[Darinbob]

Well, wipe and reinstall win7 is not cheap. Windows 7 is not given away, and if you don't have an old non-OEM version hanging around it will cost you.

Really the reason so many people have Windows is because it comes free or close to free with computers. If people ever had to pay full non-OEM prices then it would die quickly.

Re:Is it normal ?

[Zontar The Mindless]

Agreed... In general sticking to whatever OS the laptop came with will give you the least amount of trouble.

...and will prompt many a Slashdotter to mutter, 'Turn in your geek card, buddy,' between sips of the mornng cuppa.

Re:Is it normal ?

[Chalnoth]

Yes. I purposefully keep my desktop clean, and almost exclusively use the start menu to access my programs. I do not like clutter, and only use my desktop for a couple of widgets and temporary file storage.

The start menu is vastly, vastly better for multitasking than a desktop: the desktop is already hidden by the programs that are already open, and I don't want to have to go back to it just to open a new program.

So no, I think the Windows 8 UI is a stupid attempt to bring a user interface that is okay for the tablet into the desktop/laptop space where it absolutely does not belong.

Re:Is it normal ?

[marcello_dl]

Do you find it normal having to re-learn how to do stuff with your pc because the OS producer needs to make his products unique so you have more trouble using the alternatives? Every 3 years?