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Ancestor of All Placental Mammals Revealed

sciencehabit writes "The ancestor of all placental mammals—the diverse lineage that includes almost all species of mammals living today, including humans—was a tiny, furry-tailed creature that evolved shortly after the dinosaurs disappeared, a new study suggests. The hypothetical creature, not found in the fossil record but inferred from it, probably was a tree-climbing, insect-eating mammal that weighed between 6 and 245 grams—somewhere between a small shrew and a mid-sized rat. It was furry, had a long tail, gave birth to a single young, and had a complex brain with a large lobe for interpreting smells and a corpus callosum, the bundle of nerve fibers that connects the left and right hemispheres of the brain. The period following the dinosaur die-offs could be considered a 'big bang' of mammalian diversification, with species representing as many as 10 major groups of placentals appearing within a 200,000-year interval."

123 comments

  1. Pics or it didn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Just sayin'.

    1. Re:Pics or it didn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Furries and rule 34. Some ancestral love there.

    2. Re:Pics or it didn't happen by ByOhTek · · Score: 2

      I have mod points, and wanted to use them... but there is no "+1 Horrible".

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
  2. More Info Please... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A *POSSIBLE* ancestor that a study suggests *MIGHT* be what they thing. Maybe. Possibly.

    In other words, the headline is, as usual, misleading.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here's what may have happened to the little guy...

    2. Re:More Info Please... by Theovon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess you might say they interpolated what a likely ancestor was probably like.

    3. Re:More Info Please... by gewalker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How is the different than anything else in evolutionary theory. No actual observational science, a couple of fossils here and there, no soft tissue to examine. Then bang, an possible/probable ancestral relationship is declared by somebody -- often discarded later due to other discoveries. It is what it is and will always be unless you manage to make a time machine.

    4. Re:More Info Please... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      It's a single study stated as fact.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    5. Re:More Info Please... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      That is fucking hilarious.

    6. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      We're starting to sequence the genomes and map species after species at an accelerating rate. Within the century we'll have a gene-by-gene map of the ancestry of most of the biosphere.

    7. Re:More Info Please... by dudpixel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The genome project offers a fair bit more credibility than this, and it's more than "a couple" of fossils here and there.

      No one's saying it is all indisputable fact (science doesn't deal with facts) but to date no other theory has been put forward that can offer a better explanation of all the known data.

      That's how science works...so until a more plausible theory shows up, evolution is where we are at.

      As for this study, yeah there's a bit too much uncertainty for it to be much more than an opinion piece.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    8. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How does the phrase "..., a new study suggests." qualify as an assertion of fact?

    9. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's the history of religion you are describing.

    10. Re:More Info Please... by dbug78 · · Score: 5, Informative

      science doesn't deal with facts

      Uh, what? Facts are the foundation of science. If science has any issue with facts it's that Joe Sixpack thinks the hierarchy is...

      Hypothesis -> Theory -> Facts

      In actuality, it's...

      Facts -> Hypothesis -> Theory

      Hypotheses and theories are built on facts. Maybe you meant science doesn't deal with proof?

    11. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The problem with calling observations "facts" is that it can obscure a good deal of observational bias and measurement error. Its more tenable all around to just go with "data" or "observations".

    12. Re:More Info Please... by dudpixel · · Score: 2

      Correct - but I was talking about the Joe Sixpack definition, which as you pointed out, equals 'proof'.

      Thanks for the correction :-)

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    13. Re:More Info Please... by MightyMartian · · Score: 0

      talkorigins.org

      Or if that's too hard for you, I'll just call you an ignoramus.

      Any other subjects you know fuck all about you want to make sweeping declarations about?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    14. Re:More Info Please... by ichthyoboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Technically what we'll have is a good snapshot of current genomic diversity, from which we can infer the ancestry of that snapshot. We have some pretty good inferential methods, but each and every phylogeny that you see is simply a hypothesis of evolutionary relationships.

    15. Re:More Info Please... by kwyjibo87 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, yes, the headline is misleading, but it's also a bit more than a "possible" ancestor.

      The researchers in the study wanted to create a better phylogenetic reconstruction of the evolution of mammals than had been previously accomplished, to resolve whether divergence of placental mammals from non-plancental mammals (egg-laying / marsupials) occurred before or after the extinction of the Dinosaurs (the K-T boundary), and also to make predictions of the biology of that last common ancestor. Previous phylogenetic reconstructions had been done with molecular data (DNA or protein sequences), but molecular data is limited to extant species and makes a lot of assumptions about the rates of changes in DNA that get more unreliable the further back in time you go. This study combined molecular data with character traits they call 'phenomic' characters - from the paper: "4541 phenomic characters de novo for 86 fossil and living species." The resulting matrix of traits, both molecular and character, was used to generate a tree based on maximum parsimony - a method which minimizes the number of trait changes over time when building a tree. This resulted in a single, highest scoring tree predicting the evolution of these species and the changes in their traits over time. The resulting tree is then "clocked" (called 'time-calibration in the paper) to known rates of evolution for the molecular data (good for recent divergence of species) and by fossil data to give time ranges for the deeper sections of the tree. This last part is key, as you cannot get molecular data from fossils, and fossils allow you to map the existence of certain traits within a group to a certain point in the history of these organisms.

      The result is a time-range in which the last common ancestor between placental and NON-placental mammals must have lived, given the data provided and the parsimony criterion. As the tree makes claims about when the phenomic characters evolved or were lost, it also predicts which phenomic characters the last common ancestor had.

    16. Re:More Info Please... by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Maybe you meant science doesn't deal with proof?

      It's seems obvious to me that is what he meant, it also seems obvious to me you meant "observations" not "facts". A "fact" is an absolute truth only within an axiomatic system, science is not an axiomatic system. A "scientific fact" is a rigously tested theory that has no known conflict with observation.

      In actuality, it's...

      Observation -> Hypothesis -> Theory--> Test---> Scientific fact.
      - Feedback loops not shown.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    17. Re:More Info Please... by kwyjibo87 · · Score: 2

      Observation -> Hypothesis -> Theory--> Test---> Scientific fact.

      I'd only add:

      Observation -> Hypothesis -> Theory -> Predictions -> Test -> Scientific fact.

    18. Re:More Info Please... by linatux · · Score: 1

      photos, or it didn't happen!

    19. Re:More Info Please... by six025 · · Score: 1

      A *POSSIBLE* ancestor that a study suggests *MIGHT* be what they thing. Maybe. Possibly.

      In other words, the headline is, as usual, misleading.

      Worse, this crap gives the creationists plenty of reasons to laugh and point at science.

      Basically, headlines and (extremely) speculative articles like this do a lot of undermine the real work and value of science.

      Peace,
      Andy.

    20. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      seems staged as the hawk was off camera when it sat down.

    21. Re:More Info Please... by Vreejack · · Score: 3, Informative

      The characteristics of the first placental are not really controversial. The real news here is that a lot of the work on placentals and eutherians is wrong and must be re-evaluated. Granted, a lot of the placental work was already merely tentative. Molecular phylogenetics estimates had placentals appearing about 105 Mya, This new work ignores the molecular results and comes up with a later date. From what I can see, dating of the relevant available fossils is equivocal.

      Also curious is that according to this interpretation, the ancestral afrotherian (elephants, aardvarks, manatees, etc.) originated in South America and somehow migrated across the then 1000-mile ocean to Africa. Prepare for further revision.

      --
      "Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" -- Ivanhoe
    22. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's a wonderful troll. Someday I intend on reading it.

      Science deals with observation, not truth. If you'd read a little, you might get to the things that were being observed.

      You're clearly interested in some sort of truth, which is a different matter entirely. Science will never offer you that; our boundaries of truth are whatever our instruments can tell us. Which is a lot more than any religious education has ever produced, but I won't hold a grudge.

      I don't get worked up about God enough to hate him/her/it/them: why invest emotion into something that doesn't exist? You on the other hand seem to not believe in evolution (even though it's been demonstrated in a lab) and get quite worked up about it. You'll have to explain that one sometime. Maybe you secretly think it does exist, and just need a good reason to believe in it :P

    23. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hypothetical! ----> imagined

    24. Re:More Info Please... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Well you gota look at it like this. The hawk has to eat too, and while things did not work out so well for the mouse his alternative like fate was not better for him. I mean he would have died slowly having one or more of his limbs crushed in trap. After which he would have been buried so deep in a landfill lack of oxygen would likely even prevent most microbes from making use of him for decades.

      It might not have gone how the guy hoped but he still better served nature.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    25. Re:More Info Please... by rainmouse · · Score: 2

      How is the different than anything else in evolutionary theory. No actual observational science, a couple of fossils here and there, no soft tissue to examine. Then bang, an possible/probable ancestral relationship is declared by somebody -- often discarded later due to other discoveries. It is what it is and will always be unless you manage to make a time machine.

      An enormous catalogue of fossil history, geo distribution of species also provides massive evidence especially in recently observable separators such as archipelagos, the bounty genetic evidence, the ability to recreate observable evolution in our timescale on the bacterial level and our ability to force changes through selective breeding all combine to provide an irrefutable level of evidence. Each of these fields could also be used to disprove evolution if not for the fact that no reliable evidence contradictory to the theory has ever been produced. Anyone who can objectively examine even a portion of the evidence (there's so much it would take a lifetime to look at it all) and continue to refute the theory almost certainly has another agenda, either religious or political.

    26. Re:More Info Please... by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is, in a way, an observational science.

      You can observe changes of allele frequencies and phenotype frequencies in a population over time, and they do.

      Also, as the TFS (and I'm assuming TFA) says "The hypothetical creature", not theoretical, not definitive, hypothentical. Evolutionary science makes it clear that all cladograms are hypothesis, if you bother looking at it from more than a surface level.

      As for observation and predictability - it's hard to make predictions with evolution, but it has been done before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik
      I'm assuming the wikipedia article states this, but they knew about when the critter would have lived, and they knew what kind of areas had creatures from that time frame, they searched one, they found it.

      So, observations and even predictions can be made for evolutionary science.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    27. Re:More Info Please... by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      "The hypothetical creature, not found in the fossil record but inferred from it, probably was " doesn't sound very much like 'stated as a fact' to me. TFT might be misleading but beyond that, the appropriate care in phrasing seems to be in use.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    28. Re:More Info Please... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      No it doesn't. You think you are actually able to reason with creationists but this is not the case. Creationist operate on the belief level, outside of reason, thus it does not matter how good the scientific facts are. Write creationists off and go on with your life.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    29. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, how about: headlines like this give creationists something to "prove" to impressionable kids that science isn't worth a damn.

    30. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm tired of the constant same level of information that doesn't tell us anything about when our ancestors supposedly acquired the required attributes at the right time and explain why we are the way we are or otherwise we would be dead. When are scientists going to explain that?

      Fossil records are as they are, with timing and all. Genes are as they are, with rate of change, similarity and all. The right time is the one where everybody else don't breed as fast because they lack a certain quality.

    31. Re:More Info Please... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 0

      No, but it is designed to illicit recitation as fact later. In very short order, you will have "scientists" who state "All Mamals evolved from a single rodent" as a fact, and it will be place in Textbooks as a "fact" and so on. The fact that in the original source it is clearly hypothetical bullshit is irrelevant. Shit like this should NEVER be published as "science". It isn't "science" ... yet.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    32. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      to date no other theory has been put forward that can offer a better explanation of all the known data.

      That's how science works...so until a more plausible theory shows up, evolution is where we are at.

      That's actually false. The Flying Spaghetti Monster and Catholic Christian religions both have equally good or better explanations, that amount to "God plays little tricks on ya, for yer own damn good!". If you posit that an omnipotent deity exists, then nothing else is really provable scientifically, unless said deity is both benevolent and willing to let you have your own interactions with reality. The reason that evolution is our best theory is that we can observe its operation in nature, and know for a fact that it has occurred and is still occurring, not because it's the only logically self-consistent explanation of reality. Therefore it is not necessary to invoke faith-based explanations for phenomena that are adequately explained by evolution, and if an omnipotent benevolent force exists it will have no problem with such behavior on our part; it's only with the omnipotent force is malevolent, or if the benevolent force is not omnipotent, that we have to worry about science/faith interactions at all.

      People try to substitute science for religion, and they betray both in the process. A good religion is 100% compatible with science, and vice versa, and frankly it's not clear that everyone even needs religion - people closer to the autism end of the spectrum may not need it at all. So don't substitute "faith in science" for "faith in Baaphomet" or whatever your parents' fetish was; science enshrines skepticism and has no place for unconditional unproven belief (aka "faith") , not even when you are talking about the scientific method itself. If you can't live with conditional belief at all levels, get yourself a nice religion that does not harm others or offend your aethetic and/or moral sensibilities and reap the health and social benefits it can give you. If you can question the very basis of science itself, though, maybe you don't need religion, and you'll certainly be a better scientist for it.

    33. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you'll get creationists claiming scientists think all mammals evolved from a single imaginary rodent, while this is just a hypothesis to test, telling what to look for and where (or, rather, when). It's the very same "predictive power" that GGP claims is lacking from evolution theory, and that's exactly how theories are tested, by making predictions and then seeing if prediction can be confirmed by observations and experiments.

    34. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To clarify, I find nothing wrong with the matter reported, but I do find lots of wrong with the way it's reported. Sadly, that's common for science reporting.

    35. Re:More Info Please... by Lazere · · Score: 1

      You do realize this is exactly how science works, right? You look at the world, then you come up with a hypothesis which has conclusions (like this creature). You then test the conclusions (in this case look for it in the fossil record). If you find it, you can move to the theory stage. If a competing hypothesis (yes those exist) finds theirs instead, they get to move on to the theory stage.

    36. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uhm, africa and south america used to be part of the same land mass with Gondwanaland.

      For someone who knows so much about Molecular Biology and Paleogenetics, you could pay attention in High School Physical Science.

    37. Re:More Info Please... by Empiric · · Score: 1

      Depends on your definition of "evolution". If you mean "random mutation and natural selection", or a more-recent, nuanced version on that, there is not only extensive evidence against that as a sole causal factor, it is provably not the case.

      How do we know design is a factor when speaking to the scope of biological organisms, and provably so? Because we did it ourselves, through genetic engineering.

      I understand you likely don't accept that genetic engineering -also- happened previous to the 20'th century, but that conclusion would not based on science, as the question is not testable.

      Point being, unless you are willing to render the theory in a somewhat awkward terminology such as "evolutionary processes explain all biological characteristics, up until around 1951", your notion of "evolution" is not merely of an indeterminate scientific status, it is provably false.

      --
      ~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
    38. Re:More Info Please... by micahraleigh · · Score: 0

      This article says to me:

      Science is built on speculation.

    39. Re:More Info Please... by cusco · · Score: 1

      Not by that time. Gondwanaland had broken up several million years earlier, although I don't think the South Atlantic was 1000 miles wide yet.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    40. Re:More Info Please... by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      ..... your notion of "evolution" is not merely of an indeterminate scientific status, it is provably false.

      Interesting... so go ahead and disprove it. Please provide hard, testable or otherwise provable facts and not mere goofy wordplay. Are we talking proof such as finding large mammalian fossils in Ordovician or even pre Cambrian rock strata? That would do it. Or perhaps when you assert things like pre 20th century genetic engineering. Are you going to produce fingerprint signatures left behind by genetic engineers on existing modern animals? I'm eagerly awaiting the inevitable disappointment?

    41. Re:More Info Please... by Empiric · · Score: 0

      As stated, if your notion of "evolution" is as a scientific theory explaining all physical characteristics of biology, a set which includes organisms after 1951, it is directly false as a theory.

      And regarding fingerprints and such, no, that would be a test of a -limited subset- of biology, irrelevant to a statement about evolution that is intended to apply (as most scientific theories attempt) to -all- biology, and I already stated my position on that subset is that it is untestable. We are at a point much like the situation regarding the Copenhagen and Everett interpretations of quantum mechanics--which is "true" is indeterminate as the same observables support either interpretation, and there is no presently test by which to demonstrate one correct "versus" the other. There would be no overt difference in the fossil remains of an "engineered" versus "non-engineered" organism, just as the fossils of Dolly the Sheep (or any of the other thousands of available examples) would show no discernable evidence of engineering, even though that engineering, hence biological design, is a -fact-.

      If we are talking about "evolution" meaning "applying to all biology", then, again, as a statement about biology ascribing all physical characteristics to evolutionary process is simply false, which you can verify for yourself by googling any part of the history of genetic engineering. Genetically engineered organisms are biology, their characteristics were designed, and their biology can not be explained by natural selection mechanisms. Hence, a statement that "biology" per se is fully explainable by evolution is simply a false statement. It's quite simple fact, and is just there being the fact it is, and will remain so, regardless of how incompatible it may be to your habitual thoughts on the question.

      If, however, you're essentially confessing that you have no interest in making an accurate statement of a scientific theory apply to all biology, and rather actually could care less about scientific accuracy, and really just want to equivocate "evolution" to mean whatever it needs to mean to exclude views you personally don't like, then just say so and I'll leave your issue to you.

      --
      ~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
    42. Re:More Info Please... by cusco · · Score: 2

      Case in point: I can give 100 people the same 1 frame from the same movie that none of them (or I) have seen before and ask them to tell me the plot and I'll get 100 different answers

      Then you're doing it wrong. Give them each a different frame from a different point in the movie, and then let them get together to put them in a hopefully coherent whole. A few frames will be out of order, or perhaps reversed or upside down, but you'll end up with a pretty good approximation of the plot. We don't have just one eohippus fossil, nor do scientists work in a vacuum.

      how do you measure your measuring stick

      You compare it against every other item of known length that you have. That means that radioactive decay gets compared to stratigraphy which gets compared to geology which gets compared to known rates of deposition which gets compared to known erosion patterns etc, etc. all the way out to astrophysical measurements. To just about everyone's surprise they correlate very well. Again, scientists don't work in a vacuum, data and research cross disciplines all the time, and it's no longer unusual to have an experimental physicist working with a geologist or a archeologist.

      I'm not as smart as they are

      Apparently not, if you're willing to expound at such length about something that you so grossly misunderstand.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    43. Re:More Info Please... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      How do you test the hypothosis that there is such a thing like this "rodent" creature from a few hundred million years ago existed. Either you have a fossil you can point to that "might" be this creature, or you don't (which is THIS case).

      This is the problem with untestable hypothosis being introduced as "science", and it is no different than trying to create a hypothosis to test against the idea of a diety. None. Except for the fact that it is "sciency".

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    44. Re:More Info Please... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Exactly what my point is. It isn't what was said, it was what was said will be misconstrued as fact at some point down the road. This kind of "reporting" reflects poorly on true "science". This is nothing more than Psuedo-Science at this point.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    45. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If evolution posited that the only way biological organisms can change was through that process, your little hand-waving exercises might have some relevance (well, not really... anybody who bothers to read them carefully will still know better).

      However, it does not, and furthermore, it can be shown unequivocally than organisms which have been modified by other than standard evolutionary means still undergo evolutionary change afterwards. Which means that your examples help prove that evolution is true, not that it is false.

      Nice straw man ya got there, though. Say hi to Dorothy for me.

    46. Re:More Info Please... by Empiric · · Score: 0

      If evolution posited that the only way biological organisms can change was through that process...

      Great. Then for the purposes of discussion, enumerate specifically the means you are considering appropriate for discussion of the scope of applicability of "evolution".

      However, it does not, and furthermore, it can be shown unequivocally than organisms which have been modified by other than standard evolutionary means still undergo evolutionary change afterwards.

      See above for the request to move that beyond a hand-waving of nonspecific "it does not". Further, in no way have I suggested evolutionary change does not happen, that's your Straw Man, not mine, though, granted, very much the typical redirect. "Evolution occurs" is quite scientific, and quite accepted by me. "Only evolution occurs" is not scientific, and generally posited by people desperate for a non-sequitur to their position of atheism. Generally, the only difficulty is pinning down exactly what one means at any given moment by the term, and calling out the typical oscillations between the meanings as some try to give their views the patina of science, while actually not being so, but rather simply an inappropriate usage meant to imply or suggest, rather than demonstrate, validity to the worldview they wish to support.

      --
      ~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
    47. Re:More Info Please... by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      As stated, if your notion of "evolution" is as a scientific theory explaining all physical characteristics of biology, a set which includes organisms after 1951, it is directly false as a theory.

      Citation needed. So the overwhelming concensus of the worldwide community based on an undeniable array of evidence is false because of what... I'm still waiting for something with some form of refutation and not just gassy wordplay.

      .... I already stated my position on that subset is that it is untestable.

      With respect to your design argument for which you refuse to provide a shred of evidence.... “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens.

      We are at a point much like the situation regarding the Copenhagen and Everett interpretations of quantum mechanics--which is "true" is indeterminate as the same observables support either interpretation, and there is no presently test by which to demonstrate one correct "versus" the other.

      Using fancy words to try to describe the situation as anything other than countless studies worth of proof versus philosophical procrastination without evidence will not change anyone's rational opinion.

      There would be no overt difference in the fossil remains of an "engineered" versus "non-engineered" organism, just as the fossils of Dolly the Sheep (or any of the other thousands of available examples) would show no discernable evidence of engineering, even though that engineering, hence biological design, is a -fact-.

      See Hitchens quote above, read it again and again until you get it.

      If we are talking about "evolution" meaning "applying to all biology", then, again, as a statement about biology ascribing all physical characteristics to evolutionary process is simply false, which you can verify for yourself by googling any part of the history of genetic engineering.

      Perhaps you can find a link to this mysterious study of genetic engineering that has rocked the world by disproving evolution but has somehow been overlooked by all reputable geneticists and biologists, I would be most obliged,

      Genetically engineered organisms are biology, their characteristics were designed, and their biology can not be explained by natural selection mechanisms. Hence, a statement that "biology" per se is fully explainable by evolution is simply a false statement.

      All the fields of paleontology, biogeography, morphology, developmental biology and genetics have all come to a cast iron conclusion based on very different but still insurmountably substantial EVIDENCE that you are just simply lying here. Please stop attempting to use vague and seemingly intellectual language in a way that you clearly don't fully understand.

      It's quite simple fact, and is just there being the fact it is, and will remain so, regardless of how incompatible it may be to your habitual thoughts on the question.

      I think you need to consider your words more carefully before you set them down. This is gibberish. You are clearly used to attempting to tech babble people with nonsense but its not going to wash here. Go and try and read up a little on the subject you are attempting to debunk, understand a little about it and you might actually learn something worthwhile. But if you cant provide any hard evidence that contradicts any of these carefully studied fields then understand that you are just blowing digital gas into the air without any real substance or meaning.

    48. Re:More Info Please... by guruevi · · Score: 1

      It's really:

      Observation -> Hypothesis -> Predictions -> Test -> Observation -> Scientific Theory (-> Scientific Fact).

      Most things in science are Theories - they are the best possible explanation for what we have observed in a verifiable test. Scientific facts are either necessarily vague or very dependent on space and time. There is also the Mathematical Proof in exact sciences.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    49. Re:More Info Please... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you test the hypothosis that there is such a thing like this "rodent" creature from a few hundred million years ago existed.

      What?

      Do you mean 'How do you test the hypothesis that there is such a thing like this "rodent" creature'

      or

      do you mean 'How do you test the hypothesis that this "rodent" creature from a few hundred million years ago existed.'

      Dumb creationist fucktard.

    50. Re:More Info Please... by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      Nice post :)

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
  3. So there were some truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    in this.

  4. Naming rights. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like to call this ancestor ... "Bob".

  5. i feel a disney movie by decora · · Score: 5, Funny

    The rough group of placentals from the wrong side of the tracks has a young placental who falls in love with a nice placental from the meadow.. but their parents disapprove...

    1. Re:i feel a disney movie by Common+Joe · · Score: 1

      I heard there are lightsabers involved. It'll probably be a hit.

  6. Typical Redneck Response by tdp252 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Damn them whacky scientists. Me and my girl didn't come out some squirrel's butthole !

    1. Re:Typical Redneck Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't make me horny

    2. Re:Typical Redneck Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You won't like me when I'm horny.

    3. Re:Typical Redneck Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you a cute, red, fluffy squirrel?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHVfMRAcTNk

  7. To no one's surprise... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 0

    ...it turned out to be Betty White.

  8. Don't shank the business model by smittyoneeach · · Score: 0

    Public money has been borrowed from future generations to give to researchers to generate conclusions.

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  9. Re:No intermediate steps to prove! by Aardpig · · Score: 5, Informative

    Within the past 200,000 years of human history, we're aware that Homo Sapiens Sapiens existed alongside other members of the Homo genus, including Homo Neanderthalis and Homo Floresiensis.

    --
    Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
  10. Re:No intermediate steps to prove! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rapid speciation occurs when niches are vacated via rapid environmental change and mass extinction. Without an existing species adapted to a given niche, odd mutations and within-species variation allows individuals of other species to adapt to the new niche (without being out-competed by existing well-adapted species). Look up sources on adaptive radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_radiation) as well as island biogeography and evolution if you are interested in learning more about the underlying mechanisms.

  11. Their names are called, they raise a paw. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The fox, the ox, giraffe and shrew, echidna, caribou.

  12. video from discovery here by miknix · · Score: 2

    There is this video from discovery channel which shows the hypothetical furry creature as one of evolutionary steps to mankind, I personally find it interesting:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwxCnV2PL2k

  13. What about ornithorhynchus? by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    The Ornithorhynchus is a mamall but lay eggs. How does it relates?

    1. Re:What about ornithorhynchus? by Myopic · · Score: 1

      If it lays eggs then it's not a placental mammal (is that right? I think that's right). That would make it a more distant ancestor to this creature, a placental mammal.

    2. Re:What about ornithorhynchus? by manu0601 · · Score: 2

      If it lays eggs then it's not a placental mammal (is that right? I think that's right).

      It is difficult to be sure about anything for this odd creature. It has venom (for males only), electric field sensitivity, 5 pair of sexual chromosomes... If nature proceeds from an intelligent design, then the creating intelligence was probably intoxicated the day it created ornithorhynchus

    3. Re:What about ornithorhynchus? by ichthus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, you could have just said "platypus." You didn't have to get all pretentious and shit.

      --
      sig: sauer
    4. Re:What about ornithorhynchus? by OakDragon · · Score: 2

      It is difficult to be sure about anything for this odd creature. It has venom (for males only)...

      Of course it has venom, it's from Australia.

      Am I right, people!?

    5. Re:What about ornithorhynchus? by manu0601 · · Score: 2

      I was not sure about the common name. In my native language, which happens to be french, the common name is Ornithorynque. Now you can troll french speakers for being natively pretentious :-)

    6. Re:What about ornithorhynchus? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Pretentious? Are you referring to moi?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  14. Placentals??? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

    Placentals are so mainstream when there exist monotremes.

  15. So we're all descended from squirrels?? by daw1234 · · Score: 1

    I hate them, with their long tails and their stupid twitchy noses.

    1. Re:So we're all descended from squirrels?? by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      I don't have a clue why you find this so difficult to imagine.. you've spent so much of your life in pursuit of a nut, and if you're merely average, probably without the long tail.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    2. Re:So we're all descended from squirrels?? by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      As they say, squirrels are rats with a better PR department.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
  16. uh..."revealed"? by Theolojin · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "The hypothetical creature, not found in the fossil record but inferred from it..." I know this is /., but c'mon.

    --
    Life is short; think quickly.
    1. Re:uh..."revealed"? by Myopic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is what we mean when we say that science makes predictions. Remember tiktaalik? Based on the rest of the fossil record and based on geology, scientists predicted that a certain fossil of a certain creature would be found in a certain kind of rock at a certain depth. It took them several years of digging but they found that fossil at that depth in that rock. Science made a specific prediction and it came true.

      Likewise, based on the rest of the fossil record we believe this creature must have existed. We might be able to predict where we would find fossils for it.

    2. Re:uh..."revealed"? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Likewise, based on the rest of the fossil record we believe this creature must have existed. We might be able to predict where we would find fossils for it.

      None of which justifies the use of the word "revealed". The word you want is "predicted". This is also the word Slashdot should have wanted, but they went for sensationalism instead.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:uh..."revealed"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...scientists predicted that a certain fossil of a certain creature would be found in a certain kind of rock at a certain depth.

      I predict that TODAY a certain /. reader in the city of Chicago will get pulled over by a certain police officer and issued a ticket for going through a stop sign.

      Is that Science ... or am I a prophet?

    4. Re:uh..."revealed"? by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Oh, is that your complaint? That this new information provided to people doesn't meet your definition of "reveal"? What does it mean to you to "reveal" something? Here's what my dictionary says:

      make (previously unknown or secret information) known to others

      That's pretty much dead center what this study does: it makes previously unknown information known to others. What do you think the word means?

    5. Re:uh..."revealed"? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much dead center what this study does: it makes previously unknown information known to others

      Well, not really. It makes previously unspeculated speculation available to others.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:uh..."revealed"? by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      I predict that TODAY a certain /. reader in the city of Chicago will get pulled over by a certain police officer and issued a ticket for going through a stop sign.

      Is that Science ... or am I a prophet?

      I believe the word you are looking for is charlatan.

    7. Re:uh..."revealed"? by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      "The hypothetical creature, not found in the fossil record but inferred from it..." I know this is /., but c'mon.

      Perhaps if you actually read the study. They examined, among many other things, the size and shape of all mammals as changed over time. By examining the emergence of genes, traits and other patterns and their geographical distribution allowed them to build a new family tree of placental mammals. They then just followed all the clues back up the tree of species until they found all the common traits converging on a single creature. It was previously believed to be a type of vole. The article is more about how this cooperative software they used helped them work together and narrow it down further than previously before, close enough to give an artists impression and some educated guesses about how it behaved. It's just one study and the point of publishing and peer reviewing them is that they are then able to be either confirmed or debunked. That's how science works. If you believe there are grave errors in their methods or the paper, perhaps you should publish your own paper pointing out their errors and how it could be fixed or improved.

  17. Re:Ridiculous weight range, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    log10(6 / 245) = 1.6 orders of magnitude in their range for the weight of this animal. They might as well have said "it fits in a breadbox."

  18. Some brains did not evolve that much by c0lo · · Score: 1

    had a complex brain with a large lobe for interpreting smells and a corpus callosum, the bundle of ... etc

    Somehow my brain kept interpreting this akin to the concerto for smells and a corpus callosum, interpreted by the brain rather than a large lobe, to interpret the smells, and a corpus callosum; the later is the bundle of... I reckon its something to do with commas and the mixed nature of details: purpose (for smell) with details of structure (the bundle etc).

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  19. Re:No intermediate steps to prove! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    and others would have us believe always existed alongside Homo sexuals as well.

  20. Re:No intermediate steps to prove! by phluid61 · · Score: 1

    Consider a hypothetical "evolutionary space", which has room for a certain number of instances of traits. For example, an ecosystem might be able to support 5k big awesome carnivores, or 20k small lame ones, or some ratio of the two. Now imagine such a space as it stood right near the end of the dinosaurs. When the dinosaurs were around, the "space" was full, the only evolutionary "improvements" that could take place were ones that were super effective. Then poof! dinos are gone; a lot more space is available. There is an explosion in evolution. Think of it this way: if there are suddenly no highly evolved and effective dinosaurs around, there are fewer competitors for resources, so evolutionary traits that might otherwise have been less effective (and bred out of the gene pool) are suddenly not so bad; so they're allowed to hang around. And those traits can lead to other wacky traits, and the diversity grows exponentially, until it's your own children who are consuming the resources/out-evolving their siblings/filling the space.

  21. Not Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speculation is not science. We are seeing more and more of this style of pseudo-science in the media lately.

  22. Premature... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember a short time ago, when biologists were *shocked* to discover how drastically divergent chimpanzee and human Y chromosomes are?
    Guys, we can't even properly infer the genetics of species that *still exist*. "Premature" barely even begins to cover this.

  23. JJ Abrams To Direct "Placenta Matriarch" by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1, Funny

    1. Scientists describe new evolutionary theory to assembled dignitaries from across the universe
      2. Leading Anti-Evolutionist looks really pissed.
      3. Cut to scene of Anti-Evolutionist ships massing over a lush, green planet
      4. Lens flare
      5. Anti-Evolutionist soldiers shoot all sorts of ray gun zappers at the scientists below, shouting "Die, wasters of money!"
      6. Lens flare
      7. After wicked battle, scientists are rescued by Yoda-trained hero.
      8. Lens flare
      9. Leader of Anti-Evolutionist armies wails in frustration, shouting "That is NOT evidence!!!"
    10. Lens flare
    11. Anti-Evolutionist armies plot massive attack from Death Stars.
    12. Lens fare.
    13. Great place to end Part One so that everyone needs to see Part Two in a few years.

    --
    I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
  24. "not found in the fossil record but inferred from" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL.

    "not found in the fossil record but inferred from it"

    Whatever. Maybe the Creationists were right!

  25. Scrat did it again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scrat: the unify-er of all, continet rifting, evolution of species, dinasour extinction, even Mount Rushmore

  26. that evolved shortly after the dinosaurs disappear by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    Uh.... I though the placental lineages extended well within the Cretaceous (????).

  27. Re:Yesterday it was a monkey, Today a rat. Tomorro by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Pony. We are all descended from Ponies.

  28. Heh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...not found, but inferred" - sounds like the perfect evolutionist result. Who needs proof!

  29. Today's education system by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    Today's education system even impacts /. when a "hypothetical" creature "not found" in the fossil record, but "inferred" by it, is now put forth as a revelation as to the origin of all mamals, including humans.

    By not being found in the fossil record, we have no concrete evidence. By being inferred, we have reasoned it's existence. That makes the use of the term "revealed" quite correct, as that is exactly the same process early man used to determine their various deities.

    I don't doubt the scientific method in proposing a hypothesis or theory. But the reporting of it in this way sure is weak and only strengthens the view that science is anything but accurate (evolution is just a theory and debatable, for instance). Even the recent article on Richard III where DNA "proved" it was him was wrong, it did no such thing. It confirmed it, based on the other evidence, but by itself did not prove it.

    Scientific reporting needs to be accurate and able to stand being scrutinized. That might mean that there are people who will not understand what is being reported. That is a shame. On the otherhand, it is better than them thinking they understand what is being reported when the report is not accurate. That does nobody any good.

    Here's a thought: Instead of dumbing down scientific reporting (and intellectual thought) so the average person can understand it (even if that misinforms them as to what is being communicated), how about educating people, so they can actually understand it in the first place?

  30. It still relate by aepervius · · Score: 1

    from the wiki on platypus :
    "The platypus and other monotremes were very poorly understood, and some of the 19th century myths that grew up around themâ"for example, that the monotremes were "inferior" or quasireptilianâ"still endure.[60] In 1947, William King Gregory theorised that placental mammals and marsupials may have diverged earlier, and a subsequent branching divided the monotremes and marsupials, but later research and fossil discoveries have suggested this is incorrect.[60][61] In fact, modern monotremes are the survivors of an early branching of the mammal tree, and a later branching is thought to have led to the marsupial and placental groups.[60][62] Molecular clock and fossil dating suggest platypuses split from echidnas around 19â"48 million years ago"

    Seeing that the article is speaking of older time, the split happenned after that common ancestor.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  31. Putting Reputation at Risk by SoothingMist · · Score: 1

    SlashDot puts its reputation at risk when it claims "fact revealed" when only "one study suggests".

    1. Re:Putting Reputation at Risk by cusco · · Score: 1

      its reputation at risk

      Hee, hee, what reputation? As the originator of the goatse troll, or what?

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  32. Garden fo Eden by AlleyTrotte · · Score: 1

    Actually I have inferred that the Garden of Eden was in a coal mine in my back yard here in Coal Township, PA

  33. Com'n now... by WillyWanker · · Score: 1

    We all know the Earth is only 6000 years old and that humans were created by God in his image. At least that's what Fox News and the 700 Club tell me. Why should I believe science when I have Fox News to tell me the truth?

    1. Re:Com'n now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good one wanker.

  34. evolutionary fantasies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typical God-less, evolutionary bullcrap! "...study suggests....hypothetical creature....not found in fossil record...." blah blah blah. Anything but the simplest explanation for you narrow-minded, delusional, brain-washed atheists! That a highly intelligent and powerful being had a hand in creation! It takes more faith to believe the myth of evolution than this humble Christian can muster!

  35. Re:Fake. by cusco · · Score: 1

    Eh. I was well on my way anyway, they needn't have expended the effort.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  36. Re:No intermediate steps to prove! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not like the dinasaurs all died and nothing else changed.

    What you're missing is that evolution happens slowly without drastic environmental change. It's not like all the dinasaurs were sitting in Mexico and the asteroid squished 'em, but that the resulting fires and ejecta and the "nuclear winter" it caused killed a large percentage of the flora. The big animals all starved, the little animals were merely hungry. By the time the plants started comong back good, the big animals were all dead.

    Plus, the little winged dinasaurs also survived. We call them "birds".

  37. Re:No intermediate steps to prove! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Within the past 200,000 years of human history, we're aware that Homo Sapiens Sapiens existed alongside other members of the Homo genus, including Homo Neanderthalis and Homo Floresiensis.

    Where do homo sexuals fit in?